Wait, let's go a step back. I thought you confirmed that you can't be killed. What did I miss?
One Piece Mafia: Part III
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Wait, let's go a step back. I thought you confirmed that you can't be killed. What did I miss?
We're bulletproof. That doesn't mean there isn't someone out there that could potentially kill us. Another 3rd party for example. There's also no guarantee that something else weird isn't going on, because as everyone keeps pointing out, it seems too easy otherwise. Not to mention the number of wagons on Day 2 still makes me suspicious.
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Not sure I'd be too worried. You both made it through last night. Regardless, I agree on the other two points.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Ah, Kubihige left again. I was looking forward to getting one thing covered.
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If the town is allowed to be paranoid of me, I'm gonna be paranoid of the town too lol.
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lol, that cracked me up.
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@Outer- I would like you to keep this message in mind, but don´t ask me about it for now.
7 - 9 3 3 10 6 3 4.
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I understand your vote! Is there anything I can do to change your mind in any way? Let me ask you (and the rest of the town) some questions
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If we are "full of it" and lying, then what do you think we're hiding? Do you not think we are the ones creating these cyborgs?
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Do you think we have an ulterior win condition other than converting the whole town? Why would we be granting powers if we were against the town? I thought about this myself, and my only possible conclusion is some kind of theory that we have to convert people first, and then we can kill them. But that would be pretty weird! And plus, if this is the case, do you believe there really is no existence of mafia in the game? Having two townie-killing parties would suck.
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If you think we are killing the town somehow… why would we come forward and why would Nectar execute that strategy from Day 3? Do you not think we'd just keep trying to kill people we converted? It would not be worth the risk.
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Do you not at least want to try real scum hunting, if you do not trust us?
By the way, I didn't say this before, but there are sort of two routes we (the 3rd party) can take. We can try to get last night's people to claim and suss out more possible mafia, or we can try to keep the people who have abilities hidden and hope that they can fight the mafia (and maybe even clear us). I am guessing the first option is off the table if the town is still so suspicious of us. But yeah.
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How your win condition really works. Clearly, you are the ones making the cyborgs, but until yesterday, you didn't even know what you were really doing. Maybe you thought to come out to gain information about yourselves? You yourself only did so when Nectar was on the verge of being lynched, I'm sure that wasn't part of the plan.
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Maybe not an alternative, but at least one that can't co-exist with a town win. Maybe your granting of powers makes it harder for you to win. They could be used against you.
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The topic of you cyborgs is getting people talking. That's good for scum hunting. We can see who's being overly opportunistic and all that we normally do when scum hunting. I just see lynching one of you as a priority. Even if Nectar gets lynched and you are perpetually blocked, your third member will have more than enough time to finish converting.
The question of the Day. Who do we lynch? Foolio or Nectar?
I'll hop to Nectar.
Vote: Nectar
3 of the people converted are looking to lynch you. The only one that was close to your side is dead. Maybe we are playing into mafia's hands, but if a conversion isn't enough for even those that have been converted, how is it supposed to be enough for those of us not?
Vote Lynch: SpaceCowboy
I outted myself, gave you the chance to lynch a Mafioso, and threw myself on the mercy of the Town. All this and all I wanted was one thing. One small thing, answer my question. "Were your altered?" That was all I wanted from you. I TOLD you it was important and what happened: One of you lied and a Townie got lynched.
Am I backing out our deal from last Day? No. I gave you important information, told you what you had to do and you didn't do it. I used the information I was given to point out Ben and Iceburg. Don't lynch me because of your mistake.
Your distrust in the face of a group giving you everything they know is sad. Your distrust got a Townie killed and now it's the same thing again today.
And yet both of your robot buddies voted for Mrs. Iceburg. Are they just not as brilliant as you, Nectar? Ben admitted to lying, thus cleariing up the possibility of Iceberg's robot being blocked that night, and he was still lynched, thanks to not just town, but robot, and probably mafia too.
It's not cryptic. We have 5 clarifications about our ability in the PM
- The fact that multiple of us can target the same person during a night
- That the alignment of cyborgs remains the same
- That the alterations we make count as conversions and thus have lowest speed priority when abilities resolve. Meaning if we target someone and they die that same night, they do not count as converted.
- That we receive no reports about the outcome of our abilities
- That we can't roboticize mafia (this one is written in all caps even)
#5, is "roboticize" the exact wording? Not "alter" or something else?
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Scenario: "All threats eliminated" is the win condition for town, right? Robots can only not turn mafia into cyborgs. The wording heavily implies there is another threat out there, even if it isn't you, you can convert this other threat. So, mafia dead, town all converted, other threat CONVERTED AND NOT ELIMINATED. This is assuming that threat isn't you, of course.
My replies to the second half of the day will come soon. Nice to see I'm not being ignored conpletely~
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Sorry that it took me a while to post again. I was at a friend's barbecue yesterday, and haven't been getting a lot of sleep lately. Completely exhausted by the time I got home, I promptly passed out and didn't wake up until this morning.
I have a question for you though. I know you got your 'role text' and your 'alteration text' in one bulk Private Message when you joined the game in Shuhan's place. I know your alteration text was given to you along the lines of, 'Whoops almost forgot. You've been altered.' (according to your conversation with Trapped) but at the end of your alteration description there should have been one last notification and it's in parenthesis. It should be something about your power and it's a commonly shared trait among all us altered folks. Every altered Townie will have this text because it's extremely vital to their role. If you don't have an answer, frankly, we cannot trust you are in fact an altered Townie. Can you paraphrase what it says?
I'm a little confused by your question.
Here's what my alteration said (paraphrased):
_You had the most unusual experience… You can't remember any of it, but this morning you've risen from bed covered in some bizarre kind of shield. Perhaps it wasn't just your imagination?
