Right now, Caribou's role is one of the greatest "?" in my view. A serious threat, a joke character? Oda seems to be planning something bigger for him, but i have no idea what.
I doubt he's gonna end as a General Zombie though.
Chapter 620: "The Theme Park We Dreamed Of" Discussion
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Personaly, I think he is more of a joke character.
I Miss COribou. :(
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Yeah, but he's still a Logia, so technically only Luffy could beat him, for all we know…unless Oda use him as just a fodder to reveal another Strawhat(s) having Haki.
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There are other ways to defeat Logia users. Caribou isn't the first villain with that kind of ability.
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Heat him up a bit and he won't be able to move.
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I don't think Caribou is a joke character. Oda has been building him since the timeskip ended. Yes, he may have been treated as a pushover when he got aboard the Sunny, but he had a pretty good reason to lay low and pretend to be a weakling back there. While I don't see him as strong fighter, his abilities, cunning and viciousness make him a pretty big threat.
He's got a bounty of 210 million. That's a pretty high threat level to the government.
And I think Coribou will appear again. When Caribou is finally confronted, it would be cool for Coribou to be with him. Both of them have high bounties.
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I dunno… the guy does have a very big bounty, so I don't think he would be a pushover. While I do think Luffy, Zoro and Sanji are stronger than him, he's also cunning and devious enough to get some advantage over them.
I don't know what kind of role Caribou will have in this arc. Something tells me that maybe he will kidnap the princess and take her over somewhere else while the Strawhats deal with the NFP, thus connecting this arc to the next (a rescue arc that could lead the story back into the unresolved slavery theme). So Caribou, would be a villain for another arc, not this one.
We just had a slave rescue, and we already had a multi-arc rescue arc sequence.
Plus what slavery theme?
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Also I have got to know what is up with their crew.
Are those clones ? Siblings ? Mutants made using Coribo's ability ? What ?!
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This post is deleted!
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I think Caribou is going to be the evil human that will cause problems and make a big mess that "justifies" Hodi's views.
If this is supposed to be racial conflict we can't just have the Strawhats and random pirates, we need a bad human too.
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It'd sure be hilarious if Caribou's crew actually died. That was such a great panel… But if Sanji can just swim out of his bubble and not get crushed by water pressure, I suppose those idiots are still alive too. As for Caribou himself, I keep forgetting the dude exists. Then he shows up and I'm like "Oh. It's you again. Sigh..."
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Are we obliged to consider Caribou a human ?
Because there's a nice species of foot fungus he could proudly represent.
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I know, but it's a possibility. And Caribou doesn't seem to "belong" in this arc, so even if my theory is wrong, he may tie into another future arc.
On the contrary: Caribou personifies Hodi's view of humanity, incorporating all the vile, negative aspects of the global society that has repressed his people for so long. He is the baseline, to which the Strawhats can eventually provide a counter-point, opening the eyes of Hodi and co. to the presence of humans who can support the cause for Fish/Merman Equality proposed by Queen Otohime, if not the hardline Fishman Supremacy rhetoric of Arlong.
The current struggle is about the methods of the coming Fish/Merman revolution: whether it will be a moderately peaceful movement for integration with the rest of the world or a violent separation from it. The latter view, which Hodi currently embraces, is tragically self-destructive… Fishmen may be persecuted now, but they're still an official part of the World Government. Take that away and whatever meager protections that afforded them will be gone, while none of their people's problems go with them.
Caribou, I imagine, may well turn out to be the "end-boss" of this arc, with Hodi and crew serving as something akin to Wiper: an antagonist at first, but later an ally against a greater evil.
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@Monkey:
Plus what slavery theme?
The underlying theme that links Boa Hancock, the Celestial Dragons, fishmen, mermen and Doflamingo together. It has been hinted ever since the Marijois meeting after Crocodile's defeat (remember when Doflamingo said that his "business in the island" were going well?). It will reapper again when either Hancock, Doflamingo or the Celestial Dragons return to the story. It won't just end with Fishman Island arc.
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The underlying theme that links Boa Hancock, the Celestial Dragons, fishmen, mermen and Doflamingo together. It has been hinted ever since the Marijois meeting after Crocodile's defeat (remember when Doflamingo said that his "business in the island" were going well?). It will reapper again when either Hancock, Doflamingo or the Celestial Dragons return to the story. It won't just end with Fishman Island arc.
