BB cant be the final villain. Yes BB will probably(unless Oda trolls us 
) be the final villain before Luffy becomes Pirate king but that doesnt mean that the series will be over then. We have seen hints of this so called war that will engulf the entire world after someone finds one piece so the villain after BB will be the final one whoever that might be.
The Final Villain
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Funny that the person who suddenly decides to be insulting and accuse people of "not knowing shit" about One Piece seems to be completely ignoring all the bigger themes and story elements and focusing only on the big fight scenes.
Luffy and Blackbeard are both gunning for One Piece. The big events with the World Government can only come AFTER Luffy is Pirate King. "When the treasure is found"….One Piece is far more than a mountain of gold. It's the key to the great war. Roger left it for his successor. The Pirate Age was created for a purpose. Someone has to "shoulder centuries of history" and Teach is "not the man Roger is waiting for."
His conflict with Luffy is best placed on or just before Raftel - for the title of Pirate King.
The series cannot end when Luffy becomes Pirate King. There are already many scenes that have shown this. BB is the anti-Luffy because he's the one that Luffy will have to fight to become Pirate King - the last obstacle in the New World. The last one Luffy needs to fight to reach One Piece.
Luffy vs. Blackbeard hardly deals with the biggest things going on - the World Government has ruled for 800years and oppress freedom around the world.
As I said before, I don't expect Akainu to be the final battle for Luffy either. It's possible depending on how far Akainu is able to ascend in power, but if he remains at the rank of Fleet Admiral I don't think it's very likely.
The Gorousei or someone in the WG are the most likely.
I don't know why people are saying that if it's someone we haven't seen yet, it's going to be out of left field. The series is probably going to last 15+ more years, so Oda's got plenty of time to introduce someone IF they're meant to be the final opponent. I think the Gorousei have a strong possibility of filling the role, but time will tell.
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Took the words right out of my mouth, Vongola. There is a lot of collective resentment toward Akainu obviously, but his rank is still even not high enough to qualify as "final boss tier". I do think they'll eventually have it out late in the series, but I don't think he'll be the final villain in the series.
In a way, I think it depends on what you define "final" as; The final obstacle before One Piece, or the last true villain left for Luffy. As you said, the series probably won't end abruptly one Luffy becomes the Pirate King. I cast my vote for Blackbeard being the final obstacle before becoming the Pirate King, and then Coby becomes the marine that infamously chases Pirate King Luffy around, bringing the story full circle, and also as a throwback to the days of Garp vs Roger (But I don't think this will be resolved. I think the series will just end with this rivalry in play).
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Davy Jones. After Blackbeard is beaten, he'll rise up from the sea and claim all the Devil Fruits, which will disappear from the world forever.
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In a way, I think it depends on what you define "final" as; The final obstacle before One Piece, or the last true villain left for Luffy. As you said, the series probably won't end abruptly one Luffy becomes the Pirate King. I cast my vote for Blackbeard being the final obstacle before becoming the Pirate King, and then Coby becomes the marine that infamously chases Pirate King Luffy around, bringing the story full circle, and also as a throwback to the days of Garp vs Roger (But I don't think this will be resolved. I think the series will just end with this rivalry in play).
I agree that Coby may be the final adversary, but even then… The Void Century, man, THE. VOID. CENTURY. Once that information is available, the Revolutionaries will want it, and they'll use it against the WG. Dragon vs. Akainu, as foreshadowed by Akainu's comments. Dragon will most likely win. But there has to be a reason why this turn of events is "bad" for Luffy and crew. Perhaps the Revolutionaries are evil? Dragon will be Porky and Pacifista Sabo will be the Masked Man.
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I wonder…does Dragon care for Luffy?
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I agree that Coby may be the final adversary, but even then… The Void Century, man, THE. VOID. CENTURY. Once that information is available, the Revolutionaries will want it, and they'll use it against the WG. Dragon vs. Akainu, as foreshadowed by Akainu's comments. Dragon will most likely win. But there has to be a reason why this turn of events is "bad" for Luffy and crew. Perhaps the Revolutionaries are evil? Dragon will be Porky and Pacifista Sabo will be the Masked Man.
@The:
I wonder…does Dragon care for Luffy?
Haha well, I recall Dragon being very excited at the prospect of finally meeting Luffy. Despite the World Government being a really prominent antagonist, I don't think One Piece is fundamentally anarchistic. Oda seems to go to lengths to show that the presence of the WG is very much needed and does help out tons of people. It's only when you get caught up in the morally grey areas of "absolute justice" does it start to get a little fuzzy as to who is in the right. I don't think in the end, either side will be the clear "victor" but we also don't know anything about the void century, so this is like 100 times more vague than speculation. I really have no fucking clue.
lol I like the idea of Pacifista Sabo showing in some way, shape, or form, if only to flesh out a plot point that has always seemed largely irrelevant to me :\
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Like I said once…I'm calling it now...a hyper-advance Sabo Pacifista--Sabo the Pirate-Killer--will be the final fight of One Piece. And it's goal, is, to extinguish the life of every pirate and revolutionary on the planet--and any who sympathize with them; be it man, woman, or child. It will have every Devil Fruit 'implemented' into it, and will deus ex machina it up.
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@The:
Like I said once…I'm calling it now...a hyper-advance Sabo Pacifista--Sabo the Pirate-Killer--will be the final fight of One Piece. And it's goal, is, to extinguish the life of every pirate and revolutionary on the planet--and any who sympathize with them; be it man, woman, or child. It will have every Devil Fruit 'implemented' into it, and will deus ex machina it up.
No no no, it will have Enel's fruit implemented into it, and it will wipe out the entire crew except Luffy, who withstands the attack thanks to his Gomu Gomu no Badge. Also, Garp will leap in front of one of the lightning bolts, and Ace's ghost will show up to ask Luffy and Sabo to stop fighting.
