I rest my case having presented my evidence.
Interpretation is not evidence, i highly suggest you taking up logic, i proved in my post above how your views are pretty shaky, let alone a certainty.
Chapter 690: S.A.D
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If Ace has amazing basic fighting power and isn't someone who concentrates too much on his Logia, and he still got that badly hurt by Blackbeard's punches, then the only logical conclusion is that Blackbeard's punches are just that strong. It doesn't matter how he fought Jimbei. They fought for five days. We see that Ace is badly injured. It is obvious that he took tons of damage from Jimbei. We have seen that Jimbei is not too far in power from Luffy. If Ace could take attacks from Jimbei for five days straight, it is the logical conclusion that he can take a dozen punches from Luffy as well.
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Interpretation is not evidence, i highly suggest you taking up logic, i proved in my post above how your views are pretty shaky, let alone a certainty.
And I showed you with logic that Kinemon is Paramecia and Bonney won't join, but you pretended not to understand.
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Law saved Smoker, so in order to repay the debt, Smoker had to save Law somehow. That's how it worked. Smoker's motivation to defeat Vergo didn't matter at all. He just had to do something that would prevent Law from being killed, whether it happened collaterally or not.
So stop bringing this argument to justify Smoker's defeat.
If you were right, Smoker would have said he was in peace with Law the moment he arrived into the room to fight Vergo…And Smokey didn't feel that way since he decided to fight for Law's heart instead of saying:" We are in peace now, Law. Now I will kick Vergo's ass!!".
But well, this disscusion is in my opinion useless: We both have our own interpretation of that scene, and we are not going to convince each other about who is right. It will be better to forget about this.
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If Ace has amazing basic fighting power and isn't someone who concentrates too much on his Logia, and he still got that badly hurt by Blackbeard's punches, then the only logical conclusion is that Blackbeard's punches are just that strong. It doesn't matter how he fought Jimbei. They fought for five days. We see that Ace is badly injured. It is obvious that he took tons of damage from Jimbei. We have seen that Jimbei is not too far in power from Luffy. If Ace could take attacks from Jimbei for five days straight, it is the logical conclusion that he can take a dozen punches from Luffy as well.
You do realize that we only saw Ace using fire base techniques in the fight against Blackbeard.
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So, merely two days till the chapter is out. Any predictions?
Apart from Luffy completely destroying Caesar, of course.
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SO, merely two days till the chapter is out. Any predictions?
Apart from Luffy completely destroying Caesar, of course.
The granny completely destroying Caribou.
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So, merely two days till the chapter is out. Any predictions?
Apart from Luffy completely destroying Caesar, of course.
Sabo destroying everyone. :ninja:
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And I showed you with logic that Kinemon is Paramecia and Bonney won't join, but you pretended not to understand.
No because those two were not stated in the manga, again logic dictates that for a statement or claim to be valid, you have to present fool proof evidence which you did not do for both cases. If you do not understand the difference, i have to admit that i do not have the motivation to help you on this.
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No because those two were not stated in the manga, again logic dictates that for a statement or claim to be valid, you have to present fool proof evidence which you did not do for both cases. If you do not understand the difference, i have to admit that i do not have the motivation to help you on this.
I showed proof in both cases and completely destroyed your arguments. Then you said something like "bla-bla, we'll see" and escaped like a hamster.
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All right, i would suggest for you to go read the argument again because what you claim right now would require evidence depicted in the manga which is obviously non-existent. First, what you claim "Kinemon has eaten a Paramecia" would require for you to provide solid evidence which did not happen. You tried to take up Marco´s and Sengoku´s example and from that tried to prove Kinemon being a Paramecia which in both cases did not succeed (with Marco´s intangibility and Sengoku actually being a mythical creature), you can hardly find fault in me for avoiding an argument in which my opposite fails to recognize valid points, there is something called "valuing your free time". Furthermore, in my theory of Bonney possibly joining, i gave a list of circumstances which would make a joining of Bonney possible (and those were valid points) but i never claimed that she would indeed join because it is something that lies in the future, nothing in her case can be proven or disproved because it is just a theory. That is why posters who actually have a bit of sense suggested that we should keep the Bonney discussion for the future which i agreed to.
