You'd think Luthor would put retrieving the Amazo parts down as a higher priority. If it could just be reverse engineered, he'd have all physical power he could ever need.
Young Justice RETURSN OMG
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I want to see what's going on with the League and their trial or whatever, but I doubt that plot thread will be resolved (at least not onscreen)…
Looks like I might be wrong! Good stuff…
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Mal is one more whiny jackass.
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am i the only person who just doesnt care for the blue beetle
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am i the only person who just doesnt care for the blue beetle
Hey, homes, why wouldn't chu about the Blue Beetle, ese? Hermano, ese, ese, hermano.
Anyway, I don't either and that's a combination of Reach fatigue and the fact that Brave and the Bold did the character more justice.
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am i the only person who just doesnt care for the blue beetle
He's better in the comics. This show has misused him.
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Yeah I don't care about Jaimie.
Ted Kord, on the other hand… -
I just want to see the main team right now, I really miss their interactions in season One. Also IF(and thats a next to impossible if) the showrunners were to be given more time and money and all that(basically permission for four more seasons) do you think they would go back and do the time skip so that we have a complete picture? and is it something you guys would rather see?
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I just want to see the main team right now, I really miss their interactions in season One. Also IF(and thats a next to impossible if) the showrunners were to be given more time and money and all that(basically permission for four more seasons) do you think they would go back and do the time skip so that we have a complete picture? and is it something you guys would rather see?
No, they weren't interested in the middle. They WANTED the skip and the (unnecessary) questions it automatically raised, rather than growing and evolving the story lines naturally. That wasn't a choice dictated by episode count, its just what they wanted to do.
Since it creates drama and confusion and makes you go "what the hell happened to these characters? Why ae they broken up? Why is he a villain? Who are all these new people? How many Robins are there? What happened to the old people?"
Which to be fair, is a legitimate and interesting way to go with legitimate benefits… but the WAY they handled it, with no advance setup or warning, and YEARS of material being skipped in the middle... and also dropping most of the old cast from the show... Rather than just skipping a tedious training arc where the cast is all seperated, they skipped all the character growth and development too and that's why it was so jarring.
Especially after they'd spent the entire first season setting up the universe, hundreds of characters, getting their groove and trust going, and only just settling into an established status quo... and then they basically started from scratch again and squeezed in like 20 more years of comic history and growth off camera.
Had they gotten a third season they would have done that AGAIN and that's just... confusing and alienating.
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@RobbyBevard:
No, they weren't interested in the middle. They WANTED the skip and the (unnecessary) questions it automatically raised, rather than growing and evolving the story lines naturally. Had they gotten a third season they would have done that AGAIN and that's just… confusing and alienating.
Is the time skip IF they got season 3 fact or just speculation? Because if its fact then I think letting go of the show is going to be much easier for me since I won't have to care about what happens next after it ends.
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Is the time skip IF they got season 3 fact or just speculation? Because if its fact then I think letting go of the show is going to be much easier for me since I won't have to care about what happens next after it ends.
Weisman has stated he wanted every season to be a freshman class, and that there would have been another time skip between 2 and 3.
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Pretty much all of the problems I have with this show stem from cast size and the timeskip.
Because of those two elements, Young Justice relies too much on the viewers already knowing most of these characters from other works. Instead of really building their own versions of, for instance, Lex Luthor and explaining why we should care what he does, the viewers are supposed to care what he does because he's Lex Luthor. If you aren't familiar with those characters or plot elements, you're going to be lost and a lot of it never gets explained. Even when it does, there's a good chance that it is not mentioned again beyond that one time.
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@RobbyBevard:
Weisman has stated he wanted every season to be a freshman class, and that there would have been another time skip between 2 and 3.
That is really disappointing. Did he say why? I am sure it doesn't have anything to do with the audience because what he was planning to do was the exact opposite of thinking about the audience.
Or is it that he couldn't tell the stories he wants without the time skips? I'll admit my comic book knowledge can barely fit a matchbox as my knowledge mainly comes from the B:TAS, S:TAS and the justice league series. Is there something they are doing now they couldn't do with just the main cast?
Well either way if this is what he was planning(do you think its part of the reason that informed the decision to cancel?) then I'm glad because I won't be as sad as I would have been had it been otherwise.
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Yeah, its kind of a show built for fans who have been reading the comics regularly for 20+ years.
Which I have (I've read pretty much all the Teen Tian and Young Justice stuff, and heavily followed the DCU for years when I was younger) and I was STILL lost on some of the cast.
