Nectar [4]: benjamminbrown, Harvady, Mrs. Iceburg, Kubihige
benjamminbrown [4]: Nectar, OuterSpec, Tyrano
Mrs. Iceburg [6]: Gerri, trappedolphin, Foolio, SpaceCowboy, Wooden_Giraffe, Huschel
One Piece Mafia: Part III
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ben only has 3 votes according to the names in your list btw Huschel.
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Holy has been chilling for a while now.
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benjammin. Could you change your vote to Mrs. Iceburg so we can get a lynch? Fight another day.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
ben only has 3 votes according to the names in your list btw Huschel.
Ah yeah. Copy/pasting..
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Oh wait who needs sleep
Holygamer and ben, please. If you don't vote for Mrs. Iceburg you are choosing a no-lynch. If that is the case then fine, but know that that is the choice you're making.
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xas and Holy are only ones who haven't voted, correct?
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This feels like a Survivor spam challenge.
refreshes incessantly
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Dude. This was not a witch hunt against you. Or I would have claimed WITHOUT switching my vote off you. Please stop feeling so damn paranoid. Nectar wanted everyone to claim so that we could compare who said yes to who we targeted. It's as simple as that. You happen to be one of those people. Well, Shuhan was the one targeted, but it ended up being you. So unless you have a very interesting definition of "orchestrated," this was nothing more than a plan to lay some suspects on the table. If you had claimed you were altered to begin with, there wouldn't have been a problem with you. THAT SAID. I was 100% genuine in all my accusations of you seeming nervous and panicky.
And I'm 100% genuine in my accusation that you guys are specifically going after people that can prevent you from achieving your win condition, whether they are Mafia or not. Town has no reason to trust you all, I have no reason to believe any of the information that you've provided in your revealing post. Nectar has shown that he is more than willing to withhold information to the point of completely misconstruing what he was trying to do. He can't even make right by switching his vote from me, and that alone is condemning enough for me to think you all are a bunch of dirty rotten liars and half truth tellers.
Yeah, maybe "orchestrated" was the wrong word. You all should have really thought this out a lot more before you pulled a stunt like this.
We've essentially wasted an entire day because of you loons, I'll be surprised if anyone gets lynched at all. Funny that you think you can blame this mess on the "awful Town", when it's really all of your own fault.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
No, I will not change my vote. I want rid of this group. They cannot be trusted. I don't care if this makes me look like scum.
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Vote Lynch: Mrs. Iceburg
Also, my phone always has this page open. I just saw this clusterf*** between classes
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benjammin, look at the movement of votes. Nectar isn't going to be lynched today even if you keep your vote where it is! We only have a few minutes left. It's either a no lynch or an Iceburg lynch.
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What's so hard to understand.
They alter people.
They can't alter mafia.
They were not able to alter Iceburg and space.
Without roleblockers or other interventive methods, it would be clear that they are scum but unfortunately such methods could/seem to exist in this game.
They went after you because you thought it is a good idea to lie and said you weren't altered.
We still need certainty regarding win-condition but you are not going to get it today.
Change your vote or waste the day. It's still in your Hand. -
And I'm 100% genuine in my accusation that you guys are specifically going after people that can prevent you from achieving your win condition, whether they are Mafia or not. Town has no reason to trust you all, I have no reason to believe any of the information that you've provided in your revealing post. Nectar has shown that he is more than willing to withhold information to the point of completely misconstruing what he was trying to do. He can't even make right by switching his vote from me, and that alone is condemning enough for me to think you all are a bunch of dirty rotten liars and half truth tellers.
Yeah, maybe "orchestrated" was the wrong word. You all should have really thought this out a lot more before you pulled a stunt like this.
We've essentially wasted an entire day because of you loons, I'll be surprised if anyone gets lynched at all. Funny that you think you can blame this mess on the "awful Town", when it's really all of your own fault.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
No, I will not change my vote. I want rid of this group. They cannot be trusted. I don't care if this makes me look like scum.
XD man you have much to learn about the game of Mafia. That or you actually are a very intuitive scum player. Of COURSE we are 100% going for people who obstruct our win condition. Do you know who those people are? The mafia :) everything else is about converting the entire town BEFORE the mafia is all dead. But I'll be damned if you're accusing me of intentionally stalling the town. I've been pushing for lynches hard. So much so that I get criticized for it. And if all we wanted was to confuse the town and cause no-lynches, there would be far, far better ways than what Nectar did. Like I said. Calm down.
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But I have no reason to trust
yourthe 3rd Party's accusation. I don't trust a single thing they've said. I will not change my vote. -
I don't really know what's going on and I'm too far behind to catch up, but I do know its been confirmed Foolio is 3rd Party.
No, I still do not fully trust the 3rd Party until one of them is lynched and we can judge for ourselves. I don't really care that they're ballsy. I want to read the win condition for myself. "All threats" sounds a lot more than just Mafia. For now…umm...no really, I don't know what else is going on, but I'll trust the rest of Town and I don't want another no lynch.
**unvote
vote: Mrs. Iceburg**
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Maybe if Nectar can switch his vote, maybe then.
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I don't really know what's going on and I'm too far behind to catch up, but I do know its been confirmed Foolio is 3rd Party.
No, I still do not fully trust the 3rd Party until one of them is lynched and we can judge for ourselves. I don't really care that they're ballsy. I want to read the win condition for myself. "All threats" sounds a lot more than just Mafia. For now…umm...no really, I don't know what else is going on, but I'll trust the rest of Town and I don't want another no lynch.
**unvote
vote: Mrs. Iceburg**
It does sound that way but I'm hoping against hopes that it doesn't have to be that way. If it is, we'll deal with it.
Thank you and Holy for the votes. That should be it. Would someone be able to doublecheck? Searching by members' posts should do it. Sorry I can't do it on my phone :( I know it's tedious.
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Well I think that was the hammer. So I will be courteous to the rules and refrain from further posting.
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I would at least consider unvoting.
I still have no reason to suspect Mrs. Iceburg for anything, other than these 3rd party claims which I don't believe in the slightest.
