Chapter 426 "A Ship Waiting for Wind" Discussion

[unchipu]

@KatanaJon1.1:

Yubashiri was one of the 50 Ryou-Wazamono, the lowest class.

Perhaps Zoro will come across a sword from one of the higher classes in the coming chapters.

The way I thought it went was: Wadoichimonji - oowazamono; Sandai Kitetsu - ryouwazamono; Yubashiri - wazamono.

Ryouwazamono isn't the "lowest class" of katana at all by any means. It's just the lowest of the great katana, which are counted. It's like having an A- compared to an A or A+.
I believe that Yubashiri was actually in a class lower, as a wazamono, but was still a good sword. I really liked this sword, since the katana store owner bestowed the sword upon Zoro, hoping Zoro would take it to great heights as a swordsman.

As for the new katana, it would be awesome for Zoro to get a saijou-oowazamono, but it could seem a little weird with it being of "higher" rank than his main katana, the Wado. It'll be fun to see if he runs into Tashigi again though, when he's looking for the new sword.

[Jun]

@unchipu:

The way I thought it went was: Wadoichimonji - oowazamono; Sandai Kitetsu - ryouwazamono; Yubashiri - wazamono.

Ryouwazamono isn't the "lowest class" of katana at all by any means. It's just the lowest of the great katana, which are counted. It's like having an A- compared to an A or A+.
I believe that Yubashiri was actually in a class lower, as a wazamono, but was still a good sword. I really liked this sword, since the katana store owner bestowed the sword upon Zoro, hoping Zoro would take it to great heights as a swordsman.

As for the new katana, it would be awesome for Zoro to get a saijou-oowazamono, but it could seem a little weird with it being of "higher" rank than his main katana, the Wado. It'll be fun to see if he runs into Tashigi again though, when he's looking for the new sword.

…better... a seastone Katana!! Supaaaaa!

[gaara d. lucci]

I don't believe Zoro would like a seastone katana. He would probably wanna defeat DF swordsman without something as cheap as a seastone weapon. I believe Zoro will learn to cut diamond and then move on to cut logias and the elements (fire, lighing, water etc.).

[Polygon]

@gaara:

I don't believe Zoro would like a seastone katana. He would probably wanna defeat DF swordsman without something as cheap as a seastone weapon. I believe Zoro will learn to cut diamond and then move on to cut logias and the elements (fire, lighing, water etc.).

Agreed. Seastone Katana = big no no.

[Neomaster121]

a seastone sword would show Zoro's increase in power since all devil fruits users would be weakened before hand. The best thing about the normal (well without devil fruits) crew members eg sanji and Zoro they can beat devil fruit users with their own powers. It wouldn't show there power if they used seastones to fight.

[Malintex_Terek]

@Octogon:

**You're not convincing me, at all.

First of we have seen the full capabilities of both Enel and Crocodile. We know the limits to their strengh, at least in a fight against Luffy. And therefore it only makes sense that we would see more thing from both of those two then we would from Smoker. who is most obviously one of those characters whom we won't find out all about until the end of the manga.**

By his own admission, Smoker said he couldn't beat Crocodile. Since we know he can "beat" Luffy, he obviously has an advantage over Luffy that he lacks against Crocodile.

Conventional wisdom (which I call logic) tells me there's no possible elemental weaknesses between smoke and sand, so it's best to assume Smoker believed Croc would kill him in battle.

@Octogon:

Also, Luffy is inferior to Smoker in terms of combat. He doesn't need to use his uber moves on Luffy just yet.

Are we reading the same manga? Typically, the only reason Luffy can't beat a Logia is because he can't hit that Logia. There's no reason in the slightest to suggest that, provided Luffy finds a way to hurt Smoker, he would lose to him.

@Octogon:

So according to you croc has shown 10 abilities, Enel 6 and Smoker 3. That's pretty good considering we havn't seen him go at even half of his abilities.