You now have a Shield Generator. It will protect you from X kill attempts. It is used automatically and cannot be given away or traded._
Thing is, there's no final statement that matches your description.
This is really weird, and I don't know what it means, exactly. My role seems pretty clear to me, it's essentially unchanged except for my new ability. Could we be getting slightly different messages depending on the power that we get? I'm guessing that the powers really are completely random, and are different for everyone.
How can we be sure that the TP isn't distributing weapons to some of us? I got some NK protection, and I guess now that trapped really did become a doctor. But if they're handing out weapons as well, then they're basically making a bunch of us into vigilantes. Maybe tonight there will be a lot more dead people when all of the altered players start using their newly acquired powers. I hope that my shield will be enough to protect me, now. Perhaps after N4 we'll be able to tell how dangerous for the town this group actually is.
My gut tells me that they're up to no good.
I've made one really interesting point that I don't think either Nectar or Foolio has done a good job of responding to, yet. There's one thing that makes this TP and the mafia very similar. If the TP has to convert everyone in town into cyborgs, then they necessarily get closer to their win condition if we accidentally lynch an unaltered townie. This will reduce the number of unaltered players, bringing the TP closer to their goal. Just like for the mafia, it is entirely in this TP's benefit to get us all to perform a wrong lynch. It should be obvious why the TP is suggesting that we lynch unaltered players (and getting us to play along by saying that the unaltered people must be scum). The whole thing, it seems to me, has been a splendid diversion in order to get us to help them to win faster. I don't believe that they have any interest in finding the mafia, except by dumb luck. Eventually, one of the unaltered people that they've suggested for lynching WILL flip Mafia. And what then? Of course, they're going to say, "We TOLD you so!" But I don't think they really have a clue what they're actually doing, beyond doing their best to manipulate us all into helping them win faster.
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Alright, I'm for ending the day. Nothing much will be happening until we get rid of the "elephant in the room" as Gerri put it.
Vote Lynch: Nectar
That should be L-1. (I'd appreciate new mod posts with vote counts instead of editing old ones) -
_You had the most unusual experience… You can't remember any of it, but this morning you've risen from bed covered in some bizarre kind of shield. Perhaps it wasn't just your imagination?
You now have a Shield Generator. It will protect you from X kill attempts. It is used automatically and cannot be given away or traded._.
This is unfortunate because you could easily be inferring from Harvady's text from before…
@HarvadyAlumnus:
The PM had italicized flava-text that said that I had the 'strangest' night. I can't 'recall' any of it, _but that the 'truth' is, I've 'awoken' -_and now I have a power.
It then goes on to describe my power and its properties.
Unvote I would love to lynch Nectar and my I most definitely will by day's end if I get an answer that satisfies me, but I need Tyrano or (preferably and) Harvady to confirm something for me. Did you all get the text at the very end of your PM's that we all should share, or is it just me? You all haven't said anything on the matter because I asked no one to comment on the question but now I would like some reassurance.
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This is unfortunate because you could easily be inferring from Harvady's text from before…
I don't know how I was supposed to infer the "Perhaps it wasn't just your imagination?" sentence. I realized that my verification could seem inferred from Harvady's, which is why I included that part which he left out for some reason.
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I don't know how I was supposed to infer the "Perhaps it wasn't just your imagination?" sentence. I realized that my verification could seem inferred from Harvady's, which is why I included that part which he left out for some reason.
That's all fluff. Anyone could have added that or something similar along the lines of, "Maybe it wasn't a dream after all."
And I doubt everyone's PMs are exactly the same because mine sounds nothing like yours or Harvady's. That is, except for the last part which I'm trying to confirm.
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- How your win condition really works. Clearly, you are the ones making the cyborgs, but until yesterday, you didn't even know what you were really doing. Maybe you thought to come out to gain information about yourselves? You yourself only did so when Nectar was on the verge of being lynched, I'm sure that wasn't part of the plan.
Of course I would have preferred not to have revealed myself. But why would we think we have anything to learn about ourselves? Why would we have had reason to suspect that our role PM was an incomplete story? Doesn't make sense.
- Maybe not an alternative, but at least one that can't co-exist with a town win. Maybe your granting of powers makes it harder for you to win. They could be used against you.
You're not the first to say this, and my reply is: how? Unless we are giving townies a power to either destroy us or prevent conversion, it really doesn't affect us.
- The topic of you cyborgs is getting people talking. That's good for scum hunting. We can see who's being overly opportunistic and all that we normally do when scum hunting. I just see lynching one of you as a priority. Even if Nectar gets lynched and you are perpetually blocked, your third member will have more than enough time to finish converting.
It's bad for scum hunting. Nobody is talking about anything other than lynching Nectar. That's not scum hunting. It's exactly what the mafia would want. And, it's possible our 3rd member will still be able to carry out conversions, depending on how many hindrances we really have. Doesn't change the fact that the town is wasting time, wasting an opportunity for more cop-like clears, and wasting an opportunity for more abilities.
3 of the people converted are looking to lynch you. The only one that was close to your side is dead. Maybe we are playing into mafia's hands, but if a conversion isn't enough for even those that have been converted, how is it supposed to be enough for those of us not?
All of my friends are jumping off a cliff so I will too! I recognize that it might be a bad idea but my friends know more about cliffs than me so it must be okay!
#5, is "roboticize" the exact wording? Not "alter" or something else?
Why does this interest you?
Scenario: "All threats eliminated" is the win condition for town, right? Robots can only not turn mafia into cyborgs. The wording heavily implies there is another threat out there, even if it isn't you, you can convert this other threat. So, mafia dead, town all converted, other threat CONVERTED AND NOT ELIMINATED. This is assuming that threat isn't you, of course.
