@Monkey:
Then you don't know enough to participate in this thread yet. Keep reading, less posting, for now.
He does want to capture Luffy at some point tough.
But I don't think he'll be final villain. It would be too anti-climatic! It needs to be someone Luffy has genuine grudge to, like Blackbeard!
@Monkey:
Then you don't know enough to participate in this thread yet. Keep reading, less posting, for now.
Well he said he's going to fight and capture Luffy, he kind of made a promise to him, that he'll get strong enough to fight him as his equal.
!
!
Is this a good enough reason?
MK, I'm curious about this. Do they really look exactly the same 20 years ago?
Yeah, they did. And even longer ago than I thought, that was the Franky flashback, which took place 22 years before the pre-timeskip.
Appearance aside, the fact that they're even the same people 22 years ago strongly suggests this isn't some rotating thing. On top of the fact that they go un-mentioned by Garp, Sengoku, or Whitebeard in any of their little talks about how their generation used to be.
Because normally there's no way those guys aren't roughly the age of the Roger generation. And they're obviously not just all politicians since they look clearly like people whove seen action (scars, the one guy with the sword). So it's not like Whitebeard wouldn't have mentioned them because they were pencil pushers.
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@Light:
He does want to capture Luffy at some point tough.
Yeah and "so does" the G-8 group.
The Good Marines won't be enemies with the Strawhats by the end of the series.
Spoiler: They aren't even enemies right now.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Well he said he's going to fight and capture Luffy, he kind of made a promise to him, that he'll get strong enough to fight him as his equal.
! http://i5.mangapanda.com/one-piece/433/one-piece-1693412.jpg
! http://i13.mangapanda.com/one-piece/433/one-piece-1693416.jpg
Is this a good enough reason?
You're not seeing a Marine Civil War in the future that ends the Absolute Justice faction?
I mean not even getting into how by the end of the series Luffy will likely have saved the world.
OK this makes sense to me. It's tough to draw that line of freedom vs. security. But I suppose I'd agree, maybe it wasn't justified after all. Especially considering the fact that people like Violet exist. Makes me believe the government would have a defined way of knowing the truth. But it's all bullshit anyways because the government is based on a lie. When everything about the scenario is wrong it's hard to pin the blame on one guy or decision.
Despite the situation being messed up Sakazuki was clearly responsible for killing innocent people. He wasn't ordered to kill them, it was in his duty to do everything to avoid killing them in situation, when he suspected scholars to infiltrate ships, but instead he decided to neglect his duty, despite not direct dangers from that side being involved.
Thing is Sakazuki has very twisted concept of justice. He is not the man who is willing to make huge sacrifices for greater goal and greater good. In his view justice isn't suppose to serve people, but people had to serve justice (and by that I mean his concept of justice) and if they are not doing it, they are rubbish. Those sacrifices he makes, lives he takes are insignificant for him. This is what makes him a monster.
@Monkey:
Yeah and "so does" the G-8 group.
The Good Marines won't be enemies with the Strawhats by the end of the series.
Spoiler: They aren't even enemies right now.
Gee, I didn't even know. :getlost: How stupid do you think I am?
I know they aren't enemies in a traditional sense. But they are still rivals. Coby and Smoker have clearly stated that they want to capture Luffy someday! Maybe they will give up on that but you can never be sure. Not even you can be sure! Maybe they team up at the final war but Luffy is definitely gonna continue being pirate after that. So I could see them both being frienemies with him even after that.
@Light:
Gee, I didn't even know. :getlost: How stupid do you think I am?
Well you say that, but then you still keep saying this.
I know they aren't enemies in a traditional sense. But they are still rivals. Coby and Smoker have clearly stated that they want to capture Luffy someday!
You seem to regard the characters like dogs chasing squirrels rather than grown men with agency and sentience.
@Monkey:
You seem to regard the characters like dogs chasing squirrels rather than grown men with agency and sentience.
Like I said they're rivals, not enemies! (Especially Coby.) Maybe they do give up with Luffy, maybe they don't. But all the buildup they have received must lead to something!