Those are only DF abilities. Additionally,

Croc:

1. Strategic genius.
2. Physical toughness.
3. Physical agility.
4. Physical strength.
5. Poison hook.

Ener:

1. Mantra.
2. Quarterstaff.

Smoker:

1. Something (Sword-Club).

…

Ener can get away with having fewer powers than Croc because his raw potential is enormus. There's no way anyone can argue Smoker, whose fruit is simmilar in capacity to Crocodile's, should have so few combatative abilities.

As I said earlier, Smoker's forte appears to be capturing people. He can't fight worth a darn.

@Octogon:

Now explain to me how you know Smoker's has less devolped DF abilities compared to those two? Going by your logic, all Ao-Kiji can do is freeze stuff.

Aokiji has incredible raw power, just like Ener. He also has genuis, physical toughness, strength and agility like Crocodile. Although Aokiji hasn't shown much mastery of his fruit's powers, he's clearly a more powerful opponent (in general) than either Croc or Ener.

[KatanaJon1.1]

Ryouwazamono isn't the "lowest class" of katana at all by any means. It's just the lowest of the great katana, which are counted.

That's what I was trying to say. Sorry if I confused you.

[dav1dk1m]

This post is deleted!

[Paulie]

@Aldrich:

Yes, it has, because if he wasn't telling the higher ups to eat shit every now and then he'd have achieved higher rank, simply based on his strenght. There's a clear correlation between rank and strenght here.

I was SUPPORTING your argument. Read it more carefully next time.

[KatanaJon1.1]

@dav1dk1m:

so anyone know if this:
[qimg]http://img307.imageshack.us/img307/7997/finalfightfk4.png[/qimg]
was fake or not?

if it is real, when's this final battle going to be released??

That's next week, the 11th.

[Aldrich]

@Paulie:

I was SUPPORTING your argument. Read it more carefully next time.

Ok. My bad then.

[Polygon]

@Malintex_Terek:

By his own admission, Smoker said he couldn't beat Crocodile. Since we know he can "beat" Luffy, he obviously has an advantage over Luffy that he lacks against Crocodile.

He never said that. at least I don't remember. Can you provide a scan or chapter?

Conventional wisdom (which I call logic) tells me there's no possible elemental weaknesses between smoke and sand, so it's best to assume Smoker believed Croc would kill him in battle.

Smoker does have the ability to posses liquids you know…

Are we reading the same manga? Typically, the only reason Luffy can't beat a Logia is because he can't hit that Logia. There's no reason in the slightest to suggest that, provided Luffy finds a way to hurt Smoker, he would lose to him.

Did you not see Smoker take Luffy's attack without going logia? Also notice how every logia (even Enel) had a good level of physical fitness. I don't see why Smoker would be any exeption.

Those are only DF abilities. Additionally,

Croc:

1. Strategic genius.
2. Physical toughness.
3. Physical agility.
4. Physical strength.
5. Poison hook.

Ener:

1. Mantra.
2. Quarterstaff.

Smoker:

1. Something (Sword-Club).

You're hopeless. We havn't seen Smoker go anywhere near his lmit. And thus we don't know how many other skills he may have. Both DF related and not this is a F-A-C-T.

…

Ener can get away with having fewer powers than Croc because his raw potential is enormus. There's no way anyone can argue Smoker, whose fruit is simmilar in capacity to Crocodile's, should have so few combatative abilities.

Where did you aqquire your time machine? I wouldn't have read the OP manga from the future. It could cause real problems you know.

As I said earlier, Smoker's forte appears to be capturing people. He can't fight worth a darn.

You simply must tell me where ou aqquired your time-machine.

Aokiji has incredible raw power, just like Ener. He also has genuis, physical toughness, strength and agility like Crocodile. Although Aokiji hasn't shown much mastery of his fruit's powers, he's clearly a more powerful opponent (in general) than either Croc or Ener.

**ROFL

Honestly you just admitted I am right. All you did was use Ao-Kiji instead of smoker. And guess what Ao-Kiji has shown less fighting abilities than Smoker.

you are hopeless.**

[Elric]

@Malintex_Terek:

something

A large jutte tipped with Seastone.

