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it was already indicated more than once that luffy will have to go through the yonko in order to get the treasure

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It has never been indicated because it's a ridiculous thing to take literally. That's the problem so many people seem to have with trying to figure out stories, taking things they shouldn't literally.
To go the final seas and figure out how to get to the treasure obviously means you come into contact with all the other people goo enough to get near the end. It's a dangerous sea full of strong guys. You need to be able to compete with them and survive. As well as survive against the best the government can send to take you out.
You do not need to one by one take them out like goddamn video game bosses in order to get the last piece of the Raftel Key.

i fail but to notice you keep denying my statements without giving a proper scenario in which luffy finds one piece without having to defeat teach , that's all i was asking for

He finds the way to Raftel without having to directly confront Blackbeard, therefore he goes to Raftel because the whole point of the journey is going to Raftel. Or Blackbeard is being held back by some setback like increased confrontation with Shanks and is seemingly temporarily weakened.

like how do we know kaido and big mom will be defeated before finding the treasure !

Because they are infinitely less important characters in every way than Blackbeard.
That's what got pointed out in the other thread over and over, how the anti-BB people somehow missed out on how much build up and devotion Oda has given the Blackbeard crew as a rising threat ever since Vol. 16.
How you can throw him in the same category as those two is beyond me.

The Franky Tank

I need to look at the old thread at some point, as it seems like there was interesting debates there.

For a while I assumed that Blackbeard would be the last Yonkou defeated, and after One Piece was found they would go fight the WG with all their allies together. As time has gone on, I'm a lot less unsure, and it's because there are so many different things going on, depending on how it plays out will determine who the actual final villain will be. After thinking it over, I have come up with a new theory on how the final stuff will go on.

So we know that the WG will have a fight on their hand if One Piece is discovered. At that time the Pirate King would be able to unite a huge force and would most likely be able to easily take them out. If how much it took to take out White Beard showed us anything, it's that a united Pirate Force would probably be hard for them to take out (This is making certain assumptions that could be answered over the next few arcs). With Big Mom and Kaido out, and Shanks most likely being crippled by Black Beard, Luffy and Black Beard will be the two big names about to fight over who gets One Piece, who becomes Pirate King, and once that's done, the WG is next.

The WG knows lots of stuff most of the world doesn't know, and knows that they are doomed when a Pirate King is named, but that the secrets of the Void Century can cause a lot of damage, hence they didn't want the secrets out. For what they consider the greater good, they send out all their forces to take both out at once. To them, this would be a decisive blow on the Pirate movement. If they took out the two figureheads of becoming Pirate King, as well as many other big names, they effectively boost their name across the world, and no one would want to try to go for the treasure, since if they took out those powerhouses, how would they stand a chance.

Dragon finds out the World Government is making it's move, and decides this is the best chance to strike. If Luffy is in the fray with his alliance, with the help of the Revolutionary Army it would be feasible to take out the WG and Black Beard. Dragon could then become even bigger, and being Luffy's father would really increase his influence as well. So in the end we have Luffy Vs Blackbeard with the WG coming to take both of them out, and the Revolutionary Army coming in to take out the WG once in for all.

With four powerful factions going at it, chaos would obviously ensue. With this, Luffy would probably lose sight of Black Beard, and come across Akainu. Since he has a bigger grudge there, he would ignore Black Beard for the time and fight Akainu. Once all the chaos ended, all sides have taken heavy damage, but Black Beard is no where to be seen, and a number of his crew has also fled. Black Beard was able to get to Raftel during that time, find out about the void century, and lands a decisive blow on the other three weakened factions. He proclaims himself king, and with the knowledge he will unleash chaos into the world, since he is chaotic freedom.

Luffy and Dragon find out about the Void Century and learn that if Black Beard unleashes the various weapons, the world would be doomed. Dragon and the WG realize that they should not be fighting each other, but that they should help each other to stop this. While their ideals are somewhat different, they both do not want chaos to reign. Luffy still wants to be the pirate king, and does not want Black Beard's ambitions to become true. The three weakened powers pool in all their resources to take down Black Beard.

A big assumption is that Oda will not make the WG a complete corrupted figure. Lately it seems to be going that way, but it also seems that with so many power struggles, certain things are bound to happen. Also being an antagonist to the Straw Hats will make them look that much worse.

So basically, Black Beard would actually be pirate king, and be on the verge of winning, but a united effort would cause him to fall. There's a chance that Luffy would fight Shanks before the final battle, so Shanks could see if Luffy is truly ready.

Let me know what you guys think. It is a huge stretch, with many things yet to happen to make this even a plausible theory. If done right, I think it could be a really cool finale to a great series.

Jules197

@Monkey:

Nothing in this post makes any sense. You're done. You're arguments have been reveled to be structurally unsound and built on nothing but popsicle sticks and elmer's glue.

I'm amazed at how much of a spoiled brat you are. Sorry, care to explain exactly why I'm "done"? You make it sound as if your theory is backed up by undeniable evidence and proof. You are unable to accept that the hints we have been given so far could lead up to different outcomes, instead you just assume your fetish finale is set in stone. You take it for granted that from what we have up to this point, there is only one possible outcome and are unable to even consider different scenarios just because you consider them inferior to the one of your preference. Do you realize how arrogant it sounds when you say that your ideas are correct and everyone else's who disagree with you are wrong when you have absolutely NO EVIDENCE whatsoever that that is the case? I guess you don't. Anyway, not going to waste my time with this discussion anymore. Have fun!

