I bet you'd pick it up a lot faster if you tried watching raws XD
Oh man I wouldn't understand a word lol.. i might actually try that
I bet you'd pick it up a lot faster if you tried watching raws XD
Oh man I wouldn't understand a word lol.. i might actually try that
Trying with episodes you've already seen might help you not feel so lost as well.
Yea probably, im gonna try that
Actually, after watching Anime, Japanese dramas and movies for a few years, i think i have picked up the most used phrases but like i said, it took several years of that (not that i particularly aimed for it).
@DarthAsthma: If you are interested in watching dramas, even if it is only because of the fact that you are currently learning Japanese, then you can use this site for Japanese subtitles http://d-addicts.com/forum/subtitles.php#Japanese .
Although I'm not particular into dramas I guess it beats wrapping my head around some of the stuff I'm watching or watching japanese idols fail miserably at any kind of academic trivia.
But yeah that's pretty fantastic but to be honest I'm a bit lost at what I should watch. The list is huge well no choice but to dive into it.
Thanks!
I can give you a few recommendations, mostly crime dramas (the Japanese are really good at it)
I can give you a few recommendations, mostly crime dramas (the Japanese are really good at it)
Oh sure :) when I think about it I do watch castle (which I guess counts as crime drama). I think what I meant is that I don't like the sappy ones.
! http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopic_92754.htm
http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopic_97214.htm
http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopic_94729.htm
http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopic_120751.htm
http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopic_89678.htm
http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopic_94844.htm
http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopic_113770.htm
http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopic_89362.htm
http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopic_89362.htm
http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopic_87319.htm
http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopic_89284.htm
http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopic_114837.htm
http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopic_91810.htm
http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopic_89551.htm
http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopic_94982.htm
http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopic_104187.htm
These are pretty much all recommendable, the quality is pretty similar but if i had to pick a few, i would choose Keizoku2 Spec and Strawberry Night. Don´t forget though that these are only the subtitles, you still have to download the actual drama which you can do here http://doramax264.com/ or here http://www.dramadownload.net/japanese-drama/ .
I've never watched Drama in my life lol.
honto ni. you picked up nothing? I've picked up random words from anime. Tamago from Dragon Half. Kaizoku from One Piece. Reinkinjitsu from FMA. I'm sure you've picked up some words and you just don't realize it.
honto ni. you picked up nothing? I've picked up random words from anime. Tamago from Dragon Half. Kaizoku from One Piece. Reinkinjitsu from FMA. I'm sure you've picked up some words and you just don't realize it.
I wouldn't say that picking up a few isolated words over the years constitutes learning the language in any way. If you start getting whole phrases, and maybe even (informally) realizing grammar and speech patterns, that's a closer step. Of course if you put in no conscious effort then it's not likely to ever be useful, although if you do ever formally study the language it could give you a surprisingly accurate radar of what "sounds right."
Also it's "renkinjutsu."
lol well i guess I didn't pick it up quite right. I'm just surprised he didn't pick up any words. I'm sure he has and just doesn't realize it.
I am having some issues with the pronunciation of two names from One Piece.
Enel and Beli
I always get confused when it comes to Japan not using the letter R or the letter L.
So here is my concern: Is Beli pronounced belly or Berry? Is Enel pronounced Enel or Eneru?
The answer is yes.
XD ya. pretty much what gliblord said.
look up japanese pronunciation for L and R.
@CCC:
Yes, they absolutely should. Plenty of magazine/book stores. Just tell him to ask the clerks for Shonen Jump.
My husband came home with a copy of the latest volume of Naruto XD LOL. Oh man, I wish I thought about instructing him about finding a copy of Jump before he left.
I think right now I'm too stupid to figure out the difference between 犠牲者 and 被害者 if there is any, any help on that?
I've read both http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp entries but I'm not sure I quite understand the 被害者 entry to discern if there is a difference.
Meh, it's probably going to be something very obvious that I missed… here
From what I understand, higaisya would be a victim of a natural disaster, a car accident, financial damages, etc.
Whereas giseisya is a victim of ancient cult sacrifice to the gods; someone/something killed for a purpose.
Naturally, higaisya is the one used much more often in daily conversation.
I know HIGAISHA from Phoenix Wright!
I see, I've considered just to go by the meanings of 被害 and 犠牲 since 者 just indicates something as a person/people. The thing that threw me off was the sacrifice thing because that didn't quite fit in the context of when I read it but it indicating someone being killed for a purpose that fits a lot better.