Also, I like the way she thinks, and she definitely seems town to me so far. I will certainly start to scrutinize her more, probably read all of her previous posts so I can see them in this new light, but I doubt that my opinion will change, honestly.
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Guys. Guys. The day has ended. You should all stop talking. :I
[small]Unless we miscounted.[/small]
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Hunt down everyone who voted for me.
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LYNCH STATUS: With fifteen players, it takes eight votes to lynch.
Nectar [4]: benjamminbrown, Harvady Alumnus, Mrs. Iceburg, Kubihige
benjamminbrown [2]: Nectar, Tyrano
Mrs. Iceburg [[COLOR=#FF0000]8]: Gerri, trappedolphin, Foolio, SpaceCowboy, Wooden_Giraffe, Huschel, Holygamer999, Outerspec
Not Voting: xasjjxMrs. Iceburg has been lynched. She was a Vanilla Townie. She had no special abilities. She won when all threats to Town were eliminated -and- at least one Townie remained alive.
Day Three has ended. Night Three has begun. You have 48 hours. **(Day Three may begin earlier if all Night Actions are resolved)**
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Night Three has Ended.
Players Still Alive
1. Foolio
2. Holygamer999
3. Tyrano
4. Outerspec
5. Gerri
6. Wooden_Giraffe
7. Kubihige
8. benjamminbrown
9. Huschel
10 SpaceCowboy
11. Nectar
12. Harvady Alumnustrappedolphin has been killed. She was a Cyborg Doctor. Once per night she could select a target- that target would be protected from being night-killed.__xasjjx has been mod-killed. He was a Vanilla Townie. He had no special abilities. They won when all threats to Town were eliminated -and- at least one Townie remained alive.
LYNCH STATUS: With twelve players, it takes seven votes to lynch.
Not Voting [12]: Foolio, Holygamer999, Tyrano, Outerspec, Gerri, Wooden_Giraffe, Kubihige, benjamminbrown, Huschel, SpaceCowboy, Nectar, Harvady AlumnusIt is now Day Four. You have 72 hours to lynch.
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Vote: Nectar
Wasn't buying your nonsense yesterday, not buying it today, especially after Iceberg's flip.
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Alright, I can't blame the town for wanting blood from my 3rd party given last night. But here is my current theory.
All townies are vanilla until we turn them into cyborgs. We grant the town powers at night, which can be used to fight the mafia. What we did not know is that we actually granted abilites. All we knew is that we were creating cyborgs, and that the mafia could not be converted. The fact that we are churning out doctors, among whatever else, seems to mean we are doing pretty powerful stuff. To counter this, it's possible that ALL mafia are roleblockers.
Now. The fact that neither Nectar or I died means to me that there might not be anyone out there with an ability to destroy my 3rd party. Unless trapped doctored me or Nectar, who were the kill targets. It does worry me how this seems overpowered. 3 townies that cannot be killed by the mafia, and who go around handing out powers. This would mean their main goal is to take us out at this point. Keep that in mind. But maybe there is still something harmful to us out there that hasn't occurred yet, so I'm not sure.
Either way I can understand wanting to see one of us flip, but it would be a huge blow to the town.
As for today. Let me say this. The same person who targeted benjammin also targeted SpaceCowboy, and it was NOT Nectar or me. Chances of roleblock are low. The real reason we suggested benjammin as low-risk yesterday was that we believed the 3rd member of our party would have the lowest chance of being blocked. Which was true, since clearly the Icy conversion (done by Nectar) was blocked. Sorry Icy :(
So SpaceCowboy denied being converted and is probably scum.
Vote Lynch: SpaceCowboy
By the way. I'm not 100% unsuspicious of ben. He could have deduced we were bulletproof from failing to kill us two nights in a row (giving him further reason to suspect that Nectar and I were working together). He could have claimed being bulletproof X number of times, to explain why he will never be night killed because he's scum. And he is clearly FERVENTLY pushing for extermination of my 3rd party. Take that as you will.
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Vote: Nectar
Wasn't buying your nonsense yesterday, not buying it today, especially after Iceberg's flip.
I understand your vote! Is there anything I can do to change your mind in any way? Let me ask you (and the rest of the town) some questions
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If we are "full of it" and lying, then what do you think we're hiding? Do you not think we are the ones creating these cyborgs?
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Do you think we have an ulterior win condition other than converting the whole town? Why would we be granting powers if we were against the town? I thought about this myself, and my only possible conclusion is some kind of theory that we have to convert people first, and then we can kill them. But that would be pretty weird! And plus, if this is the case, do you believe there really is no existence of mafia in the game? Having two townie-killing parties would suck.
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If you think we are killing the town somehow… why would we come forward and why would Nectar execute that strategy from Day 3? Do you not think we'd just keep trying to kill people we converted? It would not be worth the risk.
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Do you not at least want to try real scum hunting, if you do not trust us?
By the way, I didn't say this before, but there are sort of two routes we (the 3rd party) can take. We can try to get last night's people to claim and suss out more possible mafia, or we can try to keep the people who have abilities hidden and hope that they can fight the mafia (and maybe even clear us). I am guessing the first option is off the table if the town is still so suspicious of us. But yeah.
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The question of the Day. Who do we lynch? Foolio or Nectar?
I'll hop to Nectar.
Vote: Nectar
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You could take the time to consider what I said and answer my questions.
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No offense Foolio, but after what happened yesterday, i think all of us want, at least, to take a look at one of your party Role Messages. No matter what you may say today, one of you will probably be lynched.
I take the same stance i had on Day3.
I already clamied i was a vanilla during other days, i made all of my logic based on that, and i have not been altered in any way and i have no idea why. If you want to lynch me go ahead, but it will be Iceburg 2.0.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Also, and about your questions/points, if you can´t be killed by the mafia, why are you so reluctant about giving us one of you guys?
You are magic ability machines that give everything the town wants and needs except for candy.
Put yourself in our spot. Would you buy this? -
I already said I understood that sentiment, but the worst thing the town can do is take the easy route without any critical thinking and without any scum hunting. Even if we were in theory some evil 3rd party, the mafia is higher priority. Since you know. They don't give townies power roles. So I am not begging for our lives here. I am asking for critical thinking.
