Since, we know Zoro is even stronger and faster than a fishman underwater. I am expecting Zoro vs Hyozo to be underwater. I am curious how his poison works on water.
I do think Mihawk is even stronger than Rayleigh. I think the gap in strenght between Luffy and Zoro is not as big before the timeskip.
No, I don't think he is.
Franky = Luffy
That is laughable.
Since, we know Zoro is even stronger and faster than a fishman underwater. I am expecting Zoro vs Hyozo to be underwater. I am curious how his poison works on water.
I do think Mihawk is even stronger than Rayleigh. I think the gap in strenght between Luffy and Zoro is not as big before the timeskip.
I'm hoping the Zoro/Hyozo fight will be on land and in water, like a long, epic, swashbuckling extravaganza. As far as Mihawk and Rayleigh go I say pre-time skip maybe Ray would have won but he's only getting older, and with the way OP chars age I'd have to say Mihawk is in or nearing his prime (post TS I'm pretty sure he's 43?). So right now I'd say Mihawk is at least a little bit stronger.
"You were the leaves basking in the sun, and I was the root growing in the darkness"
@i:
That is laughable.
I'm hoping the Zoro/Hyozo fight will be on land and in water, like a long, epic, swashbuckling extravaganza. As far as Mihawk and Rayleigh go I say pre-time skip maybe Ray would have won but he's only getting older, and with the way OP chars age I'd have to say Mihawk is in or nearing his prime (post TS I'm pretty sure he's 43?). So right now I'd say Mihawk is at least a little bit stronger.
You haven't got the point… People assume that Post TS has given everything and Jinbei after this little "fight" is at the same level.
Back in Water 7 it was the same. Franky gave Luffy a hell of a fight... And what happened... BAAAAAM Gear 2 against Blueno and Franky has fallen down in the power scale.
Now I have the excat same feeling but not to the same scale... Luffy showed nothing against Jinbei... just a old Gear 2 attack without haki or something else. Jinbei even said "Was this everything?"
This shows me that it wasn't even near close to everything and Luffy will bring something up which will make Jinbei look in awe.
Hell Luffy has shown more skill against the PX and Kraken than against Jinbei
Now I have the excat same feeling but not to the same scale… Luffy showed nothing against Jinbei... just a old Gear 2 attack without haki or something else. Jinbei even said "Was this everything?"
While I definitely agree that Luffy isn't going all out, I think the same thing can be said about Jinbe as well.
While I definitely agree that Luffy isn't going all out, I think the same thing can be said about Jinbe as well.
Point is the "fight" has shown nothing… And yeah Jinbei hasn't shown anything as well.
But saying Jinbei is equal or whatever to post TS Luffy based on this is utterly BS.
Franky hasn't shown his best moves againt Luffy as well to his fullest...
I can easly see the monter trio ahead of him at land now.
You haven't got the point… People assume that Post TS has given everything and Jinbei after this little "fight" is at the same level.
Back in Water 7 it was the same. Franky gave Luffy a hell of a fight... And what happened... BAAAAAM Gear 2 against Blueno and Franky has fallen down in the power scale.
Now I have the excat same feeling but not to the same scale... Luffy showed nothing against Jinbei... just a old Gear 2 attack without haki or something else. Jinbei even said "Was this everything?"
This shows me that it wasn't even near close to everything and Luffy will bring something up which will make Jinbei look in awe.
Hell Luffy has shown more skill against the PX and Kraken than against Jinbei
Fair enough, you're right I was missing the point. Now that I'm more clear on what you were saying I actually agree with you. You can't really judge anything by the Luffy v. Jinbei fight because neither of them really wanted to hurt each other so why would they showcase any of their real strength? It was more of a get out of my way so I can leave as soon as possible type deal.
No problem^^ :happy:
@i:
That is laughable.
I'm hoping the Zoro/Hyozo fight will be on land and in water, like a long, epic, swashbuckling extravaganza. As far as Mihawk and Rayleigh go I say pre-time skip maybe Ray would have won but he's only getting older, and with the way OP chars age I'd have to say Mihawk is in or nearing his prime (post TS I'm pretty sure he's 43?). So right now I'd say Mihawk is at least a little bit stronger.
