People mixing up opinions with legit criticism of story elements again.
Now, whether you agree with the criticism is a different matter. That's how debates go. Then you bring up counter examples that bring light to your rationale.
You don't just go "Now that's like, your opinion, man"
Not trying to defend naruto but defining objectivity first:
ob·jec·tive
adj.
1. Of or having to do with a material object.
2. Having actual existence or reality.
3.
a. Uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices
b. Based on observable phenomena; presented factually: an objective appraisal.
Objectivity is a central philosophical concept, related to reality and truth, which has been variously defined by sources. Generally, objectivity means the state or quality of being true even outside of a subject's individual biases, interpretations, feelings, and imaginings. A proposition is generally considered objectively true (to have objective truth) when its truth conditions are met and are "mind-independent"—that is, existing freely or independently from a mind (from the thoughts, feelings, ideas, etc. of a sentient subject).
Good and bad are concepts from the mind therefore subjective.
@Purple:
People mixing up opinions with legit criticism of story elements again.
Now, whether you agree with the criticism is a different matter. That's how debates go. Then you bring up counter examples that bring light to your rationale.
You don't just go "Now that's like, your opinion, man"
I don't like this. Therefore your opinion on the matter is not "good". Your opinion is BAD!
BAD!
I mean like seriously, I don't claim to be objective about my disdain of Naruto. That's my opinion.
But on the other hand, neglecting that there are legit structures and elements to a story which give make or break it is incredibly ignorant.
Even more ignorant, the measurement of how "good" a story is based on fanbase and numbers.
Yeah it is a tad blunt but in the end, it's remarkably flawed thinking to consider that these elements make for a good story. No one will agree to that (or to word it better, no one SHOULD agree to that because some folks just don't know any better). There is a difference between something that you enjoy and something that is actually "good". An enjoyable story can be flawed, but a good story will try to minimize these flaws.
They can like it/love it. Sure whatever floats their boat, BUT going around and calling it a good story without legitimate reasons for why it's good and how it outweighs the bad is pretty much…a flawed approach to evaluating the story.
I like what you just said, I can't help, but agree with this. Concerning both Naruto and Bleach, at the beginning of the story, they had a very interesting/unique concept to them. However, as I read them, I could blatantly see mistakes made, which turned into huge unexplained plot holes. The art was somewhat shaky, but it wasn't bad. The character designs were okay, some got better with time, some stayed tacky. However, the reason why I like Naruto as an overall story was because I felt the representation of redemption can be achieved through understanding. I liked the fact that Kishi tried to write a story that revolves around redemption and hate. My only wish would be for Kishi to have kept a solid foundation and concept through out the series because the foundation became a tightrope, because he tried to do way too much. However, there were times, where I thought the dialogue, art, and transition were great. So, I like it, but I don't necessarily love it.
Here’s how Naruto should end: Last panel is Naruto standing proudly over Konohagakure. Slowly zoom out to reveal Luffy staring into a snowglobe with a miniature Konoha inside it. Usopp asks him what he’s doing. Luffy replies “Thinkin’ bout ninjas! Ninjas are cool!” and then chucks it off the ship
Let's forget the fact Naruto's war arc was shit for a moment, and think back to the start of this fight, and this fight only. How could Kishi have resolved this conflict differently, in a superior way? And yes, I have seen the "this sucks because the build-up sucks" argument several times already, but if we approach each chapter that way, then it's pretty damn pointless to discuss this manga at all.
Anyway: I'm sure there are things to improve here (personally I didn't that "chakra absorbtion" bit, for example). But those are minor bits. From the sounds of it, most people here would have only considered a drastically different ending "good". Personally I have a hard time thinking of something and liked the way Kishi approached this whole conflict for pretty much the first time ever, and enjoyed the resolution despite (or more like because) it was resolved by a long "talk no jutsu". Yes, I disliked the conflict as a whole as well and still do, but it was still resolved in a good way. That does not make the whole thing good out of the sudden (which seems to be the scare of some people here).
