I like Queen too but they only ever play like 3 of their songs on the radio. They're one of my favorite classic rock bands, not really one of my overall top bands though.
Music Tiers
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queen is ok but it is pretty common for queen fans to have that idiotic sentiment that "new music is dead!!"
jokes on them because music of this century is 10000x better than most shit to come from the 1900s
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Haha, Korn and goat blood. I haven't listened to too much stuff this year, and I liked all of it so I couldn't really put them into tiers.
Edit: Although maybe I'll do something for bands I've recently discovered
God tier: Murder by Death, mewithoutYou, St Vincent, Fine Folk, Thinking Plague, Chryst
Top tier: Bill Gould, Elephant Revival, Dragged into Sunlight, Fear Before the March of Flames, Daughters, Bodychoke, Car Bomb
Mid Tier: Fockstrot, Sol Invictus, Dark Dark Dark, Gogol Bordello
Low Tier: Giles CoreyNeed more listens tier: Discordance Axis, Ebonylake, Listener, Stagnant Waters, Brainbombs
FBTMOF (first album), Daughters (first album), Gogol Bordello, and mwY.
thumbs up
btw, does anyone here subscribe to theneedledrop (the internet's busiest music nerd) on youtube? It seems like he posts a review almost everyday.. at least like 4-5 a week of indie/hip-hop/metal/hardcore and other eclectic and otherwise (usually) "underground" music (sometimes he reviews mainstream artists, but mostly GOOD mainstream or at least interesting mainstream music. Like, he'd never let a Radiohead album go by or anything like that). For instance, his #1 album this year was the new Death Grips album. So he reviews some good stuff. Every month I at least discover or am reminded of a handful of artists I find interesting. He gives very descriptive, colorful, and fair/unbiased opinions which is very appreciated.
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I was once in a mosh pit with Anthony Fantano, haha. I occasionally tune into his reviews since he has some interesting insights. I don't always agree with him, but that's what makes him worth listening to sometimes.
Devin Townsend album tiers:
Hevy Devy: Ziltoid the Omniscient, Addicted, City, Synchestra, Ocean Machine
Epic and Loud: Epicloud, The New Black, Terria, Deconstruction, Ki, Alien
Canada's Pride: SYL, Accelerated Evolution, Ghost
Decent by Devy: Heavy as a Really Heavy Thing, Physicist
Okay as a Really Okay Thing: Hummer, Devlab -
anthony seems like a cool guy but he doesn't do enough reviews (yeah, i know it's only him, but still)
i go to reviewers to hear about new stuff and 2/5 of his reviews every week are Animal Collective
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Fool knocked on Tera Melos though! Also the lack of props to Touche Amore!? Whaack.
Nah but I tune in occasionally. He's pretty chill and well spoken.
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btw, does anyone here subscribe to theneedledrop (the internet's busiest music nerd) on youtube? .
Some dude with glasses? I think I seen his face popped up for almost every music album mentioned in this thread when I searched. Hahah! I'm thinking of subscribing just to discover some bands or music in general. I really have no idea what makes "good music", since I sometimes find myself typically enjoying something that others(even the band) would bash.
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What makes good music is what you think is good. The main thing I think is important in discovery at first is diversity to give yourself a good feel for what you like and don't like. I don't mean that you should rule out genres based on what you've heard, but instead that if you find a genre that you don't like, look further until you find something that you do. By then you'll have a much better idea of what you're looking for in music. Then, and only then, will you have earned the right to make snide remarks about how terrible everyone else's tastes are.
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Yeah nobody listens to a bunch of random "essential" albums and loves them all unconditionally, there's usually personal taste reasons for the consumption and enjoyment. The reason there's stuff majorly beloved on a general level is because it's tied to an epoch, was instrumental in development of a style, or that sort of thing. Going over albums or musicians that shaped a field, or defined it, or were just popular players, can help one hone from a broad spectrum to a sharper interest of what they like. Maybe?
Sometimes people just listen to this stuff because of its popularity and availability and leave it at that and that's okay. Having or developing "taste" is more about an understanding of yourself and what you like, but taking the time to understand and diversify what one hears to that extent is kind of time consuming and a lot more hobbyist level. It's a lot like fashion. Dressing fashionably is a personal thing, but some people don't give a fuck and just wear t-shirts with jokes about Planck's Constant on them
! AND THEIR NAME IS WAGOMU!!!!!!!!!
