XD I read it LAAAATE
cause last year, I didnt really read the manga and I didnt even know what water 7 was
SHAME!!!!!!! D:
and I read it 4th of July
(DAMN I WAS LATE O_O)
and I was like
O__O cries for weeks XD;
okay not weeks.. but days.. I was depressed for days.. O.o
How did you first feel about the Luffy Vs. Usopp fight?
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Anyway.. sure I can accept that you feel that way, but that doesn't mean others just have to go along with it.
But that's where we get into having opinions and there's no point arguing there. :P
shrug I just don't think Oda would do somthing like have two best friends fight one another and one being unreasonably mutinous towards the other. That sums up how I feel about this whole fight and I was simply defending Usopp's actions. Having said that, I will now officially quit this argument. :P I hate this damn thing, every single forum with a W7 thread, it always rears it's big head…. so I quit. Besides, this is getting into opinions anyway... if you're mad at Usopp for standing up for what he thought was right, then fine, just say it. If you're mad at Luffy for being a Captain and looking out for his crew, then say that. That's what it usually comes down to anyway, no matter how many fact you have proving that the other was 'more right' for what he did.
Now if you'd like to get back on topic, that'd be great. :) Let me know when I can read this thread again.
I don't know why, but I like you Jack. ^^ Even if I disagree with you a bit, you're an OK guy.
O__O cries for weeks ;
I know, right? That was so sad!! It was the only time I've cried during the manga of OP.
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I know, right? That was so sad!! It was the only time I've cried during the manga of OP.
Funnily enough, after SogeKing showed up, the sadness kinda fades away. The whole drama kinda lifted, and the comedy kicks in; especially the latest chapter. Hard to believe it happened less than a week in the OP world. It's a year for us here.
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Yeah, that was really awesome the way that happened with Sogeking. Usopp was walking away, and we're all "aawwwww nooooo" and then the next panel "pffftthahahaha! omg dork!" XD
I always loved Usopp, but everything in this arc, even the fight, just made me love him so much more. Usopp = pure awesomeness of character.
But I am really looking forward to seeing everything resolved. -
But I don't want SogeKing to disappear entirely… the costume and the attitude are just too precious.
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I remember when I first saw Sogeking, I was like "HA!! HA HA!!" And walked around all day with a stupid smile on my face. xD Like, I'd be sitting in class and I'd think about it and I'd snort and people would stare. I really hope Sogeking gets a bounty.
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I'm sure we'll see Usopp dress as SogeKing again…someday, when he's beating the crap out of Van Auger (Blackbeard's sniper) in the final arc
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I think it's Van Auger. With the nickname "Supersonic".
But I don't want SogeKing to disappear entirely… the costume and the attitude are just too precious
I don't want to see it disappear entirely either, but it's ok if it does.
But the attitude…don't know what you're talking about, it's been there all along. :) -
Luffy didn't just apoligize to 'calm Usopp down', Luffy lost his head for a moment.(
Aha, and Usopp didn´t lose his head for a moment and was the calm guy in this discussion?
You actually didn´t negate me a bit. I was saying that they were both heating up and the only way to end if civilized is to apologize even if you are not the one who started it. Get what I mean? Why didn´t Usopp apologize? Don´t tell me he was the innocent victim there.
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i was depressed and sad when luffy and usopp was fighting T______T
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Aha, and Usopp didn´t lose his head for a moment and was the calm guy in this discussion?
You actually didn´t negate me a bit. I was saying that they were both heating up and the only way to end if civilized is to apologize even if you are not the one who started it. Get what I mean? Why didn´t Usopp apologize? Don´t tell me he was the innocent victim there.
I really don't think she was in disagreement with you there. I know taboo doesn't think Usopp is an innocent victim (because I read her mind). But in that case, I really don't think there's anything more to Luffy apologizing other than he really meant it. Yes, they both lost their heads and said things they didn't really mean to say, but they kind of did, because they were pissed off. That's all there is to it, really. Although I did think it was interesting that everyone kept telling Luffy to apologize but nobody seemed to be expecting Usopp to apologize for anything.
I'll be really happy when all this is worked out and we don't keep arguing about it anymore. >_< -
Never said that Luffy doesn´t really meant it. You don´t apologize like I described it above if you don´t really mean it. It´s not like Luffy didn´t do his part to take make this argument even more heated up. But it still doesn´t mean that he was wrong in what he did before. He got offended and questioned by one of his crewmates and friends in an very unpropriate manner. He was defending his integrety and authority as a captain. If Usopp wouldn´t have yelled at him first he wouldn´t have had to yell back in order that he gets through to Usopp.
