o v o* Love how the moment I label something a 'rant' and include 'Rebecca' in it, people instantly go 'lol nope'.
Probably should have just labelled it a rant in general.
Or just like.
A big talk of reality.
Chapter 757: The Trump Card
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Off-panel? I didn't get that impression…. maybe anime will do that, but that's hardly cannon anyway :P
Well Oda has been doing a lot of offpanelling lately.
Just from the way Rebecca thought about "not wanting to fight anymore", I took that as her running after an initial skirmish or whatever with Dia.
Also offpanelling would make a lot of sense here, we saw the results of Rebecca attacking Dia before, we don't need to see it again, we can connect the dots here.
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o v o* Love how the moment I label something a 'rant' and include 'Rebecca' in it, people instantly go 'lol nope'.
Probably should have just labelled it a rant in general.
Or just like.
A big talk of reality.LoL Why do you label it in the first place ?
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Someone once said to make a great movie you need three great scenes and no bad scene.
This chapter was full of great scenes.
Barto crying. Something that's universally liked.
Gladius posing challenge. Yesss he gave Bart a hit. Has anyone done that albeit unintentionally?Robin being kickass. My favorite gal being my favorite gal. Give em hell!
Cavendish cares for his horse enough to drop his further advance.
Franky and Senor continuing their manly battle… through synchronized ballet that isn't actually under water.Fujitora being badass and so is Sabo.
Sabo got all dirty and is huffing. That's the fight people wanna see.
The Admirals move is really inventive compared to his other stuff and Sabo counters it with smarts and seems like they're both hiding their agendas to each other and yet probbing the other for more information.
Of course my fucking Korean forum is posting 100 posts per minute only discussing how weak Sabo is. Fuck you! Hopefully no-one else in this forum knows about me from that site :ninja:Yeah... Well Rebecca running away like a 16 year old girl in front of a killer of her own mother kinda sucked right?
It kinda did actually. But never really cared much for Rebecca as to wish her to take on an highest Doffy man.
I got my Robin this chapter so nami clone can be as useless as she wants to be.Really hyped for Kyros versus Diamanté.
Diamanté should actually be worthy opponent. Mhmmmn
Hopefully better than the yawn that is called zoro versus pica.And yay Law is freed. Please transport into the castle and go down again..?
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I'd love it if she overcame her mental blocks, thinking along the lines, "how stupid I was to forget what my father taught me. I can't give up no matter what!" and then form a tag team with Kyros against Diamante. Like she uses her fighting style to redirect Diamante to where Kyros is waiting and BAM! Justice and revenge for Scarlet. Or something like that. It would be a nice way to show reconciliation between Rebecca's inherent nonviolence and her father's teachings.
We're thinking along the same lines now lol.
Rebecca will get her triumphant moment , don't you worry.
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People who are unable to understand the way Rebecca's character is portrayed, YOU are the real disappointment in this thread, not her.
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Well Oda has been doing a lot of offpanelling lately.
Just from the way Rebecca thought about "not wanting to fight anymore", I took that as her running after an initial skirmish or whatever with Dia.
Also offpanelling would make a lot of sense here, we saw the results of Rebecca attacking Dia before, we don't need to see it again, we can connect the dots here.
Well the result was obvious, but i wanted to see her at least try.
I took "I don't want to fight anymore" as her being fed up with fighting whole her life to defend herself. But maybe Im wrong.
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LoL Why do you label it in the first place ?
Cause some peeps get pissy when you don't label your rants.
People who are unable to understand the way Rebecca's character is portrayed, YOU are the real disappointment in this thread, not her.
If this is a reference to me, that's pretty ironic of you.
Background = Character. That's what I'm taking into consideration, not gender.
Gender =/= Character.
Gender is merely a small part of it, but not a major denominator of character.
Just think. For example, if Luffy were a girl, would things be different? If Rebecca was a guy, in the same thinking, would things be different?
Just. Think. -
Her style of fighting wasn't going to do her any good against 1 of the top executives of DoFlamingo's family…what the hell did you think she was gonna do?
SOMETHING!
1. that guy killed her mother
2. she is a gladiator
3. she was trained to fightat the very least try to hit him or something. use her rage and revenge to attack him. she doesnt have to win, just do something. that's all i asked. instead she decided to run and cry and scream for help. :getlost:
that was a perfect chance for her and she blew it. if later kyros struggles and she helps (or even land the final hit), it wont do much because of what happened in this chapter. too late.
