maybe not a tenryuubito but they could do the same they did with wapol
General 'Four Emperors' Discussion
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maybe not a tenryuubito but they could do the same they did with wapol
If you could beat a Yonkou you could become a King wherever you please with or without the government's blessing.
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Hmmm, TBH, I think the WG probably could quickly overwhelm a Yonko if they were REALLY trying, despite what happened with Whitebeard. I highly doubt that the Navy is the WG's only fighting force; if they were really trying, they would be able to pull together fighters from all of their allied nations to make a formidable army. Obviously they would have to be desperate to do it (considering the effort and expenses involved) but I don't think it's wise to underestimate the WG because of the Whitebeard War. Remember, they're the World Government!
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There were several factors that made the battle more strenous for the marines. The impel down party including Luffy, 2 shichibukai, Ivankov, ect were a big boost for WB and of course the marines were 2 shichibukai short. Hancock worked more against the marines than the WB pirates. Then Garp was having a personal conflict and ended up doing very little. Then Blackeard came along and caused even more trouble. WB would not have lasted much longer anyways. If it wasn't BB that finished him off it would have been the remaining admirals. So it was really marines vs WB crew+ID party+Hancock+Blackbeard pirates. The balance of power doesn't take any other parties aside from the 4 yonkou+allied crews into account.
Also the WG encompasses various marine branches, kingdom armies, Cp9, Impel down staff, and probably even shichibukai crews. Why the WG chose to not have the crews of the Shichibukai also join their efforts is strange but they definitey factor into the WG's strength. The marines at HQ knew there were going to be heavy losses, but they had a very small chance of being wiped out unlike the WB pirates.
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I would actually further reduce the Shichibukai from 7-5-4
Blackbeard was fighting the Marines.
Hancock was fighting both sides….
only Donflamigo, Mihawk, Kuma and Moria were contributing.And he killed Whitebeard, so he helped the Marines in a way.
And Hancock did her job of defeating pirates like she was supposed to. If you stretch it really, really, really hard, she contributed in a way to the Marines. -
And he killed Whitebeard, so he helped the Marines in a way.
but he fought against them too. Infact he made things worse for the Marines than finishing off a man on verge of death.
So its more to the fact that he should be considered another party or just more against the marines. -
But he accomplished the Marines' Goal. Once Whitebeard died, the war ended and the Marines won. Before WB's death, he was technically doing what the Marines wanted him to do.
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yeah but i was calculating the "stronges" marins and not which happened at the war. Ususually there would be 7 schichibukau who should all have killer intent :/ And why doesnt Kong count? He is / was a marine and didnt look any ill or weak compared to his fleet admiral time. And dont think that WB or Shanks could just haki all marines down. It knocks weaklings down like the fishmans but at marineford only the elite were there(atleast that was told us) and btw weaklings dont count in such a war. Just look at mihawk. He just sliced that fuckign frozen tsunami with his basic attack down. Now image he would be bloodlusted ? He would have killed the entire whitebard pirates with a few swordswings exept the top fighters. Its just seems as the marines and schichibukai didnt fight to their full potential with many of their guys just chilling in corners while the whitebeards did everything they could and still were no match if luffy would not have come with an army of strong fighters including 2 ex schichibukais, ivan(schichi level) and turning some of the marines even more down to uselessness like hancock and garp. Its just crazy to think that the whitebeard pirates would have stood any chance.
Yes healthy WB would have killed them all but he was not healthy so it doesnt matterYour forgetting that the fodder WB pirates and Fodder Marines pretty much neutralized eachother,while the bigger players on each side allowed the battle to flow in their direction at different times.As well as strategy and environment.
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Big Mom will be Luffy's Crocodile of the New World.
Bank it.
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Applesauce explained pretty much how a lot of people view the world government + 7 shichi against 7 yonkou balance.
However during the war, I would go so far as to say white beard would have been in an even worse position if the government planned to fake Ace's execution, Garp would have been way more active in the war inside of waiting around Ace the whole time. Had the government focused more on trapping and killing white beard than trying to kill ace, the white beard pirates would have been defeated so much quicker and probably kept his body away from black beard.
When the government attempted to kill ace they lost about 100+ fighters from luffy's haki burst, which in result gave the WB & NW pirates an moral boost. Plus Garp didn't fight, or at least not as much as he could have, which was a stupid move on the governments side; They shouldn't have ignored how much love he could have felt for someone he considered like a son & family.
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@gotta<3OP:
Hmmm, never said anything against that. It's just that, while we can't actually say that Shanks is stronger, we can actually say he didn't get any weaker from losing an arm. And it does gives you the title of the strongest of one of the 4 strongest crews. And if that doesn't get you to the top 4 strongest PIRATES it gets you close.
Newp, I'll clarify myself because that is exactly my point. They're equals. Mihawk won the last battle they had. I don't think that makes him the strongest, it makes him equal to Shanks, just that.
I'm simply going from a more meta perspective of story-telling devices, while you are going for nonexistent fights.
We actually know that Shanks:
Is equal to Mihawk.
Somehow stopped Kaidou.
Can easily block an injured admiral.
Got a scar from BlackBeard.
And we know that Mihawk:
Is better than any swordsman.
Cuts ships like butter.
Fights newbs with pendants.
Can't cut diamond from faraway, atleast when he isn't trying to do so.I can't use this data to compare Whitebeard and Shanks. And much less an Admiral and Shanks.
You**'re**!!!!
