Well at least no time will be wasted with the other zero squad guys.
Bleach Discussion 0: Hello Darkness my old friend
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Or maybe you could just be a little nicer over something as trivial as a member forgetting a detail out of a clusterfuck these last couple of chapters have been.
I don't recall insulting anyone? Lets not make a mountain out of a molehill.
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We know 3 out of 5 of the RG's Zanpakutou names and saw them each showcase a few abilities before going down.
We saw 2 Zanpakuto. And only Ichibei did anything worthwhile with his.
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We saw 2 Zanpakuto. And only Ichibei did anything worthwhile with his.
We saw 3.
Tenjirō Kirinji's Kinpika
Ōetsu Nimaiya's Sayabuse
Ichibē Hyōsube's Ichimonji -
Actually, this isn't the first time for someone to come back to life just by calling his name, remember Ichigo vs Ulquiorra.
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Guys this is just Bleach remaining hilariously bad, it's why we read it to begin with right?
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The best thing was The Jump Heroes - Boku No Academia spread on page 3 (manga stream)
http://readms.com/r/bleach/611/2644/3 -
I really wanna stop reading this crap, but I can't help myself when there is very low chance of seeing Chad being useful in any chapter
could you define useful? :ninja:
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could you define useful? :ninja:
In this case defeating a Steirnritern or whatever they are called.
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Guys this is just Bleach remaining hilariously bad, it's why we read it to begin with right?
I read it because I enjoy it.
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Member of Beelzebub is Freakin' Awesome Group
what I'm catching up on currently: Gintama, lone wolf & cub, Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind, and lost in poem (by our very own AP member GEPPETTOSMONSTER)
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We saw 3.
Tenjirō Kirinji's Kinpika
Ōetsu Nimaiya's Sayabuse
Ichibē Hyōsube's IchimonjiSayabuse is just a sword he forged. It's not his own Zanpakuto.
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You mean besides his throat getting crushed? -_- It'd be really great if you people who never have anything positive to say about Bleach would at the very least make informed criticisms before crying "Asspull Kewbue sux0rz!"
how all this pages related to power absorbing name at all or his name can make asspull power/attacks too?
another thing, if that is true, then is it better for him if juhabach called his name many times?
he can get some of that asspull power.
another thing, is that is true, why introducing name half deleted half power lose technique when he can just absorb that asspull power? -
I read it because I enjoy it.
There is no problem with enjoying the series as long as you actually are aware of it's countless flaws and dont think it is actually well written.^^ Hell, I enjoy watching almost all michael bay movies, but I know that many of them are pretty stupid. xD
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At this rate Kubo might even be able to surpass Naruto's awful last arc .
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really? squad 0 is already defeated? we only got to see 2 or 3 of them fight!
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Gotta say, best part this chapter is seeing everyone running towards the area the bad guys are at, and by best I mean laughable. Are we supposed to believe that Chad and everyone else not named Ichigo are capable of beating the people who took down Zero Squad.
Also, Kubo has to jerk off on his Ichigo boner by having Monk guy say only Ichigo can stop Bach. Also, the whole Soul King being Bach's father is not even remotely interesting.
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@Doffy.:
At this rate Kubo might even be able to surpass Naruto's awful last arc .
He kind of already did.
By far.
In wrong way.
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Ichibei tells Ichigo that the Soul King's death would result in Seireitei, Hueco Mundo and Earth being destroyed
One is a desert slaughterhouse and the other is a massive slum that's worse in some areas than where most of its people came from. As far as I'm concerned, they're already destroyed.
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are you like 5 yrs old?
What does my age have to do with the thread topic? Better question… why do you read it if you hate it so much? Don't you have anything better to do with yourself than suffer through reading something you apparently hate and act like a condescending a-hole to people who do find it enjoyable?
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Is there really a need for insults here? Better question… why do you read it if you hate it so much? Don't you have anything better to do with yourself?
It literally takes me 3 minutes to read Bleach, if not less. The panels are crazily oversized to the point that it's a brisk read. I usually read it while I'm multitasking with something else.
I do have a question for you. What quality would you consider Bleach from the beginning to Soul Society? What quality do you consider it to be now?
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There is no problem with enjoying the series as long as you actually are aware of it's countless flaws and dont think it is actually well written.^^ Hell, I enjoy watching almost all michael bay movies, but I know that many of them are pretty stupid. xD
Find me a series in Jump that isn't littered with flaws and that you actually consider a literary masterpiece, lol. Comparatively speaking, they all 'suck' and it'd be a stretch to tote any of them as anything more than brain candy, much like Michael Bay films. Remember, these authors are writing to 12 - 15yr olds, not grown men and women in their early to mid 20's who scrutinize every panel and piece of (usually mistranslated) dialogue looking only for 'plot holes' and 'ass pulls' they can rip the author for.
It literally takes me 3 minutes to read Bleach, if not less. The panels are crazily oversized to the point that it's a brisk read. I usually read it while I'm multitasking with something else.
I do have a question for you. What quality would you consider Bleach from the beginning to Soul Society? What quality do you consider it to be now?
Soul Society 8/10
1000 Year Blood War Arc 7/10
Overall thoughts on Bleach is that it's a decent shounen manga.
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Comperatively speaking they don't all suck. And bleach is one of the worst.
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Comperatively speaking they don't all suck. And bleach is one of the worst.
Then I take it you don't read very much literature.
