Probably had already the fruit that needs for Mera Mera to respawn with him back in Marineford knowing how strong Mera Mera is and that Ace was propably going to die. So just he bring the fruit and had Trebol to secure it like he secure the keys for the factory and Sugar
Theory: The National Treasure Is the Ancient Weapon Uranus
-
-
Am I the only one who believes Doula Mongo needed the Ope Ope to steal the national treasure??
Because well, the ope ope seems to be the ultimate thief's dream, you can open and close anything, even diamond and kairouseki. -
Oda is a firm beliver that bigger is stronger, in contrast with toriyama who belives in focused power. See luffys gears vs dbz transforming villians.
If the treasure is Uranus or a thing that can defeat Poseidon and pluton, it won't be small enough to be pickpocketed.
-
Doula Mongo obtained the Mera Mera literally in less than a day after needing it for his plan. Gathering fruits is not a problem for him. A lot of people are not interested in becoming fruit users and would rather have the money from selling them.
Ace died more than two years ago. We do not know when during that time gap Doflmaingo obtained Ace’s devil fruit. We can’t say he obtained it during one day when there is nothing that supports this claim.
When Doflamingo chose to make Law his right hand man, he said that he deals in devil fruits and, if luck is on Law’s side, during the three years that Law still has to live, Doflamingo could get his hands on a fruit that will make it possible for Law to survive his disease.
After two years and 6 months Doflamingo finally found a lead on the Ope Ope that will later become Law’s devil fruit.
By now you see how hard it is for Doflamingo to get his hands on the Ope Ope. It is possible that he was seeking the Ope Ope for more than that time(2 years and 6 months).
When Blackbeard was narrating the story behind his devil fruit, he said that it took him ‘several decades’ to find his fruit.
And do not dismiss the fact that Whitebeard’s ship is said to have the ‘best chance' of finding such rare devil fruits.
Killing Law could cause the same thing to happen. It could also cause Doflamingo to never find the devil fruit in his lifetime. The multiple attempts that Doflamingo made on Law's life strongly suggest that he does not need it for his plan.
-
Ace died more than two years ago. We do not know when during that time gap Doflmaingo obtained Ace’s devil fruit. We can’t say he obtained it during one day when there is nothing that supports this claim.
When Doflamingo chose to make Law his right hand man, he said that he deals in devil fruits and, if luck is on Law’s side, during the three years that Law still has to live, Doflamingo could get his hands on a fruit that will make it possible for Law to survive his disease.
http://i.imgur.com/w62InY2.png
After two years and 6 months Doflamingo finally found a lead on the Ope Ope that will later become Law’s devil fruit.
http://i.imgur.com/k6jO84y.png
By now you see how hard it is for Doflamingo to get his hands on the Ope Ope. It is possible that he was seeking the Ope Ope for more than that time(2 years and 6 months).
When Blackbeard was narrating the story behind his devil fruit, he said that it took him ‘several decades’ to find his fruit.
http://i.imgur.com/juwagzQ.pngAnd do not dismiss the fact that Whitebeard’s ship is said to have the ‘best chance' of finding such rare devil fruits.
Killing Law could cause the same thing to happen. It could also cause Doflamingo to never find the devil fruit in his lifetime. The multiple attempts that Doflamingo made on Law's life strongly suggest that he does not need it for his plan.
He might not need it for his plan, but you have to remember that Kaido's war being related to obtaining the treasure is still just speculation.
We do not know if his plan is actually related to said treasure. It could very well be an alternate plan.
And really, if Doula just wanted an opportunity, why not do it during the Marineford War?
-
He might not need it for his plan, but you have to remember that Kaido's war being related to obtaining the treasure is still just speculation.
We do not know if his plan is actually related to said treasure. It could very well be an alternate plan.
And really, if Doula just wanted an opportunity, why not do it during the Marineford War?
But Whitebeard’s war was waged at Marineford. I have never said he will wage his war at Marineford. I have never specified the location of the war. He could be waging his war at Mariejois. The government’s forces will be out in the battlefield, occupied by Kaido and his army while Doflamingo sneaks to where the national treasure is. Remember the scenario of Law?
Law joined the Straw Hats and made an attack on Punk Hazard and made everyone occupied by the fighting, while he himself used that opportunity to reach the SAD.
When Doflamingo was told about it, he said that he was able to predict what he was thinking.
One of the possible explanations to Doflamingo’s prediction of what Law’s clever plan was is that he (Doflamingo) had a similar one himself.
When Blackbeard successfully executed his plan of sneaking to Impel Down and fulfilling his underhanded motive, Doflamingo was shown brimming with excitement at that.
Oda-sensei did this for a reason – a reason that we will discover later on as the story progresses. Doflamingo was shown being excited at both the idea of a war between an emperor and also the idea of using that war to one’s own advantage. As the story progressed, we discovered that Doflamingo was trying to execute the same thing(war) using Kaido, so it is reasonable to believe that the next step will be similar to what Blackbeard has done. -
After Doflamingo was defeated by Luffy, he was chained and had his mouth bound shut.
This shows that Doflamingo does indeed hold dangerous information that the Government wants to keep hidden.
When Doflamingo started talking about the clan of ‘D’ and their appearance, the marine soldiers were seen approaching his cell with rifles in their hands, while Tsuru was stopping them with her right hand.
This shows that the marines have been ordered to take such actions in case Doflamingo started talking about information that will be detrimental to the Government.The information Doflamingo was talking about was from the Void Century, and the soldiers came only after he started talking about it. It could be a foreshadowing regarding the nature of the national treasure(meaning it belongs to the void century). The soldiers were stopped by Tsuru as though she was telling them: ‘he is not talking about “that”(the national treasure), so just calm down.’ That’s the impression I got from that panel.
This kind of foreshadowing was used when Whitebeard was talking about the people/person who inherited Roger’s will, while Luffy was being shown next to the speech bubble that was saying this, implying that Luffy has inherited Roger’s will.