At least insult me correctly, please.
And you're still taking that up your ass. A single person cannot become an Yonkou. Who knows? Know one tried. I know that Yonkou is a title given to a person. Obviously one who holds territory… And rulles over people. They're emperors... But it's still an individual rank. And don't forget. Pirates do not rulle over people. Before that they rulle over other pirates. They have to be STRONG themselves, otherwise that crew you praise so much wouldn't submit to him.
And how can someone weaker than an Admiral, with a crew of people weaker than an admiral is one of the 5 biggest threats to the world government?It wasn't said, but aside from Non-agression pacts, how else would war between them be avoided if not by similar powerlevels (of the crew as a whole)?
Whitebeard had troubles against Akainu. But don't forget he was sick, and had a hole through his chest... That must not be forgoten....
And the Admirals have feats such as? Winning against commanders worrying for their dying captains? Huge effect on environment? Impaling someone who gave you their back to protect his brother? Other than that, it's Aokiji owning the Straw Hats.
I don't see anything relevant. I'd think that 10 days of slashes like those of WB vs Shanks would do some damage to the environment...You misunderstood.
The marines think the Mugiwara and other 'small' crews are a threat to them. But it's like comparing a local gangster with Al Caeda. Obviously as the series goes the local gangster will become more dangerous than the Alcaeda, but you get my point.
The WG thinks of Luffy as a FUTURE threat, and tries to capture and kill him as soon as possible. When the know where he is, they send battleships to catch him.
When the marines know where Shanks or Whitebeard his, they send SCOUTS, just so they would know if the two joined forces.
If the Marines had 4 soldiers stronger than Shanks. If the found where shanks was, why wouldn't they launch a full on attack against him?
I believe that the 4 of them could deal with it no problem... Or do you think Ben Beckam, Yasopp and Lucky Roo would also last 10 days against an admiral? Even if they did, with good tactics, the 4 admirals would neve be alone, and could simply deal with one fighter at a time. They would go down pretty quickly with the 4 of them focusing fire on one... And since no one is stronger than them, it would be a sure win. They could be tired at the end, but if they managed to go back in silence, it would've been a sucessful victory. :3Yup Yup except in the last 2 years the government has been trying to regain control of the New World... Guess what? They're still failling (none of the Yonkou's went down). obviously there isn't a single person in there stronger than an Admiral. (Shank's, the strongest, is weaker).
Quoting Garp:
The marines cannot take on two legends at the same time.
He was talking about Rayleagh. I don't want to argue if Rayleagh is stronger than Shanks. But this does crush your argument that a single person couldn't do a shit at the war. Garp does not think that way. :3And C'mon. Blackbeard was hit by two blows from WhiteBeard too. He got cut and then quaked in the head. Vista and Marco didn't have an effect on Akainu, he regenerated immediately…
Being a Yonkou Literary means you hold the power of the most powerful Pirate Crew in the World. But as an Individual Captain your not the 4 Strongest "Captains in the World." Sure it gets you Close but how close I believe it Varies Greatly Like that of Between the Shichibukai.
Lets see the Feats of WB, Admirals,Blackbeard, Mihawk, and Shanks.
Whitebeard Was Able to defeat an Admiral with extreme Difficulty…He had a Serious Illness, Injury before even fighting. His still WB, he was Literary Fighting Everyone and Tanking them. He pretty much has no Living Equal. So at least we know that WB was able to beat an Admiral Being the strongest man in the world that shouldn't be a Surprise even in the state that he was in. Now in this state WB was Able to Defeat BB like he was a Child. Someone that Shanks Acknowledges as a Great threat. Someone who was able scar Shanks when he was Serious, While he had 2 arms. This is around the time he was having his Legendary duals with Mihawk Because Shanks Mentions them Together. And Whitebeard Mentions all that happened 22 years ago. That young Blackbeard didn't even have any Devil Fruit ability back then.
All Admirals are Equals, since their fights take so long to decide the Victor, and both sides receive fatal injuries. One of them is bond to win, but their Equals regardless. Akainu melted Whitebeards Face in half, melted his insides TWICE, deflected some off his attacks and got back up from a Severe WB Thrashing, Who continued to go on a killing spree against WB commanders Alone, Taking down Crueil in the Process, Injuring Luffy and Jinbe as well. Brushing off Hits from Marco and Vista From the injured state that he was in like they were annoying pest.
Sengoku was Taking on BB, now this time not only does he have Yami Yami No Mi, but also WB ability. Sengoku was able injure BB with this much increase in power. While BB couldn't harm him. A Fruitless, young BB was able harm a serious 2 armed Shanks.Blackbeard was Able to Scar Shanks who had his guard up. His Someone who Shanks See's as a Great Threat long before he made his move. He had a tough battle with Ace, got 1 shotted from Magellan,(who was beaten off screen later) but with a power up from WB's ability he was able to hold his own against Sengoku.
Mihawk Pretty much is Shanks Equal Counterpart. Who is Currently the Greatest Swordsman. Mihawk Acknowledges that he wishes to see just how far he is from WB when he sends his Slash at him. Slashed a mountain Sized Ice berg in half unintentionally. Mihawk Was being Blocked by Vista who was just a annoyance to Akainu. Mihawk wasn't able to hurt Jozu. Now after all this said. I do not believe that Mihawk went all out during the War, What we will See from Mihawk in Future will be far more epic. But I'm Basing this off of what has been given to us so far and not by speculating.