What an insightful and enlightening analysis, you've convinced me.
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Coming from a guy who gives this bleach arc a 7/10. Now tell me what actually makes it that good.
To support Viz and SHUEISHAs MANGA Plus service hosting all Jump manga for FREE, WORLDWIDE and day of release, Arlong Park will now support the official release.
Official chapter discussions now start Sundays at Noon, EST.
Please do not post threads when scan sites release their version.
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I can't take someone who would rate this arc 7/10 seriously. Sorry, I just can't.
Parts of it were on the level, but all in all?
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Coming from a guy who gives this bleach arc a 7/10. Now tell me what actually makes it that good.
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We have a new and interesting cast of villains with unique power schemes. Admittedly, I had grown bored with Aizen and his Arrancar by the time that conflict reached its resolution stages and the Fullbringer Arc didn't really do much for me, imo it was one of Bleaches lowest point.
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There's a sense of danger surrounding Yhwach and his Sternritter which is something Aizen and Arrancar sorely lacked. This arc has the highest good guy body count in the entire series; in fact, if memory serves, I don't think we had a major good guy death at all until this arc. Choujiro, Kira, Yamamoto, Unohana, Kensei, Rose, Matsumoto, Hitsugaya, possibly the Zero Division, and I'm sure Kubo isn't done spilling blood quite yet.
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Since the anime went on hiatus Kubo has really upped the gore content which I'm always a fan of.
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The female cast is finally competent! Rukia achieved Bankai and I remember when the Femritters showed up how everyone thought Kenpachi (and later Ichigo) was going to line them up and shoot them, lol.
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Kubo wrapping up a lot of loose ends and lingering questions I had coming into this arc. We finally got to see the Zero Division, the Soul King and Yhwach's relationship to him, new Bankai's, Grimmjow's return, the secret of Szayelaporro's lab, Isshin and Masaki's (Ichigo's parents) past and how they lost their powers, Ryuuken's past, Ichigo's ties to Kaien and the Shiba clan, Unohana's past, origin of Yachiru's namesake, the secret behind Zaraki's seemingly limitless potential.
The plot actually feels like it's moving toward a conclusion and that's something I can appreciate even if it isn't masterfully executed.
Now since I took the time to answer your question, I'd really appreciate it if you made an effort to tell me why you believe it's such a horrible series. I'm genuinely interested in what you think and trying to understand why we're on such opposite ends of the spectrum, but I can't do that if all you have to say is "it sucks."
I can't take someone who would rate this arc 7/10 seriously. Sorry, I just can't.
Parts of it were on the level, but all in all?
Why are you here if you don't have anything constructive to say?
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I agree with Louis. This has been a great arc, but the consensus on AP only seems like a conformist, immature reaction to it all. Especially the claims about "asspulls." The abilities of Yhwach and Hyousube are literally divine–which is why they seem so cheap. They reference religious works and posters on other forums have done a great job in dissecting this. There is no such discussion here. Posts are simply variations on the opinion that Bleach is bad. The peanut gallery always has an opinion but won't act to improve upon what they see. No offense, but it's tiring to those who actually want to talk about the series. If you will criticize, please be at least witty and original. That is enjoyable.
Though I always smiled when I read "Why me bane licking sad?"
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@Mr.:
I agree with Louis. This has been a great arc, but the consensus on AP only seems like a conformist, immature reaction to it all. Especially the claims about "asspulls." The abilities of Yhwach and Hyousube are literally divine–which is why they seem so cheap. They reference religious works and posters on other forums have done a great job in dissecting this. There is no such discussion here. Posts are simply variations on the opinion that Bleach is bad. The peanut gallery always has an opinion but won't act to improve upon what they see. No offense, but it's tiring to those who actually want to talk about the series. If you will criticize, please be at least witty and original. That is enjoyable.
Though I always smiled when I read "Why me bane licking sad?"
That's what pisses me off! That I can't come into the Bleach section and discuss the positives (and the negatives) of a chapter without being met with ridicule or halfhearted criticisms of whatever the latest "asspull" is.
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Find me a series in Jump that isn't littered with flaws and that you actually consider a literary masterpiece, lol. Comparatively speaking, they all 'suck' and it'd be a stretch to tote any of them as anything more than brain candy, much like Michael Bay films. Remember, these authors are writing to 12 - 15yr olds, not grown men and women in their early to mid 20's who scrutinize every panel and piece of (usually mistranslated) dialogue looking only for 'plot holes' and 'ass pulls' they can rip the author for.
that seems to be a common misconception..just because something is for kids,it doesn't mean it can't be good,or coherent,or both:wassat:
also,there's a big difference between something flawed if you "scrutinize every panel" and being bleach
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that seems to be a common misconception..just because something is for kids,it doesn't mean it can't be good,or coherent,or both:wassat:
also,there's a big difference between something flawed if you "scrutinize every panel" and being bleach
I didn't say that?
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You know, I actually enjoyed Bleach until this arc started. But the fights are always the same and the Sternritter aren't a real threat for me. Hell, Kubo probably didn't know what to do with the rest of the Sternritter and just used Auswählen to make them powerless. Their powers may be unique but Kubo isn't good at using the powers of the Sternritter, the best example is Gremmy. Most of their personality's seem to be rather bland, too.
