I agree with you but it is most likely that Sanji will be always close behind Zoro and Luffy that's why Monster 3.
But looking at other crew they seem to have more than 3 top tier fighter to I was conseidering Jimbei as addition to the monster 3. But even I have my doubts cuz it would ruin the whole dynamic. Luffy the captain. Zoro the equal first mate and Sanji, the clever one and eternal rival of Zoro. How would Jimbei interact with them? We have over 500 chapters now this trio so it is hard to see.
But in the Boa case. I don't have anything about her. But if she joins she would probably be degraded in a similar way like Robin. And what will happen than`What would be her role? Like you said each Nakama has his position, even Brook, who is just a musician. But I can't see anything for Boa. Jimbei could be helmsman, even if it is not that important. But is a musician that important?
I agree with you in the Boa/Jimbei case. Jimbei would most likely be an addition to the monster 3 but I can't see how it would works. Zoro and Luffy are always shown as equal and Sanji is always shown with Zoro in a art of competition.
Boa would most likely be just a strong support character ala Franky and Robin.
But I still think no one of both will join. I still hope for a younger member to join. Marguarite would be cool but even more unlikely
Just to clear one problem before someone brings it up, ignore the "dream issue for nakama" when it comes to considering who should join. As Brook became a part of the crew, he still does not actually have a dream; however, he has something of equal quality. He lives a second life after 40 years of loneliness and strives to fulfill a promise the rest of his crew was never able to fulfill. Besides this is the issue that the history behind Brook is even worse in terms of pain and suffering than Robin, whose in turn was worse than most of the other crew members (lets count Franky as a leap year or something or separate male and female as the females seem to usually have horrid pasts, minus rape).
So from here we have to assume who can have a past and who can be added that would fulfill a role for the crew while on a new island while not counting the characters that are there for purely meeting the crew.
In regards to these issues we have to consider the situation in which a nakama might join. Oda always has the traditional "new nakama meeting" in which they immediately meet some interesting figure or their story keeps popping up concerning a person/group and referred to by the people in the area while the Strawhats are there. The only issue with this though is that they do the same for the villain.
So in all logic, the true question is what is the setting for the next arc? I doubt Luffy is going to find any nakama from this war as anyone here is pure filler trash or too overpowered to count. If Hancock or Jimbei were to join, I would assume it would be after a carry-on where they meet up with the rest of the crew and they become more familiar. What is worse though is that if such a thing happens, it is a very good bet that while they are with the crew for the story, Luffy will find someone interesting under Jimbei or Hancock, or even a villain, and ask that person to join.
The main thing we need to see regardless of where or who is for Luffy to be asked a question, or ponder about "what else does the crew need." That is the main reason why I believe the crew has to rejoin each other first.
Considering all of this, Hancock seems to follow the "need" to be with Luffy but that is sort of flawed. Both Hancock and Jimbei seem to be connected to their area too much and what is worse is that Jimbei still has to deal with the grudge of Arlong's death/defeat whatever with Luffy after the war, he himself mentioned it. If we add a fishman, I think it may have to be someone we have not yet met, and it will be someone with talents even peculiar in regards to others of the merepeople.
Just to clear one problem before someone brings it up, ignore the "dream issue for nakama" when it comes to considering who should join. As Brook became a part of the crew, he still does not actually have a dream; however, he has something of equal quality. He lives a second life after 40 years of loneliness and strives to fulfill a promise the rest of his crew was never able to fulfill. Besides this is the issue that the history behind Brook is even worse in terms of pain and suffering than Robin, whose in turn was worse than most of the other crew members (lets count Franky as a leap year or something or separate male and female as the females seem to usually have horrid pasts, minus rape).
So from here we have to assume who can have a past and who can be added that would fulfill a role for the crew while on a new island while not counting the characters that are there for purely meeting the crew.
In regards to these issues we have to consider the situation in which a nakama might join. Oda always has the traditional "new nakama meeting" in which they immediately meet some interesting figure or their story keeps popping up concerning a person/group and referred to by the people in the area while the Strawhats are there. The only issue with this though is that they do the same for the villain.
So in all logic, the true question is what is the setting for the next arc? I doubt Luffy is going to find any nakama from this war as anyone here is pure filler trash or too overpowered to count. If Hancock or Jimbei were to join, I would assume it would be after a carry-on where they meet up with the rest of the crew and they become more familiar. What is worse though is that if such a thing happens, it is a very good bet that while they are with the crew for the story, Luffy will find someone interesting under Jimbei or Hancock, or even a villain, and ask that person to join.
The main thing we need to see regardless of where or who is for Luffy to be asked a question, or ponder about "what else does the crew need." That is the main reason why I believe the crew has to rejoin each other first.
Considering all of this, Hancock seems to follow the "need" to be with Luffy but that is sort of flawed. Both Hancock and Jimbei seem to be connected to their area too much and what is worse is that Jimbei still has to deal with the grudge of Arlong's death/defeat whatever with Luffy after the war, he himself mentioned it. If we add a fishman, I think it may have to be someone we have not yet met, and it will be someone with talents even peculiar in regards to others of the merepeople.
Well I have to say to that point your post was truly awesome…
It was a mistranslation. Jimbei has no grudge he feels in debt to Luffy and want to say sorry...
Well I have to say to that point your post was truly awesome…
It was a mistranslation. Jimbei has no grudge he feels in debt to Luffy and want to say sorry...
Could be true, but it could also be that Arlong, though a prick was his nakama. Remember Arlong was very nice to any fishman but looked down on humans. In Impel Down's escape he reflected on Arlong's defeat and said "I have to put that aside for now."