[Gizmo]

@Quexinos:

okay I think I got all the bets here:

Quexinos: Jet/Giant Cannon
Smurfx: Several Gear 3rd punches
4ghost: Giant Bazooka with Robo Ally
OneMoment: GG Cannon or Gear 3rd move
UPRC: Jet Gattling/Storm
kljs: gear 4th: Jet Giant Hurricane
Voodzik: Something new =D
786110: Fighting will continue. (well…. i guess that's a pretty safe prediction XD)

did i miss anyone?

I got one to get in on this bet.
Robo ally then Giant Bell.

[myogatheflea]

@Elric:

A large jutte tipped with Seastone.

http://www8.ocn.ne.jp/~reishiki/diary/jitte.jpg

As cool as that looks, I don't think Zoro would weild such a thing.

[Malintex_Terek]

@Octogon:

He never said that. at least I don't remember. Can you provide a scan or chapter?

Go look at the chapter where Tashigi was crying before Smoker got his promotion. I can't remember any numbers right now.

@Octogon:

Smoker does have the ability to posses liquids you know…

Say what? He can control smoke from external sources but I'm not sure where you got that from.

@Octogon:

Did you not see Smoker take Luffy's attack without going logia? Also notice how every logia (even Enel) had a good level of physical fitness. I don't see why Smoker would be any exeption.

Smoker can harden his smoke, so he's still "going Logia" even if a Luffy attack doesn't pass through. Also, Ener looked physically strong but he wasn't lugging around seventy pound golden hooks and flinging them around like candle-sticks, nor was he taking immediate repeated beatings like Croc was.

Ace and Aokiji were established to be pretty physically oriented people by their backgrounds; Croc lacked that distinction but proved himself to be. Ener just showed that he was pretty much a wuss without his DF power.

@Octogon:

You're hopeless. We havn't seen Smoker go anywhere near his lmit. And thus we don't know how many other skills he may have. Both DF related and not this is a F-A-C-T.

This reply is quite dichotomous. You correctly state that we do not know all the skills of Smoker, but at the same time, assert he "[hasn't] go[ne] anywhere near his l_mit". We can't determine if he has or not, but as of right now, he's been depicted as the weakest Logia by a longshot.

@Octogon:

Where did you aqquire your time machine? I wouldn't have read the OP manga from the future. It could cause real problems you know.

I do not need a time machine if I can simply flip back to the chapters featuring Smoker; thus far, he's not tried to fight opponents and instead has merely focused on capturing them. Whether or not this is his own preference, adherence to Marine objectives, or inability to butt heads with the big boys, I can't be certain.

@Octogon:

**ROFL

Honestly you just admitted I am right. All you did was use Ao-Kiji instead of smoker. And guess what Ao-Kiji has shown less fighting abilities than Smoker.

you are hopeless.**

Aokiji actually beat Luffy; he's also one of the strongest living Marines with (potentially) the most powerful Devil Fruit in the series. Ener had a limit to his electrical output without Maxim; Aokiji could likely produce icestorms and control the circulation of heat (look at his bike).

There isn't a snowball's chance in heck that Smoker can compare to that kind of power if he's not even on the same level as Crocodile._

[raj]

@KatanaJon1.1:

That's next week, the 11th.

Isn't this chapter leaked from the issue that'll be released on the 11th.

[KatanaJon1.1]

@786110:

Isn't this chapter leaked from the issue that'll be released on the 11th.

I completely forgot about that. We get the chapters even earlier that Japan, am I correct?

[Aldrich]

@myogatheflea:

As cool as that looks, I don't think Zoro would weild such a thing.

Of course he wouldn't as it's a weapon whose purpose is to break swords.

[myogatheflea]

@Aldrich:

Of course he wouldn't as it's a weapon whose purpose is to break swords.

Really? Didn't know that, thanks for the info. What kind of sword do you think he'll go for though to replace Yubashira? Same type as he already uses or some newtype?

[onemoment]

Where did Smoker say that he was weaker then Croc? Cause I think I remember the Tashigi seen and he said that he didn't beat him, not that he couldn't beat him. In fact, if not for that Seastone cage Smoker seemed to want to fight him.

As for physical capabilites, Smoker did get knocked through 3 stone walls and only shook it off–no blood or anything. Where as Aokiji merely took a gomu gomu no pistol. There physical strength can't really be determined, but we know that they're very strong.