The heated up argument was getting them nowhere. Therefore it needed to be ended with an apology. And in fact in ended the argument because from then on there was no yelling and shouting anymore, but then it was already to late. It doesn´t mean that Luffy did the wrong thing because he had to defend his integrity as a captain. He was just apologizing for the way he was argumenting because it wasn´t better then what Usopp did.
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Isn't it as simple as that both were equally guilty? Usopp was frustrated, because of his own failure and Going Merry, and Luffy didn't help with his straightforward attitude. I don't think it should be made more complicated than that. I even think the fight probably was a purifying experience for both of them, something that had to be done. Sure, apologies are need but they're still kids. Even at their age kids don't apologize by their own, often it's not even easy for grown-ups. They need somebody older to guide them…
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They need somebody older to guide them…
god dammit where is robin when you need herXD
but ill buy what Yoska sez cause it seems pretty resonabel.
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But that's where we get into having opinions and there's no point arguing there. :P
How about if we call it a civilized "discussion" then? :laugh:
shrug I just don't think Oda would do somthing like have two best friends fight one another and one being unreasonably mutinous towards the other. That sums up how I feel about this whole fight and I was simply defending Usopp's actions.
Trust me, I know that many here like Usopp (and yeah, I do too! He's the funniest guy on the crew) and that it would make him the bad guy if he took all the blame. But that's actually not how I see it. The mugiwara crewmembers are far from perfect people, they all have their little flaws, that's why we like them.
Now let's say I have just had all these set-backs in my life, and it's really wearing me down and making me doubt myself and feel depressed. And then a friend says something innocent, and I totally blow up in his face. The friend takes 0% of the blame here for me blowing up, because he didn't do anything wrong. But that doesn't mean I'm the bad guy here.. I had my personal reasons why it was inevitable for me to crack. I'm just a human being with all the flaws that are inherent to human beings after all..
That's basically how I feel about the Usopp-Luffy situation too. It was just really unfortunate that Usopp was going through a personal crisis which made him snap the way he did..
Again, I don't blame Usopp. It's not like he snapped 'out of the blue' for no reason. Oda did a great job of realistically leading Usopp into a very emotional state of mind.
I don't know why, but I like you Jack. ^^ Even if I disagree with you a bit, you're an OK guy.
Hehe is it just me or does it look like the girls are stepping up to keep the boys from fighting here? =) btw love ya too
Although I did think it was interesting that everyone kept telling Luffy to apologize but nobody seemed to be expecting Usopp to apologize for anything.
me too ^^ Usopp called Luffy a cold-blooded fake captain little brat.. an apology kinda seems in order..
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all i know is that their friendship will more than become stronger than before when they reconcile w/ each other :)
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Oh noz, Sabret00the hath pulled ye olde favoritism trump card. :rolleyes: You should see my argument with someone on the exact opposite side of this argument at the K-F forum where I had to defend Luffy's side for months before the guy finally just quit.
Even if Luffy has "every right" as captain to tell someone to leave, it doesn't make HIM necessarily right in doing so. It's plainly obvious that it WASN'T the right thing for him to do.
i did say that, that he wasn't nessessarily right, though i personally beleive he was, but without sounding like a twit you can see that some people on this board have a clear favourites and that sways their argument unfairly in one direction or another (some towards luffy and some towards usopp), my whole input in this thread was to insist upon his entitlement to say what he wants, Taboo felt he had no right. sums up why i'm not the biggest usopp fan, he just doesn't understand heirachy. :P
the thing is, in any other crew or more formal crew then usopp couldn't have spoken like that at all, and that really sums up the wrongs and rights of this, no luffy shouldn't have started shouting and jumped on usopp to make him understand but ultimately a good crew member understands and trusts his captains judgement and doesn't ever question it to such a degree or raised voices like that.
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i did say that, that he wasn't nessessarily right, though i personally beleive he was, but without sounding like a twit you can see that Taboo has a clear favourite, my whole input in this thread was to insist upon his entitlement to say what he wants, Taboo felt he had no right. sums up why i'm not the biggest usopp fan, he just doesn't understand heirachy. :P
I'm actually an Usopp fan, and yet I still totally agree with you. It's just that for me Usopp is a flawed individual - read: a realistic human being, which is exactly why we love him so much.
