Do you understand what it means to wipe out 50,000 people with your willpower alone? People with Kings Haki can decimate entire armies with a flick of the neck.
I think he meant as far as versatility goes.
And true, someone with CoC can KO thousands of people in a few moments but, let's face it, most of the people who can do it can likely do it without CoC blast. So it comes of as not much more than a showy time saver.
But I'm sure CoC will have more abilities in the future.
And for the above ^^^^:
We've already seen more versatility from CoO as demonstrated by the clash of Luffy and DC, possibly the clash, but at least entering the ship by Shanks, vs WB. It's still not simply knocking out people to not need to fight them, it also seems to have quite a physical "presence".
I doubt he won't be able to use Hardening like a pro. Because it's like an equivalent of Tackle in Pokemon nowadays.
But seriously, the man is a vet and I don't doubt he's proficient at Haki. Fact he didn't use anything pre timeskip means little.
Actually I think it's more like we don't know either way what it should mean, instead of: "Fact he didn't use anything pre timeskip means little.".
I could agree with you if we were talking pre- timeskip before the MW, but at the War when BB knew he'd be facing probably the most hard to beat Yonkou, and after he deemed it necessary to jump that one guy with his whole crew?…
Still no sign of any form( besides what could possibly be the same thing only associated with CoO)....
I mean if Oda was trying to drop a weirdly subtle/ blatant clue that haki doesn't function well with abject, or absolute terror/ fear, (then he has something to explain regarding Ussop), and that'd make sense somewhat. But in the War where he's more definitively highlighting at least notating that people have used haki, ( yet somehow nothing of the sort with BB, only having him with those hints in ID, + Jaya, hints only of knowledge though), even while being in a near death situation ;seems it could be a mistake, seems it could be on purpose and have something to do with timing, or be on purpose and be some breadcrumbs that will make sense towards the ending fights with BB, or some combination of the three/ two. Either way, can only guess who's right, can't really say it means nothing or little.
Sorry for the late reply, thought I'd already done it.
That's the point. Why they didn't go all out from the beginning using koka on their blade?
I mean what they were trying to do, test they opponent?
With Tashigi that wouldn't surprise me. She has a niave sense of fair play that Punk Hazard was showed mostly knocking out of her.
Bastille vs. Sabo wasn't fully shown so he could've, but been blitzed or outclassed from the start.
Another factor is I've always assumed there's an energy cost to haki. You can't use it indefinitely without fatiguing yourself into uselessness so fighters are naturally trained not to use everything they've got from the get-go. Going all out from the start is a desperation attack and you wouldn't start with it. Testing is probably a fair description.
This changes with the higher level fighters who have haki to spare, or the naturally incautious like Luffy .
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@uniaka:
This chapter makes me wonder more about Law vs Vergo.
Was the reason Law cut full body CoA vergo because his haki is better or was it just DF.
I don't think Law's haki was stronger, but the tactic he and Smoker seemed to use was to both wear Vergo down and enrage him until his concentration was eroded enough that the combination of Law's DF and haki would work.
Pretty sure if Law had tried that move at the start he would have failed.
I don't think Law's haki was stronger, but the tactic he and Smoker seemed to use was to both wear Vergo down and enrage him until his concentration was eroded enough that the combination of Law's DF and haki would work.
Pretty sure if Law had tried that move at the start he would have failed.
Haki being used for that cut would kill Vergo.
I have no idea how you came up with idea of haki strenghtening devil fruit power - it was never even hinted.
Law overpowered Vergos haki purely with his devil fruit.
Haki being used for that cut would kill Vergo.
I have no idea how you came up with idea of haki strenghtening devil fruit power - it was never even hinted.
Law overpowered Vergos haki purely with his devil fruit.
Sorry, didn't at all mean to say it was DF reinforced by haki, but I believe he did need to use both.
They work seperately but Law's haki would have had a role in breaking Vergo's. The exact mechanism of OpOp is a bit vague, whether there is a physical cut or if it's the idea of cutting. Law's sword may actually cut or it serves as a focus for his power, whichever. So more of a switch between the two.
Sorry, didn't at all mean to say it was DF reinforced by haki, but I believe he did need to use both.
They work seperately but Law's haki would have had a role in breaking Vergo's. The exact mechanism of OpOp is a bit vague, whether there is a physical cut or if it's the idea of cutting. Law's sword may actually cut or it serves as a focus for his power, whichever. So more of a switch between the two.
I see Law using his Ope Ope power on his sword to concentrate it in one place - we seen him cutting Trebol with his hand ? And also cutting Doflamingo face with scalpel move with his fingers.
So I guess its most likely he channels his power through sword for better concentration of it in exact spots. Like Whitebeard did to his Bisento during war by adding quake power to it or more like Fujitora pressing down Law on Green Bit while Law was on ground under blind ossans sword.
