A kidnapped mermaid leading to confrontation with the World Nobles? What a novel plot twist!
Official Fishman Island Discussion
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@ Lazy Justice - With the Reverie constantly being mentioned over and over and Caribou having his eyes set on Shirahoshi, I don't see how anyone could ignore the possibility of the next arc moving to Marijoa.
Can't you see the Straw Hat's lighting up even more headlines about how they were the first pirates to interrupt Reverie?
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@ Lazy Justice - With the Reverie constantly being mentioned over and over and Caribou having his eyes set on Shirahoshi, I don't see how anyone could ignore the possibility of the next arc moving to Marijoa.
Can't you see the Straw Hat's lighting up even more headlines about how they were the first pirates to interrupt Reverie?
I personally would love to see a reverie arc, but I think it's too soon. I hope that Reverie is after they learn more about the World Gov.
It could very well be the reverie arc sets up a bigger and bolder arc later down on the road though. I sort of want to see the New World already though…
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The reverie is in Mariejoa, which is directly above where they're at now. So it either happens now or at the very end of the series, which seems like a bit much for all the heavy foreshadowing of it recently. The only other possibility is that they travel backwards through the New World just to crash the party, which isn't really how the story has worked so far.
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@ Lazy Justice - With the Reverie constantly being mentioned over and over and Caribou having his eyes set on Shirahoshi, I don't see how anyone could ignore the possibility of the next arc moving to Marijoa.
Can't you see the Straw Hat's lighting up even more headlines about how they were the first pirates to interrupt Reverie?
Another rescue arc? Just what we need… :getlost:
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Oh, I think I get why Chopper hasn't used Heavy Point up until now. It's to show it off against Dosun, and display that it's as powerful if not more then a roided up fishman.
I like how I predicted all of these match ups wrong. Shame the ladies don't get fights (…yet?) but I also realize that they really avoid these things unless antagonized. Nami has fought when her friends were in danger (Skypiea and sort of Enies Lobby), and Robin of course defends history or supports her crew like in Thriller Bark. It's in character for them to get left up, and yet that still doesn't change the disappointment.
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@ Lazy Justice - With the Reverie constantly being mentioned over and over and Caribou having his eyes set on Shirahoshi, I don't see how anyone could ignore the possibility of the next arc moving to Marijoa.
Can't you see the Straw Hat's lighting up even more headlines about how they were the first pirates to interrupt Reverie?
BUT WHY
Why would they go to the Reverie? The Reverie is where the Kings all over One Piece gather and discuss stuff. Why would the strawhats be there?
RESCUE ARC? ha, what reason would any kidnappers or whatever take said kidnapped person to the reverie?
FISHMAN'S DOCUMENT? ha, now tell me how a notorous pirate crew would help out the fishman's cause in any way to have peaceful relations with humans on land?so again what reason would they have to show up there? To say hi to Vivi? only thing would be if they heard she was in trouble, but why would that be news the strawhats would hear and why would she be in trouble at the reverie?
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Oh, I think I get why Chopper hasn't used Heavy Point up until now. It's to show it off against Dosun, and display that it's as powerful if not more then a roided up fishman.
I like how I predicted all of these match ups wrong. Shame the ladies don't get fights (…yet?) but I also realize that they really avoid these things unless antagonized. Nami has fought when her friends were in danger (Skypiea and sort of Enies Lobby), and Robin of course defends history or supports her crew like in Thriller Bark. It's in character for them to get left up, and yet that still doesn't change the disappointment.
the reason they have no fights is cause we have no sexy enemy fishwomen/mermaids
but its bullshit nami has no fight. I mean she is like the reason we have been looking forward to this arc for 600 chapters and yet she gets no fight? wtf.
and then if NAMI does end up getting a fight, Robin better damn well get a fight. Can't be the only one in the crew to not have one.
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the reason they have no fights is cause we have no sexy enemy fishwomen/mermaids
but its bullshit nami has no fight. I mean she is like the reason we have been looking forward to this arc for 600 chapters and yet she gets no fight? wtf.
and then if NAMI does end up getting a fight, Robin better damn well get a fight. Can't be the only one in the crew to not have one.
On the bright side Brook is getting his first one-on-one since joining the crew;however its a bit of a farce because, he'll end up dominating Zeo terribly in the end.
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BUT WHY
Why would they go to the Reverie? The Reverie is where the Kings all over One Piece gather and discuss stuff. Why would the strawhats be there?
RESCUE ARC? ha, what reason would any kidnappers or whatever take said kidnapped person to the reverie?
FISHMAN'S DOCUMENT? ha, now tell me how a notorous pirate crew would help out the fishman's cause in any way to have peaceful relations with humans on land?so again what reason would they have to show up there? To say hi to Vivi? only thing would be if they heard she was in trouble, but why would that be news the strawhats would hear and why would she be in trouble at the reverie?
Well at this point there is no reason for the Straw Hat's to go themselves. To say or imply at all that there couldn't be one especially at all the hinting is just being narrow minded. Above all no one is implying in any way shape or form that the SHs will be sitting at that huge table making world changing decisions. If they go to the country that Reverie is held, we will see Reverie, not a single straw hat has to set foot in the meeting room. Though chances are they would interrupt it one way or another.
How could a band of super notorious pirates be useful for Fishman Island in gaining ground with the WG? Fanfiction time!