Shanks is a Yonkou, Mihawks equal as an Individual Fighter, Exchanged a Slash with WB, Blocked an injured Akainu's attack targeted at someone else. Ended The War. Received a scar from BB with 0 devil fruits. stopped Kaido. The Yonkou are never said to be Equals, Their strength Especially the Individual captains strength may vary greatly just like the Shichibukai.
So with the Feats that I have mentioned above, Shanks Feats don't even come close to being greater than or equal to what the Admirals have Shown. We don't know what Shanks is Capable of so far, But we have Some people whom he is being compared to that allows us to compare and contrast his Level of Strength like Mihawk and Blackbeard.A single person by himself without allies or support cannot be a Yonkou. I gave you the Example of Whitebeard. Who was the strongest man in the world, but had the Title of a Yonkou because of his Allies and support. Yonkou Means 4 EMPERORS..... Emperors are people who rule ovre people, have subjects and claim lands. I know this title is given to an individual because of his ALLIES. Without that his just Rayleigh or Mihawk.
A Yonkou doesn't have to be strong enough to defeat an Admiral to be a Threat to the World government. Like i said in my previous post Being a Threat to World government Doesn't have to be about Individual Strength or Power. WB Is the Strongest in the World yet Dragon is a Greater threat. Just Because Yonkou are the most powerful Pirate crews in the world doesn't mean their captains have to be capable of defeating an Admiral. THEY ARE SAFE IN THE NEW WORLD.(well with Akainu in charge now it will change). The WG has No Authority their. The Yonkou Rule their. Akainu even says something along the lines during the war that go back to your safe New world to the WB Commanders. Sending the Admirals after an entire Yonkou Fleet in their own territory is Retarded why would the Navy do that.
The Yonkou aren't the only threat to the WG, there is a more threatening force to the WG who is Dragon/Revolutionaries.
Than there are Thousands of Pirates Fodders and Hundreds of Worthy and capable and Threatening Pirates and a Handful of Serious contenders who may be capable of giving a Yonkou a tough time and in the near future even take such a title.
The World government has to be capable of dealing with all of this.They have to be as powerful as I'm suggesting in order for them to stabilize the world from chaos.Also they cannot leave some of the post they have set up in the world or else Pirates or Revolutionaries will take advantage and take over.
The Marines cannot simply send their entire force or even half to deal with the 1 or 2 yonkou in the New World when they have so much to look after.
Perfect Example is Whitebeard. They brought him out instead of going in.And Rayliegh coming alone would be raped too. All he could do was hold off 1 Admiral, With Aokiji Free he would get raped just like how shanks would, had he come alone.
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we have an almost total lack of info on kaidou as a yonkou + oda sensei hasnt elaborated too much on a lot of the going ons around the OP world
the only info we have got is about G5 being shifted and aokiji out of WG due to his spat with f*ckin akainu
Big mam is gonna be so pissed cant wait for her to go ona rampage …...
whats gonna happen to the vivre card lola gave SH........
Buggy for shichibukai!!!!!!
NW is the best place ever!!!!
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@Wh@ck5Ter:
whats gonna happen to the vivre card lola gave SH….....
It will lead the Straw Hats to Big Mom.
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It will lead the Straw Hats to Big Mom.
maybe i but i dont think any of the straw hats realize who that vivre card belongs to or if they do its hasnt been mentioned yet…...
and i dont think big mam would ever help ...... coz she doesnt strike me as a person of character......
but she does seem to have this thing like WB did of having sons or maybe she's the real mom (shudders)
Buggy for shichibukai!!!!!!
NW is the best place ever!!!!
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@Wh@ck5Ter:
the only info we have got is about G5 being shifted and aokiji out of WG due to his spat with f*ckin akainu
wrong, G1 was the one shifted with marineford, G5 was and still is in the new world.
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@Wh@ck5Ter:
maybe i but i dont think any of the straw hats realize who that vivre card belongs to or if they do its hasnt been mentioned yet…...
and i dont think big mam would ever help ...... coz she doesnt strike me as a person of character......
but she does seem to have this thing like WB did of having sons or maybe she's the real mom (shudders)
I don't think that this vivre card still exists…too many stuff happened (seperation of the crew,each crew member strugle to become stronger etc)
its pretty easy to lose it...especialy with luffy being there :ninja: -
I don't think that this vivre card still exists…too many stuff happened (seperation of the crew,each crew member strugle to become stronger etc)
its pretty easy to lose it...especialy with luffy being there :ninja:You could easily say the same thing about the One Ace, or even Shakky/Rayleigh gave them, but it was never lost..Luffy left his hat with the vivre card just sitting on a rock for 2 years on an island that changes seasons ever week, it never blew away or got lost?
When Lola gave them the vivre card, it was Nami who took it to hold on to right? There's no way she lost it. -
yeah…... and even so i dont think that the story would have such a missing piece..... its there for a reason........ vivre cards are indesctructible except for....well ...the person its pointing to dying.......in which case *POOF goes the paper
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@nodensuke:
You could easily say the same thing about the One Ace, or even Shakky/Rayleigh gave them, but it was never lost..Luffy left his hat with the vivre card just sitting on a rock for 2 years on an island that changes seasons ever week, it never blew away or got lost?
When Lola gave them the vivre card, it was Nami who took it to hold on to right? There's no way she lost it.But theres a difference with the vivre card of ace and rayleigh and lola's.Ace was Luffy's brother and Rayleigh the vice-captain of the pirate king's crew.Also rayleigh was supposed to work with sunny so in order to find their ship they had to find rayleigh.