Congrats, you came up with a plausible scenario in which we can win without the town. The problem is that this scenario only helps our argument that you need to focus on players OTHER than my 3rd party. If we are not a threat but another 3rd party is, then you better get off your ass and scum hunt for mafia and this other threat before it's too late.
I've made one really interesting point that I don't think either Nectar or Foolio has done a good job of responding to, yet.
There's one thing that makes this TP and the mafia very similar. If the TP has to convert everyone in town into cyborgs, then they necessarily get closer to their win condition if we accidentally lynch an unaltered townie. This will reduce the number of unaltered players, bringing the TP closer to their goal. Just like for the mafia, it is entirely in this TP's benefit to get us all to perform a wrong lynch.
If you think I have any confidence in the town pulling off a win, let alone intentionally sabotaging them, then you have no idea what's up. Especially since if the 3 of us are alive, in the time it takes to lynch 3 or 4 mafiosos we would probably have no trouble targeting the entire town.
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If you think I have any confidence in the town pulling off a win, let alone intentionally sabotaging them, then you have no idea what's up. Especially since if the 3 of us are alive, in the time it takes to lynch 3 or 4 mafiosos we would probably have no trouble targeting the entire town.
That's a pretty big "if", Foolio. One of you is probably getting lynched today, and you have said yourself that you're going to be roleblocked indefinitely. If your third member doesn't get killed somehow, then you're probably only going to be able to do one conversion per night from here on out.
Town could easily lynch 3-4 mafia before you finish your conversions. And that's assuming that your third member's conversions work each night (how do you know that their target won't be protected, or that another role blocker might interfere)?
You three are obviously looking out only for yourselves. You don't care if we lynch mafia or if we accidentally lynch an towny, because it helps you either way. As long as we only lynch unaltered people, it's fine with you.
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It doesn't help us either way because the town has to win for us to win. Something I don't have confidence in. That was my point. We don't even have many mislynches left, and that's WITHOUT unexpected things happening or another 3rd party.
And you completely missed my point. None of us would have outed ourselves to begin with if all we wanted to do was convert the whole town. It's not like we needed to do any stalling after two consecutive no-lynches XD. We were trying to do the opposite and get something to actually happen.
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I don't know, Foolio. I can see an advantage for you all, even if you come out and admit that you're TP the way that you did.
Like you said, now that two of you have been identified, if the mafia only has one role blocker, then it's guaranteed that they'll target either you or Nectar. But only one of you will be blocked, so if you both target another player, you should be guaranteed at least one conversion. This is probably why Nectar was acting so suspicious at first (as you have already admitted, he was drawing role blocks), and ultimately outed himself.
You outed yourself to save his (her? sorry, I don't know what your gender is, Nectar) hide, so don't go saying "then why would two of us have ever outed ourselves?"
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If I got the tally right the votes should be…
Nectar [5] - Kubihige, HarvadyAlumnus, WoodenGiraffe BenjaminBrown, Huschel
SpaceCowboy [3] - Foolio, Nectar, TyranoNot Voting - Outerspec, HolyGamer, Gerri, SpaceCowboy
We should have until the 16th until day's end so I'll just wait for Tyrano and Harvady to get on here to help me figure this out as they are pretty much cleared.
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If I said Nectar was drawing roleblocks, I misspoke. Obviously we want our power to go through. Nectar was trying to draw the mafia's kill at night. Which looks like it probably succeeded due to the lack of a death. You're welcome. But no, I guess you're right, we actually WANT the mafia to kill townies and for the town to lynch itself.
And ugh would you please stop framing everything I say in the complete wrong context? I outed myself to save Nectar. But if Nectar never claimed, I would not have had to out myself. I'm saying NONE of us would have had any reason to come forward like that. It would have been the dumbest possible move for us when we could have laid low converting at least 2 people per night.
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We should have until the 16th until day's end so I'll just wait for Tyrano and Harvady to get on here to help me figure this out as they are pretty much cleared.
Yes, this seems valuable. Not to sound like a broken record but if there is another 3rd party out there that we're converting, they might get different messages too. I mean, I don't know what that sentence in parentheses is about but maybe it's plausible for it to be different based on alignment? If so, ben could be a 3rd party.
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If I said Nectar was drawing roleblocks, I misspoke. Obviously we want our power to go through. Nectar was trying to draw the mafia's kill at night. Which looks like it probably succeeded due to the lack of a death. You're welcome. But no, I guess you're right, we actually WANT the mafia to kill townies and for the town to lynch itself.
And ugh would you please stop framing everything I say in the complete wrong context? I outed myself to save Nectar. But if Nectar never claimed, I would not have had to out myself. I'm saying NONE of us would have had any reason to come forward like that. It would have been the dumbest possible move for us when we could have laid low converting at least 2 people per night.
Look, I think it's silly to assume that a Night Kill wasn't attempted on Nectar during Nights 1 and 2. He/she was obviously soft claiming and drawing attention, and I'm sure that the Mafia probably assumed the same thing I did when they saw that their kills weren't working.
The only reasons Nectar needed to come out like that on Day 3 were, as I see it, to (1) begin manipulating town to help you guys win, and (2) ensure that the mafia roleblocker(s) would target him/her for the rest of the game.
You all also wanted everyone who had been altered to reveal themselves so that you could verify how your power was working and how effective it was. You weren't sure of how many you were converting each night, and you needed some kind of confirmation.
These reasons alone are more than enough justification for Nectar to have acted that way.
Whatever. Obviously I'm barking up the wrong tree, here. Every time I say anything that might be anti-TP, Foolio comes back with a "don't you dare trust Ben, idiot town".