I am not sure if they are gonna fight on land because Oda loves to tease his readers (curiosity and expectations are essential to keep your audience interested).
Speaking of Rayleigh and Mihawk, I have noticed that prime Rayleigh and Prime Mihawk wear similar outfits:They have exactly the same design on their collar. Coincidentally, Mihawk was fully introduced during chapter 50 and Rayleigh had his full intro at the end of chapter 500. Oda has a thing for numbers.
I wonder if defeating Rayleigh was the feat that caught the WG's attention. Mihawk's past is still shrouded in mystery.
Unlikely that Mihawk defeated Rayleigh. We saw how young he was by Roger's death (19) and Ray was one year retired already by then. Ray also said:
"…there in the Loguetown plaza on that day... I hear you could see amongst the crowd many young faces... / ...that have since grown into pirates who are making a name for themselves to this day..."
And in chapter 0 Oda showed a fair few such faces, Mihawk among them.
Well retirement doesn't necessarily mean that he did not fight at all. It is not impossible that Mihawk sought and challenged Rayleigh.
No way! Lucci is a lot stronger than anyone zoro has fought up to this point. Luffy is in another league as far as the better fighter goes. That being said Luffy probably is only a little bit stronger than Zoro.
Luffy barley beat Lucci, while Zoro beat his opponent(Took long because of Zoro usual handicaps) and continued to fight other soilders.
Luffy barley beat Lucci, while Zoro beat his opponent(Took long because of Zoro usual handicaps) and continued to fight other soilders.
Luffy beat Blueno who was a mid-tier (he was ranked 4th in terms of douriki) and 1000 marines prior to his fight with Lucci. Not to mention, Lucci was almost twice as strong as Kaku, had more experience with his DF and had an arguably more powerful DF since it was a predator type which was noted as making the user much more aggressive.
Luffy barley beat Lucci, while Zoro beat his opponent(Took long because of Zoro usual handicaps) and continued to fight other soilders.
The legendary… "poor guy Zoro is always handicaped" myth...
Seriously... Besides against Hatchan and Kuma (where he would have lost after all)... Where was he more handicaped or even at all handicaped compared to Luffy and/or Sanji.
The legendary… "poor guy Zoro is always handicaped" myth...
Seriously... Besides against Hatchan and Kuma (where he would have lost after all)... Where was he more handicaped or even at all handicaped compared to Luffy and/or Sanji.
Well at Alabaster - Mr 1 cut him up so much he was at the brink of death :P But that wasn't a handicap he started the fight with.
Pell survived because he is a Falcon - Stop using him as a bad example.
The Peregrine Falcon reaches faster speeds than any other animal on the planet when performing the stoop,which involves soaring to a great height and then diving steeply at speeds of over 320 km/h (200 mph)
Well at Alabaster - Mr 1 cut him up so much he was at the brink of death :P But that wasn't a handicap he started the fight with.
Like you said… This wasn't a handicap.
But I will list it...
Mr 1. He was perefectly fine but he wasn't able to beat Mr 1's defense. But this isn't a handicap. If yes Luffy against Croc and hell even Sanji against Mr 2 cuz of his own stupid reason had to look a way to break the defense.
Against Ohm. No handicap
Against Kaku... What handicap? He was perfectly fine against him. If you are thinking that the handcuffing with Usopp against half-serious Kaku and Jabura was a handicap than I dunno. Luffy to this time had to search for Lucchi and Sanji let himself being beaten up by Khalifa... So where was the handicap?
Against Ryuuma... Yeah he had one sword less. So what? Physically he was perfectly fine. Sanji had an even bigger handicap against Absalom cuz he had to protect Nami
Against Oars. No handicap. he had a fight before but like I said above. Even Sanji took more damage than Zoro had
Against Hodi... Hodi was fodder for him. Even in water. Yeah it was a handicap but on the same time Luffy "owned" VDD while tied in ropes.
Like I said... The only 2 times he was truly handicaped was against Hatchan and Kuma. it is just a myth of some people of the poot Zoro is always handicaped
I wonder if defeating Rayleigh was the feat that caught the WG's attention. Mihawk's past is still shrouded in mystery.