So thanks, CCC!
It's just really confusing reading words that seem to mean the same thing but knowing they don't actually quite do since the author seemingly made a point about writing them differently.
Things like 楽天的で楽観的.
Whoa… that seems like a pretty subtle one. I've never actually used either of those words before, but it would appear that rakutenteki is more... carefree, head-in-the-clouds, hakuna matata, while rakkanteki is a slightly more grounded version of optimism. Like... hope for the future. Belief that things will turn out alright in the end.
I see, I've considered just to go by the meanings of 被害 and 犠牲 since 者 just indicates something as a person/people. The thing that threw me off was the sacrifice thing because that didn't quite fit in the context of when I read it but it indicating someone being killed for a purpose that fits a lot better.
So thanks, CCC!
It's just really confusing reading words that seem to mean the same thing but knowing they don't actually quite do since the author seemingly made a point about writing them differently.
Things like 楽天的で楽観的.
First of all, 犠牲者 goes way beyond any sort of actual ritualistic sacrifice or even intentional killings. I don't think there's even much connection and in a lot of situations it can be used interchangeably with 被害者. If anything I would say the difference in emphasis is that "giseisha" is more empathetic, explicitly considering them innocent/unjust human losses. Higaisha is just kind of a generic term for "victim" and doesn't necessarily carry that some connotation.
But my dictionary gives plenty of natural disaster and accident examples using both. Some examples:
・その鉄道事故で多くの犠牲者がでた。
・震災の犠牲者の霊
I also get the impression that "giseisha" is mostly used in more severe cases. For example you'd say 盗難の被害者 and not 盗難の犠牲者.
Edit: Looked it up in the Japanese dictionary, which confirms this and puts it concisely:
犠牲者 - 戦争や災害などで死んだり、大きな被害を受けたりした人。
As for your latest post of 楽天的 and 楽観的, there is a lot of subtlety just like any language tends to have lots of words with ALMOST the same meaning but different implication. I really wouldn't be able to point to sentences using both and say whether one was more appropriate than the other – either there isn't a real one, or I'm not fluent enough. I mean even my dictionaries point to each other in the definitions.
Looking at my Super Daijirin, here are the two entries for "rakuten" and "rakkan":
楽天 - 人生に対して明るい見通しや考え方をもつこと。
楽観 - 物事をすべてよいように考えること。将来の成り行きについて明るい見通しをもつこと。
If anything this would indicate that "rakuten(-teki)" is a general optimism and positive outlook on life, while "rakkan(-teki)" is being optimistic about all things, and viewing them in a positive light, with positive hopes for the future.
犠牲者 - 戦争や災害などで死んだり、大きな被害を受けたりした人。
Huh. Weird. So it seems to be more about the degree of loss. One thing that definitely threw me off was that in all the talk about the 3/11 East Japan Earthquake/Tsunami Disaster (which still goes on quite regularly), I've never met a person who referred to victims as 犠牲者. Only 被害者.
Funny thing- I just got back from finally seeing the latest James Bond, and at one point there was a line about victims in a bombing; the Japanese subtitles used 犠牲者.
Wow thanks, again just want to show some appreciation.
I definitely feel now that putting money down for one of the big japanese dictionaries is something I should aim for.
I still want to get more comfortable with japanese to japanese dictionaries though.
Wow thanks, again just want to show some appreciation.
I definitely feel now that putting money down for one of the big japanese dictionaries is something I should aim for.
I still want to get more comfortable with japanese to japanese dictionaries though.
No problem. And a good electronic dictionary will go a long way (that's what I used to look this stuff up). A good one will have multiple dictionaries of all types (English-Japanese, Japanese-English, Japanese-Japanese, kanji, thesaurus, etc) and will even let you highlight words and jump to their definition or cross-reference between dictionaries. I have a Canon Wordtank (G70 I think but I'm at work so I forget) which I got many years ago and it's fantastic; I don't know if there's something better on the scene these days.
Hi guys!
Could someone please explain what Moe means?
Hi guys!
Could someone please explain what Moe means?
What exactly does the "na" particle mean?
I know after verbs it makes a negative (like "TABERU NA!" would mean "Don't eat that!"), but I'm confused about being used in between two words (I've seen it in quite a few manga titles, like "Pajama na Kanojo" for example).
