Chapter 779: "Final Fight"

[Thatanas]

@DARK_RITUAL:

Telling me that Burgess group had strong or known New world fighters like the other groups is like trying to convince me were still in year 2014.

Oda fleshed out most characters from other groups, giving some title, reasons why some want the mera mera fruit and later he had some of them fight or contribute in the attack of Doflamingo family/pirates, but not even once did Oda show any single character from Burgess group(except Burgess) do anything relevant other than being on a stretcher and crying on what a monster Burgess is.

Oda can't have people who got instantly beat by Burgess to suddenly come and start giving Dofla family trouble.

I thought it was just Burgess present, not a group? And the reason is that the BB pirates are collecting all kinds of powerful devil fruits, I thought that was clear?

[Thegreato]

@Rukusho:

I wouldn't say that if Mihawk infuses Haki in his Sword Buggy is dead. Doesn't haki allow you to hit the real body ? Just like the pic you shared Luffy is able to grab smokers body even though you can't grab smoke itself its his body

I'm personally going off of what Vergo himself said.

[kevo_koma]

This conversation is probably over but I wanted to chip in on Luffy taking a beating from Bellamy. Remember why Luffy didn't fight him in the bar?

[DARK_RITUAL]

@Robby:

NOTHING in the story indicated group A was inferior in any way.

Groups B-D ended up building loyalties to Luffy (mostly from fighting him and gaining respect through that) and having some showcases, but that's a narrative flow thing, it doesn't automatically mean group A was weaker.

And just how many characters from B-D blocks have REALLY gotten focus? Maybe 10? Out of the 100 or so that were named and showcased. Rebecca, Bart, Cavendish, Bellamy, Sai, Chinjao, Ucy, and a couple others with a panel here or there since the colloseum like King Punch, Jacket Brothers and Orlumbus? Most of those that have gotten any screentime were characters that had some prior history or connection to Luffy anyway…. and who is the one character we know as fact from block A that had history with Luffy? Burgess.

You can also say that Burgess's group was just beaten that badly that they're in condition to help, or that due to not interacting with Luffy, they have no real reason to help.

Narratively they aren't important and formed no bond with Luffy, same as about 80 of the other characters in blocks B-D. In-universe, doesn't mean they were randomly weaker than everyone else. It just means Burgess was stronger.

Nothing indicates the whole group A in general being inferior to other groups because Burgess is in it, but when you takeout Burgess then the rest of the group is inferior and lacking just like the other so 100-something people in other groups.

Is not about how weak each group is but how many special people were in each group. Group A only had Burgess as the special guy while the rest of the fighters are the make-up-a-number and hype tool. The rest of the other groups had atleast 4 or 5 people who Oda can't have anyone in that group wipeout instantly, for example: I believe this special people like Ideo, Cavendish, Bart etc can instantly takeout the other 100 something no names in their group.

[Rukusho]

@Thegreato:

I'm personally going off of what Vergo himself said.

[qimg]https://shannaro.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/112.jpg[/qimg]

Only thing I got from that is if a logia thinks it's a good idea to spread his body around he's just making it easier for a haki user to attack them. If Buggy decided to split himself before Mihawk sword connects he should be okay but if he's slower then Mihawk he's going to go home with a missing limb

[Robby]

And doesn't that inherently mean that Burgess is better than all those guys, if he can one shot and wipe out anyone who would have been special in his group?

Its a narrative thing not showing any of those contenders. Not an inherent implication that they sucked.

There is ZERO REASON to think that block was randomly weaker than the others, not a single thing in the text to imply it. And every reason to assume it means "Burgess is a level beyond all these guys and would have instantly destroyed any block he was in."

@DARK_RITUAL:

I believe this special people like Ideo, Cavendish, Bart etc can instantly takeout the other 100 something no names in their group.

They can't, and they didn't. A lot got beaten quickly, but aside from Cavendish's alt mode, most of the contestants werent instantly or easily taken out. It took a couple chapters to whittle the fields down to 15 guys each time with lots of middling characters facing off.

ANd you think Ideo is among the special ones? Did he do anything for more than two panels?

[Razh]

@Thegreato:

Yeah, I know that there are some aspects on Haki that are debatable but I personally find that this one is a common misconception.

Yes. It does make logia users tangible; but it doesn't restrict them from shifting into an element.

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130520143512/onepiece/images/8/83/Luffy_Touching_Smoker.png

! In fact, as stated by Vergo in his fight against Smoker; a logia user "expanding his mass" against a haki user is only making himself a bigger target.