Haki cut in my opinion would kill Vergo - same as with Monet when she thought she was dead as Zoro used haki while cutting her in half. Tashigi and Monet were shocked that she is alive as Zoro made them both think that he had his sword coated in CoA.
So I am strongly keeping my opinion that it was only Laws devil fruit power that went through Vergo.
I see Law using his Ope Ope power on his sword to concentrate it in one place - we seen him cutting Trebol with his hand ? And also cutting Doflamingo face with scalpel move with his fingers.
So I guess its most likely he channels his power through sword for better concentration of it in exact spots. Like Whitebeard did to his Bisento during war by adding quake power to it or more like Fujitora pressing down Law on Green Bit while Law was on ground under blind ossans sword.
Haki cut in my opinion would kill Vergo - same as with Monet when she thought she was dead as Zoro used haki while cutting her in half. Tashigi and Monet were shocked that she is alive as Zoro made them both think that he had his sword coated in CoA.
So I am strongly keeping my opinion that it was only Laws devil fruit power that went through Vergo.
Law also has Radio Knife, which permanently cuts. But, again, how his DF affect matter is a bit vague. He cut thw Punk Hazard children to the level he could remove poison from their cells and restore them so a little haki cut seems reasonable to me. Until it's stated otherwise in the book I think we just have to disagree on this one 
I was here trying to wrap my head around ambition of the conqueror (Kings Haki) and some ideas came to me about how it might be of importance in the future. I chose this one because most persons cannot fully get a grasp on the concept so let me get to explaining.
When I think of Haki I am reminded of the various powers that exist in other mangas and animes that help to increase a fighters potential. In most cases, it is referred to as spirit (Ki) like Dragon Ball, Nem in HxH, and some mangas that involve magic use manna but whatever it is referred to it is still the same concept just different ways of explaining and using it. Think back on Dragon Ball when we see Goku or anybody for that matter release their Ki the author always use different visuals to show how much stronger they have gotten by having it affecting the the world and people. When ki is released we see rocks breaking, breeze flying and people getting blown away, we also see people getting scared to fight and giving up hope, some faint these references may not only be from Dragon Ball. Let me use Bleach as well when a captain release their spiritual pressure we see persons who are not strong enough falling to their knees in some instant we see persons suffocating. Additionally the author always let the characters use the spiritual pressure to augment their fighting skills and power if the manga is power base.
What I explain are things already known by most, I know some might start to say "not this again", so I will get to it. The first time we see Haki affecting something physically was shanks meeting with White Beard, hence the Dragon Ball reference. Therefore, what we get from this, that if your Haki/spiritual power is strong enough it can be manifested outwards creating force, it then can be seen as something tangible. Another example is the admirals putting up that force field to ward off White Beard ability. I think it is similar to the previous example hence Shanks Haki creating a force field that is pushing against White Beard's ship.
How will Conqueror Haki works? Here are some examples of how I think it may become relevant in combat:
1. Overpowering an opponent's will that render them unable to fight something we all know.
2. Coating your body or armor with Conqueror Haki and amplifying your attacks this will allow your will to clash against another therefore depending on who's will is stronger they will overpower the other damaging any defense that person have in place.
3. I think this is the one that I believe in more even though it is far fetch, allowing a Conqueror user to apply it to their attack and disrupt a devil fruit user ability to use the devil fruit effectively. The way it will work is the same as Monet not able to put herself back together after getting slice by Zoro and similar to how Law disrupt Trebol ability leaving him unable to put himself back together for some time. Therefore, it will be something like a Conqueror's injection. Another example is Ralige sp using it to take off Cami neckbrace that would normally explode if taken off otherwise.
4. Using it to augment the other type of Haki. As it relates to COA it fits with example two, and COO it will increase the range similar to Enel also it will allow the user to hear the voice of all things same like Roger and Luffy this will be the key to finding One Piece something Black Beard will not be able to do. This point is somewhat iffy as roger ask Whitebeard if he wants to know how to find One Piece.
I see Law using his Ope Ope power on his sword to concentrate it in one place - we seen him cutting Trebol with his hand ? And also cutting Doflamingo face with scalpel move with his fingers.
So I guess its most likely he channels his power through sword for better concentration of it in exact spots. Like Whitebeard did to his Bisento during war by adding quake power to it or more like Fujitora pressing down Law on Green Bit while Law was on ground under blind ossans sword.
Haki cut in my opinion would kill Vergo - same as with Monet when she thought she was dead as Zoro used haki while cutting her in half. Tashigi and Monet were shocked that she is alive as Zoro made them both think that he had his sword coated in CoA.
So I am strongly keeping my opinion that it was only Laws devil fruit power that went through Vergo.