I think it is safer for us to assume at the moment that being able to duel evenly with Shanks, a Yonkou, is enough of a feat to warrant inclusion in the shichibukai. Kind of like Moriah was famous for fighting one-on-one versus Kaido. And Crocodile challenging WB.
The legendary… "poor guy Zoro is always handicaped" myth...
Seriously... Besides against Hatchan and Kuma (where he would have lost after all)... Where was he more handicaped or even at all handicaped compared to Luffy and/or Sanji.
You make a good point, especially because in the Kaku vs. Zoro fight there wasn't really a handicap. Sure, there was the cuffs incident with Sogeking, but likewise Kaku had to deal with Jyabura butting in. Once those two left the fight with Kaku is pretty much a completely fair fight.
I think people generally highlight Zoro's handicaps because usually the handicaps always contribute to his character growth in some way. Zoro's ambition involves becoming the strongest, so his deal is overcoming massive obstacles(cutting steel, having a long-range attack, having to enter a fight in a weaker state) and still winning no matter what. It's more a part of his character, while Sanji's character shines when he pulls off a great strategy or pulls a victory to defend honor and chivalry, because that's the kind of character he is. Luffy, meanwhile, has his great moments when he defends an idea by defeating an enemy (usually an idea revolving around his simple code of fighting for friends.) He's not about overcoming handicaps as much as Zoro.
Something similar goes for characters being cowards. Nami and Chopper act like cowards a lot, but Usopp is the one acknowledged as the huge coward of the crew, mostly because that goes with his personality, his character, and his growth. It boosts his development if he tries to run away but then decides to fight.
!
!
!
!
!
!
Cabaji- Handicap
Nyaban Brothers- Handicap
Hatchan- Handicap
Arlong- Handicap
Kuma- Handicap
Kizaru- Handicap
Now Don't get the wrong idea of my Quoting Kuma and Kizaru, suggesting that zoro could have beaten them…. No he couldn't even at full strength.
But they were infact handicap's since his previous injuries were holding him back to go all out.
Kizaru''s disappointment in zoro, and praising the other supernova's was something that could have been appraisal for zoro if not for his previous injury.
Zoro's been fighting with Handicap's since the beginning of one piece.
His considered to be Luffy's equal from east blue, to Early grand line.
In fact maybe stronger in East blue.
sky island and after, luffy's been ahead.
After Timeskip we don't know where they stand.
Luffy will be Stronger than zoro in the end.
!
Luffy will have his own Status Above zoro.
zoro will have his own status of Sanji.
If anyone is Dreaming of having Zoro beat Luffy you need to rethink it.
If anyone is Dreaming of having Sanji beat Zoro you need to rethink it.
In the end luffy will have accomplished feats above zoro's
And Zoro will have Above Sanji.
If you see it that way, each SH always has handicaps during their fights
for example
Sanji vs Gin - Handicap by being beaten up by pearl before
Sanji vs Pearl - Handicap cuz he wasn't allowed to strike back cuz of Zeff
Sanji vs Kurobi - Handicap cuz of swimming after Luffy against a Fishmen
Sanji vs Absalom - Nami as handicap + taken a stab in the back
Same for Luffy
vs Croc - Handicap cuz of the poison
vs Enel - golden bell on his arm
and and and
And the Nyaban brothers… they were fodder after all. zoro just needed his swords. Same for Cabaji.
I took their opponents seriously up from arlong Park. And besides Hatchan and Kuma... Sorry Arlong was for Luffy after all... there was no handicap in any fight. You can say against Kizaru he was handicaped... but hell even if not, he could have done nothing.
Point is... Up from the GL Zoro had no physical handicap against any of his major opponents. Not against Mr1, not against Kaku, not against Ohm and not against Ryuuma.
Since this is a topic about strength Lets make it clear of what people mean when they say Handicap, Strength wise.
Its the fact that Zoro is made to enter fights while retaining injuries from his previous fights.
Or
Its the fact that his made to enter fights when his missing his weapons.
Cabaji- Handicap- Previous fight buggy injury.
Nyaban Brothers- Handicap- Missing swords.