King Neptune and Jinbe want just a bit of extra pull along with all their signatures and a reason to go get back the mermaids if Caribou completes his goal. They plan to tell all the Kings(who probably fear the SH's) that the SHs have destroyed their homeland, but in the process they were captured along with Jinbe. As a gift they are brought to the WG. Stuff goes down and they bust out taking slaves that Caribou recently sold off with them. Though they make it appear as if Shirahoshi drives them away with seakings. And now the WG is more than happy to add their country to their ranks.
Who knows?! There is no reason now but we are getting set up for something big soon! If not you win.
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Well at this point there is no reason for the Straw Hat's to go themselves. To say or imply at all that there couldn't be one especially at all the hinting is just being narrow minded. Above all no one is implying in any way shape or form that the SHs will be sitting at that huge table making world changing decisions. If they go to the country that Reverie is held, we will see Reverie, not a single straw hat has to set foot in the meeting room. Though chances are they would interrupt it one way or another.
How could a band of super notorious pirates be useful for Fishman Island in gaining ground with the WG? Fanfiction time!
King Neptune and Jinbe want just a bit of extra pull along with all their signatures and a reason to go get back the mermaids if Caribou completes his goal. They plan to tell all the Kings(who probably fear the SH's) that the SHs have destroyed their homeland, but in the process they were captured along with Jinbe. As a gift they are brought to the WG. Stuff goes down and they bust out taking slaves that Caribou recently sold off with them. Though they make it appear as if Shirahoshi drives them away with seakings. And now the WG is more than happy to add their country to their ranks.
Who knows?! There is no reason now but we are getting set up for something big soon! If not you win.
so there coming to play the part of bad guys and have the fishman people chase them away?
Yea that exactly what Otohime wanted. I'm sure she would think that having the princess call Sea Kings to fight for her in front of hundreds of kinds to be a GREAT IDEA.
Why again did Otohime go to Mariojoe again instead of her father? Because it says something when someone weak is going versus a warrior.
When a group of millions of people are trying to make a case to say "we want to live PEACEFULLY" with you. The worst thing you can do is show them you have a handful of nukes coming with you. The Princess showing off her Sea King ability would make the kings all FEAR the fishpeople. If the Fishpeople in anyway managed to beat off the Strawhats, it would also do the same thing. While their idea may be in good nature, it in teh same sense shows off their FIGHTING PROWESS and thus scares teh Humans.
Imagine if some lets say millions of Arabs come to a giant UN meeting an want to be peaceful and live together with all the people. Then all of a sudden some terrorists attack the UN meeting and so the Arabs pull out a small gun that magically can shoot nuclear bombs and destroys the terrorists and protects the UN. Do you honestly think they would get a good reception from that? Hell no, the whole world would be scared shitless, like how the hell do they have a weapon like that. we can't fight people like that. they are too strong, scary,. ect.
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so there coming to play the part of bad guys and have the fishman people chase them away?
Yea that exactly what Otohime wanted. I'm sure she would think that having the princess call Sea Kings to fight for her in front of hundreds of kinds to be a GREAT IDEA.
Why again did Otohime go to Mariojoe again instead of her father? Because it says something when someone weak is going versus a warrior.
When a group of millions of people are trying to make a case to say "we want to live PEACEFULLY" with you. The worst thing you can do is show them you have a handful of nukes coming with you. The Princess showing off her Sea King ability would make the kings all FEAR the fishpeople. If the Fishpeople in anyway managed to beat off the Strawhats, it would also do the same thing. While their idea may be in good nature, it in teh same sense shows off their FIGHTING PROWESS and thus scares teh Humans.
Imagine if some lets say millions of Arabs come to a giant UN meeting an want to be peaceful and live together with all the people. Then all of a sudden some terrorists attack the UN meeting and so the Arabs pull out a small gun that magically can shoot nuclear bombs and destroys the terrorists and protects the UN. Do you honestly think they would get a good reception from that? Hell no, the whole world would be scared shitless, like how the hell do they have a weapon like that. we can't fight people like that. they are too strong, scary,. ect.
My lame fan fiction is hardly the issue, I don't know why you are even trying to argue that. My point is that with all the forshadowing the Straw Hat's are likely to go to Marijoa before the end of the series. Oda only knows for what reason, in all likelihood a captured princess mermaid issue. If they go to Marijoa chances are Reverie will be going on the same time, that is all I am saying.
The possibilities for the next arc to be centered on Marijoa are pretty high, rather than circling the globe again or back tracking.
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Mariejois is more likely to be at the end of the series, once they've reached the end. Once Luffy's Pirate King, he can sail wherever he wants.
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@Lazy:
Mariejois is more likely to be at the end of the series, once they've reached the end. Once Luffy's Pirate King, he can sail wherever he wants.
That is the best passport to Mariejois I've ever heard of.
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That is the best passport to Mariejois I've ever heard of.
I meant he didn't have to keep going in a straight line anymore, although typing this I realize your comment was tongue-in-cheek.
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I think that the Reverie Mariejois arc will be the last arc of all, with Luffy already as the king of the pirates and knowing the story void, he will want to assist that reunion since, well, he will be the king of the seas. And since the government and marines will try to stop them, in this arc we will also have the awesome war that Whitebeard talked about, with pirates like Hancock, Jimbe, some supernovas and more powerful alies fighting side to side with the strawhats against the whole marines…So basically, it will be an arc which will involve people we know from lots of diferent places (Alabasta, Drum, Water 7, etc)
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@Lazy:
Mariejois is more likely to be at the end of the series, once they've reached the end. Once Luffy's Pirate King, he can sail wherever he wants.
What does that most likely mean?