Zoro never used haki to cut monet if he did she would of died she was in a panic thinking she died and couldn't control her powers
Zoro never used haki to cut monet if he did she would of died she was in a panic thinking she died and couldn't control her powers
I didnt wrote that Zoro used haki in the end but that he made Monet and Tashigi think he did..
Probably I didnt worded it properly.
Haki cut in my opinion would kill Vergo
This is like saying that Doula Mongo wouldn't be able to use his strings while using CoA. Do DF users cancel their own powers when using CoA or something?
No, it wouldn't. Law's DF effect wouldn't magically go away because of CoA. Why should it?
This is like saying that Doula Mongo wouldn't be able to use his strings while using CoA.
I mean killing effect of haki that is separate thing to Laws devil fruit power.
If haki can amplify it there is nothing beside Yonkos haki that he cannot cut then. Its like dubles 
Seriously..
Strings are one thing but Laws fruit has different efect - its not power to split people at will/touch of finger but he creates physical strings that can be imbued with haki. With Laws power there is no object. Also Doflamingo strings create destrucion on physical rules, with destructive-killing effect while Laws devil fruit is by big part against any rules of nature and has completely different effect of usage(not killing anybody, splitting person with fingers etc). Imbuing sword with haki is something to amplify damage to DF users, hardness etc
If Law went all out and you people assume he went for haki imbuing his sword as well then why we dont see blackening effect on blade hm?
We seen Zoros blade being CoA hardened in last chapter, Law was shown to use CoA hardening on his arms when fighting Doflamingo so he is capable of it and what you imply makes no sense if he used "invisible" haki to beat Vergo while going all out against him.
You didnt changed my mind- Mingos and Laws power are very different and its pretty bad argument to compare one to another to prove your point.
I mean killing effect of haki that is separate thing to Laws devil fruit power.
If haki can amplify it there is nothing beside Yonkos haki that he cannot cut then. Its like dubles
Seriously..
Strings are one thing but Laws fruit has different efect - its not power to split people at will/touch of finger but he creates physical strings that can be imbued with haki. With Laws power there is no object. Also Doflamingo strings create destrucion on physical rules, with destructive-killing effect while Laws devil fruit is by big part against any rules of nature and has completely different effect of usage(not killing anybody, splitting person with fingers etc). Imbuing sword with haki is something to amplify damage to DF users, hardness etc
If Law went all out and you people assume he went for haki imbuing his sword as well then why we dont see blackening effect on blade hm?
We seen Zoros blade being CoA hardened in last chapter, Law was shown to use CoA hardening on his arms when fighting Doflamingo so he is capable of it and what you imply makes no sense if he used "invisible" haki to beat Vergo while going all out against him.
You didnt changed my mind- Mingos and Laws power are very different and its pretty bad argument to compare one to another to prove your point.
Law's ability to cut people in half without killing them is part of his ability. It makes no sense that Haki would allow him to make those cuts lethal
I'm not really arguing that he used it on Vergo, but rather the whole logic about Haki allowing Law to kill with his ability.
After all, by that logic, Smoker would have died when Law used Coa Mes on him.
Law's ability to cut people in half without killing them is part of his ability. It makes no sense that Haki would allow him to make those cuts lethal
I'm not really arguing that he used it on Vergo, but rather the whole logic about Haki allowing Law to kill with his ability.
After all, by that logic, Smoker would have died when Law used Coa Mes on him.
Doflamingos example is bad because he creates physical object with his power that has cutting specific. Laws power is cutting up anything inside room even without contact with blade, his DF ability seems to be used with sword to make it more precise and thats all.
King Cannon maybe I will try to explain my pov bit more, reusing some lines - Laws power seems to be not having physical form of any sorts so in my opinion it cannot be imbued with haki.
Cutting somebody with coa hardened sword even for Law would have deadly effect imo as his ability is separate thing with sword being medium to it.
He would have to split somebody with DF power, not with haki.
Its like saying that Fujitora can make his gravity stronger or more lethal with haki - some devil fruit powers almost certainly cannot be imbued with haki and thats the thing.
No physical form or effect on power.
Laws power is to cut stuff so what would CoA give him ? A boost ? Its enough for his ability to be stronger than his enemys CoA haki to cut somebody up, 0 need for haki as it gives, adds nothing to his ability and its not like its summing up damage or anything.
I dont know how to word what I think better.
As for Mes we have no idea if haki is needed for capturing in box part of logias body. You have to remember that Smoker was taken in by suprise so cutting up part of his body not being turned into smoke could be a thing. Perhaps there was no need for haki.
Also Mes/ Scalpel inside Room seems to be different than when used outside of it - fight with Doflamingo suggested that Mes used outside of room has lethal effect so if Law would use his ability outside of room it could let him kill that somebody.