And only people super into it as a hobby delve deeper. Music is probably the entertainment medium most chaotic in this regard, because as much as people try to act like tastemakers (internet music blogs do this HARDCORE and it's insufferable) music is crazy flexible in how one can enjoy it. There aren't like rules. Like sometimes one can really well justify why they like something or why they don't like something and the points can be crazy valid on some wacky level like THIS IS SO UNIVERSAL IN MY UNDERSTANDING, but at the end of the day it's all about what one thinks themselves.
P.S. The day that a music hobbyist can like, go on a blog and hear a random description of an unknown band and form an opinion on the album and feel comfortable about that? With NO outside input? No reviews to crosscheck? That feels good man and I totally wish it on anybody who's into music and wants to further their self-understanding of their taste.
But at the end of the day music fans are all consumers and have to be fed, so we still do rely heavily on reviews or word of mouth and what we choose to download over other things and that's an important part of the culture because hey man, music goes fast and I don't have forever. But that's getting away haha, the important thing is just being able to be okay with your opinions.
BASICALLY BELIEVE IN YOURSELF WHO BELIEVES IN YOU AND DON'T WORRY ABOUT WHAT OTHER PEOPLE HAAAATE
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@The:
Dressing fashionably is a personal thing, but some people don't give a fuck and just wear t-shirts with jokes about Planck's Constant on them
! AND THEIR NAME IS WAGOMU!!!!!!!!!
Hey, you may know where I stand on this, but you don't know where I'm going with it!
But I agree on all counts. That's about where I've learned to stand on music.
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Good post. That's about my stand on it. Over the past month or so, I probably listened to about 40 or so different albums from different time frames and I enjoyed a whole lot of it. Some were suggested, and others were a bit random. Sort of like walking into a music store and listening to an album because of the cover. Originally I stuck with 2 albums, and while I enjoyed them, it was also quite limiting and as a non-fan, I didn't really want to fall into that trap of being a hardcore fan that listens to few things and nothing much else. Because I really had no idea what else is out there or what I was missing out on. And it's not like it's time consuming either(like gaming, movies, shows, ect). Music is really just a constant vibration of sounds that is to me more satisfying than wind or the noise I typically hear in this neighborhood when it's quiet. To have an album playing while studying or drawing just keeps time itself moving, with a sound is cool I guess(if that makes sense).
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Swedish "progg" tiers:
From really high to high tier:
Samla Mammas Manna, Bo Hansson, Philemon Arthur and the Dung.
From just below high to above medium tier:
Älgarnas trädgård, Ola Magnell, Nationalteatern, "Träd, Gräs och Stenar", Hoola Bandoola Band, Ragnarök, Fläsket Brinner.
From medium to lower tier:
Blå tåget, Motvind, Doktor Kosmos, Nynningen.Whaaat? :V Have at thee!
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I don't like Get Rich or Die Trying and I don't think that College Dropout or MBDTF are Kanye's best, but they are legitimate hip hop classics. That classic label is really more about general opinion and impact more than personal opinion and the only one I'd take off is MM.. Food.
50 Cent really really sucks.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I'd only agree with this if it is referring to music produced within the United States.
This is so incredibly wrong I don't even know where to start.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Anyway as for me I dunno. The only possible way I can see doing a tier list is to make it super personal, like I think the Beatles are one of the best to do it sure, but personally they don't usually turn me on in THAT way. That is to say, I simply don't GO to them. Stuff that does is a different thing from "good".
I really strongly agree with Holy's big post about how it's all personal at the end of the day, both what we hate and what we like. Music is such an amorphus thing, it's not like movies and books (normal movies and books anyway) where there's like a structured point as it were. I mean there's structure, but it just...it...I dunno, it's much more of an ink blot experience on average. A structured ink blot, but an ink blot more than some other popular forms of art.I think yeah, people getting into new genres, it's usually kind of like growing up again in a way. You cling to safe feeling common sights you're used to for awhile.. find your legs.. and then learn to walk off and find whatever. Some people never do that, but I really think that that's inarguably what you should do.
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I feel so feckless. :sad: I just staggers around any which way in search of music I like… Haven't learned anything about my tastes really. Well. That's how it goes I suppose.
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Urk, made a mistake in my "Swedish "progg" tiers", I meant to copy-paste "Träd, Gräs och Stenar" instead of "International Harvester". Both are of course pretty much the same group only people are more likely to remember the name "Träd, Gräs och Stenar". And they were meant to go into the in between tier. :(
EDIT: I changed the post and put them in their proper place 'cause it was bugging me to damn much. :P"The classical big names composers, which I don't have that much knowledge about but still" tiers:
Top tier: Ludwig van Beethoven, Sergei Rachmaninoff, Alexander Scriabin, Franz Liszt.
Middle tier: Johann Sebastian Bach, George Frideric Handel, Carl Orff, Gustav Holst.