So, instead of the usual "Why don't they just fuck already LOL XD" shit we've seen during each Sasuke-Naruto conflict, what ending would you guys, who bash this resolution so heavily, considered a good one? If you don't think it should have been drastically different, what small bits do you dislike so much about this battle to engage in such a strong discussion about it?
Me saying the word "objective" was practically poking a sleeping lion and for that I can not apologize enough.
However this series has done a ton of shit in the 2nd part where it is borderline impossible to argue was actually good in the essence of actual good logical writing.
A great example of that bullshit would be the ending of the Sasuke vs. Deidara fight.
Most of us explore our own personal 'good' and 'bad' so that we know that we're wasting our time as effectively as possible.
I really did cherish my hatred of this series for a while, since its undeniably poor quality was the particular kind that was funny to laugh at. It was like watching a clown fall down and then fail to get up twenty times in a row in completely different ways. Misogyny? Check. Unreasonable lapses in judgment by experienced mercenaries? Check. Retcons that destroy fan favorite character development? Check. Armadillo shlong? Check. The list goes on. This series' fuckups have been a consistent source of and inspiration to amusing commentaries and antics in its fresh rottenness. The weekly Naruto read was filled with wonder as we watched Kishi crack through layer after layer of rock bottom.
The war arc, though, and this finale as a whole has just been stagnant, especially towards the end. Bland, directionless action over bland, directionless dialogue. Chapter after chapter. It wouldn't have been worth the read if we didn't have the promise of this bloated corpse finally bursting open from the pressure built up by its own noxious rot gas. That and the fact that reading a chapter required so little effort of thought that it couldn't qualify as a waste of time.
See, there I am parsing my like and dislike of this shitty series. It isn't just load of miracles and fairy dust. These are the machinations what lie beyond the goat that is my brain. I give similar scrutiny to the other bad shit I watch for laughs. It's the difference between watching The Room and an Adam Sandler movie.
What people like is up to them, and what we think of the quality of the work can be distorted by our own biases but there's only so much your personal likes can do to excuse the flaws of a work. Naruto is objectively bad, no matter if you thought that it was greatest manga ever to exist or not. There's just too much broken with the series, namely the Uchiha plot tumor, destruction of old messages, no world building, and a complete lack of side characters.
I like what you just said, I can't help, but agree with this. Concerning both Naruto and Bleach, at the beginning of the story, they had a very interesting/unique concept to them. However, as I read them, I could blatantly see mistakes made, which turned into huge unexplained plot holes. The art was somewhat shaky, but it wasn't bad. The character designs were okay, some got better with time, some stayed tacky. However, the reason why I like Naruto as an overall story was because I felt the representation of redemption can be achieved through understanding. I liked the fact that Kishi tried to write a story that revolves around redemption and hate. My only wish would be for Kishi to kept a solid foundation and concept through out the series because the foundation became a tightrope, because he tried to do way too much. However, there were times, where I thought the dialogue, art, and transition were great. So, I like it, but I don't necessarily love it.
Kishi did bring up good themes (redemption/hate being a decent one that can provide a fairly good story). However, the problem is that it isn't executed well at all. Nearly every theme he tries to execute is very very flawed. And since this is a "theme" heavy serie, it's a major problem when Kishi makes some really goofy plot/character decisions. The redemption/hate theme would work well IF Kishi did an effective job and giving us a reason to sympathize with the characters that deserve it. For example, if we actually saw Sasuke developing and moving towards being a person that deserves redemption, then this theme would have been executed well. However, it's not done well. It's…just not. He's been a dick for several hundred chapters and has gone beyond the point of caring about. The same goes for Obito and Madara who have very little reason to be "redeemed". They're only redeemable if we're given/shown a reason why we should accept that these people need to be redeemed. And Kishi DID try with Obito (and it came off...very corny), yeah he's a COOL guy, but he pretty much started all the shit that made a ton of people miserable. REDEMPTION DESERVED!
Oh and...Madara. Yeah, I have no idea why this guy needed to be redeemed whatsoever.
Essentially one of Kishi's major flaws is the fact that...he cannot fully execute a theme in a satisfying way. They are decent themes but most (if not all themes he presented) has been very poorly handled. And that's only ONE reason why the story is bad. There's plenty of others that make this story flawed.