Another possibility: the government could have given them the order to use their rifles on him in case he started talking about X, Y, or Z, or in case he started talking about all of them at once. The soldiers will not understand what these variables mean, but they will execute their orders in case they heard one or more of them being uttered by Doflamingo. Personally, I lean to the former.
When Robin asked Rayleigh about the ‘will of D’, she immediately followed it by another question asking about the history of the Blank Century. When Rayleigh answered her, he said that he knew ‘all of history’, suggesting the ‘D’ is part of that history.
So this supports what I said about D being part of the Void Century.You guys wanted to know how will Doflamingo will leak the information? I’ll share with you what I have in mind, supported by evidence from the manga.
After Doflamingo was defeated by Luffy, Fujitora connected a transmission to three neighboring countries (without the knowledge of the Government.)
Moments after, the information travelled from country to country causing chaos in its wake until it has reached the entire world(read the narration panels).
When the broadcast was happening, there were reporters taking pictures and spreading the news.
Imagine if Doflamingo had connected the transmission to three neighboring countries, and told them about Uranus. It would have been huge news, and it would have changed the world as we know it. Doflamingo's defeat caused chaos in its wake, let alone Uranus' possession by the Government.
Besides, Doflamingo is deeply connected to many important figures in the world.
It would have been very inconvenient for the Government to have the true nature of the national treasure leaked to important figures throughout the globe.
-
After Doflamingo was defeated by Luffy, he was chained and had his mouth bound shut.
http://i.imgur.com/g8cForF.jpgThis shows that Doflamingo does indeed hold dangerous information that the Government wants to keep hidden.
When Doflamingo started talking about the clan of ‘D’ and their appearance, the marine soldiers were seen approaching his cell with rifles in their hands, while Tsuru was stopping them with her right hand.
http://i.imgur.com/t2pxuxO.jpg
This shows that the marines have been ordered to take such actions in case Doflamingo started talking about information that will be detrimental to the Government.that's a great example of bad reading comprehension right there. They started to run to the cell because Doflamingo was being noisy, that's all. Don't state your assumptions as if they were facts when you hold such a bad reading comprehension please.
So this supports what I said about D being part of the Void Century.
Wait, D was part of the…gasp...Void Century? I would have never guessed, props to you for finding this out.
-
Doflamingo has been gathering lots of things, wealth, weapons, zoan soldiers, giant soldiers, toy soldiers, poisons, devil fruit users, he wanted war.
There's the weird piece of the Puzzle, Momonosuke. What does the probable heir to wano brings to the table? Just more Soldiers? Remember that he was important before the dragon fruit.
Sorry for not answering this sooner; I was trying to probe deeper into this, but I’ll tell you what I have in mind for now, and if I discover something later, I’ll share it with you again.
After the Straw Hats landed on Kaido’s island whose name we don’t yet know, Nami, Momonosuke and Brook were distracted by a little girl. That very same girl was being pursued by Kaido’s goons.
As you can see here, Sheepshead was asking them what they have done with her.
After Sheepshead was defeated, we got a glimpse of what is supposed to be the girl they were looking for.
Kaido appears to be looking for ‘children’(Momo & the little girl). I wonder why… If he needs them for war, that must mean that he couldn’t find any more grownups for his militia, and that is why he resorted to the assembling of children. Children wouldn’t be as powerful as adults. If he had the alternative, he must choose adults to amass for war, unless he couldn’t find any more adults to add the number of militia comprised of adults that he intends to lead to war. In other words, Kaido has already amassed one hell of an army to lead to war, excluding the 500 Smile users.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
that's a great example of bad reading comprehension right there. They started to run to the cell because Doflamingo was being noisy, that's all.
Doflamingo was heavily chained by sea stone, incarcerated, and guarded by Tsuru herself, yet the soldiers were coming with rifles in their hands because he was making noise? I find it strange for them to behave like that simply because he was making noise.
Back at Impel Down, the prisoners were incarcerated and making a ‘pandemonium,’ not just ‘noise,’ but the guards did not come there, much less with their rifles in their hands.
Don't state your assumptions as if they were facts when you hold such a bad reading comprehension please.
That right there is called the ad hominem(=argument against the person) abusive fallacy. The purpose of an ad hominem argument is to discredit another person's argument by placing that person in a bad light. It focuses not on the person’s argument but on the person himself(you hold such a bad reading comprehension). ‘You hold such a bad reading comprehension’ is the premise given as a support for your argument. Hence the fallacy.
Besides, assertions are articulations of our beliefs.
-
But Dressrosa is full of kids, and the giantification process was deemed a failure still by notorious mad scientist Caesar Clown, and as we seen with Luffy and Law, no matter the fruit, it takes years of practice for a kid to control it, so other than raw power the kids don't seem particulary useful as of now.
The Kid kidnaping seem closer to Doflamingo's MO, but even then, he only took lonely unwanted damaged kids, because these were the ones that he could brainwash into his army. Note how Baby5, Buffalo, Monet, Sugar, Law and Delinger (even though his case seems more like human trafic). Considering how Doffy can be, we could think that these weren't the only ones, and that Vergo up to his death keept a lot of the children safe, but in current time we don't see any kids with Doffy (other than the 22 years old Sugar). He feels like he has enough family members, and he wouldn't trust much power in someone he didn't raise or brainwash himself.
We know next to nothing about the girl, she doesn't seem as young as Momo, so I find it useless to discuss about her yet.
Momo has a very high posibility of being the heir (or in the succession line) of Wano. I don't think that anyone would think that a spoiled brat would make a good soldier.
-
But Dressrosa is full of kids, and the giantification process was deemed a failure still by notorious mad scientist Caesar Clown,
True, but Dressrosa is Doflamingo’s turf. It is not Kaido’s turf. There is this difference that could be very important in Kaido’s acts.
and as we seen with Luffy and Law, no matter the fruit, it takes years of practice for a kid to control it, so other than raw power the kids don't seem particulary useful as of now.
What if that kid consumed it at a very early age(like 4)? He or she should know how to use their ability at the age of 8 or 12.
