@Gerri:

what makes you so convinced of town capacity to kill who they intend to kill?

This isn't about being convinced. Town MUST lynch the robot TODAY to win. There is nothing to debate. This is not an opinion. It is the truth. Town has to lynch the robot, AND a mafia has to die or it's over.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Outerspec:

If we lynch the Mafia member and there's no joint-win then the Robots win. If we lynch the Robot then the remaining Mafia member will kill one of the remaining 2 Townies and Mafia wins. I'd rather risk the joint-win then let the Mafia take a win.

This is the most anti-town thing I've heard all game. You are throwing town's chances away by not lynching Wooden_Giraffe. You and Gerri are scum. You actually think that town can joint-win with a third party that converts people and wins when they get everyone. You are wrong.

@Wooden_Giraffe:

Oh hey, I'm still alive. Right now the only ones I'm pretty sure are town are Gerri and Outerspec. They claimed without lying or being asked directly. Leaves us with the two liars and Harvady.

Considering that Nectar's only reason for altering me was to get me killed somehow, I think you're just a little bit biased. You are justifying your reads on their claims, and nothing else. Outerspec's behavior yesterday was indicative of playing through to today, as if he knew that the game wouldn't end. Gerri was referring to himself as 'clear' since #1590. The fact that we have no one left who identifies as 'vanilla' means that being visited doesn't determine alignment. I am prepared to treat today under the assumption that everyone is back on the table as far as the 'robot-theory' goes. We have some time, however we must consider the possible outcomes of today's lynch.

=====================
Six alive. One Robot, (most likely) two mafia, means three townies. That's LYLO.

Truth of it is, we don't have anymore 'vanilla townies' (if I'm recalling our claims properly). That means that if we lynch mafia today and kill one in the night, there will be no mafia left, and no townies left unaltered. That means a Robot win.

If we lynch mafia and DON'T kill one in the night, then there will be four left. (2 town, 1 mafia, 1 robot) Wooden_Giraffe can't be lynched or else mafia will kill the last town needed to reach majority. If we lynch mafia, then we can't kill WG and the Robots win. A NL will also lead into this four-count.

If we lynch the last Robot today, that means that there will be five left. If we kill mafia in the night, they will kill one of us and we'll go into LYLO with one mafia and two town.

If we lynch the last Robot today, and we DON'T kill mafia in the night, they will kill one of us and we'll lose with a 2:2 ratio.

Town will LOSE unless we lynch a robot AND get a mafia killed.

@Outerspec:

Also, can you clarify what you mean by "follow the robot"?

'Follow the Robot' is a play on 'Follow the Cop'. It's a strategy used by town where they can use investigations-and only investigations-to find mafia. It happens when there's a cop who cannot be killed nor blocked.

@Gerri:

Space might have a different theory but I'll throw mine out. Does anybody think it is possible that not being able to alter Mafia only implied that Mafia would not be turned into a Cyborg yet still get the additional power. It doesn't really make sense from a cause-effect perspective but it's something to consider in light of some People not having the text in parenthesis.

This is part of why I asked "Are you convinced that people with powers are 'clear'?" Powers don't mean much in light of Kubihige's flip. It's easy enough to claim, and in certain cases, prove having a power. But that itself is not proof enough. People who were altered are likely to be town than as opposed to people who are only claiming to have a power.

I give benjamminbrown and SpaceCowboy the benefit of the doubt because on D3 I told people not to claim just to satisfy Nectar. I didn't say to lie and say no, but I said to protect themselves from NKs. They both lied about being altered and each one was put under pressure before claiming.

@Outerspec:

A lie is a lie. An omission is a half-truth. The difference is in the eye of the one who receives it. What are you looking for, Harvady? Do you have something to say?

People have made a lot of claims. There aren't a lot of ways to confirm them. I want to know if you are going to "follow the robot". You said: @Outerspec:

If a Mafia member somehow slipped through the cracks and is faking alteration we'll find him. We have powers we can use. Use them.

It is as if you are preparing for the last of the mafia NOT to be found among those without alteration, while simultaneously advocating the truth of the claims.

=======================

Okay, hang on. We (Gerri, Outerspec, and myself) are just posting over each other. I'm going to give it a wait before I respond to more.

@Outerspec:

@Harvady: I don't see why the Robots would lie about something like that. They were trying to use the system of 'Who's alterated and who's not alterated' to hunt down Mafia. They want them out of the way just as much as we do. If they could alter Mafia that whole system would never have worked.

So what about the second half of that question? Are you convinced that people with powers are 'clear'?

@Gerri:

Harvady: you sound determined. What do you think about Holy? Is he next on your list.

I originally had Holygamer999 as the lurker of my scumteam. A lot of things have changed. Kubihige fits nicely as the lurker of the scumteam, but that doesn't mean that there isn't another. It's entirely possible that Holy is in it with Kubi. I want to know what Holy thinks about suspects, because he hasn't been around. His initial post goes a way towards finding scum, we should see if there are any omissions in his report.