But if Mihawk infuses his blade with haki there's still no way he's ever going to cut Buggy.

I see people keep repeating Buggy is immune to even Haki slashes, but nobody is able to bring up any evidence of that.

All they do is bring up bad examples and examples that may or may not mean Buggy can't be cut by Haki.

I think he's not special and that Haki works on him just like on everyone else. It's the simplest conclusion after what we've seen so far. Without any speculation involved.

But feel free to convince me. Maybe I'll learn something new.

[DARK_RITUAL]

@Thegreato:

But if Mihawk infuses his blade with haki there's still no way he's ever going to cut Buggy.

If anyone infuses their sword with haki they can cut Buggy like they would a normal human, unless Buggy can now split his body automatically.

[Razh]

@Rukusho:

Only thing I got from that is if a logia thinks it's a good idea to spread his body around he's just making it easier for a haki user to attack them. If Buggy decided to split himself before Mihawk sword connects he should be okay but if he's slower then Mihawk he's going to go home with a missing limb

That's what I believe as well.

It's like Haki overrides the reaction of devil fruit in the area that it hits. Don't see why it should be different with Buggy.

[airy-0]

@Robby:

And doesn't that inherently mean that Burgess is better than all those guys, if he can one shot and wipe out anyone who would have been special in his group?

Its a narrative thing not showing any of those contenders. Not an inherent implication that they sucked.

There is ZERO REASON to think that block was randomly weaker than the others, not a single thing in the text to imply it. And every reason to assume it means "Burgess is a level beyond all these guys and would have instantly destroyed any block he was in."

But it is possible. Every group had different levels of strength. Cavendish, for example, one shotted everyone in that group, as strong as he is, somehow even robin could stop him, his group was not strong at all. It's possible that Burgess had a group similar or slightly weaker.

[Razh]

@DARK_RITUAL:

If anyone infuses their sword with haki they can cut Buggy like they would a normal human, unless Buggy can now split his body automatically.

He would need to split it just before the blade hits him, though.

Only way I can see that happening is if he mastered Observation.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@airy-0:

But it is possible. Every group had different levels of strength. Cavendish, for example, one shotted everyone in that group, as strong as he is, somehow even robin could stop him, his group was not strong at all. It's possible that Burgess had a group similar or slightly weaker.

I think the impression would have been better if at least some famous pirates were mentioned as being part of Block A or something.

None the less, that part doesn't really bother me much.

[Robby]

@DARK_RITUAL:

If anyone infuses their sword with haki they can cut Buggy like they would a normal human, unless Buggy can now split his body automatically.

Buggy has always split his body automatically.

He can separate at whim, yes, but the reaction to blade cuts had been automatic since the start. This should have been made extra apparent when in Impel Down he was cut vertically instead of horizontally.

And at the war, after one round of attack, Mihawk decided to not bother trying to slice him and take a different tactic. Make of that what you will.

[PirateHunter]

@kevo_koma:

This conversation is probably over but I wanted to chip in on Luffy taking a beating from Bellamy. Remember why Luffy didn't fight him in the bar?

I understand what you're saying, but I want to point out that this scene is far less potent than the bar-scene in Jaya (which is, in my opinion, a truly great moment in one piece). At that point in the story, it isn't entirely clear how Bellamy will match up against Luffy so there's legitimate tension when the conflict begins. Then suddenly, out of nowhere, an incredible moment of character development occurs XD and Luffy/Zoro demonstrate the intense ambition/maturity that is until that point limited to characters like Shanks and Zeff (although even in comparison to Shanks' handling of the mountain bandits, Luffy's pacifism appears extreme). Initially it seems bizarre and Nami's frustration mirrors the reader's, but the progression from complete devastation as Zoro and Luffy are beaten to a pulp to catharsis beginning with Blackbeard's epic speech and ending with the final confrontation justified the initial torture. I don't think there has been a sequence of equal poignancy since the time-skip, and I don't think there will be until we're at the point where we're no longer wondering about how much progress was made during the break and focused on growth post-TS.

[Rukusho]

@airy-0:

But it is possible. Every group had different levels of strength. Cavendish, for example, one shotted everyone in that group, as strong as he is, somehow even robin could stop him, his group was not strong at all. It's possible that Burgess had a group similar or slightly weaker.