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There's not enough love in this thread.
!
Change of topic: Had anyone seen one of thosafunny Naruto vs Sasuke fanComics? I mean, those weird drawn ones which are pretty hilarious. WOuld love to see the artist's take on that "blood mix" symbolism.^^
You mean shroomsday right? He's kinda fallen behind schedule, since the 697 parody hasn't been released yet.
Kishi did bring up good themes (redemption/hate being a decent one that can provide a fairly good story). However, the problem is that it isn't executed well at all. Nearly every theme he tries to execute is very very flawed. And since this is a "theme" heavy serie, it's a major problem when Kishi makes some really goofy plot/character decisions. The redemption/hate theme would work well IF Kishi did an effective job and giving us a reason to sympathize with the characters that deserve it. For example, if we actually saw Sasuke developing and moving towards being a person that deserves redemption, then this theme would have been executed well. However, it's not done well. It's…just not. He's been a dick for several hundred chapters and has gone beyond the point of caring about. The same goes for Obito and Madara who have very little reason to be "redeemed". They're only redeemable if we're given/shown a reason why we should accept that these people need to be redeemed. And Kishi DID try with Obito (and it came off...very corny), yeah he's a COOL guy, but he pretty much started all the shit that made a ton of people miserable. REDEMPTION DESERVED!
Oh and...Madara. Yeah, I have no idea why this guy needed to be redeemed whatsoever.
Essentially one of Kishi's major flaws is the fact that...he cannot fully execute a theme in a satisfying way. They are decent themes but most (if not all themes he presented) has been very poorly handled. And that's only ONE reason why the story is bad. There's plenty of others that make this story flawed.
I did say "I wish Kishi would've kept a solid foundation." Anyways, it's pointless to discuss it, lol. Though, I thank you for the wonderful discussion, ^.^
Kishi did bring up good themes (redemption/hate being a decent one that can provide a fairly good story). However, the problem is that it isn't executed well at all. Nearly every theme he tries to execute is very very flawed. And since this is a "theme" heavy serie, it's a major problem when Kishi makes some really goofy plot/character decisions. The redemption/hate theme would work well IF Kishi did an effective job and giving us a reason to sympathize with the characters that deserve it. For example, if we actually saw Sasuke developing and moving towards being a person that deserves redemption, then this theme would have been executed well. However, it's not done well. It's…just not. He's been a dick for several hundred chapters and has gone beyond the point of caring about. The same goes for Obito and Madara who have very little reason to be "redeemed". They're only redeemable if we're given/shown a reason why we should accept that these people need to be redeemed. And Kishi DID try with Obito (and it came off...very corny), yeah he's a COOL guy, but he pretty much started all the shit that made a ton of people miserable. REDEMPTION DESERVED!
Oh and...Madara. Yeah, I have no idea why this guy needed to be redeemed whatsoever.
Essentially one of Kishi's major flaws is the fact that...he cannot fully execute a theme in a satisfying way. They are decent themes but most (if not all themes he presented) has been very poorly handled. And that's only ONE reason why the story is bad. There's plenty of others that make this story flawed.
Whoa, when was Madara redeemed?
Everything's Eventual…
Whoa, when was Madara redeemed?
When he got a rather peaceful death, with Hashirama telling him they'll be best friends forever, no matter what. Quite the sendoff for someone who tried to put the world in the matrix.
Considering I had absolutely no expectations for this final fight after the trainwreck that was the battle against Kaguya, I'm actually fine with this ending. The loss of arms was unexpected, but given Naruto has the sage's chakra that can heal any wound, I doubt they will be limbless for long. Or maybe Sakura will finally be useful and Kishi will let her heal them.
A decent end to an asbolutely terrible series.
Quite the sendoff for someone who tried to put the world in the matrix.
And better yet, succeeded
When he got a rather peaceful death, with Hashirama telling him they'll be best friends forever, no matter what. Quite the sendoff for someone who tried to put the world in the matrix.
A peaceful death and an old rival saying goodbye doesn't = redemption. No one forgave him or excused him for what he did. Lol, nor was he called the coolest guy.