And of course Smoker hasn't shown his abilites yet, he's going to fight later in the manga. And as such, he can't use too many abilities yet. So far, he's only captured enemies so far cause it worked for him so well, if you haven't noticed. Smoker has the power to pretty much disable anyone so far.

Oh yeah, and Smoker right now is the only Logia user with no obvious weakness.

In conclusion, let's rank the Logias. I'm going to assume that Croc is weaker then Smoker, but feel free to disagree.

1. Aokiji.
2. Smoker = Ace (alabasta)
3. Enel
4. Croc

Now, 3. and 4. can be interchangeable, cause I know the war a "Enel vs. Croc would cause." I'm just assuming that the undefeated Logia users are stronger then the defeated logia users.

[Elric]

@myogatheflea:

As cool as that looks, I don't think Zoro would weild such a thing.

Nooo, terek was refering to smokers seastone tipped jitte as "something", that's why i posted that thing.

@Malintex_Terek:

Smoker:
1. Something (Sword-Club).

It was used by police officers to arrest armed (swords) troublemakers without harming them seriously.

[dav1dk1m]

This post is deleted!

[Neomaster121]

well he didn't say he was weaker but not strong enough it was chapter 212 -216 somewhere around there

[kabrumbs]

@Neomaster121:

well he didn't say he was weaker but not strong enough it was chapter 212 -216 somewhere around there

how not strong enough is different from weaker?

[Mr. All Sunday]

I still say Smoker might've been able to win, with Croc's weakness exposed Smoker would have an excellent chance of winning. It could go either way really. In fact, I believe that (excluding Aokiji) all of the logia user could fight to draws.

All this Smoker talk gets me thinking about another interesting Marine character, Hina, I really liked her devil fruit power; I hope she shows up with Smoker when he reappears. That would be awesome, for some reason I think she'd make a good opponent for Robin.

[G35TwinTurbo]

This post is deleted!

[Neomaster121]

@kabrumbs:

how not strong enough is different from weaker?

just saying wat he said

[myogatheflea]

@Elric:

Nooo, terek was refering to smokers seastone tipped jitte as "something", that's why i posted that thing.

Ohhhhhh gotchya. Duh.

[UNKNOWNFILE]

Three words:

AND STAY DOWN

[ThanatosAngel]

@onemoment:

Now, 3. and 4. can be interchangeable, cause I know the war a "Enel vs. Croc would cause." I'm just assuming that the undefeated Logia users are stronger then the defeated logia users.

I would think Croc is stronger than Eneru since he's sand, and sand would have the same effects as rubber. In that case, he'd tear Eneru a new one.

[unchipu]

@dav1dk1m:

hmm . then i guess sept 11th was a false rumor??

i know the pic says 41st issue, and the one we just got (wth 426th chapter) is 40th. hmmmmmmmmm…....

Chapter 426 is from the 2006-41 issue. That thing only said the fight is heading towards the conclusion. I guess they must have meant it's going to be over soon, but not in 426… I assume the JUMP editors knew the fight wasn't going to be concluded.

[dav1dk1m]

This post is deleted!

[Elric]

@dav1dk1m:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :sad:

So luffy isn't out for good, damned^^

[CodedTech]

@onemoment:

2. Smoker = Ace (alabasta)

Well wouldn't it be Ace >>> Smoker?

Judging from how we saw them interracted and what not (such as Smoker passing off a pirate of his infamy to chase Luffy instead, or Ace simply knocking out his attacks when he tried to get Luffy, or Ace making him stuck behind a fire wall), then there's the Ace blantantly stating Smoker doesn't stand a chance against him. It seems their levels are far apart, and that Smoker is by far inferior.

[Polygon]

@CodedTech:

Well wouldn't it be Ace >>> Smoker?

Judging from how we saw them interracted and what not (such as Smoker passing off a pirate of his infamy to chase Luffy instead, or Ace simply knocking out his attacks when he tried to get Luffy, or Ace making him stuck behind a fire wall), then there's the Ace blantantly stating Smoker doesn't stand a chance against him. It seems their levels are far apart, and that Smoker is by far inferior.

