now that his chivalry has become a problem don't you think it should be addressed with a flashback? i said a while back that the lack of flashbacks he gets in comparison to Zoro just aren't right, but now i feel like they would really help with the story, we deserve to find out why he's so chivalrous and how he was trained exactly.
Does Sanji deserve another flashback? (spoiler from 403)
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No, not really. Double flashbacks for one character, means all others get a second one. And some of the second flashbacks would suck, so it's not really necessary.
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yeah I think he deserves one maybe in the next few chapters while he's on the ground. It would be 2-3 pages long, something that tells why he won't hit women because I don't think his simple love of them would take him to the extreme he's been taken to.
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I don't think so. In the West we might see it as debilitating. But in Japan, to his legion (literally, do not fucking underestimate Sanji fandom) of female fans, I can imagine few other lines putting them into such a swoon.
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@omae:
I don't think so. In the West we might see it as debilitating. But in Japan, to his legion (literally, do not –----- underestimate Sanji fandom) of female fans, I can imagine few other lines putting them into such a swoon.
Exactly. Sanji's chivalry makes his character. Without it, he would just be another schmuck…that can kick...really hard.
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Hey, he is also a very good chef though. Eh, what kind of flash back can he have, i mean there isn't much to his character though.
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Hey, he is also a very good chef though. Eh, what kind of flash back can he have, i mean there isn't much to his character though.
Go sit in a corner, matie.
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Hey, he is also a very good chef though. Eh, what kind of flash back can he have, i mean there isn't much to his character though.
Careful, you'll be accused of flaming ;o)
That said; Sanji >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *
He has an amazing character, though how he came to be the man he is hasn't been answered in the same way Robin, Zoro's, Nami's, Chopper's and Luffy's has, he is without a doubt, the most imcomplete character, legendary speed, agility and technique but ye the psyche is all a mystery. Thus far we're to beleive he learn'd his technique watching Zeff though i beleive he was actually Zeff's personal student. We know that he doesn't just adore women, he was taught to maintain the ideals he upholds, he's without a doubt a model student but so little is known about him it's unreal. i just want the questions answered personally.
Great tactical brain, good leader, exceptional subordinate and a Master Chef that makes Gordon Ramsey look like a burger boy.
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He has an amazing character, though how he came to be the man he is hasn't been answered in the same way Robin, Zoro's, Nami's, Chopper's and Luffy's has, he is without a doubt, the most imcomplete character, legendary speed, agility and technique but ye the psyche is all a mystery. Thus far we're to beleive he learn'd his technique watching Zeff though i beleive he was actually Zeff's personal student. We know that he doesn't just adore women, he was taught to maintain the ideals he upholds, he's without a doubt a model student but so little is known about him it's unreal. i just want the questions answered personally.
Great tactical brain, good leader, exceptional subordinate and a Master Chef that makes Gordon Ramsey look like a burger boy.
I couldn't agree with this more… As for me, I would like to see a small flashback explaining why he can't hit woman, somwhat along the lines of Zoro's flashback while fighting Mr. 1.....
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Yeah… a Sanji flashback could have a point. I never thought about his way of chivalry that much, untill now, of course. At the same time all of the SH should deserve yet another flashback. Long, or short, to establish them better.
It's crystal clear what turns on Sabre :laugh:. Although I didn't knew you liked flashbacks.
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Zoro had really short flashback when fighting against Mr. 1 right? Maybe Sanji has his own now. Something where Zeff says something like "Listen, Sanji, it is rude to kick ladies, but if you really have to do it [indert some tactics here].." etc etc.
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Zoro had really short flashback when fighting against Mr. 1 right? Maybe Sanji has his own now. Something where Zeff says something like "Listen, Sanji, it is rude to kick ladies, but if you really have to do it [indert some tactics here].." etc etc.
That would be just bad. It would reek of a reused plot device. What we need is an asshole father who is abusive toward Sanji's kind mother. Sanji pledges to be never the same and the only thing that made the mother happy was when Sanji tried to cook something for her. Unfortunately Sanji inherited his father horny nature. clichÃ
'D
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Flashback would be nice and all, but the latest chapter kinda sealed Nami vs Calipha.
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I don't think he needs a flashback as there's no need to explain every trait. He is what he is.
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I'd welcome it, but not as much to adress his "I was brought up that way" quote, as to his life in North Blue. I've always thought Oda'd elaborate on that, and maybe he could tie 'em together, as well as explain how he wound up on the Orbit.
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Oh no, not that dull plothole argument again. Listen we readers aren´t dull baby´s that require everything to be chewed out in order that it makes sense to us. Sanji is a chef, Zef is a chef. Both are tremendously good, both use(d) their feet for their fighting style. Zef raised Sanji for over a decade. It is completely enough indication for us to assume that Sanji got his fighting style from Zef.
We don´t need it chewed out, room for personal opinion and interpretions by the readers is a good thing. Overelaborating stuff is insulting the readers intelligence.