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Oooo someone posted 2 or so posts above that Luffy will invite himself to the meeting of the Kings because he will be King of the Sea/Pirates. That would be so damn epic, he'll be like knocking on the door asking to be let in XD
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Tired, and little stressed, and can't concentrate on much else. So I'm going to put thoughts on Fishman Island. Done this a bunch of times, but I've been rethinking about it.
If you've read my "review" when there was that 4 week break and people were trying to read the whole series, you'll know what to expect. If not, just be warned it's long. It's just theraputic for me though putting it all out there so if you read it great. If not, whatever.
! Under the sea
! The ship underwater adventure was really good. Oda showed off his research on underwater adventures and it shows. We were hinted at VDD and Caribou and showed off a bit of the crew's new abilities. Plus it had great interaction. Only thing that bothers me is that Caribou showed his true personality which is completely different than how he acted when he was first introduced, which is disapointing, but I think I've adapted enough to new Caribou.
Adventures of Fishman Island
! Adventure and Fishman Island is a mixed bag. After reskimming it, I think we did learn a lot about Fishman Island. The crew did travel a lot of places around Fishman Island and we learned a lot about both the culture and the biology of Fishman/merman. The whole Strawhats are the enemy do kinda fit the motif of fear of the unknown leading to misunderstandings and hatred that's prominent in the arc. Plus it showed Nami/Usopp/Chopper taking out goons which was really nice to see.
! Oda really should've had mini maps when Luffy and co. were traveling Fishman Island instead of throwing it all together in that one chapter. It would've given a better feel of the island especially since the plot was still murky at this point.
! Bad parts were Hody and the nosebleed scene. Urouge touched a lot on Hody's big problems. Overall he's a mix of Wapol, Krieg, and Arlong and not in a good way. All of his evil accomplishments happened off screen. The kingdom was basically handed to him on a silver platter. Princes were defeated off screen. And he was one shotted by Zoro, which killed all tension. And at this point there was nothing specific that made us hate Hody personally so he came off as weak. Wapol was like that too but he was always meant to be a douche that had the crown not some warrior claiming to be the strongest.
! Nosebleed
! >! First is if Sanji didn't get a nosebleed in the first place. I'm 50/50 on that. It was dumb, but sadly in character given the buildup. yet, Oda could've easilly made Sanji be in mortal danger in some other way. Maybe have his body crushed by the deep sea pressure. His superhuman body would allow him to handle it. Chopper's amazing medical skills would save his life. And he would still need blood without being "beaten'.
! Dang. Just remembered something. Sanji pretty much pissing all over his dream of All Blue. Seeing mermaids to the point of death, that's fine. Multiple references to All Blue and they weren't made by Sanji himself, but instead saying how his dream is to see mermaids instead. Lowest blow ever. Sanji's been fairly bad this arc but I feel like this was a low blow for his character. Could be blowing this out of proportion but that's how I'm remembering it right now.
! But even if that wasn't changed, it's the aftermath that was skipped over that bothers me the most. Skipping over Robin finding out about the poneglyph and Franky finding Tom's brother is whatever for me, but this was built up that ended with a gag of okama pirates (where the hell did they come from???)
! Here's how it should've been done. (read if you want, or don't. It's my fanfic/rewrite so you don't have to)
! Show Luffy/Usopp/chopper frantically searching for a donor. Show off the citizens reactions, showing how they respond to humans in general (maybe they're fearful of pirates, hate humans, afraid to get attacked by Hody etc). Then have one brave fishman out of the 5 million be willing to give blood to Sanji and have Luffy and co befriend him. Later on have Hody find out and attack him offscreen giving him his punishment for helping humans. he doesn't even have to die, just have Hody say something like (today's a special day. all of you human loving traitors will suffer). It gives us a personal reason to hate Hody while making him look competent and douchy.
Flashback
! >! Now that we know Oda's hiding Fisher Tiger was a slave and since it's in a bulk instead of weekly, the pacing didn't seem that bad with the back and forth. I'm stealing Zephos' criticisms though since I agree with it mostly.
! Fisher Tiger was great. Only problem is we should've seen more of the Fishman District before Fisher Tiger went adventuring. It would've been nice to see the "change" in Arlong and see more of Jinbe/Fisher Tiger from before this experience. Seeing more of FT beign a leader to the Fishman District would've been nice too. And Macro is an enigma. He's a coward so he betrays his race and former idol?
! Otohime's dilemma was done well albiet cheesy. I agree with zephos in that her character was almost only shown pushing her values and exposition. It's a good payoff though when she did "achieve" her goal with the letter. She was also shown to be an empath so her desire to want to relieve the fishmen/mermen that want to be above the surface their suffering should be a good enough motivation.
! But I do think she is a solid mom and she seems to genuinely care, so that was fine with me.
! Neptune was like an inverse of Cobra. He was shown to be goofy in the present but had this completely serious attitude in the past. Was bothered by his lack of relevance in the flashback until Oda explained it. Classic.
! Last thing I'm confused about is the Reverie. If I recall Fisher Tiger's actions made it so they were kicked out? Were they allowed back in?
! setting up the pieces
! I guess I get Hody's plan, but I do find it stupid that he revealed in front of everyone that he killed the queen. What if he had followers solely from the fact that they thought a human killed Otohime? I still like to think that the drugs are making him more arrogant, stupid, and villain cliche.
! Think it would've been a lot more interesting if Oda didn't be so black and white on the issue and had say, a former slave want vengance instead of just an ignorant prick. The story is very black/white which Oda has done, but I felt like he has gone in more shades of grey before.