Now coming back to the initial discussion, namely what Coruscaiton claimed. His case is actually pretty similar to yours since you both claimed something that is not clearly depicted in the manga but rather stems from your interpretation of what is actually depicted. You have to understand that if you claim something, you have the duty to actually prove it which in both cases did not happen unlike a theory for example (well, unless it is science of course). Now, if you want to answer to this, you are welcome to do it but i doubt the purpose to have a discussion with someone whose posts usually come down to sarcastic remarks about others, Sabo references and Ninja smilies. -
The one who should read the argument again is you.
Kinemon is Paramecia, because he is not Zoan or Logia.
And the possibility of Bonney joining is even smaller than Perona, or Margaret, or most female characters who were debated. Of course it's theortically possible, but so is for example Kuro joining the crew or Don Krieg becoming the Pirate King and noone is seriously discussing that. Why - because it won't happen. It simply won't.
I presented solid evidence, it's your problem that you fail to understand it.
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There is a hole in that statement - without Smoker fighting and defeating Vergo, Law would never get his heart back.
Whether Smoker gives it to him or Law takes it off of Vergo's fallen body makes no difference, it's still thanks to Smoker that he got it back.I don't see how this discussion is still going on. To me it's blatently obvious hoe the vergo fight went down.
Law got overwhelmed by Vergo's superior speed and power and got knocked out.
Smoker shows up and fights Vergo toe to toe.
(All of this was shown on panel)
During the course of the fight Smoker realizes Vergo is stronger than him by at least a bit and begins trying to get Law's heart from Vergo so that it can be 2 vs.1 or worst case scenario if he loses there will still be someone to challenge Vergo.
He begins to spread his smoke out so that he can steal the heart and get it to law undercover and because of this he begins taking more hits.
He is knocked down by Vergo just after Law gets his heart back.
Smoker and Vergo are both weakened from their fight but still battle ready.
Vergo is weakened from fighting smoker, Law wtf pwns Vergo with his Df ability.
THE ENDhttp://w11.zetaboards.com/OnePieceNewWorld/index/
Originally Posted by The Laughing Man
Let's just be honest here: The Watchmen movie was a complete and utter, extremely boring, blue man penis filled abomination.
And I don't even feel this way, it's just a hilarious quote.
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I don't see how this discussion is still going on. To me it's blatently obvious hoe the vergo fight went down.
Law got overwhelmed by Vergo's superior speed and power and got knocked out.
Smoker shows up and fights Vergo toe to toe.
(All of this was shown on panel)
During the course of the fight Smoker realizes Vergo is stronger than him by at least a bit and begins trying to get Law's heart from Vergo so that it can be 2 vs.1 or worst case scenario if he loses there will still be someone to challenge Vergo.
He begins to spread his smoke out so that he can steal the heart and get it to law undercover and because of this he begins taking more hits.
He is knocked down by Vergo just after Law gets his heart back.
Smoker and Vergo are both weakened from their fight but still battle ready.
Vergo is weakened from fighting smoker, Law wtf pwns Vergo with his Df ability.
THE END
Excellent. -
The one who should read the argument again is you.
Kinemon is Paramecia, because he is not Zoan or Logia.
And the possibility of Bonney joining is even smaller than Perona, or Margaret, or most female characters who were debated. Of course it's theortically possible, but so is for example Kuro joining the crew or Don Krieg becoming the Pirate King and noone is seriously discussing that. Why - because it won't happen. It simply won't.
I presented solid evidence, it's your problem that you fail to understand it.
thank you for perfectly proving my point
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thank you for perfectly proving my point
See? You have nothing to say. Just admit that you are wrong (unless you are a hamster).
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Dear flame war enthousiasts. Could you please take your personal quarrels to PM or to some thread like dumb predictions, which nobody truely cares about?
It's pretty boring reading a discussion between 2 people who aren't even really discussing anything but miniscule obsolete unimportant details.You both have different ideas, get over it.
Chapter is great btw and law seems to be monstrously strong. Wonder how he got that strong or if he has someone as a mentor like Luffy. I can't really see how one would get that strong otherwise.
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The one who should read the argument again is you.
Kinemon is Paramecia, because he is not Zoan or Logia.
You can't use this argument when you don't know whether it is true or not. You can't disprove that Kinemon is not Zoan or Logia when there is no proof that he is Paramecia. By this logic, you could say no one in Kaidou's crew has a devil fruit power because we haven't seen anyone with it. It's a flimsy argument with no proof.