It may be possible Arlong is his relative or just his nakama and regardless of reason, Luffy did in fact defeat him. I doubt it will be an extreme dividing rift, but something will come out of this, without a doubt.
Don't know if someone else has already mentioned this, but there is one common (and obvious) trait among the SH. They are funny, sometimes in their own way. This manga is meant to be, among others, funny. So every character that is put in the main crew has to add some comedy in their dynamic, even Robin (the most serious of them all) is not an exception, she is known to give horrifying comments to most situations ("Maybe they got eaten up by a sea king", or "he'll definitely have an interesting death, etc), Oda also uses her seriousness to add comedy (remember Giant Robo whats-it-called .
scene?).
Now, from the two (Hancock and Jimbei), i dont think i remember Jimbei being given any funny scenes (correct me if I'm wrong), and a yakuza-boss guy with that kind of chivalry has little comedic potential. And like it or not, all the SH are a bunch of idiots in their own ways :D
Hancock, on the other hand has more comedic potential in her lovey-dovey attitude towards Luffy. I can imagine her looking down on the rest of the crew, probably jealousy towards Nami and Robin, and imagine Sanji drooling over her and getting pissed off because she liked that idiot Luffy better. But what role/job/position will she be in that ship? Haki fighter? Sea-King repellant?
In this regard, Hancock has a better chance. But I personally prefer the next crew to be someone else, someone not yet introduced, someone with a more obvious "use". I'm still betting on my Barracude type fish-woman, the only fish people that can outswim a mermaid
Why has this turned into an argument its all specualtion there is to much Boa hating for my blood. If you realize the shit the strawhats must conquer than anybody could join. The role thing has been disproven becuase why on earth did the strawhats need robin. Thats like saying Oda needed a reason to get rid of going merry I think he just wanted to.
You don't need a reason to make the story better you just do it(what are things that naruto and bleach must learn).
Just to clear one problem before someone brings it up, ignore the "dream issue for nakama" when it comes to considering who should join. As Brook became a part of the crew, he still does not actually have a dream; however, he has something of equal quality. He lives a second life after 40 years of loneliness and strives to fulfill a promise the rest of his crew was never able to fulfill. Besides this is the issue that the history behind Brook is even worse in terms of pain and suffering than Robin, whose in turn was worse than most of the other crew members (lets count Franky as a leap year or something or separate male and female as the females seem to usually have horrid pasts, minus rape).
Isn't Brook's dream to make it through the New World and fulfil his promise of reuniting with Laboon?
The prediction d3ad3r said was the best I've seen in a while, add someone with a peculiar weapon.
ponx: that was a very intuitive point you mentioned. In his own right I think Jimbei may be humorous at times but we have only seen one side of him compared to what we have seen from Hancock, which is quite a lot. I sort of dont see it likely that either will join, but I sure would not mind it if they did. It just seems more likely that the next person to join will be just after this arc, which can include Boa/Jimbei depending on the place.
Muah: I wonder if you actually read the entire posts….
Urouge: It wouldn't be a dream then, it would be a promise that was given to him by his entire crew. The dream for him would more likely be to live his life with nakama. If anything, I would say it would be called a "person's conviction to live" more than a dream, which still fits in with the rest of the crew (I sort of noted this in that post but it wasnt directly referring, sorry for that confusion)
Just a small mention, when you guys quote a specific line from a large post, you can just delete everything else in the quote for space conservation.
Could be true, but it could also be that Arlong, though a prick was his nakama. Remember Arlong was very nice to any fishman but looked down on humans. In Impel Down's escape he reflected on Arlong's defeat and said "I have to put that aside for now."
It may be possible Arlong is his relative or just his nakama and regardless of reason, Luffy did in fact defeat him. I doubt it will be an extreme dividing rift, but something will come out of this, without a doubt.
No even the translator said he was wrong and Jimbei don't havy any grude against Luffy and seems to have a debt to Luffy.
cnet translation
Jimbei: Thanks to you, I have been granted a chance to save Ace-san's life…!! I owe you a heavy debt...
Luffy: ...Oh, don't be like that. / It'd go round in circles.........! I'm just happy to have a guy like you on my side! / You really are strong, huh?!!
Jimbei: (Even aside from this whole incident...... I feel a certain amount...) // ......... // (...of gratitude... and guilt... towards you...)
Flashback!Arlong: Shahahahah!
Jimbei: (But let us put that aside... // For now, we should focus on our goal...!!
Urlila
Jinbei: Even before this incident... / there's something I need to thank you and apologize to you for...
Arlong: Shahahaha!!
Jinbei: But now's not the time for that. Right now we have only one goal...!!
Well Boa has more comedy material for sure... But Jimbei would be the greater addition. Boa would stick in the shadows from the Top 3. Jimbei could fight with them most likely and is bad-ass enough. And more important. Luffy seems to be more amazed by the abilities of Jimbei than of Boa. An other case... it isn't time to show now something funny for Jimbei. Zoro didn't show us his funny before his joining as well. And Jimbei's introduction have alot of similar aspects to Zoro's
And I think there is more behin Jimbei than we know. And the Arlong thing give us a point that he will have some story with Luffy adter that and probably Nami.
A prediction. Jimbei could be the personal bodyguard of Nami after feeling ashamed what happened to her and her village xD A real knight xD ... Just a joke. Helmsman would be something but it isn't needed.
You know it is very difficult to figure out what purpous someone could serve on the Straw Hats crew. Robin's role is probably the least important at the moment. But it's probably a given that it will be soley because of her that they make it to Raftel due to some understanding of the Poneglyphs.