! VDD is someone I haven't talked about much but I do like. He fits his niche nicely. He's solid.
! The Princes are also solid. Individually they're not as developed as Wiper but all of them are better developed than the rest of the Shandians. They're the metaphor I thought of when trying to gauge their development.
! Why Jinbe and Luffy fought still bothers me since they decided in the end to make Luffy a hero anyways. Felt like if that was the end result than the fighting wasn't necessary, though it did explain Fishman karate.
! And now we're at the fights. Just remembered the whole "controlling the kraken by threatening his brothers" was kinda dumb. So Hody isn't even scary enough to control that beast through fear? Yeah Mohmoo is much weaker, but having that fear made Arlong seem awesome. Plus it just seems like another forced reason for Luffy to hate Hody. It's like the "Pirate King" thing Hody said but given that context I kinda like how that played out.
! Crew interaction has been solid ever since timeskip occurred. No complaints here. The crew has been showing off their skills which is nice and I like the development of Chopper and Usopp but glad the crew is still the same. Some loose ends that need to be tied up.
! Caribou
Big Mam and her destroyed factory
history of the ark
Joy Boy
Destruction of the island (which is probably going to be the climax)
Where are the rest of the Sunny Pirates/former slaves like Aladdin?
Reverie?(which I still believe will be at the end of the series instead of after this story)
! Not really an artist so I don't want to judge the artwork.Glad I got that out of my system. Still want to do a full review (not here, maybe I'll start a blog) when it's over just to have a proper gauge on how it's like.
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@ultimateclima:
Tired, and little stressed, and can't concentrate on much else. So I'm going to put thoughts on Fishman Island. Done this a bunch of times, but I've been rethinking about it.
If you've read my "review" when there was that 4 week break and people were trying to read the whole series, you'll know what to expect. If not, just be warned it's long. It's just theraputic for me though putting it all out there so if you read it great. If not, whatever.
! Under the sea
! The ship underwater adventure was really good. Oda showed off his research on underwater adventures and it shows. We were hinted at VDD and Caribou and showed off a bit of the crew's new abilities. Plus it had great interaction. Only thing that bothers me is that Caribou showed his true personality which is completely different than how he acted when he was first introduced, which is disapointing, but I think I've adapted enough to new Caribou.
Adventures of Fishman Island
! Adventure and Fishman Island is a mixed bag. After reskimming it, I think we did learn a lot about Fishman Island. The crew did travel a lot of places around Fishman Island and we learned a lot about both the culture and the biology of Fishman/merman. The whole Strawhats are the enemy do kinda fit the motif of fear of the unknown leading to misunderstandings and hatred that's prominent in the arc. Plus it showed Nami/Usopp/Chopper taking out goons which was really nice to see.
! Oda really should've had mini maps when Luffy and co. were traveling Fishman Island instead of throwing it all together in that one chapter. It would've given a better feel of the island especially since the plot was still murky at this point.
! Bad parts were Hody and the nosebleed scene. Urouge touched a lot on Hody's big problems. Overall he's a mix of Wapol, Krieg, and Arlong and not in a good way. All of his evil accomplishments happened off screen. The kingdom was basically handed to him on a silver platter. Princes were defeated off screen. And he was one shotted by Zoro, which killed all tension. And at this point there was nothing specific that made us hate Hody personally so he came off as weak. Wapol was like that too but he was always meant to be a douche that had the crown not some warrior claiming to be the strongest.
! Nosebleed
! >! First is if Sanji didn't get a nosebleed in the first place. I'm 50/50 on that. It was dumb, but sadly in character given the buildup. yet, Oda could've easilly made Sanji be in mortal danger in some other way. Maybe have his body crushed by the deep sea pressure. His superhuman body would allow him to handle it. Chopper's amazing medical skills would save his life. And he would still need blood without being "beaten'.
! Dang. Just remembered something. Sanji pretty much pissing all over his dream of All Blue. Seeing mermaids to the point of death, that's fine. Multiple references to All Blue and they weren't made by Sanji himself, but instead saying how his dream is to see mermaids instead. Lowest blow ever. Sanji's been fairly bad this arc but I feel like this was a low blow for his character. Could be blowing this out of proportion but that's how I'm remembering it right now.
! But even if that wasn't changed, it's the aftermath that was skipped over that bothers me the most. Skipping over Robin finding out about the poneglyph and Franky finding Tom's brother is whatever for me, but this was built up that ended with a gag of okama pirates (where the hell did they come from???)
! Here's how it should've been done. (read if you want, or don't. It's my fanfic/rewrite so you don't have to)
! Show Luffy/Usopp/chopper frantically searching for a donor. Show off the citizens reactions, showing how they respond to humans in general (maybe they're fearful of pirates, hate humans, afraid to get attacked by Hody etc). Then have one brave fishman out of the 5 million be willing to give blood to Sanji and have Luffy and co befriend him. Later on have Hody find out and attack him offscreen giving him his punishment for helping humans. he doesn't even have to die, just have Hody say something like (today's a special day. all of you human loving traitors will suffer). It gives us a personal reason to hate Hody while making him look competent and douchy.
Flashback
! >! Now that we know Oda's hiding Fisher Tiger was a slave and since it's in a bulk instead of weekly, the pacing didn't seem that bad with the back and forth. I'm stealing Zephos' criticisms though since I agree with it mostly.
