Chapter 767: Cora-san

Shadowgreed

Suleiman, Blue Gilly, Dagama and Boo were so important they got one-shotted.

If the aforementioned ones were so easily defeated, it doesn't make sense that the remaining ones will be more competent, because none of them is more important than the fallen ones. Why the hell should Ideo take down an officer if he's no more important than Blue Gilly, who got oneshotted?

Also, like I said before, Lao G, Dellinger and Machvise have yet to reveal their abilities, which means we'll need victims.

They served as a hyping tool and yes, Oda hasn't made a clear distinction between them besides their design which Ideo is clearly over the ones who got one-shoted, but I don't believe that Oda will make all those guys lose their battle and If it comes down to it, who do you think will take them on?

sabinis

@desa:

I would say shield so light it makes you float break my suspension of disbelief. And if it's the case why not crush people with the shield rather than himself?

Because if he is floating using it then when he turns light into heavy it happens instantly so he cant twist with something that makes him float and in same time turn himslef back to ground.

I imagine it would work like "turn on- turn off switch". Hard to tell as I just gotten very basic idea.

desa

@Shadowgreed:

They served as a hyping tool and yes, Oda hasn't made a clear distinction between them besides their design which Ideo is clearly over the ones who got one-shoted, but I don't believe that Oda will make all those guys lose their battle and If it comes down to it, who do you think will take them on?

I still believe Sai and Ideo have been prortrayed as being above the other mentionned.

King Cannon

@sabinis:

Why you add "small"?

If there would be ability that makes something lighter or heavier at will then it would have great effect to both sides - either possibly making something extremely light or heavy.

A hot-air balloon is able to carry people because they are several times bigger than people, and as such, can carry more helium (enough to lift the people up).

Machvise won't be floating with a shield that's smaller than him, weightless or not.

Shadowgreed

@desa:

I still believe Sai and Ideo have been prortrayed as being above the other mentionned.

And they were, but KC does not see that.

sabinis

@King:

I don't count Cavendish as he is not part of that group.

Also, the logic is not flawed. Taking down an officer is an important task left to important characters. I mean, you wouldn't expect Lulu or Tilestone to defeat one of the CP9, would you?

Because if you put an unimportant character to fight one of the antagonists, you don't have investment in the fight, as you won't care about the character. That's why they are developed beforehand.

Uh, not all abilities are DF, you know?

CoA is an ability. Fishman Karate is an ability.

CoA ? Do you need to see somebodys CoA ? Really?

Or Fishman Karate from somebody?

Tilestone argument I already seen some time ago somewhere on AP but that arc was like 300 chapters ago. Things can sometime bend or change a bit- look how this arc is paced for example.

You are pulling straw thin arguments here imo.

MJR.

Doffy is undoubtedly the best villian up until now in One Piece.

Yet he's still scared of Kaido. Makes me shudder to think that Luffy will reach such status some day.

sabinis

@King:

A hot-air balloon is able to carry people because they are several times bigger than people, and as such, can carry more helium (enough to lift the people up).

Machvise won't be floating with a shield that's smaller than him, weightless or not.

If he can make something weight according to his will then why what and how… Jeez. King Cannon.. you are stubborn like a donkey here - look - if Machvise would have this ability then you really think he could not make his shield "super floaty" or have enough "floating pull upwards thanks to its weight being so many times less than air"? Its One Piece and not rocket sience manga..

Size of shield would not matter with that ability, maybe you didnt understood how I seen it, my explanation..

King Cannon

@sabinis:

CoA ? Do you need to see somebodys CoA ? Really?

Or Fishman Karate from somebody?

Tilestone argument I already seen some time ago somewhere on AP but that arc was like 300 chapters ago. Things can sometime bend or change a bit- look how this arc is paced for example.

You are pulling straw thin arguments here imo.

Those aren't straw thin arguments. That's basic storytelling.

Rebecca, Cavendish, Bartolomeo and Chinjao are way more likely to take down an officer than Ideo, Sai, Blue Gilly, etc. exactly because they are developed and important, as Oda will be able to draw the fight with a character we have investment with.

sabinis

@Shadowgreed:

They served as a hyping tool and yes, Oda hasn't made a clear distinction between them besides their design which Ideo is clearly over the ones who got one-shoted, but I don't believe that Oda will make all those guys lose their battle and If it comes down to it, who do you think will take them on?

