Ceasar will be the strawhat prisoner until the end of the story. In the final arc he will fight Sengoku's goat.
Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)
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Luffy himself opposes the authority figure of the world government. Freed loads of dangerous criminals from Impel down.
Luffy was going to kill zoro, (his words) over zoro knocking out the whiskey peak bounty hunters. Where he only ever tells villain's he'll kick their ass.
Luffy also believed he was stealing gold from the Shandorans on skypiea which he loved the idea of.
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You are right. Sorry
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Luffy was going to take Zoro's head for a misunderstanding but he will forgive Ceasar who is a real demon :wassat:
LOL on second thought maybe I shouldn't join this debate. -
But the whole idea of past doesn't matter, just a few chapters ago Sabo told burgess he had no grudge on what happened to ace.
Have I won?
also on questionable SH morals, Zoro would have happily left smoker to drown.
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Do you really think so ?
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Luffy himself doesn't care about the past of people in his crew. case and point Nami's backstory.
He cares about their actions in the present. Whether they're a good person or not is what matters to him.
Meanwhile, Caesar is in no way a good person, nor could he ever be.
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Do I really think Zoro would have left smoker? yes if not, what was the purpose in having it explained that Zoro was ordered to.
Do I think Sabo is telling the truth? yes he has no reason to lie.
How do you know Caesar could never be good? Crocodile isn't straight up villain anymore when he was down right despicable. and unlike Doflamingo who seems to care for his family, crocodile didn't care about his numbered men.
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Luffy himself opposes the authority figure of the world government. Freed loads of dangerous criminals from Impel down.
The World Government are not the good guys at all (at least not in their current iteration), so of course he opposes them.
That's one negative side effect of Luffy's impulses, but he definitely wasn't freeing those dangerous prisoners on purpose. His entire mission to Impel Down was to rescue his brother.
Luffy was going to kill zoro, (his words) over zoro knocking out the whiskey peak bounty hunters. Where he only ever tells villain's he'll kick their ass.
Luffy also believed he was stealing gold from the Shandorans on skypiea which he loved the idea of.
Both of these scenes were clearly comic relief.
Stop trying to justify the actions of a sadistic child poisoner by using characters with much lesser negative traits.
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Although Luffy appeared comical because he was bloated during the fight, as luffy told Arlong, he's always serious when he fights. and he's shown to not engage in fights unless they are meaningful. Shown by him letting Bellamy beat him up.
What why should I stop Justifying my argument with examples?
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Although Luffy appeared comical because he was bloated during the fight, as luffy told Arlong, he's always serious when he fights. and he's shown to not engage in fights unless they are meaningful. Shown by him letting Bellamy beat him up.
No, it was actually just comic relief in general. That's why at the end it's played off as "Oh, it was just a misunderstanding. How silly, you should've just told me!"
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Do I really think Zoro would have left smoker? yes if not, what was the purpose in having it explained that Zoro was ordered to.
To develop the Luffy/Smoker dynamic.
Smoker: "why ?"
Luffy: "Because I don't dislike you! Shishishi!"The alternative could have been something like:
Smoker: "Why ?"
Zoro: "a soldier should die on the battlefield"
I don't see Zoro letting a man die like this. Besides they would have died if Smoker had not identified the Bananawani with the key. -
Played off as comic relief at the conclusion, but Luffy was genuinely enraged.
also the zoro thing is here.
http://mangafox.me/manga/one_piece/v19/c176/9.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/one_piece/v19/c176/10.html
Zoro saw him as the enemy and didn't care.
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What why should I stop Justifying my argument with examples?
Because your "examples" are fallacious mis-interpretations. You confuse apathy with sadism, take everything said overly literally and claim to know what characters are thinking.
In short, you're shoving more manure than an american politician.
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I think that Doflamingo's gonna join. I mean, he tried to slaughter an entire country, forced the king to abdicate the throne, wiped people out of existence, killed his brother and father, participated in slave trade, supported the poisoning of children, was an underworld broker, but, you know, nothing that can't be redeemed! Who knows what's gonna happen anyway!? You know Oda, he's just so unpredictable!
Holy fuck, I can't believe this is actually a topic of discussion.
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Right Sadism would bring us back to Franky, rather than simply have his goons chuck usopp out of his building he literally wrecks the guy so that he's bandaged from head to toe even though he's well aware of how weak the guy is.
And American politics, geez. I go for UK politics.
Also we have to look at Luffy showing concern for Dagama who was going to quite happily betray and kill usopp for money. (he' a great judge of character)
and don't go saying Dofla can't be redeemed. Chances are Luffy will ally with Moriah to take down Kaidou. and Moriah and his men were scum. (and wow Perona was redeemed).
