I can't believe we are talking about this Chakra Reincarnartion BS again after…2 years?
Bart Simpson Thread XI: The Movie - The Manga Adaption - The Animation
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I can't believe we are talking about this Chakra Reincarnartion BS again after…2 years?
The cycle of hatred truly does never end.
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I thought he died after sasuke was born? Also, doesn't reincarnation imply that the soul that inhabited his body was never his own, but someone else's to begin with? So if he died and then was brought back to life then what about his soul? if it's technically in sasuke then isn't he then a soulless ragdoll monster whose only drive is nothing more than the desires of the previous inhabitant of his body? He would then have none of his own and all his feelings of hatred or affection or whatever it is he feels toward the first be false? Wouldn't he essentially be a nobody? Isn't he Xehanort at that point?
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I thought he died after sasuke was born? Also, doesn't reincarnation imply that the soul that inhabited his body was never his own, but someone else's to begin with? So if he died and then was brought back to life then what about his soul? if it's technically in sasuke then isn't he then a soulless ragdoll monster whose only drive is nothing more than the desires of the previous inhabitant of his body? He would then have none of his own and all his feelings of hatred or affection or whatever it is he feels toward the first be false? Wouldn't he essentially be a nobody? Isn't he Xehanort at that point?
The Third Great Ninja War occurred over ten years before the start of the series. Sasuke is 12 when the series starts, which just barely fits the timeframe.
As for the stuff about reincarnated souls being able to co-exist or not if previous hosts are resurrected, that's a whole other can of beans that writers can execute in various ways. It's such an abstract that you really shouldn't think too hard about it and compare various series who did similar things. This also gets into the subject of if reincarnations are truly their own individuals or not. Personally, I like to believe they are. And if you want to bring Kingdom Hearts into this, that whole series is about advocating that copies or other incarnations of beings, are truly cultivated into being their own individuals and deserve to live and co-exist with their counterparts. So that series is at least arguing that reincarnations are not "soulless rag doll monsters whose only drive is nothing more than the desires of the previous inhabitant of the body", which are the crux of character journeys like Xion and Roxas who are disparaged for supposedly being born without hearts and being labeled as copies of Sora.
All in all, I think we should just acknowledge that Naruto shouldn't never pulled these reincarnation shenanigans, and that Kingdom Hearts shouldn't have incorporated time travel BS into its already needlessly convoluted storyline. These series do not deserve time and effort put into evaluating flawed concepts from incompetent storytellers who sold out. So please save yourself the pain lol.
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@Count:
All in all, I think we should just acknowledge that Naruto shouldn't never pulled these reincarnation shenanigans, and that Kingdom Hearts shouldn't have incorporated time travel BS into its already needlessly convoluted storyline. These series do not deserve time and effort put into evaluating flawed concepts from incompetent storytellers who sold out.
Sold out? more like pulled-out…...at least where Naruto is concerned.
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Sold out? more like pulled-out…...at least where Naruto is concerned.
I think pulled-out would be a more suitable term for series like Bleach and Toriko that got rushed like all hell.
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It's just completely not thought out by Kishi. If it's the same soul, Madara just shouldn't be able to get resurrected at all because his soul currently was alive in Sasuke.
However, if you see that reincarnation stuff as some kind of fancy on/off switch without any deeper meaning, it actually makes some sense (albeit being stupid, of course). And when you are a reincarnation and get resurrected, you just lose this reincarnation status. Therefore we can have Sasuke (switch: on) and Madara (switch: off) at the same time.
And I cannot remember: Were there actually some meaningful interactions between Madara and Sasuke?
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Kingdom Hearts is a very good game.
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Really interesting video about Naruto's highs and lows, definitely worth a watch:
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I can't wait for the Boruto anime to adapt the movie in an episodic format just like the manga is doing in the same vein as Dragon Ball Super's first two arcs in relation to the Battle of Gods and Resurrection F films.
