Is this Naruto's VIIIth life, is this just fantasy?

Robby

b) I can't really get behind what a pariah this community has turned him into either, though. While I do agree his motivations and backstory were handled poorly by Oda, I definitely don't think he's the Sasuke of One Piece. If it had been Luffy who had been rescued by Ace, and it was Akainu who was insulting a dying Shanks, you can be 100% sure that Luffy would be dead right now.

Luffy already had the Bellamy incident to showcase the fact that words means nothing, and he knows better, but actions mean everything.

Also. When Luffy was on an execution platform, he was cheerful about it.

In any event, Ace lost a lot of respect with all his whining and moping later and his "I don't want to live" and "You guys get out of here, I'm worthless!" The exact same scene applied to Robin worked so much better because she was intentionally sacrificing herself for them. And then the moment she saw the entire crew was there for her, she realized she wanted to live, and started fighting back and resisting as much as she could.

Ace… just didn't want to be rescued and was resigned to die until the second he was uncuffed.

Ace was just being snotty and yes... emo. Self destructive, world hating, no reason to live. Emo.

Gekko135

@Silence:

b) I can't really get behind what a pariah this community has turned him into either, though. While I do agree his motivations and backstory were handled poorly by Oda, I definitely don't think he's the Sasuke of One Piece.

this right here.

Sure i'll make fun of him to tease the fanboys/girls, but honestly I don't think Ace is "emo" or terrible. The "sasuke of one piece" is a stupid fucking analogy.

Oda sucker punched the Ace lovers by killing him off… but through his death and this new flashback, he's now building Ace into an actual character that I can relate to as a reader.

Shandian

@maxterdexter:

That wasn't the first lesson that Luffy learned from Shanks? That there are risk that shouldn't be taken?

Shanks teached Luffy to not get agitated by silly things like people spitting on you or hurting your own pride, but he also teached Luffy that he would never tolerate if someone hurted or insulted is friends, so if Whitebeard would been Shanks and Ace been Luffy and Akainu would insulted dying Shanks then Luffy would had run to defend Shanks 100%.

Also Ace's grudge against Gol D Roger is quite understandable, if you would rise up on enviroment where everyone despises you becasue guy who made your mother pregnant was a no good drunk of course you would despise him for making your life hell, even though he was really a good person.

Also I dont think that even if Ace had choose to ignore Akainus insults and ran off with Luffy they would got that far either, marines could not let them both to run off just like that.

But hating charecters is natural part for reading literature, my hatred against Naruto charecter is beoynd any reason by this point, I simply hate him with every cell of my body and seeing him grinning like an idiot or trying to be 'cool' causes physical pain to my body, well not that there is anything else left in series… Kabutomaru is perhaps only thing that I am intrested anymore in Naruto series.

Phoenix Zoan

He's a tentacle monster. Of course he has a dark side. Although in The Narutoverse tentacle rape is only yoai themed.

maxterdexter

@Shandian:

Shanks teached Luffy to not get agitated by silly things like people spitting on you or hurting your own pride, but he also teached Luffy that he would never tolerate if someone hurted or insulted is friends, so if Whitebeard would been Shanks and Ace been Luffy and Akainu would insulted dying Shanks then Luffy would had run to defend Shanks 100%.

Luffy wouldn't throw his life away for an insult, baseless acusations of someone who would never understand his way of thinking, Luffy would had realized that it was Fucking AKAINU the implacable lava man of the marines and that he was througly outmatched.

If the situation would have been reversed, Luffy would screamed a simple remark that would destroy the insult and keept going.

Silence

@robbybedfart:

Luffy already had the Bellamy incident to showcase the fact that words means nothing, and he knows better, but actions mean everything.

Also. When Luffy was on an execution platform, he was cheerful about it.

In any event, Ace lost a lot of respect with all his whining and moping later and his "I don't want to live" and "You guys get out of here, I'm worthless!" The exact same scene applied to Robin worked so much better because she was intentionally sacrificing herself for them. And then the moment she saw the entire crew was there for her, she realized she wanted to live, and started fighting back and resisting as much as she could.

Ace… just didn't want to be rescued and was resigned to die until the second he was uncuffed.

Ace was just being snotty and yes... emo. Self destructive, world hating, no reason to live. Emo.

There was no one at risk when he was up on that platform but himself.

Yes, Luffy knows how to act when in non-trivial situations, and yes, Luffy was laughing up on his education platform, but there are subversions to both situations.

Luffy is a hard-headed character who learns by experience. Even if something is a terribly bad idea, he'll try it once first before succumbing to wisdom.