We know next to nothing about the girl, she doesn't seem as young as Momo, so I find it useless to discuss about her yet.
That girl is either a walking, (possibly) talking animal, or a zoan user. You saw her appearance. Her face kind of resembles the face of a ‘hedgehog’. I think she is a real human being with an ability.
Notice her ears as well.
It is possible for Kaido to be looking only for kids who show a great potential. Momonosuke is a warrior. He has this potential. The girl is possibly a zoan. She would be useful to him.
I just want you to know that I have my doubts about this as well(seeking kids for war). I don't know why he seeks kids, for certain.
Momo has a very high posibility of being the heir (or in the succession line) of Wano. I don't think that anyone would think that a spoiled brat would make a good soldier.
This thing about heir of Wano and stuff. Could you tell me why you think this? I saw a couple of people saying the same thing, but I don’t know why.
But there is this weird thing that I noticed.
When Momonosuke was captured by Jora, he was stuck in a painting that has a ‘crown’ over his head.
-
I have to reread a while, but its just how Momo poises himself, and how important is he to have 3 samurai escort.
Saying that Kaido is interested in kids with only one or two examples is exaggerated, specially how Caesar was responsible for the kidnappings we know about.
True, a 4 year old would be somewhat ready to use the fruit at 10 years, but then you need the physical strength that even in manga comes around 14 to 16, and superhuman levels at 17, I'd wait until someone shows promise instead of giving random fruits to kids, and get an army of buggyes.
-
I have to reread a while, but its just how Momo poises himself, and how important is he to have 3 samurai escort.
I see, thanks! I’ll look into this as well. If you find something else, don’t hesitate to share it. I would love to know more about this.
Saying that Kaido is interested in kids with only one or two examples is exaggerated, specially how Caesar was responsible for the kidnappings we know about.
That’s a possibility supported by two instances. It is a good possibility.
The kids I showed you were exceptions. The kids Caesar was kidnapping were just your average kids.
True, a 4 year old would be somewhat ready to use the fruit at 10 years, but then you need the physical strength that even in manga comes around 14 to 16, and superhuman levels at 17, I'd wait until someone shows promise instead of giving random fruits to kids, and get an army of buggyes.
At 13 years of age, Rob Lucci killed 500 soldiers of a kingdom, decapitated the captain of the pirates who held them hostages, and survived the blasts of 5 cannonballs on his back [Ch. 422).
This shows that superhuman level strength may show itself in 13 year-old boys .
-
From where do you take that Momo is valuable as a combatant, even more than the other kids?
-
From where do you take that Momo is valuable as a combatant, even more than the other kids?
Well, Momo is a samurai. He said so himself. A samurai kid is different from the other kids that were captured by Caesar. He appears to have a greater potential.
But the case with Momo is very odd though. Kaido was looking for him monomaniacally. It appears to be more important than just getting another soldier for war. He sent his troops and Doflamingo himself after him. It may be related to his war plan, but I don’t think it would be as a soldier. Going to such great lengths just for another soldier is definitely not right.
-
I just wanted to acknowledge here that I was pretty well convinced by your response to me, Australopithecus. What especially helped was a reminder about the timeline; I had forgotten some of the sequencing of things.
Typically, I won't say much of anything if I think a theory is good, but I didn't want to pull a Darth and seem like I was just copping out cause I didn't want to admit you had addressed my concerns.
This seems like quite a bit of evidence, and makes a lot of sense.
One thing I'm wondering about now, though, is Doffy's recent claims, tantamount to: Now that I'm locked away - me, the person who held the chains on Kaido's monsters (as I read it) - the event I wanted to bring about should be happening any time now; this war, without me getting any sort of ancient weapon, is now very close to happening.
What do you make of this, that despite his failure to attain a weapon, he seems to think his goal of starting a war that will shake the world is about the be accomplished nonetheless?
I guess one possibility is that he knows Kaido will try to recapture him, but then again this seems contradicted by the claim that his absence - the absence of the person who holds the chains - is going to be a catalyst.
P.S: I've actually already read the wikipedia on Austrolopithecus, because I wanted to put that Isaac Brock "song" in context; I do think it helped a bit :P
-
One thing I'm wondering about now, though, is Doffy's recent claims, tantamount to: Now that I'm locked away - me, the person who held the chains on Kaido's monsters (as I read it) - the event I wanted to bring about should be happening any time now; this war, without me getting any sort of ancient weapon, is now very close to happening.
What do you make of this, that despite his failure to attain a weapon, he seems to think his goal of starting a war that will shake the world is about the be accomplished nonetheless?
I guess one possibility is that he knows Kaido will try to recapture him, but then again this seems contradicted by the claim that his absence - the absence of the person who holds the chains - is going to be a catalyst.
I think you read it wrong there. What Doffy meant, in my view, was that he was holding the reigns of the monsters of the whole New World. He was, as Law had put it back in Punk Hazard, keeping up the former status quo; maintaining the balance of the Emperors and other pirate factions in the New World, while steadiy preparing for this final war. Now that he is gone, there is going to be no deterrent to Kaido (he doesn't seem the smart type, it seems that if Joker wasn't around he would have already started his war) or the others. The free-for-all with the One Piece at stake will begin. Which is why I think that the linear pattern we've been following since the beginning (excepting the Summit War arc) is going to end, more or less. Instead, we'll have smaller, but still importante skirmishes with the various factions (Marines, Big Mom, Kaido, other alliances), with the Emperors going down only very late in the story and in quick succession. That would make it so that when one of them goes down, we'll be close enough to the end of the series and things will move at a fast pace and the others will remain a threat for the remaining time. I can't imagine, for exemple, Big Mom going down in the next 2 arcs and then Kaido still being percieved as a huge threat 5 (irl) years down the line, when one of his equals has been dealt with… But I digress, feel free to continue with the main discussion
-
I always thought that Caesar giantification (is this even a word?) experiment were the only possible way for him to truly say that he has finally surpassed Vegapunk.