Low tier: Antonio Vivaldi, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Frédéric Chopin, Richard Wagner, Giuseppe Verdi, Johann Strauss II, Richard Strauss.
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Liszt above Chopin and Vivaldi
arggghhhhhh
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Liszt above Chopin and Vivaldi
arggghhhhhh
Two tiers to. Hohoho. :V
EDIT: Those two suckers didn't make any contributions anyways, so. ;D
ALSO: What the hell is Händel doing on that list, I don't even know what he's done. :S -
Two tiers to. Hohoho. :V
EDIT: Those two suckers didn't make any contributions anyways, so. ;D
ALSO: What the hell is Händel doing on that list, I don't even know what he's done. :SHandel's most famous composition is "The Messiah", you've probably heard it.
Holst above Chopin makes me laugh, especially since I find Holst to be monotonous. :I
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Handel's most famous composition is "The Messiah", you've probably heard it.
Holst above Chopin makes me laugh, especially since I find Holst to be monotonous. :I
I most likely have heard a few Händel compositions, yes… But nothing that springs to mind. :V So let's all forget I put him in there.
Holst, I dunno, I've only heard his "The Planets" which are good. But planets, those sun orbiting spheres that is, are too cool so I put him in mid-tier anyway. :) It's all very logical, see.--- Update From New Post Merge ---
Planet tiers, btw:
Top tier: Neptune, Mars.
Mid tier: Jupiter, Saturn, Venus.
Low tier: Uranus, Mercury, Terra. -
Disney Movie Soundtrack tier:
Awesome Tier: Beauty and the Beast, Mary Poppins, Little Mermaid, HoND
Great Tier: Lion King, Aladdin, Tarzan, Hercules, Snow White
Good Tier: Jungle Book, Mulan, Bedknobs and Broomsticks, Tangled, Princess and the Frog -
@Monkey:
50 Cent really really sucks.
And yet Get Rich or Die Trying sold 8 million copies in the USA and lived up to its hype in more than one way. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but not only did it sell, it influenced and made 50 Cent the hottest rapper alive at the time. And after listening to it with my brother yesterday, it doesn't sound bad at all. Shit's a classic to me. (it's actually one of my brother's two favorite albums of all time.)
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And yet Get Rich or Die Trying sold 8 million copies in the USA
lol are you for real, making this argument.
and lived up to its hype in more than one way.
I was there when 50 was getting big fyi. I remember Wanksta, that it was generic crap, and was baffled as heck when people started giving a shit about the guy who made that.
Hype!
In Da Club is an alright song, amidst a sea of alright songs of roughly equal worth. The album it comes from is bad.
Oh and that song is memorable for the beat. So wow, Dr Dre wins again.It's not everyone's cup of tea, but not only did it sell, it influenced
Nothing.
50 Cent and G Unit were an extremely watered down bland "revival" of Hardcore hip-hop that went nowhere at all.
Compare those losers to the Hardcore stuff of the 90's and it's like comparing Winger to Motorhead.and made 50 Cent the hottest rapper alive at the time.
Stupid shit gets popular all the time. It's the nature of the world.
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@Monkey:
lol are you for real, making this argument.
I could be wrong, but I do think that sales have a pretty big impact on an album being considered a classic. The correlation isn't exact, as there are plenty of albums that aren't classic that sold a ton, but most classic albums did sell a good bit. At the last, I don't think the point is irrelevant.
I was there when 50 was getting big fyi. I remember Wanksta, that it was generic crap, and was baffled as heck when people started giving a shit about the guy who made that.
Hype!
In Da Club is an alright song, amidst a sea of alright songs of roughly equal worth. The album it comes from is bad.
Oh and that song is memorable for the beat. So wow, Dr Dre wins again.50's not a terribly good rapper, but he's nowhere near terrible, and I was also there when it got big. I remember first hearing about him in 7th (maybe 6th grade, it was honestly a little late) grade for the first time and my english teacher making fun of his name for some reason. I actually think In da Club is one of the weaker songs from the album, an obvious single. A lot of the other songs are much better: Many Men, What up Gangsta, Back Down, and ya life's on the line. I like those tracks, if you don't that's fine. I still think you gotta give props to his hooks and choruses though, his voice just works and they're… cool, even all these years later.
And about Dre, I don't think you can knock this album for his beats being so good. That's a part of it. Are you just trying to knock 50 as a rapper? I think it's easy to try and rag on his lyricism, but just about every song is good on the album and 50 was fresh at that point. It's his one album that came off that way, and it always sounds effortless.
Nothing.
