Why are people gunning down on Kingloser now? Did I read the posts wrong or something? He has a point that morally, people who wait for chapters to leak on edge (Japan has a lot of warehouse workers who photo the chapters and upload; two were arressted last year if I remember rightly) can't really take the moral highground on people downloading anime. I think that was all he was trying to say?
They both takes something not their own; obtained through illicit means.
You obviously have no idea what sense of entitlement is. I don't feel I am owed anything from Funi, Toei, Viz, or Shueisha in fact I know stealing is wrong, it does not stop me from reading scanilations. I am not the one trying to create a moral difference between stealing manga and stealing anime, I just point out they are both wrong and people should get off their preachy high horses.
That so adorable, I get the full on recessive special needs poster trying to hurt my feelings. Would you like some chocolate or a balloon?
I want a balloon! :sad:
Why are people gunning down on Kingloser now? Did I read the posts wrong or something? He has a point that morally, people who wait for chapters to leak on edge (IIRC Japan has a lot of warehouse workers who photo the chapters) can't really take the moral highground on people downloading anime. I think that was all he was trying to say?
They both takes something not their own; obtained through illicit means.
Thats not the point. We're not saying that it's our right to have these scanlations. We're not saying that we're entitled to them. We understand that they're illegal. Nobody's saying that it isn't.
You obviously have no idea what sense of entitlement is. I don't feel I am owed anything from Funi, Toei, Viz, or Shueisha in fact I know stealing is wrong, it does not stop me from reading scanilations. I am not the one trying to create a moral difference between stealing manga and stealing anime, I just point out they are both wrong and people should get off their preachy high horses.
I think you're entirely missing the point. People will take advantage of something free even if it's illegal, and that's wrong.
What the point is it is WORSE to fight your corner for illegality than actually committing the act alone. There is a lesser of two evils whether you like to see it or not.
However, downloading and refusing to purchase the releases is a step up on the evil-scale, so downloading without reason is pretty off. I actually paid a subscription for downloads, so at the very least, I can take the high-ground over people who got theirs for free and complained.
Well then what was the fuss over Kingloser's post when he was quite simply stating to the people who enthusiastically await leaked chapters each week and yet claim the highground on those who illegally download that they're being a bit hypocritical on that front?
Well then what was the fuss over Kingloser's post when he was quite simply stating to the people who enthusiastically await leaked chapters each week and yet claim the highground on those who illegally download download?
Because he's basically been repeating the same thing over and over again no matter how many times people say exactly what I did in my post.
Damn, I thought this forum was bad…I made the mistake of reading the replies on the Yibis forum.
To those complaining about FUNimation not providing international simulcasts, read this article by Lance (FUNi Marketing Director) concerning international releases of simulcasts:
http://blog.funimation.com/2011/01/anime-simulcasts-territory-rights-and-the-future/
Here's an excerpt:
Here is a brief education on international licensing: For each new series, there is a committee formed from all the companies funding the new series. One of the members of the committee is awarded international licensing responsibility. They sell the series to different companies across the world. This list includes companies like Manga Entertainment in the UK, Madman Entertainment in Australia, FUNimation in the United States and Canada, Kana Home Video in France, Panini Video in Italy and many other distributors in many other countries.
Each of these distributors get awarded rights exclusive to their negotiated territories. That’s why DVD and Blu-ray discs have region coding built-in and the regions are listed on the packaging to show where the product can be sold and where the product can be played.
DVD and Blu-ray region coding are a form of protecting rights for each territory. Digital content (Internet streaming and digital download or EST (Electronic Sell-Through) is the new format. With every new format, standards and territory restrictions need to be set so every country licensing content (live action series, anime or movies) can have their rights protected and be able to sell for their specific territories.
If Americans continue to download the show illegally and if fansubs are allowed to proliferate among the American fanbase, we will lose this show. No doubt in my mind.
This is why when a person living in the United States wants to watch a Dr. Who episode on BBC’s iPlayer site, they get the following message “Not available in your area.” The video content is only offered in the UK for UK residents. In the UK, people have to pay 145 pounds annually to get the BBC. It’s an annual license fee that keeps the BBC up and running. In short, British citizen tax dollars pay for Dr. Who. Since you do not live in that country and are not paying for the service, you don’t get access to the content until it is sold to a company in the country that you live in (US – we have BBC America that airs Dr. Who very close the premiere date in the UK) This UK example is very similar to the way people pay for TV in Japan.