King Cannon maybe I will try to explain my pov bit more, reusing some lines - Laws power seems to be not having physical form of any sorts so in my opinion it cannot be imbued with haki.
Cutting somebody with coa hardened sword even for Law would have deadly effect imo as his ability is separate thing with sword being medium to it.
Uh, what?
If Law can cut things with a non-hardened sword, why can't he do it with a hardened one.
His cutting ability is as part of his DF moveset as any other. It's not a separate thing.
He would have to split somebody with DF power, not with haki.
He splits people with his DF power. There's no reason on why CoA would make it any different.
Its like saying that Fujitora can make his gravity stronger or more lethal with haki - some devil fruit powers almost certainly cannot be imbued with haki and thats the thing.
No physical form or effect on power.
Zoro is able to imbue wind with CoA as seen during Tashigi and Monet's fight.
Not a DF ability, but it shows that non-physical stuff can be imbued with CoA.
Laws power is to cut stuff so what would CoA give him ? A boost ? Its enough for his ability to be stronger than his enemys CoA haki to cut somebody up, 0 need for haki as it gives, adds nothing to his ability and its not like its summing up damage or anything.
I dont know how to word what I think better.
In that case, having CoA as a means of protection against Law's DF becomes a pointless detail.
As for Mes we have no idea if haki is needed for capturing in box part of logias body. You have to remember that Smoker was taken in by suprise so cutting up part of his body not being turned into smoke could be a thing. Perhaps there was no need for haki.
Also Mes/ Scalpel inside Room seems to be different than when used outside of it - fight with Doflamingo suggested that Mes used outside of room has lethal effect so if Law would use his ability outside of room it could let him kill that somebody.
All of Law's attacks require Room to use. There's no such thing as attacks done outside Room.
It's just that the nature of Law's DF makes it very hard for Oda to keep up with, as any time Law used his ability, we would need a shot of the Room itself appearing every time. There are several times where Law used Shambles without any Room in sight, but we know he needs to create it first in order to use Shambles as seen when he saved Sanji from Doula.
Oh, and there was a Room when he used Mes against Doula Mongo.
And he needed Haki because Smoker wasn't caught by surprise. Law had time to speak to him before using the attack.
Uh, what?
If Law can cut things with a non-hardened sword, why can't he do it with a hardened one.
His cutting ability is as part of his DF moveset as any other. It's not a separate thing.
I mean for haki and his df power being separate one from other.
He splits people with his DF power. There's no reason on why CoA would make it any different.
Okay I get you. I though that you agree on adding haki to Laws attacks as it serves no purpose if his power is to cut and haki power is to amplify damage.
If he fails to cut somebody with his power and then his haki would overcome somebodys else haki then he would be dealing damage, cut somebody with nasty result.
Zoro is able to imbue wind with CoA as seen during Tashigi and Monet's fight.
Not a DF ability, but it shows that non-physical stuff can be imbued with CoA.
Not wind but pressurized air - its an object, air has mass and density on its own so highly pressurized is turned into that flying slashes. Its physical object doing damage to other physical object - not non-physical thing.
Air has 1/800 density of water - you would not deny water being physical thing.
In that case, having CoA as a means of protection against Law's DF becomes a pointless detail.
I have no idea why you say so.
All of Law's attacks require Room to use. There's no such thing as attacks done outside Room.
It's just that the nature of Law's DF makes it very hard for Oda to keep up with, as any time Law used his ability, we would need a shot of the Room itself appearing every time. There are several times where Law used Shambles without any Room in sight, but we know he needs to create it first in order to use Shambles as seen when he saved Sanji from Doula.
Oh, and there was a Room when he used Mes against Doula Mongo.
And he needed Haki because Smoker wasn't caught by surprise. Law had time to speak to him before using the attack.
Room was used in fight against DM as you say but as for Smoker speaking from behind pillar and attacking with suprise attack make me disagree. Point of making that pillar was to make it impossible for Smoker to react, to catch him by suprise.
Room was used in fight against DM as you say but as for Smoker speaking from behind pillar and attacking with suprise attack make me disagree. Point of making that pillar was to make it impossible for Smoker to react, to catch him by suprise.
Even then, it seems very unlikely that Smoker would get caught on surprise considering that he was in the middle of a fight. His powers should have been activated at the time.
I mean, Smoker is a Vice-Admiral. His ability should be activated on reflex. Are you telling me he became solid on purpose just to let Law use Mes on him?
@LUFFYSMC:
Think MKJC was just speaking while comparing them in timing to learn/ usefulness…
But personally don't see BB being that balanced a fighter. So he's either IMHO, gonna completely lack CoO, CoC, endurance, or CoA, ( excluding a possibility of limited amount of CoA defense as a sort of last minute trump/ ace card to protect himself should something happen to his powers); or be no where as concrete, or above average as 1 might think a veteran of the NW might be.