Tell me, why should we be trusting you? We need to flip one of you, if only to verify what you've said so far. If your flip verifies what you've been saying, then we can still cooperate to get a win together, Foolio. You'll still be able to do at least one conversion per night, probably, which isn't that much slower than what you've already been doing.
I still don't understand why you can't see this as some sort of reasonable compromise.
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Like you just obviously don't have a grasp on the flow of the game. I don't know if it's because you're new, but your theory simply makes no sense.
I said it before, I'll say it again, the flip likely won't say anything to change your mind. It's not a compromise if you go and lynch the rest of us, too.
I really hope someone hammers as soon as Harvady and Tyrano post.
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I think that I have a perfectly good grasp on what's going on here, and I'm tired of your condescending remarks.
In fact, I think that I've figured you all out a little too well, and that's why you keep saying that I shouldn't be trusted.
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Well maybe you'll take the time to consider how wrong you are once the game is over and you get to read our Quicktopic. I'm not trying to be condescending, it's more that I've literally given up on trying to explain game logic to you. Other players suspect and doubt us without having completely nonsensical theories. So my only conclusion is that you don't understand how the game works properly yet. I mean. Other than the alternative that you are an anti-town faction and are saying all this stuff on purpose. Either way I'm done trying to argue with you.
A question for Harvady when he sees this. You are probably going to get killed tonight by the mafia. Are you going to consider role claiming, along with any possible information you have based on it?
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Really, now you're just being rude. Plenty of other players have said that I have been making good points.
You and Nectar are the only ones saying that my questions and suspicions are ridiculous. The Lynch Votes as they stand speak for themselves, I think.
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Everyone else: if you could not lynch Nectar today, who would you lynch? Why? And I better not hear anyone say "Foolio." Including ben and SpaceCowboy we have 7 unconfirmed players. Probably more than half of them are scum. So come on now, who do you suspect? Ask them questions! Make them give their thoughts so they can be inspected upon flip!
Fooli-Damn. I want to go over Mrs. Iceburg's lynch.
LYNCH STATUS: With fifteen players, it takes eight votes to lynch.
Nectar [4]: benjamminbrown, Harvady Alumnus, Mrs. Iceburg, Kubihige
benjamminbrown [2]: Nectar, Tyrano
Mrs. Iceburg [[COLOR=#FF0000]8]: Gerri, trappedolphin, Foolio, SpaceCowboy, Wooden_Giraffe, Huschel, Holygamer999, Outerspec
Not Voting: xasjjx Mafia doesn't let powers determine their votes when it comes to lynching. They'll take any townie. Mrs. Iceburg was lynched (vanilla town). xasjjx is dead (vanilla town). trappedolphin is dead (cyborg doctor). Tyrano, Outerspec, benjamminbrown, and I have all claimed being altered. Foolio and Nectar are third party.[I've taken WAY too much time posting this, it goes up now. Analysis in a while.]
Do people think SpaceCowboy is town? Who believes ben? The opinion of altered players is especially valuable here.
And I am going to ask this directly now. How many mafia do you envision there are?
Finally, friendly reminder that people guaranteed to not be scum are NOT guaranteed to be town. They could be another 3rd party.That would be ridiculous. Having yet another third party throws everything out the window. I would imagine three mafia as a foil to you three. I wrote SpaceCowboy off as town when he and Mrs. Iceburg started to dissect your words on D2. It's not proof by any means, but he was all over the place on D1, and I was glad to find a reason not to focus on him. benjamminbrown's claim rings correct as far as it's similarity to mine.
A question for Harvady when he sees this. You are probably going to get killed tonight by the mafia. Are you going to consider role claiming, along with any possible information you have based on it?
I had already taken measures in that regard. Not terribly subtle measures, but I don't want to claim outright unless I think mafia missed it.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I need Tyrano or (preferably and) Harvady to confirm something for me. Did you all get the text at the very end of your PM's that we all should share, or is it just me? You all haven't said anything on the matter because I asked no one to comment on the question but now I would like some reassurance.
The text at the end of mine are comments specific to my ability. That may not even be relevant to what you're asking. I don't think I have what you need, Outerspec.
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Oh, right Harvady. I hadn't noticed. XD
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@Harvady:
I'll just wait for Tyrano's answer then but if it's not shared amongst all of us, can't really use it to definitively prove if Ben is Townie or not. Back to lynching Nectar then except I don't want to out him at L-1 just yet. I want to discuss a plan for tomorrow.
If/When Nectar is lynched and we read his death text. If it still leaves us guessing I would like to keep the 3rd Party in mind but I really want to lynch a Mafia member. Hell, I have since the beginning of the game. The 3rd Party just made things complicated and they've served more of a distraction than anything, so far, but that shouldn't stop us. We still have to keep looking for the threat. We know where 2 possible ones are but I would like to see a name in red at the end of a Day.
Kubihige, Wooden, and SpaceCowboy are my main 3 suspects. If we're going to lynch 1 tomorrow Kubihige is the safest bet to be a Mafia.
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To lay some more thoughts out there I have have entertained the thought of a Mafia-less game and the "Robots" (What we call the 3rd Party) being the only threat. Why would they come out though when they could've just altered us from the shadows? Well, besides the fact that they too thought there was Mafia that they needed to deal with, they also didn't want to be outed by a random lynch later on before gaining the Town's trust.
Maybe not all Townies can be altered which is another reason they would come out but this is very complicated.
I do think there's Mafia. I just needed to get that thought out. We still need to lynch Nectar. I lack as much faith in their promises and strategies as they do in ours, but at least I tried to help them.
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I like the way you think Outerspec. From the outset, I've been trying to get people to scumhunt and to come up with a plan that extends beyond "Scary robots must die!"