We said it on the podcast, but if you're living internationally, bother Toei Animation as much as you can (and the companies you want to provide it) to start simulcasting the series. Companies like Madmen who are already distributing the series are more likely to fall with pressure since they already own the rights, they may just need to get the simulcasting rights. For example, in Australia, you guys got FMA: Brotherhood streaming. It's doable. Just take some time out of your day and right a letter, call someone, it's easy.
If American fans continue to download the series illegally or stream it illegally instead of using the easy to find proper channels, we will lose the series forever. No doubt about that.
I also don't understand Funi not just handing Yibis a C&D letter and putting on the dog and pony show instead.
I am sure that Funi would love to put the hammer down on Yibis but something tells me that it won't be that easy. Most likely Yibis has their server in a country that isn't in the US. That means they are outside of Funi's reach. The only way (that I know of) Funi to start trying to shut them down is communicating with that country's authorities and explain that the site is providing an illegal distribution of a product that they have the rights for. The thing is that this takes a long time to do based on how long it took to shut down a certain popular illegal One Piece streaming site. Then there is no guarantee that the country in question authorities would even bother working with Funi and the US authorities.
Also even if you do get rid of one fansubbing group, another one is bound to come out of the woodwork. The illegal OP streaming site I mention is a good example of that.
If they did that do you think people would wait and not read spoilers or look at scanlations released up to a week early? I certainly don't think many people would change their habits.
If Viz does a simluchapter release then I would hands down wait the extra few days to read it.
An International Version of the BBC iPlayer is happening in 2011 though.
how about we make our next poll: did you know downloading fansubs is illegal?
No need for sarcasm. I'm just saying you guys could give a little warning about the fact that we could be receiving a $300+ fine.
Anyways, if funi is doing this because of that incident with their simulcast being distributed before it was intended then they should be going after horriblesubs and the people who dl their rips. Something just seems off about this whole thing.
No need for sarcasm. I'm just saying you guys could give a little warning about the fact that we could be receiving a $300+ fine.
Anyways, if funi is doing this because of that incident with their simulcast being distributed before it was intended then they should be going after horriblesubs and the people who dl their rips. Something just seems off about this whole thing.
As I said before, Funi most likely want to go after the fansubs and rip groups but most likely they can't because those people and/or servers are outside the United States. Funimation only has power within America and anybody outside of the country are 'safe'. There are ways for Funi to get those people but those ways take a lot of work and it really depends if the other country wishes to help out. So instead Funi is doing what they can which in this case involves filing a lawsuit to people who upload/distribute the fansub.
Status: Stuff stuff. Been too lazy to update this space. 
Well then what was the fuss over Kingloser's post when he was quite simply stating to the people who enthusiastically await leaked chapters each week and yet claim the highground on those who illegally download that they're being a bit hypocritical on that front?
I can't speak for anyone else, but this guy keeps coming down on me for doing something I Repetedly try to to tell him I am NOT doing.
Let me repeat this as plainly and simply as I can.
Downloading illegal anime episodes is in NO way any less or more illegal than downloading manga chapters.
LET ME REPEAT.
Downloading illegal anime episodes is, in NO WAY, any more or less illegal than downloading manga chapters.
My ONLY problem is with the people who are fucking villainizing FUNimation for trying to do something about it like these people are god damned entitled to have those illegal anime episodes.
News flash people: None of us, I repeat, NONE OF US are entitled to be able to illegally download One Piece in ANY FORM. That includes anime AND the fucking manga. You all, myself included, are doing something illegal. WE are the fucking bad guys. There is NOTHNG WRONG with a rights holder trying to protect their IP.
Now stop acting like I'm sitting on some fucking high horse I was never on.
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Whoah; I like you and all, and you're damn smart about the manga but just what the fuck was that? Chill out.
And I think this thread has been pretty much reasonable and devoid of those you're talking of anyway.
And I never 'acted like you were on a fucking high horse.' I was not talking to you or about you.
