I wonder what Kuina as a guy looks like…>.> She could be Rockstar in Shanks crew
Chapter 589: The Ambition of Turbulence
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Foward comment to Ivankovs thread… >.>
Wait... What ever happened to that thread?
I can't find it...
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Ivotas, I'm with you 100% on the Kuina thing if NOT for the man himself shooting it down in US Jump:
To be honest, I'm not so sure on that. I mean Oda also said that Beckman and Lucky Roo will be unimportant long ago but can the crew of a Yonkoh (and for the idol of Luffy of all people) really be unimportant? That's rather to be doubted.
As far as his statement about Kuina and Tashigi is concerned. Of course it has high chances of being true. But what if he's really planned some sort of connection between them? Would he really admit it and totally ruin the element of surprise? I have my doubts here too.
@robbybedfart:
I mean come on. If she met Ivanokov and had any idea of his abilities, she'd be a man now and get all that muscle mass she so desired.
By doing that she would confirm all those archaic gender roles she suffers so much from. I'd rather exxpect a determined kid like her to try and fight to prove them wrong.
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my theory is that, IVA turned kuina into a guy
Kuina and her father her death to avoid being linked to the revolutionariesHmmmm… Kuina regretted to be a girl so it is conceivable...
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As far as his statement about Kuina and Tashigi is concerned. Of course it has high chances of being true. But what if he's really planned some sort of connection between them? Would he really admit it and totally ruin the element of surprise? I have my doubts here too.
You have a point in that I'm unable to compare the Japanese from both statements. While he might have been coy about those two, here he kinda directly stated his sentiments. I can't agree with him admitting or not admitting something because it's been his policy to ignore questions he doesn't want to answer. It's not like JUMP asked him to answer that specific fan question. He actually took it upon himself to answer it.
I would certainly hope Oda wouldn't directly lie to us to that extent.
Again though, I really can't tell without access to his exact words.
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The main characteristic that Kuina and Tashigi differ in is, one was always shown to be top class skilled and graceful/uptight/arrogant in everything she has done, while the other one is also skilled with the sword, but clumsy/openminded/friendly in other aspects.
Ok, someone could go ahead and say: "Kuina is faking her clumsyness, it's not that hard actually for a skilled person", but characters that grow up consumed by arrogance, normally don't find a way to fake being polite. It's been a long time between Kuina's death and Tashigi's appearance and a lot could have happened to her, while her attitudes changed having been confronted with Zoro and various other things/people, sure, but Tashigi is usally the last person someone like Kuina would turn into.This brings us back to Ivotas' original theory, she's been brainwashed and has no clue of her former self, she just knows her body has been skilled with the sword all her life, while her mind can't always handle the techniques and movements she's using… thus the stumbling. It's really a theory worth acknowledging imo, cause it isn't that far fetched, but i'd be interested in the background some more, if Kuina did willingly turn into Tashigi, because she saw no future for her in the dojo continuing the training as a woman and why couldn't she choose the path that Robby foresaw and become Hulk instead or if EVIL Ivankov (probably overwhelmed by his female hormones :ninja:) just saw her train and introduced the back of her head with a bat -uh, that rhymed!
Either way, i'm glad we got Tashigi out of the story instead of Kuina in the end... tho some could start yapping and say Oda does that a whole lot, because we now get Sabo instead of Ace...
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The main characteristic that Kuina and Tashigi differ in is, one was always shown to be top class skilled and graceful/uptight/arrogant in everything she has done, while the other one is also skilled with the sword, but clumsy/openminded/friendly in other aspects.