This page for me foreshadowed fall of some Doflamingo Pirates

!

So I share your pov on this one.

@King:

Those aren't straw thin arguments. That's basic storytelling.

Rebecca, Cavendish, Bartolomeo and Chinjao are way more likely to take down an officer than Ideo, Sai, Blue Gilly, etc. exactly because they are developed and important, as Oda will be able to draw the fight with a character we have investment with.

Super basic I would say.

Rebbecca wont have to fight ever again after Kyros will beat Diamante..
Bartolomeo might very likely get to win with Gladius and Chinjao might have a very tough fight with Lao G.
Also you write like arc already ended and you know precisely what will happen to each character.
Write down what you predict and after arc will conclude we will see how good your logic worked in the end.

@desa:

Why I think it doesn't work:
1- http://www.mangastream.to/one-piece-chapter-748-page-16.html Machvise seems to clearly be the heavy one.
2-He would take decent damage himself from his attacks.
3-the shield is just too little to convince me it can fly him

random stuff it doesn't explain: the tail.

1. Dellinger said he is fat- it would be even funnier if it was because M is actually purely fatass and not because of his ability.
2. Senor Pink had to shield M from Franky as M couldnt get back up after missing Franky and he also complained at his belly hurting after missed attacks. So he is taking damage.
3. Bla bla bla argument.

Tail- bla bla bla I also dont know its just theory, have fun disproving it without me

Its super late at my place and I wrote what I wanted. I will read replies tomorrow(if there will be any lol) but I dont want to make circles with subject as I already said all I had in mind.
Goodnight AP forums

King Cannon

@Shadowgreed:

And they were, but KC does not see that.

Portrayed so well they got literally swatted aside by Luffy and Chinjao.

Not what I expect from guys taking down officers.

desa

@sabinis:

Because if he is floating using it then when he turns light into heavy it happens instantly so he cant twist with something that makes him float and in same time turn himslef back to ground.

I imagine it would work like "turn on- turn off switch". Hard to tell as I just gotten very basic idea.

Why I think it doesn't work:
1- http://www.mangastream.to/one-piece-chapter-748-page-16.html Machvise seems to clearly be the heavy one.
2-He would take decent damage himself from his attacks.
3-the shield is just too little to convince me it can fly him

random stuff it doesn't explain: the tail.

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@MJR.:

Doffy is undoubtedly the best villian up until now in One Piece.

Yet he's still scared of Kaido. Makes me shudder to think that Luffy will reach such status some day.

That is a personal opinion that varies from people to people. I still believe Crocodile to be the best villain.

Shadowgreed

@King:

Portrayed so well they got literally swatted aside by Luffy and Chinjao.

But tell me who will take them down, who is important enough on this arc to handle the officers after they one-shot every 'non-important' character on this arc, who? I'm eager to know
–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@desa:

That is a personal opinion that varies from people to people. I still believe Crocodile to be the best villain.

There's no one like Crocoboy

desa

@sabinis:

CoA ? Do you need to see somebodys CoA ? Really?

Or Fishman Karate from somebody?

Tilestone argument I already seen some time ago somewhere on AP but that arc was like 300 chapters ago. Things can sometime bend or change a bit- look how this arc is paced for example.

You are pulling straw thin arguments here imo.

I think it means we should see their fighting style rather than simple cameo.

King Cannon

@Shadowgreed:

But tell me who will take them down, who is important enough on this arc to handle the officers after they one-shot every 'non-important' character on this arc, who?

Cavendish, Bartolomeo, Chinjao (he's clearly above the other gladiators).

Sabo and Koala are also there too. :ninja:

And it's unlikely Rebecca will stop fighting even with Kyros around.

Desperado

I do not like being a nagger, but am I the only thinking that this flashback wasn't very fruitful?

Most of the relevant info was known beforehand (Corazon being Doffys brother, Corazon being Laws mentor, Doffy killing him as well as his father, The fruit giving immortality, Corazon giving Law the fruit which was both logical and expected by many etc.)