Robin caught Hakuba due to her DF. Didn't a VA say Hakuba is double the strength of Cavendish ? I think personally if Cavendish didn't intervene Hakuba would have cut Robin.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Robby:

Buggy has always split his body automatically.

He can separate at whim, yes, but the reaction to blade cuts had been automatic since the start. This should have been made extra apparent when in Impel Down he was cut vertically instead of horizontally.

And at the war, after one attack, Mihawk decided to not bother trying to slice him and take a different tactic. Make of that what you will.

I just take it Mihawk got fed up and wasn't dealing with a moron like Buggy

[DARK_RITUAL]

@Robby:

And doesn't that inherently mean that Burgess is better than all those guys, if he can one shot and wipe out anyone who would have been special in his group?

Its a narrative thing not showing any of those contenders. Not an inherent implication that they sucked.

There is ZERO REASON to think that block was randomly weaker than the others, not a single thing in the text to imply it. And every reason to assume it means "Burgess is a level beyond all these guys and would have instantly destroyed any block he was in."

Like I said, nothing proves block A being weaker than other groups just because of Burgess. It doesn't change the fact that the people Burgess beat are no names, if Oda had introduce some characters in group A just like other groups then Burgess winning in an instant would've had more impact. When a group of people are instantly taken out in a manga they are considered as fodders except if they have gotten some kind of hype.

They can't, and they didn't. A lot got beaten quickly, but aside from Cavendish's alt mode, most of the contestants werent instantly or easily taken out. It took a couple chapters to whittle the fields down to 15 guys each time with lots of middling characters facing off.

well that's why I said for example. Most of them can instantly takeout the no names in their group but not all of them, I believe.

ANd you think Ideo is among the special ones? Did he do anything for more than two panels?

Ideo was special compared to the no names, for a minute he was fighting equally with Sai then he went down hill after that.
Well

[Razh]

@Robby:

Buggy has always split his body automatically.

He can separate at whim, yes, but the reaction to blade cuts had been automatic since the start. This should have been made extra apparent when in Impel Down he was cut vertically instead of horizontally.

And at the war, after one round of attack, Mihawk decided to not bother trying to slice him and take a different tactic. Make of that what you will.

Mihawk didn't take a different tactic. He just repelled the Muggy ball back into Buggy's face. After which Vista clashed swords with him. Can't make anything out of that.

[Robby]

@Razh:

Mihawk didn't take a different tactic. He just repelled the Muggy ball back into Buggy's face. After which Vista clashed swords with him. Can't make anything out of that.

He slashed him in half when Luffy threw Buggy in the way. Two panels later he cut Buggy to ribbons. Then Mihawk took an offensive stance against Buggy while his flying torso attacked.

He cut him several times, on camera. In the manga.

After that, he switched over to just repelling the bomb.

A switching of tactics, rather than trying to cut him again a different way. Maybe he didn't take it seriously enough to apply Haki, Oda hadn't started doing the black fill in effect yet so we'll never know… but regardless, Mihawk felt it wasn't worth any further effort to try cutting Buggy after slashing him multiple times.

@airy-0:

But it is possible. Every group had different levels of strength. Cavendish, for example, one shotted everyone in that group, as strong as he is, somehow even robin could stop him, his group was not strong at all.

He did that after everyone had been fighting for a while and no one was prepared for the super fast attack (except Rebecca).

Robin managing to deal with it can be assumed among other things
a)is at that level after 2 years of training
b)was able to focus on the one opponent instead of a whole arene
c)is used to splitting her attention and focus, especially now that she can do two full bodies at once.

These are all thigns we've demonstratably seen from her at this point.

It's possible that Burgess had a group similar or slightly weaker.

It's possible but NOTHING in the story indicated it. NOTHING. You have to make up the extra facts entirely whole cloth to come to that conclusion, when the thing supported and intended from the story is that "woah, Burgess is strong." The announcers didn't go "that block sure was full of weaklings" they went "that guy sure was incredible!" Everyone else in the prep room didn't go "ell yeah, that was a bunch of weaklings out there, the real toughies are still in here" they went "woah, that guy was strong!" His victims and Franky supported this as well.

If you have to ignore multiple context clues, and then make up things from thin air, then you're not reading or interpreting the story very well.

[ARTEMlS]

I think Burgess is handled quite well in this arc.

On the one hand he doesn't appear too weak, but on the other hand he also doesn't appear too strong.