! Fisher Tiger was great. Only problem is we should've seen more of the Fishman District before Fisher Tiger went adventuring. It would've been nice to see the "change" in Arlong and see more of Jinbe/Fisher Tiger from before this experience. Seeing more of FT beign a leader to the Fishman District would've been nice too. And Macro is an enigma. He's a coward so he betrays his race and former idol?
! Otohime's dilemma was done well albiet cheesy. I agree with zephos in that her character was almost only shown pushing her values and exposition. It's a good payoff though when she did "achieve" her goal with the letter. She was also shown to be an empath so her desire to want to relieve the fishmen/mermen that want to be above the surface their suffering should be a good enough motivation.
! But I do think she is a solid mom and she seems to genuinely care, so that was fine with me.
! Neptune was like an inverse of Cobra. He was shown to be goofy in the present but had this completely serious attitude in the past. Was bothered by his lack of relevance in the flashback until Oda explained it. Classic.
! Last thing I'm confused about is the Reverie. If I recall Fisher Tiger's actions made it so they were kicked out? Were they allowed back in?
! setting up the pieces
! I guess I get Hody's plan, but I do find it stupid that he revealed in front of everyone that he killed the queen. What if he had followers solely from the fact that they thought a human killed Otohime? I still like to think that the drugs are making him more arrogant, stupid, and villain cliche.
! Think it would've been a lot more interesting if Oda didn't be so black and white on the issue and had say, a former slave want vengance instead of just an ignorant prick. The story is very black/white which Oda has done, but I felt like he has gone in more shades of grey before.
! VDD is someone I haven't talked about much but I do like. He fits his niche nicely. He's solid.
! The Princes are also solid. Individually they're not as developed as Wiper but all of them are better developed than the rest of the Shandians. They're the metaphor I thought of when trying to gauge their development.
! Why Jinbe and Luffy fought still bothers me since they decided in the end to make Luffy a hero anyways. Felt like if that was the end result than the fighting wasn't necessary, though it did explain Fishman karate.
! And now we're at the fights. Just remembered the whole "controlling the kraken by threatening his brothers" was kinda dumb. So Hody isn't even scary enough to control that beast through fear? Yeah Mohmoo is much weaker, but having that fear made Arlong seem awesome. Plus it just seems like another forced reason for Luffy to hate Hody. It's like the "Pirate King" thing Hody said but given that context I kinda like how that played out.
! Crew interaction has been solid ever since timeskip occurred. No complaints here. The crew has been showing off their skills which is nice and I like the development of Chopper and Usopp but glad the crew is still the same. Some loose ends that need to be tied up.
! Caribou
Big Mam and her destroyed factory
Where was border patrol
history of the ark
Joy Boy
Destruction of the island (which is probably going to be the climax)
Where are the rest of the Sunny Pirates/former slaves like Aladdin?
Reverie?(which I still believe will be at the end of the series instead of after this story)
! Not really an artist so I don't want to judge the artwork.Glad I got that out of my system. Still want to do a full review (not here, maybe I'll start a blog) when it's over just to have a proper gauge on how it's like.
After the fiasco that Tiger made at Mariejois, as Neptune said, they could not attend the next Reverie. The next page shows Otohime with her petition, hoping for a later time when they would be able to. After returning from Mariejois with the completed petition, that paper she held up most likely was their permission re-granted.
For the whole Sanji's nosebleed bit, don't think too much into it. It was meant as a gag specific to his character, even if it led to the point that he almost died (but in what likelihood would he really die?). The Okama pirate twins are part of the gag and nothing more. What I'd complain about is how obvious it was portrayed, almost forced in.
Hody is meant to be a complete black and white character; a simple build, so to speak, of a classic villain – the usual excuse to give the Straw Hats reason to beat him and his outcast buddies into pulps. While he could have been made as a grayer shade of villain, it was not the main purpose to give us reason to sympathize with him. So, seeing him getting beat up should have a complete satisfactory feeling. All the buildup of his strength is more to give way to the new strengths of the Straw Hat crew and how far they've come from a boss level that probably would have been plenty of trouble without the 2 years.
What? Cobra had always been his goofy self up to the present. It was the problem with a coming civil war that made him solemn.
Luffy vs Jinbe was another way for readers to relate closer to Jinbe's character. Even in this situation that was easily settled, Jinbe can be just as stubborn as Luffy. It was this moment that I gave some thought to Jinbe joining the crew.
I'm not here to criticize your review, only point out some things you may have overlooked, thus giving me a better perspective. Thanks.
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After the fiasco that Tiger made at Mariejois, as Neptune said, they could not attend the next Reverie. The next page shows Otohime with her petition, hoping for a later time when they would be able to. After returning from Mariejois with the completed petition, that paper she held up most likely was their permission re-granted.
Which is why Hody's plan confuses me. Was he just going to sneak into the meeting? Was he going to be the "representative" of Fishman Island? Was he planning on using the petition by the World Noble that he threatened to destroy? It wouldn't be a problem if say they were a part of the Reverie again and that's why he wants to be King and was invited. If he's planning on ambushing the meeting I don't see why he needs to be King then, other than trying to unite the Fishmen under his rule.
For the whole Sanji's nosebleed bit, don't think too much into it. It was meant as a gag specific to his character, even if it led to the point that he almost died (but in what likelihood would he really die?). The Okama pirate twins are part of the gag and nothing more. What I'd complain about is how obvious it was portrayed, almost forced in.