But maybe in the new world there is some type of condition among the seas, or something really other worldly about traveling to different places in the NW and it takes a specific well trained person to make sure a ship can travel safely there.
Now the grand line is already nuts enough and since they will be back across the mountain with more magnetic fields, chances are the whether will get nuts again like Vivi explained long ago. But of course Nami is the one that takes care of all of this. But what if there is some other type of profession that will be needed once the crew is in the new world, something that will make traveling(or anything) easier for them.
You know it is very difficult to figure out what purpous someone could serve on the Straw Hats crew. Robin's role is probably the least important at the moment. But it's probably a given that it will be soley because of her that they make it to Raftel due to some understanding of the Poneglyphs.
But maybe in the new world there is some type of condition among the seas, or something really other worldly about traveling to different places in the NW and it takes a specific well trained person to make sure a ship can travel safely there.
Now the grand line is already nuts enough and since they will be back across the mountain with more magnetic fields, chances are the whether will get nuts again like Vivi explained long ago. But of course Nami is the one that takes care of all of this. But what if there is some other type of profession that will be needed once the crew is in the new world, something that will make traveling(or anything) easier for them.
For professions, a lot of those roles seem commensal as the crew for the strawhats as the ships that usually have those roles consisted of usually 25+ to near 300 sailors and marines depending on the ship.
If you consider a yacht and other sailing boats of today, the navigator/cartographer is done by a few people and machines, the crew shares the labor for the cleaning and handling of the rigging etc (as long as they have the proper knowledge to lessen injuries from accidents) so for roles it is better to consider the roles of them as pirates off the ship.
For the strawhat crew, it was a small ship and with Franky's additions it becomes possible a monster of a ship with fully automated issues. So the roles on a traditional ship is more or less lost as people do the rigging, cleaning, docking, and setting up the cannons on who is available and who is likely to not screw it up lest Nami places the fear of Enel and tangerines into them. It has been seen in both anime and manga that crew members take turns with those ship related chores, usually Zoro takes care of the anchor and it seems everyone deals with rigging.
I've seen Sanji and sometimes Usopp and Luffy do the cleaning if Nami forces them to. Maintenance on the ship is mainly Franky, was Usopp who now works on the battle stations of it in regards to being the sniper so that means he is the head gunner of the ship (a real position, forgot exact title for pirate and privateer ships). Chopper deals with overall health while Sanji handles the nutrition values. Nami is the navigator, obviously. Robin is actually more useful than you think as any island they will land on she will know its history, what to be careful of etc. When you consider the ponyglyphs she gains more importance in terms of the future.
What I would be interested in is if the crew gets a young cabin boy/girl with strange powers joining.
On a new note, there are actually types of pirates that were named differently for how they act and their ways of piracy. There were types that even with a ship, they had an island as a base (the kuja and yonkou as example) and do their piracy in an area. Some just go in ships and move from area to area. When we consider this historically, roles on ships are not the only thing to think about and since the adventures of the strawhat crew are largely on land, we must consider their roles in respect to that.
Even if my avatar is showing something different… It is highly unlikely for Jinbei to join. But I think Boa is very unlikely too.
Even if one of them will join it won't work that well. As pointed out by some of you. Boa an Ex-Shichibukai would be problably be degraded to not be in a level with our Top3 and would be more of a support character like Robin, Franky and Co. I just can't see her side by side with the Top3 like it shown a dozen of times. She isn't that bad-ass. And I think if they won't go back to AL than no way she will join without saying goodbye.
Jinbei on the other hand would problably on par with the Top3 after they received their upgrades. But I can't see the dynamic with him. And Sanji/Zoro/Luffy are younf and still learning... Would Jinbei learn new stuff too to keep up with them? Would be hard to see him under the Top3.
So my pro and cons
Boa
Had a small backstory even if it was really just one chapter
Interaction with Luffy
Cool fighting style
A women even if I would prefer a childish and younger girl like Marguarite
Amazon Lily. She can't leave the island without saying goodbye
Would be hard to degrade a Shichibukai to fit under the Tp3
cruel character
No "job" in the crew
Jimbei
Would be a new addition to the monster 3
Luffy is amazed by him and his abilities
Next station is problably FI and Jimbei has still some story with Luffy (NO GRUDGE)
Unique design and fighting style
(+) Maybe could be helmsnan
No backstory so far
No comedy matrial so far
Maybe too experienced
In my eyes Boa is out of discussion for now. If they go back to AL maybe it will change. Jimbei is very unlikely now cuz Oda has to show more of him. Maybe in FI we would have a reason.
We have to wait after this war. Will Luffy go back to SI to meet his crew and go straight to fishmen island with Jimbei to discover the history of FI. He also wants to say sorry but Nami is needed for that one too. It was her village.
Or will we go to Amazon Lily once again that Boa can join. She hast to interact with the crew as well at first and not just with Luffy
I would like to see the mermaid-princess or Perona to join
Please don't flame me and I won't discuss this any more. This is my few of this case. I know some will disagree and put some theories how their fav can join the crew. But I read most of the thread and most of the points are brought up already and we don't need to go with the same stuff.
EDIT
The only Jimbei-thing what would fit into the crew for now is... his name. Kaikyo no Jimbei is really bad-ass
Your post seemed to be more of an encompassing review of that topic and was, for the most part, nicely written and laid out. Regardless there should be no reason for anyone to flame you.
Anyways welcome to the forums.