So in the next two chapters:
-They'll magically regrow their arms
-Sasuke will depart again
-Everyone who died will be magically revived
-Neji will probably get a word in
-TO SEE THE TRUE ENDING, GO WATCH THE LAST MOVIE!
I did say "I wish Kishi would've kept a solid foundation." Anyways, it's pointless to discuss it, lol. Though, I thank you for the wonderful discussion, ^.^
Just because he completed the theme in a full circle, doesn't mean that he did a good job either. That's like telling an athlete "Yeah! Great job, you ran a mile in 45 minutes!"
Whoa, when was Madara redeemed?
The moment him and his lover held hands. At least that's what I got out of the scene. He didn't get a "Madara was a cool guy" line but…yeah, I think Kishi pretty much communicated the idea fairly well. Romance. Isn't it lovely?
The sheer fact that Obito got redeemed, pretty much means that anyone could be redeemed in Naruto.
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Actually, I can sum up a majority of Kishi's short comings in one word: Kaguya.
She is pretty much a metaphor of why this series is legitimately bad.
This is basically 100% right. Not to mention her talking sleeve, a talking sleeve that just basically masterminded everything that went on in the Naruto Universe for the past. . .100 years?
The One Piece equivalent would be: The whole Gol D. Roger legend was fake all along, masterminded by Stronger, the last of a race of proud unicorns that were hunted down by humanity, who in turn brainwashed the entire Blackbeard crew to do his bidding in an attempt to collect all the Devil Fruits in the world and turn into Super Stronger, who just happens to be the son of the Moon Unicorn, the creator of the universe, and brother to Silver, Lone Ranger's horse, (whose human avatar is Silvers Rayleigh, of course), who in turn is trying to stop his evil brother's deeds by training the child of profecy, Luffy, who just so happens to be the reincarnation of the Moon Unicorn, and thus Silvers father. . .
. . .or something like that.
Not much difference from what Kishimoto did. It's objectively the worse thing in a manga seen during the past, what, 5 years? 10 years? I DARE you to find something as incredibly atrocious as the whole Kaguya affaire.
It's pretty clear that Madara's death was meant to be a moment saying that Madara was actually a good guy, albeit one that did things the wrong way when he could have just stayed with Hashirama. Instead of you know, being a genocidal douchebag like every other Uchiha is.
Not much difference from what Kishimoto did. It's objectively the worse thing in a manga seen during the past, what, 5 years? 10 years? I DARE you to find something as incredibly atrocious as the whole Kaguya affaire.
Like a lot of folks mentioned before, Shaman King. Naruto is fairly satisfactory in comparison to Shaman King. But that doesn't mean much.
This is basically 100% right. Not to mention her talking sleeve, a talking sleeve that just basically masterminded everything that went on in the Naruto Universe for the past. . .100 years?
The One Piece equivalent would be: The whole Gol D. Roger legend was fake all along, masterminded by Stronger, the last of a race of proud unicorns that were hunted down by humanity, who in turn brainwashed the entire Blackbeard crew to do his bidding in an attempt to collect all the Devil Fruits in the world and turn into Super Stronger, who just happens to be the son of the Moon Unicorn, the creator of the universe, and brother to Silver, Lone Ranger's horse, (whose human avatar is Silvers Rayleigh, of course), who in turn is trying to stop his evil brother's deeds by training the child of profecy, Luffy, who just so happens to be the reincarnation of the Moon Unicorn, and thus Silvers father. . .
. . .or something like that.
Not much difference from what Kishimoto did. It's objectively the worse thing in a manga seen during the past, what, 5 years? 10 years? I DARE you to find something as incredibly atrocious as the whole Kaguya affaire.
Oh… uh...
uhmm.... howabout the incredible power creep that happened during the war...?
Not much difference from what Kishimoto did. It's objectively the worse thing in a manga seen during the past, what, 5 years? 10 years? I DARE you to find something as incredibly atrocious as the whole Kaguya affaire.
The Uchiha clan. Every. Single. One.