The only new stuff was Corazon working with Sengoku (which is obsolete since Sengoku resigned) and maybe the Doffy-Tsuru relationship.

Much less compared to say Water 7 where the flashback was used to both introduce the overall conflict and the main villain of the arc.

King Cannon

@sabinis:

Also you write like arc already ended and you know precisely what will happen to each character.

No, but it's easy to predict certain things by paying attention to the storytelling devices Oda inserts in his work.

desa

@Shadowgreed:

But tell me who will take them down, who is important enough on this arc to handle the officers after they one-shot every 'non-important' character on this arc, who? I'm eager to know

Maybe the samurai and Hack will move their ass.

There's no one like Crocoboy

True that.

kevo_koma

@Snir:

law can't be heard just yet and then the sounds of cannons cancel out his scream

I know its waay too late to respond to this but yeah that bit was really neat and reinforces what Cora said about Law having angels gurading him. Because damn those are just too many coincidences and I'm thinking this will tie into the Will of D. Remember how weirdly lucky it was for Luffy to survive Loguetown. Yet we know of D's who weren't lucky.

The only downside to this is that it kind of diminishes all Law's and Luffy's accomplishments by giving them a cheat with infinite luck.

So is their a bigger deal to a D pointing Robin to another D. Because the more I'm knowing Law, the more I'm thinking he'd have done the same for her.

Damn we all knew that Doflamingo was a big character in One piece but damn the guy has served as One piece's major step in plot in a long time. Its been amazing.

desa

@kevo_koma:

I know its waay too late to respond to this but yeah that bit was really neat and reinforces what Cora said about Law having angels gurading him.

Naah. God simply love to kick him back down and can't let him die. If he was that lucky in the first place he wouldn't stumble on Vergo in the first place.

Shadowgreed

@King:

Cavendish, Bartolomeo, Chinjao (he's clearly above the other gladiators).

Sabo and Koala are also there too. :ninja:

You're clearly on denial here, don't you wanna throw in Sanji and the others as well….

desa

@sabinis:

This page for me foreshadowed fall of some Doflamingo Pirates

! http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/106/TBD-754.0/compressed/b009.jpg

The giant is certain to go down merely by being a giant. For the rest I have some hope.

Shadowgreed

@desa:

Maybe the samurai and Hack will move their ass..

May be, just may be but it doesn't make sense for Oda to introduce all those guys and use each one of them as a hyping tool and more so after Cavendish's speech, so no I don't see those guys getting one-shotted anymore.

desa

@kevo_koma:

So is their a bigger deal to a D pointing Robin to another D. Because the more I'm knowing Law, the more I'm thinking he'd have done the same for her.

That refers to what exactly?

kevo_koma

@Torao:

I just noticed the donquixote flag already has the crossed out smiley, so its not about corazon

I'm thinking its a rejection of his father's dying words to Doffy and the smile. That's why its crossed out and Law's is whole because of the last thing he saw of Corazon.

Its actually a very interesting parallel between the tow characters. You have Doffy who was more or less surrounded by love and good people reject that due to bad shit that happened to him causing him to want to destroy shit and hence the crossed out Smile and Law who wanted to destroy shit but got turned around when someone showed him love.

The more I think about it the more I'm feeling that Luffy doesn't have a place in this fight, this guys just have to much history and they're both children of destiny but then again Luffy represents that neutral chaos that doesn't really give a damn about destinies and histories and fates and I guess in a way that's really cool.

King Cannon

@Shadowgreed:

You're clearly on denial here, don't you wanna throw in Sanji and the others as well….

I would, but I don't have any basis for that.

But believe me when I say the Colosseum Gladiators won't be the ones taking down any officers (except for the major 3 ones). This argument is all based on Oda's storytelling patterns. Nothing against the gladiators themselves.

@Shadowgreed:

May be, just may be but it doesn't make sense for Oda to introduce all those guys and use each one of them end up as a hyping tool and more so after Cavendish's speech, so no I don't see those guys getting one-shotted anymore.