First, Blackbeard is likely the individual with the highest endurance in the One Piece World. He take hits like a champ. We already know BB possesses CoO as he mentions Luffy's haki in both Jaya and Impel Down. It would be rather strange if BB doesn't exhibit CoA, because, one, he fought Shanks to a stalemate in a fair battle before getting his devil fruits, and two, even scrubs like Bellamy have
CoA. Now, BB might not have of CoC, but even that I highly doubt.
Even then, it seems very unlikely that Smoker would get caught on surprise considering that he was in the middle of a fight. His powers should have been activated at the time.
I mean, Smoker is a Vice-Admiral. His ability should be activated on reflex. Are you telling me he became solid on purpose just to let Law use Mes on him?
I mean that in my eyes logias can be taken by suprise and thats how I seen scene with Law finishing fight with Smoker.
We even had (in)famous scene with Ace/ Luffy and Smoker with them getting hit by suprise. Reflex is one thing but when your enemy creates distraction you can get caught off guard.
!
When you dont know what enemys attack does you might get caught by its effect in situation like this one.
And distraction was created exactly when Smoker was attacking so it could have also played part in Law expecting him being more solid/ knowing his body position etc
Its like Law placed Smoker in perfect place, made a distraction and finished him off. Thats how I see it.
I mean that in my eyes logias can be taken by suprise and thats how I seen scene with Law finishing fight with Smoker.
We even had (in)famous scene with Ace/ Luffy and Smoker with them getting hit by suprise. Reflex is one thing but when your enemy creates distraction you can get caught off guard.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Jdh0cRZeIbU/T3M8eUL5UFI/AAAAAAAAI_g/4KO_1J7c31o/s1600/m_onepiece_662.jpgWhen you dont know what enemys attack does you might get caught by its effect in situation like this one.
And distraction was created exactly when Smoker was attacking so it could have also played part in Law expecting him being more solid/ knowing his body position etc
Its like Law placed Smoker in perfect place, made a distraction and finished him off. Thats how I see it.
Again, it makes no sense for Smoker to even consider becoming solid in this situation. Attacking somebody who is off guard is one thing, a surprise attack is another (especially because the off guard situation was in the middle of a fight). Basically, you're arguing Smoker stopped using his Logia ability when he had no reason to.
It's just more likely that Law used CoA to bypass Smoker's Logia ability. We know he has CoA anyway.
Again, it makes no sense for Smoker to even consider becoming solid in this situation. Attacking somebody who is off guard is one thing, a surprise attack is another (especially because the off guard situation was in the middle of a fight). Basically, you're arguing Smoker stopped using his Logia ability when he had no reason to.
It's just more likely that Law used CoA to bypass Smoker's Logia ability. We know he has CoA anyway.
I just mean that if somebody turns for example arm into smoke it doesnt mean that he turned entire body into logia.
Those things seem to be activated on reflex and entire point of pillar poping up between Law and Smoker was to creat distraction so Soker can be caught while attacking by counter attack.
And I dont say it was impossible for CoA being used there, I see it as less likely than what I wrote so we can agree on having different perspectives.
The Ace, Luffy and Smoker scene was clearly a joke… Its like saying nami uses Haki to hit Luffy...
I agree. Blackbeard must be quite strong without his devil fruit if he was able to hurt Shanks.
But I disagree on Blackbeard's plan being to capture Ace. Blackbeard is not the planning sort of guy.
He had one goal for which he outlined a few simple steps.He wanted to get strong people from Impel Down
To go to impel down, he must have connections with government, i.e. he should be a Shichibukai.
To become shichibukai, he would have to do something big.And that's it. When Luffy defeated Crocodile, Blackbeard thought defeating Luffy would be good enough for getting in limelight.
Ace was never his concern from the start. It was Ace who butted in his "plan" of attacking Luffy.
There is no way he could have planned that ahead. He just thought - "All right, Ace if notorious too. Capturing him instead of Luffy would good enough."He didn't plan to weaken and defeat Whitebeard from the start. But when he saw Whitebeard fighting for Ace, the opportunity came before him and he took it.
I agree. Not so much of a plan to get to ace as said points, but from then on Blackbeard found a way to get WBs DF. I'm sure tthat's what he had wanted. WB knew that killing ace would have WB against him. So he turned him over and directed it elsewhere
The Ace, Luffy and Smoker scene was clearly a joke… Its like saying nami uses Haki to hit Luffy...
When Nami hurts Luffy it may not be just for gags. Oda directly stated that Garp hurt Luffy with love not Haki. What ever it meant it was the the title of the chapter and the characters made a big deal out of it for a moment. Before Rayleigh many of us thought "love" might be some branch of Haki, hahaha. I know I did.