I can't imagine what that was like to anyone casually watching. For every "Oh cool it's that guy" moment I had, there was at least two more "who?"
for instance, Lex Luthor and explaining why we should care what he does, the viewers are supposed to care what he does because he's Lex Luthor. If you aren't familiar with those characters or plot elements, you're going to be lost and a lot of it never gets explained. Even when it does, there's a good chance that it is not mentioned again beyond that one time.
Similarly, the Joker shows up and he's a completely minor one time forgettable character with no presence at all. If he wasn't THE JOKER you'd have no idea he was supposed to be important.
That is really disappointing. Did he say why? I am sure it doesn't have anything to do with the audience because what he was planning to do was the exact opposite of thinking about the audience.
I think he's just such a long time fan and he wanted to use everything the DCU had to offer. He wanted to play with all the toys and didn't realize that might be a problem for people that didn't have them before. Even with Justice League Unlimited and Brave and the Bold giving exposure to SOME of these guys before… it was just too much.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
Or is it that he couldn't tell the stories he wants without the time skips? I'll admit my comic book knowledge can barely fit a matchbox as my knowledge mainly comes from the B:TAS, S:TAS and the justice league series. Is there something they are doing now they couldn't do with just the main cast?
Well, legacy characters is the biggie.
There being a whole mess of Robins is a story line that takes a few years to get through. (Dick Grayson becoming Night Wing, Jason Todd being killed/becoming evil, Tim Drake being the best Robin)
Similarly, multiple Flashes is iffy, but since they didn't handle Impulse very well anyway, and they already had older Flashes in there, I don't think it would have been a huge loss if they'd just stuck with Kid Flash.
Also, obviously there's skipping the characters that made up New Teen Titans and the previous show, Starfire, Raven, Cyborg and Beast Boy due to them starring in the old show… but they still got around to Beast Boy anyway.
But other than that though it was a new universe and they could have done whatever he wanted. (For instance, Superboy being introduced as an original team member, rather than in the third or fourth iteration was something they did right off, and they could have started with a later Robin or Flash if they wanted.
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@RobbyBevard:
Yeah, its kind of a show built for fans who have been reading the comics regularly for 20+ years.
Which I have (I've read pretty much all the Teen Tian and Young Justice stuff, and heavily followed the DCU for years when I was younger) and I was STILL lost on some of the cast.
I can't imagine what that was like to anyone casually watching. For every "Oh cool it's that guy" moment I had, there was at least two more "who?"
I've always been more of a Marvel guy myself outside of animation; if not for Brave and the Bold, the various DCAU shows, and The Superfriends, I would have completely been lost on most of these characters. Some of them I still was; Queen Bee for one.
Of course, the various designs and way characters were introduced didn't help. I initially thought that was R'as al-Ghul that came aboard the Watchtower in that episode rather than Vandal Savage.
Similarly, the Joker shows up and he's a completely minor one time forgettable character with no presence at all. If he wasn't THE JOKER you'd have no idea he was supposed to be important.
Really, his depiction in that episode makes more sense if it was written as anybody but the Joker, in particular the Riddler, and executive meddling forced the change for whatever reason. Compare that episode to the later one where the team was ambushed by a group that actually did include The Riddler and see if you don't think so.
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@RobbyBevard:
Yeah, its kind of a show built for fans who have been reading the comics regularly for 20+ years.
Which I have (I've read pretty much all the Teen Tian and Young Justice stuff, and heavily followed the DCU for years when I was younger) and I was STILL lost on some of the cast.
I can't imagine what that was like to anyone casually watching. For every "Oh cool it's that guy" moment I had, there was at least two more "who?"
Similarly, the Joker shows up and he's a completely minor one time forgettable character with no presence at all. If he wasn't THE JOKER you'd have no idea he was supposed to be important.
I think he's just such a long time fan and he wanted to use everything the DCU had to offer. He wanted to play with all the toys and didn't realize that might be a problem for people that didn't have them before. Even with Justice League Unlimited and Brave and the Bold giving exposure to SOME of these guys before… it was just too much.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
Well, legacy characters is the biggie.
There being a whole mess of Robins is a story line that takes a few years to get through. (Dick Grayson becoming Night Wing, Jason Todd being killed/becoming evil, Tim Drake being the best Robin)
Similarly, multiple Flashes is iffy, but since they didn't handle Impulse very well anyway, and they already had older Flashes in there, I don't think it would have been a huge loss if they'd just stuck with Kid Flash.