EDIT: Thank you for the news, Kaizou.
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Eh I'm less than enthusiastic. The manga honestly sucks really, really badly since they've been trying to take the DBS approach. Part of it may be because the art is a further downgrade, but just the fact that they're taking months to tell a story JUST told makes me lose all interest. I barely hung in through DBS, but once it hit it's original content it really took off. It feels like they're REALLY trying to hit the same note with Boruto.
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I was being completely sarcastic. Adapting the movies in manga/anime format is always tedious, off-putting, and plain abysmal lol.
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Live Action Movie? Oh boy, they better get some Top Tier actors.
Justin Bieber as Naruto I guess?
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Live Action Movie? Oh boy, they better get some Top Tier actors.
Justin Bieber as Naruto I guess?
Bielbe it, girl! stupid heart gesture pose
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I cant imagine the amount of shitstorm it will cause if Sasuke is played by a black guy.
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I'm not surprised by the movie announcement or care to worry about it anymore since it was announced a year ago. This is just basically reminding us it still exists. Just like a scab that is hard to stop picking at.
I cant imagine the amount of shitstorm it will cause if Sasuke is played by a black guy.
Okay, let's all be honest here. Every single Naruto fan would watch a movie where Anthony Hopkins plays Orochimaru in a creepy Hannibal Lecter/Westworld style. Hell, I would watch a whole Netflix series just for that alone.
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It's been forever since I've been on this thread and was wondering what's the discussion going on about Nardo's kid. Then the first thing I see is an announcement for a live-action Hollywood movie for Nardo…
In the words of a giant talking egg...
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@The:
In the words of a giant talking egg…
Explicit quote from Masashi Kishimoto at Jump Festa 2017:
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http://mangastream.com/r/boruto/008/3898/1
only 8 minute left to cover from the movie, couldn't they just wrapped it up this month?
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Teach your son how to count Naruto.
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http://mangastream.com/r/boruto/008/3898/1
only 8 minute left to cover from the movie, couldn't they just wrapped it up this month?
They should, with the anime coming up in 5 months, they should just wrap up the movie retelling, or they want to follow the same path as Toei and Toyotaro are doing it in DBS?
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Am I the only one who feels that Naruto should have been hokage before Kakashi? Or at least have that area explained?
Naruto was not only the strongerst character at the end of the show, but his leadership and emotional maturity (at least when it comes to human relations) where also the strongest by the show's end.
At very least, I hate how rushed the last two chapters were. The 10 year timeskip and the shoehorning in of his children at the end made the whole thing feel kinda empty. It didn't really sink in that "this knucklehead ninja who started in 1999 is finally hokage".
It felt kinda empty.
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Considering nobody took an effort explaining basic skills to Naruto in part 1, nor making him take a Jonin test or something, I don't find it surprising.
Naruto would have been a lot better if it covered a period of something closer to 10 years. At least 6 or 7.
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Did we ever get an explanation for why Tsunade quit being the Hokage? It seemed really abrupt - like the war ended, and Kakashi immediately became Hokage.
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Am I the only one who feels that Naruto should have been hokage before Kakashi? Or at least have that area explained?
Naruto was not only the strongerst character at the end of the show, but his leadership and emotional maturity (at least when it comes to human relations) where also the strongest by the show's end.
At very least, I hate how rushed the last two chapters were. The 10 year timeskip and the shoehorning in of his children at the end made the whole thing feel kinda empty. It didn't really sink in that "this knucklehead ninja who started in 1999 is finally hokage".
It felt kinda empty.
Kakashi was the more experienced though comically the weakest of the two due to getting nerfed.
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I think the Kakashi novel covers a lot of the reasons for Kakashi becoming hokage after Tsunade quits and his thoughts on that. The anime is currently adapting all the novels so it'll cover that story too if you're interested
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Did we ever get an explanation for why Tsunade quit being the Hokage? It seemed really abrupt - like the war ended, and Kakashi immediately became Hokage.