Folks who read One Piece… Just better people. ¯\(ツ)/¯ 
can we all just agree that Haki has just become meaningless in the sense people will win because their Haki is stronger than your haki because Oda said so. bah.
HOW COME LUFFY NEVER KILLS AN ENEMY?
ODA:ITS BECAUSE IN THAT ERA EVERYONE USES THEIR LIVES TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS. FOR AN ENEMY WHEN THEIR DREAM HAS BEEN SHATTERED,IT IS AS PAINFUL AS DEATH,I BELIEVE FOR A PIRATE NOT TO KILL AN ENEMY , IT'S GIVING THEM A SECOND CHANCE TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS.
When Nami hurts Luffy it may not be just for gags. Oda directly stated that Garp hurt Luffy with love not Haki. What ever it meant it was the the title of the chapter and the characters made a big deal out of it for a moment. Before Rayleigh many of us thought "love" might be some branch of Haki, hahaha. I know I did.
Also Sir Crocodile stated about how people was only relying on fruit power instead training and even understand it. In the anime this was complemented with the skill to use the fruit by reaction, which i would accept as canon.
Not wind but pressurized air - its an object, air has mass and density on its own so highly pressurized is turned into that flying slashes. Its physical object doing damage to other physical object - not non-physical thing.
Air has 1/800 density of water - you would not deny water being physical thing.
I love you 
Nothing exists; even if something exists, nothing can be known about it. Even if something can be known about it,
knowledge about it can't be communicated to others. Even if it can be communicated, it cannot be understood.
can we all just agree that Haki has just become meaningless in the sense people will win because their Haki is stronger than your haki because Oda said so. bah.
Not really. Several Haki users have been defeated by non-Haki users.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I just mean that if somebody turns for example arm into smoke it doesnt mean that he turned entire body into logia.
Those things seem to be activated on reflex and entire point of pillar poping up between Law and Smoker was to creat distraction so Soker can be caught while attacking by counter attack.And I dont say it was impossible for CoA being used there, I see it as less likely than what I wrote so we can agree on having different perspectives.
Do you even know what reflex is?
If you do, then you should know that distracting Smoker would not stop him from being able to become smoke the moment he feels a strike.
Question how would they show a sword user using haki?
Question how would they show a sword user using haki?
Like how Zoro was shown in the latest chapter?
Yes did he use haki to defeat pica or was that raw strength? It's been bothering me
Yes did he use haki to defeat pica or was that raw strength? It's been bothering me
There's a panel of his sword darkening.
Yes did he use haki to defeat pica or was that raw strength? It's been bothering me
Didn't you read last chapter? The whole Zoro sword turning black thing? If you couldn't tell then look at the sword in Zoro mouth the handle is totally black which is not its color.
@Shobu:
I love you
Thats okay, it will pass.
and Thank you.. I guess
Do you even know what reflex is?
If you do, then you should know that distracting Smoker would not stop him from being able to become smoke the moment he feels a strike.
Do you even lift ???
But of course I know, mind me keeping my opinion on that scene as it was.
Thing is that Law didnt touched him so he didnt felt anything before it was too late and heart was out.
Do you even lift ???
But of course I know, mind me keeping my opinion on that scene as it was.
Thing is that Law didnt touched him so he didnt felt anything before it was too late and heart was out.
He certainly would feel his heart being removed. Law's Mes does cause wounding even if it's not fatal.
But the point is, we know Law has Haki, so it's not weird that he can imbue it into his DF moves. Better than just explaining with "this specific move works on Logias for contrived reasons". Even you have trouble explaining it.
Nothing really explains why Mes should work against Logias while his other moves don't. The move itself is just Law cutting off a part of the body like he does with his sword, but using his fingers instead and in a precise spot instead of sections. It's not really a complicated move.
He certainly would feel his heart being removed. Law's Mes does cause wounding even if it's not fatal.
But the point is, we know Law has Haki, so it's not weird that he can imbue it into his DF moves. Better than just explaining with "this specific move works on Logias for contrived reasons". Even you have trouble explaining it.
Nothing really explains why Mes should work against Logias while his other moves don't. The move itself is just Law cutting off a part of the body like he does with his sword, but using his fingers instead and in a precise spot instead of sections. It's not really a complicated move.
Feel heart being removed? This entire technique was used in splitsecond and process of heart removal itself was too for Smoker to react for Smoker.
He acknowledged what happened when it was already done.
On other hand your arguments are not covincing, I mean it looks like its your choice to assume that it was haki in scene where Law created distraction to use "one hit KO" move.
No need for haki there as scene was drawn in a way suggesting purely Laws tactics and ability being at work.
Feel heart being removed? This entire technique was used in splitsecond and process of heart removal itself was too for Smoker to react for Smoker.