Ok, someone could go ahead and say: "Kuina is faking her clumsyness, it's not that hard actually for a skilled person", but characters that grow up consumed by arrogance, normally don't find a way to fake being polite. It's been a long time between Kuina's death and Tashigi's appearance and a lot could have happened to her, while her attitudes changed having been confronted with Zoro and various other things/people, sure, but Tashigi is usally the last person someone like Kuina would turn into.This brings us back to Ivotas' original theory, she's been brainwashed and has no clue of her former self, she just knows her body has been skilled with the sword all her life, while her mind can't always handle the techniques and movements she's using… thus the stumbling. It's really a theory worth acknowledging imo, cause it isn't that far fetched, but i'd be interested in the background some more, if Kuina did willingly turn into Tashigi, because she saw no future for her in the dojo continuing the training as a woman and why couldn't she choose the path that Robby foresaw and become Hulk instead or if EVIL Ivankov (probably overwhelmed by his female hormones :ninja:) just saw her train and introduced the back of her head with a bat -uh, that rhymed!
Either way, i'm glad we got Tashigi out of the story instead of Kuina in the end... tho some could start yapping and say Oda does that a whole lot, because we now get Sabo instead of Ace...
the fact tashigi hangs with smoker who has an open sense of justice rather than a forceful preaching stand means its unlikely shes brain washed. the fact that they also have differing dreams means it's unlikely they are the same person. Kunia being an arrogant person wouldnt stop competing with her biggest childhood rival.
but who knows.
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the fact tashigi hangs with smoker who has an open sense of justice rather than a forceful preaching stand means its unlikely shes brain washed.
What does the one have to do with the other? :wassat:
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Btw, it wouldn't necessarily have to be Ivankov who brainwashed Kuina, it could also have been Kuma that repelled her memory.
And Kuina's father would have to be aware of the fact that Kuina is still alive, because he woudn't hold a ceremony for a dummy for no reason, would he? Perhaps he's even part of the Revolutionary Party…
What's totally in the cons is, that Kuina wouldn't have left her sword behind, unless she was taken by force/had no time/it was too risky to return...
EDIT: Or maybe she would, in order to not getting recognised.
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What does the one have to do with the other? :wassat:
some one who brain washes tends to have an over bearing controlling type. they wouldnt let their brain washed victims run too far off their leash. But she is constantly with smoker whos trying to get her to have her own opinions on justice as well as building her self confidence. Now im only arguing this cause they worded it "brain washed' rather then "amnesia". But people with memory amnesia don't usually lose their physical prowess. So it wouldn't make her clumsy unless oda is trying for a poorly written plot device of happenstance. Which is also unlikely.
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some one who brain washes tends to have an over bearing controlling type. they wouldnt let their brain washed victims run too far off their leash. But she is constantly with smoker whos trying to get her to have her own opinions on justice as well as building her self confidence. Now im only arguing this cause they worded it "brain washed' rather then "amnesia". But people with memory amnesia don't usually lose their physical prowess. So it wouldn't make her clumsy unless oda is trying for a poorly written plot device of happenstance. Which is also unlikely.
I see. Thanks for explaining that.
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Now im only arguing this cause they worded it "brain washed' rather then "amnesia". But people with memory amnesia don't usually lose their physical prowess.
Does Oda know that?
Did I just ask a question only God can answer? -
Still, this theory is only around because of how damn confusing Tashigi's presence in the story is. She's a twin of Zoro's dead friend. Too weak to fight Zoro, so she can't be a rival (or will she) yet she can beat countless faceless minions even while injured. She's following the crew thanks to Smoker, so she's going to do something…but what? This character is a living question and none of her appearances give her any development. The last thing we learned about her is that she looks pretty hot in a tank top.
Dear god I hope Kuina doesn't end up as a damsel in distress or something lame like that.
i see her in such a position for the story as Coby.
she`s on the "wrong side" and slowely notices that there is something wrong in the world.
she has a good mentor for free thinking and so i guess she will ahve an important role in the later years of OP, when the government has to chance to something "better". -
On the subject of Oda's statement about Kuina and Tashigi, the wording of the statement from the American SJ bothers me. I can't quite take it at face value; it feels kind of sarcastic and silly, like he knows something he's not saying. I honestly don't think he would randomly create another character that looks like a previous one without a reason but that reason could be little more than to mess with Zoro. I'm not saying he's lying, just not telling the whole story.
