@brennen.exe:
@Deicide: Are you sure you want to disagree on such a broad scale? I mean, the quote you pulled proved my point, that it is the only (or main?) time he expresses concern for FI, and that it isn't specifically concern for only FI: "He protects many islands with the use of his name in this same way… SURELY the government is aware of what would happen on the seas if Whitebeard should die!!" The second point was that FI served as a personal testimony for the subject they were discussing, and it did, as the dialog shows. I then questioned how far his concern would take him, and pointed out that he himself stated he doesn't just help anyone. So… what exactly do you disagree with?
I'm sorry, but no, you're not right. Jinbei talks a big deal about Fishman Island. His debt to Whitebeard is because WB saved Fishman Island. There are several lines about fishman island, and a single line talking about other islands, which exists to explain how WB protected islands with his name.
Now, you're ignoring most of the dialogue to make your point. You can remove the line about other islands and the dialogue would almost not suffer any loss:
_Jinbei: …and I too, at your hands!
I simply wanted to be of use to him...
The reason there is peace in Fishman Island…
...is due to the help of your "Dad," Whitebeard.
On the trip through the Grand Line, every pirate must pass through Fishman Island…
When the Age of Piracy began, the island was soon wracked with violence...
Torn to shreds by the countless human pirates and the Marines that pursued them!
Jinbei: Many fishmen and mermaids were kidnapped… sold...
When we had all shut our eyes tight against despair, Whitebeard made his appearance...
<<whitebeard: this="" island…<br="">...is now MY territory!!!
Jinbei: I'll never forget that day!
Ever since then, Fishman Island was off-limits to anyone who would seek to run rampant…</whitebeard:>_
To say that single line has more importance then all others in which he talks about fishman island is absurd.
First off, there is nothing wrong with Amazon Lily right now. They are well protected, love their leader, she kept her title, she'll return home safely, and Luffy is already chiseling away at her exterior. Not sure what there is to fix, really. Plus, the crew isn't there. As for the last question, the answer would be clearly Jinbei. Hancock has no reason at all to stick with Luffy save personal desire, and selfish desires do not dictate the plot of a fictional story unless you are Luffy. Jinbei could have left home already, but chose on his own to remain with Luffy, so as far as I can tell he is already motivated enough.
Once again, you defend Jinbei because of his island, and turn Hancock down because of her personal story? I'm sorry, but Hancock's plot is about her, not her island. Jinbei's plot is about his island. There's a ton of difference there.
I thought the way I wrote it made it fairly clear it was just conjecture, but I don't see how it is baseless.
No. Everytime I pull a point, I go out of my way to say words like may, I think, IMO, if, just to make sure I'm talking about possibilities. That's not the way you talk.
"For the last twenty years or so he has been a pirate, rather than remaining at or near Fishmand Island like you suggest he would do if Luffy emulated Whitebeard with protection. "
You're pretty much stating "facts" to defend your points. You plainly stated that he has been a pirate for 20 years and that his crew was going away from Fishman Island at regular intervals. That's baseless.
First off, the Sunny Pirates were formed after Tiger raided Marijois, so it happened around 11 years ago, since Hancock has been empress for 11 years.
We know Tiger formed his crew around 20 years ago, and we know Jinbei was concerned about that stuff before even that, so there is no reason to believe he wasn't one of the first crew members on the ship. Pirate crews tend to sail around the sea, not just sit in a boat next to the island they hail from, so I figure that goes without saying. Whitebeard was already protecting the island, so it seems unnecessary for them to be "protecting" what is already protected. If Arlong's crew serves as any example, protecting their own people was of lower priority than showing they would not be enslaved by anyone again. What is baseless about this?
It's baseless, for instance, because Arlong Pirates themselves concerned to stay only in the same waters, living off enslaved humans. THe Makro Gang, as far as we know, stay close to FI and Sabaody, since they deal with the slave trade.
So, the only two examples of fishman pirates so far are pretty much territorial. While it's not impossible to imagine the Sunny Pirates were different, it's baseless to say that they would travel away from FIshman Island regularly.
You are missing the point. Oda had already accomplished that, and he could have had Jinbei say it in real time or any other way. Why use flashback dialog between the recently deceased Ace only to reiterate what we already knew? It wasn't so simple as to "show his feelings", and the promise itself begs the question of how Oda will use it in the future.
Now you're trying to use foreshadowing to support your point. That flashback, as far as we can be sure, served to show Jinbei's feelings towards Luffy. If it means anything else, it's pure conjecture.
When Luffy was questioned by Magellan about how he entered Impel Down, Luffy got a brief image of Hancock. We knew already that Hancock helped Luffy and Luffy was saying he would never tell. Was that foreshadowing, then? The only thing I'm certain is that it meant to show the reader Luffy's feelings, that he would NEVER bretray her after she helped him. It's a similar situation.
Nobody is suggesting Jinbei will join because of a promise. It's like Urouge always says, you guys don't get to choose our arguments for us. How does that scene benefit the story? If anything, by joining Jinbei will be fulfilling that promise, allowing Ace to "rest in peace".
Even if Jinbei wasn't a slave, he was a victim of the slave trade as we saw him express in Chapter 529. The fact that he was a victim of that and has long history with Fisher Tiger, the slave trade, and his pirate crew allow for much more depth than Hancock's does. Hers has already been given a skeleton, so the only depth to add would be to see it actually play out. Jinbei has at least equal potential if not more, especially since it can be a personal recount not shared with two siblings.
Once again, Jinbei's story is, as far as we know, his island's history. Hancock's story is her personal history. There's a whole different level of storytelling involving each of them. You can't say that Jinbei's backstory is more important than Hancock's. That's not fact, it's just personal opinion, pure baseless conjecture.