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I didn't say that?
you said that w shouldn't criticize bleach for his evident plotholes because it's written for 12-15 years old children
and that is definitely not an excuse…you as an author have the same duty to write a good story,even if your audience it's composed by 3 years old
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you said that w shouldn't criticize bleach for his evident plotholes because it's written for 12-15 years old children
and that is definitely not an excuse…you as an author have the same duty to write a good story,even if your audience it's composed by 3 years old
I keep hearing about these "plotholes" but nobody bothers to elaborate on what they are.
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@Louis-198885394:
- We have a new and interesting cast of villains with unique power schemes. Admittedly, I had grown bored with Aizen and his Arrancar by the time that conflict reached its resolution stages and the Fullbringer Arc didn't really do much for me, imo it was one of Bleaches lowest point.
They are the same thing, actually.
@Louis-198885394:- There's a sense of danger surrounding Yhwach and his Sternritter which is something Aizen and Arrancar sorely lacked. This arc has the highest good guy body count in the entire series; in fact, if memory serves, I don't think we had a major good guy death at all until this arc. Choujiro, Kira, Yamamoto, Unohana, Kensei, Rose, Matsumoto, Hitsugaya, possibly the Zero Division, and I'm sure Kubo isn't done spilling blood quite yet.
Why is that a good thing?
@Louis-198885394:- Since the anime went on hiatus Kubo has really upped the gore content which I'm always a fan of.
What?
@Louis-198885394:- The female cast is finally competent! Rukia achieved Bankai and I remember when the Femritters showed up how everyone thought Kenpachi (and later Ichigo) was going to line them up and shoot them, lol.
Just because they are female and having a couple of chapters about they its positive?
@Louis-198885394:- Kubo wrapping up a lot of loose ends and lingering questions I had coming into this arc. We finally got to see the Zero Division, the Soul King and Yhwach's relationship to him, new Bankai's, Grimmjow's return, the secret of Szayelaporro's lab, Isshin and Masaki's (Ichigo's parents) past and how they lost their powers, Ryuuken's past, Ichigo's ties to Kaien and the Shiba clan, Unohana's past, origin of Yachiru's namesake, the secret behind Zaraki's seemingly limitless potential.
Okay that makes sense, but it was still poorly done.
@Louis-198885394:Now since I took the time to answer your question, I'd really appreciate it if you made an effort to tell me why you believe it's such a horrible series. I'm genuinely interested in what you think and trying to understand why we're on such opposite ends of the spectrum, but I can't do that if all you have to say is "it sucks."
Why are you here if you don't have anything constructive to say?
All in all, you are saying "The villains are so strong, OMG, nobody can defeat they, best series ever because its like Dragonball".
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That was awful.
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- We have a new and interesting cast of villains with unique power schemes. Admittedly, I had grown bored with Aizen and his Arrancar by the time that conflict reached its resolution stages and the Fullbringer Arc didn't really do much for me, imo it was one of Bleaches lowest point.
Interesting cast? The most they have is just a bland personality, and their powers are equally uncreative. We have a girl who just gets pissed really easily and can only blow up stuff, we have a man who just talks only about fear. And his powers are about making the enemy paralyzed with fear. Go figure. We even have Quincy Zommari, hardly anything I would call new. And that's without going into Quinzi leader. We still don't know why he's doing this. Or why anyone is serving him despite the fact that they know he'll just kill them on a whim. They have no dreams, no motivations, nothing that makes them a character. They only have enough to move the plot foward before just dying off to no one's dismay.
- There's a sense of danger surrounding Yhwach and his Sternritter which is something Aizen and Arrancar sorely lacked. This arc has the highest good guy body count in the entire series; in fact, if memory serves, I don't think we had a major good guy death at all until this arc. Choujiro, Kira, Yamamoto, Unohana, Kensei, Rose, Matsumoto, Hitsugaya, possibly the Zero Division, and I'm sure Kubo isn't done spilling blood quite yet.
So Aizen basically walking over every single captain and Visored isn't threatening? Okay. Also, the only person's whose death really mattered was Yamamoto. Chojiro? It's a great thing we saw Ichigo knock him out with one punch like 500 chapters ago. It really shows how threatening our new villains are. Kira and Matsumoto? Just a vice captain, far below the power of the captains. Unohana let herself be killed. Rose basically told his enemy how to beat him, and I don't even remember how Kensei even lost. And Shrimpo is good only for jobbing and nothing else. So yeah, nothing really new for them. And Zero squad just got curbstomped offscreen. Not really the best way to show how strong your enemies are. Show, don't tell. Also, isn't it great that Orihime is here to save Zero Squad? Now I'm really on the edge of my seat, wondering if they'll die or not.
- Since the anime went on hiatus Kubo has really upped the gore content which I'm always a fan of.
It's one thing to like gore. But it's not a substitute for actual character development, plot, etc.
- The female cast is finally competent! Rukia achieved Bankai and I remember when the Femritters showed up how everyone thought Kenpachi (and later Ichigo) was going to line them up and shoot them, lol.
Rukia had to be bailed out by her brother before she could use her Bankai. And aside from Zero squad chick, not a single woman won a battle this whole arc. Girl power indeed.
- Kubo wrapping up a lot of loose ends and lingering questions I had coming into this arc. We finally got to see the Zero Division, the Soul King and Yhwach's relationship to him, new Bankai's, Grimmjow's return, the secret of Szayelaporro's lab, Isshin and Masaki's (Ichigo's parents) past and how they lost their powers, Ryuuken's past, Ichigo's ties to Kaien and the Shiba clan, Unohana's past, origin of Yachiru's namesake, the secret behind Zaraki's seemingly limitless potential.