Monkey King

@Jules197:

I'm amazed at how much of a spoiled brat you are. Sorry, care to explain exactly why I'm "done"?

You posted completely nonsensical conclusions on how the treasure discovery will play out. Both things you wrote were nonsense.
And I pointed out how, but because you are mad about it you're going to do that thing you do where you pretend that means I said nothing of substance. Since you're upset about it. Not how debate works. Feel free to actually respond to the contradictions and plot holes I pointed out in your response rather than acting like an offended Southern Belle.

You are unable to accept that the hints we have been given so far could lead up to different outcomes, instead you just assume your fetish finale is set in stone.

I don't even have to have my own theory for what you posted up there to be completely nonsensical. Anyone could leap in here and point out the problems in your post. This has nothing to do with my theory.

unable to even consider different scenarios

YOUR SCENARIOS MAKE NO SENSE.
You're like someone suggesting I can't stand your differing idea of bridge design, when the problem is the bridge you're suggesting would collapse immediately.

doviethung20140

This post is deleted!

JaxSazz

@doviethung20140:

uppp cho bác nhiều view nha

Definitely. 16 chars

moud

@Monkey:

It has never been indicated because it's a ridiculous thing to take literally. That's the problem so many people seem to have with trying to figure out stories, taking things they shouldn't literally.
To go the final seas and figure out how to get to the treasure obviously means you come into contact with all the other people goo enough to get near the end. It's a dangerous sea full of strong guys. You need to be able to compete with them and survive. As well as survive against the best the government can send to take you out.
You do not need to one by one take them out like goddamn video game bosses in order to get the last piece of the Raftel Key.

you asked for the qualifications of going after one piece , well literally and figuratively chingao in oda's stead made it clear that you'll have to confront the yonko and the admirals and surpass roger in order to get there , i can't see another way of interpreting this
the Yonko aren't just strong pirates scattered around the New world they are the ones ruling over it , you can't cross this check point without making any contact with them , the confrontation is inevitable

your words should apply more on the warlords were you have strong pirates scattered all over the sea luffy wasn't supposed to go through every one of them in order to cross the sea , even though he kept on magically stumbling on them wherever he goes
so yeah in this aspect one piece is more like a video game than a real life story

@Monkey:

He finds the way to Raftel without having to directly confront Blackbeard, therefore he goes to Raftel because the whole point of the journey is going to Raftel. Or Blackbeard is being held back by some setback like increased confrontation with Shanks and is seemingly temporarily weakened.

Because they are infinitely less important characters in every way than Blackbeard.
That's what got pointed out in the other thread over and over, how the anti-BB people somehow missed out on how much build up and devotion Oda has given the Blackbeard crew as a rising threat ever since Vol. 16.
How you can throw him in the same category as those two is beyond me.

being more important in the plot doesn't change the fact that he is as much of a yonko as any of them and that he is a rival to the throne

actually this scenario doesn't sound as bad as i thought it'd be
but you see the thing about it is that you neglected the element of accumulation by eliminating BB from the race .. imo luffy needs to earn one piece not sneak behind his biggest rival in order to get it , that will just take away from the moment of glory

plus , this theory seems pretty forced in a way that'd postpone the BB confrontation for the final war , i understand why you'd wanna do that but the other thing here is that in this case BB is not the only villain in the war cos we know for sure the WG will be included into this , so instead of defeating BB in his own arc where he is the main threat you only weakened his value as a villain by making him one of many major threats

the final chaos is another game for other rivals

hosemisnuba

Guys, Oda has had the finale of One Piece plotted out since the series inception. If anybody but Blackbeard was the final villain, you'd think you'd find Akainu or the Goresei in One Piece's first databook. But you don't. What you do find are early sketches of Blackbeard. What does this prove: Blackbeard is meant to be the single most important antagonist in One Piece. This means that he's probably the final villain.

moud

Guys, Oda has had the finale of One Piece plotted out since the series inception. If anybody but Blackbeard was the final villain, you'd think you'd find Akainu or the Goresei in One Piece's first databook. But you don't. What you do find are early sketches of Blackbeard. What does this prove: Blackbeard is meant to be the single most important antagonist in One Piece. This means that he's probably the final villain.

i think BB will be the most important villain and probably the strongest but not the final ..
the way i see it the story has two games with two different goals , the first is finding one piece/raftel (becoming the pirate king) and the second is what's after that which also most likely relates to the one piece (the final war)
BB is part of the first game as a rival for the pirate king title in a way he's the final villain in that game but not in the overall story

hosemisnuba

i think BB will be the most important villain and probably the strongest but not the final ..
the way i see it the story has two games with two different goals , the first is finding one piece/raftel (becoming the pirate king) and the second is what's after that which also most likely relates to the one piece (the final war)
BB is part of the first game as a rival for the pirate king title in a way he's the final villain in that game but not in the overall story

Have you ever considered a three way clash with Blackbeard, Luffy and friends, and the World Government? That's how I picture the final war of One Piece. I'm not the most well spoken individual, so I will refrain from arguing anything, but come on man, Blackbeard is more than some final challenge for Luffy; he is chaos incarnate; do you really expect the clash of ideals between chaos and freedo, to not show up in the final confrontation. It's core to the story for crying out loud.