Hatchan- Handicap- Hawkeye wound
Arlong- Handicap- Hawkeye wound, Doesn't matter if he was for luffy… Zoro could have beat him if not for the injury.
Ryuuma- Handicap- Missing Sword
Kuma- Handicap- previous injury Oars, Moria.
Kizaru- Handicap- Previous Injury Kuma
It doesn't matter if YOU took their opponents seriously up from arlong Park., since East blue seems weak now compared to who they fight currently; for them back than it was there starting point.
The only one i'll give you from your example is the Pearl one.
Sanji vs Gin - Handicap by being beaten up by pearl before
Sanji vs Pearl - Handicap cuz he wasn't allowed to strike back cuz of Zeff
Sanji vs Kurobi - Handicap cuz of swimming after Luffy against a Fishmen
Sanji vs Absalom - Nami as handicap + taken a stab in the back
Sanji vs Gin was fair, 1 was wounded other was ill, and Sanji Lost.
Sanji vs kurobi not a handicap, Sanji's Strength power did not decrease due to trying to save luffy. If Sanji was strong enough he could have K'O'ed Kurobi under water. This topic is about STRENGTH/handicap.
Sanji vs Absalom not a handicap, He was stabbed in that same fight by the same opponent…. how is that a handicap when your opponent stabs you when your fighting him.
Trying to not drop nami and taking pointless hits when in the end you end of dropping her is not a handicap... he could have carried nami and still use his legs and beat Absalom. :ninja:
Also Absalom would not have attacked nami anyways.
**Seriously though
How many times has Sanji entered fights retaining his previous injuries,** Pearl and Jabura only come to mind. while for zoro its all the time, if not injury his missing his weapons. while Sanji Receives his injuries for his on going fights due to his Weakness(chivalry) Not from his previous fights. Which cannot be called a handicap.
Since this is a topic about strength Lets make it clear of what people mean when they say Handicap, Strength wise.
Its the fact that Zoro is made to enter fights while retaining injuries from his previous fights.
Or
Its the fact that his made to enter fights when his missing his weapons.
Cabaji- Handicap- Previous fight buggy injury.
Nyaban Brothers- Handicap- Missing swords.
Hatchan- Handicap- Hawkeye wound
Arlong- Handicap- Hawkeye wound, Doesn't matter if he was for luffy… Zoro could have beat him if not for the injury.
Ryuuma- Handicap- Missing Sword
Kuma- Handicap- previous injury Oars, Moria.
Kizaru- Handicap- Previous Injury Kuma
It doesn't matter if YOU took their opponents seriously up from arlong Park., since East blue seems weak now compared to who they fight currently; for them back than it was there starting point.
The only one i'll give you from your example is the Pearl one.
Sanji vs Gin - Handicap by being beaten up by pearl before
Sanji vs Pearl - Handicap cuz he wasn't allowed to strike back cuz of Zeff
Sanji vs Kurobi - Handicap cuz of swimming after Luffy against a Fishmen
Sanji vs Absalom - Nami as handicap + taken a stab in the backSanji vs Gin was fair, 1 was wounded other was ill, and Sanji Lost.
Sanji vs kurobi not a handicap, Sanji's Strength power did not decrease due to trying to save luffy. If Sanji was strong enough he could have K'O'ed Kurobi under water. This topic is about STRENGTH/handicap.
Sanji vs Absalom not a handicap, He was stabbed in that same fight by the same opponent…. how is that a handicap when your opponent stabs you when your fighting him.
Trying to not drop nami and taking pointless hits when in the end you end of dropping her is not a handicap... he could have carried nami and still use his legs and beat absalom. :ninja:
**Seriously though
How many times has Sanji entered fights retaining his previous injuries,** Pearl and Jabura only come to mind. while for zoro its all the time, if not injury his missing his weapons. while Sanji Receives his injuries for his on going fights due to his Weakness(chivalry) Not from his previous fights. Which cannot be called a handicap.
Ok so we have a different view of a handcicap.
Like I said. If you count a missing sword against Ryuuma a handicap but Sanji protecting Nami against an invisible man not… than dunno. Look at it that way
Sanji vs Gin was fair, 1 was wounded other was ill, and Sanji Lost.