50 Cent and G Unit were an extremely watered down bland "revival" of Hardcore hip-hop that went nowhere at all.
Compare those losers to the Hardcore stuff of the 90's and it's like comparing Winger to Motorhead.I can't really argue with this.
Stupid shit gets popular all the time. It's the nature of the world.
Maybe not up to your standards, but it is what it is, and a large portion of people love it. Maybe that's where we differ. I think a loved album is a classic album.
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I could be wrong, but I do think that sales have a pretty big impact on an album being considered a classic.
I don't think I would ever call something classic if I didn't think it was good.
The correlation isn't exact, as there are plenty of albums that aren't classic that sold a ton, but most classic albums did sell a good bit. At the last, I don't think the point is irrelevant.
As I'm not sure what you mean by classic, please just tell the jury that you are not seriously arguing that "popular = good". Because I didn't think people actually made that argument.
50's not a terribly good rapper, but he's nowhere near terrible,
He has a terrible flow, garbage lyrics for the most part…I guess he has stage presence?
Most of the beats on his albums were awful or boring.What is the draw I'm missing here.
The only thing about him I ever really enjoyed was reading his interviews.I actually think In da Club is one of the weaker songs from the album, an obvious single. A lot of the other songs are much better: Many Men, What up Gangsta, Back Down, and ya life's on the line.
Many Men is yawn, What Up Gangsta is blarg. And P.I.M.P. is probably one of the worst rap singles from the 00's that wasn't Crunk/Snap.
I like those tracks, if you don't that's fine. I still think you gotta give props to his hooks and choruses though,
Let's see…In Da Club I already mentioned....Magic Stick was technically a Lil Kim song...I guess I liked the beat on the remix of that one song he did with Mobb Deep...
his voice just works and they're… cool, even all these years later.
Have you ever listened to like…hardcore hip-hop from the 90's? G Unit were so watered down in all their aspects that it's almost ridiculous that people think of them as cool or hard.
And about Dre, I don't think you can knock this album for his beats being so good. That's a part of it.
His beat, I didn't say beats. 04 was waaaay past Dre being relevant and good. Premo made the occasional amazing beat in the 00's, but that doesn't mean he wasn't washed out severely by that point as Dre also was and is.
Are you just trying to knock 50 as a rapper? I think it's easy to try and rag on his lyricism, but just about every song is good on the album and 50 was fresh at that point. It's his one album that came off that way, and it always sounds effortless.
So they're good and fresh and effortless. In some way that you won't specify.
Maybe not up to your standards,
Yes, my standards, also known as "pretty much everything that came out of New York between the years of 93 and 97".
but it is what it is, and a large portion of people love it. Maybe that's where we differ. I think a loved album is a classic album.
Who cares what other people think, that's such a worthless way to approach music or any art for that matter. If you want to defend 50 against me, go hog wild. But nobody cares or wants to hear about what other people than you think about…..thought about him (nobody gives a fuck about 50 Cent anymore and hasn't for like five years at least).
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On the classic argument, I don't think you have to like something for it to be classic. I'll acknowledge Kiss as a classic band and still think their music is worthless and their shtick stolen. The thing that makes them classic is just how influential and iconic they were. 50 Cent is neither. I'm neutral on 50 Cent (haven't cared enough to give him a serious listen), but I have neither seen evidence of his influence nor his continuing popularity. In fact, I kind of forgot he existed until this conversation came up, though I remember him being everywhere however many years ago that was.
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@Monkey:
I don't think I would ever call something classic if I didn't think it was good.
And that's going to be a big point of disagreement between us.
As I'm not sure what you mean by classic, please just tell the jury that you are not seriously arguing that "popular = good". Because I didn't think people actually made that argument.
No, but I think "sustained popularity=classic." I'm not arguing that classic means good though.
He has a terrible flow, garbage lyrics for the most part…I guess he has stage presence?
Most of the beats on his albums were awful or boring.
What is the draw I'm missing here.
The only thing about him I ever really enjoyed was reading his interviews.Haha, I think he actually has terrible stage presence live and in videos. I like his flow (though I see its flaws) the super catchy hooks and the beats.
Many Men is yawn, What Up Gangsta is blarg. And P.I.M.P. is probably one of the worst rap singles from the 00's that wasn't Crunk/Snap.
All those songs go and P.I.M.P is not even close to being that bad(though the music video is cringe-worthy).
Let's see…In Da Club I already mentioned....Magic Stick was technically a Lil Kim song...I guess I liked the beat on the remix of that one song he did with Mobb Deep...
My favorite hook is actually from Many Men, I just think it's really catchy and fun to sing along to.