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@jackvance:
I'm actually an Usopp fan, and yet I still totally agree with you. It's just that for me Usopp is a flawed individual - read: a realistic human being, which is exactly why we love him so much.
you're right he is realistic, alot more so than Luffy or Zoro, though i recognice my friends and myself in Zoro, Sanji and Chopper and not in Usopp, i find it weird as i know one of Usopp's main purposes is to bring a touch of reality to the proceedings.
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I like an old suggestion: Usopp is Oda's personification inside the comic. But jack did sum it up pretty well, better than I could. I wonder what it would brought up if I would began to classify characters by my friends… a bunch of Usopps (or realistic human beings).
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Luffy could have diffussed the fight if he was more diplomatic about it. But he wasn't; he just got pissed off when Ussop was openly defying his power as captain. Otherwise, he wouldn't have said things like: "Shut up…this is my discision!" or "if you don't like MY discision, you can just leave," etc.
Okay, that really isn't the real Luffy talking -- the real Luffy doesn't go around giving out orders and get pissed off when a nakama defies them. But, at the same time, he's still the captain, which amongst pirates, means he's also the strongest, and the other crew looks up and admires him as the captain, etc. So if it ever came down to it, Luffy should be able to give a command to his crew and it should be carried out faithfully, even if it went against the wishes of the crewmember carrying it out. That's an iron-clad law of the pirate crew -- the Captain's orders must be absolutely obeyed. If they can't carry out the order, then they're not fit to be a pirate, or he has to be strong enough to challenge the Captain and take over the ship. Ussop tried to challenge Luffy as a pirate, and was beaten.
So essentially, the conflict happened because Luffy issued an order Ussop couldn't obey. This outcome could have been avoided, however, if Luffy had simply not ORDERED it, but rather gave Ussop time to digest it the reality and deal with it. But I will say that Ussop probably would have never accepted it fully. All the other crew members and Luffy spent less than a five minutes agonizing over the discision.
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it was good, Usopp needs to learn whos the real captain of the ship
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it was good, Usopp needs to learn whos the real captain of the ship
Ha. That sounds smart. Tell me, how do you define "good?"
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Well, I think we're all going around in circles here, and that we're mostly in agreement and just nitpicking on minor details. But I still highly disagree that "Usopp doesn't understand heirarchy". He understands just as well as anyone else, if not moreso than every other member except maybe Zoro. An interesting example being when Usopp told Robin that she can't leave without the captain's permission and she should trust Luffy. (and that scene also seems to indicate that he's had a change of heart about the situation at that point)
Usopp was willingly rebelling against the heirarchy because he thought that Luffy was doing something that was morally wrong and caused him to lose confidence in him as a captain. You may say "but ultimately a good crew member understands and trusts his captains judgement and doesn't ever question it to such a degree or raised voices like that." Sure, but but this was the kind of situation that Usopp obviously felt was so bad that he didn't even want to be with this crew anymore even though he cares about them very much and went through so many things together, of course he's going to be passionate about it. I mean, what do you expect he's just going to go, "hm, so you'r ditching a nakama, that's a shame. I don't like that. I'm leaving. bye!" -
(Insert "loud shout with despair" here)
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Uh, yeah, the title of this thread is a big spoiler, isn't it?
Don't worry, it's not a reason to despair at all. -
I think that Usopp - and I can't blame him - lost his head long before Luffy did.
If anything, Luffy was being more considerate to the Going Merry than Usopp was, do you guys really believe that the Going Merry would want to be responsible for putting it's crew in danger? That it would want to sink with the crew on it, and feasably kill Luffy - because of his Devil's fruit?
I don't. The ship no longer wanted to carry the crew, because it knew that if it did, it would bring them to harm. Usopp didn't understand this. Would you be pissed off at Luffy if he refused to let someone leave his crew? If someone said, "I've decided that I'm leaving the crew because [reason here]" (assume the member has a good reason) and then Luffy just beat him/her into submission and said "You're not allowed to leave!"
That is exactly what Usopp was doing to the Merry.
I really don't think Luffy should have said the last part, when he basically said, "If you don't like it then leave!" but if the characters were completely civil and intelligent throughout the series, so that drama was resolved without any real conflict, what would be the point in watching? Characters need to blow up every so often, they need to make mistakes.