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I think the Void Century will be incredibly important to both the Revs and Luffy.
One thing people aren't considering is the nature of our protagonist. Dragon cares very much about the state of the world - the Celestial Dragons running rampant and WG exerting it's totalitarian rule. Clearly Roger had some interest in this cause as well.
But let's take a step back - Luffy's seen the Celestial Dragons in action, he's seen corruption in Goa, and he's dealt firsthand with those who support absolute justice. Throughout all of this, Luffy hasn't yet taken up a mantle to fight for the freedom of the world. He wants to be free and protect those he cares about. Luffy certainly has the qualities and making of a hero, but we have to consider what's going to move his character from a good hearted Pirate fighting for those he meets to someone willing to fight for the freedom of the entire world. Right now, it's hard to see this in Luffy's character. Some still say he's not a hero, particularly citing his explanation of his motivations at Fishman Island. That doesn't mean Luffy won't save the world. After all Batman is "not a hero", but a "Watchful guardian." Still, Luffy turned around and did exactly what he said he wouldn't do at FI and saved everyone as a hero. He just left it up to the people of FI to decide if he was a hero or not. But throughout the conflict he was doing what he felt was right. Whether or not Luffy fancies himself a hero, he does the right thing.
But let's look at what the True History could reveal. We see the World Gov is doing lots of horrible things now. It's most likely they came into power in similar fashion. But will learning of the World Government's centuries old wrong doing prompt Luffy to action? He's already seen their current misdeeds and hasn't yet decided they need to be taken down.
I think we should consider that whatever started with the inception of the World Government is not yet finished. I would cite Tequilla Wolf and the pursuit of Pluton as two pieces of evidence to suggest this. Perhaps the Government wants to preserve the balance not to protect the current state of world affairs for the sake of the general population, but so that their more nefarious and sinister goals are not disturbed by global war.
Learning of World Government conspiracy to not only hide history to keep power, but also to threaten the freedom of the world and everyone Luffy holds dear through such sinister planning for even greater totalitarian control of the One Piece world certainly would drive Luffy to action.
We should consider that for whatever reason, Roger created the Great Pirate Era to inspire a successor - he was a dying man after all, unfit to lead a revolution or act against the mighty power of the World Government. Only his true successor can find One Piece - therein lies the key. I don't believe OP itself to be the True History alone. One piece is the key though…we know it's an object and that OP, when discovered will force the entire world into war.
Blackbeard is NOT the man to inherit this treasure from Roger. He didn't inherit Roger's will and thus he won't be the one to discover One Piece.
So now looking at Akainu, as said before he's more a symptom of what's wrong with the World Government, not the cause. There should certainly be a major battle with Akainu, the fiercest proponent of Absolute Justice to date. I think there's a few ways it can go for Akainu though. Keep in mind the World Government's current goal is to preserve balance more than stamp out Piracy. At this point in time, Akainu's ideals don't exactly fall in line with the manifesto of the Gorousei. They're all about keeping the status quo while Akainu's current goal is to disrupt that balance in favor of brutal and total annhialation of piracy. That's one reason I consider Akainu being a villain sooner than the final saga...but am not certain of that.
At this point in time, I'm seeing Doflamingo shaping up to be the next major villain....it allows Luffy to get his feet wet in the New World fighting a big opponent while not yet taking on an Emperor.
A very rough theory about the general timeline of future events to see where I'm coming from....
A rough estimate of the progression of events at this point would be moving on to Wano after Punk Hazard. G5 would fit nicely as an arc now, part of the bigger Doflamingo saga. perhaps another small arc as well...basiclaly i think we're building to a big 60 chapter arc with Dofla as the primary antagonist. The one thing I'd like to point out is that Luffy fighting Dofla now does not eliminate his potential to be used later in the series any more than it has Lucci, Eneru, Crocodile, and Moria all of whom are bound to return sooner or later.
I think this allows enough time to pass from Fishman Island. The Dofla story will intertwine with Big Mom in a way. Kid and Law will be allies in the fight against Big Mom so that Luffy won't fight an Emperor 1 on 1 so early in the new world and will save the impact of such an event for later in the series. Given the way things ended at Fishman Island I believe that the fight with Big mom will go full circle back to FI. We still have Shirley's premonition that Luffy will destroy the island. We saw a sillhouette of Luffy surrounded by a sea of flames...notice that Big Mom's crew burned an island to the ground that didn't pay tribute to her. I have a feeling that her vindictive side will bring the battle to the island itself. We'll deal with the Sun Pirates current situation and Jimbei joining the Straw Hats in this time and ultimately Luffy WILL destroy fishman island intentionally. After all the Fishmen and mermaids want to live on the surface - Luffy will destroy the island, guiding Shirahoshi and Noah to carry them to the surface on the promised day. Joy Boy flashback included.
At this point, some time will have passed in the manga from the first visit to FI...a month or two. At this point, the Fishmen will have moved to the surface. Given the hints in the cover story arc, Reverie should be happening in a month or two. Oda has mentioned this event so many times, I'd imagine that something big will happen there. The beauty of returning to FI after a bit of time has passed is that Reverie will be upon us...the first time the Fishmen will join. I'd imagine there will be some hubbub given that Neptune herself Princess Shirahoshi will be in attendance...and Caribou is privy to this fact. I do think the Straw Hats will crash this event for some unknown purpose at this point in time. This will give us a Vivi reunion and depending on how things go down at Reverie, I could see her sailing with the crew again. If anything the WG does begins to threaten Alabasta's well being in a manner in which sailing with Luffy helps Vivi save her kingdom, she would do so just as she left her country for years in the past. I could see it happening, but it all depends on what happens at Reverie.