While lola is one more person that they get to be friends with.Also Luffy puts the vivre cards of Ace/Rayleigh to his hat…which is his treasure
I think lola gave her vivre card to Nami too but it still would seem a little weird to me if she still has it -
But theres a difference with the vivre card of ace and rayleigh and lola's.Ace was Luffy's brother and Rayleigh the vice-captain of the pirate king's crew.Also rayleigh was supposed to work with sunny so in order to find their ship they had to find rayleigh.
While lola is one more person that they get to be friends with.Also Luffy puts the vivre cards of Ace/Rayleigh to his hat…which is his treasure
I think lola gave her vivre card to Nami too but it still would seem a little weird to me if she still has itIt's not lola's vivrecard, it's her mom's one. Her mom who is said to be a great pirate from the new world.
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Why woudn't she still have it? you think she just threw it out one day? Lola gave it to them telling them to look for her mom in the NW, They're now in the NW. Each vivre card has been a major plot point so far, why would this one just get lost?
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It's not lola's vivrecard, it's her mom's one. Her mom who is said to be a great pirate from the new world.
Yes thats what I mean
But I don't think that a great pirate that luffy hasn't even met has a special treatment…I mean that for Luffy its just one more pirateEDIT:
Why woudn't she still have it? you think she just threw it out one day? Lola gave it to them telling them to look for her mom in the NW, They're now in the NW. Each vivre card has been a major plot point so far, why would this one just get lost?
Not threw it…but lost it since TOO MUCH stuff happened since then.The vivre card probably is still with Nami...and we will probably see that vivre card in some time...but it will still seem a little weird for me
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I don't think that this vivre card still exists…too many stuff happened (seperation of the crew,each crew member strugle to become stronger etc)
its pretty easy to lose it...especialy with luffy being there :ninja:Or the most obvious scenario is it being kept in a safe drawer in Nami's bedroom.
Oda doesn't introduce little things like that and then forget about them. How many years was it between Ace giving Luffy some piece of paper, to us finding out just what its purpose was? -
Yes thats what I mean
But I don't think that a great pirate that luffy hasn't even met has a special treatment…I mean that for Luffy its just one more pirateEDIT:
Not threw it...but lost it since TOO MUCH stuff happened since then.The vivre card probably is still with Nami...and we will probably see that vivre card in some time...but it will still seem a little weird for me
Don't get me wrong, I do agree with them being through a lot since they got the vivre card, but to me, each time they got a vivre card they went through alot afterwards. Hers and the one they got from Shakky/Rayleigh pretty much went through the same thing, and the one Luffy had made it out fine.
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Or the most obvious scenario is it being kept in a safe drawer in Nami's bedroom.
Oda doesn't introduce little things like that and then forget about them. How many years was it between Ace giving Luffy some piece of paper, to us finding out just what its purpose was?years?no
a long time?yes
probably you are right about lola's vivre card though -
Yes thats what I mean
But I don't think that a great pirate that luffy hasn't even met has a special treatment…I mean that for Luffy its just one more pirateYou have to look at it from the author's point of view. Why has Oda given them that vivrecard if it won't be mentioned ever again? it's quite obvious Lola's mom will play a role later on the story. It could a supportive role, and important role or aminor role, but oda isn't gonna drop the plot point he has already introduced. I mean, look at laboon, he wasn't that important to the plot back in the beggining of the grand line?
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You have to look at it from the author's point of view. Why has Oda given them that vivrecard if it won't be mentioned ever again? it's quite obvious Lola's mom will play a role later on the story. It could a supportive role, and important role or aminor role, but oda isn't gonna drop the plot point he has already introduced. I mean, look at laboon, he wasn't that important to the plot back in the beggining of the grand line?
true…Oda is a genius in these stuff...but maybe he did it to troll us :ninja:
but as I said before I do believe that the vivre card has a role and we will see it again...it will just seem a little weird to me
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oh, but he always can get us trolled either way.
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years?no
a long time?yes
probably you are right about lola's vivre card thoughHe (presumably) means years in real-time, not OP-time.
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in terms of trolling i font think he needs needs to do anything….. we're trolling ourselves and each other anyway
and vivre cards do not get lost especially in stories as epic this......
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Being a Yonkou Literary means you hold the power of the most powerful Pirate Crew in the World. But as an Individual Captain your not the 4 Strongest "Captains in the World." Sure it gets you Close but how close I believe it Varies Greatly Like that of Between the Shichibukai.
Lets see the Feats of WB, Admirals,Blackbeard, Mihawk, and Shanks.
Whitebeard Was Able to defeat an Admiral with extreme Difficulty…He had a Serious Illness, Injury before even fighting. His still WB, he was Literary Fighting Everyone and Tanking them. He pretty much has no Living Equal. So at least we know that WB was able to beat an Admiral Being the strongest man in the world that shouldn't be a Surprise even in the state that he was in. Now in this state WB was Able to Defeat BB like he was a Child. Someone that Shanks Acknowledges as a Great threat. Someone who was able scar Shanks when he was Serious, While he had 2 arms. This is around the time he was having his Legendary duals with Mihawk Because Shanks Mentions them Together. And Whitebeard Mentions all that happened 22 years ago. That young Blackbeard didn't even have any Devil Fruit ability back then.
