Please elaborate on this Zolo & Coco Village thing. Do you just mean the naming? If so, "Coco" doesn't seem so bad; if it were spelled "Cocoa", that would fit perfectly with Usopp coming from "Syrup" village.
New Official Viz Manga Discussion
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I buy the OP manga from Viz. What can I say, I think it does a pretty good job.
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Why should I spent near $10 on a translation I don't think is good? Especially when it takes them so long to put out a single volume. It's not worth it. And I want to read the 300-some chapters they haven't translated yet.
if DBZ can use Kame Hame Ha I can't see why OP can't use Gomu Gomu…
I think Kamehameha was the name of a Hawaiian king, so there's nothing to translate it to. Plus the anime actually lip synced those parts, so there's nothing the dubbers could change it to. I think they would have changed it if they could have, like they did with everything else in DBZ.
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@Mr.:
Why should I spent near $10 on a translation I don't think is good? Especially when it takes them so long to put out a single volume. It's not worth it. And I want to read the 300-some chapters they haven't translated yet.
Think about it this way. Any fan-translated material is illegal. stephen's violating copyright law by translating it and let public to read, so is Null or any other fan that's producing fan-trans/scanlations.
If Oda, Shuei-sha, and/or VIZ want to go money craze, they can just shut us off. Then what? The easiest way for you to enjoy One Piece is to read VIZ's edition. Otherwise you'll be spending many years to learn Japanese to be able to understand it fully.
So is 10 dollar worth it?
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Ah, that's a point.
I dunno, I guess I'm just nostalgic for that time when anime was unpopular, and translation projects amounted to a few guys in a basement subbing titles and mailing them out simply out of love for it.
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Think about it this way. Any fan-translated material is illegal. stephen's violating copyright law by translating it and let public to read, so is Null or any other fan that's producing fan-trans/scanlations.
If Oda, Shuei-sha, and/or VIZ want to go money craze, they can just shut us off. Then what? The easiest way for you to enjoy One Piece is to read VIZ's edition. Otherwise you'll be spending many years to learn Japanese to be able to understand it fully.
So is 10 dollar worth it?
I think scanlations are violating copyright law, but I don't think that translations are. I've heard of companies (ADV comes to mind) asking fansubbers to stop distributing their licensed products, but I've never heard of any company asking anyone to take down their text translations (such as in the case of the End of Evangelion fan-translated text script).
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I buy the OP manga from Viz. What can I say, I think it does a pretty good job.
Observe!
I [watch the OP dub by 4Kids]. What can I say, I think it does a pretty good job.
Without contrast, your opinion isn't entirely your own; it's partially influenced by Viz. I thought FUNi's original DBZ was done really well, too; then I saw the original Japanese, followed by FUNi's mid-Freeza saga dub.
If Oda, Shuei-sha, and/or VIZ want to go money craze, they can just shut us off. Then what? The easiest way for you to enjoy One Piece is to read VIZ's edition. Otherwise you'll be spending many years to learn Japanese to be able to understand it fully.
So is 10 dollar worth it?
Good things come to those who wait; I would rather take the time to learn Japanese, which opens up a number of doors for me beyond reading manga, and furthermore enjoy OP in a lump sum when I finish. It's a bit of a reward for all the hard work I invested.
The problem with serialization is that it strains a person's interest in a story, strains the manga-ka with relatively short deadlines, and is mostly a painful wating process. Although I like coming to AP and discussing my favourite manga with everyone, I enjoyed OP a ton better when I first discovered it and I had the ability to breeze through East Blue, Alabasta, and Jaya.
For a short while, I couldn't access Skypiea's second half, so I lost interest for a bit. However, when I managed to uncover those missing seventy or so chapters (up through Water 7), it was marvelous.
Even if we buy all of Viz's tankos, we still have to put up with the god-dang waiting game, only this time, it's for cosmetic, aesthetic, and disposition related material. Dumb, unnecessary reasons related to Viz believing OP needs to be Americanized to be successful. That's not something I think is worth waiting for, and since OP is likely going to continue being serialized for a long time in Japan, I could learn Japanese and circumnaviate around Viz in the long run.
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I've been asked to take down text translation in the past. I did dig up copyright law then, and confirmed that's illegal. At least according to Japanese law. Email discussion with the publisher is quoted below.