There's always Robin.
And Baby 5, I guess.
robin is more of a technical fighter. she's pretty strong for sure but her power comes from snapping people's limb and not pure, raw strenght like luffy or zoro or sanji. baby 5 is pretty close even though she use quite a lot of firearms, hopefully she use more meele attacks. we havent really see her kick some serious ass though.
i want a women char to do something like luffy's bellamy punch back in mock town. shakky (or whatever her name was) seemed strong but we only see her beat up a nobody in her bar.
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Oh and mangajoy's translations this week was a revelation.
Yeah… never open a chapter thread with that site.But it was hilarious.
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Well the result was obvious, but i wanted to see her at least try.
I took "I don't want to fight anymore" as her being fed up with fighting whole her life to defend herself. But maybe Im wrong.
I suppose it's ambiguous, hopefully we'll see Rebecca involved in this fight as I've outlined anyway.
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Yeah, I didn't think there was anything worse than mangapanda available. Guess I was wrong lol
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We're thinking along the same lines now lol.
Rebecca will get her triumphant moment , don't you worry.
I really hope you're right. It's just that she's reminding me too much of Tashigi now. At Alabasta she said she'd become stronger and what did that account for in Punk Hazard? Not that there isn't chance of redemption for them both.
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barto's fruit is one of the more interesting we have seen in a while…he can basically makes 3d shapes out of thin air that are basically indestructible
so many possiblities..also,he said there's a limit,but it's his limit one single barrier,or it's more about the size and less about the number? -
Yeah, I didn't think there was anything worse than mangapanda available. Guess I was wrong lol
Was it actually a translation though??
Maybe it was the fanfiction they had ready at hand for this chapter just waiting for pictures to slap in the dialogue.
Man I'm already off to reading it for the sixth time. -
Oh my gosh Law's free…!
Can we get a backstory now?
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I actually said holy shit out loud when I saw Fujitora use that simple gravity slash. Robin showing off was refreshing too, but I can't get used to her new face…
As for Rebecca it took me a while to get past my disgust to realize what is really going on with her and was shown again that this arc doesn't work when read weekly.
Do u guys think that's kuma's paw print on the cover page?
Now that you mention, it does look like it, but this is bottom of the ocean we are talking about. Maybe marines made some diving suits for pacifistas?
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barto's fruit is one of the more interesting we have seen in a while…he can basically makes 3d shapes out of thin air that are basically indestructible
so many possiblities..also,he said there's a limit,but it's his limit one single barrier,or it's more about the size and less about the number?He couldn't make a barrier big enough to block Pica's punch.
And now he has what it takes to make the perfect number of steps for his stairs but not a second barrier.So I think he can only do one barrier, the maximum size depending of his mastery.
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@Light:
I really hope you're right. It's just that she's reminding me too much of Tashigi now. At Alabasta she said she'd become stronger and what did that account for in Punk Hazard? Not that there isn't chance of redemption for them both.
Tashigi did at least get to cut down Monet though.
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Tashigi did at least get to cut down Monet though.
Now, where did I put my gif of Kars laughing…
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Rebecca reminds me of the son of Tom Hank's character from the movie ,Road to Perdition . Tom Hank's character doesn't want his son to use guns or follow the path of violence.
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Not defending Rebecca here since I find her weak and boring since the day she appeared but what do you expect her to do in front of someone who she knows is clearly stronger than her ?
And there is also the trauma that is coming back , she is in front of the very person who was pursuing her as a child with killing intent in the very place her traumatic experience happened . As a person I understand her reaction regardless of liking the character or not , she mentally went back in child mode there , forget power level and sexism talk and think psychologically , her mental breakdown is justified. -
Tashigi did at least get to cut down Monet though.
Only because of sneak attack. She couldn't have done a thing without Zoro.
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Now, where did I put my gif of Kars laughing…
She dealt the finishing blow ie she had a positive impact on that battle.
If Rebecca can do something like that after overcoming her fear then I'd be happy with her development.
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@indigo~ink:
Maybe I'm just in denial, but I could imagine Kyros getting beat up being the trigger for Rebecca to finally fight back.