We know what needs to be known about Sanji in order to understand his character in the story. If he says that that´s how he learned it, then it is explenation enough. I don´t need flashback that will overelaborate what the previous statement stands for. We are not that dull.
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Zoro had really short flashback when fighting against Mr. 1 right? Maybe Sanji has his own now. Something where Zeff says something like "Listen, Sanji, it is rude to kick ladies, but if you really have to do it [indert some tactics here].." etc etc.
I'd find it amusing if it was Zeff who taught him that since he didn't hesitate to kick wee Sanji in his flashback. Kicking children is fine but kicking women is bad. I'm sure there would be some logic there somewhere. :biggrin:
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I don't think he needs a reason to refuse fighting a woman. Doesn't the chapter title say it all?
Yeah, Sanji probably could mop the floor with her. That's why he won't. It's a very powerful message Oda is sending and it would be a shame for it to be wasted as being simply a weakness. In fact, this was written 3 years ago:
Sanji’s greatest weakness is also his greatest strength, his mad desire and respect for women. It brings out the best, the worst, the strongest and the weakest in him, particularly his uncontrollable lust for Nami. It almost ends up being the death of him in a certain battle. He has no control over his infatuation with her and it is probably physically impossible for him to ever harm her or let anyone attempt to do so while he is still able to stand. Which is why this is also his strength, if someone involves a woman in a conflict that cannot defend herself, Sanji will pull out the big guns. To a lesser extent he also lusts after the other female crew member, but his obsession with her is not nearly as sick.
I couldn't have said it better myself. Wait….
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@omae:
I don't think he needs a reason to refuse fighting a woman. Doesn't the chapter title say it all?
Yeah, Sanji probably could mop the floor with her. That's why he won't. It's a very powerful message Oda is sending and it would be a shame for it to be wasted as being simply a weakness. In fact, this was written 3 years ago:
I couldn't have said it better myself. Wait….
Who wrote that? Oda? Uh, if you wrote it 3 years ago, how did you get that message?
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Yeah, another flashback for Sanji, at least about this, would be superfluous. We don't need to know why he can't hit a woman, it's just part of who he is. He grew up on a ship with a bunch of smelly, ugly ex-pirates and the only women he likely saw were dressed up for a night at a fancy restaurant. Is it any wonder why he is the way he is? Frankly I like that about him, he just is.
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@omae:
I don't think he needs a reason to refuse fighting a woman. Doesn't the chapter title say it all?
Yeah, Sanji probably could mop the floor with her. That's why he won't. It's a very powerful message Oda is sending and it would be a shame for it to be wasted as being simply a weakness. In fact, this was written 3 years ago:
I couldn't have said it better myself. Wait….
Who wrote that? Oda? Uh, if you wrote it 3 years ago, how did you get that message?
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@omae:
I don't think he needs a reason to refuse fighting a woman. Doesn't the chapter title say it all?
Yeah, Sanji probably could mop the floor with her. That's why he won't. It's a very powerful message Oda is sending and it would be a shame for it to be wasted as being simply a weakness. In fact, this was written 3 years ago:
I couldn't have said it better myself. Wait….
Who wrote that? Oda? Uh, if you wrote it 3 years ago, how did you get that message?
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No. Strawhat pirates get one flashback and one flashback only; the only exception is Luffy. The flashbacks illustrate the fundamental forming of how the characters behave today; since Zeff was a pirate, it's unlikely he would have taught Sanji respect for women. That's likely a characteristic only Sanji can boast of posessing.
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I don't think that a full flashback is needed. However, If Sanji is to stand up and fight Calipha still, I would like to see some images of the past that are important to him. Something like Zoro remembering his master in the Mr. 1 fight, or the memories Usopp had of his friends when he stood up and fought Choo in the Arlong arc.
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A. Why does ONE character getting a second flashback mean they all do?
B. Just because Sanji primarily met women as customers should not alone define it. He had no trouble deflating MALE customers (Fullbody), and there are likely enough femake asshole potential customers on the seas (Alvida, Pre-Arlong Nami, and I bet Bellemere or people like her would have been real ball-busters) to break his chivalry. -
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(This new server is really weird… I posted a message a while ago and it appears when I hit the button to post a new message... But it does not appear when I look at the thread itself Weird! So, I am posting it again. Sorry if out of sudden both messages appear to you!)
I don't think that a full flashback is needed. However, If Sanji is to stand up and fight Calipha still, I would like to see some images of the past that are important to him. Something like Zoro remembering his master in the Mr. 1 fight, or the memories Usopp had of his friends when he stood up and fought Choo in the Arlong arc.
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BTW i thought it was confirmed that Sanji learnt his kicking style from Zef. Didnt he say that in the Baratie arc?
Even if it isn't, it is bloody obvious -
Well, Sanji MAY have learned to fight by emulating Zeff instead of training under him….
But, yeah, tomeito tomato.
There's no way he learned to fight from anybody OTHER than Zeff.