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I wonder if Sabo will have stayed with the revolutionaries or become a pirate along more conventional lines. We know that, above all else, he wants freedom. Now, the revolutionaries are fighting for freedom, but at the same time, being tied down to a cause would limit one's own freedoms.
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Very interesting theory Ivotas. Does anyone have a link to the actual interview with Oda that you are discussing? Is it on Greg's site?
And Kuina and Tashigi both turned up really early in the story, back when the plan was still to make it a story of 5 years duration, and it was intended to be a kids' story. Would Oda create something as complex as the Kuina/Tashigi switcheroo under those circumstances? Seems very complex…
I suppose you've probably all discussed this ad nauseum, but I suspect that Coby and Tshigi will ultimately be very integral forces for change in the WG–Luffy has consistently stated he has no interest in conquering anything, and Dragon's thing, from what we've been told, is to bring the WG down, but there are a lot of people who depend on the peace the WG at it's best provides. We've seen that not all the marines are evil--many are idealistic about their mission, but they truly believe they are there to defend and protect. It's the top that is rotten. Perhaps the change will be less a complete collapse and more a change of direction, lead not by Luffy or Dragon, (who are more the instruments by which the need for change becomes apparent than the creators of such), but rather by people like Smoker, Hina, Tashigi and Coby--and even Akainu.
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what if Sabo is caught somewhere (and thats why he could come to the Marineford) - and Luffy will come save him (so he can restore his self-belief, whatever, after the unlicky incident with Ace, ups).
but somehow, i'm not so much interested in Sabo….want to see mugiwaras...
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@I:
but there are a lot of people who depend on the peace the WG at it's best provides. We've seen that not all the marines are evil–many are idealistic about their mission, but they truly believe they are there to defend and protect.
Agreed. And down the line, i really feel sorry for ppl like Magellan - he is ACTUALLY doing a good job, keeping all those junk pirates in Impel Down.
And Luffy and Co are ACTUALLY bad guys - because otherwise Blackbeard would never be able to get those legendary pirates in his team.
…So yes, i understand Smoker and Tashigi. And - Magellan along with Hannyabal.
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@I:
Very interesting theory Ivotas. Does anyone have a link to the actual interview with Oda that you are discussing? Is it on Greg's site?
And Kuina and Tashigi both turned up really early in the story, back when the plan was still to make it a story of 5 years duration, and it was intended to be a kids' story. Would Oda create something as complex as the Kuina/Tashigi switcheroo under those circumstances? Seems very complex…
When it comes to Kuina still being alive, my spidey-senses aren't tingling. This whole amnesia story never seemed that likely, and her being alive as Tashigi would take away a little bit of the character. Tashigi is a good swordfighter and shows a great interest in swords, but the drive and aspiration Kuina showed in swordsmanship is not there. Tashigi however shows a strong aspiration to use her abilities to stop injustice.
The most vital part about Kuina's character is her struggle against genderroles and her being "doomed" to eventually end up weaker than a man just because of her being born a woman.
With Zoro becoming the strongest swordsman, this fact, which pained Kuina until her death, still wouldn't be contradicted.
And this is where Tashigi might come into the scene.
I think Oda has created Tashigi to fulfill what Kuina couldn't do after her death: Prove that a woman can defeat men, with her skill and willpower against all limits of physical strength.
Maybe we see her challenge Zoro after he defeats Mihawk, maybe we are just left with the promise of a battle of the two in the end of the manga. But I can see Tashigi earning Zoro's respect in the future. And maybe even Kuina's sword, which she is so much after.I suppose you've probably all discussed this ad nauseum, but I suspect that Coby and Tshigi will ultimately be very integral forces for change in the WG–Luffy has consistently stated he has no interest in conquering anything, and Dragon's thing, from what we've been told, is to bring the WG down, but there are a lot of people who depend on the peace the WG at it's best provides. We've seen that not all the marines are evil--many are idealistic about their mission, but they truly believe they are there to defend and protect. It's the top that is rotten. Perhaps the change will be less a complete collapse and more a change of direction, lead not by Luffy or Dragon, (who are more the instruments by which the need for change becomes apparent than the creators of such), but rather by people like Smoker, Hina, Tashigi and Coby--and even Akainu.