He acknowledged what happened when it was already done.On other hand your arguments are not covincing, I mean it looks like its your choice to assume that it was haki in scene where Law created distraction to use "one hit KO" move.
No need for haki there as scene was drawn in a way suggesting purely Laws tactics and ability being at work.
Smoker lost to law fair and square. Smoker even showed that he knew how op-op fruit works, so he should've been more careful. It was a fight anything happens in a fight, smoker lost because he wasn't ready to take on guys like that.
Feel heart being removed? This entire technique was used in splitsecond and process of heart removal itself was too for Smoker to react for Smoker.
He acknowledged what happened when it was already done.On other hand your arguments are not covincing, I mean it looks like its your choice to assume that it was haki in scene where Law created distraction to use "one hit KO" move.
No need for haki there as scene was drawn in a way suggesting purely Laws tactics and ability being at work.
Doesn't matter how fast the move was. Reflex is reflex. You can't bypass reflex no matter how fast.
Heck, the entire point of being to turn into something through reflex is to avoid attacks that you can't see coming.
And really, you would think that the scene of the latest chapter, with an elite officer covering his entire body in CoA and then being sliced because his Haki was weaker, would explain Law and Vergo in hindsight considering the amount of similarities.
If the reason that Law was able to bypass Vergo's Haki was solely his Devil Fruit (despite the fact that both Doula Mongo and Smoker themselves confirmed that Haki was a way to protect oneself from Law's ability), then you end up with a contradiction that also happens to be an asspull (never mind what Smoker and Doula Mongo said, this Devil Fruit can unexpectedly bypass Haki) and an useless detail (because the detail itself ends up being false as Haki actually doesn't protect you from Law's DF at all. Why bother introducing it in the first place?). Haki + Devil Fruit actually offers a more consistent explanation that is also supported by a later event (Zoro and Pica in this case).
If the reason that Law was able to bypass Vergo's Haki was solely his Devil Fruit (despite the fact that both Doula Mongo and Smoker themselves confirmed that Haki was a way to protect oneself from Law's ability), then you end up with a contradiction that also happens to be an asspull and an useless detail (because the detail itself ends up being false as Haki actually doesn't protect you from Law's DF at all). Haki + Devil Fruit actually offers a better explanation that is also supported by a later scense (Zoro and Pica in this case).
As for reflex - sure thing you can bypass reflex - check out first example that comes to my mind Boa Sisters vs Luffy - they could not react to Luffy using Gear Second at all, haki and their reflexes didnt helped them at all. If hit lands its already too late for me.
What is shown being done on reflex is using CoA hardening lately, thats doing something/ countering on reflex for me. For example Luffy using CoA hardening and taking in some force of Bellamys punch on purpose was situation where one person managed to react in time to other persons attack. I do think that turning your body completely into element is also "triggered" same way- thought -> act process. With Smoker he was just seeing as he has lost his heart and it was already too late. You wanna force into me that how you seen that scene? 
I acknowledge your opinion, I keep mine bit higher in my rank, nothing wrong with it as you do same thing. I agree with you on number of times in different threads but here I dont think same.
I honestly dont really understand how haki + devil fruit is any better explanation for Law cutting Vergo in half. There was no indication of using haki by Law on his sword, non. Just his devil fruit power was enough for him to cut up Vergo through hardening.
"Because the detail itself ends up being false as Haki actually doesn't protect you from Law's DF at all" - Vergos haki does not, that was point of that scene for me.
Admirals/ Yonko surely have haki strong enough for stopping Laws DF.
As for reflex - sure thing you can bypass reflex - check out first example that comes to my mind Boa Sisters vs Luffy - they could not react to Luffy using Gear Second at all, haki and their reflexes didnt helped them at all. If hit lands its already too late for me.
That's not what reflex is, that's reaction time.
What is shown being done on reflex is using CoA hardening lately, thats doing something/ countering on reflex for me. For example Luffy using CoA hardening and taking in some force of Bellamys punch on purpose was situation where one person managed to react in time to other persons attack. I do think that turning your body completely into element is also "triggered" same way- thought -> act process. With Smoker he was just seeing as he has lost his heart and it was already too late. You wanna force into me that how you seen that scene?
Again, that's not what reflex is.
Reflex is closer to what Buggy did when Mihawk slashed him. He didn't see the attacks coming, but still split involuntarily.
That's what Crocodile meant by transforming through reflex as it means you can't really be taken by surprise. Basically, you prevent the weakness of having to consciously activate your abilities.
I honestly dont really understand how haki + devil fruit is any better explanation for Law cutting Vergo in half. There was no indication of using haki by Law on his sword, non. Just his devil fruit power was enough for him to cut up Vergo through hardening.
"Because the detail itself ends up being false as Haki actually doesn't protect you from Law's DF at all" - Vergos haki does not, that was point of that scene for me.