Also, It has been hinted quite a lot now that Momo is actually of high value and going by how the Strawhats also get mixed up with royalties from different Islands it also reinforces the theories about Momo being the next in line for the throne.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
I think you read it wrong there. What Doffy meant, in my view, was that he was holding the reigns of the monsters of the whole New World. He was, as Law had put it back in Punk Hazard, keeping up the former status quo; maintaining the balance of the Emperors and other pirate factions in the New World, while steadiy preparing for this final war. Now that he is gone, there is going to be no deterrent to Kaido (he doesn't seem the smart type, it seems that if Joker wasn't around he would have already started his war) or the others. The free-for-all with the One Piece at stake will begin. Which is why I think that the linear pattern we've been following since the beginning (excepting the Summit War arc) is going to end, more or less. Instead, we'll have smaller, but still importante skirmishes with the various factions (Marines, Big Mom, Kaido, other alliances), with the Emperors going down only very late in the story and in quick succession. That would make it so that when one of them goes down, we'll be close enough to the end of the series and things will move at a fast pace and the others will remain a threat for the remaining time. I can't imagine, for exemple, Big Mom going down in the next 2 arcs and then Kaido still being percieved as a huge threat 5 (irl) years down the line, when one of his equals has been dealt with… But I digress, feel free to continue with the main discussion
I think you're right. It also occurs to me that - regardless of what he means by holding the reigns (again, I think your interpretation is correct, but I actually think my interpretation isn't far from yours, just not worded as well :P) - Doffy's goal is to rule this new world.
Doffy has a two part goal: Change the world, and rule it. Now that he's out of the game, that second part can't happen. According to Austrolopithicus, that would have come about by him having an ancient weapon. However, but breaking the status quo and having Kaido run loose (clearly Kaido was waiting on Joker's go for the war), that first part of the goal can still happen. The throne wars will change the world, but being defeated it won't be Doffy who is on top in the new world.
This does, however, mean that changing the world - at least in Doffy's view - doesn't require an ancient weapon. However, him ruling over it likely does - he says as much to Law, when he says that if he had the Opi Opi No Mi he would have ruled the world that very day.
-
Thanks for bringing this scene up OP. I always thought the national treasure was hidden within the dressrosa, but my memories turned out to be a bit messy. I support the idea of the national treasure being Uranus. Well this would be a nice addition to my own theory…
-
I just wanted to acknowledge here that I was pretty well convinced by your response to me, Australopithecus. What especially helped was a reminder about the timeline; I had forgotten some of the sequencing of things.
Thank you, Ned.:happy:
@Ned_Gutters:Typically, I won't say much of anything if I think a theory is good, but I didn't want to pull a Darth and seem like I was just copping out cause I didn't want to admit you had addressed my concerns.
This seems like quite a bit of evidence, and makes a lot of sense.
I am sorry, but I didn’t understand the ‘darth’ part. It was jargon to me :P I hope I am not saying anything upsetting here or in any part of my text. This is the internet, and misunderstandings can easily happen.
One thing I'm wondering about now, though, is Doffy's recent claims, tantamount to: Now that I'm locked away - me, the person who held the chains on Kaido's monsters (as I read it) - the event I wanted to bring about should be happening any time now; this war, without me getting any sort of ancient weapon, is now very close to happening.
What do you make of this, that despite his failure to attain a weapon, he seems to think his goal of starting a war that will shake the world is about the be accomplished nonetheless?
I guess one possibility is that he knows Kaido will try to recapture him, but then again this seems contradicted by the claim that his absence - the absence of the person who holds the chains - is going to be a catalyst.
When Kaido made his appearance for the first time, he spoke about three things that appear to be connected because of their presence in the same paragraph: the termination of the preparations(that Doflamingo and Kaido were making for the war), the initiation of the greatest war, and the destruction of the world.
Because of destruction of the world’s presence in the same paragraph that revolves around war, I believe that it (the destruction of the world) is a part of their ‘war plan’.To destroy a world as vast as the One Piece world is not going to be done by ‘manpower’. The destruction of the world was said to able to be achieved through two things thus far: Whitebeard’s ‘Earthquake Ability’ and the ‘ancient weapons’. Whitebeard’s ability is in Blackbeard’s hands, and there is no connection between it and Doflamigo & Kaido’s plans.
So this leaves us with the national treasure that has the power to rule the world. To stand on top of a world as the ‘supreme ruler’ means that one was able to 'subjugate' the Grand Line. Since the national treasure has the ‘power’ to make this happen, that means it has the power to subjugate the Grand Line. A power that can subjugate the Grand Line so easily was shown only in the ancient weapons. I conclude from this that the national treasure then is an ancient weapon, and I showed in my theory how it is Uranus.(I apologize if this seems repetitious, but I wanted to talk about the subjugation aspect because I find it important.)
Since the destruction of the world appears to be part of their plan and Uranus is what can make that happen, Uranus must then be part of their plan.
Even without Joker, the war could still be happening. As I said before, I think Doflmaingo tempted him with what's inside Mariejois - Uranus. It must be what motivates him to wage this 'war'.
Uranus can help Kaido in a lot of ways. If he wants the world destroyed, it can destroy it for him. If he wants suicide, it can realize that for him.
Kaido's war for the weapon is not conflicting with Doflamingo's purpose of obtaining it. If Kaido desires the weapon for himself only, Doflamingo can use it on him and eliminate him the moment he reaches it. The moment Doflamingo reaches the weapon is the moment he will become 'supreme'. There are other possible scenarios as well.
@Ned_Gutters:P.S: I've actually already read the wikipedia on Austrolopithecus, because I wanted to put that Isaac Brock "song" in context; I do think it helped a bit :P
I didn’t know about that song. It was a bit of a surprise to me when you told me about it.
I inserted the link also for confirmation, in case you already knew about it. Australopithecus is theoretically said to be the ancestor of all humanity. I like the name because it represents an umbrella that unites under it all humans regardless of outward difference.I always thought that Caesar giantification (is this even a word?) experiment were the only possible way for him to truly say that he has finally surpassed Vegapunk.