All Admirals are Equals, since their fights take so long to decide the Victor, and both sides receive fatal injuries. One of them is bond to win, but their Equals regardless. Akainu melted Whitebeards Face in half, melted his insides TWICE, deflected some off his attacks and got back up from a Severe WB Thrashing, Who continued to go on a killing spree against WB commanders Alone, Taking down Crueil in the Process, Injuring Luffy and Jinbe as well. Brushing off Hits from Marco and Vista From the injured state that he was in like they were annoying pest.
Sengoku was Taking on BB, now this time not only does he have Yami Yami No Mi, but also WB ability. Sengoku was able injure BB with this much increase in power. While BB couldn't harm him. A Fruitless, young BB was able harm a serious 2 armed Shanks.Blackbeard was Able to Scar Shanks who had his guard up. His Someone who Shanks See's as a Great Threat long before he made his move. He had a tough battle with Ace, got 1 shotted from Magellan,(who was beaten off screen later) but with a power up from WB's ability he was able to hold his own against Sengoku.
Mihawk Pretty much is Shanks Equal Counterpart. Who is Currently the Greatest Swordsman. Mihawk Acknowledges that he wishes to see just how far he is from WB when he sends his Slash at him. Slashed a mountain Sized Ice berg in half unintentionally. Mihawk Was being Blocked by Vista who was just a annoyance to Akainu. Mihawk wasn't able to hurt Jozu. Now after all this said. I do not believe that Mihawk went all out during the War, What we will See from Mihawk in Future will be far more epic. But I'm Basing this off of what has been given to us so far and not by speculating.
Shanks is a Yonkou, Mihawks equal as an Individual Fighter, Exchanged a Slash with WB, Blocked an injured Akainu's attack targeted at someone else. Ended The War. Received a scar from BB with 0 devil fruits. stopped Kaido. The Yonkou are never said to be Equals, Their strength Especially the Individual captains strength may vary greatly just like the Shichibukai.
So with the Feats that I have mentioned above, Shanks Feats don't even come close to being greater than or equal to what the Admirals have Shown. We don't know what Shanks is Capable of so far, But we have Some people whom he is being compared to that allows us to compare and contrast his Level of Strength like Mihawk and Blackbeard.A single person by himself without allies or support cannot be a Yonkou. I gave you the Example of Whitebeard. Who was the strongest man in the world, but had the Title of a Yonkou because of his Allies and support. Yonkou Means 4 EMPERORS..... Emperors are people who rule ovre people, have subjects and claim lands. I know this title is given to an individual because of his ALLIES. Without that his just Rayleigh or Mihawk.
A Yonkou doesn't have to be strong enough to defeat an Admiral to be a Threat to the World government. Like i said in my previous post Being a Threat to World government Doesn't have to be about Individual Strength or Power. WB Is the Strongest in the World yet Dragon is a Greater threat. Just Because Yonkou are the most powerful Pirate crews in the world doesn't mean their captains have to be capable of defeating an Admiral. THEY ARE SAFE IN THE NEW WORLD.(well with Akainu in charge now it will change). The WG has No Authority their. The Yonkou Rule their. Akainu even says something along the lines during the war that go back to your safe New world to the WB Commanders. Sending the Admirals after an entire Yonkou Fleet in their own territory is Retarded why would the Navy do that.
The Yonkou aren't the only threat to the WG, there is a more threatening force to the WG who is Dragon/Revolutionaries.
Than there are Thousands of Pirates Fodders and Hundreds of Worthy and capable and Threatening Pirates and a Handful of Serious contenders who may be capable of giving a Yonkou a tough time and in the near future even take such a title.
The World government has to be capable of dealing with all of this.They have to be as powerful as I'm suggesting in order for them to stabilize the world from chaos.Also they cannot leave some of the post they have set up in the world or else Pirates or Revolutionaries will take advantage and take over.
The Marines cannot simply send their entire force or even half to deal with the 1 or 2 yonkou in the New World when they have so much to look after.
Perfect Example is Whitebeard. They brought him out instead of going in.And Rayliegh coming alone would be raped too. All he could do was hold off 1 Admiral, With Aokiji Free he would get raped just like how shanks would, had he come alone.
i'm not in a state to go over this, but your logic is flawed. You're giving things value that haven't been properly reviewed, like when shank's actually got the scar from BB would give a good idea of how strong they where when it happened. Your reason was "he mentioned them together". Just saying. We haven't any actual idea when it happened or under what circumstances was he serious.
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i'm not in a state to go over this, but your logic is flawed. You're giving things value that haven't been properly reviewed, like when shank's actually got the scar from BB would give a good idea of how strong they where when it happened. Your reason was "he mentioned them together". Just saying. We haven't any actual idea when it happened or under what circumstances was he serious.
True. However, we are being given an example by Oda himself that Shanks is at closer level to Blackbeard than and even now. we can interpret that scene in many ways to fit our side of the argument. Regardless how times of changed, because that's what we have to go by, Both of them obviously got Stronger, yet Shanks is still worried about him and WB humiliates him.