Unless you have actual arguments about why they're more likely to give up their rivalry than not, I don't have a reason to continue.
@Light:
Like I said they're rivals, not enemies! (Especially Coby.)
Coby isn't a rival at all.
Even Smoker is arguable.
What are they rivals over?
Coby looks up to Luffy, every encounter they've had is highly colored like Coby is meeting with his big brother.
The only competition I can think of here is just "let's both follow our dreams". Which at the end of the day in terms of Coby is nothing more than him being inspired by Luffy.
Smoker is an extremely prideful badass cop who doesn't like letting his prey get away. But is currently in the process of changing his views toward Luffy.
Their relationships are not defined by competition.
@Monkey:
Coby isn't a rival at all.
Even Smoker is arguable.
What are they rivals over?Coby looks up to Luffy, every encounter they've had is highly colored like Coby is meeting with his big brother.
The only competition I can think of here is just "let's both follow our dreams". Which at the end of the day in terms of Coby is nothing more than him being inspired by Luffy.Smoker is an extremely prideful badass cop who doesn't like letting his prey get away. But is currently in the process of changing his views toward Luffy.
Their relationships are not defined by competition.
Did you read Mortein's post? Coby clearly states he wants to capture Luffy someday!
And for Smoker, this part does indicate that Luffy considers Smoker as worthy rival.
@Light:
Did you read Mortein's post? Coby clearly states he wants to capture Luffy someday!
So do you like not know what subtext is or what.
And for Smoker, this part does indicate that Luffy considers Smoker as worthy rival.
Rival of what? This isn't Dragonball, people don't fight to be the best fighter (Zoro aside).
He's respecting Smoker and just wants to have a good friendly fight. It doesn't mean anything.
@Monkey:
Coby isn't a rival at all.
The only competition I can think of here is just "let's both follow our dreams". Which at the end of the day in terms of Coby is nothing more than him being inspired by Luffy.
Although I don't see Coby and Luffy beeing rivals, there IS a reason why one became a pirate and the other one a marine. And it is not only to show, that humanity/freedom isn't something one party monopolises.
Although I don't see Coby and Luffy beeing rivals, there IS a reason why one became a pirate and the other one a marine. And it is not only to show, that humanity/freedom isn't something one party monopolises.
Yes, and the momentum of the series is moving toward the good among both realizing they are not enemies.
Making the idea that Smoker and Coby will attack Luffy after the final parts of the story silly.
@Monkey:
So do you like not know what subtext is or what.
Sorry, not seeing any subtext. Coby obviously respects Luffy and wants to fight him again, but he clearly stated he'll capture him someday. How much more straightforward can it be?
Rival of what? This isn't Dragonball, people don't fight to be the best fighter (Zoro aside).
He's respecting Smoker and just wants to have a good friendly fight. It doesn't mean anything.
Guess we're just interpreting their relationship differently. Smoker has mellowed out with Luffy and doesn't see him as just another evil pillaging pirate anymore, but he still has to say he's given up on capturing him. Maybe he will do it eventually, but I'm not convinced yet.
@Monkey:
who are not part of the Marines command structure, are clearly some sort of thing Marine Admirals rotate into.
Then where do they come from? I'm sure the WG pulls old men off the streets for this sort of job.
@Monkey:
Yes, and the momentum of the series is moving toward the good among both realizing they are not enemies.
Making the idea that Smoker and Coby will attack Luffy after the final parts of the story silly.
In anything more than a bit of friendly competition along the lines of Shanks and Mihawk, no.
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Then where do they come from? I'm sure the WG pulls old men off the streets for this sort of job.
Not from among the ranks of the marines anyway, there's never been even a hint of that alluded to by anyone.
Not from among the ranks of the marines anyway, there's never been even a hint of that alluded to by anyone.
Fair enough but still, kong is CC of the WG and he came from the marines, so why not the gorosei? I can't remember anybody hinting at where they came from.
Fair enough but still, kong is CC of the WG and he came from the marines, so why not the gorosei? I can't remember anybody hinting at where they came from.