'Giantification' is the noun form of the verb 'giantify', and it is indeed a reasonable word. You may not find it in the dictionary, but, according to my understanding, it appears to be a reasonable word.
Let me explain:
The word is comprised of two 'morphemes':
giant- and -ify. We know what giant means. The suffix -ify means "to make something be in a particular state or condition". When it is combined with 'giant' it means 'to make something be in a giant state or condition'.Also, It has been hinted quite a lot now that Momo is actually of high value and going by how the Strawhats also get mixed up with royalties from different Islands it also reinforces the theories about Momo being the next in line for the throne.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Now, that's something to be taken into one's consideration.
http://i.imgur.com/MhscwIO.jpg
Thanks for bringing this scene up OP. I always thought the national treasure was hidden within the dressrosa, but my memories turned out to be a bit messy.
It happens, especially when the translation is a mess.
I support the idea of the national treasure being Uranus. Well this would be a nice addition to my own theory…
Thanks!
-
Its either Uranus or something worse. The only thing they can have and not be as bad as the ancient weapons, is the government captured phone glyph vault. And that is not enough.
-
This post is deleted!
-
Am I the only one who believes Doula Mongo needed the Ope Ope to steal the national treasure??
Because well, the ope ope seems to be the ultimate thief's dream, you can open and close anything, even diamond and kairouseki.Monquito, I have already suggested something similiar in my post to Amigo.
If the treasure is Uranus or a thing that can defeat Poseidon and pluton, it won't be small enough to be pickpocketed.
Don't forget that Poseidon, an ancient weapon, is of a size that could be 'stolen'. Caribou tried to steal her using his muddy body. My point here is simply to not dismiss that possibility.
@S.C.:
One question, Australopithecus. Doflamingo seems to think that someone who has been given the Ope Ope no Mi's Eternal Youth Operation and with the National Treasure can conquer the world. In fact, it seems he thinks it is necessary in order to harness it. Do you have any ideas or opinions about this connection?
I have a scenario in my mind that I want to share here. What if Doflmaingo wanted to use the Ope Ope to lure a celestial dragon just as he used the Mera Mera to lure Luffy to the tournament. The World Government was willing to pay 5 billion berry for it, after all. It is tempting. Once the Celestial dragon is lured, he could make Corazon use the Ope Ope on the Celestial Dragon to extract his heart from his chest and use it to coerce the Celestial Dragon into agreeing to his schemes.
This method was seen to be very efficient against Caesar.
Now that I remember it, It was also shown in Pirates of the Caribbean, At World's End: the Government used Davy Jones' heart to coerce him into disposing of piracy.
-
While this had a couple of wrong things it was still very well developed and written. Great job! :)
-
Its either Uranus or something worse. The only thing they can have and not be as bad as the ancient weapons, is the government captured phone glyph vault. And that is not enough.
Poneglyph vault? What's that?
While this had a couple of wrong things it was still very well developed and written. Great job! :)
Thanks! It would helpful if you could point out these 'wrong things'.
-
Poneglyph vault? What's that?
Before wadatsumi moved his phoneglyph, we had no idea what the WG could be doing with them, but if he can move them, then anyone can. They did find Ohara's one, below the Tree of Knowledge, but after burning the island, leaving it there would have been.. dumb.
They must have a place where they store the phoneglyphs they capture.
-
Before wadatsumi moved his phoneglyph, we had no idea what the WG could be doing with them, but if he can move them, then anyone can. They did find Ohara's one, below the Tree of Knowledge, but after burning the island, leaving it there would have been.. dumb.
They must have a place where they store the phoneglyphs they capture.
Ah, I see. Thank you for this valuable information. Yes, that is possible.
-
I am sorry, but I didn’t understand the ‘darth’ part. It was jargon to me :P I hope I am not saying anything upsetting here or in any part of my text. This is the internet, and misunderstandings can easily happen.
Darth is a former forum-goer, who was banned (and subsequently banned on clone accounts). I actually quite enjoyed him, and thought he filled a useful purpose around here. However, he was known to argue all day and night, until the moment someone would give a convincing argument against him. Then he would disappear, or say he was too busy to respond, or what have you.
I didn't want to just disappear after you responded so adequately and thoughtfully to my concerns. I didn't want to "pull a Darth" :)
Also, thank you for the explanation of my latest question. It seems like I probably could have derived a lot of that by refreshing my memory of your original post, but thanks for taking time to write it up. I guess the concern is: Without Doflamingo, does Kaido still plan to get the ancient weapon? If not, then by what you say it seems to demotivate him for starting the war, if the goal of the war is destruction of the world/suicide at the hands of the ancient weapon. I think the possibilities are, (1) he thinks he can still get the weapon without Doflamingo, (2) he thinks he can get Doflamingo back (obviously he's trying!), (3) he thinks he can provoke the WG to use it against him (unlikely imo), or (4) his primary concern is his death and he thinks a great war even without the weapon might do the trick.
I guess I kind of answered my own question, though; it seems like he thinks he can get Doflamingo back, what with apparently sending Jack to recapture him.
-
Poneglyph vault? What's that?
Thanks! It would helpful if you could point out these 'wrong things'.
Oh yeah alright then:
Keep in mind this is just for constructive criticism. I'll tell you this things so you can learn about them :)
1. Kaido's "final battle" isn't actually a battle created by him. Now this may be due to the release of this theory, but that was a mistranslation by one of the scanalators (or even Viz themselves honestly). Kaido is referring to the big war that started with Doflamingo's speech in chapter 801. The war wasn't planned by them, in fact Joker wanted the war NOT to happen, as it would interrupt his schemes.
2. Now by "Destroy the world" I believe Doflamingo is referring to getting so much power that he becomes unstoppable (hence the perennial youth operation) so that he can "destroy all that the tenryuubito own". His main goal is to take revenge against the Celestial Dragons.
3. I think the reason why Doflamingo was laughing at Atmos was because of the speech he gives after, all about the "Shosha da kega seigida!" (Whoever wins will become justice) as it refers to his standing as a king in Dressrosa.