Yep, that's what I think too. No actually I expect something like this to happen, with Garp thrown into the mix aswell. It will be one of the most badass things to read, guaranteed!
But at the end… you mean Aokiji, right?:ninja::happy: -
I've always thought Tashigi was Kuina, but man, if Oda says so…
It just seems kind of dumb to make a near perfect doppleganger of zero relation. It's just random as hell.
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Yeah, I'm on the same boat as JERK DISEASE.
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When it comes to Kuina still being alive, my spidey-senses aren't tingling. This whole amnesia story never seemed that likely, and her being alive as Tashigi would take away a little bit of the character. Tashigi is a good swordfighter and shows a great interest in swords, but the drive and aspiration Kuina showed in swordsmanship is not there. Tashigi however shows a strong aspiration to use her abilities to stop injustice.
The most vital part about Kuina's character is her struggle against genderroles and her being "doomed" to eventually end up weaker than a man just because of her being born a woman.
With Zoro becoming the strongest swordsman, this fact, which pained Kuina until her death, still wouldn't be contradicted.
And this is where Tashigi might come into the scene.
I think Oda has created Tashigi to fulfill what Kuina couldn't do after her death: Prove that a woman can defeat men, with her skill and willpower against all limits of physical strength.
Maybe we see her challenge Zoro after he defeats Mihawk, maybe we are just left with the promise of a battle of the two in the end of the manga. But I can see Tashigi earning Zoro's respect in the future. And maybe even Kuina's sword, which she is so much after.Yeah, I agree about the general gyst of Tashigi's role vis-a-vie Zoro, but about besting him–I know this all seems very solid theorizing, and as a woman I should be behind this, I know, but... Yada! LOL I just can't get behind Zoro losing to Tashigi after all we've been through with them as a crew, yk? But if you mean she somehow earns his respect in other ways, and they become friendly rivals, yeah I could totally get behind that, lol.
OK to take this seriously---I do agree that Kuina's role was to take on the genderroles and being doomed to fail at besting a male due to gender differences etc., and to a degree, now, I do think Tashigi has assumed this role, after her speech to Zoro in Louguetown, although her stated dream is different, she still takes on the genderroles issue on her fights, but I think Oda won't have her beat Zoro because it would be too against the way the story as it's been building all along--and he's writing, he says, for young men, not young women. Its conceivable that as the father of a girl, he may be trying to raise consciousness among his readers, but I doubt it, and so far the support for her ever beating him in the story itself is pretty weak, and that seems like it'd be the only way he'd ever give her the sword, don't you think? Oda, if he's anything, is a dyed-in-the-wool foreshadower, and I can't for the life of me see anything that indicates she would someday kick his ass. I do see indicators that they may be rivals much like he was with Kuina, and I even see them becoming friends, though.
Perhaps Tashigi is meant to show the way a strong woman can be strong and true to her gender (as in not afflicted with penis envy) in a world dominated primarily by men. Maybe she'll find a way to use being a woman to make her a stronger fighter--that would indeed be awesome. It'd be much in the way that Usopp showed us how the "everyman, noble coward with a kick ass eye for sharp-shooting" has his own unique skills and as a result his own unique role, as well.
Yep, that's what I think too. No actually I expect something like this to happen, with Garp thrown into the mix aswell. It will be one of the most badass things to read, guaranteed!
But at the end… you mean Aokiji, right?:ninja::happy:Oops, yes of course Thanks for the correction
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Is it weird that last night I had a nightmare that after Luffy recovered all he did was train, got physically stronger and we never learn what the hell haki is?
Is it sad that I'm having nightmares about One Piece?