Exactly, we don't really know anything about them at all, apart from they seem to be the absolute authority of the WG, and have looked pretty much exactly the same for the last 22 years.
It hints at something a lot more than just promoted marines.
Exactly, we don't really know anything about them at all, apart from they seem to be the absolute authority of the WG, and have looked pretty much exactly the same for the last 22 years.
It hints at something a lot more than just promoted marines.
True but this isn't just any marine, this is the fleet admiral. How much bigger can you get?
I was fine with the rampant facism but grammar nazi's? That's where i draw the line
16 chars of Heil Webster!
@Light:
Sorry, not seeing any subtext. Coby obviously respects Luffy and wants to fight him again,
The reality is different than that. Like going by all things.
but he clearly stated he'll capture him someday. How much more straightforward can it be?
I'm thinking you don't know what subtext is.
Guess we're just interpreting their relationship differently. Smoker has mellowed out with Luffy and doesn't see him as just another evil pillaging pirate anymore, but he still has to say he's given up on capturing him. Maybe he will do it eventually, but I'm not convinced yet.
Given a huge world war where Smoker and Luffy are on the same side, Smoker's faction wins, and Luffy saves the world…what on earth would be beef between them.
Same goes for Luffy and Coby.
In a world where Absolute Justice is defeated what would a group like the Strawhats be that would make them criminals.
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Then where do they come from? I'm sure the WG pulls old men off the streets for this sort of job.
You're talking like political positions are normally filled with military people. Do you live in a junta or what?
The WG may be totolitarian but it's not a junta. People in politics don't pop out of the military just because.
BUT that's all beside the point. I'm actually saying the Gorusei are from the Void Century, those same five guys have been the leaders since the void century of the WG.
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True but this isn't just any marine, this is the fleet admiral. How much bigger can you get?
You can be an ancient clique of pandora's box custodians? That seems to carry a lot more weight than fleet admiral!
@Monkey:
In a world where Absolute Justice is defeated what would a group like the Strawhats be that would make them criminals.
On account of destruction of property, obstruction of justice, and helping dangerous criminals?
@Monkey:
You're talking like political positions are normally filled with military people. Do you live in a junta or what?
The WG may be totolitarian but it's not a junta. People in politics don't pop out of the military just because.
I've been of opinion that it will become Junta though. It's just me.
Also, unless Luffy is stronger than Whitebeard by the final battle, I think Akainu would still provide more than enough challenge.
I mean, basically every one of his attacks is insta-death (Unless you are Whitebeard, and you have plot shield of giant size)
On account of destruction of property, obstruction of justice, and helping dangerous criminals?
What part of a coup'de'tat overthrowing the old order don't you get lol.
I'm sure in China after the Communists chased out the Nationalists they charged crimes on anyone who obstructed the nationalist government and broke nationalist laws.
Makes sense.
I've been of opinion that it will become Junta though. It's just me.
Since everything points to the Gorusei being a hell of a lot more than just feeble old bureaucrats, the set up of Akainu overthrowing them seems heavily presumptuous.
Also, unless Luffy is stronger than Whitebeard by the final battle, I think Akainu would still provide more than enough challenge.
Akainu isn't the final villain.
I hope Akainu tries a coup and the Elder Stars knock him on his ass.
@Monkey:
What part of a coup'de'tat overthrowing the old order don't you get lol.
I'm sure in China after the Communists chased out the Nationalists they charged crimes on anyone who obstructed the nationalist government and broke nationalist laws.
Makes sense.
I'm sorry, will they release everyone from Impel Down as well?
You are acting like every single action straw-hats took was against goverment and forces of old order, and somehow changing goverment will change that as well.
Some thing remain crimes regardless of who is in charge.
Vigilantism, btw, is a crime as well, so they would be guilty of that.
@Monkey:
Since everything points to the Gorusei being a hell of a lot more than just feeble old bureaucrats, the set up of Akainu overthrowing them seems heavily presumptuous.
By everything you mean that sword one of them is caryring and their scars. Oh, and they didn't changed their appearence.