However my point of this whole discussion is to prove that Whitebeard cannot be used to compare the individual strength of the Yonkou. Also what causes me to post about this topic over and over again is because people bring up Power level Discussion and place a Yonkou "The Individual captain" first over an Admiral which is Insane in my opinion. The Feats of Admirals far Surpass anyone who isn't WB. We are certain none of them are as strong as WB because we can compare and contrast Shanks to Mihawk. Also we don't know much about Big Mom or Kaido but most of us can certainly agree that both of them are Weaker than Shanks. The Yonkou Individual Strength may vary greatly like that of the Shichibukai. WB and Shanks didn't wipe them out is because they are obviously pirates with different goals. And being in the New World they are Safe from the World Government main forces. YONKOU are extremely overrated. -
I recall putting you on my ignore list because of that very discussion and after deciding to change it back, I come here to see that you still hold onto your stubborn opinion. Don't worry- I have no intention of repeating my arguments so I'll just say that I simply can't wait to see your reaction when a single Yonkou beats the shit out of your holy admirals. :-)
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True. However, we are being given an example by Oda himself that Shanks is at closer level to Blackbeard than and even now. we can interupt that scene in many ways to fit our side of the argument. Regardless how times of changed, because that's what we have to go by, Both of them obviously got Stronger, yet Shanks is still worried about him and WB humiliates him.
However my point of this whole discussion is to prove that Whitebeard cannot be used to compare the individual strength of the Yonkou. Also what causes me to post about this topic over and over again is because people bring up Power level Discussion and place a Yonkou "The Individual captain" first over an Admiral which is Insane in my opinion. The Feats of Admirals far Surpass anyone who isn't WB. We are certain none of them are as strong as WB because we can compare and contrast Shanks to Mihawk. Also we don't know much about Big Mom or Kaido but most of us can certainly agree that both of them are Weaker than Shanks. The Yonkou Individual Strength may vary greatly like that of the Shichibukai. WB and Shanks didn't wipe them out is because they are obviously pirates with different goals. And being in the New World they are Safe from the World Government main forces. YONKOU are extremely overrated.And how exactly does this mean that an Admiral > Big Mom or Kaido?
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Because Kaido is being compared to Moria, Shanks is able to get past him rather easily, Shanks is Mihawks Equal, Regardless how times have changed. The little information we have about them shows us where their Individual level of Strength falls into. Being a Yonkou isn't about being the Strongest in the world but about haveing the most powerful Crew and Allies. Being a Yonkou doesn't give the Individual captain the title of the Strongest in world. The Feats of Admirals who are able to fight the Worlds Strongest Man while inflicting fatal injuries to him far exceeds what other Yonkou or their Equal counterparts have so far shown.
Could Shanks or Mihawk defeat an Admiral, I believe they can, but it will be an extremely close battle. However like i said before in my opinion The Admirals have the edge because their feats are greater.Edit: this is not about me defending my favorite characters. I'm trying to get most of you guys who have a misunderstanding on this matter to be rid of that. Yonkou are Extremely overestimated. People judge each Yonkou to be as individual strong as Whitebeard when they are clearly not.
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As soon as you use the term 'feats' to back opinion,your argument becomes invalid.This isn't outskirts battle dome.
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@Baou:
As soon as you use the term 'feats' to back opinion,your argument becomes invalid.This isn't outskirts battle dome.
Feats= Hype, Titles, Status, Actual fights, and Achievements; nope it doesn't discredit my opinion in anyway it only reinforces it.
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Because Kaido is being compared to Moria, Shanks is able to get past him rather easily, Shanks is Mihawks Equal, Regardless how times have changed.
1. you don't know how strong moriah was in the past
2. you don't know how strong kaido was in the past
3. The fact that moriah fought kaido doesn't mean they are/were equally strong.The Feats of Admirals who are able to fight the Worlds Strongest Man while inflicting fatal injuries to him far exceeds what other Yonkou or their Equal counterparts have so far shown.
Could Shanks or Mihawk defeat an Admiral, I believe they can, but it will be an extremely close battle. However like i said before in my opinion The Admirals have the edge because their feats are greater.Other yonkous have shown so far nothing. Just because a bunch of characters have shown some amazing feats you can't say they are more powerful than others who hasn't had the chance to. I mean, following your logic you could say the three admirals are stronger than dragon, kong, sengoku, garp, the gorousei, roger, etc…
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1. you don't know how strong moriah was in the past
2. you don't know how strong kaido was in the past
3. The fact that moriah fought kaido doesn't mean they are/were equally strong.Other yonkous have shown so far nothing. Just because a bunch of characters have shown some amazing feats you can't say they are more powerful than others who hasn't had the chance to. I mean, following your logic you could say the three admirals are stronger than dragon, kong, sengoku, garp, the gorousei, roger, etc…
We don't know yet sure, but thats what we have been given. It doesn't matter how we speculate what happened. we have been given this information and we go by it. We don't know if Moria got weaker… But Oda established that they did fight equally.
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Wasn't already established before that the Admirals are the Greatest/strongest fighting force of the Marines.
And how would that Mean the Admirals are Stronger than Roger or WB…. WB and Roger were Equals and WB beat Akainu......I don't follow your logic. -
We don't know yet sure, but thats what we have been given. It doesn't matter how we speculate what happened. we have been given this information and we go by it. We don't know if Moria got weaker… But Oda established that they did fight equally.
! http://c.mhcdn.net/store/manga/106/50-483.0/compressed/OnePiece_483_pg06.jpg
I know kaido and moriah fought equally but how does that mean that shanks is stronger than kaido?
Wasn't already established before that the Admirals are the Greatest/strongest fighting force of the Marines.
And how would that Mean the Admirals are Stronger than Roger or WB…. WB and Roger were Equals and WB beat Akainu......I don't follow your logic.The rank admiral shares the title of "Greatest Military Power" of the marines. However garp was qualified to be an admiral, and kong and sengoku were also admirals.