What exactly does the "na" particle mean?
Along with the use you mentioned, it's used along with a large number of nominal adjectives.
Many adjectives end in "ーい" or "ーしい" and are conjugated (ーくない、ーかった、ーくなかった) but "na" adjectives are not conjugated. They just get that "na" between them and the noun, and the past tense is formed with だった (and the negative with じゃない・じゃなかった).
A good example is 便利. Alone, it means something like "convenience," but to use it as an adjective (convenient), you just stick that na right after it.
Your example is an interesting one. They're apparently using pajama like an adjective, so it gets a na. A lot of the time though, a situation like that would also be just fine with "no," which is used to connect multiple nouns (as a descriptive function; not the possessive).
Another use of na is at the end of sentences, introspectively used to express wonder/pondering to oneself (compare with "ne," which does the same thing, but with the query/reminder directed at whoever you're talking to). They also say that na can be more masculine, but I don't know anything about that ;P
"今日の天気はいいですね" = The weather is nice today, isn't it? (addressing someone else)
"今夜飲めばいいな" = Sure would be nice if I could drink tonight. (basically addressing self)
There's not much difference between na and ne, and can be used interchangeably. "na" can be used to express to another.
One major difference though is, while "ne" is unisex, "na" is more masculine.
For example, there's pretty much no difference between "そうだな" and "そうだね"
"今夜飲めばいいな" = Sure would be nice if I could drink tonight. (basically addressing self)
You're missing the "could" portion, it doesn't sound normal and the meaning would be "it'd be good if I drink tonight".
"今夜飲めれば(飲めたら)いいな" would be the correct line here.
It still sounds a bit odd though. I guess because it's short, nondescript, and generally not something you say to yourself.
I'd probably say "今夜一杯やれたらいいなあ" or "今夜飲みに行けたらいいな (assuming going to a bar)" in such situation.
EDIT: GOD this forum returns 504 like half the time I'm trying to post or edit. Server issues are everyday now.
"今日の天気はいいですね" = The weather is nice today, isn't it? (addressing someone else)
The questioning/nudging aspect of "ne" is so faint, it's practically non-existent.
This statement is usually more of just a statement.
If you want a clear question form at the end (isn't it?) faintly asking for an acknowledgement,
"今日の天気はいいですよね" or more naturally "今日はいい天気ですよね".
Grammatically you can put 天気 first, but it doesn't sound natural and rather sounds foreign and awkward.
The latter is the more natural nuance.
The time you would put 天気 first would be if you're making a comparison to a previous statement.
For example
Person A: "昨日は酷い豪雨でしたよね" (Yesterday's heavy rain was terrible)
Person B: "ええ、でも今日の天気はいいですね" (Yeah, but the weather today is looking fine)
For example, there's pretty much no difference between "そうだな" and "そうだね"
Of course I'll take your word, but my professor drilled it into us that ne was for addressing others while na was introspective. She was a real stickler for the details, though.
Thanks for the 飲めれば correction ^_^
@CCC:
Of course I'll take your word, but my professor drilled it into us that ne was for addressing others while na was introspective. She was a real stickler for the details, though.
Thanks for the 飲めれば correction ^_^
I added more to the previous statement, the server was returning 504s every time I tried to update.
Anyways, the problem with grammar teachers are, they completely overlook the actual usage and nuances.
Grammatically she's right. But in actual use? That characterization is hardly used or important.
And there I went every day waging fierce battles in mind to make sure that I didn't utter a na when it should have been a ne, lest I incur the relentless mocking from my awful coworkers. Oh well. From now on it's na's all the way.
Be careful though, if you put "na" at the end of a formal speech such as ~desu, you will sound like an aristocrat.
"dana", sounds casual and normal. But "desuna" sound like a noble with a monocle and a stash.
However, "desune" is perfectly acceptable and normal.
Pretty much everyone (male) will use both -na and -ne depending on the sentence.
Yeah I know, Japanese is hell.
Nah, desu na naturally sounds too weird for me to ever use. Barely even use distal at all with people I've met more than once.
And I'd sooner die before getting hired at a Japanese company, where keigo actually matters.
…Really hope I won't be eating those words a few years from now T_T
I added more to the previous statement, the server was returning 504s every time I tried to update.
Anyways, the problem with grammar teachers are, they completely overlook the actual usage and nuances.
Grammatically she's right. But in actual use? That characterization is hardly used or important.
