so i guess everybody who fights in this manga is immoral.
aghr!
How are those two even comparable, for crying out loud!?
so i guess everybody who fights in this manga is immoral.
aghr!
How are those two even comparable, for crying out loud!?
Time out. What does it matter concerning my original point?
My understanding is that you feel little manipulation has been shown. I pointed out where it had been shown, you came back with "was little of it. Especially towards the fact that Doflamingo and his methods get one hundred percent approval rating among citizens that are not toys." I took that to mean you felt there wasn't a lot of active manipulation by Doflamingo in the present, which I replied that he doesn't need to do a lot of active work now that he's already got a lot of it set up. In particular to the high approval rating, Doflamingo has not, as far as Dressrosa's people know, acted outside of the heroic image they've built up for him; or at least not far enough out that they would suspect much. And you said it yourself, the people who don't approve are the ones currently toys, which is where Sugar comes in.
I am correct because of decades of discussion on morality, law, and common sense, you clown.
And somehow half of those discussions happened here.
Well, he did make Dressrosa wealthy and prosperous.
So did Adolf Hitler to Germany, but you are not defending him, are you?
Do… you even know what morality is?
Do you know what morality is ?
Morality is not universal and it can change depending on the culture , times , era , beliefs ,religion etc etc.
My understanding is that you feel little manipulation has been shown. I pointed out where it had been shown, you came back with "was little of it. Especially towards the fact that Doflamingo and his methods get one hundred percent approval rating among citizens that are not toys." I took that to mean you felt there wasn't a lot of active manipulation by Doflamingo in the present, which I replied that he doesn't need to do a lot of active work now that he's already got a lot of it set up. In particular to the high approval rating, Doflamingo has not, as far as Dressrosa's people know, acted outside of the heroic image they've built up for him; or at least not far enough out that they would suspect much. And you said it yourself, the people who don't approve are the ones currently toys, which is where Sugar comes in.
Ah, there has been misunderstanding. My point was that there wasn't enough of manipulation on Doflamingo's part to completly absolve citizens from moral guilt in supporting his methods.
Someone's gonna get banned-hammered quite soon(and again).
Do you know what morality is ?
Morality is not universal and it can change depending on the culture , times , era , beliefs ,religion etc etc.
I do. And morality not being universal is not something one can use to justify immoral behaviour.
Consider: It was morally acceptable for Nazi's to perpetrate Holocaust. Do you absolve them of their guilt because of it?
Ah, there has been misunderstanding. My point was that there wasn't enough of manipulation on Doflamingo's part to completly absolve citizens from moral guilt in supporting his methods.
Ah. Maybe, maybe not. I don't feel strongly on the Dressrosa citizenry either way beyond noting some hypocrisy in their actions. Still, manipulation and frequent mindwiping ("frequent" determined by just how many toys we saw in Dressrosa) can at least be considered a mitigating factor.
Someone's gonna get banned-hammered quite soon(and again).
Not again.
Though I'm starting to slowly suspect that this community is filled with horrible people, if the real world counter-arguments I heard today are anything to go by.
aghr!
How are those two even comparable, for crying out loud!?
It's a Shonen manga, where most stuff is solved by punching the crap out of things.
Luffy is not against the Colosseum, as well as Zoro, Sanji, Kin'emon, Franky and the Colosseum guys who were participating and helped save the country. Are all those guys immoral?
Ah, there has been misunderstanding. My point was that there wasn't enough of manipulation on Doflamingo's part to completly absolve citizens from moral guilt in supporting his methods.
What methods ?
They only supported the methods they knew about. Duh!
i.e. Doffy being a kind and honest king. They didn't support anything else you clone.
So did Adolf Hitler to Germany, but you are not defending him, are you?
I'd have followed Adolf if it meant having freedom, power and wealth without repercussions while helping seal my safety under their protection, rather than being opposed to him and lose my safety if that situation had occured.
I am correct because of decades of discussion on morality, law, and common sense, you clown.
And you are reported for blatant flaming.
Who is more moral? The man who forgives his daughters rapist, and he goes on to rape someone else? Or the man who kills his daughters rapist, preventing anyone from ever being victimized again?
Who is more moral? The man who euthanizes his ailing father, who was begging to be allowed to die? Or the man who forces him to live against his will in pain?
Who is more moral? The man who is fine with two consenting adults doing whatever they want, even if they endanger themselves. Or the man who wants to control what others do for "Their own good".