Have you ever listened to like…hardcore hip-hop from the 90's? G Unit were so watered down in all their aspects that it's almost ridiculous that people think of them as cool or hard.
I don't think G Unit is cool or hard, I think 50's choruses and hooks have a cool vibe to them. They don't really rely on him being that lyrical, they're catchy and he has the perfect voice for them. And how watered down he is in a hardcore sense actually helps the album be a lot more accessible than say NWA. I can admit I don't know much of the non mainstream hardcore from this period though.
His beat, I didn't say beats. 04 was waaaay past Dre being relevant and good. Premo made the occasional amazing beat in the 00's, but that doesn't mean he wasn't washed out severely by that point as Dre also was and is.
I'm not a huge Dre fan but he's never been irrelevant. He was a big producer on the Marshall Mathers LP, the Eminem Show, and Encore during the time when Eminem was considered by many as the best rapper out. This is irrelevant to me though, you don't like the beats, I do.
So they're good and fresh and effortless. In some way that you won't specify.
50 doesn't change up his flow much, it's slow and slurred but it comes out almost as if he's freestyling. His lyrics in a lot of cases are simple, and that's where a lot of the charm is. It doesn't hurt that most of the stuff he's spitting about himself is true.
Yes, my standards, also known as "pretty much everything that came out of New York between the years of 93 and 97".
He doesn't have to live up to that though. I can't say I've listened to the whole catalogue of Hardcore Rappers from 93-97, but I've listened to a lot of them and for the most part Get Rich or Die Trying is a different type of album. It's a lot less serious and more playful and relies a lot more on hooks. What do you mean by calling it watered down?
Who cares what other people think, that's such a worthless way to approach music or any art for that matter. If you want to defend 50 against me, go hog wild. But nobody cares or wants to hear about what other people than you think about…..thought about him (nobody gives a fuck about 50 Cent anymore and hasn't for like five years at least).
I'm not arguing that I love 50 cent or that Get Rich or Die Trying is one of my favorite albums. I'm arguing that 50 is a decent rapper and Get Rich or Die Trying is generally considered a classic by many rap fans. I could hate as a work of art and still have to acknowledge that it's a classic piece. (And no, I don't think this album is as much of a consensus classic as the Mona Lisa, but I think the analogy still works) I know what I like, I already gave my list of my favorite albums of the 2000's and 50 is nowhere to be found, but I also think I have a pretty good grasp on what the hip hop loving community has embraced over the years and Get Rich or Die Trying is one of those albums for a lot of people.
Edit:
I think I can actually advance my position a little better. Sustained popularity is a weird thing to say, since it's not like people are always putting this in or bringing it up constantly like they do for Illmatic. It's a little harder to define classics from the 2000's versus the 90s becausea. People disagree on a lot of them compared to a pretty tight consensus on about 15 albums in the 90s. Whether this is because those albums are head and shoulders above the albums of today (which I disagree with) or because they defined an aesthetic or movement early on is up for debate.
b. because Hip Hop fans became more splintered than ever in the 2000's on what constituted good rap as rap and its fanbase grew along with the coming of the internet.
c. There were fewer breakthroughs in sound than in the 90s.
I think Get Rich etc. is a classic because of the amount of people I've seen claim that: the album is still as fresh today as when it came out, that the album has few if any weak tracks. And also because it's one of two important albums for understanding where the mainstream rap game was at around 2003 and 4, though it would shift quickly. It's an album that you'd have to mention in a course on the history of hip hop 5 years from now.
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And that's going to be a big point of disagreement between us.
That you don't care if something is good or not? lol
No, but I think "sustained popularity=classic." I'm not arguing that classic means good though.
50 Cent is not still popular, and will be even less popular with the passing years.
Haha, I think he actually has terrible stage presence live and in videos. I like his flow (though I see its flaws) the super catchy hooks and the beats.
The beats? lol, come on.
All those songs go and P.I.M.P is not even close to being that bad(though the music video is cringe-worthy).
PIMP is complete trash, seriously.
I don't think G Unit is cool or hard, I think 50's choruses and hooks have a cool vibe to them.
You're making at best an argument for like a decent artist here, not a classic one.
They don't really rely on him being that lyrical, they're catchy and he has the perfect voice for them. And how watered down he is in a hardcore sense actually helps the album be a lot more accessible than say NWA.
What are you, a marketing executive?
I can admit I don't know much of the non mainstream hardcore from this period though.
What period? NWA was from before the era I'm talking about, let alone New York. And most of the examples I'm thinking of off the top of my head are well known acts. Mobb Deep, Wu Tang, Nas, MOP, Boot Camp Clik, Jeru the Damaja etc.