And if you ask question to everyone, how about answering the (same) question(s) to everyone, as well…

This is terrible logic. I am not going to answer my own question(s) before other people do. It defeats the very purpose of asking the question. It would make my question rhetorical, in which case I would have the answers and wouldn't need to ask for them.

@Gerri:

Why did you feel inclined to answer to Nectar's question to Tyrano that you love to post in your quicktopic during the day? Were you starting to feel too safe? Was it going to be your proud moment to go back to after the game?

Hey it's Nectar 2.0.

@Gerri:

Ah, Harvady is here. To answer your question. I had stated before changing my vote to Mrs.Iceburg that I would vote Ben or Iceburg, i.e. follow the third Party method. I initially voted Ben despite being more interested in Mrs. Iceburgs flip and already referencing the fact that Ben was very keen of bringing the Option of lies up repeatedly. Her vote on Nectar right after trapped pointed out that it doesn't really need more pressure votes and the way it seemed like she just jumped in made me change my vote. I saw no reason to change it even after she provided her reason and all the less with the later confirmation regarding Ben's lying.

She voted Nectar because she wanted him dead. People aren't forthcoming with their roles-and they shouldn't be. People who are trying to use the diction of moderator messages are scummy because they are trying to circumvent searching for evidence in order to get their lynches. It's no different than fake-claiming guilty reports. I said that your D3 voting was very different from your D2. Why were you so on board with Nectar's plan?

@Outerspec:

Listen up folks. Would it make sense that there are only 2 Mafia members? Holy and Huschel are Mafia members or it's one of them and someone else. If a Mafia member somehow slipped through the cracks and is faking alteration we'll find him. We have powers we can use. Use them.

We can lynch Huschel or Holy. Ben is still also up for grabs but I'm sticking with Huschel because I like the odds. Who's it going to be?

Who has said there are only two? Do YOU think that town thinks there are only two? I'm pretty sure all of town were all already on board for more than two.

Outerspec, is there a difference in lying as opposed to omission?

This is quite a development. Mafia's died and a bulletproof robot has died.

At this point I don't want anyone else talking about their power or speculating on each other's roles. This is grossly inappropriate fishing that is unnecessary with our now large advantage. I was seriously sweating yesterday. After doing a bit of math, I determined that town was guaranteed to lose this game if the third party was a threat in the same vein as the mafia. Thankfully there are mechanics in place to prevent our undoing. It's called 'all threats' for a reason.

Mafia wouldn't kill themselves. Third party can't kill. Town killed mafia through some power that must not be elaborated on. Robots wouldn't kill themselves. Mafia uses bullets. Town killed a robot through some power that must not be elaborated on.

If we assume three and three for anti-town groups, that makes nine alive with three threats left. If people want to 'follow the robot' then you need some damned consistency. More than one person lied about being converted. Everyone who claims after someone else can just use the claims of others. Town needs to come to a consensus.

Question to everyone: Do you believe what the Robots said about not being able to convert mafia? Are you convinced that people with powers are 'clear'?

Wooden_Giraffe has claimed being the last Robot. No one has counter-claimed him. It doesn't make for a good mafia move. The real robot would CC and we'd lynch them. It should be fine to believe his claim. Keep in mind, that robots are threats to town, we will have to lynch him eventually. (Unless we get another night like last night.)

We don't want a Robot today. We want another mafia. The best way to do this is to go over Kubihige's posts.

As I say that, I read Huschel's post and I have to say this: @Huschel:

In the end I voted for Mrs. Iceburg of course. Because Nectar was not going to happen and I had no reason to trust her either. I didn't think her flip would reveal a lot but she might just as well have been mafia. So I was okay with that train.

I like to make sure I don't accidentally lynch somebody. And while I'm at it I might as well tell people how many votes have been cast.

@Huschel:

Nectar [5]: benjamminbrown, Harvady, Mrs. Iceburg, Kubihige, Huschel
benjamminbrown [4]: Nectar, OuterSpec, Tyrano
Mrs. Iceburg [5]: Gerri, trappedolphin, Foolio, SpaceCowboy, Wooden_Giraffe So this is where we are then. Great. I'm not convinced either way and it's 5 vs. 5.I guess I'll make it 6-4.
Unvote. Vote Lynch: Mrs. Iceburg

Nectar was at six votes. Wooden_Giraffe jumped off Nectar as soon as he had the chance, because he was Nectar's partner. It was tied at five and YOU made Mrs. Iceburg's wagon six. We were set to vote a non-townie and you jumped. Nectar's lynch "was going to happen" and Mrs. Iceburg could have lived. But you decided to push a wagon that you say "wouldn't reveal a lot", when we all knew that Nectar's flip would.