Also, obviously there's skipping the characters that made up New Teen Titans and the previous show, Starfire, Raven, Cyborg and Beast Boy due to them starring in the old show... but they still got around to Beast Boy anyway.
But other than that though it was a new universe and they could have done whatever he wanted. (For instance, Superboy being introduced as an original team member, rather than in the third or fourth iteration was something they did right off, and they could have started with a later Robin or Flash if they wanted.
I figured his love for the content had something to do with it, its something I would have done in his place though not at the cost of telling a cohesive story, which does beg the question 20+ years of content is enough material to make an entire show on DC, why haven't they done this? especially DC animation(they make their own movies right?)they could make their won animation network only based on the DC universe and I think it would work really well.
Is it something that has ever at least been considered? Also teen titans(the animation) is it as good as Young justice? I tried watching it once but found it to be too campy for me.
As for your Tim Drake comment, what makes him the best Robin? what sets him apart from someone like Dick grayson? really interested on hearing a fans perspective on this. Also in the comics which is the largely accepted storyline for Jason todd, that the Joker killed him and thats all she wrote or he comes back thanks to R'aas al ghul (sp?) and becomes the red hood or is an actual continuity in the storyline such as like I've never heard of a different alternative to Babara Gordon being crippled by the joker?
Anyway really want to know what sets one Robin apart from the other two. Personally I'm liking Dick largely due to how YJ potrayed him and how he came to his decision to become Nightwing.
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Also teen titans(the animation) is it as good as Young justice? I tried watching it once but found it to be too campy for me.
yes! I'd say its better, and I'm pretty sure I've written essay length posts about it lol. And yeah, it campy at first glance but it's addictive. TT is an almost iconic show and here's why
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cast. Each character has a distinct design, color, and personality. Each character develops unique relationships with other members of the team, ranging from romantic to best friendship, to a mutual and private trust. This creates a really intimate bond w the viewer and the characters, as opposed to a wide range of characters with only occasional interactions or screen time.
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range. This show can go from looney tunes parody to some serious shit in the span of an episode, and it does it really well!
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villains. Major villains are all personally connected with members of the cast, and even lesser villains are really funny to watch. (Excluding season 5 which was kind of poor)
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ballsy. This show makes as many jokes as it can and moves on, it tries to tackle some serious issues and basically wasn't really afraid to be overly serious or overly silly about anything.
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- villains. Major villains are all personally connected with members of the cast, and even lesser villains are really funny to watch. (Excluding season 5 which was kind of poor)
I thought Brother Blood was kinda bland, but that's really more Sparkling Magic Cyborg's fault than it is Blood's. That just tainted everything to do with that storyline.
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yes! I'd say its better, and I'm pretty sure I've written essay length posts about it lol. And yeah, it campy at first glance but it's addictive. TT is an almost iconic show and here's why
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cast. Each character has a distinct design, color, and personality. Each character develops unique relationships with other members of the team, ranging from romantic to best friendship, to a mutual and private trust. This creates a really intimate bond w the viewer and the characters, as opposed to a wide range of characters with only occasional interactions or screen time.
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range. This show can go from looney tunes parody to some serious shit in the span of an episode, and it does it really well!
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villains. Major villains are all personally connected with members of the cast, and even lesser villains are really funny to watch. (Excluding season 5 which was kind of poor)
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ballsy. This show makes as many jokes as it can and moves on, it tries to tackle some serious issues and basically wasn't really afraid to be overly serious or overly silly about anything.
First of all link to your essay posts please?
Thanks for clearing that up, glad to know that the characters are engaging I especially like that they each form different relationships to each other and so long as it can do serious well that's good for me. I'll check out the first season but I would still love to read your posts about it.
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I figured his love for the content had something to do with it, its something I would have done in his place though not at the cost of telling a cohesive story, which does beg the question 20+ years of content is enough material to make an entire show on DC, why haven't they done this? especially DC animation(they make their own movies right?)they could make their won animation network only based on the DC universe and I think it would work really well.
Well, up until recently, the DCU had been running an ongoing continuity sort of since somewhere in the 70's. (The Crisis on Infinite Earths in the early 80's rebooted it some, but mostly Superman was the only title restarted from scratch-ish, everything else sort of kept going with mild soft reboots changing somethings, but keeping much of the continuity they already had.) They've had a couple more hard reboots since then, but…
Mostly the comics are a mess.
Is it something that has ever at least been considered?