–--
Pertaining to your point, the situation in terms of where they go to next and who becomes involved with the strawhats at that time will be the most probable likelihood in terms of the next nakama. As I have commented on previous posts, we have yet to see the tell tale sign of a) Luffy realizing a need of new member, b) him asking a person to join and of course there is the fact that the current arc seems unsuited. I would think that the next nakama will occur when the crew meets again at the extreme earliest. As for if it can be Hancock or Jimbei, it is not impossible but still it seems unlikely in regards to strength of character in comparison to the crew itself.
For best argument that it can still occur is the presence and notice of Robin as Miss All-Sunday when Vivi meets the crew as the princess for the first time and the destruction of her trusted friend/bodyguard/escort's ship. Considering that the transition from enemy to crew took nearly 3 island arcs and the strength of the strawhats increased by then. This also brings into consideration of the faux nakama, in which we have temporary additions to the crew.
Your post seemed to be more of an encompassing review of that topic and was, for the most part, nicely written and laid out. Regardless there should be no reason for anyone to flame you.
Anyways welcome to the forums.
Thank you… Don't be confuses... I'm Kaikyo but I changed my mind with the username. I hope it isn't a problem. =)
EDIT
It is really between Boa and Jimbei... I dunno... But Boa is hotter
Thank you… Don't be confuses... I'm Kaikyo but I changed my mind with the username. I hope it isn't a problem. =)
EDIT
It is really between Boa and Jimbei... I dunno... But Boa is hotter
I disagree with either of them joining. I agree with most of the list of Pros and Cons though, all true except for the "maybe" when referring to Jimbei's experience. IMO he definitely has too much.
Yeah but seeing Robin was at the sea all her life she has high knowledge too… But we have to wait. We need more details and hints.
Boa is hotter and we need a girl. but I don' like the fact that she would problably be degraded in a way like Robin. Jimbei would be a great addition to the Top 3 but can Oda make him as cool looking in spreads like the current monsters?
Yeah but seeing Robin was at the sea all her life she has high knowledge too… But we have to wait. We need more details and hints.
Boa is hotter and we need a girl. but I don' like the fact that she would problably be degraded in a way like Robin. Jimbei would be a great addition to the Top 3 but can Oda make him as cool looking in spreads like the current monsters?
Lmao, Jimbei could be a cool gorilla, he just can't be the SHs gorilla. However, I am looking forward to a Fishman/Merman/Mermaid/Fishwoman, whatever, becoming the next SH.
Lmao, Jimbei could be a cool gorilla, he just can't be the SHs gorilla. However, I am looking forward to a Fishman/Merman/Mermaid/Fishwoman, whatever, becoming the next SH.
We need the mermaid princess who is even hotter than Boa!
Had a small backstory even if it was really just one chapter
Interaction with Luffy
Cool fighting style
A women even if I would prefer a childish and younger girl like Marguarite
Amazon Lily. She can't leave the island without saying goodbye
Would be hard to degrade a Shichibukai to fit under the Tp3
cruel character
No "job" in the crew
Jimbei
Would be a new addition to the monster 3
Luffy is amazed by him and his abilities
Next station is problably FI and Jimbei has still some story with Luffy (NO GRUDGE)
Unique design and fighting style
(+) Maybe could be helmsnan
No backstory so far
No comedy matrial so far
Maybe too experienced
Why can Jimbei be an addition to the top 3, making it 4, yet hancock has to be weaker than the top 3?
and i hate job arguments, besides Nami, chopper and sanji, there is basically no jobs. And hell we don't even see any doctoring, just throw on 100 lbs of wrap and they fixed. yea cause we need a fishman really bad to be able to turn the ship the way Nami tells them too. And a fishman takes away our newest invention of the shark sub. so don't say just for diving. Not saying we can't get a fishman, mermaid but just seems weird to throw that sub away so quickly.
they are both probably really experienced, though maybe not hancock as much. based on history she was clueless how to even get home and seems they just go out and steal shit from ships now, i doubt explore grandline, so yea maybe she fits bill better than jimbei who may know too much. but hell robin never tells us anythign anyway.
mainly just saying WTF can JImbei be put in the top 3 or 4, and Hancock can't? Are you sexist or something?
[+] Unique fighting style
[+] Relationship with Luffy
[+] Gag potential with crew
[+] Has flashback and sad past
[+] Personality quirk; looks down on people
Living out her dream
Is romantically interested in Luffy
Potentially overpowered Devil's Fruit
Has more potential for Chichi/Vivi status
Seven Royal Warlords of the Sea title (current)
Narrated flashback w/ lack of focus on character
Responsibility as Empress to protect/lead Amazon Lily
One of the two known wielders of the Supreme King's Color
Heartless character lacking compassion for anyone not Luffy
^^ Since nobody will argue the pros, let me expand on the cons:
[hide][[B]Ex-Slave] Hancock has already stated that all she wants is to remain free. For the moment, that means hiding the fact that she was a slave from her people, and ruling with an iron fist. While staying with Luffy would certainly fall under "remaining free", she has no other established goal, and that one is already accomplished and doesn't require her to leave or further explore the seas. Also, it will instantly negate her status, which means she would be hunted once more. If she didn't care to be home specifically, why did she presumably work so hard to become the leader of the nation? Why not just go somewhere else as a pirate, or live in quiet peace?
[[B]Romance] Oda has dodged the question about inter-crew romance more than once, so of course that means he plans on having Luffy and Nami fall in love I doubt he would have something so openly romantic going on 24/7, even if it is unrequited. Sanji's is different, as it is obsession for all borderline attractive women. This is, however, a very weak point against her. On the contrary, it could server as a gag similar, yet different, to Sanji's. A balance of sorts.