Admirals/ Yonko surely have haki strong enough for stopping Laws DF.
Fair enough. Still doesn't prove that Law can't imbue Haki on his DF moves.
Especially when you consider that Smoker was smoke when Law used Mes. You can see smoke around the spot where his heart was, meaning that Law did need Haki to remove it.
Jeez you are persisten, I give you that :happy:
Reflex-reaction time - close enough. What I meant in fact.
As for MES - haki is not always needed to capture logias body(Franky capturing Caribou. Likely MES puts a piece of person in a "box".
Like we seen how small that cube with heart is but it flew through Smokers back and landed on the ground. Hints to his body being in smoke form(yet Laws ability captured crucial organ).
So as you said Smokers body being smoke doesnt mean that haki had to be used.
As for MES - haki is not always needed to capture logias body(Franky capturing Caribou. Likely MES puts a piece of person in a "box".
Like we seen how small that cube with heart is but it flew through Smokers back and landed on the ground. Hints to his body being in smoke form(yet Laws ability captured crucial organ).
So as you said Smokers body being smoke doesnt mean that haki had to be used.
Pretty sure the box is just flesh.
And even if it wasn't, he would need Haki to be able to hit Smoker in the first place. If Law had not used Haki, the heart would've just turned into smoke instead of being separated from his body.
Pretty sure the box is just flesh.
And even if it wasn't, he would need Haki to be able to hit Smoker in the first place. If Law had not used Haki, the heart would've just turned into smoke instead of being separated from his body.
Nope. I mean that you assume that while we disussed and disagreed on reflex-reaction time thing.
I think that it was simply part of Smokers body captured with Laws ability after creating distraction and giving no time to Smoker for some reaction.
You think its impossible without haki or that heart would just turned into smoke instead of being separated.
KC lets call it quits okay? I disagree with you, deal with it
Nope. I mean that you assume that while we disussed and disagreed on reflex-reaction time thing.
I think that it was simply part of Smokers body captured with Laws ability after creating distraction and giving no time to Smoker for some reaction.You think its impossible without haki or that heart would just turned into smoke instead of being separated.
Smoker's chest was smoke when Law used Mes. Look at the page again.
Basically, Smoker's body was still smoke even with the distraction.
This means that Law somehow was able to remove Smoker's heart even though it was smoke too. And Haki has been consistently the only way to treat Logias as if they were solid.
And if Mes could affect Logias even without Haki, you would think that would've been explained in the story. Or else it would be just confusing.
I mean, anybody would just assume Haki was used based on information at he time. You're the only one who thinks otherwise.
Smoker's chest was smoke when Law used Mes. Look at the page again.
Basically, Smoker's body was still smoke even with the distraction.
This means that Law somehow was able to remove Smoker's heart even though it was smoke too. And Haki has been consistently the only way to treat Logias as if they were solid.
And if Mes could affect Logias even without Haki, you would think that would've been explained in the story. Or else it would be just confusing.
I mean, anybody would just assume Haki was used based on information at he time. You're the only one who thinks otherwise.
Doesnt make me certainly wrong or does not change anything in this situation.
Doesnt make me certainly wrong.
Oda tends to be a very obvious writer. If Mes was something that could affect Logias without the need of Haki, he would have explained it.
But with no explanation found, we just go with Occam's Razor (Haki).
For example, Law's Radio Knife had its special effect explained mostly because we couldn't guess it visually alone.
Oda tends to be a very obvious writer. If Mes was something that could affect Logias without the need of Haki, he would have explained it.
But with no explanation found, we just go with Occam's Razor (Haki).
For example, Law's Radio Knife had its special effect explained mostly because we couldn't guess it visually alone.
Laws role didnt ended yet, Oda also likes to change perspective on some things in time - for example Zoros haki being used on his swords against Pica shown that there was no haki being used by Law against Vergo back on Punk Hazard in that final slash.
Occams Razor seems to be your last line of argumentation and we both know that its double edged and doesnt change anything as its another example of approach that can be taken, not decisive argument or proof of anything.
Laws role didnt ended yet, Oda also likes to change perspective on some things in time - for example Zoros haki being used on his swords against Pica shown that there was no haki being used by Law against Vergo back on Punk Hazard in that final slash.
Not really. Unless you want to argue Tashigi didn't use Haki there. Or here.
Usually, when we see a Logia being hit, that serves as alternate indication that Haki is used. Remember how Luffy's arms weren't darkened when he held Caesar.
This same logic can be applied to Law's Mes.
Occams Razor seems to be your last line of argumentation and we both know that its double edged and doesnt change anything as its another example of approach that can be taken, not decisive argument or proof of anything.
I did way more argumentation than Occam's Razor.
Like the fact that Smoker had his powers activated when Law used Mes.