Really the Paul Dini/Bruce Timm/Alan Burnett era of animated shows encapsulate the DCU pretty well. (Batman, Batman and Robin, Superman, Batman Beyond, Zeta Project, Static Shock, Justice League, Justice League Unlimited) It ran in some form or another for 15 years, hundreds of episodes, introduced characters slowly, largely had the best versions of some of those characters in any medium, had continuity, and kept growing and expanding upon itself.
Also teen titans(the animation) is it as good as Young justice? I tried watching it once but found it to be too campy for me.
Honestly? Teen Titans is probably better. The smaller cast pretty much being the reason. You got to know everyone well and they all had a different kind of story to tell (which harkens back to the comics knowing what they were doing genre-wise.) Plus they were willing to do comedy AND drama.
YJ is well animated and tight show, but the cast of thousands, required knowledge of comics, using a world that was already built instead of introducing the viewer to it, insistence on always being serious and not having fun, and the awfully misjudged time skip, all really hurt it. Its a good show, well done, but… created by a team trying to cram 30 years of stuff in there.
As for your Tim Drake comment, what makes him the best Robin? what sets him apart from someone like Dick grayson?
Dick Grayson outgrew being Robin and didn't want the role at least as far back as the 70's. He was raised by Batman and fought crime with him, but he's never really brought a lot to the role… his main asset is he's been around forever and become a good leader type that everyone knows... hes a well rounded lesser Batman, but he doesn't really excel at anything. Basically... he's better as the leader Nightwing, he's not so good as Robin.
Jason Todd was an ass. There's a reason fans voted for him to die.
Tim Drake brought a lot of modern sensibility to the role and really wanted to be Robin, and was an actual detective and electronics guy. He has fun with it. Of course, he was also paired with modern Superboy and Impulse which balanced him out really well.
really interested on hearing a fans perspective on this. Also in the comics which is the largely accepted storyline for Jason todd, that the Joker killed him and thats all she wrote or he comes back thanks to R'aas al ghul (sp?) and becomes the red hood or is an actual continuity in the storyline such as like I've never heard of a different alternative to Babara Gordon being crippled by the joker?
There's like 12 continuities now. Nobody knows. They keep rebooting their universe in a mega event every two years.
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Between Mal whining and "ese" turning, this episode wasn't that enjoyable.
! At least the plot has moved along a bit, though, with the betrayal finally happening and the Reach exposing that them having only one ship was a bunch of bullshit (the people better have noticed). Hopefully Arsenal can inform Nightwing of what went down and that the squad out in space has the manpower to handle Green Beetle if he also happens to expose himself as a traitor.
Also, is it just me, or was Captain Atom wearing a respirator in space while Captain Marvel didn't (as far as I could tell) weird? I would think it'd be the other way around, but I guess the magic of Shazam also allows Marvel to breathe in space? Sure, why not. Also, I preferred Justice League and Brave and the Bold's takes on Mongul over this one.Regarding the earlier topic about Teen Titans or Young Justice, I'll throw in my two cents and say that TT is the better show, for the reasons Robby already outlined. I re-watched the whole thing last month and had a blast, even if the show's take on Robin was a bit too angsty at times. Plus, where else are you going to find Beast Boy, Starfire, Cyborg and Raven (and Silky) dressing up as Robin while he's away training? The show struck a great balance between comedy and drama and even threw in some subtle romance from time to time, so you should definitely check it out, kevo_koma.
And since there was some discussion on who was the better Robin, I'd like to know which take on Batman you guys prefer: TAS, Justice League, Brave and the Bold, comics, movies, etc.?
As for me, I think I preferred JL's take on him, where he was usually playing detective and intimidating his enemies (but could still dish out a pounding when necessary). I also enjoyed the romance subplot between him and Wonder Woman, even if it went nowhere in the end. He really played off the other characters very well, it didn't matter if they were fellow Leaguers or enemies and that scene of him and Ace will always be a great Batman moment. Batman Beyond's finale kind of bummed me out a bit, but with the way Batman conducted himself and kept everyone at arm's length, it was the most logical conclusion…
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! At least the plot has moved along a bit, though, with the betrayal finally happening and the Reach exposing that them having only one ship was a bunch of bullshit (the people better have noticed). Hopefully Arsenal can inform Nightwing of what went down and that the squad out in space has the manpower to handle Green Beetle if he also happens to expose himself as a traitor.