About the block A contestants, Occam's Razor tells us that they as a whole aren't weaker than the average fighters of the other groups.
The only difference - made by the narrative - is that none of them showed up until now. But this, of course, does not mean they have to be weaker for sure. We didn't see Burgess afterwards, so there is the possibility that some of them joined Burgess whatever he's doing now and are now allies of the BB pirates - because they have been so impressed by his performance. I really wouldn't be surprised if we see some of them in the background now - only to get introduced properly later. (this arc has enough characters so I don't think they will get introduced still in this arc.)

About him vs. Sabo. Yes, from what we have seen it looks that Sabo was a little bit better overall ability-wise. But Burgess never got overwhelmed in a too obvious way despite got close to being defeated. My impression is that he's not the guy that goes all-out from the beginning. My feeling is that he hold back a lot. (Not saying that Sabo did show off everything he had.) Hell, we don't even know if he has a DF. The statement "The fruit is for my Burgess." is quite ambiguous. It can mean both for him to eat or for him to take with. I wouldn't be too surprised if we see a little bit of his DF later on in this arc - maybe in the same way fruits like Buggy's or Robin's were introduced at the very first.

He's a formidable opponent, but luckily no one which steals the show completely.

[DARK_RITUAL]

@Robby:

Buggy has always split his body automatically.

He can separate at whim, yes, but the reaction to blade cuts had been automatic since the start. This should have been made extra apparent when in Impel Down he was cut vertically instead of horizontally.

And at the war, after one attack, Mihawk decided to not bother trying to slice him and take a different tactic. Make of that what you will.

Yes I just realized that. Automatically just like Razh said, splitting before the blade touches him.

[Razh]

@DARK_RITUAL:

Yes I just realized that. Automatically just like Razh said, splitting before the blade could touch him.

What I meant is, he would have to do that in order not to get hurt by Haki.

As it was so far, I think he is actually cut, but it just detaches him, i.e. cutting can't wound him. But when you put Haki in that equasion, opinions differ.

[Robby]

If Mihawk couldn't cut Buggy and make it count, nothing can.

Oda answered that question pretty clearly.

But, blunt force punch him in the balls, anyone can do that.

[kevo_koma]

It just hit me that there is a parallel between Bellamy and Barto and I think its because of this that Barto will be the first guy Luffy ever rejects.

[Rukusho]

@Robby:

If Mihawk couldn't cut Buggy and make it count, nothing can.

Oda answered that question pretty clearly.

But, blunt force punch him in the balls, anyone can do that.

Are you serious so I take it that, you take Mihawks clash with Vista as a serious bout as well ?

[kevo_koma]

@PirateHunter:

I understand what you're saying, but I want to point out that this scene is far less potent than the bar-scene in Jaya (which is, in my opinion, a truly great moment in one piece). At that point in the story, it isn't entirely clear how Bellamy will match up against Luffy so there's legitimate tension when the conflict begins. Then suddenly, out of nowhere, an incredible moment of character development occurs XD and Luffy/Zoro demonstrate the intense ambition/maturity that is until that point limited to characters like Shanks and Zeff (although even in comparison to Shanks' handling of the mountain bandits, Luffy's pacifism appears extreme). Initially it seems bizarre and Nami's frustration mirrors the reader's, but the progression from complete devastation as Zoro and Luffy are beaten to a pulp to catharsis beginning with Blackbeard's epic speech and ending with the final confrontation justified the initial torture. I don't think there has been a sequence of equal poignancy since the time-skip, and I don't think there will be until we're at the point where we're no longer wondering about how much progress was made during the break and focused on growth post-TS.

Hmm, in your opinion why do you think Luffy never fought back?

[Razh]

@Robby:

If Mihawk couldn't cut Buggy and make it count, nothing can.

Oda answered that question pretty clearly.

But, blunt force punch him in the balls, anyone can do that.

You're going by the assumption Mihawk used Haki when he did the cutting. That's hard to prove.

He may or may not have used Haki. And Buggy may or may not be immune to even Haki cuts.

[Darth]

And if you want to ask what I consider a proper way of hyping someones fighting abilities…

I like this one.

[airy-0]

@Rukusho:

Robin caught Hakuba due to her DF. Didn't a VA say Hakuba is double the strength of Cavendish ? I think personally if Cavendish didn't intervene Hakuba would have cut Robin.

Robin isn't a high tier fighter tho, her reaction was impressive despite her df.
She took the attack very calmly, I doubt that was because of Cavendish.

@Robby:

e did that after everyone had been fighting for a while and no one was prepared for the super fast attack (except Rebecca).