I think maybe you need to reread that fight. The fight ended when Gin got poisoned. He didn't fight with it at all.
I don't really care about this argument as a whole, though. Zoro fights with handicaps a lot, but not all the time. But then again, there are a lot of situations that various other crewmates face with a handicap as well. And really, nearly all of the winnable fights you named for Zoro were from East Blue.
I think maybe you need to reread that fight. The fight ended when Gin got poisoned. He didn't fight with it at all.
I don't really care about this argument as a whole, though. Zoro fights with handicaps a lot, but not all the time. But then again, there are a lot of situations that various other crewmates face with a handicap as well. And really, nearly all of the winnable fights you named for Zoro were from East Blue.
That's what I'm talking about.
And I didn't want to bring up the Gin fight because of my Sanji fanboy status. People believe that Gin won fair and square.
But yeah itis really a shame that Sanji wasn't able to win in EL against a fishmen under water… Zoro probably could OHKO Kurobi under water to that time :happy: And so it isn't a handicap
I think maybe you need to reread that fight. The fight ended when Gin got poisoned. He didn't fight with it at all.
I don't really care about this argument as a whole, though. Zoro fights with handicaps a lot, but not all the time. But then again, there are a lot of situations that various other crewmates face with a handicap as well. And really, nearly all of the winnable fights you named for Zoro were from East Blue.
!
What i meant by ill was his hunger, not poison, and this is when the fight ended before the poison.
also East blue or not people are just tired of seeing zoro enter fights when his half dead.
i just hope when he enters his future fights, he stops suffering from previous injuries.
! http://i6.mangareader.net/one-piece/61/one-piece-2421769.jpg
What i meant by ill was his hunger, not poison, and this is when the fight ended before the poison.
What are you talking… To that time Gin already received his meal from Sanji. He was hungred the first time he came to the Baratie. Sanji gave him food and he left. Not he was hungered but Krieg and his crew, which he brought with him after seeing that Sanji was so nice giving him food
he was perfectly fine in that fight. Sanji was having wounds from Pearl and was handicaped.
But yeah he lost fair and square... So please take the advice and reread the arc once again
But here...
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2098-4/one-piece/chapter-45.html
And that was waaaaay before the fight
What i meant by ill was his hunger, not poison, and this is when the fight ended before the poison.
Kish already responded to this, but he wasn't hungry. He was emotional because Sanji saved his life by giving him food back when he WAS hungry.
also East blue or not people are just tired of seeing zoro enter fights when his half dead.
i just hope when he enters his future fights, he stops suffering from previous injuries.
He's had to fight with notable crippling injuries twice in the entire series. Once at the end of East Blue and once at the end of the first half of the Grand Line. It'll probably happen one more time at the end of the New World. There was a whole lot of Grand Line in which he fought while perfectly healthy.
What are you talking… To that time Gin already received his meal from Sanji. He was hungred the first time he came to the Baratie. Sanji gave him food and he left. Not he was hungered but Krieg and his crew, which he brought with him after seeing that Sanji was so nice giving him food
he was perfectly fine in that fight. Sanji was having wounds from Pearl and was handicaped.
But yeah he lost fair and square... So please take the advice and reread the arc once again
But here...
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2098-4/one-piece/chapter-45.html
And that was waaaaay before the fight
Gin was half dead, he received some noodles, didnt heal his injuries, he comes back and receives more injuries from krieg.
!
!
Look at Gins face even before they fight. and than he comes back and kriegs attacks him.
His also emotionally suffering like urouge said.
It was a fair fight both ways, and Gin was clearly stronger.
Yeah think what you want^^
Gin was stronger and they had a fair fight. but now a grapping to the shoulder is a major handicap…
By that logic Sanji was even more injured cuz of Zeff beating the shit out of him and later on Pearl was injuring him once more. And read this panel at the upper left.
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2129-9/one-piece/chapter-61.html
But that shit has nothing to do with it anymore. So I'll stop it right now. it is a myth like the Zoro handcap shit
He's had to fight with notable crippling injuries twice in the entire series. Once at the end of East Blue and once at the end of the first half of the Grand Line. It'll probably happen one more time at the end of the New World. There was a whole lot of Grand Line in which he fought while perfectly healthy.