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wow. it completely and totally shocked me that luffy's seemingly unwavering confidence has, well, wavered. he's always been so happy and confident in himself and in others, and though behavior like that generally feels unrealistic in anime/manga, i feel as though oda has done a great job of making it believable.
luffy isn't just another typical main character that eats a lot and is always happycheerfulgenki all the fucking time, because of great scenes like this. him destroying nami's map room out of pure rage, him crying in the water 7 arc, and now, finally, him questioning his entire journey all-together.
this chapter has developed luffy in a way i never thought would happen. god DAMN oda is a wonderful storyteller. can't wait until the next chapter. >v<
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i dont think kuina died!!
i mean, how could she die just by falling down the stairs????
my theory is that, IVA turned kuina into a guy
Kuina and her father her death to avoid being linked to the revolutionariesDeath by falling down the stairs is not uncommon, it just isn't usually something you see in stories cause it isn't "epic" or an "honorable" way to go. But nonetheless, it is a way to go.
The anime attempted to make it should more acceptable by stating she was walking down the stairs with her unsheathed sword in hand searching for her scabbard. It's silly, cause she'd have no reason to mis-place her scabbard, but envisioning her falling down the stairs ultimately ending with her sword through her face is sadly quite humorous.
Ultimately, if you ask me, I say the poor choice of death was due to the series having just started out, involving a little girl, and being aimed at children. Oda was probably worried about giving her a more "elaborate" death, or quite possibly he originally did and his editor declined it. Oda of course grew much more comfortable with his position and his editors grown to trust his judgment, so a lot more things slide now.
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I just hope Oda doesn't do what's happening in Naruto and have people talking from their death. I'd really hate it if Zoro and Kuina's spirit have a conversation after Zoro achieves his dream.
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I am still reeling from this chapter. That last page is AMAAAAAAZING.
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Agreed. And down the line, i really feel sorry for ppl like Magellan - he is ACTUALLY doing a good job, keeping all those junk pirates in Impel Down.
And Luffy and Co are ACTUALLY bad guys - because otherwise Blackbeard would never be able to get those legendary pirates in his team.
…So yes, i understand Smoker and Tashigi. And - Magellan along with Hannyabal.
Now, I think Impel Down is one of those things that need to be changed within the WG that buster call mentioned. Impel Down obviously isn't what a prison should be like, and Magellan and Hannyabal aren't free from blame by blindly (and willingly) following orders. You're reminding me of this ideology that people within the OP world need to be afraid of pirates and therefore the WG's acts of cruelty are justified, when that's really just desperation lowering the standard . The SHs within the series aren't "bad guys," they're more rebels.
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Impel Down obviously isn't what a prison should be like, and Magellan and Hannyabal aren't free from blame by blindly (and willingly) following orders.
the WG doesn
t give someone the opportunity to chance ID in any way(even when you
re the leader of it youre actually just doing that what you
re told).it
s just like with the prisoners..once guilty they don
t get a second chance to come back to society.
when you get there you dont have the slightest chance to get free again and live a normal life. once you acted against the WG you won
t have a second chance in life(unless you`re so strong that they could make a profit out of you when you will join the WG)seeing how EL judged his prisoners with a "fake court" shows us that justice isn
t fair in the OP world (or does even rly exist)..it
s just the WG…fullstopso argueing about magellan or hannyabal to be good guys...mhhh, sure they are..also nearly every marine is.
they most likely have just the goal to protect people from lawless pirates (which you were told by the WG are those who want to steal your freedom..where instead actually the WG took it)
bad thing is that they have to work for the WG to achieve that..and by that they have to follow a path were justice is gone and they have to be loyal even when they have to act against their morals.it all stands under the shining star of protecting people but it
s more like CONTROLLING people to save their(the WG) power. therefore being a good guy doesn
t mean you can do the right things...you just can act within those small borders to do at least a bit for the civils. -
I was sitting in the dark waiting for sleep to take me when a thought popped in and I had to jot it down here.