Robin managing to deal with it can be assumed among other things
a)is at that level after 2 years of training
b)was able to focus on the one opponent instead of a whole arene
c)is used to splitting her attention and focus, especially now that she can do two full bodies at once.

These are all thigns we've demonstratably seen from her at this point.

It's possible but NOTHING in the story indicated it. NOTHING. You have to make up the extra facts entirely whole cloth to come to that conclusion, when the thing supported and intended from the story is that "woah, Burgess is strong." The announcers didn't go "that block sure was full of weaklings" they went "that guy sure was incredible!" Everyone else in the prep room didn't go "ell yeah, that was a bunch of weaklings out there, the real toughies are still in here" they went "woah, that guy was strong!" His victims and Franky supported this as well.

If you have to ignore multiple context clues, and then make up things from thin air, then you're not reading or interpreting the story very very well.

Point is that Hakuba is capable of the feat and Robin despite not being all that strong is capable of stopping it. The quality of the arena in that group wasn't high and most likely wasn't high for Burgess either.

I felt the burgess introduction was good enough, just that you and Darth were both arguing over something pretty trivial that could go either way. It didn't matter whether the group was strong or not. The main point of the hype is that he's a yonkou division commander.

Chill guys.

[DARK_RITUAL]

@Rukusho:

Are you serious so I take it that, you take Mihawks clash with Vista as a serious bout as well ?

Yes Mihawk and Vista clash was a serious one.

[sabinis]

@Robby:

If Mihawk couldn't cut Buggy and make it count, nothing can.

Oda answered that question pretty clearly.

But, blunt force punch him in the balls, anyone can do that.

Thats not how it looked.

More than that it seemed that Mihawk stopped himself from killing Buggy and didnt used haki.

Or Buggy is that good at splitting on reflex :ninja:

Otherwise its most logical that if somebody uses haki on weapon / fist/ something to attack Devil Fruit user then imbued thing damages that person in place where haki gets into contact with devil fruit users body(with logias volume of it gets bigger if they get spread all over the place).

Also if he can become better at sectioning himself he can separate part of body that is getting punched into direction of impact, thus avoiding most or all damage.
Like somebody punches a symetric hole in him from lack of better description.

[Rukusho]

@DARK_RITUAL:

Yes Mihawk and Vista clash was a serious one.

Now you're opening a whole can of worms ! I just need clarification on this you think Mihawk and Vista were going all out against each other ? If so you need to show some proof of this claim please cause I didn't take it serious.

[kouch_lee]

@kevo_koma:

It just hit me that there is a parallel between Bellamy and Barto and I think its because of this that Barto will be the first guy Luffy ever rejects.

I don't think Luffy will reject Barto simply because Barto himself admitted he isn't strong enough so Luffy can depend on him. He said that with tears in his eyes.

If you read chapter 773 again, you'll see that Barto actually failed his mission to protect Robin from the exploding wall. It was Hakuvandish that ultimately saved their asses.

Barto won't ask Luffy anything after that scene.

[sabinis]

@Rukusho:

Now you're opening a whole can of worms ! I just need clarification on this you think Mihawk and Vista were going all out against each other ? If so you need to show some proof of this claim please cause I didn't take it serious.

Its not like Vista can get "pwned" by Mihawk like that. So people should acknowledge that Mihawk did fight Vista seriously but for a short time and circumstances were not perfect for them to fight.

Vista is very well known swordsman from Yonko crew and we know that fights between swordsmen in OP are not only about brute strength and I guess that in leaque of Mihawk and Vista where people are masters of swords for decades it comes up to point where they fight purely on swordsmanship skills techniques and as it seems also haki. Perhaps top swordsmen fight without it as it probably takes some attention or effort from them that could be used for fighting as haki is most likely bit tiring and takes some focus from a person.

I would compare fights of top swordsmen in One Piece to fencing matches as Vistas line about each of them having a point hinted to some similarities. So they fight on skill level, bit like a sporty way and not like basics of fights is brute strength or whos haki is stronger.

• to me it looked like Vista was in leaque with Marco, Jozu and so on. This kind of people cannot be stepped on even by likes of Mihawk.

I would really enjoy if next, not last fight with Mihawk(or maybe Zoros fight in Wano) would be somehow special- like Zoro fighting in crowd of people with both fighters avoiding cutting any people, something really extreme that would show off some precision and not only haki and attack size as against Pica.