If you are going to entertain a no-mafia setup at this point, then without a second 3rd party to antagonize, it's hard to make sense of it. Reason being trapped was killed last night. It could be explained by a vigilante but that would be one hell of a stupid move from a townie vigilante. You'd go for someone claiming they WEREN'T altered.
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By the way, has anyone given thought to the name of this game, R.P. Island? I assume the R stands for "Robots." I wonder if the P doesn't stand for another group. If so, people from that group maybe have been able to deduce we were robots from the fact that cyborgs were running around, together with the fact that they were the P. Or it could be something like "Robot Paradise." I dunno.
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I thought with was just "Role Play" Island. Everyone has a role to play? But your idea sounds more legit.
I've also entertained the thought that you don't have a 3rd member but that would make Tyrano and I being altered on the same Night impossible if you or Nectar were blocked.
If you are forced to claim your 3rd Member because he's about to be lynched what do you think your odds are of winning with all 3 (or 2 tomorrow) members out in the open?
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I've also entertained the thought that you don't have a 3rd member but that would make Tyrano and I being altered on the same Night impossible if you or Nectar were blocked.
You guys second-guessing whether there is a 3rd one of us technically is good for us haha. Problem is, then you would have to conclude that we lied about trying to convert Icy-chan. Which isn't true. I told lies earlier in the game to protect my identity, but I have never once lied about my suspects or scum hunting.
If you really want to doubt yourself, wonder whether or not we already had our 3rd member claim alteration to avoid suspicion.
If you are forced to claim your 3rd Member because he's about to be lynched what do you think your odds are of winning with all 3 (or 2 tomorrow) members out in the open?
Depends. If we can lynch the roleblocker the chances increase significantly. If you guys lynch another one of us, they decrease significantly. At a rate of one potential conversion per night it's a toss-up.
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If you really want to doubt yourself, wonder whether or not we already had our 3rd member claim alteration to avoid suspicion.
Been there done that. Harvady.
Depends. If we can lynch the roleblocker the chances increase significantly. If you guys lynch another one of us, they decrease significantly. At a rate of one potential conversion per night it's a toss-up.
What if a Townie is the roleblocker? I hope you wouldn't want a lynch then.
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What if a Townie is the roleblocker? I hope you wouldn't want a lynch then.
That would mean we got blocked night 1 and would contradict my "all townies started vanilla theory." But I never said I wanted to find the roleblocker and lynch them. I want to lynch scum and hopefully get a roleblocker. I would never try to lynch someone I thought was town just because they are role blocking. But if a townie roleblocker is wasting their ability on us, they should strongly reconsider and try to block mafia.
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I would love to lynch Nectar and my I most definitely will by day's end if I get an answer that satisfies me, but I need Tyrano or (preferably and) Harvady to confirm something for me. Did you all get the text at the very end of your PM's that we all should share, or is it just me? You all haven't said anything on the matter because I asked no one to comment on the question but now I would like some reassurance.
You mean the line in the brackets?
I have one. -
The plot thickens? Is this something worth talking about?
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The plot thickens? Is this something worth talking about?
It might actually be something.
But I'm just answering Outer's question that he has tried to highlight in numerous posts. -
Of course. Obviously it hasn't worked in verifying the validity of Harvady and ben. So the question is, would it be worth talking about? I wonder what Outerspec thinks.
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LYNCH STATUS: With twelve players, it takes seven votes to lynch.
Nectar [5]: Kubihige, Harvady Alumnus, Wooden_Giraffe, benjamminbrown, Huschel
SpaceCowboy [3]: Nectar, Foolio, Tyrano
Not Voting [4]: Gerri, SpaceCowboy, Holygamer999, OuterspecYou have approximately 24 hours left to lynch.
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- How your win condition really works. Clearly, you are the ones making the cyborgs, but until yesterday, you didn't even know what you were really doing. Maybe you thought to come out to gain information about yourselves? You yourself only did so when Nectar was on the verge of being lynched, I'm sure that wasn't part of the plan.
We don't care about giving the Town powers. We care about altering them into cyborgs. That's one of our win conditions.
- Maybe not an alternative, but at least one that can't co-exist with a town win. Maybe your granting of powers makes it harder for you to win. They could be used against you.
Actually, we were scared the Town would have anti-Robot abilities, making a joint-win offer harder but that's not the case as far as I can tell.
- The topic of you cyborgs is getting people talking. That's good for scum hunting. We can see who's being overly opportunistic and all that we normally do when scum hunting. I just see lynching one of you as a priority. Even if Nectar gets lynched and you are perpetually blocked, your third member will have more than enough time to finish converting.
Not really. If the Mafia goes random role blocking every Night they could eventually find Mega Man. I'm scared for my Robot group. Scared the Town will double cross us in the end.
3 of the people converted are looking to lynch you. The only one that was close to your side is dead. Maybe we are playing into mafia's hands, but if a conversion isn't enough for even those that have been converted, how is it supposed to be enough for those of us not?
All I can tell you is we've been honest since we came out the maintenance closet. Every fear someone throws out is swatted by us with reason. Doing anything out of paranoia is a bad idea and the Town is seriously paranoid right now.
And yet both of your robot buddies voted for Mrs. Iceburg. Are they just not as brilliant as you, Nectar? Ben admitted to lying, thus cleariing up the possibility of Iceberg's robot being blocked that night, and he was still lynched, thanks to not just town, but robot, and probably mafia too.
I'm the latest model. Those two are the VHS to my Blu-ray.
Seriously, Ben's lie was exposed too late in the Day. It caused chaos and Mrs. Iceburg got lynched as a result. Man, I'm still annoyed that happened.
Scenario: "All threats eliminated" is the win condition for town, right? Robots can only not turn mafia into cyborgs. The wording heavily implies there is another threat out there, even if it isn't you, you can convert this other threat. So, mafia dead, town all converted, other threat CONVERTED AND NOT ELIMINATED. This is assuming that threat isn't you, of course.