I'm interested in stephen and Aohige's thoughts on this in particular.
Luffy's obviously going to get tougher but I think an interesting way of showing his physical and mental growth (yes he'll always be 'Luffy') would best be done with a trick of the text.
Know how someone noticed Luffy only says 俺 'ore' as おれ ? I wonder if when he overcomes this trial he'll reaffirm his promise with 海賊王に俺はなる!and use kanji from that point forward. Think it's possible he's been using hiragana to show his youth/inexperience?
I got really excited about this when it popped in.
Of course even though it's a small change it makes a world of a difference regarding the character and it would be a nice way to show 'growth' without taking a damn thing away from what/who Luffy is.
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I was sitting in the dark waiting for sleep to take me when a thought popped in and I had to jot it down here.
I'm interested in stephen and Aohige's thoughts on this in particular.
Luffy's obviously going to get tougher but I think an interesting way of showing his physical and mental growth (yes he'll always be 'Luffy') would best be done with a trick of the text.
Know how someone noticed Luffy only says 俺 'ore' as おれ ? I wonder if when he overcomes this trial he'll reaffirm his promise with 海賊王に俺はなる!and use kanji from that point forward. Think it's possible he's been using hiragana to show his youth/inexperience?
I got really excited about this when it popped in.
Of course even though it's a small change it makes a world of a difference regarding the character and it would be a nice way to show 'growth' without taking a damn thing away from what/who Luffy is.
Can we the japanese illiterate get a quick explanation to get the gist of what you´re saying? I understand it´s annoying, but it looks like a very nice detail you are pointing out and I´d hate to miss it due to my lack of skillz.
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These are times when stephen's SBS are so very, very useful. Sorry, I keep forgetting that maybe not everyone has read the recent ones these days.
The word 'ore' is a masculine way of referring to yourself. Some kids might use this because they see it in anime and they think its cool but it usually quickly dies down outside their close circle of friends once they realize the weight of the term. In other words, it'd be unnatural to see an elementary school 4th grader calling himself 'ore' to an adult he just met. In high school boys start to feel their oats and may start using it. I know several students that freely use it when talking with me. Granted they don't see me as a 'normal' teacher but I also hear them use it with other teachers. It depends on the kids and area of course.
Anyway, with respect to Luffy, Oda has always made him 'say' the term using exclusively hiragana and not the more intricate kanji. I dunno how to explain the difference in feeling to those who don't regularly read/practice Japanese writing/reading but writing well-known kanji out in hiragana seems somewhat childlike. Sometimes uneducated but also sometimes naive/cute. If Oda wanted Luffy to 'grow' he doesn't need to give him a beard, a new outfit or lines under his eyes, he could show it simply by having him say that one term in kanji but still be the same goofball.
I think it would be fucking SICK. But we'll see.
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I am still reeling from this chapter. That last page is AMAAAAAAZING.
Yes. There really are no words sufficient to describe that particular page. So any ideas how this will play out for Luffy, Greg?
Now, I think Impel Down is one of those things that need to be changed within the WG that buster call mentioned. Impel Down obviously isn't what a prison should be like, and Magellan and Hannyabal aren't free from blame by blindly (and willingly) following orders. You're reminding me of this ideology that people within the OP world need to be afraid of pirates and therefore the WG's acts of cruelty are justified, when that's really just desperation lowering the standard . The SHs within the series aren't "bad guys," they're more rebels.
Ooh interesting conversation.
Well… I can see why people started to think of Megellan as a "good" person, after he was reported as being so upset over the fiasco that he wanted to harm himself, but in a truly "just" system, a man such as he, who blindly allowed prisoners to be frozen/burned/eaten and tortured to death, can't really be called a "good" man.