I'm not a huge Dre fan but he's never been irrelevant
The last relevant things Dre did was discovering Eminem and dropping the 2001 album. That was over a decade ago.
I don't care if he still gets press and stuff, so do the Rolling Stones, but they haven't been even remotely relevant since like 1978.He was a big producer on the Marshall Mathers LP, the Eminem Show
He was absolutely NOT a big producer on The Eminem Show, go check the production credits, two forgettable songs and one terrible one (My Dad's Gone Crazy) on an otherwise very good album. Eminem did most of the beats himself. Frankly I've rarely really liked the beats on Eminem albums outside of the singles and some other stuff, Eminem carries Eminem.
and Encore
This is not a thing to bring up to help your argument lol.
uring the time when Eminem was considered by many as the best rapper out. This is irrelevant to me though, you don't like the beats, I do.
I don't just think they're not good, I think they like the perfect example of super goddamn bland beats in the 00's. This is the guy who became basically the vehicle for Scott Storch!
50 doesn't change up his flow much, it's slow and slurred but it comes out almost as if he's freestyling.
50 doesn't sound like he's freestyling at all. Have you ever heard a freestyle?
His lyrics in a lot of cases are simple, and that's where a lot of the charm is. It doesn't hurt that most of the stuff he's spitting about himself is true.
I also hate David Bowie because he's not really from Mars like he claims to be.
He doesn't have to live up to that though. I can't say I've listened to the whole catalogue of Hardcore Rappers from 93-97, but I've listened to a lot of them and for the most part Get Rich or Die Trying is a different type of album. It's a lot less serious and more playful and relies a lot more on hooks. What do you mean by calling it watered down?
You just described a Hardcore hip-hop album as playful and reliant on hooks, and followed this by asking what was watered down?
, , .
But what is even playful about 50 Cent?
At best I'm getting 50 Cent having like everything dialed to 4 on the intensity dial to meet in the middle in an awful purgatory of oatmeal.
But that's just Get Rich or Die Tryin', after that you get The Massacre, which was near pure crap. Which was btw all popular as heck, so I'm wondering why you're only sticking up for GRODTI'm not arguing that I love 50 cent or that Get Rich or Die Trying is one of my favorite albums. I'm arguing that 50 is a decent rapper and Get Rich or Die Trying is generally considered a classic by many rap fans.
A lot of rap fans also spend all day looking for Illuminati signs in Snoop Dogg videos.
I could hate as a work of art and still have to acknowledge that it's a classic piece. (And no, I don't think this album is as much of a consensus classic as the Mona Lisa, but I think the analogy still works)
The appropriate action in that case would be to have the balls to say that something is overrated and does not deserve it's status.
I think I can actually advance my position a little better. Sustained popularity is a weird thing to say, since it's not like people are always putting this in or bringing it up constantly like they do for Illmatic. It's a little harder to define classics from the 2000's versus the 90s because
Do you seriously think people will give a shit about 50 Cent in ten years lol. And christ, never put Illmatic in the same context as GRODT, please for heavens sake don't.
a. People disagree on a lot of them compared to a pretty tight consensus on about 15 albums in the 90s.
There's a ton of stuff left behind and still needing of more talk and discussion in the 90's.
Whether this is because those albums are head and shoulders above the albums of today (which I disagree with) or because they defined an aesthetic or movement early on is up for debate.
What 15 albums are we talking about here?
I think Get Rich etc. is a classic because of the amount of people I've seen claim that: the album is still as fresh today as when it came out, that the album has few if any weak tracks. And also because it's one of two important albums for understanding where the mainstream rap game was at around 2003
Who cares whatsoever what mainstream rap was doing in 2003. Whoo, the crunk/G Unit era, let's try and care about that.
and 4, though it would shift quickly. It's an album that you'd have to mention in a course on the history of hip hop 5 years from now.
Why? It changed nothing, lead to nothing, was essentially recycled lesser backwash of actual hard Hardcore and the sort of piss take of trying to create another Eminem.
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@Monkey:
That you don't care if something is good or not? lol
I think Classic is less subjective than good, and I'm not going to call something trash and not classic because I don't like it. There are tons of things in music that I don't like and don't even appreciate, but if it touches tons of people, I can't deny the impact. What's so hard to get about this?
50 Cent is not still popular, and will be even less popular with the passing years.
And Get Rich or Die Trying will still be a classic. That's actually kind of impressive.
You're making at best an argument for like a decent artist here, not a classic one. [/qoute]
I'm making the argument for an album, I don't quite understand your criticism.