@Media:Aku Tenshi 御中
株式会社メディアワークス法務部よりご連絡申し上げます。
貴方のウェブサイトを拝見したところ、
田中久仁彦の作による『一撃殺虫!!ホイホイさん』を
英語に翻訳したものがそのまま掲載されております。
『一撃殺虫!!ホイホイさん』の著作権は私どもメディアワークスが管理をしております。
作品にご興味を持っていただくことはありがたく存じますが、
貴方の行為は明らかに著作権の侵害にあたる違法行為ですので、即刻掲載をおやめください。すでに当該書籍の著者からの苦情も入っており、大いに迷惑しております。
つきましては、早急に誠意あるご対応をいただきたく存じます。
本申し入れが無視された場合は、法的な措置をとることも検討させていただきますので、
その旨御承知おきくださいますようよろしくお願い申し上げます。まずは取り急ぎご連絡まで。
@me:
株式会社メディアワークス
法務部- 様
大変失礼いたしました。削除しました。ご確認ください。田中久仁彦氏にも謝罪の意をお伝え願えますか?
ただ、日本語が読めなくても、『一撃殺虫!!ホイホイさん』の漫画を買って、読みたがっている人がたくさんいます。テキストフォーマットの翻訳だけでも掲載する事は可能でしょうか? May I put up a text translation on the web?
また、トップページにあるホイホイさんのイメージ、および登場人物紹介のページ（イメージ含む）は残してもいいでしょうか?ご検討をよろしくお願いいたします。
ocean
Daniel Lin.@MW:
Daniel Lin様
本文削除のご対応ありがとうございました。サイトを確認いたしました。
アメリカにもファンの方々がいらっしゃるということは非常に嬉しく存じます。
ですが、翻訳を個人で楽しんで頂くのはかまわないのですが、
翻訳権を正式に許諾しておりませんので、サイト掲載は許可できないことをご理解ください。
(Though, it's okay for you to enjoy translation privately, but you didn't get the right to translate, so we cannot allow you to publish it to the web.)
また、弊社では個人運営のサイトに対しては、画像の使用許諾は行っておりません。
画像使用は、公式サイトのみとさせていただいております。
作品の感想を述べたり、交流の掲示板を設置するなど、
個人の楽しみの範囲でファンサイトを作っていただく分にはかまいませんが、
トップページやキャラクター紹介でも画像は使用しないようお願い申し上げます。『一撃殺虫!!ホイホイさん』に関しましては、
正式に米国版が出版される可能性もございますので、
どうぞそれまでお待ちいただけますようお願い申し上げます。取り急ぎお返事まで。
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I've been asked to take down text translation in the past. I did dig up copyright law then, and confirmed that's illegal. At least according to Japanese law. Email discussion with the publisher is quoted below.
Wow, that's… really surprising, particularly because a text translation encourages fans to buy the tankouban in order to follow along. Is this a common practice among Japanese companies?
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Technically, a text translation for OP is going to come from an already illegal camera or high quality scan of a chapter. It would be a bit odd for something coming from something illegal to not be illegal itself.
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Technically, a text translation for OP is going to come from an already illegal camera or high quality scan of a chapter. It would be a bit odd for something coming from something illegal to not be illegal itself.
Most Japanese bookstores in the states offer Jump on a weekly basis. Last week, when I was in Chicago, I purchased the latest copy of Jump at Mitsuwa.
Text translations don't always come from an illegal source. My translations of Pretear, Kirara Princess, and a variety of different other shoujo series came directly from the Japanese tankouban/serialization magazines I purchased.
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@Mr.:
I think Kamehameha was the name of a Hawaiian king, so there's nothing to translate it to. Plus the anime actually lip synced those parts, so there's nothing the dubbers could change it to. I think they would have changed it if they could have, like they did with everything else in DBZ.
Actually, they could have rendered it Turtle Destruction Wave, but that sounds really stupid when it comes down to it. The way that Goku used it when it first appeared the manga (keeping in mind that they split DB and DBZ into two comics) also made it difficult to translate as such. The attack was announced in very small word bubbles as Ka Me Ha Me Ha, which really precludes breaking Turtle Destruction Wave in such a way as to fit the bubbles and still make sense.
On the other hand, they translated Makankōsappō as Light of Death (and got a lot of flack about it in the process despite it being a valid rendering of the phrase), but it was used as a complete phrase. Had it been introduced in similar fashion to the Kamehameha, it probably would have been left alone as well.
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Wow, that's… really surprising, particularly because a text translation encourages fans to buy the tankouban in order to follow along. Is this a common practice among Japanese companies?
Probably not. It's their loss that they didn't think of "free advertisement," or maybe they just had to say no for legal reason because I asked. Now that I think of it, if I didn't ask for it specifically, they probably let go of text translation. Oh well. It's been exactly one year since we exchanged that email, but nobody hasn't licensed Hoihoi-san yet. Bad move.