The only Reason am Posting here is the fact that Kishido is claiming that zoro's handicaps are myth, when in fact there constant.
The legendary… "poor guy Zoro is always handicaped" myth...
Seriously... Besides against Hatchan and Kuma (where he would have lost after all)... Where was he more handicaped or even at all handicaped compared to Luffy and/or Sanji.
Others have there Weakness too like franky's colo etc..
but for zoro its more the fighting with injuries that's goes on too much for him.
his sword missing are not a big issue.
Yeah think what you want^^
Gin was stronger and they had a fair fight. but now a grapping to the shoulder is a major handicap…
By that logic Sanji was even more injured cuz of Zeff beating the shit out of him and later on Pearl was injuring him once more.
But that shit has nothing to do with it anymore. So I'll stop it right now. it is a myth like the Zoro handcap shit
They were both fighting with previous injuries, who was more hurt most likely sanji.
but both injured and Gin won 2 or 3 types of handicaps going against him.
The only Reason am Posting here is the fact that Kishido is claiming that zoro's handicaps are myth, when in fact there constant.
Others have there Weakness too like franky's colo etc..
but for zoro its more the fighting with injuries that's goes on too much for him.
his sword missing are not a big issue.
Do you even have understood what Urouge has said? He like me is saying that Zoro was only majorly handicaped 2 times..: i was saying exactly the same.
And yeah gin was stronger… So you can be glad and stop discussing it
Do you even have understood what Urouge has said? He like me is saying that Zoro was only majorly handicaped 2 times..: i was saying exactly the same.
And yeah gin was stronger… So you can be glad and stop discussing it
well its all good when you understand that its not a myth, and Gin won clearly.
well its all good when you understand that its not a myth, and Gin won clearly.
Yeah you are totally right :happy:
I wonder if Gin will have a role in the NW.
Seeing how Oda introduces all the time old characters, iam a bit curious why Gin hasnt so far shown himself again, even when he said that his journey would also go to the GL once more. I dont think that he would now be anywhere near Sanhi`s strenght, but it would still be cool to see what he made over the last years and how strong he got.
I know it sounds cliched (alot of manga's have done this.)
But maybe, Sanji's shoes have weights. And eventually he will pull them off.
And his kicks will become alot stronger. Enabling some new kind of moves.But honestly, if someone needs a good powerup. It has to be either Chopper, Nami and Robin.
Wouldnt his kicks become faster, and not stronger, considering that the weight of the shoes would actually give the kick a bigger impact in some cases?
Wouldnt his kicks become faster, and not stronger, considering that the weight of the shoes would actually give the kick a bigger impact in some cases?
Except if they were so heavy that they reduced his speed so much that the gain in momentum actually gives him more power…. But then again - that's mostly a DB concept which I hope won't show up like this. Weighted shoes? Come on...
about 90% of any argument having to do with now that has been seeing the East Blue used as reference should be ignored or better yet used to wipe one ass
fandom here isnt gonna change anything to all those going crazy over Sanji-Hell yea he kicks ass no question, and he could definetly hold more than his own against the other two but we need to inspect their hierarchy as well
While yes Luffy is undoubtedly the strongest (fitting for one called captain) since the start of the series its been heavily implied that Zoro is of the same league as Luffy and couldve been seen as more of a captain by some
Zoros train of thought also is one commendable of a captain, especially in Water 7 when Usopp declared his resignation as a SH- That in of itself spoke volumes because Luffy was not about to take action befitting his role on that ship-and besides if Zoro had to fill in as captain being first mate, wouldn't he require to have the same power as the previous captain to fill their shoes?
Luffy is the captain so being the strongest would be the must in that situation
On the handicap situation-
Luffy- His trend seems to be that of a temporary handicap. He gets clobbered, loses for like 3chapters, gets back up and mauls ass (barring crocs fight of course)
Zoro- This poor fellow has had so much shit done to him idk how he lives, Manga ppl are fucking insane. i would even go back to say his handicaps started since the second arc he appeared in, its just always been that way with this one. Mihawk, Oars, Kuma, Kizaru- all major characters that cut ass on him and he kept trying to get up and fight regardless of the handicaps. His truly are the worst and no thats not an opinion. Some are caused by his chivalry, but we should expect that from him by now.