-I'll give you the whole Isshin, Masaki, and Ryuuken stuff.
-Komamura's old bankai was a giant. His new bankai was also a giant. And I don't even remember who else got a new bankai.
-Zero squad had so little screen time before they went down. We didn't even see the rest of them fight, or what their powers were. Soul King hasn't said a word, and the only thing we know about him is that he's the lynchpin. And we learned that 200 chapters ago.
-Grimmjow hasn't even appeared onscreen. And killing someone from offscreen and doing nothing else is hardly what I'd call a good payoff.
-Ichigo was related to the Shiba clan, but it wasn't ever brought up again. Hell, Ganju and his sister don't even care anymore that Ichigo looks like Kaien.
-So we learned what was in Szayel's labs, 300 chapters later in the Quincy arc when it's irrelevant. And it wasn't even that important. What a great payoff for the long wait.- Zaraki, Unohana, Yachiru, all that was one giant mess. So Unohana was apparently super evil but then turned super pacifist… why? Zaraki is absurdly strong because why? It's all glossed over so quickly and incoherently. The most we got was that they met, then fought, kid Zaraki beat her, then nothing.
So almost all these important plot points had a really shitty payoff, especially given how long we were forced to wait. The really shitty execution doesn't help.
The plot actually feels like it's moving toward a conclusion and that's something I can appreciate even if it isn't masterfully executed.
It's been several years since this arc started, and the only thing of importance that happened is that Yamamoto died, and a bunch of quirky Quinzis died. Nope, the plot is still moving at the speed of a slug. It's pretty clear that Kubo's introduced way too much characters and stuff in general into his series instead of just properly developing a smaller cast. And it shows. It really shows. The end result is a train wreck of a plot that somehow moves too fast to properly develop everything in general, while somehow spreading out the content of each scene so that it moves too slow.
Basically, all the "cool" stuff in this manga isn't doing anything to stop the boat from sinking. Rather, it's what's causing the boat to sink in the first place, because there's too much crap inside.
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They are the same thing, actually.
This is a very compelling argument.
Why is that a good thing?
Maybe because I enjoy a sense of danger and uncertainty in the battle manga that I read? I like not being able to predict what's going to happen. I mean, who foresaw Kira's death? I thought it was very abrupt, and because it was so abrupt I found it jarring.
What?
I don't know what you're having difficulty understanding? The series is more graphic than it's ever been before and I'm a huge fan of blood and gore.
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Just because they are female and having a couple of chapters about they its positive?
I'm praising Kubo for making his female characters competent, powerful and relevant in a manga aimed primarily at the male demographic. Often times in a lot shounen manga (I won't name them) females are delegated to support/healing/damsel roles and I appreciate Kubo making an effort to confront that stale, archaic trend.
Okay that makes sense, but it was still poorly done.
HOW is it "poorly done"? Show me you aren't a bandwagoner and try to deconstruct my argument with some actual counterpoints. "It's bad"; "it sucks"; "it's poorly done" are not compelling arguments.
All in all, you are saying "The villains are so strong, OMG, nobody can defeat they, best series ever because its like Dragonball".
Your reading comprehension is absolutely abysmal if that's all your garnered from my posts. You should feel embarrassed.
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Hey guys remember that really cool and interesting cast of characters that I don't really know about because they just keep getting introduced and then killed like fodder
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I keep hearing about these "plotholes" but nobody bothers to elaborate on what they are.
This is a series that featured a character who can imagine things happening and they happen. Come on now.
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@Mr.:
I agree with Louis. This has been a great arc, but the consensus on AP only seems like a conformist, immature reaction to it all. Especially the claims about "asspulls." The abilities of Yhwach and Hyousube are literally divine–which is why they seem so cheap.
I think the problem was that Hyousube's abilities are random and come out of nowhere. Normally, there is Shikai, Bankai and Kido (to encompass anything else.) But Ichibei wasn't using his Zanpaktou until late fight, so all these abilities and stuff are so random. So just because he's divine, he can pull all sorts of moves out of his ass? Is he going to us them again?
None of their abilities are built up, and for chapter after chapter they seem to use random God moves because their divine and stuff lol. It doesn't matter if there's some deeply layered symbolism(which for it's own sake is pointless), if they are random, clearly made up on the spot and don't make sense, there's a problem.
Maybe, if they were each assigned a specific, understandable ability, hax or no, and kept using it to it's fullest, the fights would be clearer and ore interesting. And that's what Bleach had at first. Ichigo fought with his sword, and Byakuya had his flower petals. No random powers appearing there. (Even then, a Death God would be divine anyway, right?)
Edit: Also, on the flipside, a thread where everyone loves Bleach to death would also be conformist, wouldn't it? Birds of a feather flock together.
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First off; I appreciate the genuine reply. I'd like to see more of this in the section.
Interesting cast? The most they have is just a bland personality, and their powers are equally uncreative. We have a girl who just gets pissed really easily and can only blow up stuff, we have a man who just talks only about fear. And his powers are about making the enemy paralyzed with fear. Go figure. We even have Quincy Zommari, hardly anything I would call new. And that's without going into Quinzi leader. We still don't know why he's doing this. Or why anyone is serving him despite the fact that they know he'll just kill them on a whim. They have no dreams, no motivations, nothing that makes them a character. They only have enough to move the plot foward before just dying off to no one's dismay.