As for Akainu, I had a long standing theory that he will be dealt with in some fashion as the villain of his own saga / arc later in the New World or post-Raftel. This is very veeery far from certain... not even something I see as likely to happen. It's just a theory really. As Fleet Admiral I could see Akainu's ambition to wipe out piracy becoming increasingly militant as Luffy, Law, and Kid rise to power....with Shanks, Blackbeard, and Kaido (at this point Big Mom would have lost, though perhaps not loosing all of her influence in one fell swoop) maintaining their strength. There are still more powerful pirates in Crocodile, Moria, Hawkins, Drake, etc. In this way I could see Akainu pushing the marines to dangerous extremes under his leadership....perhaps even too extreme for the WG, very concerned with maintaining balance above all else. This would be the time to bring Aokiji back into the fold and let things play out. This would allow Koby to rise in rank....at this point, I'm really not sure about Smoker's role. I have a theory that many may not agree with at all. The thing is, Smoker is so far from the ideology of a normal Marine and Luffy's is so far from that of a normal pirate...they actually fall into the same middle ground regarding justice. There have beena number of incidents involving the Straw Hats and mraines in which Smoker has seen the Straw Hat pirates act as a force for justice. Contrasting the justice of the SH's against the injustice of the marines, I have always had this feeling, ever since Alabasta, that Smoker could potentially join the crew. I may be 100% wrong on this, so don't hold me to this part of the theory. My thinking is this. Koby is to Luffy as Garp was to Roger....he's the Marine Rival that Luffy needs. Having two, Smoker and Koby, doesn't seem necessary. I could easily see Smoker leaving the marines at some point due to rampant injustice. There are some who would feel that he will ally himself with Aokiji. However, given that Aokiji's got a role in the current movie, I don't necessarily think he'll be returning in the manga for some time...until Akainu becomes a more prominent character. So then, that leaves Smoker to leave and form his own faction serving true justice. Again, this seems a bit superfluous. Smoker isn't really powerful enough to lead a significantly powerful group given his curbstomp loss to Trafalgar Law recently. I'm thinking at this point Luffy's pretty much moved past him. G5 is coming up....I'm waiting to see what happens. At the very least, given that G5 and Vergo are very tied up with Doflamingo, I expect Smoker to be an ally for the forseable future. Long term, if he's seeking true justice away from the marines there's a chance he will see that the best way to accomplish this is through Luffy....and maybe he'll see that freedom is the justice he's seeking. Again, this is a very unlikely component of my theory and I hope you won't consider my entire post invalid based on this point alone. I acknowledge the unlikeliness of it actually coming to pass. Still it's something I feel worth mentioning.
We also have to look at what the Gorousei have been doing so far. At this point, they haven't explicitly done anything evil beyond destruction the destruction of Ohara to cover up the void century. In the current storyline, we've seen Akainu as the primary proponent of Absolute Justice and some discord in the marines regarding this policy. This is the primary reason I feel like this split will be dealt with perhaps before the final events of the story at least to some degree. It would also give us some time with Dragon BEFORE Luffy is pirate king. It would seem a bit sudden to just bring Dragon out when it's time for his moment to shine and take a central role in the story along side the straw hats. After all, we've seen Oda take lots of time to develop and introduce other major characters earlier than their biggest moments in the story. So now, let's look at what the Gorousei have been saying. So far, they've been all about balance. The True History needs to reveal something that we as readers and the Straw Hats can justify upsetting that balance. So far, we haven't seen any movmenet on the World Government's end to acquire the ancient weapons on their own - so far those seeking the weapons were more extreme individuals such as Spandam and Crocodile. For this reason, I could also see Akainu pursuing the weapons with a bit more influence and authority as fleet admiral, making him a prominent villain. But inherently, there must be something about this current status quo beyond the obscene actions of the Celestial Dragons that will justify upsetting this balance and causing a global war that will shake the foundations of the One Piece world and thus fundamentally altering the power structure of the Government. For that reason, I believe the true history will reveal not only something that happened 800 years ago, but something currently going on in this false balance provided by the current stalemate between Emperors, Marines, and Warlords. Let's consider that 24 years ago in the era when Roger sailed the seas, sure enough there were pirates, but not to the same extent. He created this turbulent great pirate era which upset the balance of the world 24 years ago. Things have since settled into the current stalemate the Government is trying to maintain. As much as the World Gov wants to hide the true history and One Piece from the world, I believe this current balance is also incredibly important given the nature of the Gorosei's meetings. So what benefit would simply preserving balance provide? To me, this would indicate the Government wants everyone to be preoccupied, marines included fighting eachother evenly in this permanent stalemate, so they can continue with whatever this ultimate goal is and has been since the very creation of the WG 800 years ago.
Luffy, Zoro, Nami, Usopp, Sanji, Chopper, Robin, Franky, Brook, Jimbei, Carrot, Vivi, Smoker
"ONE PIECE, IT EXISTS" - The Great Pirate Edward Newgate
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Wall of important and well-explained text crits for 9001
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@Vongola_Boss_XI:
A rough estimate of the progression of events at this point would be moving on to Wano after Punk Hazard. G5 would fit nicely as an arc now, part of the bigger Doflamingo saga. perhaps another small arc as well…basiclaly i think we're building to a big 60 chapter arc with Dofla as the primary antagonist. The one thing I'd like to point out is that Luffy fighting Dofla now does not eliminate his potential to be used later in the series any more than it has Lucci, Eneru, Crocodile, and Moria all of whom are bound to return sooner or later.