Text translations don't always come from an illegal source. My translations of Pretear, Kirara Princess, and a variety of different other shoujo series came directly from the Japanese tankouban/serialization magazines I purchased.
Usually translators don't scan the tanko and they just get tanko scan from scanners. Scanning is illegal. Agree? I don't know any translator who puts his/her tanko on the side of keyboard and translate it. It's just too much work. (Gotta hold down the tanko to stay open.)
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Probably not. It's their loss that they didn't think of "free advertisement," or maybe they just had to say no for legal reason because I asked. Now that I think of it, if I didn't ask for it specifically, they probably let go of text translation. Oh well. It's been exactly one year since we exchanged that email, but nobody hasn't licensed Hoihoi-san yet. Bad move.
I agree. It's no big secret that American licensers look at the popularity of certain fansubs/scanlations to decide what series to license. If anything, scanlators, translators, and fansubbers are doing a huge favor to the Japanese companies; by promoting their series abroad, they are not just contributing to the sale of the original Japanese tankouban, but also setting the stage for an American license.
Usually translators don't scan the tanko and they just get tanko scan from scanners. Scanning is illegal. Agree? I don't know any translator who puts his/her tanko on the side of keyboard and translate it. It's just too much work. (Gotta hold down the tanko to stay open.)
Sadly… I do, particularly if I can find scans of the work online (which is rather common with shoujo manga). The only series that I've translated as part of a scanlation project where I didn't own the actual tankouban was Tales of Eternia (which I still translate for Boku-Tachi today). I did, however, pick up a few of the Tales of Eternia tankouban when I saw them for sale, and gave made a gift of them to my TC at the time.
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I agree. It's no big secret that American licensers look at the popularity of certain fansubs/scanlations to decide what series to license. If anything, scanlators, translators, and fansubbers are doing a huge favor to the Japanese companies; by promoting their series abroad, they are not just contributing to the sale of the original Japanese tankouban, but also setting the stage for an American license.
But when they keep scanlating/translating it after licensing (ie. One Piece), then that defeats the original purpose of it.
As a scanlator, I don't think I'm doing a huge favor to the Japanese companies. Not at all. My main purpose is to introduce whatever series I like to English reading audience (and licensors) so more people would know the greatness of it. For that reason, I usually get happy when something gets licensed, so that I can stop scanlating that title and move onto the next project.
Sadly… I do, particularly if I can find scans of the work online (which is rather common with shoujo manga). The only series that I've translated as part of a scanlation project where I didn't own the actual tankouban was Tales of Eternia (which I still translate for Boku-Tachi today). I did, however, pick up a few of the Tales of Eternia tankouban when I saw them for sale, and gave made a gift of them to my TC at the time.
Umm. So do you actually put tanko next to you and translate? Or do you translate from scans even though you own tanko?
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Dumb, unnecessary reasons related to Viz believing OP needs to be Americanized to be successful.
What all have they do to it the way of Americanization though?
They haven't rendered phrases in such a way that wouldn't make sense to Americans and what else? The piratical dialogue? From what I understand, the original Japanese has them use slang that is rougly equivalent.
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But when they keep scanlating/translating it after licensing (ie. One Piece), then that defeats the original purpose of it.
I can't argue with that; I continue to translate One Piece, even though it's licensed. I suppose the logic in doing that is so that fans can continue to read the series even after it's been licensed. It might just be me, but I tend to lose interest in a series when I don't read it after awhile. While re-reading old chapters of One Piece is satisfying, it's the new chapters that keep my interest in the series piqued. By continuing to translate new chapters, I think what I'm trying to do is keep interest alive in the fans until Viz catches up with the Japanese (granted that they ever do!). Hopefully by doing this, they'll continue to buy One Piece products.
Of course, people should continue to buy the Japanese tankouban or English graphic novels, and support the series and Eiichiro Oda.
As a scanlator, I don't think I'm doing a huge favor to the Japanese companies. Not at all. My main purpose is to introduce whatever series I like to English reading audience (and licensors) so more people would know the greatness of it. For that reason, I usually get happy when something gets licensed, so that I can stop scanlating that title and move onto the next project.
I guess my words came out wrong; perhaps we're not doing a "big favor", but we're doing a lot to expediate the licensing process.
Umm. So do you actually put tanko next to you and translate? Or do you translate from scans even though you own tanko?
Sadly, usually, yes. The works currently being serialized in Nakayoshi and Ribon aren't all that popular, and finding scans on the web is rather difficult. I usually lay across my bed with a pen and paper and the magazine itself when I intend on doing text translations for series from these serials.
