That is my quess.
[438] Monkey D. Sociopath
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That is my quess.
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I wonder if they'll ever go into detail about the other chars parents? (excluding Chopper, of course)
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This post is deleted!
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Or Luffy's mom could have gone with Dragon for whatever reason he left. Also, does Ace know about Dragon? Or anything, for that matter?
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Retardation would make sense if he bahaved retardedly. Luffy isn't retarded. He might be a tad slow, but I doubt it, because he puts things together well when fired up.
But his repetitive behavior, words, actions, twitches whatever, and his inability to register input or other people at times points to the autism.
…Luffy does have 'retard strength' though. So I give you that concession.
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Luffy isn´t retarded or an idiot.
The problem with Luffy is that for him is more important his world (composed by his Nakamas, their dreams and his dream) that he cannot see the consequences that all that he does.
This is why Luffy got guts for fight against Crocodile and attacking Ennies Lobby.
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@Dr.:
Silly Ressel. What makes you think Luffy is autistic?
Rocketgal and Pios Amhain, I'm assuming.
But in any case, Luffy ain't right in the head. I don't really think he cares for people he, uh, doesn't care about. Like when Gin shot that random marine guy dead at Baratie. Just about any other shonen hero would have been "OH MY GOD!" but he was just "Oh."
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Well, can't he just be stupid?
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Hence the "functional" part of the retardardation. Autism would mean that he would have an information over imput issue and over processing issue. It would mean that he would have the issue of overwhelming information. Luffy doesn't register and doesn't process, not
the other way around which points to more worked around brain damage that control inhibition/filtration issues.If Luffy was autistic there would be an inabilty to cope.
Luffy is also definitely not histrionic, that would require that he be a personality that requires itself to be center stage, his abilty to delegate authority to those more qualified than himself and his lack of overactive ego are directly counter to the central requirement of a histrionic personality.
Sociopathy is so defined by the below diagnostic criteria.
- failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest
- deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure
- impulsivity or failure to plan ahead
- irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated fights or assaults (both physically or mentally)
- reckless disregard for safety of self or others
- consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain steady work or honor financial obligations
- lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another
The only point that Luffy doesn't fit to a T is 2. he is not deceitful in the least. But every other fits like a well worn glove.
That being said the central point of not relating to other is untrue in his case, however it is interesting to note that the narrower range of emotional response is a more interesting point.
If a sociopath doesn't have empathy for others because they have a limited array of emotional responses, then the question becomes that of WHAT emotional responses they give. If luffy has deep emotional responses in only CERTAIN categories and a complete lack of empathy in others then he is in fact a sociopath. Not a garden variety sociopath for sure, and a very localized case. But the textbook definition of sociopath fits him very well.
The problem is that the common usage of sociopath is more in line with the actual definition of PSYCHOPATH.
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But his repetitive behavior, words, actions, twitches whatever, and his inability to register input or other people at times points to the autism.
I can only think of two repetitive phrases/terms he uses ("kick so-and-so's ass" and "it's a mystery ___"), and can't think of any behaviors, actions, or twitches.
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Rocketgal and Pios Amhain, I'm assuming.
Partially. Rocketgal and I have talked about that for years. She came at it from the angle of autism and it makes sense. Low level autism. He's also low level narcoleptic.
He tends not to have a very high recognition of anything outside of his own world of thought and want, and even ignores what he does to others in his destructive path. Luffy tends to be weirdly possessive of odd things (like the perch on merry's head).
He could be retarded, 'eccentric', have Aspberger's or whatever odd little syndromes people can dig up. I believe it is autism.
- Luffy does do repetitive moves in the anime. You find them time to time. He will repeat something insane and minor. COULD be an animation mistake, but I think not since it happens often enough.
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I find it amusing that despite the fact that every single member of this board adores luffy as the hero of on of their favorite adventure series, there hasn't been a single voice declaring that luffy is a socially well adjusted individual that fights for the Good of the world at large.
Isn't there anyone on this board that thinks luffy is just an ordinary guy with extraordinary power, or do we all just love luffy because he's a little bit crazy?
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Actually, Luffy is rarely the reason most people watch the show or read the anime. He takes center in most story arcs because Oda places him there as the biggest will with some of the greatest power.