Because Tsunade dying after being crushed in half would have made too much sense.
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Because Tsunade dying after being crushed in half would have made too much sense.
If Obito can shrug off having his whole left side crushed by a rock and not die why not do it with Tsunade who has the power of plot.
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Kakashi should have just became Hokage after Danzo's demise rather than handing the reigns back to Tsunade. It's not like I even remember her offering any memorable moments during the war besides the Kage teamup against Mads.
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]Considering nobody took an effort explaining basic skills to Naruto in part 1, nor making him take a Jonin test or something, I don't find it surprising.
Naruto would have been a lot better if it covered a period of something closer to 10 years. At least 6 or 7.
Yeah but the whole jonin thing kinda became meaningless as the show went on. Kishimoto didn't even follow his own internal logic, or acknowledge it's change. Strategy became useless, and I feel Naruto already had the brute strength and experience anyways. At the very least, he could have had involved advisors like Tsunade.
I mean, Tsunade and Hiruzen weren't shown doing much paperwork.
I guess I'm just mad at how Shippuden turned out… ugh...
Naruto Part 1 was a legitimately great show, the more and more I watch it. Yeah it had a few flaws, but it hammered in all the essentials very well, or even exceptionally. It's still one of the few works I've watched it where I've seriously rooted for the main characters, even 10 years later. Hell, one of the few shonen to legit be as good if not better than One Piece at it's own peak.
I hate how Naruto's basic narrative/plot basically got rewritten and retconned. It was never supposed to be/never should have been some sort of Naruto/Sasuke parallel story and how they're fates intertwined with and dealt with by the Akatsuki and all that jazz.
Like, they say that there's so much violence in the ninja world and that the villages always fight… yet literally all of what we see in the current show is just Akatsuki attacking. The worldbuilding fell apart too, and the way they handled the generations/supporting characters also felt very odd compared to part 1.
EDIT: Why is there a gap between geenrations? The rookie 9 were special plus Rock Lee's group are special, but where are the people between them and Kakashi's group?
PEople who would be 15 or 16 years old at the start of part 1?
Are they all weak or something? It's okay if they're not shown early on, but as the series begins to focus on the major grand missions... it wouldn't hurt to show people from outside Naruto's sphere. Other jonin, etc.
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Yeah but the whole jonin thing kinda became meaningless as the show went on. Kishimoto didn't even follow his own internal logic, or acknowledge it's change. Strategy became useless, and I feel Naruto already had the brute strength and experience anyways. At the very least, he could have had involved advisors like Tsunade.
I mean, Tsunade and Hiruzen weren't shown doing much paperwork.
It became meaningless because Kishimoto made it so. Instead of letting the story last a while to let Naruto and others mature a little, while giving more attention to world building, he compressed the whole of part 2 in, what, a couple of months?
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Considering nobody took an effort explaining basic skills to Naruto in part 1, nor making him take a Jonin test or something, I don't find it surprising.
Naruto would have been a lot better if it covered a period of something closer to 10 years. At least 6 or 7.
There is no Jonin test, the all thing is done through recommendation letters!
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Am I the only one who feels that Naruto should have been hokage before Kakashi? Or at least have that area explained?
Naruto was not only the strongerst character at the end of the show, but his leadership and emotional maturity (at least when it comes to human relations) where also the strongest by the show's end.
At very least, I hate how rushed the last two chapters were. The 10 year timeskip and the shoehorning in of his children at the end made the whole thing feel kinda empty. It didn't really sink in that "this knucklehead ninja who started in 1999 is finally hokage".
It felt kinda empty.
That because after the Chunin exam become hokage was never seriously taken in consideration. Just the final brought that fact "becoming Hokage" again.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Yeah but the whole jonin thing kinda became meaningless as the show went on. Kishimoto didn't even follow his own internal logic, or acknowledge it's change. Strategy became useless, and I feel Naruto already had the brute strength and experience anyways. At the very least, he could have had involved advisors like Tsunade.