4. Monet said that he would become the pirate king but maybe that's an ultimate objective for Doflamingo once he takes revenge on the Tenryuubito. When you have the power to, why not rule the world? Still his first objective is to destroy the World Government.
5. Again, the war was not Joker's intention, he wanted to avoid it.
6. Great man is not referred to Joy Boy but to the man that will fulfill his promise (probably Luffy)
7. The reason why fishman are discriminated is not because of trying to take down the World Government, but because of racism. People are just racist by nature. Racist people usually don't hate for old historical facts, but because people are simply "different".To be fair, this is just me nitpicking to the extreme, you did an eccelent job :)
-
Lol Artur. Hmm this was rather a great read, but i agree with one person on why not move during marineford war? Joker is capable of swinging on Clouds, just like blackbeard was able to sneak out there were no obstacles to joker going while the war raged to accomplish his goals at marijoa. Considering Kaido himself was also on the move, they could have both gone to marijoa then even Cpo would not be a deterrent.
Counter mabe joker invited Kaido to escalate the marinford war into their own desired war with its outcome. And Shanks was that deterrent. I totally disagree on points made about momonosuke and that mink female. -
I totally disagree on points made about momonosuke and that mink female.
Before I post my answer to your previous question, I want to know what it is that you disagree about regarding Momo and the Mink girl because I have said a lot of things :P
-
Before I post my answer to your previous question, I want to know what it is that you disagree about regarding Momo and the Mink girl because I have said a lot of things :P
ohhh i believe it was along the lines of kaido using them for their potential battle prowness in that momonosuke is a warrior kid and the mink a zoan.
I think momonosuke case might fall better as his(kaido) way of getting his hand on the samurai in a way that over powering them won't do but that is dependent on momo being a royal. Im looking forward to your response to my previous question.
-
Darth is a former forum-goer, who was banned (and subsequently banned on clone accounts). I actually quite enjoyed him, and thought he filled a useful purpose around here. However, he was known to argue all day and night, until the moment someone would give a convincing argument against him. Then he would disappear, or say he was too busy to respond, or what have you.
I didn't want to just disappear after you responded so adequately and thoughtfully to my concerns. I didn't want to "pull a Darth" :)
Ah, I see. I really appreciate that :)
Also, thank you for the explanation of my latest question. It seems like I probably could have derived a lot of that by refreshing my memory of your original post, but thanks for taking time to write it up.
It was my pleasure, Mr Ned.:happy:
@Ned_Gutters:I guess the concern is: Without Doflamingo, does Kaido still plan to get the ancient weapon? If not, then by what you say it seems to demotivate him for starting the war, if the goal of the war is destruction of the world/suicide at the hands of the ancient weapon. I think the possibilities are, (1) he thinks he can still get the weapon without Doflamingo, (2) he thinks he can get Doflamingo back (obviously he's trying!), (3) he thinks he can provoke the WG to use it against him (unlikely imo), or (4) his primary concern is his death and he thinks a great war even without the weapon might do the trick.
I guess I kind of answered my own question, though; it seems like he thinks he can get Doflamingo back, what with apparently sending Jack to recapture him.
When Doflamingo was shown again in chapter 801, he said that he was holding the reins of the monsters in this world(we must keep in mind that Doflamingo was speaking vaguely in that chapter. Oda-sensei is very clever), and that they will come to regret it.
It's just like what Chrior said. That's what I think too. And I think that Doflamigo was talking about the chaos that will unfold from that.
Tsuru then asked him what would happen to the pirate world now,and he responded with a question about what would happen now that the monsters have no food source, implying (in my opinion) that they will run amok, and another about who stands atop the world now, implying (in my view) that the chaos that will unfold from the monsters' lack of food source is related to that (standing atop of the world) because of the questions' presence in the same paragraph.
He then listed some candidates with the potential of 'ruling the seas': one of the four emperors, one of the 7 warlords, or one of the supernovae.
He further added to that, as if he is reconsidering what he was saying, that it is perhaps the marines who rule the world; and he added to this the revolutionary army, as though he is comparing two opposing powers with the potential of ruling over the seas.
And then he added the "D clan" to this as though they should also be taken into consideration in this entire candidacy of who "rules the seas."
He then said that "the Celestial Dragons will be dragged from their thrones."
This entire discussion started about the chaos that would unfold from the monsters' lack of food source (Joker) and their struggle for "ruling the seas," and it appears that the struggle that leads to the emergence of the "ruler of this world" will directly drag the Celestial Dragons into it. Doflamingo was saying it with great certainty. It was like he was saying "mark my words".
He then continued his discussion, but this time it was about Gold Roger as the ruler of the Grand Line, and the emptiness of his throne and its meaning in the world.
And he concluded his entire response to Tsuru by mentioning the effect that follows from the emptiness of that throne: the Battle for Supremacy.
Kaido was cut off his food source(Joker), and he was set as a candidate among the rulers of the sea, and we know that he seeks war, and Doflamingo and Kaido's purpose from that war appears to be the weapon, and the Celestial Dragons are in hold of the weapon, and Doflamingo said that the Celestial Dragons will be dragged into the war of supremacy, which was strongly suggested to be tied to pirates more than the marines or the revolutionaries. I think that there is a strong chance of the war being intended to happen, even without Joker's presence because everything that Joker said will happen was strongly influenced by his absence.Joker's presence was delaying the happening of that war because he was making meticulous preparations for that war.
Oh yeah alright then:
Keep in mind this is just for constructive criticism. I'll tell you this things so you can learn about them :)! 1. Kaido's "final battle" isn't actually a battle created by him. Now this may be due to the release of this theory, but that was a mistranslation by one of the scanalators (or even Viz themselves honestly). Kaido is referring to the big war that started with Doflamingo's speech in chapter 801. The war wasn't planned by them, in fact Joker wanted the war NOT to happen, as it would interrupt his schemes.