Now–ID is an interesting thing. I think, (and I will freely admit it's possible I am over thinking it), that aside from the obvious references to Rocky Horror Picture Show, the presence in the prison of the Okama candies (people often looked upon by society as perverse) and their little slice of heaven, may be there to highlight the true perversity--the cruel ugliness of the prison and the “justice” system that sent the prisoners there, because of the contrast with the candies and Ivankov as some of the "good guy" characters in that arc--and herein lies some of Oda's genius to me--because exactly how "good" they are is still, IMHO, up in the air somewhat, as it is for many of the characters. They definitely have their own agenda. After all Ivan only helped Luffy at first because of some esoteric liking he took to him and Bon-chan due in part to their entertainment value as they went through the levels and that they each asked for help for each other, not themselves, and afterwards only when he learned Luffy was Dragon's son--so let's not fool ourselves about Ivan's altruism. I understand that he felt there was a "greater good" in waiting for Dragon to make his move on the outside, but this just serves to raise the bigger questions---what is “Justice,” what is “freedom,” and how long can they wait and how much do you sacrifice to the cause of the greater good? etc. Hmm---typing this out makes me wonder about how many moral corners Dragon himself has and continues to cut to make what he feels is right happen...
And the SHs “Rebels?” I don't know if I can call them that, per se. They aren't actively seeking to rebel, isn't that a necessary part of being called a rebel? They are more… free spirits. LOL I can't really think of a good political term to describe what they are at the moment--maybe someone else can.
I do think the exact nature of "Justice" and "Freedom," as ideals, has been left somewhat ambiguous in OP, and has been since the beginning. The characters are having to continuously decide for themselves what their own definitions of these concepts are, and what they decide in teh end will be very much to the point when it comes to rebuilding the new version of the WG. I am giddy with excitement to see where Oda takes us over the next decade.
So, I wonder where the corruption started–it may be due to the Gourosei's stranglehold on the system--they seem to be the true seat of power---but we just don't know, and the hints dropped by Reyleigh in SA leave a lot more questions raised than are answered--I felt when he told Robin that the SHs may make a different choice once they read the final Poneglyph that the possibility was raised that there may be a reason things started the way they did all those years ago that wasn't necessarily bad, and perhaps its been the implementation over the years that has corrupted it. Someone else recently said they thought the Roger pirates were unable to do anything at the time--(that's possible--we know Roger was already deathly ill when they got there) and that it may up to the SHs to right things. Again I don’t see Luffy as the savior of the OP world. I think there's been too much about working together and interdependence--I think saving the OP world will be a combined effort of concerned people--and I don't see Luffy--who desires nothing more than to be free and able to protect his loved ones--as being one of the central people involved in that. He's the catalyst for change, not the designer.
Oda–you are too good. Don't make the muses mad between now and the end--that's all we ask.
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These are times when stephen's SBS are so very, very useful. Sorry, I keep forgetting that maybe not everyone has read the recent ones these days.
The word 'ore' is a masculine way of referring to yourself. Some kids might use this because they see it in anime and they think its cool but it usually quickly dies down outside their close circle of friends once they realize the weight of the term. In other words, it'd be unnatural to see an elementary school 4th grader calling himself 'ore' to an adult he just met. In high school boys start to feel their oats and may start using it. I know several students that freely use it when talking with me. Granted they don't see me as a 'normal' teacher but I also hear them use it with other teachers. It depends on the kids and area of course.
Anyway, with respect to Luffy, Oda has always made him 'say' the term using exclusively hiragana and not the more intricate kanji. I dunno how to explain the difference in feeling to those who don't regularly read/practice Japanese writing/reading but writing well-known kanji out in hiragana seems somewhat childlike. Sometimes uneducated but also sometimes naive/cute. If Oda wanted Luffy to 'grow' he doesn't need to give him a beard, a new outfit or lines under his eyes, he could show it simply by having him say that one term in kanji but still be the same goofball.
I think it would be fucking SICK. But we'll see.
All this was explained in an SBS? Damn.
I do admit I haven´t really been keeping up though, sorry.
Anyway, thanks for the explanation. You don´t have to be Japanese to superficially understand the cultural implications of what you are saying. Thanks a lot man.