Up until now, Kinemon has not been any serious situations that would justify any use of his zoan (or logia) form. Logically, there is a clear lack of evidence to come to any hard conclusion.
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You can't use this argument when you don't know whether it is true or not. By this logic, Whitebeard never had fruit powers - until the moment we saw him use it. You can't disprove that Kinemon is not Zoan or Logia when there is no proof that he is Paramecia.
Up until now, Kinemon has not been any serious situations that would justify any use of his zoan (or logia) form. Logically, there is a clear lack of evidence to come to any hard conclusion as you are suggesting through process of elimination.
So running from a deadly gas or trying to save his son doesn't count as a serious situation?
Paramecia - having superpowers. Zoan - turning into an animal. Logia - turning into a natural element. It is undeniably the first. Stop trying to argue. It is this simple - he showed supernatural powers, ergo he is a Paramecia.
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I have a Deja vu
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Kinemon does not turn into an element, so he is not a Logia, he does not turn into another species, so he is not a Zoan. The only option left is that he is a Paramecia because he has super powers, it's as simple as that, so Strelok wins the argument.
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In his defense, zoan is still plausible, the only time he used his df (unless his foxfire style is part of it) was to poof clothes onto people and we could only see his head, for all we know his legs or torso could have transformed partially. I am in agreement that he is paramecia though, else Oda's really just trying to complicate our lives.
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@Foxy:
Kinemon does not turn into an element, so he is not a Logia, he does not turn into another species, so he is not a Zoan.
Kinemon doesn't use haki because we haven't seen him use Haki too. Would you agree?
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In his defense, zoan is still plausible, the only time he used his df (unless his foxfire style is part of it) was to poof clothes onto people and we could only see his head, for all we know his legs or torso could have transformed partially. I am in agreement that he is paramecia though, else Oda's really just trying to complicate our lives.
His legs were with Luffy and I doubt that someone, who doesn't know what a DF is is capable of partial transformation.
He doesn't use haki because we haven't seen him use Haki too. Would you agree?
Who are you talking about?
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In his defense, zoan is still plausible, the only time he used his df (unless his foxfire style is part of it) was to poof clothes onto people and we could only see his head, for all we know his legs or torso could have transformed partially. I am in agreement that he is paramecia though, else Oda's really just trying to complicate our lives.
But even if it's a mythical zoan, it shouldn't give such specific powers, it should be more rudamentary like Sengoku's shockwaves or Marco's regenerative flames.
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this chapter was epic, it's good to see the arc (hopefully) in it's final chapters.
does anyone know how kinemon's DF works? or any theories concerning it?
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@Foxy:
But even if it's a mythical zoan, it shouldn't give such specific powers, it should be more rudamentary like Sengoku's shockwaves or Marco's regenerative flames.
There is no 'should' or 'shouldn't' when regarding any fruit power we don't know much about. Law 'shouldn't' have cut a Haki-user like Vergo, but it happened.
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this chapter was epic, it's good to see the arc (hopefully) in it's final chapters.
does anyone know how kinemon's gif works? or any theories concerning it?
I can tell you about his jpg. :ninja:
His DF is a Paramecia. I think it has the power of disguise.
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I can tell you about his jpg. :ninja:
His DF is a Paramecia. I think it has the power of disguise.
haha, I have no idea why I typed gif!
disguise? I didn't get that when I saw it but then again it's been a long time since we saw it.
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So, merely two days till the chapter is out. Any predictions?
Apart from Luffy completely destroying Caesar, of course.
I'm guessing we'll see Buffalo and Baby 5 en route or Doflamingo will mention their coming. I'm hoping we can finally leave Punk Hazard in the next 2 or 3 chapters.
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guys.. clearly Kinemom's DF gives him the power to start heated arguments on the internet :ninja:
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There is no 'should' or 'shouldn't' when regarding any fruit power we don't know much about. Law 'shouldn't' have cut a Haki-user like Vergo, but it happened.
Give me an example of when a zoan type has given such unique powers, exactly you can't. Oda won't start breaking the rules of his own manga.
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There is no 'should' or 'shouldn't' when regarding any fruit power we don't know much about. Law 'shouldn't' have cut a Haki-user like Vergo, but it happened.