! Yeah, I thought the same thing when the Reach sent up that fleet; a bunch of ships randomly rising up out of the ocean should have raised some instant warning flags. The lack of a comment within the episode probably means that didn't happen though or will be glossed over in the next one.
! The squad in space has Zatara-Fate with them, I doubt that they have much to worry about even from somebody as overpowered as a Reachified Martian.And since there was some discussion on who was the better Robin, I'd like to know which take on Batman you guys prefer: TAS, Justice League, Brave and the Bold, comics, movies, etc.?
TAS since he actually showed off his detective skills and we saw plenty of both sides of the character.
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My favorite Batman is the Brave and the Bold cartoon's. I really like the campy '60s style.
My favorite Robin is Dick, then Tim. -
! I'm sure Godfrey will scramble to run damage control (if it happens to be addressed). The League members in space definitely should've noticed that Reach ships intercepted the missiles that they and the armed forces missed, though, so they better start their own inquiry, especially considering how the Reach has been exposing their secrets left and right in order to vilify them.
! Also, yeah, there are some heavy hitters out in space, but the sonic cannon seems like a very overpowered weapon, as we saw in the episode previous to this one (and Green probably has more experience with his scarab, so he's a bigger threat than Jaime). I doubt the good guys will lose, considering the team inside War World is already up shit creek, but still.I also really enjoyed Brave and the Bold's take on Batman and all the various heroes who accompanied him (Diedrich Bader played an awesome Batman and John DiMaggio killed it as Aquaman). I didn't want the show to end, really, but unfortunately it did. I still need to watch the last season, though…
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They ended the episode on quite a low note, but if this current threat can be averted it seems we're in for a turnaround. The Reach's lie has been exposed, and Justice League PR is bound to skyrocket after saving the planet in such an overt and miraculous fashion.
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They ended the episode on quite a low note, but if this current threat can be averted it seems we're in for a turnaround. The Reach's lie has been exposed, and Justice League PR is bound to skyrocket after saving the planet in such an overt and miraculous fashion.
! Or the Reach could just give Blue Beetle all the credit and their fleet never be acknowledged at all, even by the League.
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! Or the Reach could just give Blue Beetle all the credit and their fleet never be acknowledged at all, even by the League.
! That was my biggest issue with the episode, especially since it seemed like that fight with Deathstroke could have been cut out to make room for it. Still, patience, it'll probably be brought up next week. And no way the Reach can convince everyone that Blue Beatle disabled War World singlehandedly. The general populace isn't that stupid, and as much as the show has dwelled on the Reach's positive PR, there's bound to be a ton of detracters off camera.
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! That was my biggest issue with the episode, especially since it seemed like that fight with Deathstroke could have been cut out to make room for it. Still, patience, it'll probably be brought up next week. And no way the Reach can convince everyone that Blue Beatle disabled War World singlehandedly. The general populace isn't that stupid, and as much as the show has dwelled on the Reach's positive PR, there's bound to be a ton of detracters off camera.
But they're just using Blue Beetle as a figurehead for the battle. The Reach admitted that Blue Beetle had help in an offhand comment, but they're making Blue Beetle the face/hero that "disabled" the War World.
As for the ships, I guess it could be said that the battle with the War World wasn't on video camera in real time, and if the fleet was isolated far enough into the Phillippines Sea, then it could be possible that the Earth's population doesn't know about it…still filmsy though.
But as for the League not saying anything. What would they even say?
"Hey! They kept hidden a bunch of fleet ships...that they just sacrificed to help save planet Earth..."
it's a tough sellNext week could be interesting though.
! The "team" that will be used to save the current captured team could be pretty interesting depending on how it's played out. If nothing else, it's a nice way to bring back that storyline back into the main plot.
But what bothered me this episode is that just like the "soda" reveal before, the episode spends the entire time having Nightwing do detective work when in the end, Blue Beetle reveals his treachery anyways before Nightwing does anything.
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At the very least Nightwing didn't just swallow Blue's tripe like a chump, unlike Captain Atom, and decided to look around a bit. I'm pretty sure he knew Blue was full of shit as soon as he found Robin's birdarang, but just didn't have definitive proof before Blue came out as a traitor publicly. Also, what the hell happened to Arsenal? Was he caught again? Or was he just too afraid of that possibility that he remained hidden even after the Beetles were gone? I kept expecting him to show up and tell Nightwing what actually went down, but it never happened.