Sorry about Roger, I forgot about him being whitebeard equal, lol. -
I know kaido and moriah fight equally but how does that mean that shanks is stronger than kaido?
To add to that in a way, they used to fight equally. We don't even know what happened bewtween Shanks and Kaido during/before the war either, who's to say Shanks didn't just talk him out of attacking white beard. I'm not convinced that any of the current Yonkou rank higher than the others in terms of power or who would win. We don't know anything about Kaido or Big Mom, we've barely seen Shanks other than clashing with White Beard and Akainu, and only seen Black Beard vs. Ace.
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I know kaido and moriah fought equally but how does that mean that shanks is stronger than kaido?
The rank admiral shares the title of "Greatest Military Power" of the marines. However garp was qualified to be an admiral, and kong and sengoku were also admirals.
Sorry about Roger, I forgot about him being whitebeard equal, lol.Shanks is Equal to Mihawk who is obviously stronger Moria. The difference in each Yonkou "might" be as great as in between the Shichibukai from what we can deduct with what has been given to us.
Never implied that Garp, or Sengoku would be weaker than the Admirals. Just trying to say that when people post there bullshit power ranking scales majority of the people place Yonkou even above an Admiral… Which doesn't make any sense with what has been given to us, Because when it comes to Feats, Only WB and Roger outclasses the Admirals. Shanks and Mihawk are understandable though. -
Shanks is Equal to Mihawk who is obviously stronger Moria.
look, this is right. And this other statement "kaido and moriah were equally strong in the past" is right too. But you can't relate something that has happened in the past with something that happens in the present.
You can't just assume this relation has kept true till the present just because is the only information oda has given us about kaido.
In my opinion, Oda put that satement abvout moriah being kaido equal in the past to give moriah a background and give us something to look forward to when they meet again,. I'm sure Oda's purpose wasn't to give us a measurement of kaido's strength.The difference in each Yonkou "might" be as great as in between the Shichibukai from what we can deduct with what has been given to us.
agree
Never implied that Garp, or Sengoku would be weaker than the Admirals. Just trying to say that when people post there bullshit power ranking scales majority of the people place Yonkou even above an Admiral… Which doesn't make any sense with what has been given to us, Because when it comes to Feats, Only WB and Roger outclasses the Admirals. Shanks and Mihawk are understandable though.
but what happens when a new character like big mom is introduced and the only feat we know about her is their title(yonkou in this case). Do you just assume the admirals have to be stronger?
Character A shows some amazing feats.
Charcter B shows some feats not as amazing as those form character A.
=> A>B? well, that seems to be the case, it's quite probable A is the stonger one.Character A shows some amazing feats.
Charcter C shows no feats.
=> A>C? fallacy. -
look, this is right. And this other statement "kaido and moriah were equally strong in the past" is right too. But you can't relate something that has happened in the past with something that happens in the present.
You can't just assume this relation has kept true till the present just because is the only information oda has given us about kaido.
In my opinion, Oda put that satement abvout moriah being kaido equal in the past to give moriah a background and give us something to look forward to when they meet again,. I'm sure Oda's purpose wasn't to give us a measurement of kaido's strength.Well, until we see that change in the present time, this is what we have been given. Kaido Obviously won that fight, so his clearly stronger. Just by how much needs to be seen.
but what happens when a new character like big mom is introduced and the only feat we know about her is their title(yonkou in this case). Do you just assume the admirals have to be stronger?
Character A shows some amazing feats.
Charcter B shows some feats not as amazing as those form character A.
=> A>B? well, that seems to be the case, it's quite probable A is the stonger one.Character A shows some amazing feats.
Charcter C shows no feats.
=> A>C? fallacy.We go by what has been given. If nothing or little is given, we use someone they are being compared to as measure of their strength. Big Mom has nothing going for her so far aside from her title as a Yonkou. If we can agree that The yonkou's Strength might vary greatly like that of between the shichibukai, than whats stopping us from speculating that WB, who was the Strongest man in the world who was seriously Damaged by a Admiral who gave him a really difficult fight. Shanks and Mihawk should be capable of defeating an Admiral but it would be a Match like that of Between Akainu and Aoikiji(personally I would give it to Admirals just because of Feats), Because they are Clearly not as Strong as WB, The people Shanks is being compared to openly admit they are behind WB(Mihawk) or that they are defeated quite easily(BB). So we can Speculate further that Big Mom and Kaido are the weaker Yonkou Compared to WB and Shanks because whom Kaido is being compared to (Moria), and Due to character Hype, Shanks is Obviously a HUGE name whose importance as a character is well established. we can guess that they are not as strong as Shanks and most of us would agree. If all this is True than I don't see an Admiral losing to Big Mom or Kaido.
Edit: Or we just wait 1 or 2 more years until Luffy Beats Big Mom and say, Luffy just beat a Yonkou and now he should be able to beat an Admiral…. I don't think so.