Is revenge moral?
You are the one, darth, who is flaming, not I; you who is insisting they are correct, and reporting others when they call you out.
Well, I guess Doflamingo may not be down after all. Well at least we don't know for sure yet, I still think he's down just concious. Next chapter should end everything, birdcage, the fight, Doflamingo etc. I liked the fight though, also liked Riku's speech.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Damn it Darth is going back to his Darthy ways, do we really have to wait until April 1st again?
It's a Shonen manga, where most stuff is solved by punching the crap out of things.
Luffy is not against the Colosseum, as well as Zoro, Sanji, Kin'emon, Franky and the Colosseum guys who were participating and helped save the country.
Really? I don't recall him approving of citizens behaviour nor of fights being to death, or mutilation.
And there is a difference between fighting obviously evil people, and approving of citizens and random people killing each other for entertainment value.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
What methods ?
They only supported the methods they knew about. Duh!
i.e. Doffy being a kind and honest king. They didn't support anything else you clone.
Like putting people in the gladatioral pits to kill one another, got it.
I do. And morality not being universal is not something one can use to justify immoral behaviour.
Consider: It was morally acceptable for Nazi's to perpetrate Holocaust. Do you absolve them of their guilt because of it?
Yes, that is why so many people were acquitted in the Nuremberg trials. The argument was that the government was elected by the people, therefore you cannot punish specific people in the government for doing what they were elected to do, otherwise you would be condemning the entire populace of the country. Thus they only punished the very highest officers who made the calls, not those who carried the orders out, or any of the bureaucrats.
I do. And morality not being universal is not something one can use to justify immoral behaviour.
Consider: It was morally acceptable for Nazi's to perpetrate Holocaust. Do you absolve them of their guilt because of it?
That is true but you thinking liking a blood sport immoral don't make it so .
We have a religion that think eating pork is immoral don't make it so ( no offense to anyone)
Point being some things for Morality are not universal so don't apply your rules for everyone.
how on earth are some of you defending blood sport? like in the case of the citizens i kinda feel for them in the case of the gladiators since they watched them kill family members n such. but still its not justice they care about if there is the chance for freedom.
Maybe, maybe not. It's not a legally binding contract or anything like that. We've been mislead before.
Would be an extremely shitty way of ending the fight, especially after Dofla uncovering his Awakening which amounted to NOTHING. If this was Bleach, I'd expect anything, but not here. Dofla isn't defeated yet.
On another note, Franky seemed to be looking up when he realized what Zoro meant. Since they came to sea stone factory, maybe it's as simple as using it as a shield while holding strings back through physical force. They're going to push it, in short.
Another solution could be cutting away the sea stone part and throwing it to the tip of the cage. It would be like throwing a wrench in the gears. The cage couldn't move because the factory would be in the way. And the factory wouldn't fall because the cage is holding it in place while trying to constrict.
It would be sudden but Luffy said himself that time was running out and he needed to end it, perhaps he did.
I just want a final resolution, alas we may not get to see Doffy's eyes after all.
Who is more moral? The man who forgives his daughters rapist, and he goes on to rape someone else? Or the man who kills his daughters rapist, preventing anyone from ever being victimized again?
Who is more moral? The man who euthanizes his ailing father, who was begging to be allowed to die? Or the man who forces him to live against his will in pain?
Who is more moral? The man who is fine with two consenting adults doing whatever they want, even if they endanger themselves. Or the man who wants to control what others do for "Their own good".
Is revenge moral?
You are the one, darth, who is flaming, not I; you who is insisting they are correct, and reporting others when they call you out.
A) The man who reports him to proper authorities. Though from utilitarian point of view, it might be more moral to kill him.
B) … That one is tricky, because there are arguments to be made for both sides.
C) This one as well.
D) Revenge is not moral.
E) None of the above examples have any bearing on the discussion of you trying to justify supporting blood sports as somehow being morally acceptable.
Really? I don't recall him approving of citizens behaviour nor of fights being to death, or mutilation.
And there is a difference between fighting obviously evil people, and approving of citizens and random people killing each other for entertainment value.
Irrelevant considering blood sports are considered bad because they're overall violent regardless of lethality. Luffy was all excited when he entered the Colosseum, if you recall.
The little girl who helps the granny looks like Lamy.
Lol, nobody takes Burguess serious.