This whole debate is hilarious because you guys have been repeating yourselves over and over again for several pages, why not just end it and accept that you've got different opinions?
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This whole debate is hilarious because you guys have been repeating yourselves over and over again for several pages, why not just end it and accept that you've got different opinions?
And what's even funnier is you are simply adding another repetitious point. This isn't a thing that can be dismissed by differences of our opinions, though. The problem is that the motivations behind each characters behavior and what they were thinking is hazy, and it hasn't been resolved. We are all making assumptions based on the evidence given.
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And what's even funnier is you are simply adding another repetitious point. This isn't a thing that can be dismissed by differences of our opinions, though. The problem is that the motivations behind each characters behavior and what they were thinking is hazy, and it hasn't been resolved. We are all making assumptions based on the evidence given.
I agree.
Anyways, it is just like politics, arguing and debating the topic is the fun part. I know for a fact when I have a discussion with someone on a forum I refresh the page impatiently until I get a response. XD Whenever I see a new episode of anything I can't wait to get on a forum to evaluate/discuss it, etc.
Repitition is a good tool to use in arguments, by the way. Otherwise someone may overturn your point or forget about it. It is also frequently used in speeches if you pay attention. =3
Ok, I have just thought WAY too much. I'm going to go drink a lot of water and slug around my room like an old hermit. -
"And what's even funnier is you are simply adding another repetitious point. This isn't a thing that can be dismissed by differences of our opinions, though. The problem is that the motivations behind each characters behavior and what they were thinking is hazy, and it hasn't been resolved. We are all making assumptions based on the evidence given."
I hadn't realized that anyone else talked about the going merry not wanting to carry the crew any further. There's no problem with making assumptions on the evidence given, it's just that it's clear none of us will get anywhere with this because no one thinks they are wrong - well, no one will admit they are wrong unless the manga gives us some clear answers, anyway.
There's no problem with repetition, it's redundancy that ruins a position/speech/whatever. There is a difference.
If someone already talked about Luffy actually being more concerned about the going merry than Usopp was, I apologize for re-stating that, I was under the impression that no one had, but I'll be honest and say that I didn't read page seven or eight, since I figured you guys had been looping all the way till now - which it seems you were.
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This whole debate is hilarious because you guys have been repeating yourselves over and over again for several pages, why not just end it and accept that you've got different opinions?
Did that already.
Since you brought it up, what's your point? Luffy didn't know about the Klablautermann, so it wasn't a real crewmember to him, just a ship that he had grown attatched to.
The Kmann didn't just jump out and say 'Hey, I don't want to carry you guys anymore, I quit', it said 'I can carry you a bit further'. Usopp was fully aware of the GM's condition, however he belived that it had potential to push ahead even if it was useless. Kinda like he believed that he could push ahead, even if he himself felt useless.
I'm quite sure the GM wouldn't want to put any of the crewmembers in harm's way, but it never voiced it out loud. I think that before it's all said and done, the Kmann will tell this to Usopp personally. That's the only way to fix this.
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I hadn't realized that anyone else talked about the going merry not wanting to carry the crew any further. There's no problem with making assumptions on the evidence given, it's just that it's clear none of us will get anywhere with this because no one thinks they are wrong - well, no one will admit they are wrong unless the manga gives us some clear answers, anyway.
I did mention that before…although it may have been in another thread. I've been in discussions about this topic so many times it's insane.
But if we only discussed facts, this would be a boring messageboard, wouldn't it?
I do think it's true that Merry was ready to rest in peace. However, you can't really say that Luffy cared MORE about Merry than Usopp, because we know that Luffy simply thought of Merry as just a ship and not the same as a person (he said so himself) and thought nothing of Merry's well-being. So that in terms of the argument between Luffy and Usopp, that point is moot. Usopp didn't really think of it that way until Franky pointed it out to him. -
I actually agree with you there, now that I think abou it. They both probably cared for Merry equally, that is to say, a whole shitload, and at the same time, they both had completely different perspectives they were going from.
I think Luffy cared about Merry's well-being, because he was willing to pay the cost of an entire ship just to repair her. But I also agree that he didn't think of Merry as a person.
I also wonder if maybe part (and I really do mean only 'part') of the reason Usopp was upset was because he felt like the Merry was his main contribution to the crew, since he was the one who got them the ship.
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Maybe because the going Merry is a ship instead of a human, its Kman can 'carry over' to whatever new ship that the straw hats get (presumably Franky will build one).