I think you are confusing the slavery with being the theme, when it has only ever been a part of actual themes.
Like racism (Fishmen), or the corruption of the government (Celstial Dragons). -
The thing that bothered me with Caribou's crew is that they all looked alike and it's probably not a devil fruit power or else they're all dead. So either Oda got lazy with the design or Caribou's crew is just made up of the Caribou brothers and a bunch of "twins/triplets etc" or something.
Caribou himself is so convoluted. His characterization seems to be going all over the place, so it's hard to really pinpoint his role. The Tennryubito mention this chapter did make me remember that Shalila still swore revenge against Luffy. I was hoping for something in Sabaody but that didn't happen. Maybe Caribou will succeed after all and she'll buy the mermaids?
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@Monkey:
I think you are confusing the slavery with being the theme, when it has only ever been a part of actual themes.
Like racism (Fishmen), or the corruption of the government (Celstial Dragons).Like I said, it's an underlying theme. Each one of those links has its own theme, but the slavery links all those themes together.
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Like I said, it's an underlying theme. Each one of those links has its own theme, but the slavery links all those themes together.
I don't think it has any importance beyond being a tool Oda uses to show how bad the government is and how hard Fishmen have it.
That's all he's used it for anyway.
So it's not really a theme of any kind. -
@Monkey:
I don't think it has any importance beyond being a tool Oda uses to show how bad the government is and how hard Fishmen have it.
That's all he's used it for anyway.
So it's not really a theme of any kind.Luffy and Hancock becoming allies falls into neither of those categories, and it was caused by slavery.
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Like I said, it's an underlying theme. Each one of those links has its own theme, but the slavery links all those themes together.
I think it's actually the other way around: slavery and racial persecution are specific themes brought up in a number of arcs, particularly recent ones, but the underlying (or maybe overarching) theme is that of the corruption of the World Government and its nobility which allows such atrocities to not only exist, but thrive.
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Wow, what an excellent chapter, chock full of info and more exciting things to come!
I personally dig Jinbe's hair back then, it kind of looked like Garp's hair when he was younger.
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@Robo:
Luffy and Hancock becoming allies falls into neither of those categories, and it was caused by slavery.
Hancock was a slave of Celestial Dragons, that is part of the government thing.
In fact the whole slavery thing is part of the government because they tolerate it right in front of their bases and Dragons and Kings seem to be the main customers. -
I think it's actually the other way around: slavery and racial persecution are specific themes brought up in a number of arcs, particularly recent ones, but the underlying (or maybe overarching) theme is that of the corruption of the World Government and its nobility which allows such atrocities to not only exist, but thrive.
I think overarching is a better term for the WG corruption. In my mind, an overarching theme is one that can be felt over the entire series; each arc has its specific theme, but the overarching theme is always present. Now, an underlying theme (like the slavery) is felt in some arcs, but don't gets more important than the specific themes of those arcs.
Kinda like: WG Corruption (overarching) is bigger and generates the fishmen persecution (specific), which in turn is linked to slavery (underlying). The underlying theme will return again and again later, but will always be less important than the then-specific theme.
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I'm not sure you get what a theme is in a story.
It is not just a thing that we see a bunch of times. -
I think that Caribou is the wildcard. He's there to make sure that even when things are going in a certain direction, we'll never know when he might suddenly pop up and cause a mess.
The only problem is that Caribou seems way too much of a pussy to do anything on his own…
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@Monkey:
I'm not sure you get what a theme is in a story.
It is not just a thing that we see a bunch of times.I'm not sure if you know what a theme is.
From wikipedia: "A theme is a main idea, moral, or message, of an essay, paragraph, movie, television program, book or video game. The message may be about life, society, or human nature. Themes often explore timeless and universal ideas and are almost always implied rather than stated explicitly."
From Dictionary.com: 2. a unifying or dominant idea, motif, etc., as in a work of art
WG corruption is a theme; slavery is also a theme. One may be a subset of the other, yet both are themes. The fact that slavery is a recurring motif in the story (ever since Nami was enslaved by Arlong) just proves that.
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@Monkey:
Hancock was a slave of Celestial Dragons, that is part of the government thing.
In fact the whole slavery thing is part of the government because they tolerate it right in front of their bases and Dragons and Kings seem to be the main customers.I didn't deny it was part of the World Government or that it made them look bad. You stated that slavery only comes up to garner sympathy for fishmen or to make the World Government look bad. In this case it was brought up to do neither of those things. The World Government looking bad may have been a side affect, but the main purpose was to make bond between Boa and Luffy.
