@Ivotas
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@Ivotas:
But the point is that Luffy only lost the first round because of the Logia component. The second two fights were clearly not because of that but because of Crocodile's combat skills. Ok, in round two it was still his DF ability Crocodile used to win but hey it wasn't because of the "a logia is untouchable component". I mean, if he'd have the "Dehydration Paramecia" the result of round two would have been the same. It's definitely not a logia thing anymore. If it would be, then we'd be starting to question DF abilities as a whole and then Luffy would just have to be thrown in the boat too.
And what about luffy not able to move fast because of the water he drunk? He drunk like 20 liters of water? Of course he wouldn't be able to move as fast as croc. It's all due to the problem logia. Luffy doesn't know how to deal with that broken power. He found that water can help him and only in round 3 he used his blood to block croc. His logia DF gives him too much power…
And finally round three isn't even a DF matter at all. The poison hook is practically a basic combat skill with weapons. So yeah, my point still stands that you give Crocodile less credit then he deserves.
That's based on opinion. IMO the poison hook was a desperate move of croc. And given crocs nature i'm not surprised he used it. He would use every dirty trick to win!
That said, I really don't see why Crocodile shouldn't win against Enel, Rucchi and Moria. Yes, with their power all three could defeat him. BUT with his power he could also defeat each one of them. The way all the four are portrayed, there's no clear outcome. True, Rucchi has better combat abilities then the others, but Croc could go Logia and Poison Hook on him. Tekkai doesn't help much against these. On the other hand with liquid it's pretty likely that Rucchi will take him down. On the other hand Enel could use Mantra and again his DF against Rucchi. Again, Rokushiki doesn't help much against these. And against Moria's power it doesn't help much either. On the other hand, Rucchi can be quick enough to beat up Moria if he doesn't keep up. And back to Croc (and Enel as another Logia) Moria can easily deal with them once he gets their shadows. But if they turn into their elements, they pretty much can dehodrate respetively "flash" him.
So when it comes to battle skills based on your strength we agree that croc is a weakling? I think we are now discussing the logia issue here and at extend the whole DF issue. I for myself think that fighters who only rely on DFs are weak. That's why i never liked the gears techniques (the side effects are also a reason). I mean ok it's an interesting concept but at the end it comes down to:
In a fight of 2 equally powerful fighters (based on strength a physical abilities) where fighter 1 eats a logia and fighter 2 a zoan for example it's clear that the logia will becomes more powerful. And that's unfair. People might say he is super strong. But no! His DF practically dopes him.
Generally DFs are like doping substance. And i judge someone by his physical strength (and in future by his ambition/haki). We all know luffy is really strong physically.
Besides DF make you unable to swim. Zoro is still able to swim? For a pirate DFs have huge negative side effect.
No doubts here, but that's the next level that will get into play in the New World. So far we're argumenting Grand Line material, because I seriously doubt that the WG has much (if any except Ace) prisoners from NW at Impel Down right now. So we return to what I said a couple of posts ago. Of what the WG has imprisoned, Crocodile seems to fit with the big boys. That the NW is a whole new level doesn't change anything if there's no prisoners from there.
seriously the admirals job would be really boring if they are just dealing with guys of crocs level… I understand what you said and considering what we have now croc is a strong guy out there.
Well, it's not like he convinced Luffy to drink it but rather he used it in an armed battle. If that doesn't speak for basic combat skills then Zoro also doesn't count as a good fighter because he's always using swords.
If he would have used only his hook without the poison it would have been ok. But using poison is like "well if he is stronger than me and got hurt by my hook he will soon die and i will win." To me that's a cheap cheat. Swords are normal battle weapons. Everyone can hold a sword. To be able to slash like zoro you would have to train every day your physical strength and surpass you. A df can be used in different ways but it's just a huge power up compared to swords for example. It's just that you can be so strong without even training when you eat a DF. That's what i don't like about them.
Actually Kizaru's Logia pretty much requires some tough ass mothersmurfer. I mean imagine if Usopp would have that ability. He'd break his bones with the first light speed kick he uses. The speed is weight factor doesn't only apply to the one you hit but also to the one who attacks. If you have a weak body your bones will shater ones you use light speed attacks with your real body. But apparently it didn't have any effect on Kizaru.
But usopp will be able without training to shoot light beams that can instantly kill gin. And here we are talking about the admirals the top fighter of the marines. I recognize that my statement was wrong. They have physical strength. So i cannot compare them to croc.
Actually I'd chose a combination of both. Going by fighting power alone (no matter if DF abilities or combat skills) Luffy isn't as good as them. Let's face it he has a rather inferior DF ability and his combat skills are the ones of a brawler and not of a trained martial artist. On that field he's weaker. But he's stronger then anyone because of his inner spear (as Zeff has called it). The has the heart of a true fighter which it is that makes him win the fight. Yes, that makes Crocodile inferior to him. But I ask you, is there any antagonists that in the end won't be inferior because of exactly that? No matter who the final villain will be, he'll fall because of the very same thing. I don't see how this can be an argument against Crocodile when each single villain is destined to end like that.
I agree that luffy is weak :) The fact that he defeated croc is probably because he is the main hero and he must somehow knock croc. It's as if oda was struggling to find how luffy can win with all his lacks. Croc should have win because of his experience because of his logia. But no luffy won. And that alone makes croc weak cause if you think about it there is no way croc should have lost to luffy with his huge logia abilities against a paramecia DF user who hasn't even perfected his fighting skills.
Actually it's pretty clear what Auger is basing this statement on. Teach used his ability on Ace and it wasn't an OHKO. Which means Ace was so good as a fighter to put up a really hard fight even though fighting handicapped.
But ace fought only with his DF abilities. Why didn't he tried to kick BB? BB wasn't even holding his 2 arms.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/441/12/
Was he so surprised that he couldn't even move? Or is it also an effect of BBs fruit to completely paralyse the opponent?
And this:
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/441/15/
Why did he do that when he knew that it would have no effect on BB since his fruit will absorb the fire? Weird. The whole time only fire fire fire attacks…
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