Not exactly convinced that they are in any way, shape or form stronger than, say, Spandam.
@Monkey:
Akainu isn't the final villain.
You have your dreams, I got mine.
Obstruction of justice…as administered by corrupt jackasses
Helping dangerous criminals...as in Mr. 2
Destruction of property...government property
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By everything you mean that sword one of them is caryring and their scars. Oh, and they didn't changed their appearence.
Not exactly convinced that they are in any way, shape or form stronger than, say, Spandam.
Wow, did that point just fly over your head.
Don't they actually provide justice in the eyes of the winners, when the 'Absolute Justice' supporters lose?
No, because they do not serve justice, but their own self-interest. It's the same when you gun down a robber in the middle of the street. You will be sentenced for that.
Like whom?
Crocodile.
Now that's just pedantic.
Tell that to a person that lost home because of someone cutting it in half.
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@Cyan:
Obstruction of justice…as administered by corrupt jackasses
If you know that a cop is corrupt, and you break his face because of that, while having no proof at all, will you be punished?
@Cyan:
Helping dangerous criminals…as in Mr. 2
I was going to say Crocodile. And those flying fish SLAVERS.
@Cyan:
Destruction of property…government property
Like wall of this bar Luffy destroyed in Alabasta.
@Cyan:
Wow, did that point just fly over your head.
So you have other proof that what MK is saying is correct. Good, present it. I'm curious as to what I missed out.
You have your dreams, I got mine.
Aikanu killed Luffy's brother. And he's an ass.
Yes, that makes things personal, sure. In the scale of global war and changing the old paradigm? That's incredibly insignificant.
His face wasn't even shown until 57 volumes into the series, and he's been played up as more or less an equal to three other guys (five now) in the navy alone. And he has guys that outrank him. Yes, he's among the top strongest characters and Luffy will have a grudge, and he'll be beaten near the end of the series, but he won't be the final battle. Beating him will feel good for Luffy, but simply knocking him out won't change anything in terms of the world or overall plot, any more than beating up Lucchi did. (Especially given Oda's policy on killing. Luffy won't kill the bastard. Even Aikanu will likely have a chance to be redeemed. )
Blackbeard has been teased since Drum, has a crew with dark equivalents to each of the strawhats, he is the guy that officially killed Whitebeard, has been heavily foreshadowed as killing Shanks, was ALSO partly responsible for killing Luffy's brother, has a stated goal as pirate king, incredibly unique with the two devil fruits, already faced off against Luffy a couple times, and is in general going around wrecking things. And even he might not be exactly the final battle, depending on how things shake out, but he and his crew will probably be the last major confrontation where every strawhat gets a 1 on 1 fight. Depends on if his showdown happens at Raftel or in the final war… but likely he'll have an ancient weapon in the end.
There's going to be a giant world wide war with basically every character in the series thus far, and Aikanu is only going to be one small piece among that. He's only one of a handful of strong marines. He's the fight Luffy gets, his role is only personal, not critical the to the overall plot. (And a different admiral for Zoro and Sanji to fight).
@RobbyBevard:
Aikanu killed Luffy's brother. And he's an ass.
Yes, that makes things personal, sure. In the scale of global war and changing the old paradigm? That's incredibly insignificant.
His face wasn't even shown until 57 volumes into the series, and he's been played up as more or less an equal to three other guys (five now) in the navy alone. And he has guys that outrank him. Yes, he's among the top strongest characters and Luffy will have a grudge, and he'll be beaten near the end of the series, but he won't be the final battle. Beating him will feel good for Luffy, but simply knocking him out won't change anything in terms of the world or overall plot, any more than beating up Lucchi did. (Especially given Oda's policy on killing. Luffy won't kill the bastard. Even Aikanu will likely have a chance to be redeemed. )
Blackbeard has been teased since Drum, has a crew with dark equivalents to each of the strawhats, he is the guy that officially killed Whitebeard, has been heavily foreshadowed as killing Shanks, was ALSO partly responsible for killing Luffy's brother, has a stated goal as pirate king, incredibly unique with the two devil fruits, already faced off against Luffy a couple times, and is in general going around wrecking things. And even he might not be exactly the final battle, depending on how things shake out, but he and his crew will probably be the last major confrontation where every strawhat gets a 1 on 1 fight. Depends on if his showdown happens at Raftel or in the final war… but likely he'll have an ancient weapon in the end.