I mean, Tsunade and Hiruzen weren't shown doing much paperwork.
I guess I'm just mad at how Shippuden turned out… ugh...
Naruto Part 1 was a legitimately great show, the more and more I watch it. Yeah it had a few flaws, but it hammered in all the essentials very well, or even exceptionally. It's still one of the few works I've watched it where I've seriously rooted for the main characters, even 10 years later. Hell, one of the few shonen to legit be as good if not better than One Piece at it's own peak.
I hate how Naruto's basic narrative/plot basically got rewritten and retconned. It was never supposed to be/never should have been some sort of Naruto/Sasuke parallel story and how they're fates intertwined with and dealt with by the Akatsuki and all that jazz.
Like, they say that there's so much violence in the ninja world and that the villages always fight… yet literally all of what we see in the current show is just Akatsuki attacking. The worldbuilding fell apart too, and the way they handled the generations/supporting characters also felt very odd compared to part 1.
EDIT: Why is there a gap between geenrations? The rookie 9 were special plus Rock Lee's group are special, but where are the people between them and Kakashi's group?
PEople who would be 15 or 16 years old at the start of part 1?
Are they all weak or something? It's okay if they're not shown early on, but as the series begins to focus on the major grand missions... it wouldn't hurt to show people from outside Naruto's sphere. Other jonin, etc.
The lacking of proper world building doesn't start at part 2. Part 1 had already the same problems, but fortunately we were in the introduction phase of the series. Try to remember what happened in part 1: - Village Introduction, Bridge construction arc(remember how the bad guy was the richest man in the world? Yep he was), Chuunin Exam, Tsunade Hokage recruitment(do you remember the places that Naruto and Jiraya passed by, and where did they found Tsunade? And What and Why was Tsunade outside of the village doing?), Sasuke Retrieval Mission(Remember where Naruto and is group passed on? It was just random trees. The only place of reference was the Valley of the End).
Also is important to note that Kishimoto said that the story started just focusing with Naruto and Sasuke, because he loves Sword of the Immortal, and from the beginning he wanted to do Naruto plot go in the same direction: Starting as something more open and just funneling it in just a single point.
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There is no Jonin test, the all thing is done through recommendation letters!
Of course, in brown envelopes. :ninja:
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Of course, in brown envelopes. :ninja:
You may be joking, but it was made official with the movie road of ninja, that was written by Kishimoto
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There is no Jonin test, the all thing is done through recommendation letters!
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
That because after the Chunin exam become hokage was never seriously taken in consideration. Just the final brought that fact "becoming Hokage" again.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
The lacking of proper world building doesn't start at part 2. Part 1 had already the same problems, but fortunately we were in the introduction phase of the series. Try to remember what happened in part 1: - Village Introduction, Bridge construction arc(remember how the bad guy was the richest man in the world? Yep he was), Chuunin Exam, Tsunade Hokage recruitment(do you remember the places that Naruto and Jiraya passed by, and where did they found Tsunade? And What and Why was Tsunade outside of the village doing?), Sasuke Retrieval Mission(Remember where Naruto and is group passed on? It was just random trees. The only place of reference was the Valley of the End).
Also is important to note that Kishimoto said that the story started just focusing with Naruto and Sasuke, because he loves Sword of the Immortal, and from the beginning he wanted to do Naruto plot go in the same direction: Starting as something more open and just funneling it in just a single point.
The world building point makes a lot of sense. However, I feel like that's a bit of a discredit to part 1; they still did a good job establishing ninja hierarchy, and allowing the plot to be driven by the elements of the world itself (naruto stealing a forbidden scroll, having to undergo a ninja exam, to become a higher ranked ninja, etc.). Those elements are apart of the world, hence why the plot moved so seamlessly in Part 1.