Sanji- This one also causes shit on himself because hes a horny blonde. Kalifa kicked him into a soapy oblivion because he couldnt harm a woman. Absalom got off cheap shots cuz he didnt want nami to ruin her dress. He stood up to Kuma and Zoro knocked him out so that he may live. His honor is without question though clearly sticking his neck out for the crew and offering himself before marimo took the bullet
I would also add in the Bon Clay fight to Sanji's list of. Things he brings on himself because of his obsession with women. I mean that was just silly. He was looking directly at Bon and saw the change, but still swooned like an idiot.
I feel that Zoro will probably have a slight edge above him as Zoro is specifically a fighter. Sanji trained but cooking and women seemed to be more of a focus.
Well in my eyes Zoro has already a slightly edge and it is OK. Sanji can keep up with the level but there are probably some gaps.
Who cares. At the end this 3 will still be at the top of the world
I think it is sort of unfair for Zoro to have Sanji always on equal grounds, especially during Enies Lobby. Zoro has been shown training so many times, Sanji, uh, how many times? LOL
I have been wanting to see Gin to appear in the series for a good while, and I have a feeling he will be shown eventually. Seriously, I feel that if Gin just mastered quicker movement, he would be a force to be reckoned with. A huge steel ball like that in your face in an instant would be difficult to recover from.
Luffy isn't training as well. Or do you see him training?
Do you seriously want to see the SHs training all the time. Zoro has no role so he can train in his free time. Sanji is cooking and Luffy is doing shit. This isn't DB where we have to see everyone training
What still baffles me is that people still believe that Zoro or Sanji are anywhere near Luffy now. There was a whole arc dedicated to exactly that topic: Enies Lobby.
Luffy just plays in another league now, like every captain compared to his crew.
I don't want to get into power debated cuz they will end in shitstorm. Yeah Luffy is the main character and of course at the top.
But yeah EL. Please look in what condition Luffy was after the fight compared to Sanji and Zoro. Luffy is always fighting a lot stronger guys… But he has much more problems and is ending lying in a bed or heavily injured not able to walk anymore.
I don't want to get into power debated cuz they will end in shitstorm. Yeah Luffy is the main character and of course at the top.
But yeah EL. Please look in what condition Luffy was after the fight compared to Sanji and Zoro. Luffy is always fighting a lot stronger guys… But he has much more problems and is ending lying in a bed or heavily injured not able to walk anymore.
That's because it's a plot device. Luffy sacrificing his own health and life for his friends has always been a theme of his, so much that after the Oars fight the whole crew was worried about how much his new fighting style was cutting into his health. Zoro's power-ups are NOT like Gear 2nd, since it hasn't been mentioned that any power-up Zoro does takes away from his life.
The manga will always avoid the question of whether Zoro is stronger than Luffy, but we can always assume Luffy is stronger merely from the fact that Luffy can defeat people that Zoro can't. And sure, Zoro always gets hyped up as having the strength of a captain but like one of the supernovas said in Sabaody, that only says more about the actual captain.
Personally i believe Luffy is quite the bit stronger and this was showcased in enies lobby Zoro and Sanji both fought pretty much equal aganist there opponents where as luffy in gear 2 clearly had the advantage over a Lucci with a douriki twice that of Jyabura and Kaku not including his devil fruit.
And the whole Zoro handicapped thing is ridiculous its a common trait in mangas to keep people guessing about strengths.The only reason Zoro and others are handicapped is for plot reasons the strongest characters either hold back there strength or have a handicap to create tension without them losing strength credibility
Saying that when it comes down to the main fights with real credible opponants Zoro has not been handicapped.
Personally i believe Luffy is quite the bit stronger and this was showcased in enies lobby Zoro and Sanji both fought pretty much equal aganist there opponents where as luffy in gear 2 clearly had the advantage over a Lucci with a douriki twice that of Jyabura and Kaku not including his devil fruit.