In fact KingLoser's original post goes 'How many people who' … not 'Demon Rin does this, Demon Rin does that'
shut up, kuminator
kingidiot was implying that she felt entitled to our manga fix
simple as that
News flash people: None of us, I repeat, NONE OF US are entitled to be able to illegally download One Piece in ANY FORM. That includes anime AND the fucking manga. You all, myself included, are doing something illegal. WE are the fucking bad guys. There is NOTHNG WRONG with a rights holder trying to protect their IP.
Now stop acting like I'm sitting on some fucking high horse I was never on.
Eh, I think calling yourself the 'bad guy' is a bit much. Like I said before…
I don't really have any moral opposition to pirating and I hope the 1,337 that are being sued get off as easy as possible (If not avoid punishment outright), but I don't think reading scanlations is exactly the same thing. Whose money are you taking away, exactly? The current chapters won't be released until the mid or late 2010s, at the moment there's no wallet to give the money to, and if they buy the manga volumes whenever they're released I don't see how they're causing any financial loss at all. They're buying everything that's possible to buy.
Reading scanlations of new chapters might be illegal, but I can't think of any way that it causes any harm. The people reading it are almost entirely those who can't speak Japanese and wouldn't buy the original version anyway, so no losses there. You're not taking anything away from Viz because the English version of the current chapters entail a product that doesn't exist yet. If you buy the manga releases as they come out, then you're buying every English product that actually exists and doing everything you can to support the company.
I don't know, I just think the "I'm the bad guy even though what I'm doing causes no damage to anything, if I was caught I'd deserve to be punished even though what I'm doing is harmless and I give Viz every dollar I possibly can since I consistently buy the English releases" attitude's a bit much. You seem to be equating morality with legality, when they really aren't always the same.
Oda himself, people who work for and through Oda, people who distribute and translate the manga, people who translate and distribute the anime, and people who dub the anime don't get paid.
For people other than Oda, it's already a hard enough industry to get a pay check that actually pays the bills.
So people that work for companies like FUNimation or animate for Toei are the ones getting the short end of this stick.
That's damage, and to say otherwise is ignorance.
@Zach:
Damn, I thought this forum was bad…I made the mistake of reading the replies on the Yibis forum.
To those complaining about FUNimation not providing international simulcasts, read this article by Lance (FUNi Marketing Director) concerning international releases of simulcasts:
http://blog.funimation.com/2011/01/anime-simulcasts-territory-rights-and-the-future/Here's an excerpt:
We said it on the podcast, but if you're living internationally, bother Toei Animation as much as you can (and the companies you want to provide it) to start simulcasting the series. Companies like Madmen who are already distributing the series are more likely to fall with pressure since they already own the rights, they may just need to get the simulcasting rights. For example, in Australia, you guys got FMA: Brotherhood streaming. It's doable. Just take some time out of your day and right a letter, call someone, it's easy.
If American fans continue to download the series illegally or stream it illegally instead of using the easy to find proper channels, we will lose the series forever. No doubt about that.
Whilst i may agree with you that we should contact the companys, im not too sure that that would be of any use in Ireland.
As it says in the article bbcs iplayer in unavailable in the USA, but it is also not available in Ireland, so judgeing from that there is the chance that if the UK got the rights to do it Ireland would still be unable to watch it. And as there is no anime companies in ireland, there is really noone i would be able to send letters to, to ask them to aquire the rights to it.
Ireland has the same region codes as the UK. Easy and legal import.
It's like how Canadians can import our DVD sets, but Austrailians and UKers can't.
And when this manga closes out, and Luffy's arm stretches back to deliver that last punch, I wanna feel the crunch of the dream coming true.
Wait, I don't understand. How does reading scanlations of newly released Japanese chapters do any financial damage to Viz (people who distribute and translate the manga) if you buy every single volume that Viz releases, ie you pay for every product that you can possibly pay for? I'm not saying the scanlation business itself does no harm, just that I don't see how a single person reading scanlations does any harm if they buy every English release whenever it comes out. And I don't get where the anime comes in, since I never said anything relating to the anime. Are you sure you're not misreading my post?
You're not buying the original Japanese Shounen Jump from whence those scans came.
More lost revenue.
I listed the anime stuff to clarify so idiots can understand.
And when this manga closes out, and Luffy's arm stretches back to deliver that last punch, I wanna feel the crunch of the dream coming true.
@Badass:
Because he's basically been repeating the same thing over and over again no matter how many times people say exactly what I did in my post.