Gag yes, but it was the gateway to what should've been a serious issue. Fisher Tiger's death was because he refused a blood transfusion and one of Hody's big villainous M.O. was assassinating anyone that gave blood to humans. It's downplayed in the story enough that the gag is appropriate but the issue could be a lot more important.
Plus the okamas kinda defeated the whole "haven't had human visitors in awhile"/"Hody seemed to be capturing all the pirates down there" thing. They just seemed to pop in and disappear solely for the gag. It's a gag, I get it. I'm just saying.
Hody is meant to be a complete black and white character; a simple build, so to speak, of a classic villain – the usual excuse to give the Straw Hats reason to beat him and his outcast buddies into pulps. While he could have been made as a grayer shade of villain, it was not the main purpose to give us reason to sympathize with him. So, seeing him getting beat up should have a complete satisfactory feeling. All the buildup of his strength is more to give way to the new strengths of the Straw Hat crew and how far they've come from a boss level that probably would have been plenty of trouble without the 2 years.
The whole shades of gray was just me wondering what would've happened if Oda took it a different direction. I'm still standing with what I said about Hody.
What? Cobra had always been his goofy self up to the present. It was the problem with a coming civil war that made him solemn.
That's why I said inverse. When Cobra was first introduced he seemed like a really serious character. The flashback was the first time we saw this silly side to him. He has both in him though. Neptune is the opposite in that we're first introduced to him and he seems to be this big goofball. He does have his heroic moment protecting his guards and the Ministers, but the flashback showed this stoic side and how his years as a soldier make it difficult for him to understand peace. There's different aspects to his character just like Cobra.
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@ultimateclima:
Which is why Hody's plan confuses me. Was he just going to sneak into the meeting? Was he going to be the "representative" of Fishman Island? Was he planning on using the petition by the World Noble that he threatened to destroy? It wouldn't be a problem if say they were a part of the Reverie again and that's why he wants to be King and was invited. If he's planning on ambushing the meeting I don't see why he needs to be King then, other than trying to unite the Fishmen under his rule.
Apparently to Hody, becoming King = do whatever the hell he wants. He obviously doesn't understand the purpose of getting a petition in the first place. It wasn't until the present day with all those signatures collected that Ryuuguu Kingdom could again attend the Reverie. That's why they're so concerned about this coming Reverie. If they miss this chance, they might not get another.
Gag yes, but it was the gateway to what should've been a serious issue. Fisher Tiger's death was because he refused a blood transfusion and one of Hody's big villainous M.O. was assassinating anyone that gave blood to humans. It's downplayed in the story enough that the gag is appropriate but the issue could be a lot more important.
Yep, Oda, like any good storywriter, loves to play with parallels. That leaves the reason for Tiger's death with much more impact.
The whole shades of gray was just me wondering what would've happened if Oda took it a different direction. I'm still standing with what I said about Hody.
Sure, and I still agree with you; just pointing out how Oda might have wanted him portrayed as.
I'm just confused as to how all these different elements introduced in this arc are going to be explained, since Oda's leaving them out at this time:
- Caribou, I'm sure will end in a comic way. How he'll try to capture Shira will be interesting.
- Big Mam most likely won't appear until the end of or after this arc. The news of FI being destroyed would first have to spread.
- Border patrol? How can we identify them from the rest of the army? Maybe some badges or bands, but they probably aren't too important.
- History of the ark and JoyBoy, two mysteries that are somehow connected, I think?
- Destruction of the island is just about certain. How much of the island getting destroyed is another issue.
- The former Sunny Pirates, besides Arlong's and Macro's gangs, could be revealed later to be living in retirement elsewhere. They met Caimie randomly and thus met Hachi that way. shrug
- The Reverie meeting itself shouldn't take too much of the story; rather the impact of a decision made this year would, especially that Whitebeard essentially re-enlivened the Pirate Age. It could appear at the end of this arc.
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If Hody would be so stupid to go to the reverie, he would be eaten by Wapol
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- Border patrol? How can we identify them from the rest of the army? Maybe some badges or bands, but they probably aren't too important.
My bad. Ignore this. There was a scene in 616 where I thought Ryuugu Kingdom couldn't get in contact with the people from the front entrance. I thought they went missing. It was really the other way around, and the front entrance couldn't prevent Hody and co from entering and couldn't contact Ryuugu Kingdom.
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My prediction:
Noah will destroy FI, and Luffy will take the blame for it. (to cover up) -
But Shirley's prediction clearly said that it was Luffy destroying Fishman island.
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I have a feeling Shirley only saw what was shown in her crystal ball. It isn't very clear as to what is breaking up into pieces (it looks like it's inside a bubble, unless the shine is from the ball itself), and the ball doesn't show how it breaks (perhaps by water pressure, but not necessarily):
http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/610/15
She then saw a silhouette/shadow of Luffy standing somewhere else, but it's unknown where (if there's a shadow, that means light is shining on him… the Eve Tree?). Given that much, naturally she'd suspect that Luffy is responsible for destroying the island.Yet, I wonder: what if the object shown is not the island itself? It could be something else in a bubble... like the Ryuuguu Palace, or the soon-to-be-encased Noah. I really hope it's not the former; the petition and signatures are still in there. If it's the latter, it would make sense for Luffy to be responsible for breaking something... but the ship isn't supposed to be destroyed. Then, if the whole island is destroyed... it'd be a worse disaster than the Noah breaking. In fact, forget the Reverie; where would the people live? No, that option brings up too many problems...
Regardless, something is going to go boom.
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But Shirley's prediction clearly said that it was Luffy destroying Fishman island.