I think this allows enough time to pass from Fishman Island. The Dofla story will intertwine with Big Mom in a way. Kid and Law will be allies in the fight against Big Mom so that Luffy won't fight an Emperor 1 on 1 so early in the new world and will save the impact of such an event for later in the series. Given the way things ended at Fishman Island I believe that the fight with Big mom will go full circle back to FI. We still have Shirley's premonition that Luffy will destroy the island. We saw a sillhouette of Luffy surrounded by a sea of flames...notice that Big Mom's crew burned an island to the ground that didn't pay tribute to her. I have a feeling that her vindictive side will bring the battle to the island itself. We'll deal with the Sun Pirates current situation and Jimbei joining the Straw Hats in this time and ultimately Luffy WILL destroy fishman island intentionally. After all the Fishmen and mermaids want to live on the surface - Luffy will destroy the island, guiding Shirahoshi and Noah to carry them to the surface on the promised day. Joy Boy flashback included.
At this point, some time will have passed in the manga from the first visit to FI...a month or two. At this point, the Fishmen will have moved to the surface. Given the hints in the cover story arc, Reverie should be happening in a month or two. Oda has mentioned this event so many times, I'd imagine that something big will happen there. The beauty of returning to FI after a bit of time has passed is that Reverie will be upon us...the first time the Fishmen will join. I'd imagine there will be some hubbub given that Neptune herself Princess Shirahoshi will be in attendance...and Caribou is privy to this fact. I do think the Straw Hats will crash this event for some unknown purpose at this point in time. This will give us a Vivi reunion and depending on how things go down at Reverie, I could see her sailing with the crew again. If anything the WG does begins to threaten Alabasta's well being in a manner in which sailing with Luffy helps Vivi save her kingdom, she would do so just as she left her country for years in the past. I could see it happening, but it all depends on what happens at Reverie.
This entire middle portion of your theory is, in my opinion, extremely likely to happen. I would also like to interject that, since Noah will be raised to the surface, the decisive battle of the Big Mom saga could take place at the Sunlight Tree Eve, which we have yet to see in full detail. The only thing I don't like, are Vivi's prospects of joining, because I don't particularly like her character, but it is plausible if not probable that she will join (along with our favorite duck).
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Thanks! haha yeah, I can see that. If it were to happen, my hope is that she's taken the two years to grow. Oda showed a bunch of characters reacting to news papers reporting on the Straw Hats actions at two points in the story. Once after Enies Lobby where we saw Vivi mixed in with Kureha, Zeff, Nojiko, etc. … basically all supporting characters. The second time was after the war, where he showed people responding to Luffy's actions at Marineford ringing the bell. Among those characters were Vivi, Crocodile, Buggy, Aokiji, Smoker, etc....all characters who will feature in the New World in some way. If Vivi were not to appear at any point in the New World her appearance at this point would seem a bit extraneous and we know Oda always likes to give us just enough, but never too much information. It was this sentiment that stopped him from having Shiki mentioned even in passing in the conversation between Whitebeard and Shanks. Furthermore, Vivi was the only one outside of the Straw Hats to comment directly on Luffy's tattoo, which was his message to his crew. It's just interesting to note that Vivi at least recognized the true message unlike Croc, Kid, Buggy, and the marines. She took the paper to her room and read it privately. Perhaps given 2 years her resolve and physical strength could both have increased.
Just a few more details - I think Luffy vs. Kaido will be the big moment when he takes down an emperor 1 on 1.
Koby may very well be the one Luffy fights as his final adversary. It would have a nice feel to it given that Luffy started out Koby as a marine at the very outset of his journey before he even met Zoro. It would be very fitting that Koby as the foremost Marine (perhaps AFTER the great war when all the dust has settled and true justice takes reign) and Luffy as the foremost pirate battle. However, given that this is Luffy's story and not Roger's, given that Garp never turned Roger in and that Roger turned himself in, likely for the purpose of creating the great pirate age, and that the Great Pirate age must then come to a close when it's purpose has been fulfilled, I do not believe Luffy's journey will end the same as Roger's. Crafting his final words to send pirates back out to sea after liberating the world from the WG would be pointless, unlike Roger's final words. I simply envision an open ending with Luffy and crew sailing off into the sunset in search of their next adventure.
I agree with those who feel Drake and Hawkins will feature prominently in Kaido's saga...and I feel this may also be when we deal with Vegapunk and Kuma.
Just some additional food for thought.
As for the final war after One Piece and Raftel...I don't envision a simple huge battle at Marijoa. Sure that will be the climax, but I get the feeling that when Oda says it will make Marineford pale in comparison, this will be a war on a completely different scale. I could easily see this as a time for the SH's to sail with freedom much like Shanks and Mihawk etc. to all corners of the OP world. After all, this war will involve the entire globe, not just Marijoa. I believe the WG has some serious power behind them beyond just the Marine fleet. If my theory about some ongoing plan by the WG turns out to be correct, then there's the possibility things are being done around the entire OP world...why build a giant bridge in the East Blue? We may still be unaware of a much bigger picture wherein the Government is acting around the world. Oda hid the face of the King of Goa....I just get the feeling that really big events will happen around the entire world of OP in the final saga. I'm expecting something in scale beyond anything we're really imagining....not just a single big battle at Marijoa. A cross between the scale of the Clone Wars (animated series) and Fullmetal Alchemist with a plot somewhere between Emepror Palpatine and Father's to subvert the entire world beneath the hoof of the celestial dragons.
Also, I wouldn't rule out some big events dealing with Davy Jones and the devil fruit themselves. It's interesting to consider for sure.
Luffy, Zoro, Nami, Usopp, Sanji, Chopper, Robin, Franky, Brook, Jimbei, Carrot, Vivi, Smoker
"ONE PIECE, IT EXISTS" - The Great Pirate Edward Newgate
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@Vongola_Boss_XI:
Just a few more details - I think Luffy vs. Kaido will be the big moment when he takes down an emperor 1 on 1.
I agree with those who feel Drake and Hawkins will feature prominently in Kaido's saga…and I feel this may also be when we deal with Vegapunk and Kuma.