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You are still going with this lol.
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Played off as comic relief at the conclusion, but Luffy was genuinely enraged.
also the zoro thing is here.
http://mangafox.me/manga/one_piece/v19/c176/9.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/one_piece/v19/c176/10.html
Zoro saw him as the enemy and didn't care.
It was a cool dialogue. That's it. You can't seriously argue that one of the strawhat has absolutely no respect for human life.
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Just wait until Vegapunk is introduced and revealed to be far more evil than Caesar, then we get the flashback.
Zoro doesn't have zero respect for human life, but he sees this man as an enemy and wouldn't save him. he would to civillians or other people.
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Because a man who artificially creates dragons is going to be a good guy right?
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How is the artificial creation of dragon a bad thing ? :wassat:
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Have you even seen jurrasic park? Plus this man happily creates loads of dangerous things. Malfunctioning Pacifista's could be a nightmare for civillians.
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"The Nazis only killed 11 million people in the Holocaust. But the Mongols killed at least 40 million during their conquest! The Nazi's weren't so bad!"
-Literally you
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Have you even seen jurrasic park? Plus this man happily creates loads of dangerous things. Malfunctioning Pacifista's could be a nightmare for civillians.
LoL good point. But it's more foolishness than evilness
Maybe he wanted to please his grandson who is a big fan of the color green, sled dogs and How To Train You Dragon :ninja: -
Just wait until Vegapunk is introduced and revealed to be far more evil than Caesar, then we get the flashback.
We've already met Vegapunk (shadowed, but he still was actually there). He didn't approve of Caesar's evil experiments at all.
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We already had the Nazi logic, I argued that despite Hitler and the Nazi's being evil, there have been more evil people in history.
If we look at Caesar's flashback we know that Vegapunk was looking into the human enlargement experiment first. and Caesar is building these weapons to rid the world of pirates. He says world peace is the calm which comes after the storm.
Essentially Vegapunk firing Caesar cost him his sanity and made him fall in with the wrong crowd. He was only trying to make the kids giant as he wanted to finish Vegapunks experiment before him.
All it would take is one more flashback to reveal that Vegapunk actually fired Caesar because he was actually a lil jealous that the guy might be a brilliant scientist.
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If we look at Caesar's flashback we know that Vegapunk was looking into the human enlargement experiment first. and Caesar is building these weapons to rid the world of pirates. He says world peace is the calm which comes after the storm.
I'm not sure how you can believe that Caesar was serious with his statement. He's a sadistic scientist using that as a reason to build weapons that will kill innocent civilians.
And Vegapunk was trying to do the human enlargement, but he wasn't testing the formula out by kidnapping little kids and poisoning them.
Essentially Vegapunk firing Caesar cost him his sanity and made him fall in with the wrong crowd. He was only trying to make the kids giant as he wanted to finish Vegapunks experiment before him.
Yeah, these are definitely the words of a "sane" man.
If you can't see that he's using "world peace" as a way to fuel his own sadistic desires (a very common thing in fiction and real life), then I don't know what to tell you.
It's just like Spandam, who told the Gorosei he was trying to acquire Pluton for that very reason. His actual desire was to see the world in a war because of it.
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So we have Caesar confirm him and Vegapunk experiment on Prisoners and that vegapunk treats them poorly…...... Experimenting on prisoners the actions of a hero. Vegapunk was leading the human growth project initially. what he is doing is no different to Caesar experimenting.
At least Caesar gave the kids a loving environment with toys and someone like Monet to look after them who weirdly seemed to care for them.
If it was war for the sake of it, Caesar wouldn't need Akainu's interest. I believe he genuinely wanted to rid the world of pirates in the past.
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So we have Caesar confirm him and Vegapunk experiment on Prisoners…......
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make?
Caesar is a terrible person, yes. The negative qualities that Vegapunk may have do not outweigh Caesar's at all though.
There is no logic in saying "but Vegapunk did it too, so Caesar isn't so bad!" They're both equally guilty, but Caesar has been shown to have way worse moral values.
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See my last post, Caesar didn't treat them poorly, Vegapunk treated these people like human trash.
The thing with Vegapunk is that he also has done some decent stuff like granting Kuma his last wish. So the idea is we start with Vegapunk who looks like a good guy and he's slowly developed as evil, whilst Caesar will be developed into a hero.
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At least Caesar gave the kids a loving environment with toys and someone like Monet to look after them who weirdly seemed to care for them.
Oh wow.
