@123:
Because defeating WB is their number 1 priority now?
I don't know. It definatly seems like there's a deeper plot to be unraveled very soon. I keep thinking that Dragon will show up too at some point. Here's my idea: Both Ace-san and Luffy are taken to the execution grounds (Luffy's there so he can watch, just another part of his punishment before they assume he's going to die), then just in the nick of time, either Dragon or someone else unexpected will come in the picture to lend a hand.
Guess destroying that giant bottle in Level 4 and flood Lvl 5 with the hot blood/water/whatever is the best way to srew things up in Impel down….
And what's the point in taking down WB and risking the stability of the world? That doesn't make sense to me.
Huh, didn't we already go past that? The balance counts for the WG's order. Meaning if the WG's side (Marine HQ or Shichibukai) have a weak link the balance leans towards the Yonkoh's side and they can get rid of opposing WG once and for all, which ultimately means that the WG's world order is gone.
However if the Yonkoh defeat Whitebeard the other three would be next and their entire world order would be maintained. The balance is not something they want to keep up for all enternity, it was something that until now was the best assurance they had from not being directly squashed by one of the Yonkoh. What do you think the Gorosei want to have Pluton for? It is to defeat all opposing powers (pirates and revolutionists) with it. If they have such a weapon they don't need to form an alliance with pirates to keep their world order in tact. But since they don't have, they have to use desperate measures.
And as Kuma's words to Moria are implying, the WG themselves must be aware that with the entire Teach/Ace development the Three Powers are leaning now towards their own favor, that's why they go to war with Newgate. Garp already said that the point the Marine HQ and Shichibukai are there to rival the Yonkoh. That's the balance, so if the Yonkoh are gone the WG still won't fall appart while it most definitely would the other way around. Get the balance deal now?
But since they don't have, they have to use desperate measures.
That's the balance, so if the Yonkoh are gone the WG still won't fall appart while it most definitely would the other way around. Get the balance deal now?
We agreed that from the WGs point of view it's logical since they really thinks the TGP makes sense.
That won't change the fact that if you're an outsider you will see that the whole tactic is flawed since their power is probably equal to one yonkou with all his crew.
But that wasn't my point. My point is that the way they engaged the war isn't the best. An outsider like Shanks can tell this. But the WG can't be helped since the Gorouseis are blinded from their views. But every other can see that risking so much will probably not be so easy as: 1 yonkou less means we the WG/marines + shishi will now be the strongest.
And i can perfectly imagine that the 5 elders told sengoku to announce Ace execution thus bringing the situation we have now. I have faith that he wouldn't have rushed the whole thing since he seems to know the sea.
We agreed that from the WGs point of view it's logical since they really thinks the TGP makes sense.
That won't change the fact that if you're an outsider you will see that the whole tactic is flawed since they probably can just take care of one yonkou with all their forces and not all the 4 together.
Err no, they can't take out one alone, otherwise they would have done so already. Didn't you at least agree on the point "1 Yonkoh (with entire crew) = Marine HQ + 7 Shichibukai" after I explained how the Yonkoh are not allies but enemies? I thought you did. Or do I have to explain it again?
But that wasn't my point my point is that the way they engaged the war isn't the best. But they can't be helped since they are blinded from their views. But every other can see that risking so much will probably not be so easy as: 1 yonkou less means we the WG/marines + shishi will now be the strongest.
I agree that the way they are engaging it isn't the best but hey, it's not like these guys and their world order isn't totally messed up in the first place. They are corrupt, power hungry and also scared that's why they use all kinds of drastic measures (offering Shichibukai status, using Buster Calls or hunting for Pluton) only to continue ruling the world.
Err no, they can't take out one alone, otherwise they would have done so already. Didn't you at least agree on the point "1 Yonkoh (with entire crew) = Marine HQ + 7 Shichibukai" after I explained how the Yonkoh are not allies but enemies? I thought you did. Or do I have to explain it again?
No there is no need to go through all that again. Sorry my bad. It has been fixed.