Vote Lynch: Huschel

@Harvady:

LYNCH STATUS: With fifteen players, it takes eight votes to lynch.
Nectar [4]: benjamminbrown, Harvady Alumnus, Mrs. Iceburg, Kubihige
benjamminbrown [2]: Nectar, Tyrano
Mrs. Iceburg [[COLOR=#FF0000]8]: Gerri, trappedolphin, Foolio, SpaceCowboy, Wooden_Giraffe, Huschel, Holygamer999, Outerspec
Not Voting: xasjjx

So as I mentioned previously, despite having two wagon reach near-lynch status, a third wagon forms and is completed.

I went over the votes, and there are a hell of a lot. The anomalies on this wagon are Gerri, Huschel, and Holygamer999. Not that SpaceCowboy, Wooden_Giraffe and Outerspec are shining paragons of truth and justice.

Gerri's vote at #1416 is a joke. Mrs. Iceburg had already made a show of targeting Nectar and Foolio. The fact that she voted him without the explanation in tow means nothing. Gerri takes it another step further by hypocritically not explaining his motivations or even that he thinks she's mafia. No case, just finger pointing. Despite her elaboration shortly after he votes her, he NEVER takes the vote off. Aside from having his blinders on in spades, this is suspicious because it's a complete turn around from day two. There wasn't any support for this lynch to justify his sitting on this vote on all day phase.

Holygamer999 is not around much. There isn't a lot to say. He votes when it's needed, but we've never gotten mafia. He is the lurker of my theoretical scum team. The only reason it's him and not Wooden_Giraffe is due to WG's aversion to the third party. It would be safer for scum to avoid direct confrontation.

Huschel: benjamminbrown was voted seven times. Nectar was voted eight times. Mrs. Iceburg was voted nine times. The only person to vote all three of these people was Huschel. On post #1444 he states his desire to 'go along with Nectar'. He voted Nectar earlier in the day as a pressure vote. At that point Nectar's wagon was three votes in. More pressure seemed unnecessary, but I suppose that can be debated. At #1537 he exasperatedly claims he's forced back onto Nectar. It's a sharp change. He's willing to put benjamminbrown at L-2 with no explanation, but NOW it's too sketchy to stick around.

Guess what? His return to Nectar's wagon makes it L-2! Not good enough? His final switch to Mrs. Iceburg? EEELLLL-TWOOOOOO-SOMEBODY STOP THIS MADMAN!

But I digress. Huschel's always aware of the count when he votes, he puts wagons where they can be completed without actually being invested in them.

@Foolio:

Everyone else: if you could not lynch Nectar today, who would you lynch? Why? And I better not hear anyone say "Foolio." Including ben and SpaceCowboy we have 7 unconfirmed players. Probably more than half of them are scum. So come on now, who do you suspect? Ask them questions! Make them give their thoughts so they can be inspected upon flip!

Fooli-Damn. I want to go over Mrs. Iceburg's lynch.

LYNCH STATUS: With fifteen players, it takes eight votes to lynch.
Nectar [4]: benjamminbrown, Harvady Alumnus, Mrs. Iceburg, Kubihige
benjamminbrown [2]: Nectar, Tyrano
Mrs. Iceburg [[COLOR=#FF0000]8]: Gerri, trappedolphin, Foolio, SpaceCowboy, Wooden_Giraffe, Huschel, Holygamer999, Outerspec
Not Voting: xasjjx Mafia doesn't let powers determine their votes when it comes to lynching. They'll take any townie. Mrs. Iceburg was lynched (vanilla town). xasjjx is dead (vanilla town). trappedolphin is dead (cyborg doctor). Tyrano, Outerspec, benjamminbrown, and I have all claimed being altered. Foolio and Nectar are third party.

[I've taken WAY too much time posting this, it goes up now. Analysis in a while.]

@Foolio:

Do people think SpaceCowboy is town? Who believes ben? The opinion of altered players is especially valuable here.

And I am going to ask this directly now. How many mafia do you envision there are?
Finally, friendly reminder that people guaranteed to not be scum are NOT guaranteed to be town. They could be another 3rd party.

That would be ridiculous. Having yet another third party throws everything out the window. I would imagine three mafia as a foil to you three. I wrote SpaceCowboy off as town when he and Mrs. Iceburg started to dissect your words on D2. It's not proof by any means, but he was all over the place on D1, and I was glad to find a reason not to focus on him. benjamminbrown's claim rings correct as far as it's similarity to mine.

@Foolio:

A question for Harvady when he sees this. You are probably going to get killed tonight by the mafia. Are you going to consider role claiming, along with any possible information you have based on it?

I had already taken measures in that regard. Not terribly subtle measures, but I don't want to claim outright unless I think mafia missed it.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Outerspec:

I need Tyrano or (preferably and) Harvady to confirm something for me. Did you all get the text at the very end of your PM's that we all should share, or is it just me? You all haven't said anything on the matter because I asked no one to comment on the question but now I would like some reassurance.

The text at the end of mine are comments specific to my ability. That may not even be relevant to what you're asking. I don't think I have what you need, Outerspec.