Her whole character is based around this not wanting to fight/not wanting to have to be protected anymore conflict. Diamante was even teasing her about why she still wouldn't fight back… in other words, Oda pointed out to us that she still hasn't reached the point where she will stand up for herself. But now that she's been reunited with her father, maybe she will realise that sometimes you need to fight to protect what's important to you. It is a more compelling incentive than self-defence, which is what has been forcing her to fight so far.
Of course this chapter really could be Rebecca's character going down the toilet, but until the fight is over I'm going to try not to judge/rage too much about it.
This could be a good way to redeem her. Not that I'm expecting it, but I'll hold on to your words for the meantime.
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@Light:
Only because of sneak attack. She couldn't have done a thing without Zoro.
She still cut down a Donquixote officer, and a logia user at that.
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She dealt the finishing blow ie she had a positive impact on that battle.
If Rebecca can do something like that after overcoming her fear then I'd be happy with her development.
I still think have people the right, and should expect a little bit more.
Just my opinion though.
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I think that Doflamingo is working with World Goverment on taking down one of Yonko in some way and thats why Fujitora is so stubborn over not going against Doflamingo directly and taking him out.
As he understands that there is more at stake than one island( btw I think that Mingo was poisoning Whitebeard with meds before war - cooperating with Kaido/ WG before time skip).Sorry if somebody wrote that already- I am at work, just after reading todays chapter and wanted to share fresh thoughts.
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If this is a reference to me, that's pretty ironic of you.
Background = Character. That's what I'm taking into consideration, not gender.
Gender =/= Character.
Gender is merely a small part of it, but not a major denominator of character.
Just think. For example, if Luffy were a girl, would things be different? If Rebecca was a guy, in the same thinking, would things be different?
Just. Think.I read your original post, it was interesting but I have to disagree. You can't divorce a character and their background from their gender. Things which are conceptually whole can't be taken apart and treated as disparate elements, as if they have no relationship to one another. The fact is, Oda made this character a girl, a character who has always needed to be protected, who has yet to really stand up for herself. "What if Luffy (/a really strong determined character) was a girl" and "what if Rebecca (/a weak and useless character that needs to be looked after) was a boy" - what if these archaic gender stereotypes & their lengthy history of reinforcement throughout the entire series of One Piece… were completely reversed? Then no one would comment on gender? It doesn't make sense to argue from this perspective as you are discounting the entire context of the argument. The whole reason that gender is relevant is because the weak crying characters that need to be saved are, again and again, female characters, and the characters who are doing the saving are consistently male.
I'm not sure if I'm explaining this very clearly. That aside, just wanted to note that Robin's badassery this chapter was awesome and probably my favourite part of the chapter.
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Warning: long ass post.
For you people who don't understand why we find Rebecca so offensive, I'd like to remind you that the key to Rebecca's character is realizing that everyone around her won't always be around to protect her, and that she has to one day be able to protect herself. Her mother died trying to get her food, her grandfather and aunt were in no position to help her, even her father flat out said that he won't always be there to protect her, and that's why he's teaching her how to defend herself.
But along comes this chapter, and it throws out everything about Rebecca. She gives any attempts to fight or defend herself, and screams for her father to help her. Then Kyros just swoops in and all but says, "Hey Rebecca, do you remember me telling you all that about you learning to protect yourself, because I won't always be here? Well you just go ahead and forget about that." All those chapters building her character up, only to be thrown away in that span of five pages or so. What a fucking waste.
I'm terribly saddened that I have to agree with this post. And it saddens me that it happened on a chapter I was enormously enjoying up till the end.
Yup, she's like a Vivi except less cool.
Vivi's emotional moments were because she didn't want anyone to die. . .on a freaking civil war. Luffy called her out on that, and she moved on. On early every other account, she was mostly nice, it's just that her not being a powerhouse seems to not reasonate well with the average shounen manga fan.
Comparing her to the Rebecca we saw this chapter (not the overall arc's becca)? She faced Crocodile and tried to smash his face. She faced a massive Bananadile. She faced Mr.5. All of these while fully knowing she was weaker than all of these foes. Of course, she also took down Mr.7 and his buddy in one hit even though they had a higher rank than she did. And she had the willpower to try time and time and time again to stop the civil war. She NEVER gave up, faced enemies that severely overpowered her, went out on her own on a near suicidal undercover mission to save her country. . .Vivi was perfectly fine. Nothing like what we just saw.