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I'm not sure if you know what a theme is.
From wikipedia: "A theme is a main idea, moral, or message, of an essay, paragraph, movie, television program, book or video game. The message may be about life, society, or human nature. Themes often explore timeless and universal ideas and are almost always implied rather than stated explicitly."
From Dictionary.com: 2. a unifying or dominant idea, motif, etc., as in a work of art
WG corruption is a theme; slavery is also a theme. One may be a subset of the other, yet both are themes. The fact that slavery is a recurring motif in the story (ever since Nami was enslaved by Arlong) just proves that.
That is the problem, slavery isn't an idea. At least not how Oda is showing us it.
Racism is an idea, so is corruption.
And we are definitely getting into what racism is about. Slavery, nope.Just because something reoccurs does not make it a theme. Otherwise Fishmen would also be a theme.
@Robo:
I didn't deny it was part of the World Government or that it made them look bad. You stated that slavery only comes up to garner sympathy for fishmen or to make the World Government look bad. In this case it was brought up to do neither of those things. The World Government looking bad may have been a side affect, but the main purpose was to make bond between Boa and Luffy.
You may have missed what I was saying. Which was that it was a tool for other things. Not which specific things.
You have actually agreed with me here. -
I don't think Jimbe would work w/ the Straw Hats since he was a former Shichibukai. Isn't he stronger than Luffy? But then again, if Oda-Sensei is planning on having a new crew member join the Straw Hats, then I don't know who it would be. Camie? Hachi?? Or will we be introduced to a new character???
Being an ex-schichibukai doesn't desqualify someone from being an strawhat. It's not confirmed but I'm sure Luffy is stronger than Jinbe now after the time-skip, we got it to make the characters more stronger and that's also exactly why somone like Camie, Hachii ou Pappug would not qualify because they are weaklings and would just cause unnecessary trouble for the crew in the New World where they all have to be strong to survive for themselves and for the others. As far as new characters goes, I'm excited for the fishman karate dojo.
I think that Caribou is the wildcard. He's there to make sure that even when things are going in a certain direction, we'll never know when he might suddenly pop up and cause a mess.
The only problem is that Caribou seems way too much of a pussy to do anything on his own…
I totally agree.
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I think it's a little too much to assume Luffy is stronger than Jimbei.
And again, I don't think the dojo is going to matter at all.
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I'd think it would be lame and feel stupid if Luffy wasn't, he suffered that much on the war and losing Ace exactly to restart and get stronger, to be prepared for the New World, to not lose anyone else. To be honest I think Sanji and Zoro are stronger than Jinbe now.
Jinbe doesn't seem to be THAT much of a top tier fighter in the New World, I know he's really strong but I believe you've got my point. Luffy can't be weak anymore because if he would become weak now the time-skip would feel worthless and as it won't be, it served its purpose and made everyone on the crew a lot stronger.
About the dojo part, it was foreshadowed before on the series, if I ain't mistaken in the same chapter Pappug commented on showing fishman's princess to Brook, Hacchi said something about the dojo, not to say about Kuroobi talking about fishman karate and everything. I don't exactly hope we'll meet a strawhat material there but I'd believe it'd be the best shot since I don' tsee anyone else beside Jinbe as a possible candidate. -
To be honest I think Sanji and Zoro are stronger than Jinbe now.
That may be true on land; however, if they were to theoretically fight right now, Jinbe is in his element. Just look at Zoro's current condition, the poor guy is drowning.
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Oh, yes, I forgot to add that. Thanks.
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I'd think it would be lame and feel stupid if Luffy wasn't, he suffered that much on the war and losing Ace exactly to restart and get stronger, to be prepared for the New World, to not lose anyone else. To be honest I think Sanji and Zoro are stronger than Jinbe now.
Jinbe doesn't seem to be THAT much of a top tier fighter in the New World, I know he's really strong but I believe you've got my point. Luffy can't be weak anymore because if he would become weak now the time-skip would feel worthless and as it won't be, it served its purpose and made everyone on the crew a lot stronger.
About the dojo part, it was foreshadowed before on the series, if I ain't mistaken in the same chapter Pappug commented on showing fishman's princess to Brook, Hacchi said something about the dojo, not to say about Kuroobi talking about fishman karate and everything. I don't exactly hope we'll meet a strawhat material there but I'd believe it'd be the best shot since I don' tsee anyone else beside Jinbe as a possible candidate.You are making it sound like being stronger than Jimbei is what the whole point of entering the New World and getting over the Ace death were about.