[[B]Devil's Fruit] Next is her Devil's Fruit, which I believe is potentially overpowered. Basically, a majority of her opponents will be left crippled, dead, or as good as dead (statue); not to mention 99% of her enemies should be susceptible to her OHKO skill.
[[B]Chichi Complex] The Chichi/Vivi thing is an Urouge theory that I have agreed with that suggests Oda is setting Hancock up as the Chichi of One Piece, meant for Luffy but not until everything is over with. At least, that's what she thinks. The Vivi portion is referring to a hybrid theory of mine that suggests she will be another "crewmember" or "friend" (nakama), like Vivi, despite being physically absent. Another Kingdom allied, like Arabasta and Drum.
[[B]Warlord Status] Until (if) this is lost, it will stand as a buffer that keeps Amazon Lily safe from the World Government. It is fairly irrelevant overall, but from a story telling perspective it allows the readers to have peace of mind that Nyon's fear will not come to pass. If she loses this status, then refer to the Responsibility Clause.
[[B]Flashback?] Hancock's flashback was not really a flashback. Not only did it lack dialog, but it was narrated. This is far from the standard for the crew. Most important, however, is the fact that her flashback focused around the Heavenly Dragons and the branding/tattoo, not her. This is important because it points out that the flashback was not about her, while also pointing out that she is not at all alone in the pain that she carries. Her two sisters, for example, share her exact burden with her.
[[B]Responsibility Clause] Assuming she loses her title, which would happen if she left with Luffy anyway, she would be abandoning her people to their fate. Even if we pretend that it would happen later on down the road, and that Hancock would have time to return, she would be risking her life, and thus the fate of her people, to chance. Oda would leave the reader believing that Hancock is abandoning her responsibility to her people. This means her duty to prepare the island for defense, to boost the island's morale, to protect them from any enemies or preemptive attacks, or to simply remain there to ensure she is in fighting condition when the necessary time comes would all be put aside for a chance to sail around with lover-boy. Nyon feared what could happen for a reason.
[[B]Queens Ambition] It wouldn't be ideal for Oda to place both '1-in-a-millions' on board the same crew. It isn't a matter of use or portrayal of use, just a matter of uniqueness. Would he have two skeletons? Two Zoans? Two cyborgs? They might not seem the same, but it is a quality about them that is extremely unique to the One Piece world. So much so, only two characters so far are confirmed to have it. Not only would squeezing them both on board hurt the importance of Luffy having it, but it would instantly make Hancock Luffy's superior in all matters 'Ambition'. That would make Luffy's fighting development very hard to handle, as it is not feasible to suggest that Hancock will just sit aside and watch Luffy strain to improve and grow stronger when she could just instruct him over time.
[[B]Heartless Wench] Let's face it, does she even care about anyone not named "Luffy"? Almost every crew member, if not all, was shown to be kind and compassionate prior to joining the crew. This means they showed acts of selflessness or humanity amidst a cruel and cold world. Most characters were already part of a brutal or harsh trade, where they were either not accepted or were treated poorly or aggressively. Despite this, they were at the least considerate of others and caring towards the people they loved. Hancock? Farthest thing from it.[/hide]Jinbei:
[+] Is a fishman
[+] Unique design
[+] Unique fighting style
[+] Distinct/fitting personality
[+] Has a bounty and no place to go
[+] Debt, respect, and relation with Luffy
[+] Major flashback and sad past potential
Too fat for the Sunny
Lacks a dream (current)
Lacks a blunt and goofy personality
Has an arguably overdeveloped skillset
Is an older and more experienced pirate
Lacks a sad past and flashback (current)
^^ I will cover both pros and cons for Jinbei since they are a little bit more up for debate or question:
[hide][[B]Fishy] Yes, this is actually a fairly serious argument. Fishmen are known for a few qualities: can breathe under water, can swim very fast, can communicate with at least one type of water dwelling creature, is naturally very strong(er) under water, and are naturally good at oceanography. These allow him to help with a variety of things that the crew cannot do, or cannot do that well. Usopp, for instance, used to repair the ship. Now Franky does it (better). Chopper, in human form, would control the helm. Now Jinbei could do it (better).
[[B]Design] Like Chopper, Brook, and Franky, Jinbei stands out. Not only is he a Fishman, which I imagine is somewhat unique for a human crew, but he is dressed fairly unique (kimono) and is large/fat (sumo) too. Ok, I admit this is sort of weak, but the crew is a bunch of oddballs that stand out; the more recent, excluding Robin, stand out visually. Yes, he is big, but not so big he cannot work on the Thousand Sunny (shut up Crossword, lol). He is basically the closest they will (most likely) ever come to getting a giant…
[[B]Serious Business] Most people think he is dull and has no sense of humor. I disagree, obviously. Oda is not beyond showing true character when and where it is good for the plot, and Jinbei is just that. He is honorable and level headed, while still being able to believe in the impossible. I'm not sure if he has a speech quirk, but he is well spoken and I think uses terms that an 'honorable yakuza' would use. He has shown sarcastic humor in a few cases so far, and was shown to at least be a believably 'happy' character in a color spread. In any other situation, I think he would fit the crew well, being similar to Zoro and Robin in the sense that he can be serious or goofy to an extent, with the dominant characteristic being more serious that goofy. He is also very caring and selfless, and is a perfect fit for the type of "pirates" the Strawhats are. As far as experience goes, he would be the Robin of the New World, providing basic knowledge and inter workings of the New World whenever something comes up. Robin can't always be the information bank…
[[B]Fishman Karate] Clearly a unique fighting style, if only unique to a specific type of people. Like most of the crew, he seems to be fairly proficient in that particular skill. He has shown a lot of different skills already, and is clearly at least as strong as Luffy and Zoro. To many, this means he is too powerful and overdeveloped for a new crew member. I disagree on this also, as we are at a point where newbies and weaklings cannot survive. Anyone to be added from here on out should at least be impressively strong, especially now that the crew are set up for power increases. Giving Jinbei spotlight while the crew is away would be a good way to segue him in while the other characters get "upgrades".