Luffy isn't well adjusted. If he was well adjusted he wouldn't be on the high seas on a self centered, selfish adventure, picking fights with everyone and getting into trouble. He'd be back on ISLAND X and tilling a field.
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I wouldn't really put Luffy as being retarded or autistic. Simple is probably the best term; and maybe a little bit of ADD and/or apathy thrown in as well. I also wouldn't call him stupid - just uneducated. If you think about it, he's probably never had any sort of formal education in his entire life. And being raised by the likes of Garp, Luffy probably never got the moral upbringing that most of us have had. I'd imagine that being sent off into the sky tied to a balloon is pretty harsh emotionally for a child.
Besides, Luffy's more street smart than anything. His true genius lies in fighting – he is very creative and adapts well to dangerous situations. Aside from this, he also understands people extremely well, which is how he was able to aquire such a stellar crew.
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Aw, you are so fond of him you are making excues for his shortcoming.
It's like family!
WE ARE FAMIREE!He's flawed.
Everyone loves something flawed. People beat each other unconscious in 1985 to take a Cabbage Patch Doll for Christmas.
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Of course he's flawed. They're all flawed. It wouldn't be interesting if they weren't. Speaking of which, what is Franky's flaw? His strange attitude?
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Franky is one big flaw….shall we start with his choice of pants?
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Franky is one big flaw
Good point.
….shall we start with his choice of pants?
Also a good point, though speedo != pants (!= means does not equal). Luffy needs to hurry up and make it mandatory for all men to wear real pants on his ship at all time. ^_^
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Well, whatever Speedos are, I DON'T LIKE THEM.
A man's crotch has no grace. It shouldn't be squeezed into cling wrap.
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Isn't there anyone on this board that thinks luffy is just an ordinary guy with extraordinary power, or do we all just love luffy because he's a little bit crazy?
I don't really like Luffy in that way. It's definately not forced, but he is the only character who hasn't undergone massive change throughout the series. He generally seems to stand up, and always comes through. When Luffy first approached Maxim and screamed to Enel, I squirmed in my seat with excitment.
Alot is expected from him, but I'd rather focus my attention on some other characters who show blatent change. Say, Usopp or Robin.
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The main character of any Shonen series is always constrained by the stereotypes of the genre. They can't really have a whole host of interesting traits and still remain marketable to the standards of their paymasters.
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@Private:
When Luffy first approached Maxim and screamed to Enel, I squirmed in my seat with excitment.
Changes seats, moves back two rows, drinks heavily, curls into fetal position
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Its okay, on the internet you have to learn to embrace the man love. Just relax, if you fight it then your just going to get yourself hurt. The drinking is of course a great idea, as it opens the mind and… it opens the mind.
Plus there is of course the outside chance that Zulen is a woman.... yeah....
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WHAT!?!?
'Good chance'?!
They told me over at the Naruto boards that ALL One Piece fans are girls. That's why I am here!…
JUST KIDDING. I never hung out at the Naruto boards.
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All I can say about them is that they are… responsive... those narutofans... but then again who really wants productive... fans... its like mixed drinks with red bull. Drunkard with energy, brilliant.
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I always called it 'Red Bullshit' because it worked on a socialist-communist level of mindless faith with a lot of crap product. That stuff never shifted my bones worth a damn. Give me espresso any day.
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I would be inclined to side with you except I remember the effects of one of those on my brother when he was 13 or so. It was the british version which I hear has more of the active ingredient (FDA regulations prevent such dosage in US), though that could be an urban legend. After half a can his heart was beating like a hummingbirds and he was literally running up walls. There was no chance that it was psychosomatic as none of us had heard of the stuff before it touched his lips and he himself wasn't even present for the purchase.
The stuff works. Though it may be an issue of compatible biochemistry.
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Yeah. Maybe. I think most adults are more susceptible to marketing then chemistry tho. I can feel coffee, liquor, and hard drugs, I can feel Dr. Pepper, and Coke, and potato chips, candy bars, Snapple, and a Big Mac on my metabolism…. but Red BullCrap is useless.
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Haha, Energy Drinks, who needs thoose when you can't keep yourself calm around more than 4 people?!?!? YAY BEAR.