Mask De Masculine and Pepe Waccabrada are bland personalities? In my opinion they were fucking hilarious, especially Mask, I was actually a bit sad when he died because up to that point is was the most personable Sternitter to date. Furthermore; I don't think you're giving some of these characters their fair shakes. Sure, a few of them like Robert Accutrone seemed a little bland (because Kubo didn't develop them), but As Nodt and Pepe in particular had very philosophical outlooks on life centered around their power schemes. We also learned that As Nodt in particular is a religious man who fears the prospect of dying and going to hell and that Yhwach saved his life which is why he follows him so devoutly. To say he's bland because you dislike him is a little unfair.
So Aizen basically walking over every single captain and Visored isn't threatening? Okay. Also, the only person's whose death really mattered was Yamamoto. Chojiro? It's a great thing we saw Ichigo knock him out with one punch like 500 chapters ago. It really shows how threatening our new villains are. Kira and Matsumoto? Just a vice captain, far below the power of the captains. Unohana let herself be killed. Rose basically told his enemy how to beat him, and I don't even remember how Kensei even lost. And Shrimpo is good only for jobbing and nothing else. So yeah, nothing really new for them. And Zero squad just got curbstomped offscreen. Not really the best way to show how strong your enemies are. Show, don't tell. Also, isn't it great that Orihime is here to save Zero Squad? Now I'm really on the edge of my seat, wondering if they'll die or not.
it was impressive, but there was no consequence, he failed to leave an exclamation point the way Yhwach and his Sternritter have done and continue to do. Chojirou is a lot stronger than he let on against Ichigo. It was even stated in his flashback that he mastered his Bankai before Shunsui and Ukitake even achieved theirs and that he kept it a secret from the Gotei 13 (besides Yama) because of his loyalty to him and desire to remain nothing more than his right-hand man.
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Kira was relevant enough that his death made a lot of people think "Oh shit! These guys mean business", it's not like he was Hanataro or someone really obscure. The fact that he's had a few fights and a connection with Gin and Rangiku that was explored solidifies that.
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Rangiku might only be a VC, but she has captain-level reiatsu since the time-skip. Proof:
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- Unohana didn't allow herself to be killed, Kenpachi had to become powerful enough to do so. That was the point of the training.
It's one thing to like gore. But it's not a substitute for actual character development, plot, etc.
I hope I didn't imply that.
@Ouroboros:Rukia had to be bailed out by her brother before she could use her Bankai. And aside from Zero squad chick, not a single woman won a battle this whole arc. Girl power indeed.
Bambietta vs. Shinji? Candice and Meninas vs. Kenpachi? Liltotto vs. Pepe? Giselle killing Rangiku and Hitsugaya (granted it was off-panel)? How about Liltotto and Meninas berating Robert, NaNaNa and Candice for being weaklings before going on to say that they are stronger than them so it's not surprising? What about Liltotto and Giselle beign the only Sternritter being competent enough to dodge Yhwach's Auswahlen. Compared to quite a few of their male counterparts it's impossible to deny that they've ha d a decent showing.
-Komamura's old bankai was a giant. His new bankai was also a giant. And I don't even remember who else got a new bankai.
I meant we got to see new bankai. Rose, Kensei, Rukia, Komamura, Ichibei, etc
-Zero squad had so little screen time before they went down. We didn't even see the rest of them fight, or what their powers were. Soul King hasn't said a word, and the only thing we know about him is that he's the lynchpin. And we learned that 200 chapters ago.
I say give it time.
@Ouroboros:-Grimmjow hasn't even appeared onscreen. And killing someone from offscreen and doing nothing else is hardly what I'd call a good payoff.
See above.
@Ouroboros:-Ichigo was related to the Shiba clan, but it wasn't ever brought up again. Hell, Ganju and his sister don't even care anymore that Ichigo looks like Kaien.
Ichigo has barely interacted with the Shiba clan since the revelation. Again, give it time, there are kind of more pressing matters to attend to right now. It may have taken Kubo a while to reveal the origin of Yachiru's namesake, but he didn't forget about it and revisted the topic when the time was right.
@Ouroboros:-So we learned what was in Szayel's labs, 300 chapters later in the Quincy arc when it's irrelevant. And it wasn't even that important. What a great payoff for the long wait.
This is probably my bias talking, but I was satisfied with the reveal because I like the characters Charlotte Chuhlhourne and Dordoni xD. In fact I hope Dordoni gets a small reuinion with ichigo before the end of the series, lol. This is one of those things that are just highly subjective… you either love it or you don't give a shit.
@Ouroboros:- Zaraki, Unohana, Yachiru, all that was one giant mess. So Unohana was apparently super evil but then turned super pacifist… why? Zaraki is absurdly strong because why? It's all glossed over so quickly and incoherently. The most we got was that they met, then fought, kid Zaraki beat her, then nothing.
That's something I'd like an answer to as well, and I think we'll get it soon. We still haven't see the transition Yhwach spoke about a 100 or so chapters ago, the original Gotei 13 were a group of bloodthristy killers, but according to Yhwach, once the Quicy were eradicated they "died" and became the pacifist organization we know today.