I thought you meant Blackbeard, when you said that Luffy would eventually take down a YonkĹŤ 1v1. I am completely lost as to what KaidĹŤ's role in this story will be, but as you said, it will involve Drake, Vegapunk, and maybe Kuma. However, I would substitute Hawkins for Moria. Just out of curiosity, why did you posit Hawkins? He has no obvious connection to KaidĹŤ.
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You may be right about it being Blackbeard actually…really there's no weight to the idea of it being Luffy vs. Kaido to push him to the stratosphere. I was just thinking that someone taking down Kaido would sort of bring us down to 3 strong Pirates in the New World as we start to hit the home stretch approaching Raftel - Luffy, Blackbeard, and Shanks. I'm really not sure how big Law and Kid will get or when / if their rivalry will hit it's peak.
I think you're on the right track though with Kaido. There's really no way to tell what his role is going to be. I also agree about Moria featuring in that saga.
For Hawkins, I had no particular reason...I guess just because he seems important, but in truth, he could be worked in at any point. He really doesn't have any connection to Kaido now that I think about it. Hawkins seems to be more violent as a pirate than Law and Luffy, so I guess I was just making the connection to Kaido seemingly being militant and ambitious from the few bits of information we've gotten about him so far. It was conjecture based on only a little bit of knowledge of both characters.
Hawkins and Kaido are really pretty much up in the air at this point actually, so it was probably a bit premature of me to theorize about their roles in the story.
Bonney also have to have an important role at some point....I'm at a loss as to where and when she'll appear again though.
Similarly, I'm not really sure where the return of Crocodile, (most likely) Shichibukai Buggy, Eneru and his space army, and rogue group former CP9 will appear, but I'm looking forward to seeing them again. I think we're going to get more bacstory on Crocodile at some point. He seems to have some relationship with Whitebeard so maybe whenever we see Marco and the other ex-WB pirates again we'll delve more into his character and his origins.
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Another thing that eludes me… I have this strange feeling that there is some huge Crocodile/Doflamingo/Ivankov connection that is just outside our grasp... How does Ivankov know Crocodile? Where and when do they know each other from, and what is the nature of Crocodile's "weakness"? Why did Doflamingo act so passive aggressive towards Crocodile, and why did Crocodile reciprocate in a similar manner? How did Doflamingo know the true nature of Kuma's transformation? It's all so convoluted, it must be something right in front of us that we're missing.
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Hm….yes, I definitely see what you're saying. Perhaps that will be worked into a second appearance for Doflamingo. After all, one defeat will hardly cripple him. Just like Croc has returned from his first defeat, perhaps there will be another saga later in the New World when we'll get some insight into Doflamingo's relationship with Crocodile and Iva. I don't really get the feeling we'll be seeing Iva and Croc again so soon. Just like Croc's appearance at Alabasta and Impel Down was separated by a few hundred chapters, maybe we're in store for more Dofla later in the series if in fact he goes down in this current big saga.
Just like Croc had his big return in ID, I could see a return for Dofla when we find out even more about his government ties later on. He'd probably be stripped of his Shichibukai status at this point, so it would put his character in a new light wherein we see he's able to carry on without his WG rank due to more secretive connections which won't be exposed or undone.
Just an idea, but who knows really. You're definitely right there seems to be something to that relationship between those 3 / 4 characters.
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If I may interject:
Doesn't there exist the possibility that, even though it's been stated (and inferred) that Blackbeard isn't "the man Roger's waiting for", Blackbeard could still reach One Piece before Luffy? Just hear me out: What if, and I stress what if, Blackbeard beats Luffy and gets to the One Piece first. And, when he does, what if he reaches a different conclusion regarding what's there that Luffy doesn't. We all know Robin's been on the Poneglyph hunt, so she's more attuned to what they've all been saying. And, I'm pretty sure BB and his crew haven't even considered finding one Poneglyph (or, at least, it hasn't yet been stated in-manga or otherwise that he has been), so if Raftel or the One Piece is a Poneglyph (or a Poneglyph @ Raftel plays an integral role in the One Piece), who's to say BB knows what to do with it once he's approached/reached it? And therefore, comes to a different understanding of it than Luffy would.
Rayleigh made mention of the Jolly Roger pirates being "too hasty" in what they've found regarding the Void Century, and urged Robin (and, in essence, the Strawhats) to take it slower, one step at a time, so that they may come to a different conclusion. What if the "One Piece" is a relic of the Void Century, and the Poneglyph is instructions as to how to use said relic. Or something else entirely. What if BB takes this "One Piece" and puts it to use in a far different manner than "the Man Roger's been waiting for" would have used it. Obviously, the Will of D would play an important role in this, and obviously would include Luffy. The parallels between Luffy and Joy Boy, and him carrying the Will of Roger/Ace/etc. would probably play out as this goes on.
….blah blah, I could keep going on. Regardless, all I'm really trying to say is, the fight with Blackbeard and Luffy doesn't have to play out before One Piece is discovered. In fact, there could be other venues where the fight could take place AFTER One Piece is/was well done discovered and over with. Thus, the ultimate battle to come afterward could very well still be between BB and Luffy, if played out differently than to what your theories would say.
Just an idea, anyways.
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I'll respond with more later, but for now this is a topic I made a few months back which may elaborate on this further.
http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=33797&p=2365895#post2365895
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Thanks for the novel, Vongola.
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Disagree with Coby being New Garp. I can more easily see Smoker taking that role as the guy who chases down the Pirate King until the bitter end. Coby, I believe, will end up being New Sengoku, aka the one who takes over and puts things straight after Sakazuki's inevitable downfall. Naturally Coby will have to grow a whole lot, and he will almost certainly have one last rematch with Luffy before the series ends, but with all the crazy stuff that'll undoubtedly happen before the final chapter, I can see him standing up to be a much needed voice of reason for the Marines. He might not be Fleet Admiral, but will probably take on some important job for the sake of keeping justice in check.