A) The man who reports him to proper authorities. Though from utilitarian point of view, it might be more moral to kill him.
B) … That one is tricky, because there are arguments to be made for both sides.
C) This one as well.
D) Revenge is not moral.
E) None of the above examples have any bearing on the discussion of you trying to justify supporting blood sports as somehow being morally acceptable.
So you admit that there are situation were morality is not black and white? Then why are you so sure that there is no question to the morality of blood sports?
they shouldn't applaud before he hasn't fallen flat on the ground… as long as he is moving the cage will do so either..
(gosh, I want to see that fight animated)
Irrelevant considering blood sports are considered bad because they're overall violent regardless of lethality. Luffy was all excited when he entered the Colosseum, if you recall.
Well yeah he's a cartoon character.
Well yeah he's a cartoon character.
And so are the Dressrosians.
I'm against blood sports myself, but those are fictional characters in a fictional universe where fighting is considered more acceptable.
how on earth are some of you defending blood sport? like in the case of the citizens i kinda feel for them in the case of the gladiators since they watched them kill family members n such. but still its not justice they care about if there is the chance for freedom.
Was there still chance of freedom under don rules ?
We know that he to turn gladiators into toys while leaving some other members of riku army so people can hate them.
That is true but you thinking liking a blood sport immoral don't make it so .
We have a religion that think eating pork is immoral don't make it so ( no offense to anyone)
Point being some things for Morality are not universal so don't apply your rules for everyone.
This is not "Me thinking". Ending human life for entertaiment, or crippling humans for entertaiment would be considered immoral by nearly everybody.
I do not question that morality is not universal, but there are borders for that.
So Gear 4 is nightmare fuel.
So you admit that there are situation were morality is not black and white? Then why are you so sure that there is no question to the morality of blood sports?
Sigh because there are no proper justification for it.
Okay, I will ask you this: Defend the stance that the blood sports are somehow, somehow morally good. Give arguments. Prove your point. And I will prove to you that you are wrong, because you have chosen the wrong thing to defend.
There is no morality to be found there. There is no justification for you approving of it.
Chapter feels pretty great.
Bit of a shame I cant look at original print having it in my hands now.
Next week I guess that Luffy wont be able to use haki and gear 4th will out of picture.
I guess that it might not be very risky in the end for Luffy - I expect him looking like old guy or baloon that is out of air but I also guess that as we seen Luffy suffering from "costs" of using gears before, it is very likely that we will see him using aftereffect of gear 4th in some way.
Sure he will loose his firepower but we might get to see him being very dangerous even without it, fight is not over but I guess that next 2 chapter will bring closure to Doflamingo vs Luffy and also Sabo saving Luffy from Jesus "Burglares".
Edit: While re-reading my post I see that I guess a lot
Irrelevant considering blood sports are considered bad because they're overall violent regardless of lethality. Luffy was all excited when he entered the Colosseum, if you recall.
Not irrelevant, because intention is important when it comes to moral evaluation of the actions.
The little girl who helps the granny looks like Lamy.
Lol, nobody takes Burguess serious.
It's extremely hard to take him seriously, have you seen how tiny his legs are.
This is not "Me thinking". Ending human life for entertaiment, or crippling humans for entertaiment would be considered immoral by nearly everybody.
I do not question that morality is not universal, but there are borders for that.
Sigh because there are no proper justification for it.
Okay, I will ask you this: Defend the stance that the blood sports are somehow, somehow morally good. Give arguments. Prove your point. And I will prove to you that you are wrong, because you have chosen the wrong thing to defend.
There is no morality to be found there. There is no justification for you approving of it.
If everyone agreed that a persons life should be ended, say for examples, Hitlers. Why would it matter that you put him in a coliseum with a bunch of lions and let people watch? It would allow catharsis for the victims family's, and entertainment for all. What would be the moral downside to executing someone by lion coliseum?
This is not "Me thinking". Ending human life for entertaiment, or crippling humans for entertaiment would be considered immoral by nearly everybody.
I do not question that morality is not universal, but there are borders for that.
Ending human life yes , crippling them is whole other ball game.
I bet i can ask 10 people if boxing immoral and most would answer no .
This is not "Me thinking". Ending human life for entertaiment, or crippling humans for entertaiment would be considered immoral by nearly everybody.
I do not question that morality is not universal, but there are borders for that.