Your point disproves nothing
Badass Snocone: Humph, people who download Anime illegially, tsk tsk
???: lol, don't you read Manga ilegally
Badass Snocone: YEAH, BUT I KNOW ITS WRONG
They also know its wrong, and they give as much of a shit as you.
In short, he means that you should stop taking the high ground, and you should
@dirt:
You're not buying the original Japanese Shounen Jump from whence those scans came.
More lost revenue.
Oh well, it doesn't really matter. Oda's probably so rich at this point from the Japanese fanbase that he could buy Japan if he wanted to.
But the point is that it's not just Oda getting the money. He has never been the only one getting the money for making this manga. Shueisha distributes it in Japan, and there are lots of people who in the long and short run might just be dropped because the revenue isn't coming in from people that steal the manga.
Same thing for the anime with Toei.
And when this manga closes out, and Luffy's arm stretches back to deliver that last punch, I wanna feel the crunch of the dream coming true.
@dirt:
Ireland has the same region codes as the UK. Easy and legal import.
It's like how Canadians can import our DVD sets, but Austrailians and UKers can't.
I suppose thats true. I just think it would be a good idea for toei to work with some translaters and have a monthly or yearly subscription service and simulcast it and have a download to own service included world wide.
@dirt:
But the point is that it's not just Oda getting the money. He has never been the only one getting the money for making this manga. Shueisha distributes it in Japan, and there are lots of people who in the long and short run might just be dropped because the revenue isn't coming in from people that steal the manga.
Same thing for the anime with Toei.
What if I wait until One Piece enters the public domain to download it?
@Dr.:
What if I wait until One Piece enters the public domain to download it?
I hope you're speaking hypothetically, because if not, you'll be waiting a very, very long time.
But hypothetically then, yes, sure, that'd be legal.
When, in the 50 or 70 years after Oda dies or the copyright expires?
Go ahead, and download in the future.
@Zach:
I hope you're speaking hypothetically, because if not, you'll be waiting a very, very long time.
But hypothetically then, yes, sure, that'd be legal.
what makes something in the public domain and not in it?
rant in giant letters
I've bought every English volume of OP, and Bakuman, that's been released to date. I had a subscription to American Jump. If Viz got chapters out the same week as Japan, and had full spot on translations, I'd go official full time and never look at a scanlation again. As it is, they're still over a year behind (and until last year, they were nearly ten years behind) have edits, inaccurate translations, and a high cover price, but I buy it legit all the same.
The anime streams, for free, on an official site. If I cared about the anime at all, I'd watch it there.
If I lived in Japan and read Japanese, I'd be buying Jump. There is no real english equivilent currently available to me (American Jump is prone to jumping hundreds of chapters at a time, dropping series, focusing on only 6 titles, and is years and years behind the Japanese releases.)
So. What exactly is wrong with checking scanlation the week a chapter comes out in Japan? I'm still paying for it, as soon as a lesser quality version of the same content is available for official purchase in my language.
what makes something in the public domain and not in it?
Copyright law. It takes 50 years after the creator's death for something to fall into public domain, and even then estates and publishers can keep it going for some time. Like Superman, Mickey Mouse, or Sherlock Holmes.
However, there are some really old tv shows and things that hit different precedent, so there are like, Popeye cartoons that are public domain. Anyone can get them and sell them or use them to their own end… but not ALL of them.
If it was made after 1940, its probably not in the public domain yet.
you're stealing from the Japanese Shounen Jump then, bobby
Nothing is wrong. There just isn't much justification if you are caught and sued… Assuming it's not really easy to be jailed for common practice like streaming stuff online, even if one were to try or turn themselves in.
Very true, hard to attack someone in another country, but stealing is still stealing. And the Japanese Shounen Jump is also available in the US … though you'd have to look for it.
I'm paying for it and thus I'm stealing it.
That makes no sense whatsoever.
Indeed; I don't think it necessarily stealing if you buy an official copy of what it is you have; Tankobon / Scans etc.
You've already paid for you to access that content.
…
Who are you.
Badass Snocone: Humph, people who download Anime illegially, tsk tsk
Inaccurate. It should be:
Badass SnoCone: Humph, people who live in the United States where a stream of the episode is fully subtitled and made available within an hour of the original Japanese Broadcast who download the Anime illegally, regardless tsk tsk
^Thats what I've been saying. But not as exaggerated as you made it out.