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It's been several years since this arc started, and the only thing of importance that happened is that Yamamoto died, and a bunch of quirky Quinzis died. Nope, the plot is still moving at the speed of a slug. It's pretty clear that Kubo's introduced way too much characters and stuff in general into his series instead of just properly developing a smaller cast. And it shows. It really shows. The end result is a train wreck of a plot that somehow moves too fast to properly develop everything in general, while somehow spreading out the content of each scene so that it moves too slow.
The Zero Division was defeated and Yhwach just impaled the Soul king on his sword while revealing his relationship to him. If that isn't advancing the plot then I really don't know what is.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
This is a series that featured a character who can imagine things happening and they happen. Come on now.
How is this a plot hole? Do you even know what a plot hole is?
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We have a new and interesting cast of villains with unique power schemes. Never happened in Bleach before!
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There's a sense of danger ruined by weird apcing and jumping all over the place with no purpose whatsoever.
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Gore Gore Gore!
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The female cast is finally competent! Who could forget semen tranny?.
Others have tackled this already.
- Kubo wrapping up a lot of loose ends and lingering questions I had coming into this arc. We finally got to see the Zero Division, the Soul King and Yhwach's relationship to him, new Bankai's, Grimmjow's return, the secret of Szayelaporro's lab, Isshin and Masaki's (Ichigo's parents) past and how they lost their powers, Ryuuken's past, Ichigo's ties to Kaien and the Shiba clan, Unohana's past, origin of Yachiru's namesake, the secret behind Zaraki's seemingly limitless potential.
Hey, remember Ichigo's sister? Wonder what amazing things she's up to in Urahara Store!
Hey, who's this character by the way?
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[/hide]The plot actually feels like it's moving toward a conclusion and that's something I can appreciate even if it isn't masterfully executed.
Now since I took the time to answer your question, I'd really appreciate it if you made an effort to tell me why you believe it's such a horrible series. I'm genuinely interested in what you think and trying to understand why we're on such opposite ends of the spectrum, but I can't do that if all you have to say is "it sucks."
Okay, I'll touch on this arc alone. This arc is as always, poorly planned, not thought through, and has no sense of structure beyond moving from once fight to another. At least in SS and Hueco Mundo, it had the benefit of being a linear journey to a destination. As a story, there's no sense of momentum. In Marineford, a war like this, Luffy was rushing to save Ace, and that kept the plot moving. And this so called war has no real sense of scale or big picture. There should be multiple warriors on multiple side fighting at the same time. But of course, drawing 1v1s are much easier, and saves ink right?
And actually, this arc, even enjoying the fights for the fights sake by itself isn't even fun. Long gone are a straight up sword fights. The last actual sword to sword fight was Mayuri vs Zombiehitsu and that lasted 3 pages. At most we have harebrained strategies and white space explosions.
As for the series problem as a whole:
! As a comic book artist, Kubo is as lazy as hell. He only draws what he's comfortable with drawing and that encompasses very little. As such, the camera is zoomed in too much all the time (Scott Adams considers this an amateur mistake, if that counts for anything) and of all the things to zoom in, he zeroes in on feet, eyes and (God forbid) mouths. The feet things is to show movement without zooming out for a full body shot. And for all the closeups, there's no extra detail. (No shading)
! His backgrounds are either non-existent or a bunch of white blocks. Minimalist? Why? Often times, this shying away from location is detrimental to story teling because there are no establishing shots, and clarity is reduced. The world feels flat. Also in an unrelated nit pick, the explosions are not explosions, they're white puffs of smoke. Look at a gunpowder boom in One Piece. That looks like a real explosion. There's a different brush or something used.
! He comes up with a billion characters out of sheer impulse, but a lot of his designs are re-hashed and completely pointless. Compare the Dressrosa cast's full range of personalities, their quirks and designs. Compare them to Bleach's new cast. Off the top of my head, there's Shunsui's two Vice Captains. They are carbon copies of each other, and so one of them has no reason to exist. Is…Jeet similar to any other OP character in face or design? Kubo same face syndrome is pretty strong too.
! Going back to plot, Kubo clearly makes up what little Bleach has as he goes along. That much is very clear. Even from SS arc to Aizen, Bleach story is pretty bare bones. Girl kidnapped. Train, fight fight fight. Girl kidnapped again. Train, fight fight fight, then fight bigger baddie. Bleach really has nothing but a bunch of dudes fight another bunch of dudes with swords and Kamehamehas. It's very shallow, but Bleach pretends it knows better, it has poems in every volume, it has villains spouting philosophies about whatever, it feigns intelligence with it's one liners. Kubo has a fricking table with Bleach quotes in English for crying out loud.
! The fullbringer arc is something purely "plot-driven," with no fights to pad anything out and it's Kubo at his worst. Just seard "Applied Logic Bleach" for all the inconsistencies. It's a mess. Hey Ichigo want some ramen? Wait, why are u stalking me? I'm not stalking? Then y u have ramen? I like ramen. Then I have chocolate. U like chocolate bro? Hey shut up man.
! Dying also has no consequences in an afterlife center manga…...
! Just go read Yu Yu Hakusho instead.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
How is this a plot hole? Do you even know what a plot hole is?
Does imagination powers make any more sense? There are gaps in logic here. A power that strong could have literally annihilated anything and everything in an instant. It can make anything imaginable happen and he loses and is never out to use by Yhwach in anyway, nor does he have any plans or ideas to beat the Shinigami.