My replies to the second half of the day will come soon. Nice to see I'm not being ignored conpletely~
I think there isn't another Third-party. Just Town, Mafia, and Robots.
I've made one really interesting point that I don't think either Nectar or Foolio has done a good job of responding to, yet.
There's one thing that makes this TP and the mafia very similar. If the TP has to convert everyone in town into cyborgs, then they necessarily get closer to their win condition if we accidentally lynch an unaltered townie. This will reduce the number of unaltered players, bringing the TP closer to their goal. Just like for the mafia, it is entirely in this TP's benefit to get us all to perform a wrong lynch.
It should be obvious why the TP is suggesting that we lynch unaltered players (and getting us to play along by saying that the unaltered people must be scum). The whole thing, it seems to me, has been a splendid diversion in order to get us to help them to win faster. I don't believe that they have any interest in finding the mafia, except by dumb luck.
Eventually, one of the unaltered people that they've suggested for lynching WILL flip Mafia. And what then? Of course, they're going to say, "We TOLD you so!"
But I don't think they really have a clue what they're actually doing, beyond doing their best to manipulate us all into helping them win faster.
Are you saying we thought the Town would be stupid enough to let us lynch several Townies without repercussion?
But, you're right. We could've tried letting the Town get lynched but…that would be stupid. Because the Mafia could win! Why risk the Mafia winning when we can simply team up with the Town? TWO win conditions: 1.) Convert all Townies into cyborgs. 2.)Kill the Mafia.
You are driving me nuts, Ben. You ruined my plan. You're getting me lynched. If you put HALF of that energy into finding the Mafia you'd be the new Trapped. At this point NOTHING in my death text will satisfy you. You're gonna call for Foolio's death next and convince the Town to betray us.
That's a pretty big "if", Foolio. One of you is probably getting lynched today, and you have said yourself that you're going to be roleblocked indefinitely. If your third member doesn't get killed somehow, then you're probably only going to be able to do one conversion per night from here on out.
Town could easily lynch 3-4 mafia before you finish your conversions. And that's assuming that your third member's conversions work each night (how do you know that their target won't be protected, or that another role blocker might interfere)?
You three are obviously looking out only for yourselves. You don't care if we lynch mafia or if we accidentally lynch an towny, because it helps you either way. As long as we only lynch unaltered people, it's fine with you.
Let me be clear:
If the Mafia is killed before we convert all the surviving Townies: Town wins,we lose.
If the Mafia is killed and all surviving Townies are cyborgs: Town wins, we win. <-This is what we want! And we get it by converting Townies. We need all the alterations we can get before the Mafia is killed or do you think the Town will stall for Day(s) for us to play catch up if the last Mafia is found? Keep in mind that every Night that Mafioso will be able to kill a Townie.We're out for a joint-win. YOU are the one trying to use us then throw us away.
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Are you seriously blaming your wagon on me, Nectar? Yeah, I'm suspicious of you, but I'm definitely not the only one. I'm not even the first to have voted for you today. I think there were, what? Three people who voted before me? That's not my fault. It's yours (and Foolio's) for playing your game so shadily. You made us lynch the wrong person yesterday, and that was even after we ended up following your scum detection scheme. Please accept responsibility for what you yourselves did wrong.
Sure, I messed with your plan a little, but you never should have assumed that everyone was going to reply to your request for claims truthfully, anyway. Which is what I said over and over again from the beginning. If you'd been more cooperative and had shared more of what you were trying to do, then we could have easily started sorting out the things that we are only just beginning to talk about today. Sure, it might have made it easier for scum to tell what was going on, and perhaps even fake a claim, but at least they'd be participating. The fakers would have gotten sniffed out eventually.
Also, what do you mean by saying that I'm using you and then throwing you away? I didn't asked to be made into a cyborg. YOU altered ME. But before we can tell whether or not you really are a threat to town, we need to see one of you flip. If you weren't prepared for this eventuality (like you said that you were yesterday… "LYNCH ME"), then that's not my fault.
All I want is verification of at least some of your claims. If you had actually followed your own advice on Day 3 and had changed your lynch vote from me, then maybe I'd be more forgiving of you and be gunning for Foolio, instead. I just don't like how you, in particular, are playing the game. Foolio even admits that the only reason he was lying yesterday was to cover his own ass when you decided to out yourself like that.
It's your weird outburst yesterday that threw the town into disarray, Nectar, not our response to it.
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Seriously, Ben's lie was exposed too late in the Day. It caused chaos and Mrs. Iceburg got lynched as a result. Man, I'm still annoyed that happened.
Nope. Both Mrs and Ben claimed they were not altered and thus they became your targets.
Ben changed his story mid way and Mrs. kept hers, because it was truth, she wasn´t altered.
Even if Ben had assume himself from the beggining, you would have gone for Mrs.You caused Mrs to be lynched.
If Ben had not revealed himself he would probably get lynched.You are driving me nuts, Ben. You ruined my plan. You're getting me lynched. If you put HALF of that energy into finding the Mafia you'd be the new Trapped. At this point NOTHING in my death text will satisfy you. You're gonna call for Foolio's death next and convince the Town to betray us.
I don´t think you understand.
In fact, i´m sure you don´t understand: You would get lynched this day the moment you made your revelation.
This is something you should know.Even if Ben would end up being Mafia, there was a high chance of you getting lynched on this same day, or maybe the next one max, but there was absolutely no way you would finish this game alive.
Also, if your death confirms we have nothing to fear from your group, i see no reason for us to go for Foolio and i will refuse to make any vote in that direction.
I bet Outer and Harv will too. -
I feel the same way, Space. I don't see any reason for getting Foolio lynched tomorrow, as long as whatever we learn from Nectar's flip doesn't contradict what they've been saying to us so far.