It's similar to One Piece; early on, the series was also limited. However, unlike Shippuden, One Piece saw itself introducing major characters - and their influence on the story/world - as Luffy got more important in the world.
That's why the characters react to certain things the way they do: take for instance, the void century thing. Crocodile needs Robin, because she knows about the poneglyph, because she's from Ohara, hence why she's on the run, because the government wants to kill her, because they want to conceal the void century. And you see how seamlessly the CP9 Saga comes into fruition afterwards.
That's because Oda planned ahead so well.
That's something Shippuden needed sorely.
Can I get a source for the Kishimoto comment if possible? That's sounds fascinating. As a writer, I hate having to be formulaic, so I don't have an inherent problem with Kishimoto planning for Naruto to change it's style up.
But I feel that he really didn't do it in a good way. I think the reason why is because doing that requires an intense amount of effort, given how Naruto started: it was the type of series that had a very established world (or was trending in that direction). If he were to fulfill it (by adressing the whole generation "gap" I mentioned, planning ahead for other villages and their important characters, and working in the elements of the world like the amount of orphans and violence into the ninja politc/hokage business), and try to make it a parallel story of Naruto and Sasuke by the end, it would have taken a rigorous amount of planning ahead - hence why Eichiro Oda of One Piece is so stressed.
It would have helped if Sasuke's screentime wasn't so little in Part 1 as well.
It became meaningless because Kishimoto made it so. Instead of letting the story last a while to let Naruto and others mature a little, while giving more attention to world building, he compressed the whole of part 2 in, what, a couple of months?
That's a good point. The show lost it's flow. The whole of part 2 just seemed to be the Sasuke/Akatsuki show, and Kishimoto disregarded his former style. I wouldn't even mind it if he at least worked it into the themes of the show.
It would be like as if the whitebeard war saga was part 2 of One Piece, and it ended there with Luffy suddenly being pirate king 2 months after beating akainu.
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It also helps to compare the timeskips. We still don't know the full consequences of the Shabody timeskip aliances formed and broke down, world powers changed, scientific advancement happened, while here in ninja world the characters changed their desings. That's it. If they went into the time chamber of dragon ball it would have accomplished mostly the same, it was like "and nothing mayor happened in these years".
Some of Dragon Ball timeskips were like this, we can't measure it the same way as the world was never the focus over the characters, but using the characters as the points of reference they do grow, marry and have kids, or become hermits in the dessert, or be forgotten by Toriyama. Dragon Ball has at least seven timeskips, eight if you count the last chapter (I might be counting wrong). Out of those, only the ones of "let's train and nothing else" keep the status quo, and even during one of those we got the most surprising change, Goku grown up. The changes were inmediately aparent, no surprises or new Dog as the king of the world, but as they were so many, and Toriyama didn't make a big deal out of them, it wasn't that relevant.
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Oh come on, Naruto did come back from his long training with a bigger variation of a technique he already knew and a non perfected genjutsu countering skill.
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Did Naruto ever get good at dispelling ANY level of Genjutsu by himself? And I mean without relying on the Nine-Tails.
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I don't think Naruto ever got good at doing anything without the Ninetails. His shadow clone jutsu was posible because of the huge chakra pool. When Orochimaru blocked the Nintetails chakra, Naruto couldn't even use basic techniques like walking on water. And then he and Jiraiya gave up on jutsus because Naruto couldn't do hand seals, so they went the rasengan route. He learned how to summon the toads and used them sparingly. After that what, his power ups consisted on going N-tail mode (with N less than 6 for the most part, if I remember). Maybe the wind rasengan, but again he mastered it through his huge chakra pool to train tens of times faster. Sage mode might be the only case of a technique where he didn't abuse the Ninetails or his chakra directly, but it got outclassed by tailed Naruto in its debut. Then Naruto and Ninetails trained to become friends and all that previous stuff didn't matter too much.
So stuff that Naruto could have done without Ninetails:
Summon big toads.