Seriously though, I dont think Luffy's crazy, I think he's a very driven young man, who loves his Freinds and his dream. Possibly he's OCD but deffaintly not a sociopath, unless he was torturing small animals, and his crewmates, then he might be.
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Steve, I must take exception to something you posted above, to wit,
"A man's crotch has no grace. It shouldn't be squeezed into cling wrap."
You have the right idea, but I fear it is for all of the wrong reasons. As a man, I know my crotch to be entirely too graceful to ever be 'squeezed into cling wrap'. The day the Speedo was invented, Satan laughed and the Abe Lincoln Memorial cried blood. It is evil.
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While it is true that bedwetting, pyromania and cruelty to animals doesn't fit his pre adolescent profile, his adult profile certainly has developed certain… eccentricities befitting a sociopath.
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@_Meh_:
I know my crotch to be entirely too graceful to ever be 'squeezed into cling wrap'.
Oh no. You must be one of those guys who falls in love with their own groin, names it, and the hairs individually, talks to it, dresses it up in little action figure clothes, etc.
You have to stop.
Your groin has no artistic value. Even women don't want to see that thing more then they have to. When the tree of knowledge gave onto Adam, what was the first thing he realized? "This thing is disgusting! I need something bigger then a speedo."
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Nah, I was just having fun with you. A little humor between the drawn out geekish overanalysis I am prone to posting.
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Eve….......ill
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Your groin has no artistic value. Even women don't want to see that thing more then they have to. When the tree of knowledge gave onto Adam, what was the first thing he realized? "This thing is disgusting! I need something bigger then a speedo."
Male stretch-pants. The Strawhat's greatest foe?
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ONE PIECE is about protecting the world from awful, flamboyant fashion.
Captain Sensible, I mean Donflamingo Quixotic is not exempt. Mugiwara will take that old, mangy straw hat and beat Donnie Flamin'-go back to hick fashions.
PS- reference Mr. #2.
Hello Don, I mean, Captain.
Captain wore a furry pink shirt/coat on the cover to 'Machine Gun Ettiquette' and toured in it.I heard DonF's First Mate is …
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must've been cold on that stage
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Cold enough my son… cold enough.
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Wow, lots of interesting discussion in this thread – I wish I'd found it earlier so that my post wouldn't be so unwieldy! Anyways ...
Captain Sensible …
"I said Wot!"
(or would it be more appropriate for us to sing the Captain's cover version of "Happy Talk" – since it's all about how one must have dreams or else …)
Egads Ressel -- you must be at least as old as I am to know who Sensible was! And are you absolutely certain you weren't one of the Flaming Lips in a previous life? Your avatar and writing style keep pointing in that direction. And while the subject is music : would you agree with me that Lafitte is Ziggy, since I agree with you that DoFlamingo is Sensible. (see message 552 in this thread for evidence -- )
http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=9201&page=28
Now about those pesky D. sociopaths –
Luffy doesn't make himself out as a hero that fights bad guys because they do bad things … His motivation for fighting comes about when he meets someone whose noble dream has been desecrated, and he will fight whoever it takes to make that dream come to light.
In retrospect... that is a little psycho...
So in other words, just like the Captain Sensible cover-version of "Happy Talk", you've gotta have a dream – and a noble one at that! -- because if you don't have a dream, Luffy will kick your ass.
Yep, sounds a little bit psycho to me too, Boiga.
In an odd sort of way, it also makes me think of "Pirates of Penzance", where the pirates (who are all orphans), will let any prisoner escape who can prove he was once an orphan. So as soon as the policemen, the Major-General, etc discover this convienent loophole, yep, you guessed it, they all conveniently become "orphans".
I can imagine some future foe trying to play that same card, telling Luffy -- just as he's warming up for Gear 10 or whatever -- "But wait! What about my honorable dream to free the world from tyrrany, to educate the masses, to clothe and feed the poor, to find homes for the stray animals, to cure cancer, to remove all the landmines from the farmlands, etc ..."
In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the foe was Dragon.
He doesn't even search out fights with difficult enemies for training purpose (think how he avoided messing with smoker).