And yeah their world view is fucked up i completely agree with that.
@123:
Because defeating WB is their number 1 priority now?
That point stands from their world view. I am just angry that they aren't more capable. But hey they are doomed to go down so i shouldn't expect more from such an organisation.
No there is no need to go through all that again. Sorry my bad. It has been fixed.
Cool.^^
And yeah their world view is fucked up i completely agree with that.
Which is why it will be even more satisfactory when the WG will finally be brought down in the end. Can't actually wait how Oda will handle it since this war opens so much possibilities.
Tom on level 5????
What's funny was the whole Ace being on Drum argument was brought up actually earlier in this thread between me and Maes Hughes at around page 4 I think. But then again this is AP Forums. What happens a few pages ago ends up being a monster that has vanished from the annals of history.
What's even funnier is that I read that post when the chapter was released and brought this topic back up myself a few pages ago by saying, "I still think the best suggestion was…" So ultimately Greg's complaint is fairly accurate in it's suggestion that this entire thread has been wrapped around that topic.
I think we reached the end of One Piece: Luffy is going to die in less than 24 hours, no antidote can save him anymore. The crew is dispersed all around the world. Ace is going to be executed. BB is going to kill WB.
"So you think that the WG have enough strength to take on White beard AND DRAGON? who, according to you is more dangerous then al 4 yonkou combined?
I think that chance is slim to nothing x 2
If that was the case I think the WG would have already taken over the New World long ago, won't you agree? or just destroyed White beard, seeing that doens't pose any problems for the WG.
No, this is just too illogical"
I'm sorry i didnt say it more clearly, just like bounty does not measure someone's strength, Dragon is more dangerous than the 4 Yonkous combined because i think he has some knowledge of the void century, that fact scared the shit out of them back on Ohara, so I would presume that Dragon must have some knowledge in them. Assumptions apart, the fact remains. All the Yonkous have not yet show any concern in taking down the World Government, they are going after One Piece and the Pirate King title. So far only Dragon is concern about rebelling. Does that not make him more dangerous then the 4 Yonkous combined?
Does the World Government have enough strength to face both Dragon AND Whitebeard?? truth be told: I dont know. But is it possible? I think so. The 3 Admirals, 6 Shichibukai, their massive armies (I know that they are mostly just fodders, but still the sheer number of them might give even Whitebeard a scratch), AND lastly Dr. Vegapunk! Why him? He made Kuma clones, we saw what 1 can do and who knows how many more of them Vegapunk has made, imagine an entire batallion of Pacifista… And who knows what other technologies he has got up his sleeve?
I'm not saying I'm right or reading Oda's mind or anything, I'm just throwing out the chances. And since all of us doesnt know shit whats going on in Oda's mind, I can safely say that my guess is as good as yours
yes..maybe you are right, never think that way before, and that would be a great twist…using WB only as diversion... However, I dont think Dragon would be that easily to came out and save ace, he is a type of people who would abandon his ow child for a greater cause, he has done it when ace is still a kid, and I dont see any reason why he would come and save ace now.
Yes, while Dragon might seem to be the type, this event too, might seem irresistible to him. He can launch an attack from behind while they are busy fighting Whitebeard from the front. Making a coup is always easier when the government is at war with another side. And he gets to save his kid in the process, this is what makes me think that Dragon will show up, and the World Government will be expecting for him.
I have to disagree with those that thinks that the declaration of war is a foolish plan, or poor planning. The organization known as the World Government has been around for 800 years, surely poor planning is not the reason for it. In fact, I think i have another theory as to why the Tenryuubiito is given such incredible status.
The founders of the World Government will, of course, know their darkest secrets. Since there are 20 of those kings, who can say that the secrets are safe, and hopefully, lost in time. So instead of fearing that one day those secrets would come out and threatens their position, why not giving those descendants special treatments and facilities, that way they would be too comfortable and spoiled that rebelling would be the last thing in their mind.This is, of course, based on the assumption that the Gorosei (or whoever the leader of World Government) isn't necessarily the descendants of the founders
When people face death or have a near death experience they can gain a huge amount of (will) power.