Some more question then! When Nectar flips, and you realize we are not lying. What's your game plan? I will be roleblocked in perpetuity. There would be one other member that is unknown and that's it.
Is it really more important to see one of our 3rd party flips today than to try to lynch an actual mafia?
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Stating that i am taking an easy route when i didn´t even cast a vote (and i ask everyone to take their votes for now) is a bit insulting.
We have 3 days. I feel like we can get some extra info based on what happened during the night and that will probably help our course of action during the following turns.
I will not rush a lynch for Nectar or you, i´m just saying that one of you will probably be lynched tonight. -
Also, and about your questions/points, if you can´t be killed by the mafia, why are you so reluctant about giving us one of you guys?
You are magic ability machines that give everything the town wants and needs except for candy.
Put yourself in our spot. Would you buy this?To your first question: the reluctance is because we want to achieve our win condition. The mafia must be eliminated for us to win, and we need the town to lynch mafiosos for that. Not us. And, we also need to convert the whole town to win. That is going to be nearly impossible with only one member possibly carrying out successful conversions.
Second question: hey, we didn't know we were giving out powers either. But this is why I want people to think. Because someone is giving them out. We are creating cyborgs (we knew this) and enhancing townies (we did not know this, it came from people admitting it). Do you deny this? Do you have an alternate explanation? Now. If you think we are helping the town but are also against it, I just want you to try to come up with a sensible scenario where that could be the case.
BTW let's not forget you claimed to have different wording in your PM. I'm quite confident that all townies got the exact same PM.
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Stating that i am taking an easy route when i didn´t even cast a vote (and i ask everyone to take their votes for now) is a bit insulting.
We have 3 days. I feel like we can get some extra info based on what happened during the night and that will probably help our course of action during the following turns.
I will not rush a lynch for Nectar or you, i´m just saying that one of you will probably be lynched tonight.I was talking to the town, not to you specifically.
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To your first question: the reluctance is because we want to achieve our win condition. The mafia must be eliminated for us to win, and we need the town to lynch mafiosos for that. Not us. And, we also need to convert the whole town to win. That is going to be nearly impossible with only one member possibly carrying out successful conversions.
Second question: hey, we didn't know we were giving out powers either. But this is why I want people to think. Because someone is giving them out. We are creating cyborgs (we knew this) and enhancing townies (we did not know this, it came from people admitting it). Do you deny this? Do you have an alternate explanation? Now. If you think we are helping the town but are also against it, I just want you to try to come up with a sensible scenario where that could be the case.
BTW let's not forget you claimed to have different wording in your PM. I'm quite confident that all townies got the exact same PM.
The answer your first point, if we lynch, let´s say, Nectar, and we find nothing suspicious or out of line with what you claimed, we don´t have any reasons to lynch you and your other buddy. The sacrifice of one would definitly place everyone on the same page for the rest of the game.
About your last line, i´ve also thought about that, and it´s genuinly making me worried.
Xas claimed he the infamous double negative and now that he is dead, his text is the same as mine. Unless there is the said double negative in that text, and i don´t think there is, there is a high chance Bogart is indeed changing the PM´s of Vanillas when they die, and for that logic, i just don´t understand why mine is different from the rest.
I hope it´s not a mistake, because it will feel like im being Mod killed.Anyway, i don´t expect to live through Day 5.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Anyway, who would you like to see dead during this Day Foolio? Except for me
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
Also, i think Xas death confirms Tyrano and Gerri´s townieship. Add this to Harv and put Nectar and Foolio on the third party and we have 7 people that might be Mafia.
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Of course.
1. What do you mean "cyborgs" though? I only see 1 so far which was Trapped (R.I.P.). If you're talking about alterations and giving Town members some kind of power (are they Cyborgs?) then yeah, I do believe the 3rd Party is doing that.
2. We don't really know what your win condition is, do we? The only thing we know about your win condition is what you all told us. Is this not true? Do you see nothing wrong with this? Of course you don't. You're on the advantageous end of that exchange. Have you considered your ability to grant powers might just be a double edged sword? You will win if you alter everyone alive but for every alteration you make you give your enemies some kind of power.
You say yourself how powerful your 3rd Party is. Can't be killed by Mafia. Privileged to communicate amongst one another. And an ability that makes you a seemingly ally of Town? The only people who can kill you while you hide behind the Mafia threat? It would make sense that you would have some kind of disadvantage. Hell, you can even vote against the Mafia to kill them. It's not like you can't touch them.
With that said, I do believe there is a Mafia but I'm not exactly sure who. That's what scum hunting is for and so far it got us to lynch 2 Townies. I'm not giving up on finding them but I'm not going to ignore the possible threat right in front of our faces.
3. I believe you came forward for 2 reasons.
A.) To genuinely help us hunt scum because they're the only people you can't convert. While it's true you can hunt scum without coming out your efforts to help us hunt scum can be incredibly improved if you came out of the shadows and introduced yourselves as a powerful helping party that can win "alongside" of Town. Because of your ability to communicate amongst one another, a promise of a "joint win condition", and whatever system you devised to help us find the Mafia we would be likely to follow if convinced.
B.) If any of you 3rd Party members were inconveniently lynched later on before you all came out, you'd have a harder time explaining to Town that all along you were just trying to help us from the shadows. Of course, anyone with a power role tries to help from the shadows so they don't get lynched or blocked but there's one major difference.
They're Town. You're not.
4. I'm always up for scum hunting but should we ignore you?
I can't blame the town for wanting blood from my 3rd party given last night
Of course you can't.
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Anyway, who would you like to see dead during this Day Foolio? Except for me
I still suspect Huschel, other than that I might have to do a bunch of re-reading in the context of last night's deaths.
1. What do you mean "cyborgs" though? I only see 1 so far which was Trapped (R.I.P.). If you're talking about alterations and giving Town members some kind of power (are they Cyborgs?) then yeah, I do believe the 3rd Party is doing that.
Yes. trapped is the only person who has been converted and died.
2. We don't really know what your win condition is, do we? The only thing we know about your win condition is what you all told us. Is this not true? Do you see nothing wrong with this? Of course you don't. You're on the advantageous end of that exchange. Have you considered your ability to grant powers might just be a double edged sword? You will win if you alter everyone alive but for every alteration you make you give your enemies some kind of power.