That 'fight' proved very, very little.

[onemoment]

@CodedTech:

Well wouldn't it be Ace >>> Smoker?

Judging from how we saw them interracted and what not (such as Smoker passing off a pirate of his infamy to chase Luffy instead, or Ace simply knocking out his attacks when he tried to get Luffy, or Ace making him stuck behind a fire wall), then there's the Ace blantantly stating Smoker doesn't stand a chance against him. It seems their levels are far apart, and that Smoker is by far inferior.

Well, their battle seems to by a tie. As they said, "a battle between smoke and fire is useless." Despite what science would say, it seems like there powers cancel each other out.

And if I remember right, Smoker shoved Ace's face into the ground and chased after Luffy. I don't think that suggests that he's afraid of Ace, but rather that for some reason he wants to catch Luffy even more.

[Elric]

@CodedTech:

Well wouldn't it be Ace >>> Smoker?

Last time i asked i got told that ace meant their DF powers were even.
Because of that some guys in the ace vs smoker thread betted on smoker
since he's the one with the seastone.

The fact that his df powers aren't that destructive may actually be to his advantage since it's quite possible that he can attack with the jitte from a distance just like he could shoot his fist.

It must be quite hard to evade such a flying weapon, and once it connects the fight's over.

[Le Lawliet]

Stephen's script on Smoker on the matter:

Smoker: WE stopped Crocodile…?!
...one of my soldiers is crying because she COULDN'T do that…

[Elric]

@onemoment:

…, but rather that for some reason he wants to catch Luffy even more.

Luffy was the first pirate that was able to escape smoker in logue town.

[immelmann]

i put this lil blurb together with some info about zoros swords. it explains the rank system and how strong the sword that was destroyed is.
i think my scale is wrong but i can't confirm it. is wazamono the highest or is saijou-oo-wazamono?

"Yubashiri (Snow Run), Zoro's third sword, is an extremely light but strong sword, and is one of the world's 50 Ryo-Wazamono."

From Volume 13 SBS, Taken from stephens trans.

"<- This is "Wadou-Ichimonji", which Zoro carries as a memento of Kuina. For this katana, the "level" is "Oo-Wazamono", the "make"
is "White-Painted Scabbard Long Sword" (This is a type of outward appearance for swords. It means the blade is painted white.), and the "blade" is a "straight edge".@ For swords, the levels go

[strongest]Saijou-Oo-Wazamono, Oo-Wazamono, Ryo-Wazamono, Wazamono [weaker]

and then normal swords.

Wazamonos are excellent blades. When they say "12 Saijou-Ou-Wazamono", it means there (appears to be) only 12 blades in the world that are stronger.
That's what that means."

So the Destroyed sword Yubashiri was the 50th strongest of the Ryo-Wazamono, the 3rd strongest rank.

So this all means

21 Oo Wazamono - Wado Ichimonji, (The One Road of Harmony) Zoro's Strongest sword is held in his mouth.

Wazamono(Sharp Sword) - Sandai Kitetsu, (Third Generation Demon-Splitter) the previous gens. of the swords (shodai and nidai) were saijou-Oo-wazamono and Oo-wazamono respectivly. though the sandai kitetsu is said to be able to cut anything and also contains a curse. Does the use of the sword and the evolution of it's and its users spirit increase the rank?

50 Ryo Wazamono - Yubashiri, (Snow Run) The broken sword, graded as a stronger and sharper sword on the scale presented, but was quickly destroyed.

Zoro has no swords of the excellent quality, i think he will obtain one somehow.

[CodedTech]

@onemoment:

Well, their battle seems to by a tie. As they said, "a battle between smoke and fire is useless." Despite what science would say, it seems like there powers cancel each other out.

And if I remember right, Smoker shoved Ace's face into the ground and chased after Luffy. I don't think that suggests that he's afraid of Ace, but rather that for some reason he wants to catch Luffy even more.

The anime may have said something like that, and the anime definitely added stuff to their fight, but both the manga scanslation and stephen's text translation Ace said "You may be smoke, but I'm fire, your powers don't stand a chance against mine." Which Smoker didn't deny, and as I pointed out, all those other incidents implied that. The only other thing we saw afterwards was that Smoker and the rest of the Marines were stuck behind a flaming net Ace had put up.