A major problem is that there's many of them, and it wouldn't be fair to portray some above the others if they don't have the development to back it up. It would be weird to have Ideo defeating an officer, while Elizabello II and Orlumbus don't fight any.

desa

@Shadowgreed:

May be, just may be but it doesn't make sense for Oda to introduce all those guys and use each one of them end up as a hyping tool and more so after Cavendish's speech, so no I don't see those guys getting one-shotted anymore.

We have: Weapon girl, weight man, old guy and horny youngster.
gladiators are: The don, his grandson, Ideo and Giant.

Once giant go down there's room for a new opponent.

kevo_koma

@desa:

That refers to what exactly?

When Saul told Robin to never give up on finding people who would one day care enough about her to even challenge the world. Kind of describes very D we've known so far right?

Then we have this whole deal with how super lucky Law is and so are the other D's we know and you can begin to see kind of shows that maybe this guy's are been led on destined paths.

Robin is one of the very few people who can read the Poneglyphs. Which contain information on the true history and super weapons that can destroy the world. D's are more less going to destory the world. From what little we've learned.

So maybe there is a connection to all that?

Shadowgreed

@King:

I would, but I don't have any basis for that.

But believe me when I say the Colosseum Gladiators won't be the ones taking down any officers (except for the major 3 ones). This argument is all based on Oda's storytelling patterns. Nothing against the gladiators themselves.

We'll just have to wait then.

King Cannon

@desa:

We have: Weapon girl, weight man, old guy and horny youngster.
gladiators are: The don, his grandson, Ideo and Giant.

Once giant go down there's room for a new opponent.

Why did you forget Orlumbus and Elizabello II?

Also, why Ideo is suddenly so important? He had less screentime than most of the gladiators in that group.

Shadowgreed

@desa:

We have: Weapon girl, weight man, old guy and horny youngster.
gladiators are: The don, his grandson, Ideo and Giant.

Once giant go down there's room for a new opponent.

I can see that one going down, but he might not go down so easily also he might be the one to give Ussop a map or something on how to reach Elbaf.

MadieV

@Tangaroa:

Killer's a guy with sharp things. They kinda drop straight to the bottom of my interest levels. He's polite, has a mask & sharp things. He may do something amazing in the future but for now he hasn't interested me.

More than polite, he seems like a reasonable kind of guy. One that thinks before he acts, contrary to his captain. Actually he seems to be Zoro's parallel.

Urogue was near the top of the SN for me because of his attitude and Skypeia connection. And I'm hoping his hulk-out number is some kind of insane monk martial art form (even Zoro has his hulk-arms and 'life-return' is more common) rather than a devil fruit. Whichever it was intrigued me.

His ability was the least interesting of the bunch TBH. He just seemed to grow stronger and nothing else.

Shadowgreed

[hide][/hide]
@kevo_koma:

When Saul told Robin to never give up on finding people who would one day care enough about her to even challenge the world. Kind of describes very D we've known so far right?

Then we have this whole deal with how super lucky Law is and so are the other D's we know and you can begin to see kind of shows that maybe this guy's are been led on destined paths.

Robin is one of the very few people who can read the Poneglyphs. Which contain information on the true history and super weapons that can destroy the world. D's are more less going to destory the world. From what little we've learned.

So maybe there is a connection to all that?

That cannot be coincidence, they might be connected the same way the Poneglyps are.

desa

@kevo_koma:

When Saul told Robin to never give up on finding people who would one day care enough about her to even challenge the world. Kind of describes very D we've known so far right?

The sentence was so vague I didn't catch that. I'm pretty sure Law wouldn't have take his enemy on his boat(say the guy who believed Monet would join Law) but yeah he probably wouldn't mind fighting the world for a crewmate. He has the power for it anyway.

Then we have this whole deal with how super lucky Law is and so are the other D's we know and you can begin to see kind of shows that maybe this guy's are been led on destined paths.

I'm surprise one can look at Law's life and say he was super lucky. Isn't the letter to Vergo enough to disprove that?

Robin is one of the very few people who can read the Poneglyphs. Which contain information on the true history and super weapons that can destroy the world. D's are more less going to destory the world. From what little we've learned.

So maybe there is a connection to all that?

Destiny talk? Sure why not. Fiction sure love destiny.

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@Shadowgreed:

I can see that one going down, but he might not go down so easily also he might be the one to give Ussop a map or something on how to reach Elbaf.