PS: I decided to leave in the "Humphs" and "tsks". Because.
???: lol, don't you read Manga ilegally
Badass Snocone: YEAH, BUT I KNOW ITS WRONGThey also know its wrong, and they give as much of a shit as you.
Just so you know, it's not like I read the scanlations and never pay anything for the manga. I've bought every single volume of One Piece released in English so far. All 55 of them. This month, I will buy the 56th one. And in June, I will do the same for the 57th one.
The point is that if somehow, for some reason, Viz decided to do this for scanlated manga, then I would have to understand that they'd have somewhat of a good reason. Hypothetically. Somewhat. If. What.
@RobbyBevard:
I'm paying for it and thus I'm stealing it.
That makes no sense whatsoever.
Well, if you check the scanlation first, that's stealing- there's no two ways about it. But if you buy the official copy afterwards, when it's released, then it balances out- because you are in fact supporting the series.
It's unfortunate that the official English releases are so far behind, but what else can you do but support every step of the way to catching up?
The truth of the matter is you can't justify reading scanlations 'ahead of time' from a legal standpoint, which is the kicker if you're subscribed to the releases and actually paying, but I guess it has to be accepted.
Indeed; I don't think it necessarily stealing if you buy an official copy of what it is you have; Tankobon / Scans etc.
You've already paid for you to access that content.
I believe that's true, as a personal policy. For example, the podcast crew and myself buy all of the Weekly Shonen Jump issues from our local vender.
The best solution on the manga end is a simulchapter release. It's ridiculous that it doesn't exist as it isn't such an incredible concept. I can't blame Americans the same way for looking at scanlations because it isn't the same situation. It's comparing apples and apples that you can't get for a year and a half.
Host and Founder The One Piece Podcast The views expressed are solely my own.
Eh, note that I said 'from a legal standpoint'. Honestly, I'd rather be indebted to a series than wait for goodness knows how long until something comes out in tangible form.
I'm not entirely sure if I'd have a lot of storage in my flat for all the books it takes to catch up with One Piece, let alone DVDs. But eh, every little bit helps.
As I said before, Funi most likely want to go after the fansubs and rip groups but most likely they can't because those people and/or servers are outside the United States. Funimation only has power within America and anybody outside of the country are 'safe'. There are ways for Funi to get those people but those ways take a lot of work and it really depends if the other country wishes to help out. So instead Funi is doing what they can which in this case involves filing a lawsuit to people who upload/distribute the fansub.
Yes but funi is suing people who downloaded yibis subs right? So why not sue the people who are illegally downloading their very own subs from horriblesubs? I'm sure there are plenty of people in the US downloading from those guys.
Yes but funi is suing people who downloaded yibis subs right? So why not sue the people who are illegally downloading their very own subs from horriblesubs?
Well it's just one legal action, and they chose to go after this. It might be because a lot of the subs used for streaming sites originate from Yibis.
@Zach:
Well it's just one legal action, and they chose to go after this. It might be because a lot of the subs used for streaming sites originate from Yibis.
It's different then scanalstions while it technically is pirating it's not available legally on any website these episodes are being given to us and are available to us in America legally. I think funimation has a right to do this although I feel pity for them. Zach you study law what the common punishment for piracy
@RobbyBevard:
I'm paying for it and thus I'm stealing it.
That makes no sense whatsoever.
Did you pay for that particular chapter, or a volume containing it before reading it?
No. You didn't. Because it's not out in your country yet.
You stole that chapter, everyone who read it stole it. I read the chapters this way weekly, so I steal them too.
Will someone actually go after you for that one chapter? No, probably not, but in the strictest sense, you did just steal that chapter.
It's not like brand loyalty makes you able to just keep taking. The act of buying every single volume up to date doesn't change the fact that you haven't purchased the particular chapter you are reading.
That's like buying 50 candy bars at your local convenience store, and then walking in and say "I bought so many in the past, that I deserve to just take this one", and trying to walk out with one without paying.
Indeed; I don't think it necessarily stealing if you buy an official copy of what it is you have; Tankobon / Scans etc.
You've already paid for you to access that content.
You don't think it necessarily is stealing.
But it's Stealing.