Or I could be wrong. It would still be kind of cool to have the student of Garp be the one to serve as a rival to the successor of Roger, but I don't know, I see my first idea working just a little better.
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Disagree with Coby being New Garp. I can more easily see Smoker taking that role as the guy who chases down the Pirate King until the bitter end. Coby, I believe, will end up being New Sengoku, aka the one who takes over and puts things straight after Sakazuki's inevitable downfall. Naturally Coby will have to grow a whole lot, and he will almost certainly have one last rematch with Luffy before the series ends, but with all the crazy stuff that'll undoubtedly happen before the final chapter, I can see him standing up to be a much needed voice of reason for the Marines. He might not be Fleet Admiral, but will probably take on some important job for the sake of keeping justice in check.
Or I could be wrong. It would still be kind of cool to have the student of Garp be the one to serve as a rival to the successor of Roger, but I don't know, I see my first idea working just a little better.
I can't really comprehend Coby's training during the timeskip to anywhere near Luffy's. And before the timeskip Coby was already far outclassed(probably Bon Clay level)
I agree that Coby has no chance to walk in Garp's footsteps. But until Coby's "improvement debut" in the New World, its still very much in the air.
But maybe he trained in the hyperbolic time chamber like last time(I expect him to look 20 years older this time)
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Coby post-timeskip:
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I can't really comprehend Coby's training during the timeskip to anywhere near Luffy's. And before the timeskip Coby was already far outclassed(probably Bon Clay level)
Well, remember… Coby didn't even have a grasp on Haki before the TS. He's certainly trained his proficiency since then, and I wouldn't be surprised if it has powered him up immensely. Not to mention, he could have eaten a DF since then (I'm not sure if that would cheapen his character or not, I'm just saying, it's possible).
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Why no option for World Government?
I'm pretty sure good ol' Whitebeard explicitly told us what the final arc of One-Piece is going to be, and who the villain is.
While Blackbeard will no doubt be the final person he fights on Raftel to become Pirate King, we all know that the series isn't going to end then, because the Straw Hats will take what they've learned and use it to change the world.
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If your theories are right, I doubt the story of One Piece is simply half over.
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If your theories are right, I doubt the story of One Piece is simply half over.
I actually think the New World will take less time than the first half. I think there'll be 2-3 big sagas, each covering a large part of the story. We're in the first now which will end with Dofla and a Warlord being deal with.
I see these sagas running about 100 chapters each maybe a bit more, which ain't much. Then the raftel arc being about 50. Then the war another 50.
Which if you think about it, pretty much mirrors the first half. (BW, Skypeia, EL. Then a short arc in TB, which actually starts to set up the big War arc that will conclude this half of the story.)
I definitely believe the series will easily hit 100 chapters and probably make it close to 1100 before it ends.
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@Nex:
I see these sagas running about 100 chapters each maybe a bit more, which ain't much. Then the raftel arc being about 50. Then the war another 50.
Which if you think about it, pretty much mirrors the first half. (BW, Skypeia, EL. Then a short arc in TB, which actually starts to set up the big War arc that will conclude this half of the story.)
I definitely believe the series will easily hit 100 chapters and probably make it close to 1100 before it ends.
LOL, did you just omit East Blue? And say chapters instead of volumes? :P
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@Nex:
I actually think the New World will take less time than the first half. I think there'll be 2-3 big sagas, each covering a large part of the story. We're in the first now which will end with Dofla and a Warlord being deal with.
I see these sagas running about 100 chapters each maybe a bit more, which ain't much. Then the raftel arc being about 50. Then the war another 50.
Which if you think about it, pretty much mirrors the first half. (BW, Skypeia, EL. Then a short arc in TB, which actually starts to set up the big War arc that will conclude this half of the story.)
I definitely believe the series will easily hit 100 chapters and probably make it close to 1100 before it ends.
I agree it will be similar meaning maybe an Alabasta saga made up of small arcs. However I think apart from that and the final war the new arcs will be very different than the first half. I'd say One Piece will reach a little over 1200 unless Oda is bored in 5 more years and rushes it.
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haha I think it's possible we're not quite halfway yet given Oda's previous statements about the halfway point for the series. At this point, I think he's just in for the long haul and enjoying One Piece as much as we are.
I'm not so sure I see Luffy at Raftel in 300 chapters….Dofla, Big Mom, Reverie, there's 200 there easy (assuming theories are correct, which they may not be). I can't see Luffy's journey in the New World being shorter or easier than his journey in the first half. After all, the first half is paradise. Oda has to sell the new world as this crazy place full of adventure and super powerful pirates. He claims he has lots of ideas. I can't see the rest all being dealt with in 100 chapters. I also expect that Oda will introduce new characters in the NW we haven't seen yet in the first half of the Grand Line.
I'm thinking 1500+ chapters at this point. I just feel like Oda's able to do whatever he wants now. I think the war will be much more than 50 chapters too. I may be wrong, but Oda's still introducing new characters even as he's dealing with some older characters. I think NW will have 4 - 5 big sagas. As for length of said arcs....Oda's individual arcs are getting longer. I mean just look at Thriller Bark, a standalone arc lasted 50 chapters. Aside from Amazon Lily he hasn't done anything short in quite some time. Punk Hazard is already at 20 chapters. Oda kept saying halfway...first in Alabasta, then in Water Seven, then after Enies Lobby, then at Impel Down, then after the war. I just feel like halfway keeps moving with the Straw Hats because he has so many ideas and so many things he wants to add to the series. My estimate is 1500....partially depending on just how big the final war is....but Oda keeps talking about how it's going to be the best part of One Piece, so I'm expecting it to be pretty big. Given the unbelievable success of the series, Oda's dedication to writing an amazing story and his devotion to his fans, and Oda's passion for the series, I really think the sky is the limit now. He can basically go wherever he wants....and I think he's throwing all he has into One Piece.