[Quexinos]

Okay I got everyone I believe

Quexinos: Jet/Giant Cannon
Smurfx: Several Gear 3rd punches
4ghost: Giant Bazooka with Robo Ally
OneMoment: GG Cannon or Gear 3rd move
UPRC: Jet Gattling/Storm
kljs: gear 4th: Jet Giant Hurricane
Voodzik: Something new =D
warp: Jet Storm then new move
Jun: … the afro >.>
786110: Fighting will continue. (well.... i guess that's a pretty safe prediction XD)
ultimateclima: Robo Ally (to imobolize) then giant bell

I meant for Luffy to use the ally robo on Lucci in order to keep Lucci from avoiding his gear 3 attack. Also kind of like how Luffy used it to hold Lucci's leg and immobilize him in ch421 as Luffy attempted gomu gomu no rifle.

that's not really robo ally then it's just imoblizing him, and a good idea. I see what you mean now ^_^

Also … er.. WHY do we get the chapters earlier than Japan? O_o

[Malintex_Terek]

@onemoment:

In fact, if not for that Seastone cage Smoker seemed to want to fight him.

Which is why after Zoro saved him, Smoker ran away with his tail between his legs and commandeered one Baroque Works ship.

I'm sure he was so eager to kick Croc's arse when he had a perfect opportunity to do so.

@onemoment:

As for physical capabilites, Smoker did get knocked through 3 stone walls and only shook it off–no blood or anything. Where as Aokiji merely took a gomu gomu no pistol. There physical strength can't really be determined, but we know that they're very strong.

In a shounen manga, getting blasted through walls is nothing. Bon Clay was kicked through, what, six by Sanji? Does this mean Bon Clay is tougher than Smoker, especially after Bon Clay was getting the snot kicked out of him?

@onemoment:

And of course Smoker hasn't shown his abilites yet, he's going to fight later in the manga. And as such, he can't use too many abilities yet. So far, he's only captured enemies so far cause it worked for him so well, if you haven't noticed. Smoker has the power to pretty much disable anyone so far.

I don't think we'll be seeing Smoker "revealing his abilities", since the Straw Hats are pretty focused on running the fudge away from him. Smoker seems like the kind of well-meaning guy who just happens to be at the right place at the right time to get the credit for Luffy's deeds, even if he dosen't want/deserve them. He's also likely the man who will capture Luffy after he becomes Pirate King.

@onemoment:

Oh yeah, and Smoker right now is the only Logia user with no obvious weakness.

Ace is his foil. Smoker cannot defeat him.

[FireFistAce 0]

My bet is on him making both arms go into Gear 3 mode, then slamming them together as hard as he can, crippling Lucci and probably destroying ships in the process.

The move? Gomu Gomu no Giant Boom.

Btw, Enel would totally own Crocodile. Why? What happens to sand when it's super heated and compressed? Answer: It becomes Glass.

Croc would turn to glass and Enel would just shatter him.

And Bon Kurei is strong in his own right. He was kicking Sanji so hard that the windows were shattering.

Bon Kurei is an accomplished fighter. He's just a goof-off. That's why Sanji beat him.

And you wanna know why Smoker didn't attack Crocodile? He had jack shit for proof.

Think about it, Malinex. If you're part of a massive armed force, and you just waltz into some country and start beating the holy loving shit out of their beloved "hero", do you think the people are gonna believe that he's a major criminal without proof? No, they're gonna retaliate. Smoker's not stupid by any means. He knows what diplomatic immunity is.

Luffy and the Strawhats are exempt from this rule because they're pirates and Vigilantes. Even though Smoker often takes matters into his own hands, he knows how stupid it would be to cause an international affair. There was already a civil war about to occur. Would you have wanted him to add a revolt against the WG to that?

[onemoment]

@Malintex_Terek:

Which is why after Zoro saved him, Smoker ran away with his tail between his legs and commandeered one Baroque Works ship.

I'm sure he was so eager to kick Croc's arse when he had a perfect opportunity to do so.