ARTEMlS

plus , this theory seems pretty forced in a way that'd postpone the BB confrontation for the final war ,

No, this isn't necessarily the case. There can (but don't have to) be one or more confrontations before, but just without a definitive conclusion.

so instead of defeating BB in his own arc where he is the main threat you only weakened his value as a villain by making him one of many major threats

I disagree that his value would be weakened. Actually his value would get strengthened instead because the arc we're talking about is no one other than the very final arc. How can being the final boss of the whole overall story weaken him? Sure it could theoretically be possibly due to bad execution, but being the final boss as the sole reason? Nope.

Shadowgreed

i think BB will be the most important villain and probably the strongest but not the final ..
the way i see it the story has two games with two different goals , the first is finding one piece/raftel (becoming the pirate king) and the second is what's after that which also most likely relates to the one piece (the final war)
BB is part of the first game as a rival for the pirate king title in a way he's the final villain in that game but not in the overall story

Which side will posses two Ancient Weapons?

hosemisnuba

Which side will posses two Ancient Weapons?

Yeah, does Moud really think that three ancient weapons isn't indicative of something? To me, it's rather apparent that the Blackbeards will have Pluton, World Government will have Uranus, and Strawhat and co will have Poseidon. What are your thoughts.

Shadowgreed

Yeah, does Moud really think that three ancient weapons isn't indicative of something? To me, it's rather apparent that the Blackbeards will have Pluton, World Government will have Uranus, and Strawhat and co will have Poseidon. What are your thoughts.

That's what I get from his posts.

I for once don't think that the Strawhats will have control over Poseidon but rather the World Goverment, it just seems to simple to get involved in a war of this magnitude and just call this princess for help (Ironic isn't), I rather see the WG threatening/kidnapping Shirahoshi and using her against her will by telling her that If she doesn't do what they say they will kill the Fishmans and will never allow them to live among humans, the racist card is going to be played to the highest level this time around and will give Luffy way more reasons to go and destroy them, but all this has to happen after Luffy takes them above the sea and place them some place safe by this time this knowledge might be made public since it will happen after the destruction of Fishman Island. (Magi don't quote me)

I should elaborate that better, but oh well.

Mortein

Yeah, does Moud really think that three ancient weapons isn't indicative of something? To me, it's rather apparent that the Blackbeards will have Pluton, World Government will have Uranus, and Strawhat and co will have Poseidon. What are your thoughts.

IMO SH will have Poseidon, WG will have Pluton, and Enel will come down from the moon with Uranus in a squeal of OP.

moud

Have you ever considered a three way clash with Blackbeard, Luffy and friends, and the World Government? That's how I picture the final war of One Piece. I'm not the most well spoken individual, so I will refrain from arguing anything, but come on man, Blackbeard is more than some final challenge for Luffy; he is chaos incarnate; do you really expect the clash of ideals between chaos and freedo, to not show up in the final confrontation. It's core to the story for crying out loud.

i considered it and already gave my input regarding that in my previous posts .. no need to argue anything i just wanted to know how do you guys see BB as a final villain .. and i think that clash's perfect timing would be before finding one piece and i gave my reasoning
also the symbolism between the two crews where you have 10 members in each crew foreshadows a perfect 1vs1 set ups that's another reason for why i can't imagine a 3 way fight

@Bartholemew:

No, this isn't necessarily the case. There can (but don't have to) be one or more confrontations before, but just without a definitive conclusion.

i was talking about Monkey King's theory in which luffy goes to raftel without confronting BB

I disagree that his value would be weakened. Actually his value would get strengthened instead because the arc we're talking about is no one other than the very final arc. How can being the final boss of the whole overall story weaken him? Sure it could theoretically be possibly due to bad execution, but being the final boss as the sole reason? Nope.

i'd agree if he would actually be THE final villain but in that case he's one of many final villains , he wouldn't be the only enemy in that war
and luffy by then is the pirate king they wouldn't be fighting on the same grounds as rivals anymore
so yeah i'd prefer a final confrontation where he's the only main threat

Which side will posses two Ancient Weapons?

Yeah, does Moud really think that three ancient weapons isn't indicative of something? To me, it's rather apparent that the Blackbeards will have Pluton, World Government will have Uranus, and Strawhat and co will have Poseidon. What are your thoughts.

we already know of three major players who will probably take part in the final war and could possibly posses the three weapons (WG , pirates , revolutionaries) .. so i agree with hosemisnuba this could be indicative but not necessarily in one definite way

Monkey King

you asked for the qualifications of going after one piece , well literally and figuratively chingao in oda's stead made it

It wasn't either literal or figurative. It was nothing more than a "YOU THINK YOU CAN PLAY WITH THE BIG KIDS LITTLE BOY???" statement.

that you'll have to confront the yonko and the admirals and surpass roger in order to get there ,

Roger never had to face Yonkou. But I'm glad you brought up the idea of surpassing Roger, because the true method of doing so isn't completing the journey and finding One Piece. That's just repeating Roger. Surpassing Roger would be doing something with it next, the part Roger and crew could not do. That's what's important in all this.