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Well, until we see that change in the present time, this is what we have been given. Kaido Obviously won that fight, so his clearly stronger. Just by how much needs to be seen.
fair enough
We go by what has been given. If nothing or little is given, we use someone they are being compared to as measure of their strength. Big Mom has nothing going for her so far aside from her title as a Yonkou. If we can agree that The yonkou's Strength might vary greatly like that of between the shichibukai, than whats stopping us from speculating that WB, who was the Strongest man in the world who was seriously Damaged by a Admiral who gave him a really difficult fight. Shanks and Mihawk should be capable of defeating an Admiral but it would be a Match like that of Between Akainu and Aoikiji(personally I would give it to Admirals just because of Feats), Because they are Clearly not as Strong as WB, The people Shanks is being compared to openly admit they are behind WB(Mihawk) or that they are defeated quite easily(BB). So we can Speculate further that Big Mom and Kaido are the weaker Yonkou Compared to WB and Shanks because whom Kaido is being compared to (Moria), and Due to character Hype, Shanks is Obviously a HUGE name whose importance as a character is well established. we can guess that they are not as strong as Shanks and most of us would agree. If all this is True than I don't see an Admiral losing to Big Mom or Kaido.
Edit: or we just wait 1 or 2 more years until Luffy Beats Big Mom and say, Luffy just beat a Yonkou he should be able to beat an Admiral now.I disagree with whitebeard being only slightly above akainu, his disease made him lose their first fight. And after ace's death, WB have already decided to die, so, in my opinion, he didn't care about avoiding that one attack.
WB being a lot stronger than akainu would mean the other yonkous, following your logic, have better chances against the admirals.
Besides that, I don't like this reasoning:
-A beats B
-B beats C
=> A beats C
Are battles decided only by strength? -
I disagree with whitebeard being only slightly above akainu, his disease made him lose their first fight. And after ace's death, WB have already decided to die, so, in my opinion, he didn't care about avoiding that one attack.
WB being a lot stronger than akainu would mean the other yonkous, following your logic, have better chances against the admirals.
Besides that, I don't like this reasoning:
-A beats B
-B beats C
=> A beats C
Are battles decided only by strength?WB was pretty much Handicapped from the start and I agree with you that caused him to suffer fatal injuries. But I wouldn't say WB didn't care about avoiding those attacks. Akainu gave him no chance to dodge them Properly. Had WB really stopped dodging his entire face would be gone. Also Akainu Came right back to fight the entire WB Commanders at Once in that Beaten state. Defeating Cruiel in the process and still Somehow injuring Jinbei and Luffy while The Commanders Watch. Making Marco and Vista look like annoying pests.
And how would other Yonkou's have a better chance against an Admiral by WB being a lot stronger than akainu??
WB separates himself from the other yonkou when it comes to Individual Strength due to WB being the only one Having two Titles. "The worlds Strongest Man" + Yonkou. WB cannot be used to determine the other individual Yonkou Strength, Because They do not share the Title of The Strongest in the World. As Individuals they are not Equal.
Edit: I don't know if the Gap between Akainu and WB is slight cause I've never said that. But what we saw from Akainu Vs. WB, WB didn't have it easy. WB Illness made things much worse for him, + his wounds from everyone else. Yet… Even in this state he was able to Pawn BB like he was nothing. This gives us more insight on how Shanks would fare against WB. Since Shanks is really Worried about BB whom he seriously wants to fight. Also that with BB gaining WB's fruit, he was still getting hit by Sengoku. While Sengoku received no damage. All this just shows how the Admirals Feats give them the edge over anyone else thats not WB. Until Shown otherwise.
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WB was pretty much Handicapped from the start and I agree with you that caused him to suffer fatal injuries. But I wouldn't say WB didn't care about avoiding those attacks. Akainu gave him no chance to dodge them Properly. Had WB really stopped dodging his entire face would be gone. Also Akainu Came right back to fight the entire WB Commanders at Once in that Beaten state. Defeating Cruiel in the process and still Somehow injuring Jinbei and Luffy while The Commanders Watch. Making Marco and Vista look like annoying pests.
And how would other Yonkou's have a better chance against an Admiral by WB being a lot stronger than akainu??
WB separates himself from the other yonkou when it comes to Individual Strength due to WB being the only one Having two Titles. "The worlds Strongest Man" + Yonkou. WB cannot be used to determine the other individual Yonkou Strength, Because They do not share the Title of The Strongest in the World. As Individuals they are not Equal.my point was that if the worlds strongest man (without handicaps) is stronger than an admiral, the other yonkous doesn't have to be weaker than the admirals just beacuse they are weaker than WB.
Edit: I don't know if the Gap between Akainu and WB is slight cause I've never said that. But From what we saw from Akainu Vs. WB, WB didn't have it easy. WB Illness made things much worse for him, + his wounds from everyone else. Yet… Even in this state he was able to Pawn BB like he was nothing. This gives us more insight on how Shanks would fare against WB. Since Shanks is really Worried about BB whom he seriously wants to fight. Also that with BB gaining WB's fruit, he was still getting hit by Sengoku. While Sengoku received no damage.
Hmm?, Shanks was worried about blackbeard defeating ACE, not himself. Both sengoku and shanks are stronger than blackbeard preTimeSkip.
In Conclusion, I don't think we can determinate who would win in a fight between a yonkou and admiral.
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my point was that if the worlds strongest man (without handicaps) is stronger than an admiral, the other yonkous doesn't have to be weaker than the admirals just beacuse they are weaker than WB.
Hmm?, Shanks was worried about blackbeard defeating ACE, not himself. Both sengoku and shanks are stronger than blackbeard preTimeSkip.
In Conclusion, I don't think we can determinate who would win in a fight between a yonkou and admiral.
Please everyone pay attention to the last line. This is the true fact. We have no idea about the Yonkou's true strengths (other then the deceased WB, who could probably do more if he had not had all his crew &allies on the island). So please stop trying to put them in an order of strength.