They were not. Getting stronger ot much stronger does not mean being stronger than Jimbei. Maybe equal and on the same level, but stronger seems like too much of a jump. Otherwise that means Luffy is stronger than Shichibukai, and they are still a force to be reckoned with.The dojo wasn't forshadowed, unless you know that it was important. A place being mentioned does not make it important or foreshadowing. Like with the other places that the sea train goes. We have not seen them have we? And they certainly were not important.
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Fantastic chapter! Great way to celebrate the new theme? lol I don't know. Sanji was freaking amazing. Giant tea cup? Where the hell did that come from?
Jinbei's explanation was good (so far), and I'm looking forward to the flashback. Oda is fantastic at them. Every flashback I can think of has been great. I can't say the same for other mangaka…
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Caribou, I imagine, may well turn out to be the "end-boss" of this arc, with Hodi and crew serving as something akin to Wiper: an antagonist at first, but later an ally against a greater evil.
Hodi and his gang are way too big of assholes to be redeemed.
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That is called bad writing. You don't just cram as much information as you can into a speech bubble every page and dump a ton of information on a reader. Your opinion is just flat wrong here. The chapters in Hunter x Hunter where Togashi crammed a shitload of information on pawning artifacts, those cards, and occasionally what somebody was thinking were some of the worst. Had he done the same with Netero's and the Ant Queens backstories it would be way less effective than just showing us what happened.
Yep just like Jesus, MLK, Abe Lincoln, Siddhartha Gautam, JFK, Ghandi, and all those other irrelevant people in history books. I mean dead people tell no tales and we all know this.
Jesus is still alive. He is God.
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Yep just like Jesus, MLK, Abe Lincoln, Siddhartha Gautam, JFK, Ghandi, and all those other irrelevant people in history books. I mean dead people tell no tales and we all know this.
Abe Lincoln's in my living room right now.
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@S.C.:
Hodi and his gang are way too big of assholes to be redeemed.
They're not "assholes", they're extremists. What's more, they're young extremists. Prove to them that the ideology of racial superiority that they adhere to is wrong and they will be forced to re-examine their belief system, which can change their outlook utterly. If done properly, even Arlong could redeem himself (not saying his crimes would be forgiven, but he could take steps to make amends for them).
I stated earlier in this thread, I think the younger Jinbei will prove more in line with Arlong with regards to his ideology at first, despite the fact that he's now so very different. I imagine the later events, those surrounding Tiger and Otohime's respective deaths, will prove to be the formative events which gave birth the honorable Jinbei we now know.
In other words, let the arc take its course before you condemn anyone as irredeemable. The sins of the past can never be wholly washed away, but in many ways that is the point.
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I don't think Jimbei will be a supremacist. There is a difference in being hateful toward humans like Fisher Tiger, and being a supremacist like Arlong.
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@Monkey:
You are making it sound like being stronger than Jimbei is what the whole point of entering the New World and getting over the Ace death were about.
They were not. Getting stronger ot much stronger does not mean being stronger than Jimbei. Maybe equal and on the same level, but stronger seems like too much of a jump. Otherwise that means Luffy is stronger than Shichibukai, and they are still a force to be reckoned with.…...
Crocodile - Moria - and Kuma being sliced by Zoro in an exhasted state.
Thats 3 Shichibukai - all within the time they had been on the GL which some speculate is less then 6 months pre-timeskip
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Crocodile took three battles to beat, Luffy was actually pretty lucky.
Moria was the same deal, a lot of luck. Luffy got help from people who had been gathering one hundred shadows. By the time he used that last move he was exhausted and badly weakened from Nightmare Luffy, and kind of self destructed by bloating.
And the Kuma slash wasn't a big deal.
If Oda really intended the Shichibukai to have been surpassed as a level, he wouldn't have them still mattering like they are. You can tell he is keeping the new ones from us too, they will likely be major foes (aside from maybe Buggy if he becomes one lol).
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@Monkey:
Crocodile took three battles to beat, Luffy was actually pretty lucky.
To converse that - Croc took 3 battles to be defeated by Luffy. Croc doesn't look better for essentually failing 3 times to kill Luffy.