your words should apply more on the warlords were you have strong pirates scattered all over the sea luffy wasn't supposed to go through every one of them in order to cross the sea , even though he kept on magically stumbling on them wherever he goes

That's exactly the same deal with the Yonkou. It's already been stated that they have specific territories and islands under their control, they're not all lined up in a row right before Raftel like video game bosses.
It's entirely possible that in the process of targeting Kaidou, that much of say Big Mom's territory will be passed by (I still think she is the target of Kidd and his alliance).
Meanwhile we also know that with what Law will do that the careful Cold War order of the New World will fall apart, meaning by the time the Strawhats even get near the narrower end seas, that the Yonkou still around will be probably at open war with eachother and the Marines. One little pirate ship entering a warzone isn't going to run into every combatant in that warzone. All of whom who are going to be super busy.

being more important in the plot doesn't change the fact that he is as much of a yonko as any of them and that he is a rival to the throne

It changes that incredibly, this is also true of Shanks.
Kaidou and Big Mom are at the end of the day just big strong characters.
Blackbeard on the other hand is a dark mirror of our hero whose been built up since book 15.
Shanks is the mentor fatherly figure who provided the inciting everything for the entire plot and has been included in almost every single volume's character page.
It indicates that Oda has something special planned for them, in Blackbeard's case as a villain (Built up more than ANY other villain) he will almost really obviously play a role beyond Raftel. And the most obvious role would be as the very last adversary Luffy fights.
Unfortunately for Shanks, we should all be familiar with what happens to mentor figures in fantasy quest stories.

but you see the thing about it is that you neglected the element of accumulation by eliminating BB from the race

And when did I do that.

.. imo luffy needs to earn one piece not sneak behind his biggest rival in order to get it , that will just take away from the moment of glory

Good point, figuring out how to access a treasure island that has gone unfound for upwards of two decades even though the world's best adventurer warriors have been looking for it…not an impressive feat at all. He has to punch a guy instead.
You do seem to have not at all thought about the nature of Raftel, that it's hidden somehow.

plus , this theory seems pretty forced in a way that'd postpone the BB confrontation for the final war ,

Being tangled into combat with Shank's forces is contrived how?

i understand why you'd wanna do that but the other thing here is that in this case BB is not the only villain in the war

I've never said he would be. But he will be the last and most dangerous at that point.

cos we know for sure the WG will be included into this ,

I don't think the Gorusei are true villains. Antagonists yes. But I think near the end they'll be taken out, maybe in a coup.
Akainu going nuts is sure to provide the main force of WG villainly. But he is absolutely not the final villain lol.

so instead of defeating BB in his own arc where he is the main threat you only weakened his value as a villain by making him one of many major threats

I've made him the biggest threat in the entire series, sitting as the most dangerous element in a huge earth changing war.
What you people are suggesting is he's just the last mook boss lol.
YOU guys are the ones pissing away nearly 15 years of build up for "he's in the way of the treasure….like all the other guys".

the final chaos is another game for other rivals

Explain to me what you think the final chaos involves.

hosemisnuba

i considered it and already gave my input regarding that in my previous posts .. no need to argue anything i just wanted to know how do you guys see BB as a final villain .. and i think that clash's perfect timing would be before finding one piece and i gave my reasoning
also the symbolism between the two crews where you have 10 members in each crew foreshadows a perfect 1vs1 set ups that's another reason for why i can't imagine a 3 way fight

The battle would not be symbolic because each crew has 10 members; its symbolic because it struggle between freedom and chaos, with Luffy representing freedom and Blackbeard representing chaos.

I'd agree if he would actually be THE final villain but in that case he's one of many final villains , he wouldn't be the only enemy in that war
and luffy by then is the pirate king they wouldn't be fighting on the same grounds as rivals anymore
so yeah i'd prefer a final confrontation where he's the only main threat

That's the thing; Blackbeard would be the final villain. After the Strawhats and co, and the Blackbeards take care of the World Government, Blackbeard would remain as the only antagonist to take care of. See, you'll get what you want in a three way clash.

we already know of three major players who will probably take part in the final war and could possibly posses the three weapons (WG , pirates , revolutionaries) .. so i agree with hosemisnuba this could be indicative but not necessarily in one definite way

Do you really think the revolutionaries possess an ancient weapon? Even if they did, wouldn't you think it would be a little unbalanced if Luffy's allies possessed two of the three. I think you're confused about which three factions will partake in the war.

moud

@Monkey:

It wasn't either literal or figurative. It was nothing more than a "YOU THINK YOU CAN PLAY WITH THE BIG KIDS LITTLE BOY???" statement.

chinjao was denying every thing that we know for sure luffy will eventually accomplish !!