There's going to be a giant world wide war with basically every character in the series thus far, and Aikanu is only going to be one small piece among that. He's only one of a handful of strong marines. He's the fight Luffy gets, and a different admiral for Zoro and Sanji (Or blackbeard).
There no personal connection between Blackbeard and Luffy at this point though. Blackbear defeated Ace… and that's it.
Also, problem I have with that: It would make WG totaly insignificante in the grand scheme of things if the chief of their strongest military organisation doesn't have anything to add in the final conflict.
There no personal connection between Blackbeard and Luffy at this point though. Blackbear defeated Ace… and that's it.
Luffy know he captured Ace, and held it against him. And Blackbeard is very likely going to kill Shanks. (Mihawk and Yasopp might get screwed over as well.)
Also, problem I have with that: It would make WG totaly insignificante in the grand scheme of things if the chief of their strongest military organisation doesn't have anything to add in the final conflict.
He'll be involved in the war. He'll be among the final enemies. But just knocking him out won't singlehandedly topple the entire government. (And Luffy is NOT going to kill him, so…) There's more to just beating up the one tough guy... that isn't even the number 1 top in charge. The ancient weapons are going to be involved in some way, all three of them. So probably one for the marines, one for Blackbeard, and mermaid princess for Luffy. No telling where Dragon's forces fall in there.
Hell, Aikanu may not even be Luffy's fight... He might be Smoker's. (Or Smoker/Luffy tag team... would have a lot more story weight to it that way)
Don't forget the world nobles have to be dealt with too.
Arlong killed Nami's mother and terrorized her village for a decade, and that makes it personal, but he's not going to show up and be her final enemy, same for Aikanu. Having a grudge alone does not mean they have significance in the greater story as a final antagonist.
From what we've seen so far worst threats to Justice are: World Government, Sakazuki and Absolute Justice Faction (those are global scale), … far below them are evil Masterminds like Crocodile and Doflamingo, powerful nobles and not so benevolent kings (those are national scale) and far below them are other pirates and criminals (local and personal scale of injustice).
Only situations so far when Straw Hats were threat to Justice was when someone of their crew of dear people where endangered. They wouldn't have been a threat to justice if they and people they love were left in peace. They do not follow the codes, but at the same time they wouldn't violate the codes, if they hadn't been pushed.
Sorry Monkey King! I'm not seeing your subtext.
@Monkey:
Given a huge world war where Smoker and Luffy are on the same side, Smoker's faction wins, and Luffy saves the world…what on earth would be beef between them.
Same goes for Luffy and Coby.
In a world where Absolute Justice is defeated what would a group like the Strawhats be that would make them criminals.
I've actually been thinking about this. If Absolute Justice was abolished then the Luffy wouldn't be an outlaw anymore. On the other hand… wouldn't he lose what he has been pursuing since the beginning of the series. How can he be the Pirate King if he's not a pirate. Guess it could be solved by making just being a pirate legal but I don't know... As far as I'm concerned, something would be missing. It's just my opinion tough. 
On the other hand, SH's aren't angels and have never been. As Luffy creating a prison break and Robin handling Pluton to Government shows, they don't really care about the world as much as they care about their loved ones. So it wouldn't necessarily be the smartest choice to just give them a full pardon.
Light Bro, I just fixed your post.
Keep it polite.
@RobbyBevard:
Luffy know he captured Ace, and held it against him. And Blackbeard is very likely going to kill Shanks. (Mihawk and Yasopp might get screwed over as well.)
I'm of the same mind, but I was speaking about how situation looks at the moment.