The only good thing i can think of Kishimoto is that if his manga(s) were about 200 chapter long, he would be a superb mangaka. The initial concept, plot and characters of Naruto were pretty great. He had some great ideas at the beginning, which is obvious in the 1st part. The more he tried to develop and add things to his story and world the more he failed, eventually running out of ideas completely.
Of course there are examples of nice manga running for 700 chapters, but personally i find it just unnecessarily long.
@Purple:
So in the next two chapters:
-They'll magically regrow their arms
-Sasuke will depart again
-Everyone who died will be magically revived
-Neji will probably get a word in
-TO SEE THE TRUE ENDING, GO WATCH THE LAST MOVIE!
The movie won't be the true ending. Stated in the pages before. We will have a 2 chapters next week. 1 wil be shit and one who will cover the ending. The movie is stated to fill the blanket time between this.
BTW
The captions are mostly useless, just saying stuff like "What is the mysterious man's goal?" and "Naruto's team heads to enemy territory to retrieve Hanabi". The only thing of interest is the one next to Naruto which says "Multiple mysterious shinobi attack Konoha! Naruto fights back, but they don't seem to be normal shinobi…
Space ninjas incoming.
You would think a Naruto thread would be spent discussing the chapter. Instead, it's a bunch of Naruto haters coming weekly to bash the series.
I seriously have no idea why you guys continue to read it if it pains you so much.
You would think a Naruto thread would be spent discussing the chapter. Instead, it's a bunch of Naruto haters coming weekly to bash the series.
I seriously have no idea why you guys continue to read it if it pains you so much.
Nostalgic reasons. You have started and will read it till the end.
And for me personally it isn't hate but the dissapointment what happened to the manga in part 2
The movie won't be the true ending. Stated in the pages before. We will have a 2 chapters next week. 1 wil be shit and one who will cover the ending. The movie is stated to fill the blanket time between this.
I know, but to get the full understanding of what's going on you still need the perspective of the movie.
So basically "TO SEE THE FULL CONCLUSION, PLEASE SEE THE MOVIE AND PAY UP!"
Just because he completed the theme in a full circle, doesn't mean that he did a good job either. That's like telling an athlete "Yeah! Great job, you ran a mile in 45 minutes!"
The moment him and his lover held hands. At least that's what I got out of the scene. He didn't get a "Madara was a cool guy" line but…yeah, I think Kishi pretty much communicated the idea fairly well. Romance. Isn't it lovely?
The sheer fact that Obito got redeemed, pretty much means that anyone could be redeemed in Naruto.
At least he gets to complete it, unlike a lot of other series that are forced to close too early. Whether it makes it good or not, doesn't matter at this point. The only thing to apparently left to do is apparently complain about how bad the series is when everyone here is still reading it. They're either reading to finish it, to bash it, complain about it, or they actually liked it. Yet, the ones who hate it(because of different reasons) still read it. Why do they read it, if it was so bad since long ago?
Here’s how Naruto should end: Last panel is Naruto standing proudly over Konohagakure. Slowly zoom out to reveal Luffy staring into a snowglobe with a miniature Konoha inside it. Usopp asks him what he’s doing. Luffy replies “Thinkin’ bout ninjas! Ninjas are cool!” and then chucks it off the ship
At least he gets to complete it, unlike a lot of other series that are forced to close too early. Whether it makes it good or not, doesn't matter at this point. The only thing to apparently left to do is apparently complain about how bad the series is when everyone here is still reading it. They're either reading to finish it, to bash it, complain about it, or they actually liked it. Yet, the ones who hate it(because of different reasons) still read it. Why do they read it, if it was so bad since long ago?
Because of the expectation for ages that "we're at the final arc" which ended up becoming >25% of the story as well as the commitment after putting a good deal of chapters in after seeing if Kishimoto can keep to the commitments and promises he made early on in the story.
@Purple:
Because of the expectation for ages that "we're at the final arc" which ended up becoming >25% of the story as well as the commitment after putting a good deal of chapters in after seeing if Kishimoto can keep to the commitments and promises he made early on in the story.
It should've been obvious at some point way before the war, whether or not he was going to keep his word.