Roger never had to face Yonkou. But I'm glad you brought up the idea of surpassing Roger, because the true method of doing so isn't completing the journey and finding One Piece. That's just repeating Roger. Surpassing Roger would be doing something with it next, the part Roger and crew could not do. That's what's important in all this.

do we even know if there were yonko back then or how did roger get to be the PK ? i agree by surpassing roger he probably means doing what roger didn't/couldn't do which relates to the meaning of one piece .. funny how you took only that part of chinjao's speech seriously

That's exactly the same deal with the Yonkou. It's already been stated that they have specific territories and islands under their control, they're not all lined up in a row right before Raftel like video game bosses.
It's entirely possible that in the process of targeting Kaidou, that much of say Big Mom's territory will be passed by (I still think she is the target of Kidd and his alliance).

you completely missed the point , luffy confronted every warlord even though "they're not all lined up in a row like video game bosses"

Meanwhile we also know that with what Law will do that the careful Cold War order of the New World will fall apart, meaning by the time the Strawhats even get near the narrower end seas, that the Yonkou still around will be probably at open war with eachother and the Marines. One little pirate ship entering a warzone isn't going to run into every combatant in that warzone. All of whom who are going to be super busy.

you know this reminded me when ppl kept saying that luffy and co can complete their mission in dressrosa without having to confront doflamingo , this could probably work in a real life story but in shounen (specially one piece) the MC has to face every antagonist in the series , not that i like it but things simply doesn't go that way in one piece , when luffy says he'll do something it becomes inevitable

It changes that incredibly, this is also true of Shanks.
Kaidou and Big Mom are at the end of the day just big strong characters.
Blackbeard on the other hand is a dark mirror of our hero whose been built up since book 15.
Shanks is the mentor fatherly figure who provided the inciting everything for the entire plot and has been included in almost every single volume's character page.
It indicates that Oda has something special planned for them, in Blackbeard's case as a villain (Built up more than ANY other villain) he will almost really obviously play a role beyond Raftel. And the most obvious role would be as the very last adversary Luffy fights.
Unfortunately for Shanks, we should all be familiar with what happens to mentor figures in fantasy quest stories.

i mostly agree with this , BB wasn't given the same treatment as the other villains and i already said he is probably the most important and the strongest villain in one piece but i don't see the necessity of being a final villain in order to give him what he deserve

Good point, figuring out how to access a treasure island that has gone unfound for upwards of two decades even though the world's best adventurer warriors have been looking for it…not an impressive feat at all. He has to punch a guy instead.
You do seem to have not at all thought about the nature of Raftel, that it's hidden somehow.

conquering those mysteries is one of many feats , but you also need to conquer your rivals in case you didn't notice "punching a guy" is what luffy's been doing every arc since the story began it's what brings these arcs to conclusions , IMO the fighting aspect is more important feat if not as important

I don't think the Gorusei are true villains. Antagonists yes. But I think near the end they'll be taken out, maybe in a coup.
Akainu going nuts is sure to provide the main force of WG villainly. But he is absolutely not the final villain lol.

hmmm the whole thing about the D holders being the celestial dragons' arch enemies doesn't give you an idea ?
who other than the gorosei could represent them as villains/enemies
i never said Akainu is the final villain , probably sabo will eventually get him !

Explain to me what you think the final chaos involves.

a rehash of the old "probabl" war between the D holders and the the celestial dragons
technically it involves the pirates lead by luffy , revs leaad by dragon and the WG

The battle would not be symbolic because each crew has 10 members; its symbolic because it struggle between freedom and chaos, with Luffy representing freedom and Blackbeard representing chaos.

and i don't disagree

That's the thing; Blackbeard would be the final villain. After the Strawhats and co, and the Blackbeards take care of the World Government, Blackbeard would remain as the only antagonist to take care of. See, you'll get what you want in a three way clash.

so you think luffy will fight the WG while BB is doing nothing until the fight concludes and then we have a tired luffy vs BB ?
what's the revs' rule in this

Do you really think the revolutionaries possess an ancient weapon? Even if they did, wouldn't you think it would be a little unbalanced if Luffy's allies possessed two of the three. I think you're confused about which three factions will partake in the war.

i believe that the WG is actually stronger than what it looks like there's more than what meets the eye
but anyway the point is that your theory is not the only possibility of what could happen with the ancient weapons , even if it's so , that doesn't necessarily mean that it's a 3 way fight

Shadowgreed

we already know of three major players who will probably take part in the final war and could possibly posses the three weapons (WG , pirates , revolutionaries) .. so i agree with hosemisnuba this could be indicative but not necessarily in one definite way

So are the Strawhats revolutionaries or Pirates considering that they will be aiming for the same thing pretty soon?

moud

So are the Strawhats revolutionaries or Pirates considering that they will aiming for the same thing pretty soon?

i'm not sure what anyone could possibly be aiming for by then and i don't know if the SH will even get along with the revs as ppl expect them to !
i'd like it if they didn't go the same path but it all depends on what we find out later on

Monquito

I like how this discussion is going, at least nobody mentioned that ridiculous thing about Luffy having to fight Akainu at the end 'cause Mr admiral level Sanji is gonna defeat Kizaru.

Ussop

Small recap:

-Killed his brother in front of his eyes;
-almost killed him;
-have one big bad scar from him that hurts even when luffy hears his name;
-is top two leaders of the marines, direct enemy of the pirates;

alone managed to kill World's strongest man;

Guess what, he isn't final enemy.

Instead, the final enemy is the guy that:

-defeated ace in a battle, and used him to get warlord rank;
-had some encounters with luffy;
-most likely rivals for the pirate king title;
-Luffy stated he wants to take the yonkous first, not find one piece first, logic.

hosemisnuba

Small recap:

-Killed his brother in front of his eyes;
-almost killed him;
-have one big bad scar from him that hurts even when luffy hears his name;
-is top two leaders of the marines, direct enemy of the pirates;

alone managed to kill World's strongest man;

Guess what, he isn't final enemy.