At least the Artemis/Kaldur/Megan problem got solved, so that's something. Kaldur is whole again, Artemis' family know she's alive, Megan got out safely and all without Kaldur and Artemis having to blow their cover (well, at least until Simon wakes up, I guess).
Jaime endorsing the Reach makes me wish for a Superman vs. Captain Marvel scenario from Justice League Unlimited (only this beat down would actually be justified). As for who I'd like to see beating Blue down… hm, that's a tough call, but hopefully there are repercussions for his actions. It's not his fault that the Reach are evil, of course, but he is at fault for letting Green mess with his scarab without the League knowing…
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They can just keep administering that syrum to Psimon. Anyway, I have the same questions you do. This series is great, there's no question that it's largest flaw is needing to cram so much into 20 episodes.
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If you asked me about yj vs TT at the end of season one I would have said young justice , but after season 2 I feel like they really dropped the ball with the time skip. It honestly feels like I skipped a season. Still like it though. Bummed its ending. I actually like seeing characters I know nothing about.
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@moe:
It honestly feels like I skipped a season.
It feels like you skipped three or four seasons. And considering they crammed somewhere between 20 and 30 years worth of comic material in there off camera… yeah, there's a reason for that. (And this is after the first season stared with a built world that already had 20 years of continuity behind it. We'd onyl just started settling into that when they shook it up.)
For cripes sake, they skipped Dick's transition to Nightwing, a second Robin going evil/being killed, and then traight to a third Robin being in the role. That's... just not something you gloss over then explain in little dialogue catch ups.
They wanted the mystery and intrigue of "how did the characters end up at this point?" but they achieved that by skipping all the middle development and going straight to the afterward angst... which... didn't work so well.
It can in small doses or small timeskips... but not when you significantly change EVERY character and add an entirely new cast in a show and and entirely different main storyline in a series that's already crowded for space... heck, at the end of season 1 they were still JUST adding new members settling in. Zatanna had only just joined, and Rocket was there for about 8 seconds. It might have worked if the timeskip had been, say, six months... and if they just stuck with the group they had.
It also means that some stories, like "what happened to that missing day with the League" and "the search for real Speedy" which were supposed to be long drawn out multi-year things for the characters... had no arc, discovery or payoff at all for the audience.
The timeskip... I understand why they did it... but it was a big misjudgment to make. (Its Gargoyle's World Tour all over again!)
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Yeah, the time skip really screwed things up. I mean, in TAS we saw why Robin became Nightwing, but they can't really get away with it here, because Batman and Dick still seem to be on good terms. I've only read some of the more high-profile comics, so I'm not really clear on Dick's comic development (beyond reading his wikipedia page). Also, the Teen Titans don't seem to exist in the YJ universe, so what was Dick doing the whole time that Jason was in the picture?
I also would've enjoyed seeing Jason Todd in a series, since I enjoyed the Under the Red Hood movie. Plus, since I didn't read the comics, I don't really get all the flack that Jason Todd gets as "the worst Robin." And with Joker being such a minor character in YJ (and very bland, to boot), I find it hard to believe that he killed Jason in YJ's continuity.
Then again, the series dropped the ball a lot, so that's just something that we'll have to live with. Right now, I just want Jaime and the Reach to get what's coming to them, since I doubt the other plot threads can get wrapped up properly in 4 more episodes…
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@RobbyBevard:
It feels like you skipped three or four seasons. And considering they crammed somewhere between 20 and 30 years worth of comic material in there off camera… yeah, there's a reason for that. (And this is after the first season stared with a built world that already had 20 years of continuity behind it. We'd only just started settling into that when they shook it up.)
The timeskip... I understand why they did it... but it was a big misjudgment to make.
I really love this series, but…it feels like we're only getting snapshots. For every interaction we see, there are dozens happening off camera. Every single episode seems to have the impact of a series finale of any other show. It's pure, undiluted excellence, but the side effect is that so much is left by the wayside. That's my biggest issue.
(Its Gargoyle's World Tour all over again!)
Yeah, that world tour arc…it added a lot to the mythos and such, but the episodes were rather hit and miss. And it also made it seem like people were fools for not noticing the supernatural that turned out to be far more common than we had come to believe.
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Yeah, that world tour arc…it added a lot to the mythos and such, but the episodes were rather hit and miss. And it also made it seem like people were fools for not noticing the supernatural that turned out to be far more common than we had come to believe.
The biggest problem with the world tour is that is dropped half the main cast, (and the entire supporting cast) so we could follow Goliath, Elisa, the boring new girl, (Angela NEVER got interesting) and the dog who couldn't talk. For TWENTY EPISODES. 1/3 of the series!