Perfect opportunity? How would Smoker know where the hell he was? In a desert Croc can be anywhere as anytime.

Edit: Oh, and Fire Fist Ace has a smart point too. ^

In a shounen manga, getting blasted through walls is nothing. Bon Clay was kicked through, what, six by Sanji? Does this mean Bon Clay is tougher than Smoker, especially after Bon Clay was getting the snot kicked out of him?

Well, its almost as impressive as no-selling Luffy's punch. I'm just saying, he's clearly strong, especially since he had no viasable injuries afterwards.

I don't think we'll be seeing Smoker "revealing his abilities", since the Straw Hats are pretty focused on running the fudge away from him. Smoker seems like the kind of well-meaning guy who just happens to be at the right place at the right time to get the credit for Luffy's deeds, even if he dosen't want/deserve them. He's also likely the man who will capture Luffy after he becomes Pirate King.

Uh, maybe. But, if Smoker finds a serious opponent and gets into a fight, he'll unveil new abilites.

Ace is his foil. Smoker cannot defeat him.

Well, niether could Ace. I mean, Ace had such a big advantage then you'd think he'd at least leave Smoker with a little injury.

Why is Smoker weak now? What, cause we haven't seen him for a long time?

[Elric]

@CodedTech:

The anime may have said something like that, and the anime definitely added stuff to their fight, but both the manga scanslation and stephen's text translation Ace said "You may be smoke, but I'm fire, your powers don't stand a chance against mine." .

Hhmm, i asked exactly about that line and got told it was a bad translation.

If smoker and ace fight again in the future and Oda actually wants fire to be superiour over smoke the anime has produced a major plot hole.It would make perfect sense though since smoke is flammable.

edit:

@Masta:

Hell no, the translation was poor. The whole point of that scene was to show Fire and Smoke were equal and they would never be able to beat the other.

[Vixen_Dark]

@Fire Fist:

Bon Kurei is an accomplished fighter. He's just a goof-off. That's why Sanji beat him.

Bon-chan!

Bon Clay is one of the many DF users who could do so much more with his fruit. If he can take any body, then by the same token, he could adopt almost any fighting style that would suit said body. But he only uses his original Okama Kenpo.

Smoker's strengths haven't been fully revealed yet, and, as Terek said, probably won't be for a while. But with Oda showing so much corruption in the WG, I think that characters like Smoker, those who actually take their job seriously, will start to play a larger role.

[unchipu]

@Quexinos:

Also … er.. WHY do we get the chapters earlier than Japan? O_o

I'm not totally sure, but I think this is the way it works.

The official release date is Monday of each week. But, of course the magazines go into print days before, so they can be shipped to the stores. Somehow, people get ahold of these pre-released magazines and put scans on the internet. This is done by people in Japan, so we don't really get the chapters earlier than Japan, just earlier than the general public.

[kljs]

Bon Clay kick is strong, but Sanji also shattered windows with his kick too! or something like that….

Originally posted by Ao Kiji
Luffy got his arse completely and thoroughly handed to him by ME in record time. And yet OP went on and on..

If Luffy does any new Gears in the fight, it better be GEAR FINALE! I really don't want the gear moves to go past three or anything..

You got to understand that battle with Ao Kiji was different….... than his battle with Lucchi.......I believe Luffy knew he couldn't beat Ao Kiji and set up the one on one deal with Ao Kiji, or it was just pure luck.

as for the current battle,
You do remember that while fighting Blueno, Luffy was talking CRAP about getting stronger, and while fighting Luchhi, Luffy was talking more CRAP about how he was going to beat Lucchi ass in order to protect his NAKAMA.....
so, if he lost, then it would be for the first time Luffy was all CRAP. He would be nothing more than a rookie pirate trying to make bold statements like "I want to be the Pirate King" as per Crocodile predicted.
What would Luffy have gain if he lost to Lucchi? Nothing.
Luffy would have LOSE everything.......

I think maybe because you are Supreme Admiral, you only want to wipe out all pirates from the Grand Line....perfectly understandable....

however, I bet my money on Luffy winning.....and with style........