Luffy, Zoro, Nami, Usopp, Sanji, Chopper, Robin, Franky, Brook, Jimbei, Carrot, Vivi, Smoker
"ONE PIECE, IT EXISTS" - The Great Pirate Edward Newgate
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@Vongola_Boss_XI:
haha I think it's possible we're not quite halfway yet given Oda's previous statements about the halfway point for the series. At this point, I think he's just in for the long haul and enjoying One Piece as much as we are.
I'm not so sure I see Luffy at Raftel in 300 chapters….
I'm thinking 1500+ chapters at this point. I just feel like Oda's able to do whatever he wants now. I think the war will be much more than 50 chapters too. I may be wrong, but Oda's still introducing new characters even as he's dealing with some older characters. I think NW will have 4 - 5 big sagas. As for length of said arcs....Oda's individual arcs are getting longer. I mean just look at Thriller Bark, a standalone arc lasted 50 chapters. Aside from Amazon Lily he hasn't done anything short in quite some time. Punk Hazard is already at 20 chapters. Oda kept saying halfway...first in Alabasta, then in Water Seven, then after Enies Lobby, then at Impel Down, then after the war. I just feel like halfway keeps moving with the Straw Hats because he has so many ideas and so many things he wants to add to the series. My estimate is 1500....partially depending on just how big the final war is....but Oda keeps talking about how it's going to be the best part of One Piece, so I'm expecting it to be pretty big.
@1500 chapters, I sure hope so. I'm pretty saddened when I look back and realize that I've been reading this for almost 100 chapters weekly already. I think Punk Hazard is a good sign. He's still only giving slight hints to things we probably never even thought we'd get explanations to (example, the origin of giants). So the story will keep expanding. And Oda's still keeping his mysterious style. He's mentioned a lot of things in SBS's, like that the universe he invented with One Piece allows him to make a school arc if he wants to, and he's generally been following up, or at least you can tell he's going to follow up on, a lot of his SBS promises (another example, wanted to make a mech manga, well he's incorporating that into Franky).
Oda bleeds over this manga and it shows, but he probably sees it as good blood shed on a journey to conquering Mount Everest. I love hanging out here, I love getting a headache stewing over theories that have a 5% chance of being right and being blown away by the actual result… 1000 chapters, as greedy as it sounds, just sounds too little to me. There's just so many things that need to be resolved, so many things Oda wants to do, and he loves going over the top on everything, so those resolutions will be lengthy. I want to evolve as a poster here as One Piece evolves (in my opinion, there are a few dozen posters here that are better than high-level posters at SomethingAwful which is supposedly where all the best posters go to hang, so that's just insane). These first few arcs of the New World will tell us a lot about the length of the series, but as I've said before, I think the New World has been Oda's vision for One Piece from the start that's he's finally on his way to painting with his pen.
Anyway!
This has been a pretty dumb, stubborn theory of mine but I've always imagined the Gorousei as the final villains. I think they'll have absolutely abominable, horrifying Devil Fruits the likes of which we've never seen. A hellish battle in the Holyland of Mariejoa. They have battlescars, and one of them carries a sword he's constantly polishing, so they're pretty suspicious to me. And so little of them has been revealed. We haven't seen them lift a finger. I like both the idea of them sitting on top of the Heavens (Mariejoas) simply as 5 extremely influential political figures, and the idea of them having dark secrets that aren't just the contents of the Void Century. I'll be completely satisfied with either. But thinking about their titles and all that this is probably completely off. Compounded with the fact that the Celestial Dragons are just weak shits who ride on their ancestors' coattails, yet they're still top dogs of the One Piece world… The Five Elder Stars may just be a more composed version of them, carrying on the oppression. -
I honestly don't see any marines being worthy enough as final villains. It sorta goes against the whole "shade of grey' theme between piracy and justice.
I'm putting my money on Blackbeard since he's directly responsible for escalating a huge domino effect of mayhem for his own benefit. I mean, he's went as far as to giving the Marines the opportunity(Ace) to off Whitebeard, and for what? To take highly destructive Devil Fruit ability and nothing else. It's crazy, even though he didn't have full control over it at the time he obtained it. Blackbeard is a developing villian, and he's been a work in progress since his very introduction. I'm not going to argue over whether not Akainu is going to be final villian or even a villian. To me, he's just one of the dedicated marines and that makes him dangerous. Maybe if Luffy defeats him, it would avenge Ace… but, I find revenge a weak story in itself. If anything, it would be more realistic or more interesting for Luffy to be robbed the chance of getting revenge himself. I mean, defeating or killing Akainu isn't even in Luffy's major goals on his adventure, and even then it would seem out of character. I have a feeling most of this would be resolved depending on what kind of character Sabo is once he shows up again. Would Sabo encourage Luffy to go for revenge? You know? It would be a nice contrast for Luffy's crew to meet his "other" brother and realize that he isn't as sincere as Ace, especially if seems crazy or bent on revenge(just theory, so don't shoot me down for this, hahah!)
But yeah. That's what I think. Akainu doesn't really cut it at all for a satisfying built up battle to begin with.
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Oda told you already when this happened.
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LOL, did you just omit East Blue? And say chapters instead of volumes? :P
Yeah, I left out East Blue, as I was purposely comparing the two halves of the grandline, and how I think they'll mirror each other. The first half was ~500 chapters, so if the second half is ~500 chapters, add in the 100 from East Blue, and you get the 1100 I mentioned. I might not have been clear about that.
And I definitely meant chapters instead of volumes.
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@Superbear:
Oda told you already when this happened.
The irony had Blackbeard fought Luffy here, the fight over One Piece decided over pies vs drinks. Blackbeard looks like a background character here his black pirate outfit makes him much more badass. Also not that it's important but doesn't he go on to say in private that he thought 30,000,000 berries(however the phuq you say it) was too low?