2. Now by "Destroy the world" I believe Doflamingo is referring to getting so much power that he becomes unstoppable (hence the perennial youth operation) so that he can "destroy all that the tenryuubito own". His main goal is to take revenge against the Celestial Dragons.
3. I think the reason why Doflamingo was laughing at Atmos was because of the speech he gives after, all about the "Shosha da kega seigida!" (Whoever wins will become justice) as it refers to his standing as a king in Dressrosa.
4. Monet said that he would become the pirate king but maybe that's an ultimate objective for Doflamingo once he takes revenge on the Tenryuubito. When you have the power to, why not rule the world? Still his first objective is to destroy the World Government.
5. Again, the war was not Joker's intention, he wanted to avoid it.
6. Great man is not referred to Joy Boy but to the man that will fulfill his promise (probably Luffy)
7. The reason why fishman are discriminated is not because of trying to take down the World Government, but because of racism. People are just racist by nature. Racist people usually don't hate for old historical facts, but because people are simply "different".
To be fair, this is just me nitpicking to the extreme, you did an eccelent job :)Artur, thank you for telling me what you thought was wrong in the theory. I thought about what I should say to you so as to not say anything that might slightly bother you, and I reached the conclusion that I shouldn't say anything. But then again, doing so will leave you in the dark. So I will say this for your own sake. Read the theory again with hide tags open. Don't skim through it.
Lol Artur. Hmm this was rather a great read, but i agree with one person on why not move during marineford war? Joker is capable of swinging on Clouds, just like blackbeard was able to sneak out there were no obstacles to joker going while the war raged to accomplish his goals at marijoa. Considering Kaido himself was also on the move, they could have both gone to marijoa then even Cpo would not be a deterrent.
Counter mabe joker invited Kaido to escalate the marinford war into their own desired war with its outcome. And Shanks was that deterrent.First of all, I'd like to express my thanks. Thank you. It is good to know that my efforts of making a good theory haven't gone up in smoke.
Regarding the question about why Doflamingo did not invade Mariejois back at the War of the Summit, you have asked a good question.
One of the possible reasons why Doflamingo did not invade Mariejois two years ago was that there was the supreme military commander, Kong.
It is also possible that there is even the CP0 there because, after all, they are said to be under the direct command of the Celestial Dragons. We don't know for sure what the Government has at Mariejois.
They wouldn't leave Mariejois unguarded while the marines and Whitebeard are butting heads in the war. It would be unreasonable from them to leave it unguarded. That is one of the possible reasons why he couldn't have snuck at Mariejois.
However, if Doflamingo were to cause a war to happen at Mariejois, it wouldn't matter if they guard it or not. Everyone with fighting capabilities will be engaged in a battle with Kaido and his army.
That creates a weakness in their defense at Mariejois because their defense becomes their offense at war(just as the marines' defense became their offense at the war of the best), and Doflamigo is not the enemy at whom their offense should be focused. This gives him an opportunity to sneak to where Uranus is. While everyone is occupied with the fighting, Doflamingo can use that chance to reach Uranus, similar to how Law used a similar chance at Punk Hazard to reach the SAD.I saw this happen a couple of times during the war of the best:
Mr 3 snuck unnoticed to where Ace was because everyone was occupied by the war.
Blackbeard snuck to the scaffold(where Ace was held) while everyone was occupied by the fighting.
This particular weakness showed itself twice (as far as I remember) in that war.
Blackbeard did a lot of sneaking during that war, hahaha
We should keep in mind that Whitebeard could not choose where to wage his war; the Government forced him to fight at Marineford because they had Ace held there. The war with Kaido leaves Kaido with the choice of where to make it to happen.
ohhh i believe it was along the lines of kaido using them for their potential battle prowness in that momonosuke is a warrior kid and the mink a zoan.
I think momonosuke case might fall better as his(kaido) way of getting his hand on the samurai in a way that over powering them won't do but that is dependent on momo being a royal. Im looking forward to your response to my previous question.
Regarding the Mink girl, it is possible. I am not saying it is a fact. I am just saying that it is possible. Regarding Momo, it is highly unlikely that Kaido is seeking him as a soldier. Kaido appears to be the main antagonist of this saga, so something heinous like using children for war ought to be expected from him. After all, he traumatized Momo when he flew with him in the sky.
For more info. about this, use this link:
http://forums.arlongpark.net/showthread.php?t=43009
Using children for war reminds me of a movie called "Blood Diamond".
-
So why did Laffite sneak in so easily?
-
Something to add to this theory:
After Aokiji saved Smoker from Doflamingo, Smoker said that he must be connected to the underworld.
Being connected to underworld allows Aokiji to sniff out information that eludes the Government.
After conciliating Smoker that he is still the same person, he told him to be wary of Doflamingo. He was speaking of him as a 'threat' to Sakazuki and his new Marine HQ, and he told him to tell Sakazuki to "mobilize" the admirals because things could go from bad (which is what's happening) to worse (which is what is about to happen), and fast(without warning).
The way Aokiji spoke about the "mobilization" of the admirals was like a warning to make a preparation for war, and a war that could happen without warning.It appears Aokiji caught a whiff of the war that Kaido and Doflamingo intend to wage.
So why did Laffite sneak in so easily?
Did Laffite sneak to where the national treasure is? No. Yes, Doflamingo can sneak to Mariejois, but can he accomplish his purpose of reaching the national treasure? I don't think so, especially with such military might in Mariejois.
-
Kaido mentioned destroying the boring world they live him. Pretty much he plans to go against the Tenryubito and the original plan would involve take this opportunity to rule Mariejoa. Everything that was said is hypotetical but very accurate.
I am well aware of this, as evidenced by my theory of the national treasure. Regardless, this doesn't answer my questions (how Kaido would destroy the world for Doflamingo and how this would make Doflamingo 'rule the world'). I theorized that to destroy the world, one would need either the power of the Earthquake Fruit or an ancient weapon. The Earthquake Fruit is in the grasp of Teach, so that rules it out. There remains an ancient weapon(Uranus), and that was my theory concerning the 'cause' of this apocalypse. It's really plain simple deductive reasoning that I used there.