Look, I'm not, nor was I ever, trying to sit here and tell people that they should stop doing what they're doing, or even that it's really morally wrong.
I'm saying, as plainly as I can, that downloading or reading a chapter/Episode you did not pay for is illegal. You may never ever get caught, but it's illegal.
Therefore, there is absolutely nothing wrong with anyone who actually has rights to this material attempting to stop said theft.
You people need to realize you are not entitled to have this material for free, and just realize this is simply a risk you run when you download things.
Switch Friend Code: SW-1795-2519-1884 • Click Here to check out my Twitch Channel
You don't think it necessarily is stealing.
But it's Stealing.
By the way, did you read my response to your breakdown earlier? I want to make sure you did since we're on a new page and all.
Is it stealing if I sit infront of my computer with Chapter Volume 54 and then download 54? For what I've taken I've contributed my share to the franchise by buying an official version.
Look, I'm not, nor was I ever, trying to sit here and tell people that they should stop doing what they're doing, or even that it's really morally wrong.
I think we should all just agree to disagree on it cus I liked you as a poster and enjoyed reading your contributions, especially on the subject of 'nakama' with which I fully agreed with your views; but now I'm losing respect for you every time you reply with some bolded/ italicised/ size-shifted/ long-winded rant about how 'everyone here goes on about how they're entitled' when they just don't.
By the way, did you read my response to your breakdown earlier? I want to make sure you did since we're on a new page and all.
Is it stealing if I sit infront of my computer with Chapter Volume 54 and then download 54? For what I've taken I've contributed my share to the franchise by buying an official version.
I think we should all just agree to disagree on it cus I liked you as a poster and enjoyed reading your contributions, especially on the subject of 'nakama' with which I fully agreed with your views; but now I'm losing respect for you every time you reply with some bolded/ italicised/ size-shifted/ long-winded rant about how 'everyone here goes on about how they're entitled' when they just don't.
You guys are getting me interested in taking Copyright law. This stuff poses some really interesting issues in morality, public policy, and justice. For my share though, I agree. For example, I bought Color Walk: SHARK for around $27.00 at Kinokuniya, then I downloaded Al!na's version as well. Where is the line there? These are existential issues.
By the way, did you read my response to your breakdown earlier? I want to make sure you did since we're on a new page and all.
Is it stealing if I sit infront of my computer with Chapter Volume 54 and then download 54? For what I've taken I've contributed my share to the franchise by buying an official version.
Morally, you're in the clear. (though this is subjective I suppose)
Technically, you just downloaded an illegal version, and they could go after you if they really wanted to.
Not to say they will, they probably won't, but in the strictest sense of the law, it's illegal and if they wanted to, they could go after you. (Which they wouldn't for just one chapter, they'd go after distributors first)
I think we should all just agree to disagree on it cus I liked you as a poster and enjoyed reading your contributions, especially on the subject of 'nakama' with which I fully agreed with your views; but now I'm losing respect for you every time you reply with some bolded/ italicised/ size-shifted/ long-winded rant about how 'everyone here goes on about how they're entitled' when they just don't.
I made One post that had "Bolded/italicised/size-shifted" letters.
And at one point, I was really only replying to that one guy, and to a much lesser extent, you. He just kept poking at me like I was a hypocrite for taking some kind of moral high-ground above people who DL the anime… when I was never ever doing that ever at any point.
Essentially, I'm not saying everyone in this thread act entitled, but there were a few acting that way, and some cited from elsewhere who were. I went out of my way SEVERAL times to say "I'm not saying I'm morally better for downloading Scanlations, just that shit IS Illegal". This is basically how the conversation went, I paraphrased, but tried to stay accurate:
Kingloser: I have a quick question, how many of the of the outraged by people downloading episodes read One Piece scanlations?
Me: It's not the downloading, it's the entitlement some people show. I'm fine with the actual act of downloading
Kingloser: But you download manga, how can you have a problem with people downloading the anime?!
Me: Again, it's not the actual act of downloading the episodes, it's just the people that act entitled about it, like they have a right to those free episodes. Nobody has a right, not them, not me, not anybody.
Kingloser: Now you're just the pot calling the kettle black, downloding the manga while saying others are wrong for downloading the anime. You're a hypocrite
Me: Seriously? How many times do I have to say I have no problem at all with people downloading this anime?! It's just the losers that act entitled about it that irk me!