And the whole Zoro handicapped thing is ridiculous its a common trait in mangas to keep people guessing about strengths.The only reason Zoro and others are handicapped is for plot reasons the strongest characters either hold back there strength or have a handicap to create tension without them losing strength credibility
Saying that when it comes down to the main fights with real credible opponants Zoro has not been handicapped.
Yeah but Zoro and Sanji fought equal or better … they owned them after their power ups even in their zoan forms.
So we dunno. Don't get me wrong. I see Luffy above them a bit as well... But not to the scale some believes cuz of the Douriki thing. People simply say... Lucchi was twice as strong than Kaku and Jabura ignoring that this 2 went down much more easily than Lucchi
Zoro only got off two attacks that actually damaged Kaku but in essence he pretty much one hit koed him. Most of the fight was just Zoro taking damage unable put the hurt on kaku.
Luffy and Sanji both had to dogfight it out with their enemies, although Sanji managed to pull off a one-hit finisher in the end. Luffy usually ends his fights with multiple blows and insane stamina if the enemy is too strong for him.
This is off topic but I really want Zoro to be the next one to get upset and try to leave the crew. It would probably be a few hundred chapters from now but the emotion and pure win of the arc would be amazing. Especially since Luffy got him to join at gunpoint and by taking his precious "promise" sword hostage. Everybody else was crazy enough to agree to join without being coerced too much.
If Zoro left the crew he wouldn't be coming back.
That is the most retarded fanfic i've read in a while, thank god you don't write the manga.
Zoro will never do that. Entire point of him taking Luffy's pain and then throwing away his pride by asking Mihawk to train him was to show how far his loyalty to Luffy goes. After going that far there is really no scenario thinkable that would make him want to leave besides Luffy taking the crew down the wrong path.
What still baffles me is that people still believe that Zoro or Sanji are anywhere near Luffy now. There was a whole arc dedicated to exactly that topic: Enies Lobby.
Luffy just plays in another league now, like every captain compared to his crew.
EL is old news. And then TB happened and we saw both fighters have power and stamina to handle Oars meaning they could defend from G3&G2. The arc ending with Zoro taking up all of Luffy's pain is the same as taking in some on his experience. Like Kishido said EL showed all are about on par before Gears. Assume their douriki range in the 3000s since Zoans would have increased Kaku&Jyabura physical strength yet Zoro and Sanji faired better against those forms than Luffy did base Lucci. Oda has made sure to lessen the gap between the three since EL.
He even subtly shows their power difference against the Pacifistas. Sanji uses his strongest move while Zoro and Luffy uses medium level attacks. Post-TS Sanji uses what is probably a mid-lo level attack for him now, Luffy a Jet Pistol+Haki, Zoro an unnamed cut with all his swords. Then Oda has both Zoro and Luffy take out the leading antagonist(not a boss and their right hand) despite being disadvantaged within two chapters of each other. Oda gives us plenty of clues that Zoro and Luffy are supposed to be near equals again.
After the Usopp vs. Luffy, Kuma Sacrafice and Mihawk begging incident, their is no way zoro is leaving the crew.
Now will he fight luffy is a whole another topic.
To lets say bring luffy back in Line… or remind him once more his a captain etc.
To late. Ryuksgelus got in before me.
besides Zoro already received his chapter title "first person"
besides Zoro already received his chapter title "first person"
It's because he was the first person that him leaving would have such a huge effect. Not to mention that the way he joined was controversial. I wouldn't be surprised if Luffy did something later on that went against Zoro's dream and Zoro left without cutting Luffy's stomach open. Some might call it stupid/retarded but if you want the most emotional internal crew problem, Zoro leaving would be the at the top of the list. I wouldn't mind if there was a manga based on Zoro since he's the only one in the crew who doesn't act retarded.
Zoro will never do that. Entire point of him taking Luffy's pain and then pride by asking Mihawk to train him was to show how far his loyalty to Luffy goes. After going that far there is really no scenario thinkable that would make him want to leave.
Some might call what Zoro did loyalty, or they might call it what I call it "Zoro being what Zoro is, a real man." Zoro always takes responsibility for his s*** that's why he's so awesome.