PS: I wouldn´t mind it if Luffy ends up looking like the profile guy from Romance Dawn though. And I´d expect some form of physical evidence of Iva´s intervention and his 10 years, without overdoing it too much. Shanks is in his 40s and there are no lines under his eyes. Although perhaps the scruff would be overdoing it.
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I thought Oda said he used hiraga "ore" just because he just likes it. And that he doesn't want to use it any other way? Anyways, making him use the kanji for it doesn't seem that…radical change to me. It would have more to do with Oda, not Luffy. In my opinion.
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@ Greg:
i would like to see in this way, how luffy has grown(even when it doesn`t rly influence me at all than):happy:
would it make a difference in the translations or is it just something those can notice, who actually can read the original version?other than that i wouldn`t be surprised when luffy gets a little beard on his chin like in the Romance Dawn version which is included in OP:Red
(last page, when we see him with his full crew) -
I was sitting in the dark waiting for sleep to take me when a thought popped in and I had to jot it down here.
I'm interested in stephen and Aohige's thoughts on this in particular.
Luffy's obviously going to get tougher but I think an interesting way of showing his physical and mental growth (yes he'll always be 'Luffy') would best be done with a trick of the text.
Know how someone noticed Luffy only says 俺 'ore' as おれ ? I wonder if when he overcomes this trial he'll reaffirm his promise with 海賊王に俺はなる!and use kanji from that point forward. Think it's possible he's been using hiragana to show his youth/inexperience?
I got really excited about this when it popped in.
Of course even though it's a small change it makes a world of a difference regarding the character and it would be a nice way to show 'growth' without taking a damn thing away from what/who Luffy is.
He's going to start using 私(watashi) and have excellent manners! That would be a real mind fuck…
Seriously I think that a switch to 俺(ore) would be AWESOME, but the people who just read scans/VIZ would never get to appreciate it. I'm adding this to my mental list of things that HAVE to happen.
Of course It would be badass if he had a leather jacket, sunglasses, and a beard:
Don't look under the spoiler tags unless you can handle extreme badassery!
!
Over 9000 hours of photoshop work!
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He's going to start using 私(watashi) and have excellent manners! That would be a real mind fuck…
Seriously I think that a switch to 俺(ore) would be AWESOME, but the people who just read scans/VIZ would never get to appreciate it. I'm adding this to my mental list of things that HAVE to happen.
Of course It would be badass if he had a leather jacket, sunglasses, and a beard:
Don't look under the spoiler tags unless you can handle extreme badassery!
! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v412/Ivan_Kakkoii/fuckingpirateking.jpg
Over 9000 hours of photoshop work!
HOT DAMN, THAT´S SEXY.
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I hope spoilers come soon so all this Kuina speculation/nonsense can cease. :)
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I hope spoilers come soon so all this Kuina speculation/nonsense cane cease. :)
So all the rest is acceptable for you?? Talk about sense. :ninja:
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So are we, are we not getting a chapter this week. Where are the spoilers. I am waiting… not yet ... still waiting ... WHERE ARE THE FUCKING SPOILERS.
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So are we, are we not getting a chapter this week. Where are the spoilers. I am waiting… not yet ... still waiting ... WHERE ARE THE FUCKING SPOILERS.
It's monday when was the last time we got monday spoilers? Wait until late tuesday/wensday.
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It's monday when was the last time we got monday spoilers? Wait until late tuesday/wensday.
actually we had been getting monday spoilers for a little while not to long ago, but then there was a scare and we are back to wednesday again.
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I hope spoilers come soon so all this Kuina speculation/nonsense cane cease. :)
You shouldn't take those people seriously…
Here is a list of theories you shouldn't take seriously
- Sabo = Zoro
- Sabo = Kaidou
- Sabo = Law
- Kuina = Mihawk
- Sabo is still dead cuz we haven't a confirmation (AFTER this chapter)
- Dragon saved Blu Jam or some fodder instead