You say yourself how powerful your 3rd Party is. Can't be killed by Mafia. Privileged to communicate amongst one another. And an ability that makes you a seemingly ally of Town? The only people who can kill you while you hide behind the Mafia threat? It would make sense that you would have some kind of disadvantage. Hell, you can even vote against the Mafia to kill them. It's not like you can't touch them.
With that said, I do believe there is a Mafia but I'm not exactly sure who. That's what scum hunting is for and so far it got us to lynch 2 Townies. I'm not giving up on finding them but I'm not going to ignore the possible threat right in front of our faces.
That's why I'm asking if you guys can envision a scenario where we're powering up our enemies that makes sense. Because I can't. Unless you think we're killing townies. And if so does it make sense that we would have blown our cover? Up until now I was convinced there was another group with the ability to annihilate my own, but nothing has happened so far so I don't know. And I'm also not asking you to ignore this possible threat (in the town's eyes), just if it's really more important than finding actual mafia. We KNOW the mafia kills townies.
3. I believe you came forward for 2 reasons.
A.) To genuinely help us hunt scum because they're the only people you can't convert. While it's true you can hunt scum without coming out your efforts to help us hunt scum can be incredibly improved if you came out of the shadows and introduced yourselves as a powerful helping party that can win "alongside" of Town. Because of your ability to communicate amongst one another, a promise of a "joint win condition", and whatever system you devised to help us find the Mafia we would be likely to follow if convinced.
B.) If any of you 3rd Party members were inconveniently lynched later on before you all came out, you'd have a harder time explaining to Town that all along you were just trying to help us from the shadows. Of course, anyone with a power role tries to help from the shadows so they don't get lynched or blocked but there's one major difference.
They're Town. You're not.
Both are very good reasons. The first one is very true in the sense that we want to actually get mafia lynched. We have not lied at all about win conditions. When Gerri pointed out the possibility of us being considered a "threat" and thus not being a joint win condition, I readily agreed with him. I'm not trying to hide anything. I just highly doubt it's the case that we don't both win because I don't see how we're a threat. It wasn't an evil scheme hatched behind closed doors. Also, Nectar's activity wasn't planned. He just decided to go for it because he was garnering a lot of suspicion on Day 2. Your second point is not badly reasoned but again, we didn't actually know we were handing out powers. In fact, we were told townies lost their original abilities upon conversion. I thought we were actually removing townie (or other 3rd party!) powers and that thus we would be hated. Yet Nectar still felt coming forward was best.
4. I'm always up for scum hunting but should we ignore you?
Nope you shouldn't ignore us! The question is if it's really a priority. You know who two of us are. We can be lynched whenever. Do you think we're the imminent threat and that we are killing you guys?
Glad to open up these dialogues with you guys. I feel like there's nothing I can do anymore but go along with the town now that my cards are on the table. Any scum hunting I do myself can easily be dismissed as "but you're a dirty 3rd party liar." So I at least want to put my thoughts out there.
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That's why I'm asking if you guys can envision a scenario where we're powering up our enemies that makes sense. Because I can't.
I don't think it makes sense other than that it's just an unfortunate side effect of your alterations. It's not like you need to kill Townies to win. All you need to do is alter us and every time you alter us you get closer to your win condition, but we get a power. Powers you don't know you're granting and powers of which you don't know if they can harm you or not.
Btw, I was altered last night and one of my reasons for coming out and saying this is obviously to let people know I'm not Mafia. Also, if anyone else wants to give out info regarding their status to help the 3rd Party "suss" out Mafia then I will start this train.
I never "fully trusted" the 3rd Party and I still don't but at least I know we have a common enemy. (Unless somehow 3rd Party is killing us). I still want one lynched for reasons stated already. Actually, I would like one lynched as soon as possible (today as i originally planned) so we can move on from there.
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Alright, I can't blame the town for wanting blood from my 3rd party given last night. But here is my current theory.
All townies are vanilla until we turn them into cyborgs. We grant the town powers at night, which can be used to fight the mafia. What we did not know is that we actually granted abilites. All we knew is that we were creating cyborgs, and that the mafia could not be converted. The fact that we are churning out doctors, among whatever else, seems to mean we are doing pretty powerful stuff. To counter this, it's possible that ALL mafia are roleblockers.
That's a fun theory, but it contradicts with this quote:
By the way. I'm not 100% unsuspicious of ben. He could have deduced we were bulletproof from failing to kill us two nights in a row (giving him further reason to suspect that Nectar and I were working together). He could have claimed being bulletproof X number of times, to explain why he will never be night killed because he's scum. And he is clearly FERVENTLY pushing for extermination of my 3rd party. Take that as you will.
If ben's mafia and he knew about you and Nectar, then I shouldn't have gotten my power from Nectar on N2 if there were that many blockers around.
Now. The fact that neither Nectar or I died means to me that there might not be anyone out there with an ability to destroy my 3rd party. Unless trapped doctored me or Nectar, who were the kill targets. It does worry me how this seems overpowered. 3 townies that cannot be killed by the mafia, and who go around handing out powers. This would mean their main goal is to take us out at this point. Keep that in mind. But maybe there is still something harmful to us out there that hasn't occurred yet, so I'm not sure.
If what you think about the mafia is true, then it seems that they cannot kill you. This would mean that you can continue to give out powers with near-impunity, which you say you can use to determine mafia. Being bulletproof means town can't kill you (where applicable) and mafia can't kill you. (Also, referring to yourselves as townies? You already said you were third party, are you having a laugh with me?)
Either way I can understand wanting to see one of us flip, but it would be a huge blow to the town.
Based on what I've said above, it isn't. If the mafia can't kill your people, then you'll live as long as town allows. Giving out powers is irrelevant to the fact that you're working towards your win condition. If we go along on your 'mafia-checking' plan and we succeed before you convert us all, you lose. The only way you don't lose is if town waits. We have to LET you win with us.
That doesn't make any sense.
To me, that means there's a way for you to win WITHOUT us. That would make you all threats.