Rasengan, probably. Just the incomplete version, unless we saw him as an adult after years of training like it was supposed to be for the rasenshuriken.
Sage mode, provided he could mantain a single shadow clone (or he learned how to stay put like a normal human being).
Exploding tag to the ass. -
So stuff that Naruto could have done without Ninetails:
Summon big toads.
Rasengan, probably. Just the incomplete version, unless we saw him as an adult after years of training like it was supposed to be for the rasenshuriken.
Sage mode, provided he could mantain a single shadow clone (or he learned how to stay put like a normal human being).
Exploding tag to the ass.You forgot turning into a naked lady.
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You forgot turning into a naked lady.
And farting in Kiba's face.
@Count:
Did Naruto ever get good at dispelling ANY level of Genjutsu by himself? And I mean without relying on the Nine-Tails.
No not that he needed to anyway considering Genjutsu's mostly fell to the way side over massive crowd killing Ninjutsu arts.
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You forgot turning into a naked lady.
And turning into a harem of pretty boys to distract the end villain.
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Naruto at the end was at least able to make a rasengan normally without havingto look likw a doofus getting his shadowclones to do the hard work for him
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No not that he needed to anyway considering Genjutsu's mostly fell to the way side over massive crowd killing Ninjutsu arts.
I still remember when Kakashi praised Sakura in Part 1 for Genjutsu being her speciality or something to that effect. My God, that is one hilarious thing to think about in hindsight. Maybe her best Genjutsu was fooling Kakashi into thinking she could be proficient in that Jutsu field.
Naruto at the end was at least able to make a rasengan normally without havingto look likw a doofus getting his shadowclones to do the hard work for him
Considering how Minato took three years to make a full one from scratch with one hand, and it took at least FOUR years for Naruto to learn how to do that with one had AFTER mastering it with the help of Shadow Clones in just three days, I don't know if I can really give him much credit for that feat. Although I won't lie, seeing him finally form a full Rasengan for the final clash was pretty enticing as a symbolic way of showing his character coming full-circle.
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@Count:
I still remember when Kakashi praised Sakura in Part 1 for Genjutsu being her speciality or something to that effect. My God, that is one hilarious thing to think about in hindsight. Maybe her best Genjutsu was fooling Kakashi into thinking she could be proficient in that Jutsu field.
That and from a meta sense fooling the NaruSaku part of the fanbase during the Kage Summit into thinking that her confession was genuine. And that Naruto still had a shot.
@Count:
and it took at least FOUR years for Naruto to learn how to do that with one had AFTER mastering it with the help of Shadow Clones in just three days,
Technically he learned how to do it "spontaneously" during the Sasuke Retrieval Arc while in one tail mode…..something I don't ever think was properly explained. And was swept under the rug afterwards.
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Sakura had the best control over chakra in the group.
Sakura was extremely smart and knowledgeable.
Sakura was good at all the types of jutsu, with an orientation towards genjutsu.
Sakura learned healing techniques from the best.
Sakura became very physically strong and self-confident.
Sakura was the first to kill an Akatsuki member, with Chiyo's helps.Kishimoto kept saying good stuff about her because for the most part, he didn't know how to make her useful in the story. Her highest point was against Sasori, and that fell flat after the Akatsuki started dying one after another at the hands of the new generation.
In the end, Sakura became a single mother with anger issues, bad health and money problems (played for laughs). And the father of her daughter is a psycho.
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In burrito Sasuke is all rigth. Growing up, and having the experience and skill to back up his ego, that feels like it has been reduced, appropriately.
Yeah, he didn't pay for his crimes, but he is reformed, we as the audience have everything needed to forgive him. I just don't care either way.
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I find very confusing the same series that says "not helping your friends/loved ones out of sense of duty makes you worse than trash" also treats as a misunderstood hero the man who killed his whole family to prevent some conflict (that could, maybe, someday, who knows, in the future, if everything goes wrong, culminate in a war).