[[B]Homeless] Assumes Whitebeard dies Jinbei has a major bounty on his head. I expect his bounty to be reactivated, and possibly even adjusted a little bit post-war, but we will see. Either way, he has no crew that we know of or place to return to. He cannot go home to Fishman Island because he will only attract Marines and Bounty Hunters, which would cause problems, and he will potentially have no other allies that we know of alive except for (maybe Ace and) Luffy. Jinbei is currently in Luffy's debt, which means he will likely remain with Luffy for at least a short period of time after the war ends, and would open the door for him to get to know the crew and eventually join and travel with them.
[[B]Flashadow] Jinbei has history. We know that. It needs to be should be dealt with before or during Fishman Island, so we should expect more from him as a character. For one, we have his history with Arlong to be explored. Next, and more importantly, his history with Fisher Tiger and the events that started their crew and ended their crew (Tiger's death). Tiger's death, tension with Arlong, and being a fishman / potential slave are reason enough to believe he has a sad past. Until then, however, this is in the air. This could also touch on his dream, having something to do with improving or repairing the relationship between humans and fishmen, and possibly slavery as well. I don't pretend to know how this will play out, if it ever does.[/hide]
Shanks
WB (most likely has, unsure though)
Luffy
Dragon (since Luffy takes after Dragon and Iva said that he has the same presence... obvious)
Raliegh
Boa
It would be safe to assume that the other two yonkou may have it, at least one of the elder stars and it probably a few in the new world. Sort of like how we thought Devil fruit power was rare before the grand line (pre-chapter 100) so we will get an influx of the older experienced pirates. Haki may or may not become very important (to be honest could care less if it does or doesnt)
Shanks
WB (most likely has, unsure though)
Luffy
Dragon (since Luffy takes after Dragon and Iva said that he has the same presence... obvious)
Raliegh
Boa
well how many people do you think are in the world? if only 5 million people then boom there you go. and i suspect more than that people. 5 million is super small
and you are listing some of the biggest players in the world, not surprising they have it.
but we will just see, depedning on who you like your posts are super biased in regards to boa or jimbei. (not you personally, refering to all posters) if you like said person you slightly alter each point to make it a pro for one and a con for another. or over play one aspect of one and downplay that same aspect for another.
I can understand you arguing against WB, but Rayliegh obviously had it. If not are we reading the same manga? Considering the meeting b/w shanks and wb, it seemed likely that he had some form of it due to mere presence causing people to faint (the main issue of this haki form). Dragon is also an assumption but a logical one.
Edit: Hinscher -
I personally dont have any bias for or against Hancock or Jimbei joining, I just think if it occurs then sure, if not, then does it matter?
as for the conqueror's haki it was said one in 5 million people have it. This may not seem like a few if we think of the size of our own world (Nearly 7+ billion), but in the OP world I think its probably a less overall population, but there may be a concentration of these in the new world.
If you like said person you slightly alter each point to make it a pro for one and a con for another, or over play one aspect of one and downplay that same aspect for another.
I like Hancock more than I like Jinbei. Just saying.
I can understand you arguing against WB, but Rayliegh obviously had it. If not are we reading the same manga? Considering the meeting b/w shanks and wb, it seemed likely that he had some form of it due to mere presence causing people to faint (the main issue of this haki form). Dragon is also an assumption but a logical one.
Considering the only thing we know about it is the name, how can you possibly make these claims?
@The:
234 pages? really? Honestly, I think it's pretty useless to speculate at this point. With what is going on, chances of someone joining now are slim to none.
True, but it can still be entertaining. The page count is because this thread is stuck in an infinite loop statement.
Considering the only thing we know about it is the name, how can you possibly make these claims?
Rayliegh was mentioned having it by the name last I recall so if you ignore assumptions then it is still three, as in more than two so calm down.
Edit: the only other case that can surpass assumption is shanks as the main key to this haki is the "presence" and the reaction by those around it. The name can easily be considered to be named based on this and that the holder has conviction and presence to rise above others. As was mentioned both by Marco and defined by a few of the kuja in the snake fight.
Hm, I feel like some being is trying to mess with me somehow…
I was hoping you would get one of those…I dunno what you call it. Those things. You know? You know when someone talks about you? And you know it...like a curse...like...you know...something?
The term was never mentioned until Chapter 519. Has Rayleigh's name even been brought up since then? Who is the mystery man behind door #3?
Well, ok. Sorry for shouting earlier. sips tea
If I am wrong and there is a haki practically the same then I will be the first to admit I was off. It is just far too coincidental that these other characters that have the same entrance, same presence, a large goal, and the same reaction shown by others to be completely different. Normally I hate assumptions as well but this seems safe.
As for tea, drinking earl gray or are you the non black tea type?
Edit: as for Rayliegh I thought he did mention it after they were at Shaky's bar, but perhaps not.
If I am wrong and there is a haki practically the same then I will be the first to admit I was off. It is just far too coincidental that these other characters that have the same entrance, same presence, a large goal, and the same reaction shown by others to be completely different. Normally I hate assumptions as well but this seems safe. Edit: as for Rayleigh I thought he did mention it after they were at Shakky's bar, but perhaps not.