Hmmm… What i think is Luffy will declare to all FI citizen that he is the one who dropped Noah to FI?
Another crazy theory is Luffy will destroy FI to save Noah???? (as it is important). I think even though the island destroyed, all citizens will be saved from falling Noah as they can swim :blink: -
I thought about it for a while, and I decided that I actually think Hody is a great villain.
Is he intimidating? No. Is he competent? Not really. Is he that much of a threat? Not on the surface, at least. Is he scary? Fuck yes.
Sure, his plans follow no real logic, and he just seems to do what he does just for the sake of being an asshole, but then again, that's sort of the point. A big part of the arc is the ideals shown by Fisher Tiger, and, by extension, Jinbe and even Arlong somewhat. So it makes perfect sense for the villain to be someone from a newer generation of Fishmen, who has taken those beliefs and ideals and has twisted them until they've become something horrifying. He's been so consumed by hatred that he doesn't even know what he's actually fighting for anymore, and is purely motivated by his need to lash out against anything that's there, and I think that works, and is actually sort of tragic in a sense. In an arc with these sorts of themes, it gives a powerful message about how taking things to an extreme can make one worse than the thing that they were trying to fight against, and how bitterness can literally destroy yourself and those around you. No matter what happens, no matter what anyone says, he can't be reasoned with, and he won't ever stop his needless rage, and that's terrifying, and the fact that he could convince others to join him on his sick cause makes it all the more frightening. It's actually much more effective than a more calculated, intelligent villain would be.
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But Shirley's prediction clearly said that it was Luffy destroying Fishman island.
Clearly? Definitely not, just that a man wearing a straw hat would. Now I admit I too think that it's Luffy, I'm just saying that it's definitely possible for Oda to surprise us with somebody else.
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From the start, I've always had doubts Luffy was going to destroy FI. Madam Shirley said a man with a RIPPED Straw Hat, Luffy's hat isn't ripped, is it?
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Yes it is. By Buggy?
Maybe the hat will be ripped by Hody, sending Luffy in to Gear Infinity mode.
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From the start, I've always had doubts Luffy was going to destroy FI. Madam Shirley said a man with a RIPPED Straw Hat, Luffy's hat isn't ripped, is it?
Maybe the imposter Straw Hat will come? Maybe he's stronger than everyone thought!
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I thought about it for a while, and I decided that I actually think Hody is a great villain.
Is he intimidating? No. Is he competent? Not really. Is he that much of a threat? Not on the surface, at least. Is he scary? Fuck yes.
[hide]Sure, his plans follow no real logic, and he just seems to do what he does just for the sake of being an asshole, but then again, that's sort of the point. A big part of the arc is the ideals shown by Fisher Tiger, and, by extension, Jinbe and even Arlong somewhat. So it makes perfect sense for the villain to be someone from a newer generation of Fishmen, who has taken those beliefs and ideals and has twisted them until they've become something horrifying. He's been so consumed by hatred that he doesn't even know what he's actually fighting for anymore, and is purely motivated by his need to lash out against anything that's there, and I think that works, and is actually sort of tragic in a sense. In an arc with these sorts of themes, it gives a powerful message about how taking things to an extreme can make one worse than the thing that they were trying to fight against, and how bitterness can literally destroy yourself and those around you. No matter what happens, no matter what anyone says, he can't be reasoned with, and he won't ever stop his needless rage, and that's terrifying, and the fact that he could convince others to join him on his sick cause makes it all the more frightening. It's actually much more effective than a more calculated, intelligent villain would be.[/hide]
Wow–great post Kylor--you've definitely given me something to chew on here. Thanks for your thoughts. I need to think on it a bit, as I'm not sure if there's as much randomness as you seem to be suggesting, but still... I like this analysis of Hody somehow.
From the start, I've always had doubts Luffy was going to destroy FI. Madam Shirley said a man with a RIPPED Straw Hat, Luffy's hat isn't ripped, is it?
I believe it was determined that the whole "ripped hat" thing was a mistranslation by Mangastream… Anyone recall for certain? I'll look it up in the spoiler threads and chapter thread and what not later--in fact I think they even fixed it after the fact in the chapter they posted, so that may be a place to start looking--I'm headed out now, so no time at the moment--unless someone else wants to do the research first and save the day?
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Well nice posts but and I agree to some of the Hody analyse… But that's why I said in the chapter thread I have the feeling this arc isn't just about Hody and everything will be fine. Hody is the man who hates human for a soon revelaed reason the most... if Luffy is able to change his view on Hody, so he will for the whole island.
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@I:
I believe it was determined that the whole "ripped hat" thing was a mistranslation by Mangastream… Anyone recall for certain? I'll look it up in the spoiler threads and chapter thread and what not later--in fact I think they even fixed it after the fact in the chapter they posted, so that may be a place to start looking--I'm headed out now, so no time at the moment--unless someone else wants to do the research first and save the day?
If it was a mistranslation, then what was mistranslated, exactly? Something had to have been before the Japanese word for "Straw Hat" in order for them to get that adjective…
But what do I know about Japanese-English translations? I don't even know if Japan has what we call adjectives.
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If it was a mistranslation, then what was mistranslated, exactly? Something had to have been before the Japanese word for "Straw Hat" in order for them to get that adjective…
But what do I know about Japanese-English translations? I don't even know if Japan has what we call adjectives.
the raw says:
麦わら帽子を被った人間…
which means "a man wearing a straw hat" there isn't any adjective in that sentence. -
But what do I know about Japanese-English translations? I don't even know if Japan has what we call adjectives.