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Maybe because I enjoy a sense of danger and uncertainty in the battle manga that I read? I like not being able to predict what's going to happen. I mean, who foresaw Kira's death? I thought it was very abrupt, and because it was so abrupt I found it jarring.
There are better ways to raise the danger i n a battle manga than killings out of nowhere. Read Jojo for example.
I don't know what you're having difficulty understanding? The series is more graphic than it's ever been before and I'm a huge fan of blood and gore.
! [http://img.mangastream.to/manga/bleach/494/Bleach - 494 - The Closing Chapter Part One - 015.png](http://img.mangastream.to/manga/bleach/494/Bleach - 494 - The Closing Chapter Part One - 015.png)
! [http://img.mangastream.to/manga/bleach/504/Bleach - 504 - A Long Time Ago - 020.png](http://img.mangastream.to/manga/bleach/504/Bleach - 504 - A Long Time Ago - 020.png)
! http://img.mangastream.to/manga/bleach/488/bleach-3217251.jpg
Its not very different to previous arcs.
I'm praising Kubo for making his female characters competent, powerful and relevant in a manga aimed primarily at the male demographic. Often times in a lot shounen manga (I won't name them) females are delegated to support/healing/damsel roles and I appreciate Kubo making an effort to confront that stale, archaic trend.
Even so this attention is more towards new characters and not the ones who we grow and love.
_**@Louis-1988:
HOW is it "poorly done"? Show me you aren't a bandwagoner and try to deconstruct my argument with some actual counterpoints. "It's bad"; "it sucks"; "it's poorly done" are not compelling arguments.
What I wanted to say its that he could have done it in less chapters
Your reading comprehension is absolutely abysmal if that's all your garnered from my posts. You should feel embarrassed.
Well its likely 70% of your argument. Showing off a unch of OP villains. Anyway I see Ouroboros is making a better job than me so discuss this matter with him/her.**_
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Some of the stuff I can't get over in this arc:
-Characters continuosly explaining their abilities. Kid readers argument doesn't stick. There are plenty of authors who use subtelty to portray what's going on.
-Fights are boring turn-based battles most of the time.
-There's no continuity. Kubo skips from one event to another without following through. Hisagi trained to obtain Bankai? Offpanel. Where's Komamura? Yachiru? Hitsugaya? Matsumoto? Is it all going to be jumbled together at the end of the arc? Great writing.
-Detailed initial fights and offpaneling in the endgame.
-No sense of danger after the initial attack.
-Kira. Kira who?
-Abilities used to be more elaborate, now they are vaguely explained or underused because their users get killed off in the middle of the dialogue.
-Dialogue. Does every damn fight needs to be filled with pseudo-philosophical crap?
-New characters who serve no purpose, old characters who stopped serving purpose. Remember Tessai, the biggest authority on Kido in SS.
-Nobody uses Kido.
-There's barely any choreography.
-Sternritter fight amongst eachother.
-"I'm bored with them already, fuck resolution, Yhwach will do Auswahlen!"
I liked some parts. Initial attack was great because there was a feeling of real danger. Hoped there would be a real struggle and that Shinigami won't fuck around while fighting. Quillge was interesting, his Vollstandig was more elaborate than anyone elses. It remains to be seen whether it has significance or did Kubo just got tired of thinking new designs. Komamura vs Bambietta was great, because it was emotional. You could almost feel his determination and rage. And it was great because there was no clear winner in the end.
Mask bit was great, aside from Kensei goofing around and Rose being retarded. I even liked Kenpachi vs Gremmy, even though Gremmy heavily underused his ability. But that can just be explained by his imagination not being that great.Mayuri playing around with zombies was fun. But it came at a weird time and felt awkward. Also, way too long. Also, unresolved. It's like Kubo is skipping to another event when he loses ideas of what to do next.
It's like he's writing from chapter to chapter, without many details decided beforehand. And it's like he's not having fun any more. Just writing until it's finished. Does a guy who has fun working on his manga offpanel 4 of the most hyped characters he ever introduced without even hinting what their abilities are?
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Hey, who's this character by the way?
[hide]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-989YNioGlNE/U33q5GD374I/AAAAAAAACKg/n49hw4tnK4w/s1600/02.jpg[/hide]It's the new shinigami assigned to Karakura in the beginning of this arc, who was saved by Ichigo and his friends from hollow attack prior re-entering Hueco Mundo to save Nel's pet. I don't think he has any other relevance past that point.
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Others have tackled this already.
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Yes because One Piece doesn't jump all over the place, right? Dressrosa is paced so well.
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What's wrong with enjoying gore?
Hey, remember Ichigo's sister? Wonder what amazing things she's up to in Urahara Store!
Hey, who's this character by the way?karin might still have a role to play in the story, but even if she doesn't it isn't exactly plot breaking.
Okay, I'll touch on this arc alone. This arc is as always, poorly planned, not thought through, and has no sense of structure beyond moving from once fight to another. At least in SS and Hueco Mundo, it had the benefit of being a linear journey to a destination. As a story, there's no sense of momentum. In Marineford, a war like this, Luffy was rushing to save Ace, and that kept the plot moving. And this so called war has no real sense of scale or big picture. There should be multiple warriors on multiple side fighting at the same time. But of course, drawing 1v1s are much easier, and saves ink right?