- If we are "full of it" and lying, then what do you think we're hiding? Do you not think we are the ones creating these cyborgs?
Nectar's specific knowledge of my conversion is proof to me that third party is responsible, even if it wasn't Nectar himself.
- Do you think we have an ulterior win condition other than converting the whole town? Why would we be granting powers if we were against the town? I thought about this myself, and my only possible conclusion is some kind of theory that we have to convert people first, and then we can kill them. But that would be pretty weird! And plus, if this is the case, do you believe there really is no existence of mafia in the game? Having two townie-killing parties would suck.
Two killing parties doesn't match the deathless nights up until now.
- If you think we are killing the town somehow… why would we come forward and why would Nectar execute that strategy from Day 3? Do you not think we'd just keep trying to kill people we converted? It would not be worth the risk.
Killing specifically, no. I assume that you came out because you were feeling the heat from detractors like Mrs. Iceburg and myself.
Mrs. Iceburg's dead thanks to the third parties' accusation, and Nectar outed himself because he thought I was mafia.
No justification for that by the way, just…Harvady's maf, guys.
- Do you not at least want to try real scum hunting, if you do not trust us?
This is true. As it's been said, you third party people can't win while the mafia is alive. Relying on the third party isn't feasible/possible. Losing trappedolphin and xasjjx bring us about square with a typical day four. That means that a third party lynch is a good bet, ESPECIALLY if it turns out that town would have to anyway. Mafia always needs majority to win, so we can keep one or two of you third parties around to keep the numbers up until we figure things out. I do have a theory to find mafia though, don't worry about that.
I already said I understood that sentiment, but the worst thing the town can do is take the easy route without any critical thinking and without any scum hunting. Even if we were in theory some evil 3rd party, the mafia is higher priority. Since you know. They don't give townies power roles. So I am not begging for our lives here. I am asking for critical thinking.
Giving powers only works if you aren't being "roleblocked in perpetuity."
Vote Lynch: Nectar
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Well Foolio, after yesterday there is really no way we can trust you until we flip. Now if what you say ends up being true than I'd certainly be willing to entertain the idea of keeping you alive for a bit. Though, that's mostly because I'd imagine the mafia want nothing more than to tie up the towns hands with the third party for two weeks. Luckily for you Nectar seems to be the lynch preference.
Also, can I assume from your silence in the matter that Outerspec was indeed one of your targets?
Did you target anyone else?
Vote Lynch: Nectar
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I was altered last night.
Have no idea why Iceburg was lynched over anyone yesterday :/
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So you guys are robots, eh, Foolio? Robots that are upgrading humans with (perhaps random) advanced cybernetic components (reads game intro again…)? And you're claiming that you are NOT a threat to the rest of us?
... Seriously?
Alright, I can't blame the town for wanting blood from my 3rd party given last night. But here is my current theory.
All townies are vanilla until we turn them into cyborgs. We grant the town powers at night, which can be used to fight the mafia. What we did not know is that we actually granted abilites. All we knew is that we were creating cyborgs, and that the mafia could not be converted. The fact that we are churning out doctors, among whatever else, seems to mean we are doing pretty powerful stuff. To counter this, it's possible that ALL mafia are roleblockers.
How do you know that all townies are vanilla (I'm not. Trapped probably wasn't.)? We're supposed to believe that you're just going around "churning out doctors"?
The far simpler explanation is that trapped was a Doctor before you all put your steel claws on her. She became a "Cyborg Doctor", enhanced with some kind of upgrade/power. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like she got the same one as me. It really would have been awesome to have a Doctor that was X times Bulletproof on our side.
Nectar's actions yesterday have done nothing for town but get a target painted on the back of probably the only Doctor that we had to protect us from the Mafia, while also getting yet another vanilla townie lynched. Funny thing is, now that we don't have a Doctor, the only legitimate protection that we have from the Mafia is the ability that you all gave me. Have you done this to secure yourselves an "important" position on the side of the town? You guys have some serious 'splainin' to do.
Now. The fact that neither Nectar or I died means to me that there might not be anyone out there with an ability to destroy my 3rd party. Unless trapped doctored me or Nectar, who were the kill targets. It does worry me how this seems overpowered. 3 townies that cannot be killed by the mafia, and who go around handing out powers. This would mean their main goal is to take us out at this point. Keep that in mind. But maybe there is still something harmful to us out there that hasn't occurred yet, so I'm not sure.
Foolio, I want your honest opinion on how you think these powers are getting doled out. You say that your third member targeted me on Night 1, and I got this protective ability. Space was targeted on Night 2, but is claiming to be unaltered as of yet. Who was their Night 3 target?
If the N3 target can come forward and verify their alteration/ability with mine, then we may be able to prove (1) that each member of the third party is capable of supplying only one type of upgrade, and/or (2) that Space was either blocked from your action on Night 2 or that he's immune to your ability for some reason. If this third member of your group is really giving out protection from guns only, then his or her targets shouldn't be too afraid to come forward. We'll definitely have bulls eyes painted on us, but we're still not ideal targets because of the protection.
On this subject, Foolio, I'd like for you to elaborate a little more, please (you're much easier to talk with than Nectar, at least when you're not being so accusatory). Please tell me why you know that your third party alteration ability does not work on Mafia. Your entire argument about the joint win, as well as your argument about your benefit to the town is hinged on this one assumption - that you cannot give the Mafia upgrades.
Tell me, how or why do you know this to be true? Please be clear, otherwise I will continue to doubt everything you are saying that is based around this assumption.
By the way. I'm not 100% unsuspicious of ben. He could have deduced we were bulletproof from failing to kill us two nights in a row (giving him further reason to suspect that Nectar and I were working together). He could have claimed being bulletproof X number of times, to explain why he will never be night killed because he's scum. And he is clearly FERVENTLY pushing for extermination of my 3rd party. Take that as you will.
Do you really think that I'm so stupid that I'd have to be Mafia to tell that you guys were bulletproof, especially after my alteration and the deathless nights? It was completely obvious to me what was going on, for very simple reasons that I have already explained. Granted, it was a conclusion that was based around a slightly wrong assumption (I thought that you guys might be Aliens that were abducting/probing us - I want to believe~), but it was pretty on point nonetheless.