Instead, the final enemy is the guy that:

-defeated ace in a battle, and used him to get warlord rank;
-had some encounters with luffy;
-most likely rivals for the pirate king title;
-Luffy stated he wants to take the yonkous first, not find one piece first, logic.

Guess what, that guy is going to kill Shanks, the guy who called Luffy to adventure. Luffy won't be able to return the Strawhat and Luffy will hold a massive vendetta against him. Akainu, as I have already pointed, wasn't even planned to be in the story early on. Guess who was, Blackbeard.

Shadowgreed

i'm not sure what anyone could possibly be aiming for by then and i don't know if the SH will even get along with the revs as ppl expect them to !
i'd like it if they didn't go the same path but it all depends on what we find out later on

What do you mean? You know for a fact that the Revos want to take the WG down and you also know that Luffy declared an open war against the WG, so that aim is clear as crystal water. I'd love a small scuffle between Luffy and his father but aside from that I don't think they'll be taking a different path from the obvious one.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Small recap:

-Killed his brother in front of his eyes;
-almost killed him;
-have one big bad scar from him that hurts even when luffy hears his name;
-is top two leaders of the marines, direct enemy of the pirates;

alone managed to kill World's strongest man;
Guess what, he isn't final enemy.

Instead, the final enemy is the guy that:

-defeated ace in a battle, and used him to get warlord rank;
-had some encounters with luffy;
-most likely rivals for the pirate king title;
-Luffy stated he wants to take the yonkous first, not find one piece first, logic.

I know MK will jump on you but what's the 1st bolded area? 2nd bolded: Is that logic belong to you?

Ussop

Guess what, that guy is going to kill Shanks, the guy who called Luffy to adventure. Luffy won't be able to return the Strawhat and Luffy will hold a massive vendetta against him. Akainu, as I have already pointed, wasn't even planned to be in the story early on. Guess who was, Blackbeard.

Guess what, killing Shanks is still speculation, not fact. All we know, Akainu could kill Shanks.

Guess who was introduced early on, Doflamingo, and he will most likely get defeated now, when Luffy just got in the New world.

Shadowgreed

Guess what, killing Shanks is still speculation, not fact. All we know, Akainu could kill Shanks.

Guess who was introduced loooong ago, Doflamingo, and he will get defeated now, when Luffy just got in the New world.

OHHH MY GOD YOU KILLED kENNY.

hosemisnuba

Guess what, killing Shanks is still speculation, not fact. All we know, Akainu could kill Shanks.

Guess who was introduced early on, Doflamingo, and he will get defeated now, when Luffy just got in the New world.

The fact that the Blackbeards and the Red Hair have been set to fight basically proves the Blackbeard will kill Shanks. Akainu killing Shanks makes nno sense story wise. Blackbeard is far more important to the plot than Doflamingo ever will be , so your second point is moot.

moud

What do you mean? You know for a fact that the Revos want to take the WG down and you also know that Luffy declared an open war against the WG, so that aim is clear as crystal water. I'd love a small scuffle between Luffy and his father but aside from that I don't think they'll be taking a different path from the obvious one.

once luffy gets to know about the void century and the history between the D and the celestial dragons i believe he will have a different perspective about the whole thing and eventually this leads to a conflict between them about how they should handle the situation .. like for example Dragon would want to wipe out the entire WG and the celestial dragons but luffy'd want to just get rid of the heads and let the others be

Shadowgreed

once luffy gets to know about the void century and the history between the D and the celestial dragons i believe he will have a different perspective about the whole thing and eventually this leads to a conflict between them about how they should handle the situation .. like for example Dragon would want to wipe out the entire WG and the celestial dragons but luffy'd want to just get rid of the heads and let the others be

I might be the only one on this boat, but I believe that Luffy will not fight the WG because of the Void Century even though that will be the main plot at that point in time but I just don't see Luffy giving a shit about the past, he has never cared about such of things in the first place, he just roles with the situations as they come, that's why I believe that Poseidon will be kidnapped by the WG and used during the last war against her will.

Ussop

The fact that the Blackbeards and the Red Hair have been set to fight basically proves the Blackbeard will kill Shanks. Akainu killing Shanks makes nno sense story wise. Blackbeard is far more important to the plot than Doflamingo ever will be , so your second point is moot.

I don't see how this is a fair duel if I bring arguments and facts and you only bring speculations.

ArmamentHero

I might be the only one on this boat, but I believe that Luffy will not fight the WG because of the Void Century even though that will be the main plot at that point in time but I just don't see Luffy giving a shit about the past, he has never cared about such of things in the first place, he just roles with the situations as they come, that's why I believe that Poseidon will be kidnapped by the WG and used during the last war against her will.

It's ultimately up to Luffy on how he wants to deal with the true history. Once he gains that PK title, the Government is going to assume he knows and probably take action. Though it'd be interesting how "the voice of all things" play into his emotions too.

hosemisnuba

. The inevitability of Blackbeard versus Shanks proves@Ussop:

I don't see how this is a fair duel if I bring arguments and facts and you only bring speculations.

Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean its speculation. It was rather obvious, for one, that Whitebeard was going to die during Marineford. All the signs pointed to it, and you know what, it occurred. This is the same thing with Blackbeard versus Shanks; its been prophecied and its going to happen whether you like it or not. In most tales where there is a noble mentor of the protagonist, the antagonist kills the protagonist mentor, and don't tell me One Piece won't follow the trope, because One Piece has a history of following the tropes. It isn't speculation as well that Blackbeard is more important than Doflamingo; I know for fact that he is more important than Doffy simply because he done all the shit he's pulled.

Monkey King

chinjao was denying every thing that we know for sure luffy will eventually accomplish !!

Uh no he was really just expressing condescension to Luffy. It's the same earlier in the chapter where Crocodile taunts Luffy on not being "Grand Line level" right before he impales him. Did you take that literally as well? That there's an actual technical Grand Line level?

do we even know if there were yonko back then

They're obviously a Pirate Age concept. Oh yeah, let's not forget that about them while we're learning not to be literalists. The Yonkou aren't a technical position, it's just a concept used to identify the top pirates. Not like the Admirals or Shichibukai.

or how did roger get to be the PK ?

Reached the end of Grand Line.

i agree by surpassing roger he probably means doing what roger didn't/couldn't do which relates to the meaning of one piece .. funny how you took only that part of chinjao's speech seriously

I was talking about surpassing Roger being ultimately the most important thing for Luffy to do way back in 2006.
Chinjao? lol

you completely missed the point , luffy confronted every warlord even though "they're not all lined up in a row like video game bosses"

The only ones he directly ran into in the sense you suggest were Crocodile, Moria and Doflamingo. In that they had their arc, Luffy fought them, and ended only one career (though obviously contributed to Moria being fired). Maybe two careers.
Jimbei and Boa were encountered but not finished off. Mainly because the scenario's with them ended up being friendly.
Kuma and Mihawk have been rushed by the screen one or two times, but are still undealt with.

I obviously think we'll have encounters and clashes with all the Yonkou, and maybe even out and out fights with some of their subordinates.
I also think Big Mom and Kaidou will be taken out before Raftel. Though I think Big Mom will be taken out by someone else than the Strawhats/Law.
But Shanks and Blackbeard no.
I also think it's pretty clear the Admirals and Sakazuki won't be finished by that point either.

you know this reminded me when ppl kept saying that luffy and co can complete their mission in dressrosa without having to confront doflamingo ,

People were saying that Doflamingo wasn't going to be out and out defeated like Crocodile. That he might limp on in some form after a defeat.

this could probably work in a real life story but in shounen (specially one piece) the MC has to face every antagonist in the series ,

Face =/= Defeat.

when luffy says he'll do something it becomes inevitable

Such as saving Ace?

i mostly agree with this , BB wasn't given the same treatment as the other villains and i already said he is probably the most important and the strongest villain in one piece but i don't see the necessity of being a final villain in order to give him what he deserve

I don't really even know what to say here. You think he's the most important villain…but not the final foe? That doesn't make sense to me at all.
I think what's going on here is you're still having a tough time imagining how the "WG/Ancient Kingdom" storyline ties into Blackbeard. Well let's not forget he is the only evil D seen so far in the series. Think on that.

conquering those mysteries is one of many feats , but you also need to conquer your rivals in case you didn't notice "punching a guy" is what luffy's been doing every arc since the story began it's what brings these arcs to conclusions , IMO the fighting aspect is more important feat if not as important

Getting to the treasure IS conquering his rivals. Aside from Blackbeard's idea of Pirate King being something a bit different.

hmmm the whole thing about the D holders being the celestial dragons' arch enemies doesn't give you an idea ?
who other than the gorosei could represent them as villains/enemies

a rehash of the old "probabl" war between the D holders and the the celestial dragons
technically it involves the pirates lead by luffy , revs leaad by dragon and the WG

Because what you and everyone keep choosing to ignore is that Rayleigh's description of what they found on Raftel wasn't black and white.
There are clearly aspects of the hidden history that are dangerous and dark, and not just happy and good.
Let's look at it like this, especially given that we're all using the term "freedom" to describe what they uncovered.
Throughout almost every part of the world past or present depending, we've mostly lived under authoritarian leaders. Kings, dictators, queens, sultans, emperors or whatever.
Some of us still do, most of us with widespread internet access and good or native english do not.
The argument has always been "I THE KING AM NEEDED, YOU RABBLE CANNOT HANDLE YOURSELVES, FREEDOM IS DANGEROUS".
In the case of OP that's the WG.
Is freedom good? Of course. Luffy embodies the good side of that.
But can it actually be dangerous? Can the removal of the king also open the way to dark and dangerous forces? Don't many successful revolutions also lead to dangerous people gaining power?
That's Blackbeard.

The French overthrew their kings (the first time) and soon enough there were horrible bloodthirsty men like Robespierre slicing off hundreds of heads. And after him came Napoleon to rule France as a military emperor.
Syria is caught between a rock and hard place, with the awful Akainu like Assad and the awful Blackbeard like ISIS. Their revolution is a tragedy that is not working out.

Overturning the old order isn't the end of the battle. It's the start of a new one. The fight for who gets to control the new dawn. And even more dangerous people might win that fight.