Same sort of thing is happening here, where they're misjudging how much we want and need to see the original characters more. Ignoring the half the cast we like in favor of showing off the world more. Which is nice, but also a miss.
Worldbuilding is great, but not at the cost of the cast.
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i think YJ suffered from something I call Epic Webcomic Syndrome (a term i just made up), where the creators want to create this huge massive epic story and be all complex and intricate, but they never quite ever finish a story line, they just build and build and build on it. The difference between YJ and Teen Titans, or even Adventure time for that matter, is that they have small chapters of incidents with bad guys that get wrapped up, but are eventually continued in the over-arching storyline. the main cast doesn't change either
a big story is great, but in animation you don't have a lot of time. you have to build up accomplishments and characters through small stories and stand alone episodes. character trumps story every time, but you need to have humor for it to be memorable and a good story can help build up a rabidly loyal fan base.
i mean.. fuckin adventure time built up a really cool storyline in like… 6-7 eleven minute episodes. its all about precision, dawg
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Like I said before, I think a big problem for Young Justice was that it relied too heavily on people already knowing who a lot of these people are and what their motivations were from other sources. And not just a few characters, but a ton of them since this show had a HUGE cast.
Most of the successful DC shows have had a strong focus on both the villains and the heroes; we get to know the heroes more gradually as the series go by while villains have episodes centered around them that build them as characters.
Young Justice went a different way though. The focus was instead on a core group of heroic characters (and morally ambiguous characters directly related to them in a couple of cases) that we followed around the entire first season; sure, they got a lot of character development and we grew to really like them. Which was ultimately a waste of time since that entire team dynamic was tossed out between seasons, which could have worked, but didn't. Primarily because the first season introduced a bunch of unresolved material starring characters that, again, we didn't know much about. So we have a new team to introduce that has to complete for screentime with explaining what happened to the team from the first season we actually cared about on top of all the villainry going on the background. The Light being an enigma in the first season really needed to have a payoff in a second season that went into explaining them and their designs, but they largely get shoved aside for the Kroloteans and the Reach.
It's not that you have to go to great lengths to introduce villains; Teen Titans didn't and often just had them randomly show up out of nowhere, but it also gave those villains individual episodes to shine in. In Young Justice, it was all intermediaries and unwitting dupes and "EXACTLY AS PLANNED, ICHIGO KUROSAKI" at the end. It's one thing for David Xanatos to pull these sort of shenanigans since we got to know him pretty well, but when it's somebody that we don't, it gets to be tiresome really fast.
It was a show with a lot of promise that was pretty much crippled by some fairly inexplicable decisions regarding the timeskip.
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tbh i dont even know who the bad guys are any more
first it was like some light or something, then it's aliens or idek
joker was in there somewhere and i liked that magic kid and artemis' family but
that's all i really remember
anyway a large cast of main/rotating characters can work but not for CN i don't think.
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tbh i dont even know who the bad guys are any more
first it was like some light or something, then it's aliens or idek
This is pretty much my exact problem with the series right here.
joker was in there somewhere and i liked that magic kid and artemis' family but
that's all i really remember
Klarion was really the only member of the light to not only get a starring episode but to actually do something in it that wasn't to just show up, stand around, and still win at the end. Little surprise he was the only one to make a real impression.
anyway a large cast of main/rotating characters can work but not for CN i don't think.
I'd say Justice League Unlimited shows that it can work for Cartoon Network, but it really needs a lot more work than Cartoon Network is willing to put into anything like that anymore so you're probably right.
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But they clearly make sure you know that the Light and the Reach are the bad guys..? It gets brought up at least once an episode. "Stop, don't attack Aqualad he's undercover to find out more about the Light and the Reach!"
Unless, you're refering to the indvidual names. We just kind of got Lex, Blank Mantra, Deathstroke, and that Reach guy.
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I'd say Justice League Unlimited shows that it can work for Cartoon Network, but it really needs a lot more work than Cartoon Network is willing to put into anything like that anymore so you're probably right.
The difference is that Unlimited didn't try to tie everything together. 80% of the episodes were standalone or unimportant to the overall story.