- If we are "full of it" and lying, then what do you think we're hiding? Do you not think we are the ones creating these cyborgs?
No, I'm pretty sure that that's your guys's doing. At least this much I believe.
What I think you're hiding is INFORMATION, and also that you LACK certain information (acting like you know everything about how your power works). All of your vague wording and guesswork so far makes that clear enough.
- Do you think we have an ulterior win condition other than converting the whole town? Why would we be granting powers if we were against the town? I thought about this myself, and my only possible conclusion is some kind of theory that we have to convert people first, and then we can kill them. But that would be pretty weird! And plus, if this is the case, do you believe there really is no existence of mafia in the game? Having two townie-killing parties would suck.
Like I said before, I've never heard of a Mafia game without a Mafia.
So, you admit that you guys may have the ability to make our upgrades self destruct? You admit that you might have the ability to kill us after alteration ("But that would be pretty weird!"), and you expect us to trust that you're no threat???
Unless you can believably piece together all of the half truths you've told us already by giving us the FULL STORY, then I think that we need to flip one of you all as soon as possible to at least verify your win condition claims.
- If you think we are killing the town somehow… why would we come forward and why would Nectar execute that strategy from Day 3? Do you not think we'd just keep trying to kill people we converted? It would not be worth the risk.
You want to know what I honestly think? I honestly believe one thing you told me yesterday - that you're trying to eliminate the players that can prevent you from winning.
Sure, Mafia (if they can't be altered/upgraded), would represent a portion of the players that are blocking you from a win. But so are all the other living unaltered players. It is completely in your benefit to get an unaltered towny lynched (like Mrs. Iceburg and/or SUDK), since that will reduce the number of living unaltered players and necessarily bring you closer to your win condition. Furthermore, as I said on D3, a player with any sort of power role may represent a roadblock to you all - either they could help find your hiding third member, block you from performing further alterations, or they may even be able to kill you. I don't think that you would have any reason to want to keep people with these kinds of power roles alive, even if you had already altered them (furthermore, killing them wouldn't actually slow you down at all, since it doesn't change the number of living unaltered players).
- Do you not at least want to try real scum hunting, if you do not trust us?
Oh, I'm scum hunting, alright. But like OS said, I won't ignore the obvious threat that is staring me in the face.
By the way, I didn't say this before, but there are sort of two routes we (the 3rd party) can take. We can try to get last night's people to claim and suss out more possible mafia, or we can try to keep the people who have abilities hidden and hope that they can fight the mafia (and maybe even clear us). I am guessing the first option is off the table if the town is still so suspicious of us. But yeah.
I suggest that everyone who has been altered stay hidden.
Everyone except whoever you are saying was the target of your third member on Night 3. If they can verify their alteration with my own, we'll at least be able to figure some things out about this cluster. And, like I said, if they really did get the same ability as me, they shouldn't worry too much about drawing the attention of the Mafia.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Oh, I forgot.
Vote Lynch: Nectar
Because we need information. And Foolio at least seems willing to talk.
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Vote Lynch: SpaceCowboy
I outted myself, gave you the chance to lynch a Mafioso, and threw myself on the mercy of the Town. All this and all I wanted was one thing. One small thing, answer my question. "Were your altered?" That was all I wanted from you. I TOLD you it was important and what happened: One of you lied and a Townie got lynched.
Am I backing out our deal from last Day? No. I gave you important information, told you what you had to do and you didn't do it. I used the information I was given to point out Ben and Iceburg. Don't lynch me because of your mistake.
Your distrust in the face of a group giving you everything they know is sad. Your distrust got a Townie killed and now it's the same thing again today.
Why was Trapped lynched instead of Haravdy? Anyone think about that? Maybe she was on to something. She was in our court and now she's gone and the Mafia get another freebie thanks to the Town. Get it threw your heads, WE are the reasons Townies can be cleared. We are the biggest asset to the Town.
I was altered last night.
Have no idea why Iceburg was lynched over anyone yesterday :/
YES!!!!!!
Ladies & Gentleman, the Mafia has ONLY ONE ROLEBLOCKER! Last Night, Foolio & I both targeted the same person. That means two confirmed Townies today thanks to us AND the only way to continue clearing two people each Day is keep us all alive. Killing one of us is like killing a Cop. As we have said, we win if all the Mafia are dead and everyone left is a cyborg (except us, of course).What…
Ah i get it.Wait... What?
Can you tell me in which night i was targeted?
If there is a reason you can´t and i missed it before, than feel free to not say it.
Night 2
Yes, I don't believe almost any of what you've said so far. I'm not afraid to admit it.
Also, bullshit on your honesty claim. I will be glad to be rid of you after today if your wagon gets completed, you sneaky shady character.
I lie about one thing, come clean, and even explain why I lied. And this makes me worse than you? Bullshit.
Yes, you are worse because your one lie destroyed my plan to find and lynch a Mafioso. Do you not realize what you did? I gave caution about SpaceCowboy because he was targeted on a different Night, saying he could be roleblocked. You and Iceburg BOTH said you weren't altered. That meant there was no way both targets could be blocked, one of you had to be a Mafioso. You screwed the Town and Robots and now I could die for it.
Do you realize how much the Mafia wants us dead? We're clearing Townies!
This is true. As it's been said, you third party people can't win while the mafia is alive. Relying on the third party isn't feasible/possible. Losing trappedolphin and xasjjx bring us about square with a typical day four. That means that a third party lynch is a good bet, ESPECIALLY if it turns out that town would have to anyway. Mafia always needs majority to win, so we can keep one or two of you third parties around to keep the numbers up until we figure things out. I do have a theory to find mafia though, don't worry about that.
Is there any point to working with you guys? I'm being serious here. Because if there's not a chance then lynch me, lynch Foolio and Peter Parker (Robot #3) can keep to itself. Harvady has a plan, a better plan than using players who can confirm Townies AND each other, all the while being roleblocker bait for the Mafia. It must be a hell of a plan Harvady. I hope you can pull it off, for the sake of Peter Parker.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
So you guys are robots, eh, Foolio? Robots that are upgrading humans with (perhaps random) advanced cybernetic components (reads game intro again…)? And you're claiming that you are NOT a threat to the rest of us?