@RobbyBevard:
He'll be involved in the war. He'll be among the final enemies. But just knocking him out won't singlehandedly topple the entire government. (And Luffy is NOT going to kill him, so…) There's more to just beating up the one tough guy... that isn't even the number 1 top in charge. The ancient weapons are going to be involved in some way, all three of them. So probably one for the marines, fone for Blackbeard, and mermaid princess for Luffy.
Hell, Aikanu may not even be Luffy's fight... He might be Smoker's. (Or Smoker/Luffy tag team... would have a lot more story weight to it that way)
Maybe, but even so… Not saying that Blackbeard won't be one of the final villains, but I have always thought that there is going to be more than one side to the final battle.
Like four, or five, or more. And among those, I think Akainu would be one of the prime players.
@RobbyBevard:
Don't forget the world nobles have to be dealt with too.
They don't seem that dangerous at the moment, though. Sure, they have a lot of influence, but they seem to be unwilling to use it in any meaningful manner.
@RobbyBevard:
Arlong killed Nami's mother and terrorized her village for a decade, and that makes it personal, but he's not going to show up and be her final enemy, same for Aikanu. Having a grudge alone does not mean they have significance in the greater story as a final antagonist.
Arlong was dealt with though. He was defeated, his grab on Nami broken, and any plots regarding him ended.
We don't have that with Akainu. He killed a protagonist brother, and basically walk away without conseqeunces. It demands resolution.
IMO Akainu is like the Witch-King of Angmar and everyone is mistaking him for Smeagol.
@Light:
If Absolute Justice was abolished then the Luffy wouldn't be an outlaw anymore. On the other hand… wouldn't he lose what he has been pursuing since the beginning of the series. How can he be the Pirate King if he's not a pirate.
!
Pirate King is just a title. What he's really after is something else: namely, the biggest personal freedom he can possibly get so he can adventure as much as he wants and live to his heart's content.
In Loving Memory of Toraish, Rex Avium: http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=40786 | 3DS Friend Code: 3196-4274-7836
@Toraish:
I remembered that. Still something would feel like missing… :ermm:
Arlong was dealt with though. He was defeated, his grab on Nami broken, and any plots regarding him ended.
He's still alive and his existence continues to extend to the next generation. The point is, JUST having a personal vendetta doesn't make someone a final foe. They have to have more influence on the plot than just one character having something personal against them… even if its the main character.
We don't have that with Akainu. He killed a protagonist brother, and basically walk away without conseqeunces. It demands resolution.
Well yeah. And we'll get it. And yes, the final war will likely be a 4 or 5 ways split among a bunch of factions. Aikanu will be among the last battles. But he won't be THE last battle. There are people that outrank him in official importance, and others that have more weight in counterbalance to the leads (and screen time)
(And now that I've said it, he actually does make a lot of sense as a final enemy for Smoker. Or even Coby. It's always sat a little odd for me that there's only three admirals plus one fleet admiral when there's so many strawhats to go around… and some of them aren't flat out evil... I imagine Fujitora would be hard pressed to side with the bad marines in the final battle, and Kuzan has already turned.)
@Light:
How can he be the Pirate King if he's not a pirate.
Luffy just wants the freedom, he doesn't care about the responsibilities or infamy or reputation that go with the title (which he's never really thought about the negatives on.)
Honestly I'm still expecting Buggy to "officially" get the title.
@Toraish:
! http://i21.mangapanda.com/one-piece/507/one-piece-64856.jpg
Freedom means lack of rules though. And lack of rules means that they would probably break some law.
I mean, come on. Also, they already did things that are not easily forgiven.
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@RobbyBevard:
Well yeah. And we'll get it. And yes, the final war will likely be a 4 or 5 ways split among a bunch of factions. Aikanu will be among the last battles. But he won't be THE last battle.
Ah, if you meant who will be the final BATTLE, then yes, I agree with your assumption of it being Luffy vs Blackbeard, unless someone unforseen is going to be the final villain, which I don't see happening.
Freedom means lack of rules though. And lack of rules means that they would probably break some law.
I mean, come on. Also, they already did things that are not easily forgiven.
