Still waiting for a gif of this
JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Part II: Do the Dio Walk!
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Interesting news: As most of you know viz will re-release Jojo Part 3 in the Jojonium edition and on this week's podcast it was confirmed that the translation will be re-edited as well. So there is a value added to buy the Jojonium release for those who already read the tankobon release
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So it looks like they are swapping some arcs around. Cinderella is coming next instead of Yoshikage Kira's quiet life. Looks like we will get all 3 kira parts in a row now.
Great decision from David Pro so we won't have our beautiful Duwang interrupted. It'll be glorious.
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So it looks like they are swapping some arcs around. Cinderella is coming next instead of Yoshikage Kira's quiet life. Looks like we will get all 3 kira parts in a row now.
Definitely a good creative choice tonal-wise. I always thought it was a bit awkward how we jump from something dark like Yoshikage Kira Wants a Quiet Life to another romantic misadventure, and then back to that original darkness.
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@Count:
Definitely a good creative choice tonal-wise. I always thought it was a bit awkward how we jump from something dark like Yoshikage Kira Wants a Quiet Life to another romantic misadventure, and then back to that original darkness.
Plus it gives us some more time with Shegechi.
I always thought it a bit strange to introduce a new close friend to Josuke and Okuyasu then kill him off so quickly; giving us a few more episodes let's us connect with him a bit more (TBH I hope they show the trio hanging out together)
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Plus it gives us some more time with Shegechi.
I always thought it a bit strange to introduce a new close friend to Josuke and Okuyasu then kill him off so quickly; giving us a few more episodes let's us connect with him a bit more (TBH I hope they show the trio hanging out together)
I agree as well. And putting the Cinderella episode before helps the build-up for later relevance feel more organic instead of conveniently happening right before Sheer Heart Attack.
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@Count:
I agree as well. And putting the Cinderella episode before helps the build-up for later relevance feel more organic instead of conveniently happening right before Sheer Heart Attack.
Wow, I never realized that but yeah when you point it out it really does seem a tad too convient.
While Kira is quite honestly one of Jojo's best villains I do think that Araki just sort of thought him up on the spot and then quickly made him the main antagonist. And so we have that really fast pace of Segechi and Cinderella.
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Wow, I never realized that but yeah when you point it out it really does seem a tad too convient.
While Kira is quite honestly one of Jojo's best villains I do think that Araki just sort of thought him up on the spot and then quickly made him the main antagonist. And so we have that really fast pace of Segechi and Cinderella.
To be fair, I wouldn't exactly say that JoJo's strength as a franchise is in good pacing and consistency. I do agree about what you said regarding Kira. Especially when you consider Another One Bites the Dust… Well, in general as a concept, even by Araki's creatively bizarre standards lol.
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Just a little for-fun something I just came across and can't recall having seen here yet or, if it has, not recently so either way what the hell: The first Jojo OP covered by Shoko Nakagawa (who sang Gurren Lagann's OP)
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Ohhh, how I miss the older OPs, they have such a different feel to them compared to the DiU ones, I can't really explain :3
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Koichi is sure one lucky guy.
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If he has a scoliosis fetish, then sure.
Gotta love Araki's anatomy lol.
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Koichi is sure one lucky guy.
Too bad, he will only get enjoy Being with Yukako for like 12 years before you Know What happens in Part 6
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@Count:
If he has a scoliosis fetish, then sure.
Gotta love Araki's anatomy lol.
I get what you mean.
On the other hand Aya got breast implants and for looks of it strong legs.
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I did not expect to like this episode so much. Loved the visual style, how much of the cast appeared and how Josuke almost fell out of the window. However, I didn't like the resultion that much, not a big fan of these scenes where characters - without hesitation - suddenly just willingly give up something important such as their sight.
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I did not expect to like this episode so much. Loved the visual style, how much of the cast appeared and how Josuke almost fell out of the window. However, I didn't like the resultion that much, not a big fan of these scenes where characters - without hesitation - suddenly just willingly give up something important such as their sight.
It was to show show Koichi's dedication…..to a girl who weeks earlier kidnapped him and tortured him plus it ultimately didn't
happen. -
Koichi was just being a cheeky little bastard he already had his boy Josuke hanging around outside ready to heal up his eyes first thing
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I did not expect to like this episode so much. Loved the visual style, how much of the cast appeared and how Josuke almost fell out of the window. However, I didn't like the resultion that much, not a big fan of these scenes where characters - without hesitation - suddenly just willingly give up something important such as their sight.
I like to think it was a reference to fairy tales and characters falling deeply in love (for the rest of their lives) with someone they just met. Those princes are always putting their lives in danger to rescue the princess they met earlier that morning, that would fit the theme of Cinderella mini-arc.