Case in point, Magellan. Luffy shouldn't have gone up against the warden (he'd been warned not to) and should've instead tried to find a way to escape from him, but he was having none of that. Because of this, he missed his chance to save Ace before he was taken away. On all subsequent encounters, he knew to run away. The same thing goes for other enemies. Smoker he tried to fight - realized he couldn't after getting taken down. After that, he advised the crew to just run away if they saw him. Aoikiji, same thing. Tried to fight - lost. After that, advised his crew to run away from the Admirals when Kizaru showed up.

Luffy shouldn't have fought Blackbeard, but did anyway because he lost his temper. You can be absolutely, positively sure that if Ace had just rescued him, and a bleeding, dying Shanks was in Whitebeard's place having his entire life as a pirate be spat on and trashed right before his eyes, Luffy wouldn't thought twice about trying to defend Shanks' honor. He wouldn't have been thinking straight - his mentor is dying before his eyes for his sake.

I'm not defending Ace, I'm just saying Luffy would have lost his cool just like any other situation where he lost his temper and came out fists swinging. -And Akainu would have killed him.

Cyan D. Funk

@Gekko135:

this right here.

Sure i'll make fun of him to tease the fanboys/girls, but honestly I don't think Ace is "emo" or terrible. The "sasuke of one piece" is a stupid fucking analogy.

Oda sucker punched the Ace lovers by killing him off… but through his death and this new flashback, he's now building Ace into an actual character that I can relate to as a reader.

Basically this.

I'll use the whining Ace pick and make a few cracks here and there, but never would I compare him to Sasuke. For one thing, I actually cared about Ace's death. Don't expect Sasuke's tears to make me bat an eye.

Gekko135

well that's the thing, Ace did act rashly and is a very flawed person. It's shown since he was a kid. He made a grave mistake by being taken in by Akainu's words… but he at least managed to save his brother in the end. It's tragic.

Sasuke's actions since Itachi's death are just fucking baffling. I cannot make sense of them, and it's assassinated his character in my brain. I literally dread his return to this series.

Shandian

@maxterdexter:

Luffy wouldn't throw his life away for an insult, baseless acusations of someone who would never understand his way of thinking, Luffy would had realized that it was Fucking AKAINU the implacable lava man of the marines and that he was througly outmatched.

If the situation would have been reversed, Luffy would screamed a simple remark that would destroy the insult and keept going.

Luffy has zero regard about how strong enemy is. He daringly battled against Magellan and almost got killed and suffered hellish pains and lost 10 years of his lifetime.

Yet when they were chased Magellan during brison brake he was ready to face him again to buy others some time.

Only enemy that Luffy has fleed is Smoker. Luffy would had attacked Akainu even if he would been threating to his minor friend like Mr.3 or Inazuma.

Very good example was when Luffy challenged ALL 3 admirals same time and attacked them alone without backup when he was rushing to save Ace. Luffy dont fear death at all and he is almost suicidical on his stunts that he does when he tries to save ppl who he cares.

Dark Lord Zenigame

…wow, you just got owned in an argument by Shandian.

maxterdexter

As how luffy went after akainu when he killed Ace? Or how Luffy left Buggy to fend of against Mihawk? It was one of the 3 admirals and Luffy knew that the Admirals are "Realy Strong!", and he didn't trully hoped to acomplish anything more than distract them.

This isn't too out of topic for the naruto thread?

Silence

Essentially, what Cyan and Gekko amongst others have said.

Ace and Sasuke are far and away different characters. I'm not saying that Mopemaster Ace's behavior was handled well, but I can definitely sympathize with what a flawed character he is - I think part of the reason of why people don't like him is because he's probably more realistic in this regard than many (read: most) other One Piece characters in that his hardheadedness has continual consequences and they're character flaws rather than character quirks. But, I can relate to this.

Sasuke is a whole 'nother bag of worms, irredeemably so.

StrawHatRican

I like how everyone just ignores the fact that Ace's character was basically a flawed pirate with daddy issues and an inferiority complex.

Did he sway a bit on the emo side when in the platform in Marineford?

Of course he did.

But he had a REASON to be that way, that's what his character became (much to the chagrin of the OP fandom it seems).

Sasuke on the other hand… has abandoned all logic and became emo/angst/evil/Teh DARKNESZZ for the sake of it.

KuroShinobi

When Akainu attacked, I had more sympathy towards Luffy than Ace.
May I remind you, I liked Ace and he's the one that died.

That's saying something…

Gekko135

@StrawHatRican:

But he had a REASON to be that way

and this is the underlying point to it all.

Like Ace or not, it's believable and makes sense when read correctly.