That's because the structure here unlike Soul Society and Hueco Mundo is protect instead of rescue. Yhwach and his Quincy are the aggressors/invaders here, they are the ones driving the momentum and plot forward and it's our protagonists duty to respond accordingly to try and thwart while they attempt to figure out Yhwach's end game. It's fine if you dislike it, but it's dishonest to say there's no structure here.
I for one like that Kubo takes time to showcase 1v1 battles, otherwise you end up with the Marineford/4th Great Ninja War formula where there's a treasure trove of dream match-up potential and you end up seeing only snippets of or the outcome of the fight if you're lucky. I would have liked to see "Kakashi's Rampage" vs. the 7 Mist Swordsmen or Curiel vs. Moriah.
And actually, this arc, even enjoying the fights for the fights sake by itself isn't even fun. Long gone are a straight up sword fights. The last actual sword to sword fight was Mayuri vs Zombiehitsu and that lasted 3 pages. At most we have harebrained strategies and white space explosions.
Ever think that may be because… gee I don't know... the fact that Quincy aren't primarily swordsmen?
Does imagination powers make any more sense? There are gaps in logic here. A power that strong could have literally annihilated anything and everything in an instant. It can make anything imaginable happen and he loses and is never out to use by Yhwach in anyway, nor does he have any plans or ideas to beat the Shinigami.
No there aren't, Kubo made it clear that Gremmy's ability had limitations:
- It's harder for him utilize his imagination while being pressured.
- If he tries to imagine a power that he cannot fully comprehend it will backfire on him.
Gremmy is a perfect example of the no limits fallacy. http://www.stardestroyer.net/mrwong/wiki/index.php/No_limits_fallacy
The no limits fallacy is the illogical idea that a poorly understood phenomenon can be extrapolated to infinity or assumed to not have any maximum value or threshold. For a gross example, observing that a shield can easily withstand an attack from a particular weapon, one might illogically conclude that the shield could withstand fire from an unlimited number of those weapons at the same time, or that it could withstand fire from a similar weapon that was much more powerful.
Kubo leashed Gremmy with this fallacy in mind. There's no plot hole here.
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Louis will turn every argument for bleach being bad to a positive from his perspective no matter what we all say, so arguing is pointless at this point.
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Official chapter discussions now start Sundays at Noon, EST.
Please do not post threads when scan sites release their version.
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Louis will turn every argument for bleach being bad to a positive from his perspective no matter what we all say, so arguing is pointless at this point.
Yes, goodness forbid we encourage intelligent conversation in the Bleach section. Lets all just hop back up on the bandwagon and come up with some more snarky one-liners, that's much easier than actually using our brains to put into words what we specifically dislike about Bleach.
You haven't said anything constructive, the only people who've bothered to try and hold an actual discussion with me are Ouro and Ordinary, which I am thankful for and look forward to continuing should they reply.
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We have a new and interesting cast of villains with unique power schemes. Admittedly, I had grown bored with Aizen and his Arrancar by the time that conflict reached its resolution stages and the Fullbringer Arc didn't really do much for me, imo it was one of Bleaches lowest point.
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There's a sense of danger surrounding Yhwach and his Sternritter which is something Aizen and Arrancar sorely lacked. This arc has the highest good guy body count in the entire series; in fact, if memory serves, I don't think we had a major good guy death at all until this arc. Choujiro, Kira, Yamamoto, Unohana, Kensei, Rose, Matsumoto, Hitsugaya, possibly the Zero Division, and I'm sure Kubo isn't done spilling blood quite yet.
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Since the anime went on hiatus Kubo has really upped the gore content which I'm always a fan of.
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The female cast is finally competent! Rukia achieved Bankai and I remember when the Femritters showed up how everyone thought Kenpachi (and later Ichigo) was going to line them up and shoot them, lol.
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Kubo wrapping up a lot of loose ends and lingering questions I had coming into this arc. We finally got to see the Zero Division, the Soul King and Yhwach's relationship to him, new Bankai's, Grimmjow's return, the secret of Szayelaporro's lab, Isshin and Masaki's (Ichigo's parents) past and how they lost their powers, Ryuuken's past, Ichigo's ties to Kaien and the Shiba clan, Unohana's past, origin of Yachiru's namesake, the secret behind Zaraki's seemingly limitless potential.
The plot actually feels like it's moving toward a conclusion and that's something I can appreciate even if it isn't masterfully executed.
Now since I took the time to answer your question, I'd really appreciate it if you made an effort to tell me why you believe it's such a horrible series. I'm genuinely interested in what you think and trying to understand why we're on such opposite ends of the spectrum, but I can't do that if all you have to say is "it sucks."
Why are you here if you don't have anything constructive to say?
One dimensional recycled characters without much personality does not = interesting lol . And combine that with some of the most uncreative and boring fights ? What you get is a Bleach level garbage .
There is a sense of danger ? Haha i felt more tension from a kids movie then Bleach . Fuck build up or anything that actually takes skill to do when you can Kill off random characters that audience does not give two shits about to give audience cheap thrills . I swear the whole notion of character death = tension has become such a ridiculous trend .
Random filling up details does not = tieing up loose ends .
And let's not even go to the awful pacing of Kubo dragging out EACH battle for like 5 or so chapters in an otherwise painfully simple arc . This arc has been over 100 chapters and most of it was dragged out and uncreative battles simply because Kubo has no idea of what he is actually doing with it .
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