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This was so funny, how Josuke almost fall off the 2nd floor..
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Okuyasu giving no fucks…...then again Josuke did throttle him while he was unconcious and did something similar after Akira
nearly killed him. -
Ok Who is going to buy it?
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Ok Who is going to buy it?
I want that. Now.
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Ok Who is going to buy it?
What is this exactly, sorry if this is a dumb question….
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What is this exactly, sorry if this is a dumb question….
! I believe it's supposed to be a keychain of the hand of one of Kira's victims along with some type of related notebook or manual since Killer Queen's symbol is on the front. And the box that says "St. Gentlemen" is a reference to the fast food takeout bag that Kira kept a hand in and accidentally got it swapped with the same style bag that Shigechi had.
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Merchandise the way i like it.
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@Count:
! I believe it's supposed to be a keychain of the hand of one of Kira's victims along with some type of related notebook or manual since Killer Queen's symbol is on the front. And the box that says "St. Gentlemen" is a reference to the fast food takeout bag that Kira kept a hand in and accidentally got it swapped with the same style bag that Shigechi had.
Cool. Makes this weeks episode that much more appealing.
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Watching JoJo sometimes feels like a deliberate challenge to my old gripe with shonen 180 character redemptions. Its alleviated by the overall zany tone of the series and the extreme frequency at which it occurs, but part of my mind will always be going "That guy you're geeking out with about manga made someone stab his eye out! The mangaka you're hanging out with was just about to Tsukishima you to death! That girl you're smooching set someone elses head on fire, and kept you locked in a nightmarish game of house!!"
Even loveable goof Okuyasu got his debut violently choking Koichis head with a giant steel door. I wonder where Araki draws the line for unredeemability; outright murder? I guess thats true for most shonen, but the foe/friend turnover is just so insanely fast in JoJo that you notice it more. -
@Daz:
Watching JoJo sometimes feels like a deliberate challenge to my old gripe with shonen 180 character redemptions. Its alleviated by the overall zany tone of the series and the extreme frequency at which it occurs, but part of my mind will always be going "That guy you're geeking out with about manga made someone stab his eye out! The mangaka you're hanging out with was just about to Tsukishima you to death! That girl you're smooching set someone elses head on fire, and kept you locked in a nightmarish game of house!!"
Even loveable goof Okuyasu got his debut violently choking Koichis head with a giant steel door. I wonder where Araki draws the line for unredeemability; outright murder? I guess thats true for most shonen, but the foe/friend turnover is just so insanely fast in JoJo that you notice it more.It gets even more interesting when you take into account how Araki didn't write Green Hierophant's power to possess bodies into any of Kakyoin's time as an ally because it would look too sinister and originally wanted Hol Horse to join the Stardust Crusaders before opting to revive Avdol. And if outright murder is the real border, then how about Polnareff's revenge against J. Geil? It's not like how Vanilla Ice, Dio, or any other supernatural enemies were monsters that had to be killed with no chance for incapacitation, Jean Pierre just went straight for the kill against a fellow human with blood gushing everywhere and was the only non-Vampire who got defeated without being "Retired", ignoring N'Doul's suicide. You can kind of excuse it since we were made to detest the Hanged Man as a character and villain, but there are pretty loose moral standards for the series besides being constantly homicidal and sociopathic.
You really can't rely on Jojo for much consistency whether its ethics or powers, as seen with the Ripple and its many inconsistencies, Dio's hypnotization powers in Part 3 (and you've gotta love how Polnareff and Kakyoin are coincidentally the only hypnotized characters that the MC's fight while the rest are in it for the money) and plot-convenient powers, or overpowered Stands that override the conventions of close-ranged ones being powerful and longer-ranged ones being weaker. Araki just draws whatever's sounds cool in his head lol.
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The whole universe of JoJo is filled with people coming from nothing being granted powers to change their lifes.
So Araki draws the picture of humans becoming blind and greedy by using their abilities to their advantages.
By that many humans are heavily drawn to the darker side, being finally able to fulfill their darker human fantasies.
Once opened their eyes, they can be redeemed in most cases, and where to draw a line can everyone judge for himself.
Maybe one has to acknowledge how he himself could quickly wind up abusing powers in certain situations. -
Araki doesn't even draw the line at outright murder considering a major ally in Part 6 is a convicted murderer
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@Don:
The whole universe of JoJo is filled with people coming from nothing being granted powers to change their lifes.
So Araki draws the picture of humans becoming blind and greedy by using their abilities to their advantages.
By that many humans are heavily drawn to the darker side, being finally able to fulfill their darker human fantasies.
Once opened their eyes, they can be redeemed in most cases, and where to draw a line can everyone judge for himself.