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Nope. Both Mrs and Ben claimed they were not altered and thus they became your targets.
Ben changed his story mid way and Mrs. kept hers, because it was truth, she wasn´t altered.
Even if Ben had assume himself from the beggining, you would have gone for Mrs.Actually we probably would have gone for you. Chances of Nectar being blocked? Not bad. Chances of us both being blocked? Much lower. That's why Nectar said one of the two was pretty much guaranteed scum. If the only person not to claim from our night 1 targets was Mrs. Iceburg, we probably would have advocated to lynch you, SpaceCowboy. Because the person who attempted to convert you would not have been blocked the first night and was not in the spotlight (and wasn't blocked last night either, I might add, making the odds of you being mafia a lot higher).
Also, if your death confirms we have nothing to fear from your group, i see no reason for us to go for Foolio and i will refuse to make any vote in that direction.
I bet Outer and Harv will too.It is virtually impossible for a flip to provide this assurance. You won't see any contradictions but it's not like it's going to say "and won in a joint victory with the town."
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Actually we probably would have gone for you. Chances of Nectar being blocked? Not bad. Chances of us both being blocked? Much lower. That's why Nectar said one of the two was pretty much guaranteed scum. If the only person not to claim from our night 1 targets was Mrs. Iceburg, we probably would have advocated to lynch you, SpaceCowboy. Because the person who attempted to convert you would not have been blocked the first night and was not in the spotlight (and wasn't blocked last night either, I might add, making the odds of you being mafia a lot higher).
The first point is fair, but what makes you so sure that that person was not blocked in N2? (When you say "Last night" I assume you mean N2, Nectar already said i was targeted in this phase. Remember we already had N3)
That´s the second time you call this like you are 100% sure of it.
If it´s just because "The person has not been in the spotlight", avoid using terms that make it sound like you are 100% sure please. Unless, of course, you really know the person was not blocked.Besides, i´ve already given you an hypotheses that might explain why i was not altered.
Instead of the mafia choosing that person to roleblock, they choose me to protect from any outside abilities, kind of like a Doctor, mafia version.
Of course this might make it depend on the info the mafia has about you from their texts (if they have), but considering i was quite active during the first two days, I would not be surprised if i got picked to avoid something weird to occur to me.Besides, i´m still not sure why, if i was the preferential target because of the chances that the person that converted me being blocked, didn´t you called me out then.
Was it because they were both targeted in the same Night?
It is virtually impossible for a flip to provide this assurance. You won't see any contradictions but it's not like it's going to say "and won in a joint victory with the town."
We are not looking for such a direct answer.
We want to see the text to check out if everything is according to what you say and analyze them to check if a joint victory is indeed possible. -
@Tyrano: That's very interesting. Why wouldn't Harvady or Ben have it? Bah, I can't afford to believe Harvady isn't altered. He was the very first to describe the alteration text and I don't see how he could fake it so well. Unless it's just experience.
Perhaps we can use what's in the brackets to test (or pretty much confirm) a future alterated player but for now I'm just going to drop that avenue.
@Nectar: I'm sorry but you do pretty much suck as 3rd Party, Nectar. If you didn't think someone would lie in a game of Mafia, Townie or not, and your entire plan hinged on 100% truthful responses from every single Town member. Then a lot of the fault was in your plan, not Town. I do blame Ben for lying but on top of that your plan was majorly flawed. I don't blame you for implementing it because it was the best you had but stop ducking the blame for Iceburg's lynch.
It was you who pointed out her and Ben, and Fooilo voted her off too. I'm trying to help your 3rd Party Nectar because at this point do you know what you sound like? You sound like you want the blame to fall on Town for every possible mislynch we may make from here on. I don't like that. Especially if it means the 3rd Party never faces any consequence because it's never their fault. If your Party wants to work with us then we're in every decision together. Good or bad.
The Town is useless and 3rd Party is helplessly inept despite the privileges they have.
Now that we got the petty mudslinging out of the way can we stop playing the 'Dodge and Blame' game and move on to playing Mafia? You're most likely going to be lynched Nectar and it's not even about your failed plan. It's about verification. Call us paranoid all you want but paranoia is all a part of the game. You should know that.
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Ok, i´m off for the rest of the day.
When i return home the Day will be already over.
So i will now cast the vote
VOTE LYNCH: Nectar
The reason is pretty much the same as everyone else.
Finding out about her text, the Iceburg Lynch and stuff that was already said over and over during this day.Attention: Nectar is now with 6 Votes, which means she is in a L-1 situation.
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Are you seriously blaming your wagon on me, Nectar? Yeah, I'm suspicious of you, but I'm definitely not the only one. I'm not even the first to have voted for you today. I think there were, what? Three people who voted before me? That's not my fault. It's yours (and Foolio's) for playing your game so shadily. You made us lynch the wrong person yesterday, and that was even after we ended up following your scum detection scheme. Please accept responsibility for what you yourselves did wrong.
Sure, I messed with your plan a little, but you never should have assumed that everyone was going to reply to your request for claims truthfully, anyway. Which is what I said over and over again from the beginning. If you'd been more cooperative and had shared more of what you were trying to do, then we could have easily started sorting out the things that we are only just beginning to talk about today. Sure, it might have made it easier for scum to tell what was going on, and perhaps even fake a claim, but at least they'd be participating. The fakers would have gotten sniffed out eventually.
Also, what do you mean by saying that I'm using you and then throwing you away? I didn't asked to be made into a cyborg. YOU altered ME. But before we can tell whether or not you really are a threat to town, we need to see one of you flip. If you weren't prepared for this eventuality (like you said that you were yesterday… "LYNCH ME"), then that's not my fault.