Moria was the same deal, a lot of luck. Luffy got help from people who had been gathering one hundred shadows. By the time he used that last move he was exhausted and badly weakened from Nightmare Luffy, and kind of self destructed by bloating.
Really then why was Zoro saying that they had already won and Moria was just stalling with the Asguard manuver.
And the Kuma slash wasn't a big deal.
Yeah it was actually - for a person who is as fast as Kuma to not be able to avoid the blow.
If Oda really intended the Shichibukai to have been surpassed as a level, he wouldn't have them still mattering like they are. You can tell he is keeping the new ones from us too, they will likely be major foes (aside from maybe Buggy if he becomes one lol).
I think it is more that the SH's far outsurpassed regular pirates. Remember they are powering to Raftel not stopping to pillage and cause problems - The SH's have already taken out 2 of the Shichibukai 2 have resigned - 1 is their ally - Mihawk and Zoro's relationship is not clear now. So that leaves what Don and Kuma as against - 4 unknowns and 1 Ally
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They're not "assholes", they're extremists. What's more, they're young extremists. Prove to them that the ideology of racial superiority that they adhere to is wrong and they will be forced to re-examine their belief system, which can change their outlook utterly. If done properly, even Arlong could redeem himself (not saying his crimes would be forgiven, but he could take steps to make amends for them).
I stated earlier in this thread, I think the younger Jinbei will prove more in line with Arlong with regards to his ideology at first, despite the fact that he's now so very different. I imagine the later events, those surrounding Tiger and Otohime's respective deaths, will prove to be the formative events which gave birth the honorable Jinbei we now know.
In other words, let the arc take its course before you condemn anyone as irredeemable. The sins of the past can never be wholly washed away, but in many ways that is the point.
You must have forgotten this. And really, what they are is if a Fishman joins, it's a battle of Otohime and Tiger's ideals with the New Crewmate for Otohime and Jones and his gang for Tiger and for them to be the apparent threat thus far.
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@Monkey:
I don't think Jimbei will be a supremacist. There is a difference in being hateful toward humans like Fisher Tiger, and being a supremacist like Arlong.
I'm not thinking the younger Jinbei will be shown as a Fishman Supremacist per say, but almost certainly more radical than he currently is (being an advocate for a more violent movement, rather than a peaceful one). But then, we don't know that Arlong was a true Fishman Supremacist at this point yet, either. I imagine the events leading up to and surrounding the deaths of Fisher Tiger and Queen Otohime will be the formative events that make each into the man he now is (or was when last we saw him, in Arlong's case).
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I am disappointed with Fisher design. I thought he would look badass, but Arlong looks more badass sitting their. I want to see who took him out through. It might of been a admiral from 10 years ago since a admiral always get called if you attack one of those tenn
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I am disappointed with Fisher design. I thought he would look badass, but Arlong looks more badass sitting their. I want to see who took him out through. It might of been a admiral from 10 years ago since a admiral always get called if you attack one of those tenn
Yeah I know right - I mean Luffy looks totally like the type to be the Pirate king - All lanky and non serious expressions carefree attitudes.
Being Badass > Looking Badass.
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Yeah I know right - I mean Luffy looks totally like the type to be the Pirate king - All lanky and non serious expressions carefree attitudes.
Being Badass > Looking Badass.
Or you can be like Zoro and be both. I am sorry you have a different opinion, but I just thought with all this build up he was some badass looking guy.
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@S.C.:
You must have forgotten this. And really, what they are is if a Fishman joins, it's a battle of Otohime and Tiger's ideals with the New Crewmate for Otohime and Jones and his gang for Tiger and for them to be the apparent threat thus far.
You are right, I did forget that… That changes matters a little, with Hodi being callous enough to use his soldiers as unwitting fishman shields, so yes, quite a bit more of an asshole than I originally posited.
Having said that, this pushes Hodi even more solidly into the extremist camp. It is the cause that is important to him, above and beyond even the well-being of his allies (though there's always the possibility that fishman was a suspected spy or something like that and Hodi was just using the opportunity to get rid of him). Essentially, Hodi's sliding down the proverbial slippery slope... As of yet, his violence has served a greater goal, however perverted, but if he is not checked, eventually that violence will become the goal in and of itself.
If Luffy, Jinbei, and the events of this arc proceed quickly enough (and I suspect they will), they may be able to get through to Hodi before he devolves into a complete monster and does something that draws the attention of the World Government to him, which would likely end up cataclysmic for Fishman Island...