Maybe one has to acknowledge how he himself could quickly wind up abusing powers in certain situations.Dio and Angelo being terrible human beings the moment they show up on screen not withstanding.
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@Daz:
I wonder where Araki draws the line for unredeemability; outright murder?
Dog abuse?
And regarding the violent behavior, seeing how Fugo treats Narancia I don't think Araki sees it as a big deal.
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@Don:
The whole universe of JoJo is filled with people coming from nothing being granted powers to change their lifes.
So Araki draws the picture of humans becoming blind and greedy by using their abilities to their advantages.
By that many humans are heavily drawn to the darker side, being finally able to fulfill their darker human fantasies.
Once opened their eyes, they can be redeemed in most cases, and where to draw a line can everyone judge for himself.
Maybe one has to acknowledge how he himself could quickly wind up abusing powers in certain situations.That logic easily applies to superhero comics set in the present urban day. It doesn't mean that the villains frequently get a slap on the wrist for having a sad backstory, a perverse altruistic motive, or ends up regretting what they did if they committed murder, ended up almost destroying the world, raped, etc. Superheroes take up heroism because they have standards of justice and forgiveness, hence why those villains usually get locked away to falling to their doom.
Jojo, like many action series, focuses on a similar (but not as emphasized) good versus evil baseline for its story and protagonist/antagonist interaction. In following that, it should have character and overall story message consistency respectively showcased in its writing. And to have a successful good versus evil plot, you naturally need to focus on the dichotomy between the hero, villain, and overall cast to show how it make sense. If there are inconsistencies regarding a character's specific moral compass or the main ethical messages that the story is trying to express, then it should be brought to attention and critiqued if truly that flawed in its execution. If succumbing to depraved acts while being a normal human before still leaves room for redeemability alone, then what separates a chap like Okuyasu from, say, The Hanged Man in Part 3? Do you honestly think readers would accept the latter would be cool with the MC's if he apologized? No, because we know that the Stardust Crusaders don't stomach greedy and morbid characters like that (as seen in Jean Pierre's passionate monologues and Jotaro's speech to possessed Kakyoin about punishing evil). They have established standards, which is why forgiveness wouldn't make sense in that case.
Just because a character realizes the error of their ways doesn't mean that they can automatically be redeemed with consistent writing regarding the story's ethical themes. Ethics, justice, and redeemability, like in real life, are a lot more complex than that. You only explained why people can be frequently seduced by opportunity in the universe, not the intricacies of why they can be understandably forgiven and even be made allies afterwards. Relatability only sparks emotional investment and reaction, not actual justification for one's actions alone. And when writing ethical standards, they're typically tied to the author's subjective mentality/philosophy put into the story whether he consciously does it on-purpose or not to some sort of degree (not that he has to agree with it. An author of a Punisher comic doesn't need to support capital punishment lol). So Daz asks a decent question in asking what exactly Araki condones for an antagonist to get recruited with the good guys we should support.
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The characters In JoJo don't usually hold "society's justice" but their own, they are entitled to pursue or forgive their attackers. If koichi is naive enough to forgive oyashu, keiko and rohan, that his issue.
You can only forgive or resent what has been done to you and to yours. That is the moral that araki plants in the story.
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@CountMario
Defining a character by his choices, who he thinks is redeemable and who isn´t, gives us readers a nice glimpse into his mindset and values.
When you have a tightened set of ethic values you stand for, you´re quicker to judge people who go against them.
That applies to the bad guys, who in most cases see those others unworthy instantly, but it also applies to the good guys, who can still decide who is worth "safing".
Who to safe depends on the already established ethics of the character,those with tightened ethics are way harder to change, may they be right or wrong in their thinking.
Some characters have a greater picture in sight, which makes their actions afterwards harder to forgive, because they were convinced of their (from our perspective) wrong approach, but who was still justified by their own ethics.
So those characters who could be forgiven, most likely have (from the perspective of our protagonists) not fully formed ethic values (or at least aren´t convinced of their own ethics) and by that may not be as responsible as others in their actions. That could lead to them being redeemable.
That of course doesn´t apply to every character, especially when it´s personal for the protagonist, or when the antagonist goes through a change in the course of the story. -
I agree with everything that's been said. I don't think there have really been any circumstances in Jojo where a protagonist recruiting a redeemed enemy after defeat was out of character or in bad taste with the manga's themes. I just wanted to make a point that just because enemies in the series gave into their temptations for committing misdeeds after having mundane or tragic lives does not automatically mean it's possible for them to get forgiven. Otherwise, that means Dio could have gotten a free pass because of his rough background if he felt sorry after he got beat by Jonathan or by Jotaro after killing Kakyoin and Joseph. It would not have made sense for the Joestar protagonists to not still hold Dio acccountable for his actions from what we've seen with their established personalities and moral beliefs as individual characters.