... Seriously?
Being a cyborg doesn't kill or change your alignment, but it does confirm your a Townie and make you a Mafia target.
The far simpler explanation is that trapped was a Doctor before you all put your steel claws on her. She became a "Cyborg Doctor", enhanced with some kind of upgrade/power. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like she got the same one as me. It really would have been awesome to have a Doctor that was X times Bulletproof on our side.
How dare we turn Trapped in a cyborg, clearing her AND you as Town. Come on, man.
Nectar's actions yesterday have done nothing for town but get a target painted on the back of probably the only Doctor that we had to protect us from the Mafia, while also getting yet another vanilla townie lynched. Funny thing is, now that we don't have a Doctor, the only legitimate protection that we have from the Mafia is the ability that you all gave me. Have you done this to secure yourselves an "important" position on the side of the town? You guys have some serious 'splainin' to do.
We already explained.
On this subject, Foolio, I'd like for you to elaborate a little more, please (you're much easier to talk with than Nectar, at least when you're not being so accusatory). Please tell me why you know that your third party alteration ability does not work on Mafia. Your entire argument about the joint win, as well as your argument about your benefit to the town is hinged on this one assumption - that you cannot give the Mafia upgrades.
Tell me, how or why do you know this to be true? Please be clear, otherwise I will continue to doubt everything you are saying that is based around this assumption.
It's in our role PM. Can't alter Mafia.
Do you really think that I'm so stupid that I'd have to be Mafia to tell that you guys were bulletproof, especially after my alteration and the deathless nights? It was completely obvious to me what was going on, for very simple reasons that I have already explained. Granted, it was a conclusion that was based around a slightly wrong assumption (I thought that you guys might be Aliens that were abducting/probing us - I want to believe~), but it was pretty on point nonetheless.
Probing you? What kind of pervs do you take us for? Peter Parker is a total nasty freak, but not Foolo and me.
What I think you're hiding is INFORMATION, and also that you LACK certain information (acting like you know everything about how your power works). All of your vague wording and guesswork so far makes that clear enough.
Foolio outted himself to save me and gave you the info I didn't. If I was lying, he'd let me die and continue on with the game.
So, you admit that you guys may have the ability to make our upgrades self destruct? You admit that you might have the ability to kill us after alteration ("But that would be pretty weird!"), and you expect us to trust that you're no threat???
Do you really think we would out ourselves if we had a killing ability? That would be stupid as hell.
Unless you can believably piece together all of the half truths you've told us already by giving us the FULL STORY, then I think that we need to flip one of you all as soon as possible to at least verify your win condition claims.
It's all out there, Ben. There is nothing left except the identity of Peter Parker.
You want to know what I honestly think? I honestly believe one thing you told me yesterday - that you're trying to eliminate the players that can prevent you from winning.
Seriously, go back and read Trapped's posts. She's a wise one. Stop trying to be Mrs. Iceburg 2.0 and learn from Miss Trapped.
I suggest that everyone who has been altered stay hidden.
Or don't because at the most two Townies will be cleared or you get a Mafia suspect if you don't lynch me.
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It's in our role PM. Can't alter Mafia.
Well, then, I guess you'd better paraphrase the relevant part for us.
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@Harvady:
If ben's mafia and he knew about you and Nectar, then I shouldn't have gotten my power from Nectar on N2 if there were that many blockers around.
You're right. Plus, as Nectar already pointed out, when me and him targeted the same person last night, the conversion went through. This probably means they only have one roleblocker, so my theory in regards to that is pretty much disproven.
@Harvady:
(Also, referring to yourselves as townies? You already said you were third party, are you having a laugh with me?)
Haha. Believe it or not, that was just an unconscious slip while I was writing. I was churning out these early posts pretty much in real time. I didn't stop to think or meticulously word my posts. I guess I honestly do consider myself a townie for all intents and purposes.
@Harvady:
Based on what I've said above, it isn't. If the mafia can't kill your people, then you'll live as long as town allows. Giving out powers is irrelevant to the fact that you're working towards your win condition. If we go along on your 'mafia-checking' plan and we succeed before you convert us all, you lose. The only way you don't lose is if town waits. We have to LET you win with us.
That doesn't make any sense.
To me, that means there's a way for you to win WITHOUT us. That would make you all threats.
I'm not sure what doesn't make sense. It has reached a point where we depend on the town to let us win, but only because of the way we outed ourselves. If we were converting townies at a rate of 3 people per night, it would only take 4 nights to achieve our win condition (assuming 4 mafia and that we didn't target any scum), so long as the town eliminated the mafia in the end. Otherwise it's a lot more like a mutual win condition. Or am I missing something here?
@Harvady:
Mrs. Iceburg's dead thanks to the third parties' accusation, and Nectar outed himself because he thought I was mafia.
No justification for that by the way, just…Harvady's maf, guys.
I definitely understand that Nectar was very confrontational and scarce on details. I won't defend him or argue for him… but let's just say it was definitely a source of agitation for me when I was still pretending I wasn't affiliated with him. But both he and I suspected you. I had already voiced my suspicions publicly. We both picked you to target on the same night to minimize the chance of being roleblocked, with the idea being that we could at some point rather confidently call you scum for not claiming to be altered. But we were wrong because you WERE altered. So it didn't go as smoothly as hoped.
@Harvady:
Giving powers only works if you aren't being "roleblocked in perpetuity."
Now that we've ascertained that there's probably only one roleblocker, the strategy of me and Nectar targeting the same person while the other one of us goes after a different target seems quite sound. Plus, keep in mind that it forces the mafia to throw away their roleblock(s) on us and not on any of the abilities we're evidently granting you.
Well Foolio, after yesterday there is really no way we can trust you until we flip. Now if what you say ends up being true than I'd certainly be willing to entertain the idea of keeping you alive for a bit. Though, that's mostly because I'd imagine the mafia want nothing more than to tie up the towns hands with the third party for two weeks. Luckily for you Nectar seems to be the lynch preference.