Well, but we can take an educated guess with how the fruits work till now, and with this in mind Kinemons DF is most likey a paramecia. Also I wonder about the last part, yeah, Haki can counter DF powers but it's not impossible for DF powers to overcome Haki
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@Foxy:
Give me an example of when a zoan type has given such unique powers, exactly you can't. Oda won't start breaking the rules of his own manga.
Marco the Phoenix
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Marco only regenerates himself, and not other people
EDIT: Btw, thinking about it, Logia and Zoan are all pretty selfish fruits, while Paramecia can also benefit others :p
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Marco the Phoenix
I already mentioned that, and there's a big difference between flames and making clothes appear. Even if it's not confirmed, it's blatantly obvious that he's a paramecia.
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@Foxy:
I already mentioned that, and there's a big difference between flames and making clothes appear. Even if it's not confirmed, it's blatantly obvious that he's a paramecia.
you mean HEALING flames… And no it isn't. Both are special abilities of mythical creatures... Hell look at Momonosuke failed Dragon Zoan. He can make just make clouds to fly from nothing.
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you mean HEALING flames… And no it isn't. Both are special abilities of mythical creatures... Hell look at Momonosuke failed Dragon Zoan. He can make just make clouds to fly from nothing.
Fine, then tell me what mythical creature can make clothes appear out of no where.
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I have to agree with the opinion of kinemon having a paramecia DF, even though we haven't seen much of it, it hardly seems like a logia or a zoan DF.
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@Foxy:
Fine, then tell me what mythical creature can make clothes appear out of no where.
Kitsune and Tanuki are using this put a stone/leaf on your head and I úse my little magic
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Kitsune and Tanuki are using this put a stone/leaf on your head and I úse my little magic
But he is Paramecia. The End.
Edit: Both of these are not mythical.
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Kitsune and Tanuki are using this put a stone/leaf on your head and I úse my little magic
People seem to forget that the Tanuki is a real animal and not a legend, and in Japan the Kitsune is an actual fox, not some magical fox, so why would Oda make regular animals mythical zoans. Just admit you're wrong and stop embarrassing yourself.
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My point is that you can't claim without proof.
I can't prove to you what Mythical Zoan fruits can or can't do. No one can, except Oda. That's the point of this.
It is likely that Kinemon is a Paramecia user, but all we know so far is that he can make clothes out of rocks and leaves. That's not much to go on to say what fruit he even has.
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In JP it is was seen as mythical creature… But whatever and this was brougth up by Aohige himself back than after Kinemon used his powers
the legendary Japanese tanuki is known for its transformation powers, and readily employs them when a leaf or stone is placed on its head, at which point the sound effect "doron" occurs
.
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My point is that you can't claim without proof.
I can't prove to you what Mythical Zoan fruits can or can't do. No one can, except Oda. That's the point of this.
It is likely that Kinemon is a Paramecia user, but all we know so far is that he can make clothes out of rocks and leaves. That's not much to go on to say what fruit he even has.
But it's something that is obvious even without confirmation, just like how Dalmation has the Mutt-Mutt Fruit: Dalmatian Model
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Well OK Kitsune and Tanuki aren't used in myths at JP with some strange powers… it a Paramecia and we should all wait for the reveal of it's name and discuss something else
But once again by Aohige for you
the legendary Japanese tanuki is known for its transformation powers, and readily employs them when a leaf or stone is placed on its head, at which point the sound effect "doron" occurs. Samurai man is likely a tanuki zoan.
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@Foxy:
But it's something that is obvious even without confirmation, just like how Dalmation has the Mutt-Mutt Fruit: Dalmatian Model
If it's so obvious, what is the name of his fruit? What are the extents of his powers?
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I want to believe too big guy3ds code friend:0404-6254-1866new "new"3ds code friend:0791-4253-7110 (monster hunter)
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Exactly my point. It's something we have to find out.
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the legendary Japanese tanuki is known for its transformation powers, and readily employs them when a leaf or stone is placed on its head, at which point the sound effect "doron" occurs. Samurai man is likely a tanuki zoan.
interesting…if oda went by this then it would make him a mythical zoan..despite not seeming like it at all.
I just hope his DF is legit, getting clothes out of leaves doesn't seem like it could help him much with battle.