In the case of One Piece, however, even if I own the JUMP from that week, I usually use the scans. It's much easier to alt-tab from notepad to a scanned page than to deal with a clunky book and looseleaf.
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Jesus. I feel really stupid not knowing this stuff right now.
It's true what the say, knowing a harder language does increase your intelligence.
I actually feel dumber learning Spainish (no offense to those that speak it).
I didn't mean for this thread to turn into rant-ta-palooza.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go learn Japanese. Since it seems to make you smarter.
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Text translations don't always come from an illegal source.
I think they'd still be illegal, though, since you're copying [parts of] copyrighted material.
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@Mr.:
I think they'd still be illegal, though, since you're copying [parts of] copyrighted material.
I understand, but it seems a bit crazy to go after someone for THAT.
What about people who post the Lyrics to songs? Come on now.
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What about people who post the Lyrics to songs? Come on now.
That's actually illegal as well and the music industry is going to start cracking down on it from what I hear. Not to mention that they've shut down sites for that in the past.
It's stupid, but that's current copyright law for you.
Complicating things since 2009.
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Technically, a text translation for OP is going to come from an already illegal camera or high quality scan of a chapter. It would be a bit odd for something coming from something illegal to not be illegal itself.
Actually, a translation is the property of the translator, however the translated article was obtained.
That said, overall lots of artists these days of things like manga, american comic books, TC shows, and some movies don't mind you copying their stuff and sending it out, and this law all comes down to whether the artists prosecute. Lots of artists know that their real money comes not from the manga but from action figures, calendars, video games etc. so if you don't ask for money, they usually don't press charges.
Look at the three guys who just recently got arrested…Rumiko Takahashi and I forget who all esle all knew what they were doing for years, but didn't prosecute until they started charging money.
Riding a Rhino is safer so we Ride a Hippo for Adventure!
~Bobobobo BO-bobo~
PS: I am a big fan of kittens:love:
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Not much time to pontificate, but…
I went and checked out the DBZ serialization, and frankly, I'm surprised OP is being forced into a "Teen" demographic outside of using the "T" label to make attract people because it's "not for kids".
DBZ is rated "A" for all ages, though there's still massive destruction and people losing limbs, getting blown up, smashed to pieces and whatnot; there's even "juices", as well as minor blood.
Since OP doesn't have much blood anyway, or at least, it's not as gruesome as in Kenshin, Hunter x Hunter, Bleach or Naruto, some editing couldn't hurt. Blood could still be used for Crocodile's defeat because, as I said earlier, just the excessive squirting and pouring of blood seem to be deemed "inappropriate" for a general audience. Since the Strawhats never have anything along the lines of drunken boxing, and they're never drunk, all alcohol could simply be written out of the series. I mean, Viz has already done that with sexual innuendos, which is apparently more taboo for children than blood, beer, and bullets. I wonder why... >.>;;
Aside from attracting people with the cool "T" rating, I think OP's only rated as such because it has a number of factors, the least of which is blood. Keeping OP at a "T" rating only hurts its market potential, especially now that I've seen what Viz's editing of DBZ deems to be appropriate for all ages.
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I have a show on video games at my school that I talk about anything about video games. Recently I did a report on the ESRB and found out that the only games rated AO are games with extreme sexual content. Including hentai, and games for the PC.
So Sex is still taboo here in America well violence is still acceptable. Jack Thompson is trying to stop both.
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wow…this thread has gone totally off topic.
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Without contrast, your opinion isn't entirely your own; it's partially influenced by Viz. I thought FUNi's original DBZ was done really well, too; then I saw the original Japanese, followed by FUNi's mid-Freeza saga dub.
I don't understand. I don't like the 4kids dub because it edits stuff out. The manga doesn't have voices, and they kept in the blood, cigarettes, alchohol and toned down the swearing. I'm not bribed by Viz or anything…what do you mean?
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wow…this thread has gone totally off topic.
Only slightly, because American dispositions tie in with Viz edits. Your post is utter spam, though. ;)
I don't understand. I don't like the 4kids dub because it edits stuff out. The manga doesn't have voices, and they kept in the blood, cigarettes, alchohol and toned down the swearing. I'm not bribed by Viz or anything…what do you mean?
If you were totally unaware of an online One Piece community, or the existence of Anime as a medium (not genre) of entertainment, would you still hate the OP dub? Possibly, but if so, that would be most likey for a different reason, such as considering a pirate story stupid, not because of what you recognize as edits.
This is 4Kids entire campaign with Americanization; they're betting their money kids are too stupid to go online and find out about the existence of "Anime". Said enlightened kids need not have to like what they find; the simple knowledge of realizing their material is edited is enough to possibly warrant a loss of interest.