Sasuke had his reasons all throughout part 1… but once Itachi died, Sasuke lost rationality from his actions.

I thought "maybe he's playing the fool and really trying to deceive Madara who is obviously the real villain here. And in the end he really does care for Naruto, konoha, etc...."

but i've given up on that notion.

Silence

I mean Sasuke has basically admitted to taking a great big chouji-sized dump on Itachi's sacrifices, hopes and dreams. This he says even to Madara's face, when Madara tells him that's precisely what he's doing.

slide whistle -

Phoenix Zoan

I can give Ace some slack. Although he was a grown whiny bitch, we never really gotten insight in his past until it was too late. But his action made sense with what we know now. We know all about SuckOroCock and how he is acting makes no fucking sense at all.

Shandian

@StrawHatRican:

Sasuke on the other hand… has abandoned all logic and became emo/angst/evil/Teh DARKNESZZ for the sake of it.

Entire Naroto series has revolved around Naruto vs Sasuke, specially after part 1.

Kishimoto has spend much of Part 2 to build up Naruto vs Sasuke theme and even went as far as trying to make them polar opposites of each other even by braking their original charecter philosophys.

He made Naruto to White Jesus saviour and the Chosen One who will bring peace and flowers to Narutoverse, and then he wanted to make Sasuke a real villain to give them good reason to fight and he forcefully made Sasuke completely insane to make him a current DARKNESS-HATRED obsessed raging power maniac whose only goals in life is to crave more power and hatred to crush Naruto.

Well sure they have now reasons to fight each other but both charecters are just too unbelieavble and unlikable by now, they are far too extreme. Instead of fighting because rivalry they fight becasue of ideologys and basic Good vs Evil and Light vs Darkness crap that is done by death…

This series would be actually good if main charectrers would still make any sense, Naruto should be stupid, funny, stubborn and slightly mischievous and Sasuke should be cool, focused, professional and intelligent.

But instead current Naruto trying to be pacifist saint who hugs and kisses and Sasuke is being powerhungry raging lunatic. Very forced setup and poorly executed.

Airflow

Basically Ace's logically unlikeable while Sasuke's not logical and never will be likable.

Jazzy Jinx

I noticed there's a lot of parallels between the Ippo/Miyata rivalry and Naruto/Sasuke rivalry only Ippo and Miyata are both likable characters that don't suck and respect each other. Plus, Ippo has the sound logic of, "I respect and love him so much that I want to kick his ass." And as an added bonus, side characters even call Ippo gay.

Naruto needs to take lessons. That's a rivalry done right.

Narutossss

@Airflow:

Basically Ace's logically unlikeable while Sasuke's not logical and never will be likable.

They both still have their fangirls:ninja:

Robby

@robbybedfart:

The funniest part is you're getting all bent out of shape about opinions that aren't even mine. I was just stating the reasons for the general dislike of the character that are most commonly given.

Hrm. Yep. Still the case. Think I dragged that conversation bait far enough.

Personally, I thought Ace was pretty decent character, and after this flashback I have little doubt we're gonna like him far more than we did. , He unfortunatley got caught in the plot.

Comparing him and Sasuke is quite the insult.

Him and Itachi however… older brothers sacrificing and then giving their lives for the sake of their little bro being able to keep going...

@Airflow:

Basically Ace's logically unlikeable while Sasuke's not logical and never will be likable.

Yeah. That.

Silence

I don't think people are responding to you so much as they are responding to the opinions, robby.

Pretty sure if this discussion was in any other thread it'd be doused with flames within pages. Which is ironic on so many levels.

Robby

@Silence:

I don't think people are responding to you so much as they are responding to the opinions, robby.

Sorry. My ego demands that I assume otherwise.

Narutossss

So then ace is the itachi of one piece and not sasuke… I'm down with that.

Shandian

@Narutossss:

They both still have their fangirls:ninja:

Fan girls/boys and shippers are beoynd any reason or logic. Hinata fanbois and Hitsugaya (Bleach charecter) fangirls are good example, Hinata is almost mythic charecter that has only briefly seen by couple of panels in 10 years and she is having garguantian size fanbase with almost religious dedication to her. Hitsugaya is most popular Bleach charecter in Japan and is constantly winning all popularity polls in Japan. Hitsugaya is hated and despised around english speaking communitys but in Japan he is adored beoynd measure and his fanbase is frenzy and blind enough to fully support entire Bleach series and keeping it sales at top levels.

Well haters are beoynd reason aswell, infact I really love to hate Naruto and Sasuke, I dont think Kishi or anyone can do anything anymore to make me like them. Hatred is very nice emotion that allows you to get into stuff and series, if you only one charecter in mediciore story that you hate with all your fury then you are actually willing to read it through just to see him get hurt.