Well, the One Piece world does encourage fighting and being strong, so maybe some people enjoying blood sports shouldn't be considered a big deal (it's probably part of their culture). Also, it's not like the entire population was in that Colosseum or that they all like it.
Yes, that is why so many people were acquitted in the Nuremberg trials. The argument was that the government was elected by the people, therefore you cannot punish specific people in the government for doing what they were elected to do, otherwise you would be condemning the entire populace of the country. Thus they only punished the very highest officers who made the calls, not those who carried the orders out, or any of the bureaucrats.
Except they did. Not in Nuremberg, correct, but there were plenty specific people serving on specific posts, both those who carried the orders and bureaucrats, sentenced in later trials.
At least do your research first, please.
Except they did. Not in Nuremberg, correct, but there were plenty specific people serving on specific posts, both those who carried the orders and bureaucrats, sentenced in later trials.
At least do your research first, please.
Officers =/= elected.
Later trials were farces carried out by specific country's, for revenge, not by the world court.
What ever Burguess is planing to do with Luffy will end if failure LOL. Does he not know how many powerful allies Luffy has on the island right now. Poor Burguess just wasn't his arc to shine in.
If everyone agreed that a persons life should be ended, say for examples, Hitlers. Why would it matter that you put him in a coliseum with a bunch of lions and let people watch? It would allow catharsis for the victims family's, and entertainment for all. What would be the moral downside to executing someone by lion coliseum?
You are reminding me of George Carlin's routine on Death Penalty. Man, that was hillarious.
Anyways, because even if we agree on necessity of death penalty, not an easy feat in and of itself, mind you, torturing someone simply because we would find it entertaining is using a human being as a mean to an meaningless end.
There is no justice in that, nor any morality to be found.
Chapter feels pretty great.
Bit of a shame I cant look at original print having it in my hands now.
Next week I guess that Luffy wont be able to use haki and gear 4th will out of picture.
I guess that it might not be very risky in the end for Luffy - I expect him looking like old guy or baloon that is out of air but I also guess that as we seen Luffy suffering from "costs" of using gears before, it is very likely that we will see him using aftereffect of gear 4th in some way.
Sure he will loose his firepower but we might get to see him being very dangerous even without it, fight is not over but I guess that next 2 chapter will bring closure to Doflamingo vs Luffy and also Sabo saving Luffy from Jesus "Burglares".
A wrinkly old looking Luffy would be something Oda might go for. Matches his type of humor.
Ending human life yes , crippling them is whole other ball game.
I bet i can ask 10 people if boxing immoral and most would answer no .
I bet that if you would ask if they hope that the boxer will get a crippling injury because of deliberate faul play, they would also answer no.
And yes, there have been cases of people dying in the ring. And yes, all of the boxers that caused such incidents struggled to come into terms with it, not gleefully approved of it.
Not irrelevant, because intention is important when it comes to moral evaluation of the actions.
The Riku era still used fighting as entertainment. Props didn't really prevent people from getting hurt, but they most likely didn't die. I guess that's just culture, but Doula decided to exploit it.
And I do remember some people in the audience getting horrified by some of the more violent fighters, like Kelly Funk.
What ever Burguess is planing to do with Luffy will end if failure LOL. Does he not know how many powerful allies Luffy has on the island right now. Poor Burguess just wasn't his arc to shine in.
He's going to help us get more information about why Sabo didn't aid Luffy and Ace during the war. He's going to stir some emotions just like BB did with Luffy in Impel Down, we'll get a flashback about what happened and then Sabo with Ace's will is going for payback. Burges will escape of course.
A wrinkly old looking Luffy would be something Oda might go for. Matches his type of humor.
He will slap Doflamingo with his wrinkled body
He will use "loose" rubber bits of body to attack Doflamingo :ninja:
Enjoyed the chapter wasn't too bad just confused about DF awakening " hate to be THE GUY who complains " but I'm just confused, I could swear Crocodile only mentioned Zoans awakening which makes sense. But how would a paramecia activate itself so confusing maybe someone can come up with a theory on this idea Oda has.
I'm glad chapter discussions have devolved into fighting over something completely arbitrary again. I love seeing psudeointellectuals bicker.
Enjoyed this chapter, though not as much as the previous one. If Doffy isn't done I hope it happens next chapter. I'm really desperate to move on.
Officers =/= elected.
Later trials were farces carried out by specific country's, for revenge, not by the world court.
Only because it was more convenient that way.