At the same time it's important to keep the distinction clear of what's practical/common use and what's grammatically correct / what gets used in writing. For example you don't want to forget that 飲めれば is technically wrong. The proper conjugation is 飲められば.
I am a guy who has learned to read and write Japanese kana, knows how to use particles, has a basic understanding of sentence structure, and can at the very least understand kanji even if I can't read it (I'm Chinese).
But my vocabulary is rather horrible.
So currently, I am asking if there is a site out there that can teach me basic Japanese vocabulary. Maybe something that starts off at kindergarten level?
My other weakness is verb conjugations but I'd like to actually know some verbs before I tackle that problem.
@Bond:
I am a guy who has learned to read and write Japanese kana, knows how to use particles, has a basic understanding of sentence structure, and can at the very least understand kanji even if I can't read it (I'm Chinese).
But my vocabulary is rather horrible.
So currently, I am asking if there is a site out there that can teach me basic Japanese vocabulary. Maybe something that starts off at kindergarten level?
My other weakness is verb conjugations but I'd like to actually know some verbs before I tackle that problem.
I've used this site with at least a bit of success: http://www.renshuu.org/index.php?page=main/landing
The grammar section is kind of crappy (they try to make you pay for most of the lessons), but it's great for vocabulary and kanji (all free). If you're really looking to start with super basic vocab, go to Vocabulary Quizzing->JLPT->N5, then select the "lessons" you want (or select all), and question type (Kanji/kana/English -> Kanji/kana/English).
Many thanks, CCC. That site does seem to help a lot.
But now I wonder how I should tackle the problem of verb conjugation, since I do not fully understand verb forms. So if a verb is conditional or volitional or whatever have you, I don't know what that actually means. So in this situation, what would be the best way to learn how to use verbs.
I want Aohige is my professor, seriously
My speaking must sound alien because it's not steeped enough in the practical
I don't undestand this expression 水戸路 (mitoji is the pronounce in the furigana)
水戸: mito, is a japanese town
路: means route/ road and is a suffix
Now it means that it is the road to mito, or "the mito road" meaning that the name of the road is mito?
It's very likely a name of some sort as for the exact meaning more context is needed could be referring to the town you mentioned or it could be taken just as a thing with the same name.
No, the manga it's blade of the immortal (mugen no juunin) and there's a group of people traveling on this road, the only thing is that I can't choose the right interpretation between mito road and road to mito.
I mean the manga is translated in english and they translated it as mito road, but I wanted to be sure.
Now I may be wrong but I don't think the meaning changes either way? One is more of an explanation and the other more like a name but in essence both are descriptive of the same thing. Now sure if you really want to be super accurate "road to mito" means road leading to mito whereas "mito road" is more this road is associated with mito but I feel that's a rather moot distinction.
At that point choosing one over the other is more dependant on style than one being more accurate than the other.
Now I don't now that manga but I'm just going to assume it's about samurai or something like that. So I don't know road to mito might be a valid and maybe better stilistic choice but I don't see how mito road is necessarily wrong either.
Now if there exist a valid differentiation between the two, I'm sorry.
At the same time it's important to keep the distinction clear of what's practical/common use and what's grammatically correct / what gets used in writing. For example you don't want to forget that 飲めれば is technically wrong. The proper conjugation is 飲められば.
The れ shortening is very common, it's not a grammatically correct verb.
It is however, extremely commonly used, perhaps more so than the correct phrase. Lol.
However, 飲められば sounds odd as hell. Pretty sure correct term is 飲められれば (double れ)
I've never heard 飲められば in my life. Or 食べられば.
This is because れば is added to 飲められ, making the word a question of possibility.
Oddly enough, the 「ら」抜き shortening also applies to the extra れ, making the conversational slang even shorter.
(If I had to fathom a reason, it's probably because the entire point of shortening to 飲めれば・食べれば is because ~られれば is simply too fucking long. )
The れ shortening is very common, it's not a grammatically correct verb.
It is however, extremely commonly used, perhaps more so than the correct phrase. Lol.However, 飲められば sounds odd as hell. Pretty sure correct term is 飲められれば (double れ)
I've never heard 飲められば in my life. Or 食べられば.
This is because れば is added to 飲められ, making the word a question of possibility.
Oddly enough, the 「ら」抜き shortening also applies to the extra れ, making the conversational slang even shorter.