[Razh]

@Darth:

And if you want to ask what I consider a proper way of hyping someones fighting abilities…

I like this one.

You just can't escape the impression that block A was full of nobodies. In all 3 other blocks there were multiple named fighters and most of them had some kind of a role even after they lost. No matter how they lost.

The impression might have been different if, say, a couple of those fighters that were featured in other blocks were actually part of block A. Oda might have shown them commenting how they were caught completely by surprise or couldn't do anything.

It would certainly reduce the disparity between block A and other blocks.

[Rukusho]

@sabinis:

Its not like Vista can get "pwned" by Mihawk like that. So people should acknowledge that Mihawk did fight Vista seriously but for a short time and circumstances were not perfect for them to fight.

Vista is very well known swordsman from Yonko crew and we know that fights between swordsmen in OP are not only about brute strength and I guess that in leaque of Mihawk and Vista where people are masters of swords for decades it comes up to point where they fight purely on swordsmanship skills techniques and as it seems also haki. Perhaps top swordsmen fight without it as it probably takes some attention or effort from them that could be used for fighting as haki is most likely bit tiring and takes some focus from a person.

I would compare fights of top swordsmen in One Piece to fencing matches as Vistas line about each of them having a point hinted to some similarities. So they fight on skill level, bit like a sporty way and not like basics of fights is brute strength or whos haki is stronger.

• to me it looked like Vista was in leaque with Marco, Jozu and so on. This kind of people cannot be stepped on even by likes of Mihawk.

I would really enjoy if next, not last fight with Mihawk(or maybe Zoros fight in Wano) would be somehow special- like Zoro fighting in crowd of people with both fighters avoiding cutting any people, something really extreme that would show off some precision and not only haki and attack size as against Pica.

I agree with you to some degree, as you said the circumstances which arose is what makes me believe there weren't fighting seriously. Also I agree with you on seeing how other swordsman fight. Especially in the wano country which should be interesting.

[Darth]

@Razh:

You just can't escape the impression that block A was full of nobodies. In all 3 other blocks there were multiple named fighters and most of them had some kind of a role even after they lost. No matter how they lost.

The impression might have been different if, say, a couple of those fighters that were featured in other blocks were actually part of block A. Oda might have shown them commenting how they were caught completely by surprise or couldn't do anything.

It would certainly reduce the disparity between block A and other blocks.

If the block D and B could get full on threatment that served, let's be clear here, mostly to hype up Cavendish and Barto, there is no reason why the same couldn't have been done for block A.

And if anybody is going to tell me Oda couldn't possibly cut anything and everything was immensly important that we just needed to reduce role of freaking Burgess of the Blackbeard Pirates, I'm going to throw Kyuin at you.

Cause if she can get half of the chapter dedicated solely to herself, but somehow, Burgess is not important enough to get a proper hype going, then I'm sorry, Oda's genius is clearly too much for me to comprehend.

[Razh]

@Darth:

If the block D and B could get full on threatment that served, let's be clear here, mostly to hype up Cavendish and Barto, there is no reason why the same couldn't have been done for block A.

And if anybody is going to tell me Oda couldn't possibly cut anything and everything was immensly important that we just needed to reduce role of freaking Burgess of the Blackbeard Pirates, I'm going to throw Kyuin at you.

Cause if she can get half of the chapter dedicated solely to herself, but somehow, Burgess is not important enough to get a proper hype going, then I'm sorry, Oda's genius is clearly too much for me to comprehend.

I can understand Oda trying to keep Burgess' abilities under wraps, but he could have executed block A a lot better. That's all I'm saying.

[Rukusho]

@Darth:

If the block D and B could get full on threatment that served, let's be clear here, mostly to hype up Cavendish and Barto, there is no reason why the same couldn't have been done for block A.

And if anybody is going to tell me Oda couldn't possibly cut anything and everything was immensly important that we just needed to reduce role of freaking Burgess of the Blackbeard Pirates, I'm going to throw Kyuin at you.

Cause if she can get half of the chapter dedicated solely to herself, but somehow, Burgess is not important enough to get a proper hype going, then I'm sorry, Oda's genius is clearly too much for me to comprehend.

Couldn't agree with you more Oda seems to have an issue hyping some charcters and people get the idea there weak or not as strong as their supposed to be

[kouch_lee]

@Darth:

If the block D and B could get full on threatment that served, let's be clear here, mostly to hype up Cavendish and Barto, there is no reason why the same couldn't have been done for block A.