Also, can I assume from your silence in the matter that Outerspec was indeed one of your targets?
Did you target anyone else?
Vote Lynch: Nectar
Tyrano was dual targeted by me and Harvady. 3rd person targeted Outerspec. 2 clean clears, nothing still pending. This is what was supposed to happen yesterday, but things had to get complicated.
@ ben… Nectar already replied to a lot of your points and I think I already covered some of what you were asking of me. Obviously I don't KNOW that all townies are vanilla. By which I mean they started the game that way before us. It's just my theory because every unaltered townie has flipped vanilla and nobody has even alluded to using powers or reports for things. And you misinterpreted me about the killing altered people bit. I was just saying that's the only theory that makes sense in the eyes of someone who doesn't know, or doubts, our role PM.
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Well, then, I guess you'd better paraphrase the relevant part for us.
It's not cryptic. We have 5 clarifications about our ability in the PM
- The fact that multiple of us can target the same person during a night
- That the alignment of cyborgs remains the same
- That the alterations we make count as conversions and thus have lowest speed priority when abilities resolve. Meaning if we target someone and they die that same night, they do not count as converted.
- That we receive no reports about the outcome of our abilities
- That we can't roboticize mafia (this one is written in all caps even)
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By the way, here's a summary.
People who are definitely not mafia:
-Harvady
-Outerspec
-Tyrano
-Foolio
-NectarPeople who are probably not mafia:
-benjamminbrown
People who are probably mafia:
-SpaceCowboy
Remaining suspects:
-HolyGamer999
-Gerri
-Wooden_Giraffe
-Kubihige
-HuschelTo be completely honest. Even if we lynched at random at one of the "remaining suspects" we'd have a high chance of getting scum.
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I doubt your role PM.
Also, LOL if you think that Nectar sufficiently answered my questions.
No, I think that you need to reply carefully to all of my questions. It's obvious that I'm trying to help you figure out something that you don't even know about your own ability(ies), so I don't know why you all are being so uncooperative with me.
You guys are extremely untrustworthy. If you don't answer my questions to the best of your ability and provide a paraphrasing of the part of your role PM where it says that you cannot convert Mafia, then I will waste no more time even trying to read your ridiculous arguments.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Oh, sorry, I didn't refresh. Post #1643 was in response to your Post #1640, Foolio.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
Thank you very much for clarifying the points made in your role PM. Hopefully this will be able to help us figure some of this crap out.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
Outerspec, can you confirm that you got a protective enhancement during your alteration? One like mine?
We need to try and figure out how the third party ability is working. If we can show that one of them is always giving out a protective upgrade, then they would be worth keeping around for the remainder of the game for protection from the Mafia.
Third party lucked out (or they really do know a lot more about their abilities than they are letting on) - it seems like the only one of them that might be of any value to us is still anonymous.
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What? Are you saying a freaking Doctor ability isn't valuable?
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As for today. Let me say this. The same person who targeted benjammin also targeted SpaceCowboy, and it was NOT Nectar or me. Chances of roleblock are low. The real reason we suggested benjammin as low-risk yesterday was that we believed the 3rd member of our party would have the lowest chance of being blocked. Which was true, since clearly the Icy conversion (done by Nectar) was blocked. Sorry Icy :(
I don´t get this line.
I outted myself, gave you the chance to lynch a Mafioso, and threw myself on the mercy of the Town. All this and all I wanted was one thing. One small thing, answer my question. "Were your altered?" That was all I wanted from you. I TOLD you it was important and what happened: One of you lied and a Townie got lynched.
Am I backing out our deal from last Day? No. I gave you important information, told you what you had to do and you didn't do it. I used the information I was given to point out Ben and Iceburg. Don't lynch me because of your mistake.
Your distrust in the face of a group giving you everything they know is sad. Your distrust got a Townie killed and now it's the same thing again today.
Why was Trapped lynched instead of Haravdy? Anyone think about that? Maybe she was on to something. She was in our court and now she's gone and the Mafia get another freebie thanks to the Town. Get it threw your heads, WE are the reasons Townies can be cleared. We are the biggest asset to the Town.
I´ll say the same thing i said to Foolio.
Only an idiot would buy your story without any concrete evidence.
Place yourself in our spot and you will realize the reasons for our distrust.Also, how can i be 100% sure a cyborg is the same as a town and not considered "not-town" for game winning effects?
You're right. Plus, as Nectar already pointed out, when me and him targeted the same person last night, the conversion went through. This probably means they only have one roleblocker, so my theory in regards to that is pretty much disproven.
Have you ever wondered that, instead of role blocking one of you, they can protect one of use from conversition (which would get bypassed by 2 of you converting someone)?
It's not cryptic. We have 5 clarifications about our ability in the PM
- The fact that multiple of us can target the same person during a night
2) That the alignment of cyborgs remains the same - That the alterations we make count as conversions and thus have lowest speed priority when abilities resolve. Meaning if we target someone and they die that same night, they do not count as converted.
- That we receive no reports about the outcome of our abilities
- That we can't roboticize mafia (this one is written in all caps even)
How can we be sure about that?
- The fact that multiple of us can target the same person during a night
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What? Are you saying a freaking Doctor ability isn't valuable?
I already said that the much simpler explanation is that trapped was a Doctor before you guys touched her. I will not believe that you are turning some of your targets into Doctors. That's just dumb, Foolio.
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I don´t get this line.
Well the basic reasoning is twofold.
- That Nectar and I being so active would make us the most likely to draw roleblocks.
- That if our 3rd member succeeded on night 1, he is more likely to have also succeeded on night 2.
Have you ever wondered that, instead of role blocking one of you, they can protect one of use from conversition (which would get bypassed by 2 of you converting someone)?
Any ability that negates us is possible. If the mafia has the ability to block conversion instead of roleblocking, it implies they knew of our existence from the start though, which I doubt. If a townie has the ability to negate our conversion, that would contradict my theory of all townies starting as vanilla. I suppose it's technically possible.
Also, how can i be 100% sure a cyborg is the same as a town and not considered "not-town" for game winning effects?
How can we be sure about that?This one is quite easy. Anyone currently converted can ask Bogart.