So that, in a sense, the going merry will never die, even though its body did. I'm sure that'd make Usopp pretty happy.
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I also wonder if maybe part (and I really do mean only 'part') of the reason Usopp was upset was because he felt like the Merry was his main contribution to the crew, since he was the one who got them the ship.
Well, that's not really true, though. Kaya gave the ship to Luffy, before Usopp even was officially asked to go along with them. He was all ready to set off by himself. I think maybe he feels a little more like the ship himself. :) But I do think maybe you're partly right in that he probably feels more useful in helping to keep the ship repaired, but he wasn't successful in saving it, and now they'll have a shipwright and a new ship. But that's definately not something to fight Luffy over.
I think it was earlier in this thread that I said it was like an ethical question, who cares more, the person who wants to end somebody's misery or the person why wants to cling to hope and keep trying to save her.I don't know about Merry's spirit "carrying over", but a new ship would have a spirit of it's own. ;)
I know people who still refuse to believe Merry is gone. But at this point I'm really ready to accept that and move on, I would be kind of mad if Oda pulled a Pell with Merry. -
I actually liked it as it was good for character and story development. I was also happy that Oda treated it very seriously and not joke around like he had with all of Usopps previous fights.
I also liked how Usopp dominated the early fighting, it was interesting seeing someone as weak as him own Luffy for a while.
I always hated Usopp, mainly because I've always wanted One Piece to be more serious and everything about him dragged it down. However the serious nature of the fight finally gave me some reason to not 100% hate him.
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I was also happy that Oda treated it very seriously and not joke around like he had with all of Usopps previous fights.
I thought the Usopp v Merry Christmas fight was fairly serious, even if the beginning wasn't.
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I've always considered Usopp a serious character. He has some very serious moments back against Kuro, and even his fight with Chuu wasn't total comedy. It was more clever and emotional than anything.
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Usopp's pure sex, honestly.
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Usopp's pure sex, honestly.
True true, can't argue with that one. xP
I've always considered Usopp a serious character. He has some very serious moments back against Kuro, and even his fight with Chuu wasn't total comedy. It was more clever and emotional than anything.
Now that you mention it, I have to agree with you. Every fight he's been in when someone else was at stake, he's taken dead serious. His fighting style is probably what makes you think he's goofy.
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Your avatar is pure sex, taboo. XD Watching movie 6?
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Sankyu, sankyu. ^__^ Nah, I haven't seen it yet, but it probably influenced me anyway. x3
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Maybe it was just my last sig. XD
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XD Yeah, that was probably it~ Although I kept thinking "where have I seen this hair before? … Yasopp? .... I know, it looks like Ms MerryChristmas~! Oh well, he looks good anyway." x3
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well when I first saw Usopp Challenge Luffy I thought it was gonna be a joke battle
it kinda started that way with Usopp's lies, then his Usopp spell then the ketchup boshi that looked like blood
But then Usopp started using Dials and Luffy's style of fighting to his advantage and wow it just turned into an amazing fight both in action and in emotion
At first I thought this was the start of the straw hat pirates break up but it wasn't and i'm glad it's not xD!
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I wonder what the rest of the strawhat crew reactions would be if Luffy connected with that gomu gomu no bazooka to Usopp
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I wonder what the rest of the strawhat crew reactions would be if Luffy connected with that gomu gomu no bazooka to Usopp
Then Luffy would sent Usopp flying to an another island or back to his home island and the whole crew will drop their jaws with awe, they may say "Nnnnnoooooooo…." .
I still pounder that Luffy challage Usopp for whoever keeps the ship, now I'm not blaming Luffy or Usopp but I wonder what happens if Luffy says "keep the ship" without the fight?
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@joekido:
I still pounder that Luffy challage Usopp for whoever keeps the ship, now I'm not blaming Luffy or Usopp but I wonder what happens if Luffy says "keep the ship" without the fight?
This wouldn´t have worked so well because it was a thing about honor and pride. That´s why Usopp requested that challenge. If Luffy would have gave him the ship without a fight then he would deny Usopps honor and maybe even his own pride as a captain if he avoids a challenge.
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Anyway I remamber back in the old fourm when chapter 349 came out, some folks think that Usopp will become Luffy's enemy. I never agree with that theory.
And most people think Usopp will die but they migth not have read colorpages and title pages.
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i didnt really felt anything during the fight it was the before and after epsically when chopper started crying