All I want is verification of at least some of your claims. If you had actually followed your own advice on Day 3 and had changed your lynch vote from me, then maybe I'd be more forgiving of you and be gunning for Foolio, instead. I just don't like how you, in particular, are playing the game. Foolio even admits that the only reason he was lying yesterday was to cover his own ass when you decided to out yourself like that.
It's your weird outburst yesterday that threw the town into disarray, Nectar, not our response to it.
…......
I'm not backing down from who was at fault but it's going nowhere.
And, for the record, I did know there was a chance it couldn't work. My problem is that I was screwed by the Town. Not the Mafia, not because I picked the wrong person with the correct info, it was the Town.We can argue about until the end but let's agree to disagree.
I don´t think you understand.
In fact, i´m sure you don´t understand: You would get lynched this day the moment you made your revelation.
This is something you should know.Even if Ben would end up being Mafia, there was a high chance of you getting lynched on this same day, or maybe the next one max, but there was absolutely no way you would finish this game alive.
Also, if your death confirms we have nothing to fear from your group, i see no reason for us to go for Foolio and i will refuse to make any vote in that direction.
I bet Outer and Harv will too.Maybe I would still be lynched but I would've proven the usefulness of us Robots, giving our groups a better relationship.
Was it because they were both targeted in the same Night?
Yes. It all came down to Iceburg, Trapped, and Ben. They were the answers we needed. That's the crazy part, if it was anyone but Ben that was targeted things would be different. The Mafia Game Gods were cruel that Day.
@Nectar: I'm sorry but you do pretty much suck as 3rd Party, Nectar. If you didn't think someone would lie in a game of Mafia, Townie or not, and your entire plan hinged on 100% truthful responses from every single Town member. Then a lot of the fault was in your plan, not Town. I do blame Ben for lying but on top of that your plan was majorly flawed. I don't blame you for implementing it because it was the best you had but stop ducking the blame for Iceburg's lynch.
It was you who pointed out her and Ben, and Fooilo voted her off too. I'm trying to help your 3rd Party Nectar because at this point do you know what you sound like? You sound like you want the blame to fall on Town for every possible mislynch we may make from here on. I don't like that. Especially if it means the 3rd Party never faces any consequence because it's never their fault. If your Party wants to work with us then we're in every decision together. Good or bad.
The Town is useless and 3rd Party is helplessly inept despite the privileges they have.
Now that we got the petty mudslinging out of the way can we stop playing the 'Dodge and Blame' game and move on to playing Mafia? You're most likely going to be lynched Nectar and it's not even about your failed plan. It's about verification. Call us paranoid all you want but paranoia is all a part of the game. You should know that.
Like I said, let's agree to disagree.
My only regret is Trapped and Iceburg dying. They were good this game, even though Iceburg wanted me dead. Do Robots go to heaven? Maybe I'll be reincarned into an Iphone 6…If I die, I want Mr. Roboto played at my funeral.
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Harvady, you said "analysis in a while". Do you have anything else to add before I end this Day?
I'll finish the lynch (if it's still at L-1) when I get off of work which is in 3 1/2 hours. Or I'll finish it if you respond earlier. Or someone else will finish it.
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@Harvady:
LYNCH STATUS: With fifteen players, it takes eight votes to lynch.
Nectar [4]: benjamminbrown, Harvady Alumnus, Mrs. Iceburg, Kubihige
benjamminbrown [2]: Nectar, Tyrano
Mrs. Iceburg [[COLOR=#FF0000]8]: Gerri, trappedolphin, Foolio, SpaceCowboy, Wooden_Giraffe, Huschel, Holygamer999, Outerspec
Not Voting: xasjjxSo as I mentioned previously, despite having two wagon reach near-lynch status, a third wagon forms and is completed.
I went over the votes, and there are a hell of a lot. The anomalies on this wagon are Gerri, Huschel, and Holygamer999. Not that SpaceCowboy, Wooden_Giraffe and Outerspec are shining paragons of truth and justice.
Gerri's vote at #1416 is a joke. Mrs. Iceburg had already made a show of targeting Nectar and Foolio. The fact that she voted him without the explanation in tow means nothing. Gerri takes it another step further by hypocritically not explaining his motivations or even that he thinks she's mafia. No case, just finger pointing. Despite her elaboration shortly after he votes her, he NEVER takes the vote off. Aside from having his blinders on in spades, this is suspicious because it's a complete turn around from day two. There wasn't any support for this lynch to justify his sitting on this vote on all day phase.
Holygamer999 is not around much. There isn't a lot to say. He votes when it's needed, but we've never gotten mafia. He is the lurker of my theoretical scum team. The only reason it's him and not Wooden_Giraffe is due to WG's aversion to the third party. It would be safer for scum to avoid direct confrontation.
Huschel: benjamminbrown was voted seven times. Nectar was voted eight times. Mrs. Iceburg was voted nine times. The only person to vote all three of these people was Huschel. On post #1444 he states his desire to 'go along with Nectar'. He voted Nectar earlier in the day as a pressure vote. At that point Nectar's wagon was three votes in. More pressure seemed unnecessary, but I suppose that can be debated. At #1537 he exasperatedly claims he's forced back onto Nectar. It's a sharp change. He's willing to put benjamminbrown at L-2 with no explanation, but NOW it's too sketchy to stick around.
Guess what? His return to Nectar's wagon makes it L-2! Not good enough? His final switch to Mrs. Iceburg? EEELLLL-TWOOOOOO-SOMEBODY STOP THIS MADMAN!
But I digress. Huschel's always aware of the count when he votes, he puts wagons where they can be completed without actually being invested in them.
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Tyrano, are you willing to die if it'd help the Mafia?
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I meant Town, my bad.