Here’s how Naruto should end: Last panel is Naruto standing proudly over Konohagakure. Slowly zoom out to reveal Luffy staring into a snowglobe with a miniature Konoha inside it. Usopp asks him what he’s doing. Luffy replies “Thinkin’ bout ninjas! Ninjas are cool!” and then chucks it off the ship
At least he gets to complete it, unlike a lot of other series that are forced to close too early. Whether it makes it good or not, doesn't matter at this point. The only thing to apparently left to do is apparently complain about how bad the series is when everyone here is still reading it. They're either reading to finish it, to bash it, complain about it, or they actually liked it. Yet, the ones who hate it(because of different reasons) still read it. Why do they read it, if it was so bad since long ago?
-Here's one theme that he will PROBABLY never be able to bring to a full circle: the underdog.
Yeaaah…that boat sailed a long time ago...and blew up in the middle of the ocean...and sank...and was eaten by a giant squid.
-A fair number folks still continue to read Naruto for nostalgia reasons regardless of whether it is good or bad (which it is clearly the latter). I also want to see how this damn thing ends (and counting how many plot holes and goofy oddities will manifest in result of the ending).
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There, that would have fixed the serie.
Welp Rock Lee's awesomeness was an essential part of the first few arcs. I can't remember though the last time he was relevant to the story.
-Here's one theme that he will PROBABLY never be able to bring to a full circle: the underdog.
Yeaaah…that boat sailed a long time ago...and blew up in the middle of the ocean...and sank...and was eaten by a giant squid.-A fair number folks still continue to read Naruto for nostalgia reasons regardless of whether it is good or bad (which it is clearly the latter). I also want to see how this damn thing ends (and counting how many plot holes and goofy oddities will manifest in result of the ending).
So it's curiosity? At least you're honest about it.
Here’s how Naruto should end: Last panel is Naruto standing proudly over Konohagakure. Slowly zoom out to reveal Luffy staring into a snowglobe with a miniature Konoha inside it. Usopp asks him what he’s doing. Luffy replies “Thinkin’ bout ninjas! Ninjas are cool!” and then chucks it off the ship
Madara didn't to be redeemed at all, because he was already pathetic. he was hyped as the villain yet he failed at doing everything he wanted:
Lead the uchiha and make them the strongest clan. FAIL.
Take care of his last brother. FAIL.
Defeat hashirima and avenge his brother. FAIL.
Repel against konha and destroy it. FAIL.
Have obito resurrect him with the rinngan. FAIL.
and just when we were about to see him succeed when he finaly had control of the ten tails all what we got was Kaguya. the biggest FAIL.
I already had sympathy for him when he was laying down silently Kishi, you didn't need to have him talk or do anything.
So it's curiosity? At least you're honest about it.
Also including the fact that I followed it since the beginning, found it to be legitimately GOOD, and then became depressed when it progressively turned bad, and now find it absolutely hilarious how such a promising serie turned into some sort of a self aware parody with a spin off that's more faithful to its essence than the original serie.
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Like a lot of folks mentioned before, Shaman King. Naruto is fairly satisfactory in comparison to Shaman King. But that doesn't mean much.
I've seen people talk about it, haven't "experienced" it myself. Yeah, it's a contender, but seriously, "Chakra Hungry Evil Moon Rabbit Lady That Appeared 10 Chapters Before the End of the Manga and her Talking Sleeve 
" is the (not really) final boss of a manga about ninjas.
Dead mom coming back from the grave to slap some sense into an evil overlord doesn't sound THAT worse than this, honestly. As bad, maybe.
@Purple:
Oh… uh...
uhmm.... howabout the incredible power creep that happened during the war...?
I. . .probably need some help here. I don't think I'm following what you're refering to? (Sorry. . .)
The Uchiha clan. Every. Single. One.