I think the problem here is that people assume "knocking people out" is King's Ambition. Maybe that is part of it, maybe not. We don't know. We know very little about Ambition in general, and nothing about King's Ambition. Put it this way: Oda is a skilled writer, right? Logically, we can only really confirm that Oda has been building up this mysterious skill known as "Ambition" since Shanks used it on Whitebeard's boat, which was still a fairly long time ago. Given that, do you really think Oda would introduce a super one-in-a-million rare type of Ambition that, coincidentally, was used 100% of the time by 100% of the confirmed users prior to Amazon Lily? One in a million…yet 100% of them have it...? I don't buy it. I will give you the huge benefit of the doubt and say MAYBE. Even still, it is super freaking rare, per Oda. Point still stands, no?
Given that, do you really think Oda would introduce a super one-in-a-million rare type of Ambition that, coincidentally, was used 100% of the time by 100% of the confirmed users prior to Amazon Lily? One in a million…yet 100% of them have it...? I don't buy it. I will give you the huge benefit of the doubt and say MAYBE. Even still, it is super freaking rare, per Oda. Point still stands, no?
Given how Oda likes to tease people and try to give everything a twist, the amount of people he has shown or hinted with this power seems to come across within different generations and those that exhibited something that has anything of any similarity to this is only a small handful. A little bit of an assumption in that case (of course with the possibility being very likely) would be understandable but anything more than that would truly be overdoing it, as you mention.
Rather than ambition, I think its also along the lines of conviction (as in strength of beliefs). In that case the biggest key seems to be the thought of presence, or aura. Cliche as the topic is in action/adventure mangas Oda will probably pull it off in a way that will still make his avid readers bow in awe.
Given how Oda likes to tease people and try to give everything a twist, the amount of people he has shown or hinted with this power seems to come across within different generations and those that exhibited something that has anything of any similarity to this is only a small handful. A little bit of an assumption in that case (of course with the possibility being very likely) would be understandable but anything more than that would truly be overdoing it, as you mention.
Rather than ambition, I think its also along the lines of conviction (as in strength of beliefs). In that case the biggest key seems to be the thought of presence, or aura. Cliche as the topic is in action/adventure mangas Oda will probably pull it off in a way that will still make his avid readers bow in awe.
:wassat: Oh noes!!! INFIDEL!!!
Oh well crystal light is not too bad, I used to get the box of little packets that you pour in bottled water.
Edit: You may be right about Rayliegh not having it, his case seems a bit different.
Rayleigh was definitely not revealed to have King's Ambition, as Brennon stated. However, it is my personal opinion that either he or Shanks, maybe both, have it. Rayleigh said he wouldn't use Haki again after his entrance, implying that if anyone saw him do it they would immediately realize he was Rayleigh. This probably has to do with the fact that there were rumors of him being at Sabaody, and old man + Haki + rumors = Rayleigh. On the flip side, it could have also meant, "I can't use this again, because this ability is SO rare that they would immediately realize it was me."
The thing I want to know is when Oda said "1 in a million" if he meant either
A] 1 in a million people
or
B] 1 in a million people with haki
If it is B, then I agree with Brennen, doubting that Shanks or Rayleigh could have it.
Does anybody know which of the two "1 in a million" was addressing? Because I haven't found a translation that made it clear to me.
Why can Jimbei be an addition to the top 3, making it 4, yet hancock has to be weaker than the top 3?
and i hate job arguments, besides Nami, chopper and sanji, there is basically no jobs. And hell we don't even see any doctoring, just throw on 100 lbs of wrap and they fixed. yea cause we need a fishman really bad to be able to turn the ship the way Nami tells them too. And a fishman takes away our newest invention of the shark sub. so don't say just for diving. Not saying we can't get a fishman, mermaid but just seems weird to throw that sub away so quickly.
they are both probably really experienced, though maybe not hancock as much. based on history she was clueless how to even get home and seems they just go out and steal shit from ships now, i doubt explore grandline, so yea maybe she fits bill better than jimbei who may know too much. but hell robin never tells us anythign anyway.
mainly just saying WTF can JImbei be put in the top 3 or 4, and Hancock can't? Are you sexist or something?
No Boa is in my eyes even stronger than that…. FOR NOW.
But honestly Robin was shown owning the whole crew too and now... And think about it. Can you see Boa with them at the frontline in bad-ass spreads, evil looking and cool-stuff talking? It would be the same case like with Robin.
That's why I don't like to see her join. It would be a bit strange if an Ex-Shichibukai would be degraded.
But this are just my thoughts. If you can see her in spreads with the 3 or even with one of them like Zoro/Sanji or Luffy/Zoro... OK. I can't.
Rayleigh was definitely not revealed to have King's Ambition, as Brennon stated. However, it is my personal opinion that either he or Shanks, maybe both, have it. Rayleigh said he wouldn't use Haki again after his entrance, implying that if anyone saw him do it they would immediately realize he was Rayleigh. This probably has to do with the fact that there were rumors of him being at Sabaody, and old man + Haki + rumors = Rayleigh. On the flip side, it could have also meant, "I can't use this again, because this ability is SO rare that they would immediately realize it was me."
I seriously doubt that fodder marines can differentiate between haki and king's haki. Even Smoker doesn't really know what basic haki is very well (from his comments after Hancock hit him), and just deduced that it was likely this Amazon's haki thing he's heard about. I've always figured that passing out was due to being exposed to a "level" or "amount" of haki that the person couldn't handle, and not specific to the "king" version.