I hope he will get up and still be able kick some asses; I just think it's impossible to have one of his regular nakama comming or that Mr 2 can beat them up all alone ..(I don't count Mr 3 and Buggy - I find them too weak)
PLUS he won't give up; that's just not Luffys style…He'd rather die than give up... die for his friends and family ..
This arc is just great: no pure winning streak and no endless "I can beat you all techniques" - I hope he will learn something from his reckless action [..]
Out of all the arguments I read being toss around in this thread, I was just amazed at how some readers can underestimate Crocodile.
@Muscle:
Out of all the arguments I read being toss around in this thread, I was just amazed at how some readers can underestimate Crocodile.
No, the point is very debatable. I don't think either side of the argument is overwhelming enough for it to be 'amazing' (I'm assuming you were referring to whether he was worthy of this 'level 6' position, disregard that if you weren't ;P)
When people face death or have a near death experience they can gain a huge amount of (will) power.
I hope he will get up and still be able kick some asses[..]
If Luffy was going to do that, he would have done it during his fight with Magellan. He's clearly in no state now, (you saw him on the stretcher) and his ability to do so becomes ever more dire with each passing second as he loses his life. If the poison was able to rob his ability to fight earlier, it's grip has surely only tightened. He was already relying on his will alone through the latter part of the fight, what makes you think he can fight Magellan any better now?
^ Edit Button for the win! ^
I feel so bad for Luffy at the end of the fight. He was definatly moving on sheer will-power at the end, but since he couldn't see or hear, he was missing his target by miles. My heart was breaking by that point.
Yeah I know it's kinda in the past for this thread but ive changed my mind and now think ace isnt on level 5
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/535/11/
this page is kinda proof isnt it?
what else could the '24 hours of pain be' except freezing hell? Magellan wouldn't have said it if he wasn't going to do it, and the thing he does is send him to level 5, to lie there and suffer for awhile.
he will be moved in 24 hours to the 'real hell' (presumably level 6)
I don't think i've seen this point raised, or there would be no doubts anymore.
so yea, just wanted to have the final word on that ^^
Ever watched One Piece on acid? it's pretty sweet.
This chapter conflicts me..
It's a great chapter… but with Bentham's actions, if he doesn't become a SH I will be severely annoyed. He acted extremely over the top nakama'ish. And I don't care if he's an okama, he acted manlier than any non-sh we've seen to date.
I don't know what to do, this chapter will make no sense if he doesn't become a SH..
what else could the '24 hours of pain be' except freezing hell? Magellan wouldn't have said it if he wasn't going to do it, and the thing he does is send him to level 5, to lie there and suffer for awhile.
he will be moved in 24 hours to the 'real hell' (presumably level 6)
Actually I think he was talking about the afterlife hell, which is you know the real hell if you believe in it. That's what makes the most sense anyway since from the ID staffs point of view Luffy will be dead shortly, which means afterlife is what awaits him.
I don't know what to do, this chapter will make no sense if he doesn't become a SH..
Why will it make no sense? You don't need to join someone's crew in order to save his life.
Someone here pointed something important:
Boa said: "It sure is hot here"
HOLY SHIT, how is that possible… ON LEVEL 5?
boa said that in magellan office and we know that is in level 4
@Maase:
HOLY SHIT, how is that possible… ON LEVEL 5?
Except she says that while on Level 4.
LVL 5 is like a labyrinth, or should I say, a floor that is really big. Think of it like, well a pyramid (which it is, come to think of it. And the lower the lvl the bigger it is). There is a diff part of lvl 5, one for each of the elements (but instead of water, its ice)
But still, there is something I'm curious about, but do not know. I bet Ace and the others aren't frozen because their really powerful, while the other lvl 5 people, the ones who had a lower bounty do get cold because they are not like the rest. But how about Croc, shouldn't he be affected?
Ups, looks like I failed ;___________;
Oh well, nevermind then