You guys are hyping her "undefeated" gladiator thing like it was something, all the gladiators sucked, the foreign ones that came for the prize were the strong ones, Rebecca won her block by luck.
Rebecca has never been portrayed as "strong", true. But she apparently had great skill, speed AND observation haki. That's not too shabby, honestly.
Also, you talk about the foreing gladiators being the real deal? Well, one of the most "infamous" one in Block D was Suleiman, and from what we saw, Rebecca wasn't any weaker than him. She both blocked AND dodged all his attacks with relative/apparent ease. Overall, Oda portrayed Rebecca as being above average at the very least.
@Rogues':
Rebecca had enough intuition and speed to dodge Hakuba's incredibly fast split-second attack, which even Bartolomeo couldn't see, so why couldn't she dodge Diamante's simple sword slash?
Plus there's that. I still can't believe people still go on and on about that scene as "Rebecca got lucky" or "it was her helmet that saved her!", when word of god said it was pure skill, not luck. Rebecca, at the very least, had better reflexes AND speed to dodge a lighting fast attack that no one else on Block D had (and, as you said, even Barto couldn't see what happened).
Scenes like this are when Oda's writing is at it's lowest.
What bugs me is the inconsistencies on the way he's portraying his characters lately. I always thought Franky didn't give a SHIT if he was fighting a man, a woman, a robot, an animal. . .he just crushed his enemies and be done with it. Hell, he tried to smash Baby 5 with a massive punch, and then Kamehameha'd her ass into a mountain. That's not exactly restraint at work. And yet, 2 chapters ago she goes and kisses a girl so she doesn't intervene in his "real" fight. All for a gag, as this chapter further proved, but was it worth to taint Franky's character for that one joke? When, we know from how he tried to shoot down, smash, blow away and straight up murder a "little girl" like Baby 5?
And now, Rebecca. Which is even more glaring considering he's been writing her for a relatively short time, yet what we saw was that, yeah, she hates fighting, she hates violence, she's a full blown Riku and not a "beast" like Kyros, ok. . .but she stood up and wanted to do stuff on her own. I've been very vocal about somewhat liking Rebecca up till now; even when not super strong or determined to fight, she took it up upon herself to try and free the country on her own. And now, suddenly. . . Daddy please save me? Cause I don't like to fight? I willingly threw myself on the battlefield again but suddenly I realise I don't wanna be here and ACT? And do something? Cause after fighting for YEARS on the Colosseum against hundreds of guys who laughed at me and wanted to kill me just now of all times against my fucking nemesis right after Doflamingo I remembered that I totally can't stand fighting anymore?
It's too inconsistent for such a good author as Oda is (and the rest of the chapter actually proves that he's definitely a GOOD comic book artist and writer), and the fact he's doing it relatively frequently lately is worrying me.
@indigo~ink:
Maybe I'm just in denial, but I could imagine Kyros getting beat up being the trigger for Rebecca to finally fight back.
Her whole character is based around this not wanting to fight/not wanting to have to be protected anymore conflict. Diamante was even teasing her about why she still wouldn't fight back… in other words, Oda pointed out to us that she still hasn't reached the point where she will stand up for herself. But now that she's been reunited with her father, maybe she will realise that sometimes you need to fight to protect what's important to you. It is a more compelling incentive than self-defence, which is what has been forcing her to fight so far.
Of course this chapter really could be Rebecca's character going down the toilet, but until the fight is over I'm going to try not to judge/rage too much about it.
By the end of this fight with Diamante, she'll have protected Kyros in some way and helped him to win.
She'll rediscover her resolve when she's faced with a protect them or they die situation.
Let's just calm down.
I honestly hope both of you are right and I can shut my face, but a part of the damage is done already, as much as she still can mini-redeem herself later. Her daddy dearest already "freed" herself of the whole "you gotta defend yourself" and went back to a "as long as I'm here you don't need to do a blasted thing!", which, btw, is a totally backwards message to give to children everywhere, specially considering how good Oda is at "taking care" of the children. He's basically spoiling them by saying "your daddy will save your ass outta trouble!", and that's a totally wrong message to convey.
But, yeah. Let's hope she at least has the decency to stand up for herself once Kyros starts getting demolished and does a theme-reversal and a decent quote, something like "no, dad. You were right before: if I wanna defend something, I gotta do it myself, can't always rely on others!". That'd be good enough for me.