What period? NWA was from before the era I'm talking about, let alone New York. And most of the examples I'm thinking of off the top of my head are well known acts. Mobb Deep, Wu Tang, Nas, MOP, Boot Camp Clik, Jeru the Damaja etc.
You're right about NWA. I haven't heard of Boot Camp Click or MOP, but I know the others well enough. (well, I've listened to Jeru the Damaja but I don't know his stuff that well.)
The last relevant things Dre did was discovering Eminem and dropping the 2001 album. That was over a decade ago.
I don't care if he still gets press and stuff, so do the Rolling Stones, but they haven't been even remotely relevant since like 1978.He was absolutely NOT a big producer on The Eminem Show, go check the production credits, two forgettable songs and one terrible one (My Dad's Gone Crazy) on an otherwise very good album. Eminem did most of the beats himself. Frankly I've rarely really liked the beats on Eminem albums outside of the singles and some other stuff, Eminem carries Eminem.
This is not a thing to bring up to help your argument lol.
I never really got into Eminem, even MMLP, but regardless of the quality of the albums, he was the biggest at the time and Dre was producing. Relevant.
I don't just think they're not good, I think they like the perfect example of super goddamn bland beats in the 00's. This is the guy who became basically the vehicle for Scott Storch!
I like them, they're simple, but they don't have that boring ass Timberland feel to them. I hate super goddamn bland beats in the 2000's as much as the next guy, but I don't think this album really exemplifies that.
50 doesn't sound like he's freestyling at all. Have you ever heard a freestyle?
No
I also hate David Bowie because he's not really from Mars like he claims to be.
You're being silly and not making any point. 50 got a lot of cred and still does because of how real he lived the life he was rapping. It's one thing to talk about a fictional character/land or dream type shit, it's another to be completely lying like Rick Ross. He lost tons of fans when the shit about him working in a jail came out. Keeping it real is a big thing for rap fans.
You just described a Hardcore hip-hop album as playful and reliant on hooks, and followed this by asking what was watered down?
, , .
But what is even playful about 50 Cent?
At best I'm getting 50 Cent having like everything dialed to 4 on the intensity dial to meet in the middle in an awful purgatory of oatmeal.
But that's just Get Rich or Die Tryin', after that you get The Massacre, which was near pure crap. Which was btw all popular as heck, so I'm wondering why you're only sticking up for GRODTThe Massacre was near pure crap, but 50 was noticeably worse on it and it didn't have the hype or freshness of Get Rich or Die Trying. We weren't getting 50 for the first time in an LP. (clearly) And really, I think you're right about the intensity. But I don't see GRODT as much of a hardcore album, it's a 2000's thug brag album, a genre I just invented.(I love Check the Rhime by the way)
A lot of rap fans also spend all day looking for Illuminati signs in Snoop Dogg videos.
Which is relevant to their taste in Hip Hop and elevation of an album to classic status in what way? (though I hate that shit)
The appropriate action in that case would be to have the balls to say that something is overrated and does not deserve it's status.
I'm of the opinion that it's not really up to me to decide whether an album is classic or not. I have my favorites, I'll worry about them.
Do you seriously think people will give a shit about 50 Cent in ten years lol. And christ, never put Illmatic in the same context as GRODT, please for heavens sake don't.
Shut up haha. Of course I have to use Illmatic since it's the hip hop album synonymous with Classic. It's the one no one has to really talk about. And I don't think people will care about 50 Cent, but I think they'll still put this album in regardless of how they feel about them.
There's a ton of stuff left behind and still needing of more talk and discussion in the 90's.
There are a lot of quality albums that probably aren't seen as classic or masterpieces by a lot of people. A lot of it is because people didn't know it or don't because they're too young, but I'm thinking of some of the more recognizable albums.
What 15 albums are we talking about here?
I pulled 15 out of my ass, but I'll give it a go:
Illmatic, Enter the Wu Tang, Reasonable Doubt, All Eyez on Me, Ready to Die, Doggystyle, The Chronic, 3 feet high and rising, Liquid Swords, The Low End Theory, Aquemini, Common's Resurrection, Only Built 4 Cuban Linx, Black Star. I know I'm missing quite a few. (I'm not counting 1990 by the way)Who cares whatsoever what mainstream rap was doing in 2003. Whoo, the crunk/G Unit era, let's try and care about that.
Clearly I'm interested in it and tons of other people who still crank it.
Why? It changed nothing, lead to nothing, was essentially recycled lesser backwash of actual hard Hardcore and the sort of piss take of trying to create another Eminem.
You didn't like it, but being the biggest album from the biggest rapper for two or three years is reason enough for inclusion in a history course.