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i think YJ suffered from something I call Epic Webcomic Syndrome (a term i just made up), where the creators want to create this huge massive epic story and be all complex and intricate, but they never quite ever finish a story line, they just build and build and build on it. The difference between YJ and Teen Titans, or even Adventure time for that matter, is that they have small chapters of incidents with bad guys that get wrapped up, but are eventually continued in the over-arching storyline. the main cast doesn't change either
a big story is great, but in animation you don't have a lot of time. you have to build up accomplishments and characters through small stories and stand alone episodes. character trumps story every time, but you need to have humor for it to be memorable and a good story can help build up a rabidly loyal fan base.
i mean.. fuckin adventure time built up a really cool storyline in like… 6-7 eleven minute episodes. its all about precision, dawg
Webcomic Syndrome, i dig that. Someone funna havta tell that term to the guys over at Snafu. Been waiting 4 years for another page of Ever After.
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. It was a show with a lot of promise that was pretty much crippled by some fairly inexplicable decisions regarding the timeskip.
I think the Time skip was fairly smart. It opened up the doors for that video game. Cartoons survive by the marketing done outside of the storyboard. Mechandising is one of the most important part of cartoons (to the corporations anyways). Without Toys,T-shirts, and this upcoming Video Game Were smart moves froma buisness standpoint. Unfortanately i aint work out how it was planned. Plus Timeskips arnt the worst thing in the world. writers use them all the time and it enriches the story, by making it exciting all over again. Use the 2 year till the new world as an example considering this is a site devoted to one piece.
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My Main problem was how A Apokoliptian Conflict was set up in the first season with Desaad and Intergang.
And how we saw Intergang agian in season two trying to stir up trouble, it was made obvious that they wernt working alongside the Light both times. Darkseid could make a very good main villain for season 3.Another Timeskip:
Picture a world completely dominated. All of earths mighteist heroes (villians too) domainated and imprisoned by the mighty armys of Apokolips. Only one team of renegade fighters left around to resist the tyrant Darkseids Rule. YOUNG JUSTICE. The first episode shows us the team sorely defeated leaving only a few members left Impulse, Supermboy, Blue Beetle, Red Robin, Static, Robin(Damian Wayne), Red Hood, Arsenal and Red Arrow. The focus of the pilot is for Them to break out there recently captured leader Nightwing,and other teammates before there transfered to a more secure location. We dont learn how the world ende up this way till later in the series, telling a bit of the story in every episode much like in ARROW. -
@Kid:
Another Timeskip:
Picture a world completely dominated. All of earths mighteist heroes (villians too) domainated and imprisoned by the mighty armys of Apokolips. Only one team of renegade fighters left around to resist the tyrant Darkseids Rule. YOUNG JUSTICE. The first episode shows us the team sorely defeated leaving only a few members left Impulse, Supermboy, Blue Beetle, Red Robin, Static, Robin(Damian Wayne), Red Hood, Arsenal and Red Arrow. The focus of the pilot is for Them to break out there recently captured leader Nightwing,and other teammates before there transfered to a more secure location. We dont learn how the world ende up this way till later in the series, telling a bit of the story in every episode much like in ARROW.now all I can think about is Superboy with a perm…
that would make a fantastic show...
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! Well, seems like I was wrong about no one noticing the fleet…too bad the league wasn't involved in any of the process of calling the Reach out. I was also wrong about Blue Beetle not taking "all" of the credit.
! If nothing else, why not have a League member talk about how they were there defending/fighting the War World instead of just letting the Reach say whatever they want?
! Also, Dick move to kick Arsenal off the team. Does the Young Justice team just not deal with emotional issues or inner demons correctly?
! Wonder if the new team are supposed to represent the Young Justice version of the Outlaws. But whatever. Feel like I'm putting too much thought into this show anyways since there's only 3 episodes left. -
Did you watch the show live, Gizmo, or online? If the latter, do you have a link?
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Sorry watched it live. But a good online version will probably be up soon (couldn't find one).
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Oh well, I guess I'll wait until WCO puts it up. Thanks…
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I got up early and watched both Ben 10 and Young Justice this morning.
I really liked the episodes up to about;
! Nightwing booted Arsenal out. Then things just kind of sped out of control and really quickly. No time for the characters to think about what their doing. Just things happened. Not saying that these weren't the decisions that the character would've mad, but there not moments for the character literally think. The last act happen so quickly that it could've just had a check list of plot points, and it would've been just as good.
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Nightwing specificaly said that this wasn't the first time, the other 2 missions that he was in also went south because he wanted to blow up something.
Opening the hatch only managed to get rid of the sphere and distract everyone, it was a reckless thing to do.
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My issue wasn't the actual actions, but the pace it in which it happened.