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That's like saying a need a flashback to explain why Zoro is sleepy.
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No. Strawhat pirates get one flashback and one flashback only; the only exception is Luffy…
Well technically Luffy didn´t have a flashback. The entire timing in the first chapter was in the present. It´s only that within the chapter itself 10 years passed by and got skipped.
If a Luffy flashback comes, it will still be his first one. However I actually count more on an Ace flashback that will include Luffy and his Gramps.
@Cap'n:
That's like saying a need a flashback to explain why Zoro is sleepy.
That is probably the most brilliant statement on that topic.
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Either they can juss throw it off as he is like that because he was never around women. Since it seems the restruant didn't have females except customers.
So Sanji never got to be with them and react normally torwards them, thus holding them on some pedastal.
Or he will get a flashback as to why he is how he is.
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Sanji’s greatest weakness is also his greatest strength, his mad desire and respect for women. It brings out the best, the worst, the strongest and the weakest in him, particularly his uncontrollable lust for Nami. It almost ends up being the death of him in a certain battle. He has no control over his infatuation with her and it is probably physically impossible for him to ever harm her or let anyone attempt to do so while he is still able to stand. Which is why this is also his strength, if someone involves a woman in a conflict that cannot defend herself, Sanji will pull out the big guns. To a lesser extent he also lusts after the other female crew member, but his obsession with her is not nearly as sick.
Who wrote that? Oda? Uh, if you wrote it 3 years ago, how did you get that message?
I wrote it brother. Three years ago when I made the Straw Hat Luffy Pirate Crew profile.
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@Cap'n:
That's like saying a need a flashback to explain why Zoro is sleepy.
come on let's not be silly now. if zoro can have flashbacks outta no where just to help him win fights then sanji can get one to explain what made zeff teach him whatever the technique is and/or why the woman thing came about.
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sanji always hated when zeff called him "boy"….so that´s why he try to "become and man"....so he thought a real man should be strong (so he trained to grow stronger), smoke and never hurt a lady...that is his model, his way of acting
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I agree with the others who say a flashback isn't really necessary, but I wouldn't mind seeing one either, since I'm left wondering why Sanji is so chivalrous. There has to be a deeper meaning behind it. Just being taught to be chivalrous I don't think would be enough for Sanji to risk his life over chivalry.
I think, since Sanji worked in the Baratie nearly all his life, he must have met and served all sorts of pirates. And since most pirates tend to be rather seedy fellows, he must have been exposed to some of the more darker side of human nature - including the sort of nature that would cause someone to abuse and hit women. Now being exposed to such behavior at such a young age might have warped Sanji for life, possibly causing him to become a future woman abuser himself.
But if he had a positive role model, someone completely opposite to those who abuse women (someone like Zeff), who taught him the ways of chivalry, I could see how his beliefs would have been so firmly etched into his psyche. He would have witnessed the evils of female abuse first hand, but he also would have had a positive role model/mentor teaching him that he should never act in such ungentlemanly ways.
Now is it likely Zeff (or someone else) would have taught Sanji chivalry? Sanji grew up and worked all his life on the Baratie. To better serve the customers as a waiter it's likely that Sanji would have been taught the code and conduct of a gentleman. So it's not surprising that someone would have taught him chivalry.
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sanji always hated when zeff called him "boy"….so that´s why he try to "become and man"....so he thought a real man should be strong (so he trained to grow stronger), smoke and never hurt a lady...that is his model, his way of acting
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Well technically Luffy didn´t have a flashback. The entire timing in the first chapter was in the present. It´s only that within the chapter itself 10 years passed by and got skipped.
If a Luffy flashback comes, it will still be his first one. However I actually count more on an Ace flashback that will include Luffy and his Gramps.
That's what I was hinting at.
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In a nut-shell: As long as we see his origins in the flashback- Yes.
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I agree with the "not necessary but would be interesting to have one" opinion on Sanji's flashback.
But I can't help but think that Oda has SOMETHING going on in that brain of his. Sanji said all the way back in the Jaya Arc that he was born and raised in North Blue. And he's only spent almost half (9 years) of his life on the Baratie. What happned in the first ten? Now he brings up that he was specifically raised to be chivalrous, so I think we can throw away the "likes women cause he spent all his time surrounded by guys" theory.
And man is that strong chivalry. Look at that panel when he says it. I think that scary expression goes right up there with the "I was just looking for a light for my cigarette" panel. Phew.
I always thought in the back of my head that Sanji may have had a beautiful mother, now I'm kinda even more convinced. That sort of female worship doesn't come from having a bad mother. (Sanji's also the most feminine looking of the SH guys, maybe he takes after her physically as well?)
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Does he deserve a flashback? Sure,why not. He's an important character? Will he get one? Not until Oda needs it. Not all characters get 1 flashback, Zoro had a second one when he fought Mr.1, a short one. Sanji might have that too when the time comes, but it doesn't feel likely.