subjective no jutsu!
@Darth:
This is going to be a really big post…
I guess the phrase "really big" is also subjective. lol
I did watch, and read, the entire series. I reread and rewatch marine parts regulary, because they are my most favorite faction in One Piece. While I know what you are trying to say, I will point out that you are still assuming a lot of things.
I find most of the marines to be incredibly boring. eg the poster boy is Smoker; who is just about as fun as a bowl of grey peas. The real fun for me revolves around the higher ranking members that pull the strings. Most of the weaker marines are essentially just the puppets, with little will or ambition of their own. This is why Aokiji, Garp, and possibly smoker questioning the powers that be..is SO great.
They are all men of honor/morality too. In fact its hard to find a boring one that isn't…..and this goes back to Saul! who had next to no page space/time in this series, yet had a blast from start to finish.
What do you mean by fairness, and morality? And if you point out to the dictionary again, then I will point out to at least three more that will state completly different definitions. I ask what do you mean by it.
Why are you trying to act ignorant of the basic premise behind the meaning here? Its pretty much the weakest card you could play here. You totally ignore the examples I've given and just use the "EVERBEETINSSUBJERKTERV" card whenever its too hard to counter my argument.
All of the above examples can be indeed considered moral, from certain point of view.
Now let me show you why this kind of thinking is wrong.
! The intent behind the actions dictate whether or not it was justifiable (in the name of justice).
Good, Evil, Morality, all of it is subjective, and, unfortanetly, doesn't have clear definitions. And if you will argue Moral Absolutism, you are welcome to try. That theory has more holes in it than Whitebeard at the end of the war.
Don't worry Darth, this logics bulletproof.
1. Tricking Squard into attacking Whitebeard? Move that consisted of a lie and save many marine lives in the process. Cause and effect; you have weighted both the lie, and the effect of it, and found Akainu lack of morality in using a lie to save lives.
He was only focusing on trying to kill Whitebeard, and not save lives. He killed marines shortly after this conversation too. Plus instead of just attacking Whitebeard himself, he hedged all of his bets on one person;that essentially led to Whitebeard destroying the frozen passage and proving, if not inspiring the new world pirates to fight, and fight harder. Squard may have attacked him, but Whitebeard used that to his advantage in the end.
2. Killing deserters that abandoned their post in the face of a attack, leaving their comrades to their own fate. Funny how much the sense can change with a sentence, isn't it? Also, A) One marine, not marines. B) Punishment for deserting is death. It is again example of him following the law, and it's most certainly not unmoral to kill deserters.
Akainu: Hmmm well look here…there's a few guys in the middle of a hellish war that are scared. Better melt them to death in the most painful and horrific way possible.
At most you could have used an argument that he should arrest him, and then properly judge and sentence him, but considering that was during the battle, I do not believe it was possible. Neither was letting him go.
They received a harsher sentence than Crocodile; who was trying to overthrow and destroy a country, in the hopes of reviving an ancient weapon, that could potentially destroy the world! XD
3. Consequentionalism. Aokiji letting one 8 year old girl escape caused many suffering, death, destruction of one island, and civil war on another. Disregarding protagonist centered morality of One Piece, what would've happened if there was another scholar on board? And no, argument that we, from the positions of all knowing viewers know that there was not changes nothing, because character doesn't know. While I'm not arguing that the act was good in and of itself, it was most certainly justified.
His intent was to let an innocent child live, instead of being burnt to death via the bustercall. Im sure he had some really evil intentions with that one. heh Plus you are only encapsulating the few negative points, while overlooking all of the good she has done since, and is yet to do in the series.
4. Already said that many times: Mutiny. If Coby was concerned with the dying in the war, he should have ralied the lighter wounded people and marines that simply stood around doing nothing, cause they are always around, and take care of the wounded, not demand that they just stop fighting alltogether. That was an act of mutiny, and if you were an officer of current american army dealing with something like that, you would have been punished by inaction, if you didn't try to stop it.
Not one other high ranking marine had an issue with this act; otherwise Coby would have been jailed shortly after. Also the war was simply a byproduct of trying to prevent Ace from being executed. When he died the battle lost most of its meaning, and ended up with the marines almost turning into the terrible image/people that they were fighting to destroy in the first place. Hundreds, or maybe even thousands of marines would have died. Because of his actions…the war and their fate was swayed. They will go on to fight people that are much worse than the Whitebeard pirates. (who on the most part have done their best to protect people from the true evils of the world. Eg fishman islands former protector)
Yes. So? Are you saying that it would more moral to let the pirates go free? Or are you of opinion that Shichibukai should be hunted down? Because I assure you, that is what is going to happen the moment they are not necessery anymore.
Can you really group people like Jinbei, Boa and Mihawk in with Moria, Dofla and Croc. The moral obligation would be different.
Not exactly seeing how anything that Akainu does is any different…
They might use them, but both havent a different view.
For example: Sengoku knew that some were honarable pirates, while others were monsters, and would know who to send, depending on what situation required them. Akainu however, lumos them all in the same category of 'a pirates a pirate', and so would be reckless with his choice.
Using strong words again, I see. And the most hillarious thing is that both Buster Calls seen in the series have been called by Sengoku, and Aokiji, people you as moraly superior to Akainu. Interesting.
Actually they were ordered by Spandine, and Spandam (his son). One was accidentally, while the other was partially tied to the Gorosei and the conversation they had with Clover.
You also overlooked the fact that Aokiji was disgusted at seeing the bustercall at Ohara. :D
I will point you out to the above examples.
The spindoctor has left the building.
Just pointing out, Doberman opposed Shanks. When Sengoku actually gave the order, he followed without question.
He had no other choice. But the point remained he didn't agree with it. And that his definition of absolute justice was the main factor in that.
Well, I think this is all for now. Maybe I will come up with something later.
!
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Nolus:
It wasn't Doberman who shot one of his men, it was Onigumo. Doberman is kind of the lesser evil of the two, even if he had two or three moments of assness. Onigumo is all ass.
Ugh thanks, I always get those two mixed up. Why couldn't Oda have used Vice Admiral strawberry or something lol. Thanks Nolus