Naruto vs Sasuke is such a bait, people are so desperate to see Naruto crushing Sasuke in this series that they are willing to wait years and years to see it happen.

@Narutoss:

So then ace is the itachi of one piece and not sasuke… I'm down with that.

More like Mihawk is Itachi of One Piece.

StrawHatRican

@Narutossss:

So then ace is the itachi of one piece and not sasuke… I'm down with that.

Hmmm…

thinks

I can kind of see what you did der...

Narutossss

@StrawHatRican:

Hmmm…

thinks

I can kind of see what you did der...

don't forget their fish psychics.

KuroShinobi

@Shandian:

Well haters are beoynd reason aswell, infact I really love to hate Naruto and Sasuke, I dont think Kishi or anyone can do anything anymore to make me like them. Hatred is very nice emotion that allows you to get into stuff and series, if you only one charecter in mediciore story that you hate with all your fury then you are actually willing to read it through just to see him get hurt.

I really like the way you think.

Narutossss

Totally agree I'd pay to see naruto falcon punch sasuke like this.

!

TLC

@robbybedfart:

Hrm. Yep. Still the case. Think I dragged that conversation bait far enough.

Personally, I thought Ace was pretty decent character, and after this flashback I have little doubt we're gonna like him far more than we did. , He unfortunatley got caught in the plot.

As long as he didn 't have his blood or foster father in mind, Ace was a quite likable mellow dude. That one chapter he was free, he exhibited calm cool traits. Then unfortunately he got caught up in emotions and fisted the next chapter. I think the flashbacks are doing what Oda never had a chance to do, show how Ace is normally with no deep pressing issue making him depressed. The last chapter alone has made Ace quite likable in my opinion with all his Luffyesque smirks and talk of freedom and playing around naked:ninja:

Robby

@Thousand:

The last chapter alone has made Ace quite likable in my opinion… with all his playing around naked:ninja:

Wait. what?

Silence

@Thousand:

The last chapter alone has made Ace quite likable in my opinion… with all his playing around naked:ninja:

:|

:|
:|

…

Narutossss

I don't know what to say…

StrawHatRican

@robbybedfart:

Wait. what?

@Silence:

:|

:|

:|

…

Add this to the string.

._.

._.

KuroShinobi

@Thousand:

The last chapter alone has made Ace quite likable in my opinion with all his Luffyesque smirks and talk of freedom and playing around naked:ninja:

The fuck is wrong with you?

Narutossss

I guess we've become so tight in this thread it's become ok to share our secrets…

Sâuza

Why don't you have a seat ?

StrawHatRican

@KuroShinobi:

The fuck is wrong with you?

There's a word for people like him…

[hide][/hide]

Silverblade

I think we had some cake leftover from that one time.
Want some, Thousand Lion-kun?

Badass SnoCone

@Thousand:

The last chapter alone has made Ace quite likable in my opinion with all his Luffyesque smirks and talk of freedom and playing around naked:ninja:

It's like he wants us to pelt him with sharp objects.

And let me add my new found friend:

:v

:V

StrawHatRican

You learn fast SnoCone.

Also:

Nobodyman

|:

Narutossss

sure why not…
XP

XP

puffin

D:
D**:**

D: sixteenchars

StrawHatRican

puffin

ur doin' it wrong

puffin

I tried my best .

Malintex_Terek

@Gekko135:

Sasuke had his reasons all throughout part 1… but once Itachi died, Sasuke lost rationality from his actions.

The irony is he went off the deep end, even more radical and vengeful than he was before toward Itachi.

Maybe Madara's controlling him? I don't see why Madara, as strong as he is, would need to lounge around when Sasuke was already capable of matching the current Kage with his Magenkyo Sharingan. Or why Madara didn't take a more active role in the invasion of Pein. We've seen what Sasuke's made of, why is Sasuke Madara's attack dog? At the very least, Madara should have Sasuke's power since he was once a Kage himself - he should have been able to fulfill his vengeance by himself.

The only explanation I can think of is Madara is actually quite a weak character, which doesn't make sense to me given how the bloodlines supposedly dilute out over time, with the Sharigan weaker than its ancestral Rinnegan (and Sasuke's weaker than Madara's?), and his comment to Kabuto when Kabuto summoned Akatsuki. BUT, it would explain why he only manipulates powerful beings and needed the Nine-Tails as a crutch against the First Hokage.

Narutossss

Anymore confessions?

:O

Nobodyman

( . Y . )

( . Y . )