And if anybody is going to tell me Oda couldn't possibly cut anything and everything was immensly important that we just needed to reduce role of freaking Burgess of the Blackbeard Pirates, I'm going to throw Kyuin at you.

Cause if she can get half of the chapter dedicated solely to herself, but somehow, Burgess is not important enough to get a proper hype going, then I'm sorry, Oda's genius is clearly too much for me to comprehend.

@Razh:

I can understand Oda trying to keep Burgess' abilities under wraps, but he could have executed block A a lot better. That's all I'm saying.

. . .You guys understand the whole thing about Block A is that it was over before anyone ever realized what was going on? On the same chapter the rules were set-up, all the players (or most of them) were mentioned, etc etc. . .and then suddenly "oh shit Block A is done, who did it? oh shit it was Burgess!". It was surprise factor thrown at us, and I recall back in the day it was super effective, everyone was "what, Burgess???".

There's no execution to be had on Block A and no development cause Oda wasn't going for that, he was going for the surprise factor. And, yeah, there was also some hyping there if someone wipes out 150+ fighters in a minute.

Now, I do somewhat agree with Razh in that Oda could've inserted the typical standby guy that likes to comment things randomly and say "but wasn't Haagen-Dazs, captain of the holiday on ice pirates in there too?", "yeah, and also the noble champion from the country of Nyarlhotep, right at the heart of the New World!". Yes, that could've been done, but still, to go from that to "no hype at all" is a stretch too.

[Darth]

@kouch_lee:

. . .You guys understand the whole thing about Block A is that it was over before anyone ever realized what was going on? On the same chapter the rules were set-up, all the players (or most of them) were mentioned, etc etc. . .and then suddenly "oh shit Block A is done, who did it? oh shit it was Burgess!". It was surprise factor thrown at us, and I recall back in the day it was super effective, everyone was "what, Burgess???".

There's no execution to be had on Block A and no development cause Oda wasn't going for that, he was going for the surprise factor. And, yeah, there was also some hyping there if someone wipes out 150+ fighters in a minute.

Now, I do somewhat agree with Razh in that Oda could've inserted the typical standby guy that likes to comment things randomly and say "but wasn't Haagen-Dazs, captain of the holiday on ice pirates in there too?", "yeah, and also the noble champion from the country of Nyarlhotep, right at the heart of the New World!". Yes, that could've been done, but still, to go from that to "no hype at all" is a stretch too.

The mere fact that he is from Blackbeard Pirates serves as a massive hype tool. Though I admit of commiting mistake here.

What Burgess needs is a proper pay-off to his reputation. Or hype that would make his reputation seem deserved. Who knows, maybe he will casually beat up Trebol, while he is at it.

That would actually be a great to properly hype him up, since we saw Trebol thus far being actually capable, and he has no enemies that could deal with him at the moment. Let Burgess beat up Trebol before facing Sabo, Oda.

Come on! Every single positive prediction I've had this arc turned out to be wrong, let me have this one!

[Cyan D. Funk]

Wait, there's been no on-screen proof that Burgess is a powerful motherfucker therefore his block was the weakest, which also has no on-screen proof?

Is…Is this happening.

[ICEMAN]

It would be futile to milk more out of Burgess. He has done nothing to prove he's superior to the other big named guys in Dressrosa.
I think Dressrosa showed us that a lot of big names, in the new world, were impressive just like a yonko commander.
And these guys will still get stronger, later on in the series.

[andy]

@Rukusho:

Couldn't agree with you more Oda seems to have an issue hyping some charcters and people get the idea there weak or not as strong as their supposed to be

I don't think Oda has a problem with that, it's more so that people get there expectation to high or down play certain things .
Will give you a eg at the start of this arc when Oda was showing off the colosseum fighters people were saying why is he wasting so much time on fodder.
They are people that not going to matter later on in the arc etc etc
Fast forward to where we are now and we have the some of same colosseum fighters beating some of the Don famliy etc etc.
Now we hearing that Don famliy weak when it was said that these guys in colosseum are strong well know people .
Some people hype up Don famliy to high while down playing the colosseum fighters .

[hpda]

@Rangue:

Daily reminder, Schrodinger cat was an example Schrodinger used for how stupid the idea of the copenhagen interpretation was. It was meant to be a idiotic parallel, which common sense would tell you is not true, and the cat is alive or dead independent of being observed. I blame the big bang theory television show for people throwing the idea around like it is actual science.