If something seems ethically or personally inconsistent with a character without proper elaboration, it should be critiqued. As people have said, Jojo is not a morally uptight series of about direct selflessness as a constant focus. But it does focus on the conflict of good versus evil to a certain degree, and certain characters are shown to have their own distinct moral standards from time to time. So there has to be some form of relative consistency on that front depending on the specific character and plot.
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I roll with most of it, since it's done decently enough. Hell, before coming back to do my pre-anime reread, I'd forgotten that Rohan was portrayed as villainous at all.
The one thing that does get to me, though, is Yukako. Not only does she not really change at all from who she was in her intro, she ends up with Koichi by manipulating him with stand powers, which really just makes her a worse person in my eyes.
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Eh… I kind of pass it off because it was a shonen manga. During the 90's, I might add. Just considering having Jolyne as an action-shonen protagonist was revolutionary enough to intimidate Jump at first.
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@Daz:
Watching JoJo sometimes feels like a deliberate challenge to my old gripe with shonen 180 character redemptions. Its alleviated by the overall zany tone of the series and the extreme frequency at which it occurs, but part of my mind will always be going "That guy you're geeking out with about manga made someone stab his eye out! The mangaka you're hanging out with was just about to Tsukishima you to death! That girl you're smooching set someone elses head on fire, and kept you locked in a nightmarish game of house!!"
Even loveable goof Okuyasu got his debut violently choking Koichis head with a giant steel door. I wonder where Araki draws the line for unredeemability; outright murder? I guess thats true for most shonen, but the foe/friend turnover is just so insanely fast in JoJo that you notice it more.To be fair, that kind of stuff only happens during Part 4 and it´s because of the part´s unusual nature, even by Jojo´s standards.
I can´t recall a single incident like that during part 5 and on part 6 we only have Guess and FF. The first never actual turns good, but simply gets overpowered, and the second is actually one of the best redemptions of the entire series.
The one thing that does get to me, though, is Yukako. Not only does she not really change at all from who she was in her intro, she ends up with Koichi by manipulating him with stand powers, which really just makes her a worse person in my eyes.
This.
I had actually forgotten how bad that was until I watched the episode.
I guess in the end Koichi does fall for her, but I wonder how much of that was due to Aya´s stand influence.
The fact that! we don´t really see both characters interact ever again doesn´t really help to get a solid conclusion about their relation.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Don:
The whole universe of JoJo is filled with people coming from nothing being granted powers to change their lifes.
So Araki draws the picture of humans becoming blind and greedy by using their abilities to their advantages.
By that many humans are heavily drawn to the darker side, being finally able to fulfill their darker human fantasies.
Once opened their eyes, they can be redeemed in most cases, and where to draw a line can everyone judge for himself.
Maybe one has to acknowledge how he himself could quickly wind up abusing powers in certain situations.Funnily enough, I actually think it´s the opposite, especially during part 4.
Most of the characters would still be doing similar stuff even without their stands.
Tamami would still be a con artist, Hazamada a dangerous, vengeful creep, Yukaku an obsessed girl, etc.
The stands might cause them to have a delusion of grander power and make them perform actions that they usually wouldn´t have the guts to, but the nature is still there. -
All this talk about morality and redemption in JoJo.
Well, some more fuel to the fire.
Cool chapter, but. . .is Joushu even learning anything?
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Joushu is a fucking piece of shit.
This whole Par t8 is full of fucking pieces of shit.
It is like the flipped out version of Part 4 Morioh, really.
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Nah, man
Josh got a little more mature, even the chapter says sobut anyways, where Yasuho, araki
gimme the yas -
I just realized that after today's episode, I'll have to get used to saying Kira Yoshikage…ugh
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Weather Forecast: Today is gonna be a beautiful…Duwaaang.
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Yukako does reappear in the final chapter of Diamond is Unbreakable
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! https://66.media.tumblr.com/54e299daa1fff264a23085406458a4d1/tumblr_oc6351Pf5p1u0jrjfo1_540.gif
:D
! https://67.media.tumblr.com/ee4b051c5075ef6700c1a607d0f14c69/tumblr_oc631utf1x1s3wumuo1_540.gif
D:D:
! http://i.imgur.com/iy6POqI.jpg
D= D= D=Killer Queen's legs look DERP. Hope they fix that in the DVD release.
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Shigechi and Kira are both excellent characters, easily among my top 5 from this part (Araki likes Shigechi more than DIO aswell ).
Regarding latest JOJOLION chapter, it was splendid. A lovely mini arc.
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I actually felt nauseated watching him eat the sauce off the hand.