The case of Smoker is interesting. After Sanji saves them from the cage, Luffy orders Zoro to save Smoker. Why? What has Luffy seen to change his mind about Smoker? Is it because Smoker wants to destroy Croc, too? Is that enough for Luffy – that if Smoker isn't part of the problem, he must be part of the solution? Or is it something more? And I get the feeling, from what Luffy says to Smoker after both are pulled from the water ("Whoa! Hey! It's Smokey, you wanna fight!!") it's as if Luffy has no memory of what he told Zoro to do seconds earlier. And yet after Smoker lets the Mugiwara escape, Luffy says "You know, I don't hate you after all". Has he recovered his memory about why he initially wanted to save Smoker, or is he just basing his opinion off of Smoker's most recent action, or do Luffy's feelings about Smoker really swing that much like a pendulum from moment to moment? I'd like to hear what the rest of you think about this.
Just because we don't see Luffy making trousers out of someone's skin does not mean he is not sociopathic. On the other hand, just as long as circumstance plays in his favor, Luffy will continue looking like a hero.
This is an excellent point, and history is filled with cases where someone who might have been considered an eccentric or a psycopath or etc is instead lauded as a hero or a genius because the times happened to coincide with his or her particular way of thinking, acting or fighting. I think it was Balthasar Gracian who once said that when the times are crazy, the insane man seems sane and the sane man seems insane. So maybe what we have here are times that coincide with Luffy's particular brand of insanity, so that he not only adapts well, but flourishes. In more rational times, it's doubtful he would have accomplished as much using the same methods he does now.
Of course the real problem is in the vocabulary.
Agreed! Since the terms "retarded", "sociopath", "autism" and etc are so often incorrectly used, and so often used in negative contexts, though I doubt they were originally intended that way – it's difficult for many people to think of them without a lot of baggage. But we have nothing better to use to classify these types of personality traits, so we've got to make the best of those terms and just be very very clear about what we mean by them (just as you did), because someone else's understanding of the term may be different.
The only moment when Luffy behaved in a cruel way was when he attacked Zoro in Whiskey Peak. A complete stranger told him that his nakama killed innocent people (which was the truth without the "innocent" bit) and he believed instantly. When Zoro wanted to explain what happened, Luffy said that he didn't care. And he didn't hold back in the resulting duel. Of course, when Nami ended the fight the way she did it all started looking like a gag. But I can't find an excuse for Luffy. Was he really that stupid?
Natli, this is an excellent point!
It's puzzled me for a long time, too : Luffy seems to have such rock-solid faith in Zoro and Zoro's actions in the rest of the story – why would Luffy be so quick to distrust Zoro in Whiskey Peak? Was it because they were still in the early stages of their friendship and didn't completely trust each other at that point? Was Luffy just sleepy? or drunk? or suffering from a bad case of indegestion? Why was he so willing to believe that Zoro could betray his trust
that quickly -- and why believe a stranger, and let the stranger tell his side of the story without letting Zoro tell his side, too?The only thing I can think of -- and this is a flimsy explanation at best -- is that maybe Luffy was thinking of Zoro's conditions for joining him : that if Luffy ever got in the way of Zoro's dream, that Zoro would desert him and make Luffy kill himself. Was Luffy thinking that this was the beginning of Zoro's desertion -- that by killing all these people who'd been so "hospitable" to them a few hours earlier, Zoro's was basically saying "Thanks for sneaking me into the Grand Line, Luffy! It's been fun, but I gotta go slaughter a bunch of innocent people to test my swords out and then go chase down that Mihawk guy -- See ya!! ...
If that was the case, then I could (sort of) understand Luffy's anger -- but even after Zoro managed to say enough to Luffy to justify his actions and (hopefully) cause Luffy to reconsider who was the real villian, Luffy was still going after him, and with the intent to kill!
… and the most interesting thing about that (to me at least) was the effect to had on Zoro. Zoro, who had no thoughts of abandoning his captain at that point, basically became a deserter. Basically started turning away from Luffy by accepting the terms of the fight. It wasn't until Nami's "Fist of Love" smacked some sense into both of them that the desertion ended and the discussion began. What would have happened if Nami hadn't been there to intervene?
And as long as we're talking about pyschological disorders, one could easily make the case that Zoro has obsessive-compulsive tendencies. But that's best left for another thread.
One last thing : Speedos - No! Board-shorts -- Yes!
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Guys, I figured it out.
Luffy is…
Russell Crowe.