Oh yeah, absolutely. I'm not even trying to argue that the whole crew would be instantaneously pardoned (which in all honesty could happen if Vivi becomes very influential in the new World Government that's probably going to be more like the One Piece equivalent of the UN) or that their future crimes, which they will undoubtedly still commit because of, well, Luffy's way of living, will all be ignored because they're the saviours of the world or whatnot.
It's just that Luffy's quest is not primarily about being the top pirate, so changing the world order doesn't really concern him as much. Not that piracy would ever be made lawful, but regardless.
In Loving Memory of Toraish, Rex Avium: http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=40786 | 3DS Friend Code: 3196-4274-7836
Ah, if you meant who will be the final BATTLE, then yes, I agree with your assumption of it being Luffy vs Blackbeard, unless someone unforseen is going to be the final villain, which I don't see happening.
Ah yeah, overall thread topic had me assuming that's what you meant.
Yes, Aikanu will probably be the last most important marine defeated. And he will be beat down before its all done, no question.
@Toraish:
Oh yeah, absolutely. I'm not even trying to argue that the whole crew would be instantaneously pardoned (which in all honesty could happen if Vivi becomes very influential in the new World Government that's probably going to be more like the One Piece equivalent of the UN) or that their future crimes, which they will undoubtedly still commit because of, well, Luffy's way of living, will all be ignored because they're the saviours of the world or whatnot.
So at least one senior member agrees with me. Suck on that Your Majesty! 
@RobbyBevard:
Honestly I'm still expecting Buggy to "officially" get the title.
Buggy's going to be Pirate King and president of the reformed government.
question, what do you guys think of this whole discussion going on in the chapter thread about pre timeskip Black Beard being equally as strong as pre timeskip Luffy?
and what does that mean in terms of growth over the last two years?
@Light:
So at least one senior member agrees with me. Suck on that Your Majesty!
Nah, you don't get what Zeph is trying to say there. He's talking about the relations of Luffy and Smoker/Coby pretty strictly on a personal level, which will be something that goes from "This guy is a pirate, so he's a criminal" through "yeah, he's a pirate, but he's a pretty cool guy, why aren't we as cool?", which, by the way, is already happening now, to finally being "yes, he's a good guy… but he's still a criminal and I have to catch him... the next time".
Obviously they will be chased or at least feigned to be chased by the Marines in the end because that's how it works and that's what they do, but they'll most likely end up as a Redhair Pirates like crew that just chills out and does adventuring somewhere where they don't really get harassed by the rest of the world very much.
In Loving Memory of Toraish, Rex Avium: http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=40786 | 3DS Friend Code: 3196-4274-7836
@Light:
So at least one senior member agrees with me. Suck on that Your Majesty!
Didn't I JUST tell you to be polite?
@Toraish:
Nah, you don't get what Zeph is trying to say there. He's talking about the relations of Luffy and Smoker/Coby pretty strictly on a personal level, which will be something that goes from "This guy is a pirate, so he's a criminal" through "yeah, he's a pirate, but he's a pretty cool guy, why aren't we as cool?", which, by the way, is already happening now, to finally being "yes, he's a good guy… but he's still a criminal and I have to catch him... the next time".
I have realized that perfectly thank you! :getlost: I just think it's possible Smoker and Coby still keep chasing them for the sake of chasing them. Kinda like Garp and Roger.
Obviously they will be chased or at least feigned to be chased by the Marines in the end because that's how it works and that's what they do, but they'll most likely end up as a Redhair Pirates like crew that just chills out and does adventuring somewhere where they don't really get harassed by the rest of the world very much.
And Monkey King was talking about pardoning them. But we disagree eh? :happy:
@RobbyBevard:
Didn't I JUST tell you to be polite?
Sorry didn't see that! But with all due respect, he called me stupid first.
@Light:
I just think it's possible Smoker and Coby still keep chasing them for the sake of chasing them. Kinda like Garp and Roger.