Flux: Why are people against him? He has a point that you guys who download the manga can't take the moral highground on people downloading the anime. You're both getting them illegally
Demon Rin: How many times do I have to tell you people that's not the part I Was complaining about?! You people can download the anime as much as you want, I'm just talking about those people who act entitled about it.
That's the only part, the only thing I was replying to. His boldfaced insistence that I was a hypocrite for believing something I didn't believe at all.
Switch Friend Code: SW-1795-2519-1884 • Click Here to check out my Twitch Channel
@Zach:
You guys are getting me interested in taking Copyright law. This stuff poses some really interesting issues in morality, public policy, and justice. For my share though, I agree. For example, I bought Color Walk: SHARK for around $27.00 at Kinokuniya, then I downloaded Al!na's version as well. Where is the line there? These are existential issues.
Go for it; something that is laced with issues as broad and subjective as morality and justice are always interesting to study because it's never fully black and white. There's space for interpretation and debate.
@Demon:
Morally, you're in the clear. (though this is subjective I suppose)Technically, you just downloaded an illegal version, and they could go after you if they really wanted to.
But that works off the logic each reading of each chapter (let's say volume in this case) cancels out a potential sale.
But if I buy the official version of it, it contributes to the franchise. I am entitled to view that volume. It's not like by reading that volume online there was ever a potential sale to cancel out in the first place. I'm hardly going to buy 2 copies of the same volume.
Anyhow, it's late (or early I suppose) here and I've work to finish off before I head to bed.
But if I buy the official version of it, it contributes to the franchise. I am entitled to view that volume. It's not like by reading that volume online there was ever a potential sale to cancel out in the first place. I'm hardly going to buy 2 copies of the same volume.
Anyhow, it's late (or early I suppose) here and I've work to finish off before I head to bed.
Again, Morally I'm of the opinion that you should be able to just read away.
Legally, I'm like, 90% Sure you're still breaking the law.
I have the Dark Knight on Blu-ray, but didn't have the PS3 set up in my new house, so I DLed an SD copy on a torrent site a few months ago, just after I moved.
Cox canceled my service because of a complaint from WB/ the MPAA.
I told Cox My reasoning for DLing the file, and they told me it didn't matter, it was still illegal and I had to Delete the file before they would give me my internet back.
It doesn't matter, if you already purchased it, their response would be "well, why didn't you watch/read the one you purchased?"
Torrents have the added problem that they can also claim you distributed the file too. If there were 45 Leechers on the file you DLed, they can claim you distributed it to 45 people.
Again, I don't really think there's a problem with it, but legally, you aren't supposed to do stuff like that.
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Okay, I think all of us should try and calm down a bit before we end up saying things we don't mean.
Yes, Kingloser, Flux and Rin, all of you have good points indeed that I cannot deny as an accomplice in the act. At the same time, Robby made a good point in his case, and so has Zach. It's an incredibly fine line of morality - In the end, are we actually paying due amends buy buying the official versions later on, despite reading illegal scans weekly? I can't say, but if anything, I feel much better about reading illegal scans knowing I own or plan to own in the future volumes of series I enjoy. But is that just me ignoring the facts to satisfy my guilty conscience? Who knows…
But let me reinforce what I was trying to say earlier. You can talk all day about the fine lines of what is right and wrong, but the fact is, you can't compare the two situations for the anime and manga. For the anime, there is a legal subtitled version available one hour after the Japanese release. For the manga, there is currently no form of legal simulcasted manga scanlations for non Japanese readers.
Point in case, while it is illegal one way or another, there is at least more of a reason why manga readers are currently doing what they are doing. For people living in America who download American fansubs when the legal version is available right under their noses, that's when it goes from being an "understandable evil" to an "unnecessary evil". I am not preaching or saying either is right, but I am just comparing the two situations and trying to explain why we're upset at those downloading fansubs.
If a simulcast for the manga becomes available, that's when viewing scanlations crosses that line into no longer being understandable.
@Zach:
http://blog.funimation.com/2011/01/anime-simulcasts-territory-rights-and-the-future/
Did anyone read the comments below the article? That is what we mean by entitlement issues.
I thought I summed it up perfectly but I guess it just wasn't clear 'enough'. Whatever, I'm glad we got there in the end.