(If I had to fathom a reason, it's probably because the entire point of shortening to 飲めれば・食べれば is because ~られれば is simply too fucking long. )
I know it's the common way, hence saying it's good to know the actual "technically" correct way.
Edit: I think we both just totally overcomplicated that though. For some reason I thought some 「ら」抜き was going on, but it isn't. 飲められる being shortened to 飲めれる would indeed be this case, however the ば-form on so-called る-verbs simply consists of taking off the る and adding れば. There's no passive conjugation going on here because 飲める already means "able to drink." So 飲めれば is perfectly grammatically accurate, as is 食べれば. What is 「ら」抜き is going from 食べる to 食べれる instead of 食べられる. Now you have the technically incorrect verb 食べれる meaning "able to eat." Now if you take THAT and put it into ば-form, then you get the double れ situation you mentioned of 食べれれば. If in this situation we remove a れ then we have used incorrect grammar in two different ways. But that's slightly confusing, isn't it? Then "if you eat" and "if you could eat" look the same.
No, the manga it's blade of the immortal (mugen no juunin) and there's a group of people traveling on this road, the only thing is that I can't choose the right interpretation between mito road and road to mito.
I mean the manga is translated in english and they translated it as mito road, but I wanted to be sure.
It's kinda both, as far as I know. Roads are/were commonly named after a major city along that road.
I know it's the common way, hence saying it's good to know the actual "technically" correct way.
Edit: I think we both just totally overcomplicated that though. For some reason I thought some 「ら」抜き was going on, but it isn't. 飲められる being shortened to 飲めれる would indeed be this case, however the ば-form on so-called る-verbs simply consists of taking off the る and adding れば. There's no passive conjugation going on here because 飲める already means "able to drink." So 飲めれば is perfectly grammatically accurate, as is 食べれば. What is 「ら」抜き is going from 食べる to 食べれる instead of 食べられる. Now you have the technically incorrect verb 食べれる meaning "able to eat." Now if you take THAT and put it into ば-form, then you get the double れ situation you mentioned of 食べれれば. If in this situation we remove a れ then we have used incorrect grammar in two different ways. But that's slightly confusing, isn't it? Then "if you eat" and "if you could eat" look the same.
My point was, the phrase 飲められば you mentioned is actually incorrect. If you're gonna use ら, it will be double れ.
In fact, the problem is a lot more fundamental. With 飲む, for it to be passive it's gotta be 飲まれる and not 飲められる. By putting a め in there, it's inheritently characterizing it as ~can ~cannot, instead of ~if did. This makes it slightly different than 食べる, which is a lot more simple and interchangable.
How do I say to my annoying colleagues, "If I could drink, I would, but I can't. Have fun at that 飲み会 without me!"
Because it's a line I plan on using for the next 7 months. Asahi beer, subpar sushi, and bad company is no longer worth $60 every time.
My point was, the phrase 飲められば you mentioned is actually incorrect. If you're gonna use ら, it will be double れ.
In fact, the problem is a lot more fundamental. With 飲む, for it to be passive it's gotta be 飲まれる and not 飲められる. By putting a め in there, it's inheritently characterizing it as ~can ~cannot, instead of ~if did. This makes it slightly different than 食べる, which is a lot more simple and interchangable.
Well you did say stuff like "shortening to 飲めれば" and I'm saying it's not being shortened at all; that is in fact the full and correct conjugation.
But yes you're right, because there's no「ら」抜き going on which is what originally confused me. By the way when I said passive I really meant the conditional "able to" conjugation, which just happens to coincide with the passive conjugation of る-type verbs. But as I pointed out in my last post, 飲める already conveys that so there's no sense in using it. Because the base verb here is 飲む. 食べる is already a る-type verb which is why it's different. If the verb were 食る(たぶ)instead, then it would behave the same as 飲む of course.
@CCC:
How do I say to my annoying colleagues, "If I could drink, I would, but I can't. Have fun at that 飲み会 without me!"
Because it's a line I plan on using for the next 7 months. Asahi beer, subpar sushi, and bad company is no longer worth $60 every time.
If you want to tell them you're physically not able to drink alcohol, you can just say you're 下戸
俺は下戸だから一緒に飲みにいけないけど
飲み会楽しんできてね
or if they already know you can drink (lol) 飲みたいけど飲めないから俺抜きで飲み会楽しんでこいよ
although I'm sure they'll ask you WHY. :P