A giant not serving to a simple hype? I don't believe it. Him and Orlumbus are definetely next in the hyping fiesta. Not sure for one punch king. I could see him give good hit that will weaken an opponent before go down.

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@MadieV:

More than polite, he seems like a reasonable kind of guy. One that thinks before he acts, contrary to his captain. Actually he seems to be Zoro's parallel.

While he isn't stupid, Zoro don't think that often and isn't that reasonable.

His ability was the least interesting of the bunch TBH. He just seemed to grow stronger and nothing else.

I really am disappointed that the 9 captains of the new era are devil fruit users.

Doom

@Desperado:

I do not like being a nagger, but am I the only thinking that this flashback wasn't very fruitful?

Most of the relevant info was known beforehand (Corazon being Doffys brother, Corazon being Laws mentor, Doffy killing him as well as his father, The fruit giving immortality, Corazon giving Law the fruit which was both logical and expected by many etc.)

The only new stuff was Corazon working with Sengoku (which is obsolete since Sengoku resigned) and maybe the Doffy-Tsuru relationship.

Much less compared to say Water 7 where the flashback was used to both introduce the overall conflict and the main villain of the arc.

It put it all into context which is relevant and sort of the point of the flashbacks.

King Cannon

@desa:

I really am disappointed that the 9 captains of the new era are devil fruit users.

Shanks and Mihawk are the only current era top pirates with no DF (Rayleigh doesn't count as he is from an even older era), and that's only to make them more impressive.

MadieV

@desa:

While he isn't stupid, Zoro don't think that often and isn't that reasonable.

At least Zoro is reasonable when it matters. The rest of the time he acts like a stoic, bland fool who's always lost.

I really am disappointed that the 9 captains of the new era are devil fruit users.

Really? why?

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@King:

Shanks and Mihawk are the only current era top pirates with no DF (Rayleigh doesn't count as he is from an even older era), and that's only to make them more impressive.

We could include Jinbei as well

kevo_koma

@desa:

T

I'm surprise one can look at Law's life and say he was super lucky. Isn't the letter to Vergo enough to disprove that?

Well, first of all, he was lucky to be the only one to survive white city. Then he was lucky enough to get into the DD family. Lucky to convince Buffalo not to tell on him. Lucky to meet one of the only people in the world who knew about a way to cure him of his sickness. Then you have that whole Law and Dorry thing.

The more I think about it the more I think that the Luck is cursed. You get the Devil's luck in that, you'll survive shit but with broken bones and ripped flesh. The price is very heavy basically.

desa

@Desperado:

I do not like being a nagger, but am I the only thinking that this flashback wasn't very fruitful?

Most of the relevant info was known beforehand (Corazon being Doffys brother, Corazon being Laws mentor, Doffy killing him as well as his father, The fruit giving immortality, Corazon giving Law the fruit which was both logical and expected by many etc.)

The only new stuff was Corazon working with Sengoku (which is obsolete since Sengoku resigned) and maybe the Doffy-Tsuru relationship.

Much less compared to say Water 7 where the flashback was used to both introduce the overall conflict and the main villain of the arc.

That is how it usually goes. Makes you feel bad for the one having the flashback and make you want the villain to go down.

We also got CD identification chip, where Law medical knowledge comes, OP being able to cure any disease, price of the OP,Law being a D., conflict D vs CD, Doffly meeting Trebol and Vergo, Tusru being active 15 years ago.

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@MadieV:

At least Zoro is reasonable when it matters. The rest of the time he acts like a stoic, bland fool who's always lost.

He wanted to cut the CD that shot Hachi. That isn't reasonable considering what will happen.

Really? why?

I like variety. Like for example I hope at least one emperor doesn't have COC and that some supernova have it. And I always had problem with so many pirate captain having devil fruit( partly because they make you drown at sea).

Darth

@desa:

That is how it usually goes. Makes you feel bad for the one having the flashback and make you want the villain to go down.

… It does? Becuase I have to admit, complete indifference towards Doflamingo is one of the problems I have this arc.

MadieV

@Desperado:

I do not like being a nagger, but am I the only thinking that this flashback wasn't very fruitful?