When I was young, I didn't know the action sequences of Power Rangers were done in Japan. Heck, I didn't know that until late last year. Without watching movies like Godzilla or going online for research, there was no reason why I should have thought anything other than "Power Rangers is a 100% American show".
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Wait, if 4Kids thought that kids are too stupid to go on the Internet. Then why did Kahn just make his statement about kids don't read and only watch TV or go on the Internet?
They probably think kids are stupid in general.
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I just got my (American) Monthly SJ yesterday & to my disgust, they completely fudged up Luffy's line to Nami after Arlong's defeat!!!!
It now reads "Nami…..........YOU ARE ONE OF US NOW!!!"
instead of
"Nami.........YOU ARE MY NAKAMA(/Friend).
Am I the only one who is ticked off by this?
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Wow, I think I'm going to go and kill someone now
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…..
..I'm gonna have to go with "yes." Yes, you're the only one. You scare me.
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Kill Gozar.
Old school lurker.
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Actually, that sounds like a darn fine translation, to me. You weren't expecting they'd keep "nakama," were you? "You're my shipmate" or "You're my friend" doesn't sound as fierce as Luffy's deliverance of the line, and the simplicity of "Nami!!! Omae wa ore no nakama da!!!!" (forgive me if I messed up there) … seems intact. Whether it's a correct translation or not, I like it.
Except for the "smash to smithereens" bit in last month's Jump, which to me seemed a little forced, I think Viz has done an excellent job on Arlong.
If and when they start editing the manga meaningfully (ala, anything not related to name changes), THEN call me and we can be pissy together. 'Kay?
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well they can't really use the word "nakama" because it's a Japan word… unless they explained what it means
"Nami, you are my friend!" doesn't really have the same feeling as, "Nami, you are my nakama!"
I think "Nami, you are one of us now!" works just fine O_o;
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Originally Posted by Battle Franky
Bad move, bub!
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Yeah, but, erm, it's not THAT big of a deal. Isn't "nakama" "one of us"?
It's STILL lame, but not as bad as Luffy's "Darn you!"s at Mihawk or "I'll pay you back in kisses!"
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Never watch 4kids then or you might suffer from permanent self-ignition.
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Another worthwhile thread!
What did you expect? Buy the tankos and read the translations if you're a purist.
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I think he's going to go Super Sayin >_>
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"You are one of us" Okay. Not lame
"I'll pay you back in kisses" A little girl saying "I'll pay you back with my body" is "politically incorrect". Bellemare should say "I'll pay you back with my body" instend.
"Darn you! Mihawk" That's bothers me same as "Curse you, Arlong". Viz, come one add swearing and some sexual refrance -
It slipped under a mod's radar, so forgive me for bringing it up, but: hilarious. I'd make this a sig if it didn't make me seem like a troll. No offense, Gozar.
Well, if you're not going to sig it, then what's the point in reading it? Seems kind of lackadaisical (sp?) to me…
Robin Stjernberg: You think I'm going to let that remark slip? Honestly? You're right. =/
Edit: To clarify, killing is a bad, bad thing. But in this context, as a joke, I don't see any harm. If you'd said it in another fashion, then yeah, there would be sparks. Not like you did.
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Point in reading it? Quoting it, you mean? Because it was the funniest post I've seen in a pretty long time.
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Hey. That's not too bad of a translation. It still feels like there is something strong behind it.
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ooo, it's one of those people who hate those "bad" translations because it's cool and seemingly "on the bandwagon"
here's a question..
what the fuck did you expect? -
This post is deleted!
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Yeah, "you are one of us now" is fine. I honestly can't think of anything in English that's better.
Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible. - Frank Zappa
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I have to agree, "Your one of us" is better then "Beee mmmyyy ffffrrrriiiieenndd!!!"
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Yeah, "you are one of us now" is fine. I honestly can't think of anything in English that's better.
Honestly, I kind of like this better than most of the alternatives.
This puts the focus on her belonging with the crew, all of who care about her, rather than her just being Luffy's _____. Using "You're my Navigator!", for instance, means he values her more as a navigator than a person whether that's the intent or not. Even "You're my friend!" puts the focus on Luffy and Nami, but this rendition brings up the fact that all of them fought for her.
Personally, I'm more interested as to how they rendered the name of a certain town in the dialogue box that introduced it, provided that they had the usual three chapters. I haven't received my copy yet.
Complicating things since 2009.
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At first I thought it sounded kind of evil, like something Arlong would say, but it really isn't that bad. Not like I care, stopped buying SJ a long time ago.