Smoker might or might not, depending on his rank and his opinion on them. I could honestly see him give up on chasing Luffy and start treating him as an equal… until Luffy runs off with all the meat and gold in the whatever palace or Marine headquarters they've all assembled to celebrate and talk. But even then he'd probably at most just chase him for the fun of it and not all that seriously, probably never even taking him in should he happen to corner him at some point. That's the extent of the parallels between Roger & Garp and Luffy & Smoker, by the way, all you silly non-believers whom I know are out there.
Coby, though? Probably not. Coby only wants to become a good marine and probably rise in the ranks to a status where he can effectively do things to change the Marines for better as an organization. The only reason he told he'd fight and catch Luffy is that Luffy was a pirate and he was a marine in a world where the two are still actively at odds. That would change for him if the Marines changed and Luffy became less of a target.
And Monkey King was talking about pardoning them. But we disagree eh? :happy:
Well yeah, I might have been too hasty there. Looking back at what was actually said, you're right about that one, but I'm still kind of hard-pressed to believe that it's something he fully meant in the sense of the SHs being criminals in a juridical sense as opposed to them being criminals in the eyes of Smoker and Coby. But that's beside the point. :P
Freedom means lack of rules though. And lack of rules means that they would probably break some law.
I mean, come on. Also, they already did things that are not easily forgiven.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Ah, if you meant who will be the final BATTLE, then yes, I agree with your assumption of it being Luffy vs Blackbeard, unless someone unforseen is going to be the final villain, which I don't see happening.
What have I told you about Hobbes?! See this is what that shit does to you brain. Someone needs to talk to your teachers to give you different assignments before harm done to you is irreversible.
"I'm a bad guy! I don't save the day, I don't fly off to the sunset and I don't get the girl! I'm going home." - MegaMind
I'm sorry, will they release everyone from Impel Down as well?
Political prisoners? Of course. I Tom was alive he'd be out in two seconds flat. The main person you seem to be indicating by criminal aid, Robin, also free if she was thrown in. Ivankov as well. Any pirates who didn't actually do anything other than go on adventures like Luffy as well, since the only reason they're considered criminals if their threat to the current order.
You are acting like every single action straw-hats took was against goverment and forces of old order, and somehow changing goverment will change that as well.
Actually yes, virtually every single action the strawhats have taken was against the current government and forces of the old order yes.
You've…read this manga, correct?
Some thing remain crimes regardless of who is in charge.
I agree. Actual pirate type pirates, brigands rather than vagabonds, will still be criminals of course. As they should be.
Vigilantism, btw, is a crime as well, so they would be guilty of that.
ahahaha, you can't be fucking serious.
By everything you mean that sword one of them is caryring and their scars. Oh, and they didn't changed their appearence.
I don't know why I have to walk you through the implications of people having scars, larger builds (some of them), and weapons on their person. It's almost like authors give little details like that for the express purpose of expressing that aspect of them.
If Oda wanted to draw some stuffy bureaucrats, or foppish nobles, he's done that over and over. Nothing communicates that they're fragile office men ripe for having a coup pulled on them. Nothing. I don't care if you don't see enough evidence that they're veterans, because it's more than the absolute zero that suggests they're effete politicians.
Not exactly convinced that they are in any way, shape or form stronger than, say, Spandam.
Spandam even the second he showed up was so clearly drawn to show he's a goofy privileged asshole with no actual talent and too many family connections. Even before we learn about his daddy that was obvious. His entire character design and personality broadcast that.
And you see these hardened seriously drawn stoic chiseled guys….and you see Spandam.
It's sad when Oda can't get through to some parts of the audience.
You have your dreams, I got mine.
Oh god you're just a terrible terrible theorist lolll.
I mean is that Bingo? Bingo over here? Three strikes?
Whadda we have here.
You earnestly think Oda is preparing the finale to have the Strawhats being chased for vigilantism, you think the Gorosei are like Spandam, and you think Akainu is the final villain.
WOW. Just awful.
You know what this reveals about you though, not that you worship Akainu, but that you worship Ace. Because you're saying the greatest most central conflict of the series that should be the finale, is avenging Ace.
Ooh! Can't wait for that!