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I predicted we were gonna see some SaboFugi shit this chapter.
And I knew Sabo would be slightly weaker than Fugitora. ADMIRALS ARE SO UNDER-ESTIMATED. -
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I think it's mostly the trauma that might have shattered Rebecca's resolve. As much as we'd like the reaction to coming across your mother's murder to be "I'm gonna fuck you up!", another equally valid reaction is for the shock of it to just shatter your mental resolve where you end up being unable to do anything but run. Given it happened to Rebecca wen she was a child, even more so. I'm just gonna cross fingers that this is just set up for Rebecca overcoming her demons and that Oda isn't going to majorly shit the bed with her character whom I've really liked.
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Ah fuck it I'm leaving this thread alone besides from lurking.
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that B never runs out of tears , that was really frustrating
and wtf jinbe ?! -
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I was living the dream vicariously though Barto during the Robin scenes. Such a great few pages… my new pal Chicken-kun sacrificing himself for Luffy and my all time favorite Robin being a badass. :wub:
I also really liked Fujitora... he really does seem to just be casually holding Sabo back and having fun with it too.
Rebecca... eh?! shrug I get the feeling that she'll have to actually snap out of it and help Kyros, who seems to be speaking a little too ominously...
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Jinbe is like: "There is something fishy about this".
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Yup. Just as I thought. Oda screwed Rebecca out of a fight. And now he is teasing us with Nico Robin but I bet he will screw her out of finally getting a real fight as wellsigh That's the trouble with this kind of manga where it's only one man running the entire show
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LoL running…
@KageKageKing:Jinbe is like: "There is something fishy about this".
Looks like we got a new case.
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@Rogues':
Because she's a woman. Like "emotional stress" has ever been a legitimate excuse that's stopped Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, etc. from backing down against an opponent.
Isn't Usopp always under "emotional stress"?
And Coby during the war?
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@Rogues':
Again, that's a pretty bullshit excuse. If Rebecca possess and utilizes Kenbunshoku Haki inside the arena, then naturally she possess and can utilize Kenbunshoku Haki outside the arena. Being trained in intuition-based Haki and reflexive dodging abilities (which her training with Kyros was completely done outside the arena in the first place) doesn't just magically disappear when she exits the coliseum.
I agree that it doesn't magically disappear as soon as she leaves the colosseum, though at the same time meeting your mother's murderer at the exact same place where he killed her most probably triggers uncomfortable memories and traumas which can leave people paralysed and make them act worse than they would do under different circumstances.
Don't get me wrong, I don't see this as "Oda's writing is absolutely correct and his writing is realistic, she couldn't have done a single thing". She should have shown the desire to become stronger, move beyond her known limits yadayada. It in fact is wasted character growth potential. But I don't think that the behaviour she has shown is all that far off from what you would expect from a more or less ordinary human.She did better against him in Coloseum then she did here.
Which kinda proves my point of her doing better in her "natural" environment that she's used to.
Also, how can she concentrate much better in Coloseum, while crowds are chanting for die? That makes very little sense to me.
Because she has known these chants and fights for quite a while now. You get accustomed to it after a while, especially since she proved that she can handle herself in the colosseum.
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Isn't Usopp always under "emotional stress"?
And Coby during the war?
Not to mention all the SH were under emotional stress when Luffy told them to run away on Sabaody.
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Isn't Usopp always under "emotional stress"?
And Coby during the war?
Coby? Coby did great compared to Rebecca here.
And Usopp yes, but never to that degree.
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Coby? Coby did great compared to Rebecca here.
And Usopp yes, but never to that degree.
Coby did as much as Rebecca did if you compare it to first time she fight him .
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LoL Just to remind you, the fucked up character in this scene is Diamante.
'Yeah! Guns are much better!' -
Aohige what is Sabo saying after he transform into fire avoding Fujitora's attack?
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Chapter out on Mangastream! That was a great chapter! Bartolomeo gets a limit. Robin is extremely badass, Sabo gets a limit. I don't even mind that bit with Rebecca that much, as she did end up freeing Law. Just a great action chapter!
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A 360° gravity pulse wave thingy? So Fuji does have actual bad-ass, destructive moves besides summoning a meteor from space that can be quickly reduced to nothing by pretty much any strong character at this point.
I like it.