What was said by my interlocutor was that Kaido was manipulated by Doflamingo in order to destroy the world for him. For that to happen, Kaido would need an ancient weapon (plain and simple), but if he got his hands on it, this wouldn't make Doflamingo the ruler of the world.
-
I don't know how i missed this thread but great job, Australopithecus! I always thought the national treasure was just an actual treasure that was important to the Government but i never thought about connecting it to the weapon. Also i knew that Doflamingo's role in the story wasn't finished but couldn't quite put the finger on what he will do in the future, but this theory contextualizes both what Kaidou said about preparing for war, and where Doffy's overarching goal lies.
-
I don't know how i missed this thread but great job, Australopithecus! I always thought the national treasure was just an actual treasure that was important to the Government but i never thought about connecting it to the weapon. Also i knew that Doflamingo's role in the story wasn't finished but couldn't quite put the finger on what he will do in the future, but this theory contextualizes both what Kaidou said about preparing for war, and where Doffy's overarching goal lies.
Thank you, HeartOfDarkness. You know, the 'wave' that Doflamingo spoke of and said it will sweep away all the inferior pirates was something that resurfaced in the Dressrosa arc.
http://read.powermanga.org/read/one_piece_digital_colour_comics/en/0/71/page/106
It was never explained, but I am sure it will be officially explained in the Kaido arc. I plan to talk about this in greater detail sometime in the future. -
Thank you, HeartOfDarkness. You know, the 'wave' that Doflamingo spoke of and said it will sweep away all the inferior pirates was something that resurfaced in the Dressrosa arc.
http://read.powermanga.org/read/one_piece_digital_colour_comics/en/0/71/page/106
It was never explained, but I am sure it will be officially explained in the Kaido arc. I plan to talk about this in greater detail sometime in the future.Nice catch! And yea i am definitely looking forward to eventual revelation of the bigger picture.
Keep up the awesome work!
-
This theory seems interesting to me.
-
Thank you, HeartOfDarkness. You know, the 'wave' that Doflamingo spoke of and said it will sweep away all the inferior pirates was something that resurfaced in the Dressrosa arc.
http://read.powermanga.org/read/one_piece_digital_colour_comics/en/0/71/page/106
It was never explained, but I am sure it will be officially explained in the Kaido arc. I plan to talk about this in greater detail sometime in the future.Has any body brought up the fact roger also had supposedly an ancient weapon, so if poseeidon and pluton are both accounted for would'nt that mean uranus is what roger found?
which means the World government has none in their pocession, well atleast out of those three, there is no reason to think that only those three are as destructive, plus the genius of vegapunk and the human weapons should suggest the enormous potential the WG has for very destructive weapons. But also their is no definitive proof that the treasure is a weapon, and even if a war took place at marijoa, , will the world government really not have the capability to secure and evade the important things and people like at matineford? And would the world beaters really not be able to detect and track someone like joker?
In the end their is one major difference to what blackbeard did at marineford and what you think joker wanted to do at marijoa. can you guess?
-
Luffy: "I don't have any more treasure to give you, but I heard the national treasure is Uranus!"
Big Mom: "Well when you put it that way, cutie… want to go on a treasure dig?" -
Luffy: "I don't have any more treasure to give you, but I heard the national treasure is Uranus!"
Big Mom: "Well when you put it that way, cutie… want to go on a treasure dig?"Oh thats dirty. :wassat:
-
Has any body brought up the fact roger also had supposedly an ancient weapon, so if poseeidon and pluton are both accounted for would'nt that mean uranus is what roger found?
which means the World government has none in their pocession, well atleast out of those three, there is no reason to think that only those three are as destructive, plus the genius of vegapunk and the human weapons should suggest the enormous potential the WG has for very destructive weapons. But also their is no definitive proof that the treasure is a weapon, and even if a war took place at marijoa, , will the world government really not have the capability to secure and evade the important things and people like at matineford? And would the world beaters really not be able to detect and track someone like joker?
In the end their is one major difference to what blackbeard did at marineford and what you think joker wanted to do at marijoa. can you guess?
If you are referring to what was said in Strong World by Shiki - then all he actually stated was that Roger had found it and knew of its location. Perhaps it was referring to Poseidon given he was at Sky Island and that exact Poenglyph that Robin also read revealing the location. Though at that time, Shirahoshi wasn't even born yet so…
-
Oh thats dirty. :wassat:
Well it's also an ancient weapon, and Luffy has a knack for eagerly getting himself into deep shit…
(I know, I'm terrible) -
If you are referring to what was said in Strong World by Shiki - then all he actually stated was that Roger had found it and knew of its location. Perhaps it was referring to Poseidon given he was at Sky Island and that exact Poenglyph that Robin also read revealing the location. Though at that time, Shirahoshi wasn't even born yet so…
exactly the mermaid princess has not been in existence for a while, and shiki outright said with the weapon Roger found and his armada they could rule the world, would that be possible if the weapon was in the world government hands?
Roger: hey you bitches, came to pick up my weapon, it better have been cleaned properly… not a hint of dust. tell Garp i said hello.
Grosei: It has been our pleasure. we will tell garp you passed by. Well come back any time, no worries the weapon is sparkling Mr pirate king, please return soon.
-
exactly the mermaid princess has not been in existence for a while, and shiki outright said with the weapon Roger found and his armada they could rule the world, would that be possible if the weapon was in the world government hands?
Hm…I see, I see. I was asked a similar question months ago by someone on another forum.
Before I get to the main part of this argument, let me remind you of something:
Back at Skypea, Robin found a poneglyph that tells about the location of 'Poseidon'. That very poneglyph had Roger's name on it. Since Roger was able to use those symbols through his ability of hearing the voice of all things, he must have read about Poseidon from that poneglyph.
Now, the main part of this argument:
When Shiki was talking to Roger about the weapon, he said that Roger knows the 'location' of the weapon, but NOT that he acquired it.