Every time Kishi tried to write something Uchiha related he failed big time (epitome of it being "love cancer"), but. . .I just can't stop stressing the astral idiocy of Kaguya. I could repeat it all day long. Seriously, think about it. At least the Uchiha are a ninja clan we knew about since chapter 4 or 5, and there's been some build-up to them, but. . .Kaguya. Just, Kaguya. Moon Rabbit. Wants to eat chakra. Final Boss. Really. Fuck all and any conflict in this manga, fuck any tension between countries, between ninja clans, between different ideologies, the need for War in a world compromised mostly of ninjas vs. trying to achieve absolute world peace. . .fuck all that, the final secret villain could only be an evil rabbit lady from the moon that wants to eat chakra.
You need to repeat that to yourself a couple of times every day just so you can admire the sheer absurdity of it all. It's baffling.
@superv:
Madara didn't to be redeemed at all, because he was already pathetic. he was hyped as the villain yet he failed at doing everything he wanted:
Lead the uchiha and make them the strongest clan. FAIL.
Take care of his last brother. FAIL.
Defeat hashirima and avenge his brother. FAIL.
Repel against konha and destroy it. FAIL.
Have obito resurrect him with the rinngan. FAIL.
and just when we were about to see him succeed when he finaly had control of the ten tails all what we got was Kaguya. the biggest FAIL.
I already had sympathy for him when he was laying down silently Kishi, you didn't need to have him talk or do anything.
You missed out on his greatest achievement: he managed to fart out a whimsical ninja genie.
It should've been obvious at some point way before the war, whether or not he was going to keep his word.
Again, time investment for something we already had expectations of and we do want to see the ending of. Yes, it was clear that he wasn't going to keep up what he promised us at the beginning, but the war was already looking like it should be the end of the series.
Which is true, but not in the way as was intended
not like Fairy Tail which has zero ending in sight and hasn't had that investment in
Just because he completed the theme in a full circle, doesn't mean that he did a good job either. That's like telling an athlete "Yeah! Great job, you ran a mile in 45 minutes!"
The moment him and his lover held hands. At least that's what I got out of the scene. He didn't get a "Madara was a cool guy" line but…yeah, I think Kishi pretty much communicated the idea fairly well. Romance. Isn't it lovely?
The sheer fact that Obito got redeemed, pretty much means that anyone could be redeemed in Naruto.
Besides the fact that they (Hashirama and Madara) never held hands, the reason why Obito was so horribly redeemed is because his younger self "resembled" Naruto in so many ways and Kishi wants us to continuously sympathize with Naruto and his determined innocence while showing us that sometimes people can lose their way but the ever unfailing Naruto can set them right again. If you can recall the exact same circumstances set up the same weak attempt of redemption for Nagato because he too was very much like Naruto in the past. Although Nagato was never forgiven Kishi did try to build up sympathy for his character by having him laughably revive everyone he just killed in the village because of a book title.
Obito (who was very much like Naruto) sacrificed his life to help Team 7 defeat Kaguya.
Nagato (who was very much like Naruto) revived everyone he killed with the exception of Jiraiya.
Itachi (who is now being shown compared to Naruto) supposedly prevented a war between the clans by massacring people.
Madara did nothing to be redeemed and that's why he and pre-timeskip Orochimaru are some of the more appreciated villains in the series because they're just…bad.
Everything's Eventual…
Also including the fact that I followed it since the beginning, found it to be legitimately GOOD, and then became depressed when it progressively turned bad, and now find it absolutely hilarious how such a promising serie turned into some sort of a self aware parody with a spin off that's more faithful to its essence than the original serie.
If I honestly had to pick, I'd say part 1 was great and consistent. Part 2 was good(except for Kaguya and the eye fetish), it could've been better if it had a balance between character managemant, plot consistency, and yeah, the essence part just hit me hard. It still had parts that were good, non the less, I guess I just can't say it's great, nor is it terrible. I suppose, I'm too soft and open minded on a lot of aspects.
@Purple:
I know, but to get the full understanding of what's going on you still need the perspective of the movie.
So basically "TO SEE THE FULL CONCLUSION, PLEASE SEE THE MOVIE AND PAY UP!"
True that… Awesome
You mean shroomsday right? He's kinda fallen behind schedule, since the 697 parody hasn't been released yet.
Thanks. Hope he can make some parodies of the recent chapters soon. They're pretty good.^^
I do too, you know. At least you're fair about it :P