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@Nex:
Yeah, I left out East Blue, as I was purposely comparing the two halves of the grandline, and how I think they'll mirror each other. The first half was ~500 chapters, so if the second half is ~500 chapters, add in the 100 from East Blue, and you get the 1100 I mentioned. I might not have been clear about that.
I see what you're saying, but East Blue could easily be substituted by the short Fishman Island arc, because they weren't in the New Word yet while they were at FI, and it doesn't seem like FI is at all relevant to this new Doflamingo saga.
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No Gorosei in the list and not even in "Other" option? I'm disappointed.
I voted for a brand new character tho, I bet there will be someone higher than Gorosei.
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Buggy Senchou .
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I can't really comprehend Coby's training during the timeskip to anywhere near Luffy's. And before the timeskip Coby was already far outclassed(probably Bon Clay level)
I agree that Coby has no chance to walk in Garp's footsteps. But until Coby's "improvement debut" in the New World, its still very much in the air.
But maybe he trained in the hyperbolic time chamber like last time(I expect him to look 20 years older this time)
If we know 1 thing, is that Garp's training is brutal. Coby already had some of the basic rokushiki techniques down like soru, and he probably woulda learned a few more since then, on top of haki. You are seriously underestimating him. His teacher is Garp the legendary hero of the Marines and the man that fought Roger so many times.
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No Gorosei in the list and not even in "Other" option? I'm disappointed.
I voted for a brand new character tho, I bet there will be someone higher than Gorosei.
That's too typical anime for One Piece me thinks. But I could be wrong, and Oda could do it.
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@Dahaka.:
Luffy was strong enough to beat crocodile at the beginning of the manga… that's not my point, my point is, that we KNOW how he gained that power. A yami yami no mi wasn't an asspul.. wtf man, did we read the same manga? He waited long, long time, and when he finally found that power, he killed thatch and took it from him, then he gathered the crew, aquired title of shichibukai by catching ace, then he broke in to impel down, completed his crew, killed WB and stole his power. We only don't know his past and "shanks scar incident", but we only halfway in the story, so more facts about hist past will be revealed later. And what makes him awesome aside from this is the fact that he is not super badass awesome villian that makes no mistakes. He FAILS CONSTANTLY, just like Luffy. Most of the villians are untouchable until its time to kick their ass. Blackbeard was pwned by magellan, he almost cried when WB was about to murder him, ace hit him a few times, he screamed like a bitch, even luffy jet pistoleted him like a boss. Always when he gets too self-confident and cocky someone kicks his ass, showing that he is just a mere pirate, and not ultimate god untouchable final villian from very start, like tobi or aizen. That is what makes him absolutly amazing final villian, IMO best final villian of all long-running shounen series.
Yeah man, all the way. BB's the anti-Luffy, both tough pre-introductions, but have both grown so much, and still weaknesses're shown. For instance, BB fxckin' pegging it after Akainu turned up for Bonney. But I think 3-way match'll go down. Akainu's gotta' be there, the WG'll be further fxcked by this point, what with the Supernovae doing their bit + level 6 prisoners on the loose + everything else, then Absolute Justice'll will go down swinging.
EDIT: Luffy wants to fxck both of them over anyways, they both are inextricably linked to Ace's downfall. And they both stand in the way of his dream. He ain't gonna' forget that.
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I guess that Law, Kid and Luffy will have their showdown, but the ultimate battle has to be against the Blackbeard Crew, can't be coincidence that both crews have the same number of members ;)
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The World Government will wage war against whoever becomes the next Pirate King.
Luffy will have to defeat Blackbeard to become the Pirate King.
Conclusion, Blackbeard can't be the final obstacle.
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Yeah man, all the way. BB's the anti-Luffy, both tough pre-introductions, but have both grown so much, and still weaknesses're shown. For instance, BB fxckin' pegging it after Akainu turned up for Bonney. But I think 3-way match'll go down. Akainu's gotta' be there, the WG'll be further fxcked by this point, what with the Supernovae doing their bit + level 6 prisoners on the loose + everything else, then Absolute Justice'll will go down swinging.
I still don't understand this… It would make sense if BB were alone, but he had his entire super-strong crew with him.
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You are seriously underestimating him.
Guilty as charged. I'm definitely a Coby hater. When it comes down to it, I don't want anyone to come from behind to catch Luffy, wouldn't that imply that Coby has more talent if he caught up? He was a baby in episode 1, that would be a slap in the face to Luffy, who had fought all his life.
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Guilty as charged. I'm definitely a Coby hater. When it comes down to it, I don't want anyone to come from behind to catch Luffy, wouldn't that imply that Coby has more talent if he caught up? He was a baby in episode 1, that would be a slap in the face to Luffy, who had fought all his life.
I would think of it more as Luffy had 17 years of Luffy training and 2 years of Rayleigh training, while Coby had nothing and then 3 years of Garp training, which is as good as or better than Rayleigh training, so the extra year can make up for those 17 where Luffy was inefficient :x
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I would think of it more as Luffy had 17 years of Luffy training and 2 years of Rayleigh training, while Coby had nothing and then 3 years of Garp training, which is as good as or better than Rayleigh training, so the extra year can make up for those 17 where Luffy was inefficient :x
"Luffy training" wasn't exactly inefficient, considering how physically strong he already was in the beginning of the manga and that later on he came up with stuff like the gears…
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If Coby ever ate a DF, what do you think it would be?
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If Coby ever ate a DF, what do you think it would be?
Something really hax, in order to actually make him a threat to Luffy. A logia of some sort probably.
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"Luffy training" wasn't exactly inefficient, considering how physically strong he already was in the beginning of the manga and that later on he came up with stuff like the gears…
Compare that to how much he accomplished in just a year and a half under Rayleigh.
If Coby and Helmeppo are still training under Garp, does that mean they're back at Luffy's home town?