So you realize that the Biscuits Room and the nice environment was all a ploy in order to make them feel safe, right? In reality, they were being killed from the inside. How nice of him to make their place of death so pleasant.
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He didn't care about them at all besides their use to his sadistic expiriments.
And yeah, Monet is so caring. She cares enough about them to contribute to poisoning them too, and enough to try to blow them all up.
If it was war for the sake of it, Caesar wouldn't need Akainu's interest. I believe he genuinely wanted to rid the world of pirates in the past.
Uh yes, he needs the interest of someone who would help distribute his weapons.
That's the only way they're going to be used in a wide scale.
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Hitler was actually a nice guy. /s
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The thing with Vegapunk is that he also has done some decent stuff like granting Kuma his last wish. So the idea is we start with Vegapunk who looks like a good guy and he's slowly developed as evil, whilst Caesar will be developed into a hero.
Vegapunk is being developed as ambiguous. He's been shown doing a lot of good things… and some not so good things. I'm sure he wants to help people with his inventions and research (as seen on his home island), but with the organization he works for, some questionable stuff is inevitable.
Meanwhile, Caesar has just been cartoonishly evil ever since his introduction, with no ambiguity to his actions or motives. All he wants is for the world to be in chaos.
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Okay I concede on him needing Akainu's pull in the marines to distribute his weapons.
And how reliable is Momunuske here? he's starving and freaking out from being a dragon. Isn't there a chance he misheard.
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And how reliable is Momunuske here? he's starving and freaking out from being a dragon. Isn't there a chance he misheard.
Pretty reliable. If Oda was going for misheard dialogue, it would've been much more apparent. It wouldn't make any sense to depict it that way either.
And Caesar talks about the kids this way earlier in the arc as well. The flashback I linked was just to help stem Momonosuke's dislike of him (and tell us how long the kids had left).
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This is you right now about Caesar.
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So we can trust Momo's words but we can't discuss Caesar's frank conversation with his colleague?
Caesar stated he wanted world peace, why would he lie in that statement when everything else he states that argument with Vegapunk appears to be factual. I have faith in Oda.
Saying a person can't be redeemed based on their past actions in Anime is silly. Dragonball turned Buu and Beerus into protagonists from antagonistic roles. Oda is a better story teller thank Akira Toriyama and has the skill to redeem a villain effectively.
Smiley all I see in a video there is somebody sticking to his convictions and refusing to kill someone, that boy seems rather noble.
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So we can trust Momo's words but we can't discuss Caesar's frank conversation with his colleague?
Caesar stated he wanted world peace, why would he lie in that statement when everything else he states that argument with Vegapunk appears to be factual. I have faith in Oda.
Saying a person can't be redeemed based on their past actions in Anime is silly. Dragonball turned Buu and Beerus into protagonists from antagonistic roles. Oda is a better story teller thank Akira Toriyama and has the skill to redeem a villain effectively.
Just like Friezza, Cell and Babidi were redemed, right… oh wait they weren't because they pure evil just like Caesar.
I want to believe too big guy3ds code friend:0404-6254-1866new "new"3ds code friend:0791-4253-7110 (monster hunter)
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Not every villain is redeemed you are correct. That's why I'm not counting on the likes of Hody being redeemed. All I'm saying is some villains can be redeemed.
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Caesar stated he wanted world peace, why would he lie in that statement when everything else he states that argument with Vegapunk appears to be factual. I have faith in Oda.
Why wouldn't he lie to the people questioning him about the "morality" of his experiments?
It's a scenario where he justifies the sadistic nature of his experiments with ideas of world peace, as I've said already.
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Upon the repeated invocation of Hitler, I think its time for this awful awful thread to rest for a while.
It'll reopen eventually cause this nonsense has to go somewhere.
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There. Hopefully with the latest chapter this nonsense can settle some… and help soothe future discussions with a little bit of sense.
"Fun character" no longer has to be twisted and turned to be next nakama" when they can just be a part of the Luffy navy instead.
As some of us have been saying about Bart and Cavendish for some time now.
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I just realized they can just give Caesar to one of their presumed recent allies to keep an eye on. Barto would be the best choice.
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I just realized they can just give Caesar to one of their presumed recent allies to keep an eye on. Barto would be the best choice.
I think Law would be the only real possibility. Caesar is really strong.
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I dunno, I kind of hope Buggy's crew serves to collect all of Luffy's past enemies which are neutralized threats…..I guess Caeasar is too actively dangerous to serve under Buggy though. Really, he's only absorbed Alvida and Mr. 3 so far and neither was all that dangerous individually.