FYI, the Japanese language is especially varied because of the many adjectives available, among other things of course. Who knows why Mangastream added in "ripped". Same for why they translated "Chopper, are the tunnels all connected?" to "Chopper, did you pop out without making a hole?" (This example I still find hilarious.)
Well, it's definitely not the first time Mangastream has messed up such things, even after changing translators. They really need a QC.
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Prince Fukaboshi is such a great example to other fishman.
Clearly a king in waiting.
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Hody Jones is such a great example to other fishman.
Clearly a "not saying" in waiting.
Fixed it for ya… But Fukaboshi is great as well
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I thought about it for a while, and I decided that I actually think Hody is a great villain.
Is he intimidating? No. Is he competent? Not really. Is he that much of a threat? Not on the surface, at least. Is he scary? Fuck yes.
I agree. I find Hody (and Decken, to an extent) to be reminiscent of an East Blue Villain. It's been so long since we've had a villain like that, so it's refreshing.
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yes–It is a refreshing change back to a great sort of villain, but I fer sure do not think he's any sort of "next nakamate" material--this fact just nails that for me.
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Maybe the imposter Straw Hat will come? Maybe he's stronger than everyone thought!
That would be a pretty interesting twist. :P
Although, I'm pretty sure he was arrested already. :/ -
Well if we look at fights in the different sagas, Hody's fight so far has not been like any of them. East Blue was usually a straight battle that finished once it started (Buggy, Kuro, Don Krieg). Grand Line villain battles were usually interrupted and broken in to two or three smaller battles (Crocodile, Lucci, Moriah).
This hasn't really been a battle, it's been a few exchanges of punches but it's clear Hody has no intention of fighting Luffy one-on-one, he cares more about the plan. If anything, it's more like Arlong throwing Luffy in to the water, it's mostly an indirect fight.
I'm not sure what I've said is clear, but hopefully you get the point. Maybe this is how New World fights will progress, less of a physical confrontation and more of a overall strategic battle, where Luffy is trying to balance more than one thing. Or maybe the real battle hasn't started yet (although I really can't see a long battle between these two, the strength difference is quite clear).
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@i:
Clearly? Definitely not, just that a man wearing a straw hat would. Now I admit I too think that it's Luffy, I'm just saying that it's definitely possible for Oda to surprise us with somebody else.
No, Shirley 'says' it is Luffy who will destroy FI.
She explicitly said it is going to be Luffy, it was clearly Luffy she saw.
There's no doubt there.
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she clearly says "a man wearing a straw hat" , the ONLY time i recall she does claim it was luffy she tought she saw, was during the part where hody took over the square…
there is NO guarantee it IS luffy at this point, if it really is luffy she saw than why would oda show that in shadowform instead of blatently show an image of luffy, i call bullshit on this prediction in general... , not to mention that she never said "when" this destruction was going to happen.... did she?
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I like how Hody would rather avoid a fight with Luffy and just destroy everything to win the war (as opposed to the battle). The only villians we've seen do that are Enel and Moria… Enel because his ability was useless against Luffy, and Moria because he was lazy. What makes Hody's reluctancy to fight Luffy quite interesting is that it's because Luffy is stronger than him. Simple as. Oda is just showing us how much Luffy has progressed. However what Oda has done differently in this arc is put Hody in a powerful position because of another character's influence (VDD throwing Noah). Also it makes sense to have Hody weaker than Luffy in general (which as I've mentioned is a change to what we're usually used to) because he's a fishman, and one advantage he has over Luffy is the ability to move more freely underwater. So even if Hody gets a beating on land, he has a triumph card that he has used now that a bizarre situation has come along.
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It's obvious Luffy is going to destroy the island. Once he discovers why exactly Noah is so precious, he will use his unseen powerup to destroy the island and keep the arc safe.
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@$abZ:
I like how Hody would rather avoid a fight with Luffy and just destroy everything to win the war (as opposed to the battle). The only villians we've seen do that are Enel and Moria… Enel because his ability was useless against Luffy, and Moria because he was lazy. What makes Hody's reluctancy to fight Luffy quite interesting is that it's because Luffy is stronger than him. Simple as. Oda is just showing us how much Luffy has progressed. However what Oda has done differently in this arc is put Hody in a powerful position because of another character's influence (VDD throwing Noah). Also it makes sense to have Hody weaker than Luffy in general (which as I've mentioned is a change to what we're usually used to) because he's a fishman, and one advantage he has over Luffy is the ability to move more freely underwater. So even if Hody gets a beating on land, he has a triumph card that he has used now that a bizarre situation has come along.
Enel is a much better parallel.
Right now Hody is outplaying Luffy. It's more a strategic/tactical battle, something we know Luffy isn't particularly strong at (see Usopp).
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@.access:
It's obvious Luffy is going to destroy the island. Once he discovers why exactly Noah is so precious, he will use his unseen powerup to destroy the island and keep the arc safe.
Good thinking. Liking this idea much more than all "FI won't actually be destroyed" stuff. It would be a good reason, too, seeing as what holds most people back from thinking Luffy will actually destroy it is the lack of a purpose behind that action…
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Good thinking. Liking this idea much more than all "FI won't actually be destroyed" stuff. It would be a good reason, too, seeing as what holds most people back from thinking Luffy will actually destroy it is the lack of a purpose behind that action…
I also support this idea. Luffy confidently think that he is able to destroy Noah. So i think destroying FI would be possible..