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I think Classic is less subjective than good, and I'm not going to call something trash and not classic because I don't like it. There are tons of things in music that I don't like and don't even appreciate, but if it touches tons of people, I can't deny the impact. What's so hard to get about this?
50 Cent touches people now? lol
You really can't compare stuff that makes a lot of people moved or whatever, and stuff that damn well isn't.And Get Rich or Die Trying will still be a classic. That's actually kind of impressive.
Do you really believe that? I'm amazed.
You're right about NWA. I haven't heard of Boot Camp Click
They aren't an act, it's a bunch of acts. Smiff n Wessun, Heltah Skeltah, Black Moon etc.
or MOP,
You know maybe your issue is you don't even have much to compare 50 to.
I never really got into Eminem, even MMLP, but regardless of the quality of the albums, he was the biggest at the time and Dre was producing. Relevant.
At the time that was over a decade ago, my point is made.
No
Welp!
You're being silly and not making any point. 50 got a lot of cred and still does because of how real he lived the life he was rapping.
If you actually factor in how real the source material is for something like music that's sad. It's performance art, the life story of the artist is only as relevant as can be heard in the music. 50's raps don't sound like some kind of insightful real mind of the game/criminal stuff, they're as generic and dumb as gets.
I mean come on, "My Buddy"? Oh, and when was he ever a pimp.
If Pablo Escobar had released a outlaw country album it wouldn't make it good lol.It's one thing to talk about a fictional character/land or dream type shit, it's another to be completely lying like Rick Ross.
How does this relate to my point?
Keeping it real is a big thing for rap fans.
Which is why Steady B and X Raided are even more famous than 50 Cent right?
I pulled 15 out of my ass, but I'll give it a go:
Illmatic, Enter the Wu Tang, Reasonable Doubt, All Eyez on Me, Ready to Die, Doggystyle, The Chronic, 3 feet high and rising, Liquid Swords, The Low End Theory, Aquemini, Common's Resurrection, Only Built 4 Cuban Linx, Black Star. I know I'm missing quite a few. (I'm not counting 1990 by the way)All good I admit.
You didn't like it, but being the biggest album from the biggest rapper for two or three years is reason enough for inclusion in a history course.
Take it from me, because I know this, history forgets things that leave no mark.
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@Monkey:
50 Cent touches people now? lol
You really can't compare stuff that makes a lot of people moved or whatever, and stuff that damn well isn't.Touch was not the best word. From my experience, hip hop classics leave you with a different kind of emotional experience than "touching" albums for the most part. I think he has crafted an album that people will fondly remember. Is that better?
Do you really believe that? I'm amazed.
I do
They aren't an act, it's a bunch of acts. Smiff n Wessun, Heltah Skeltah, Black Moon etc.
You know maybe your issue is you don't even have much to compare 50 to.
By that do you mean compare his quality? You're probably right.
At the time that was over a decade ago, my point is made.
I was trying to argue for his relevance during Get Rich or Die Trying's release.
If you actually factor in how real the source material is for something like music that's sad. It's performance art, the life story of the artist is only as relevant as can be heard in the music. 50's raps don't sound like some kind of insightful real mind of the game/criminal stuff, they're as generic and dumb as gets.
I mean come on, "My Buddy"? Oh, and when was he ever a pimp.
If Pablo Escobar had released a outlaw country album it wouldn't make it good lol.How does this relate to my point?
Hip Hop fans and artists are all about being real; you have to have your street cred or whatever type of cred you're rapping about. (I hate to keep generalizing, but I think this is a characteristic that is vital to a large portion of hip hop culture, especially fans of someone like 50 cent. That 9 bullets point was pounded into the public's mind about 50. I mentioned Rick Ross as an example of someone who suffered backlash in the hip hop community for not being real, regardless of how good his music was. People threatened his life when it got out that he was a prison guard: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/gang-threatens-rick-ross-678314 And he had to cancel his tour. http://www.ebony.com/entertainment-culture/rick-ross-cancels-tour-gang-threats-allegedly-to-blame-304
This is pure speculation, but I think a lot of it comes down to a big part of the hip hop community being composed of gang members and folk in general who grow up in a culture of repping your set and keeping it real. 50 fulfilled that and his first album was a lot more personable(?) for it.
Which is why Steady B and X Raided are even more famous than 50 Cent right?
It helps but it's not an immediate gateway to the type of fame 50 had. Countless different things have to come together for that story to unravel.
Take it from me, because I know this, history forgets things that leave no mark.
But history has the potential to be a lot less forgetful nowadays, barring a disaster or collapse. What has been completely forgotten since the internet era really took off?