Ultimately I see the Gorusei as villains yes, but they have good intentions or at least they think so. They're clearly afraid of some of what they sealed away, namely the secret weapons. They are a conservative neutral villain.
The true FINAL villain must be someone who represents negative freedom and change. That role can only be filled by Blackbeard.

so you think luffy will fight the WG while BB is doing nothing until the fight concludes and then we have a tired luffy vs BB ?

I believe there will be a dizzying level of fronts, and that Luffy might not be the main force against the govenrment given that we have Sabo and the revolutionaries, as well as the good Marines whose clash with the bad Marines has been broadcast since virtually the first volume as a long time coming.
I believe that Blackbeard will either be part of what is destroying the government, or will be building his strength using things he gathered from Raftel to rise up as the government crumbles.

i believe that the WG is actually stronger than what it looks like there's more than what meets the eye

I agree in that I think the Gorusei are all warriors themselves. And not just desk jockeys.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Small recap:

-Killed his brother in front of his eyes;
-almost killed him;
-have one big bad scar from him that hurts even when luffy hears his name;
-is top two leaders of the marines, direct enemy of the pirates;

alone managed to kill World's strongest man;

Guess what, he isn't final enemy.

Instead, the final enemy is the guy that:

-defeated ace in a battle, and used him to get warlord rank;
-had some encounters with luffy;
-most likely rivals for the pirate king title;
-Luffy stated he wants to take the yonkous first, not find one piece first, logic.

Let's recap:

Akainu:
-big dumb dog owned by different characters to do their dirty work

Blackbeard:
-symbolically linked to Luffy, tied to ancient D people, built up since Vol.16, extremely One Piece in essence, symbolically relevant to last conflict

Also what fucking manga did you read where Akainu killed Whitebeard, let alone by himself.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

I don't see how this is a fair duel if I bring arguments and facts and you only bring speculations.

You don't even remember how the manga goes lol.
You literally mentioned things that didn't happened.

And you've forgotten how Shanks clearly holds some deep vendetta with Blackbeard, including his own scar that aches when he thinks about Blackbeard. And personally seems to see him as way more dangerous than other characters and bad internet posters do.
It's in his conversation with Whitebeard in the manga called "One Piece". You should read it sometimes.

ArmamentHero

Oh Monkey King, I love it when you have long posts, lol.

choperman

so the Yonko, are essentially pokemon gym leaders in moud's theory…. does Luffy get to keep cool little badges when he beats them??

Shadowgreed

@ArmamentHero:

It's ultimately up to Luffy on how he wants to deal with the true history. Once he gains that PK title, the Government is going to assume he knows and probably take action. Though it'd be interesting how "the voice of all things" play into his emotions too.

It is, but like I said Luffy has never cared about such things also by the time Luffy reaches raftle the OP world should be in chaos from top to bottom and the voice will definitely play a huge in the future

Ussop

. The inevitability of Blackbeard versus Shanks proves Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean its speculation It was rather obvious, for one, that Whitebeard was going to die during Marineford. All the signs pointed to it, and you know what, it occurred. This is the same thing with Blackbeard versus Shanks; its been prophecied and its going to happen whether you like it or not. In most tales where there is a noble mentor of the protagonist, the antagonist kills the protagonist mentor, and don't tell me One Piece won't follow the trope, because One Piece has a history of following the tropes. It isn't speculation as well that Blackbeard is more important than Doflamingo; I know for fact that he is more important than Doffy simply because he done all the shit he's pulled.

The example with Dolfamingo was to point out that introduced early doesn't say anything. Many villains in one piece don't just show up in one arc and that's it.

Point is, Akainu has a list of facts while BB has yet to do anything major to Luffy. And we have yet to see if Akainu's list is over.

Monkey king, please, tell me how WB would live much with half a head and a huge hole in the chest, that it's not just for fashion, it also did some serious internal damage to WB.

hosemisnuba

The example with Dolfamingo was to point out that introduced early doesn't say anything. Many villains in one piece don't just show up in one arc and that's it.

Point is, Akainu has a list of facts while BB has yet to do anything major to Luffy. And we have yet to see if Akainu's list is over.

Meh, I'll leave this to Monkey King.

ArmamentHero

It is, but like I said Luffy has never cared about such things also by the time Luffy reaches raftle the OP world should be in chaos from top to bottom and the voice will definitely play a huge in the future

He's always been a reactive type of character, only when he has the right motivation is when he takes action. I'd assume, once the SH find out everything, the WG will take action against everyone who's friends with them. Of course, that's if they aren't busy with the revolutionaries.

Shadowgreed

@ArmamentHero:

He's always been a reactive type of character, only when he has the right motivation is when he takes action. I'd assume, once the SH find out everything, the WG will take action against everyone who's friends with them. Of course, that's if they aren't busy with the revolutionaries.

Yeah, I've been think for a while that I would like the WG to go back to East Blue and try to destroy Luffy's hometown while Garp is opposing them directly but that's just wishful thinking.

ArmamentHero

Yeah, I've been think for a while that I would like the WG to go back to East Blue and try to destroy Luffy's hometown while Garp is opposing them directly but that's just wishful thinking.

Well, this is also true, as we try to theorize what may or may not happen, it's all just wishful thinking.:blink: I keep thinking of a certain Nefertari family, if you know what I mean..

Monkey King