Now, if the Marines reported that people were being knocked out by some old guy looking at them, that's what would probably tip someone like Sengoku off. Regardless of the reason that it happens, there's probably not a ton of people capable of doing that.
I seriously doubt that fodder marines can differentiate between haki and king's haki. Even Smoker doesn't really know what basic haki is very well (from his comments after Hancock hit him), and just deduced that it was likely this Amazon's haki thing he's heard about. I've always figured that passing out was due to being exposed to a "level" or "amount" of haki that the person couldn't handle, and not specific to the "king" version.
Now, if the Marines reported that people were being knocked out by some old guy looking at them, that's what would probably tip someone like Sengoku off. Regardless of the reason that it happens, there's probably not a ton of people capable of doing that.
Good point, I also agree that the passing out is due to what you're able to handle. I was just giving some insight/possible evidence to the viewpoint "Rayleigh might have Kings Ambition." I'm really looking forward to more information on Haki in the future.
Brennen.exe, I liked how in your cons about Hancock, you showed the difference between how Hancock's flashback was handled as to how most flashbacks are handled. It didn't have that black border that usually indicates flashback. I didn't notice/pay attention to that before. And you're right also in that it wasn't only Hancock who suffered, but her sisters as well. I don't really see the point in separating the 3 sisters when they have been through so much together.
From how the situation was describing, and the wording, I think they said "one in a million people" have the conqueror's haki. Otherwise "people with haki" would have been included.
The main problem though is that it is just a simple statement that can be over or under estimated as the one in a million could just mean it is entirely rare. In the case of the issue in religion, I believe shinto comments on a term for a hundred thousand gods (or something of that line) but in regards it does not exactly mean that number as there is clearly more if every object (inanimate or animate) has its own spirit. My memory concerning this term is off, so feel free to mention the term and direct translation if you recall/know it.
If we nix this one in a million as an unsure guess, we come across the point of how many know haki to begin with? In regards to this issue we should remember that once upon a time devil fruits were noted as absolutely rare and to some aspects random trash characters would mention points like, you can live three life times and never come across a fruit. When you reflect on this, people in the grandline show devil fruits like everyone who is anyone has it.
In terms of story, when you proceed into later arcs and progress into areas that only the strong may enter, we see a melting pot of strengths, races and powers. It is far from illogical that haki will play a big part in the new world considering that the issue of 300 million is pretty much considered a rookie and 90 or so million is more of a child. If we argue about the soverign's/conqueror's haki then we have to consider the area in which the strongest people gather.
If we still consider the one in a million as an absolute (which in itself is not a sure thing) then how about the distribution of these people through the world? According to how people seem to believe, I guess no matter where you are, the amount of devil fruit users or haki users is equal regardless. Considering that we think of the grand line and the new world (a new stepping stone and adventure in the series) is it so far of a possibility to assume that we will find stronger people and more of them in this sea and the sets of islands that the strawhats will land on?
Even if you think of rarity, please at least remember that this is how a shonen battle manga is ran and that if there was no competition or threats, then what is the point?
Edit: forgot to mention: Please don't confuse me saying that the haki of Hancock and Luffy's level will be as common as how devil fruits will be shown to be, I just meant haki in general. I assume that the soveriegn's haki will be only in a handful of people.
From how the situation was describing, and the wording, I think they said "one in a million people" have the conqueror's haki. Otherwise "people with haki" would have been included.
The main problem though is that it is just a simple statement that can be over or under estimated as the one in a million could just mean it is entirely rare. In the case of the issue in religion, I believe shinto comments on a term for a hundred thousand gods (or something of that line) but in regards it does not exactly mean that number as there is clearly more if every object (inanimate or animate) has its own spirit. My memory concerning this term is off, so feel free to mention the term and direct translation if you recall/know it.
If we nix this one in a million as an unsure guess, we come across the point of how many know haki to begin with? In regards to this issue we should remember that once upon a time devil fruits were noted as absolutely rare and to some aspects random trash characters would mention points like, you can live three life times and never come across a fruit. When you reflect on this, people in the grandline show devil fruits like everyone who is anyone has it.
In terms of story, when you proceed into later arcs and progress into areas that only the strong may enter, we see a melting pot of strengths, races and powers. It is far from illogical that haki will play a big part in the new world considering that the issue of 300 million is pretty much considered a rookie and 90 or so million is more of a child. If we argue about the soverign's/conqueror's haki then we have to consider the area in which the strongest people gather.
If we still consider the one in a million as an absolute (which in itself is not a sure thing) then how about the distribution of these people through the world? According to how people seem to believe, I guess no matter where you are, the amount of devil fruit users or haki users is equal regardless. Considering that we think of the grand line and the new world (a new stepping stone and adventure in the series) is it so far of a possibility to assume that we will find stronger people and more of them in this sea and the sets of islands that the strawhats will land on?
Even if you think of rarity, please at least remember that this is how a shonen battle manga is ran and that if there was no competition or threats, then what is the point?
Thanks for the clarification on that. Well I don't want to keep eating up this thread with being off topic, so this is the last I'll say about Haki here for the time being. When I read the manga and came across Shanks / Rayleigh, then heard the term "Kings Ambition" I assumed they also had it. It just seemed that way to me. This would also make sense in Shanks' case because chances are he has no Devil's Fruit(Since he saved Luffy in the ocean), so exceptional Haki could help make up for that. After hearing some peoples opinions, I can understand why people would think otherwise. If I had to go ahead and place a bet or something, I would just go ahead and say it's my opinion they have it. I'm not saying the evidence is in favor of that opinion, just the way it appears to me.