Most of the relevant info was known beforehand (Corazon being Doffys brother, Corazon being Laws mentor, Doffy killing him as well as his father, The fruit giving immortality, Corazon giving Law the fruit which was both logical and expected by many etc.)

The only new stuff was Corazon working with Sengoku (which is obsolete since Sengoku resigned) and maybe the Doffy-Tsuru relationship.

Much less compared to say Water 7 where the flashback was used to both introduce the overall conflict and the main villain of the arc.

In order for us to understand how everything connected, how Law'a relationship with Cora-san started and how deep it went, we needed this flashback. The story doesn't have the same impact when you don't have the full view.

King Cannon

@Darth:

… It does? Becuase I have to admit, complete indifference towards Doflamingo is one of the problems I have this arc.

I dunno where that indifference comes from, considering that he has done more awful shit than pretty much any antagonist before.

He's also the only antagonist who has killed more than one named person.

Darth

@King:

I dunno where that indifference comes from, considering that he has done more awful shit than pretty much any antagonist before.

He's also the only antagonist who has killed more than one named person.

Indifference comes from how little I care about people he does awful shit to. The "Two chapters of backstory. FEEL BAD FOR THOSE PEOPLE!" pattern does not work for me, sorry to say.

desa

@kevo_koma:

Well, first of all, he was lucky to be the only one to survive white city. Then he was lucky enough to get into the DD family. Lucky to convince Buffalo not to tell on him. Lucky to meet one of the only people in the world who knew about a way to cure him of his sickness. Then you have that whole Law and Dorry thing.

He didn't survive White city by luck(which he was unlucky to be born in). He hide inside a bunch of bodies(of the people he was unlucky to lose).
The family accept any kids it's all about if you can survive the training and Cora(determination).
He didn't get lucky with Buffalo he bribed him.
He decided to go to Doffly because the guy fit his criteria for destroying the world. He chose Doffly he didn't find him by luck but the discovery of the OP fruit was luck.
The Law and Dorry thing only exist because he was unlucky enough to find the 1 marine he shouldn't.

The more I think about it the more I think that the Luck is cursed. You get the Devil's luck in that, you'll survive shit but with broken bones and ripped flesh. The price is very heavy basically.

The only real lucky thing was the discovery of the OP since he had a window of only 3 years. But when get sure super lucky once and super unlucky very other time I wouldn't call you a lucky person.

Shadowgreed

@King:

I dunno where that indifference comes from, considering that he has done more awful shit than pretty much any antagonist before.

He's also the only antagonist who has killed more than one named person.

And he uses a pistol to kill

desa

@Darth:

… It does? Becuase I have to admit, complete indifference towards Doflamingo is one of the problems I have this arc.

I don't care about Doffly and find his kiling of Roci pretty normal but it seems to have worked on most people. So much that a few wish Law would kick his ass(I do too but mostly because I think with Luffy it would lack real connection).

MadieV

@desa:

He wanted to cut the CD that shot Hachi. That isn't reasonable considering what will happen.

Well, the unreasonable one was Saint Charlos and not Zoro. But in his defense, he was acting on ignorance.

I like variety. Like for example I hope at least one emperor doesn't have COC and that some supernova have it. And I always had problem with so many pirate captain having devil fruit( partly because they make you drown at sea).

Jeje i see, but there's also variety within Devil Fruits.

desa

@Shadowgreed:

And he uses a pistol to kill

He sure looks good with it(At least in the flashback).

King Cannon

@Darth:

Indifference comes from how little I care about people he does awful shit to. The "Two chapters of backstory. FEEL BAD FOR THOSE PEOPLE!" pattern does not work for me, sorry to say.

I would think killing a perfectly fine and good-hearted Marine officer who also happens to be his brother would have at least elicited a response from you.

But yeah, I guess that's just your problem. It's only you and desa who seem to be feeling nothing.

desa

@MadieV:

Well, the unreasonable one was Saint Charlos and not Zoro. But in his defense, he was acting on ignorance.

Maybe but he didn't seem to get a change of heart when Luffy told him about the consequences. When you have as much power as a CD I doubt anything is unreasonable.

i see, but there's also variety within Devil Fruits.

Considering they are 9 crews I hoped for better.