I'm sorry but I have to jump in here.

The Schrödinger cat is a great metaphor of what really happens in quantum systems. There are a lot of systems when the two possible states superpose and you cannot tell which one is the real one until you measure it. As an example, molecules of ammonia are oscillating into two possible states, right or left-handed. You cannot tell which one, one particular molecule is until you measure (and hence destroy) the output. Until that moment, the system is oscillating and in the two states "at the same time", with some probability each, but you need both to describe the system. Mathematically, of course.

So yeah, first, TBBT did not make up anything :)

and second, until Oda collapses the result in two weeks, our system can be described mathematically as:

Ψ(Law) = A · |alive> + B · |dead> than can be read as Law is at the same time alive are dead (since we need both states to describe the system)

Statistically, by previous results/arcs, we could assign some probabilities to our unknown constants, e.g., A=99.999999999999….% , B= ε

But there is always a small probability to go through the wall… I mean, that Law can be dead :)

[airy-0]

It would be dumb to really let go of Burgess at this point, BB's goal currently is to gather powerful devil fruits. It might not have been a simple mission to try to get the mera mera no mi for Burgess, but to exploit the Law/Luffy alliance to get SMILES. Only aiming for a fruit that was obviously not meant to be given away is a stupid idea.

[Darth]

@airy-0:

It would be dumb to really let go of Burgess at this point, BB's goal currently is to gather powerful devil fruits. It might not have been a simple mission to try to get the mera mera no mi for Burgess, but to exploit the Law/Luffy alliance to get SMILES. Only aiming for a fruit that was obviously not meant to be given away is a stupid idea.

So… just up their alley?

They made their name based on insane plans that should not have worked.

[airy-0]

@Darth:

So… just up their alley?

They made their name based on insane plans that should not have worked.

They made risky plans before, incredible investment into incredible gains.
This plan has no investment if Burgess just comes and tries to win, then backs up because it was not meant to be given away. BB is not going to fight Doffy because of Kaidou.

The insane plan would be taking advantage of this chaos, just as they did in Marineford.
Marines suffer casualty and internal conflicts(Fuji hopefully), Luffy/Law alliance can go down, Doffy can go down, Kaidou can lose his Smiles, BB has everything to gain here.

I probably have my hopes to high tho :(

[Razh]

@Cyan:

Wait, there's been no on-screen proof that Burgess is a powerful motherfucker therefore his block was the weakest, which also has no on-screen proof?

Is…Is this happening.

I don't want to get to involved into this Burgess thing, but you can't honestly claim block A didn't have a severe lack of characters compared to other blocks. Fact that nobody from it was given any panel space even after the tournament shows how much thought Oda gave to it.

As for Burgess, he'll probably justify his notoriety by the end of this arc. Unless Oda decides to Worf him too.

[Darth]

@airy-0:

I probably have my hopes to high tho :(

At this point, I'm expecting generic Doflamingo vs Luffy fight, with Sabo stomping on both Burgess and Trebol effortlessly.

Thus, no matter what, I cannot be dissapointed.

This is the moment of truth. Only Doflamingo and Trebol remain. As of now, they have no more cards to play. This will either be a pay-off we have been waiting for the entire arc, the one that makes it all worth it, or the final nail to it's coffin.

I'm in the camp that says it's going to be the latter. Because A) Too high expectations made me really mad earlier in the arc B) I don't believe in miracles.

[Razh]

@kouch_lee:

Now, I do somewhat agree with Razh in that Oda could've inserted the typical standby guy that likes to comment things randomly and say "but wasn't Haagen-Dazs, captain of the holiday on ice pirates in there too?", "yeah, and also the noble champion from the country of Nyarlhotep, right at the heart of the New World!". Yes, that could've been done, but still, to go from that to "no hype at all" is a stretch too.

Well I never said there was no hype at all, just that Oda could have balanced those blocks a little more. For appearances and credibility, if nothing more. I do remember thinking "oh shit" when I realized Burgess obliterated his block in a couple of seconds so I have no complaints there.

[andy]

@Razh:

I don't want to get to involved into this Burgess thing, but you can't honestly claim block A didn't have a severe lack of characters compared to other blocks. Fact that nobody from it was given any panel space even after the tournament shows how much thought Oda gave to it.

As for Burgess, he'll probably justify his notoriety by the end of this arc. Unless Oda decides to Worf him too.

Oda might just give us a few panels and people will think the same thing they do now no matter what side they on .