Come on Deicide, bet your account.
What do you have to lose, besides your account.
Oh yeah, the loser can't come back through any dupes either.
Sabo's Fate? Vol. Alive Revolutionary Or ???
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Deicide, are you named for the deathmetal band formed in 1987 or for the amusing Engrish Bleach chapters?
I had to ask.
Look, Deicide, what exactly is it you're trying to hold onto? I don't want to be a dick braggart to you personally because you never said anything nasty or outrageous, but you've crossed the border of sensibility on this one.
We already have a mountain of evidence foreshadowing Sabo's 'potential', certain liberties taken with his character design making it difficult to see who he will be as an adult, the huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge potential for drama AND maybe even an opportunity for redemption for our characters.
For instance, even though I think Sabo will be a ridiculous badass, I'm fairly certain Oda will take shit full circle and present an opportunity for Luffy to save him. A whole arc? No, I'm not saying there will be a 'RESCUE LUFFY'S OTHUR BRUTHER' arc but a chance for Luffy to succeed where he failed before would be, well it would be really, REALLY fulfilling as a reader.
But anyway, okay, so we've got all that.
Now we know that Dragon stayed behind and rescued someone who was in really bad shape and needed medical attention.
We know that Dragon came in contact with Sabo and that he saw his reserve.
We more or less know that Dragon has the power of wind.
What are you waiting for man?
I really like some of your observations but your stance on this almost negates all of that.
Of course I/we can't tell you what to think and I don't think you're doing it because you're stubborn or something, I think you genuinely want to believe he's dead, but there's simply nothing left to support that outside Killer removing his mask and revealing who he is and why he can't break his cover since the Revolutionaries need to use Kidd (without his consent) for some large plan.
…wait what?
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Deicide, are you named for the deathmetal band formed in 1987 or for the amusing Engrish Bleach chapters?
I had to ask.
The meaning of the world, actually, but the word caught my attention throught the deathmetal band. I dislike the band, BTW. Deathmetal is not my thing.
Look, Deicide, what exactly is it you're trying to hold onto? I don't want to be a dick braggart to you personally because you never said anything nasty or outrageous, but you've crossed the border of sensibility on this one.
(…)
This is the part where I have little to talk. See, you're all right in this: I'm hopelessly outmatched here. I have nothing to present here that would convince anyone.
The only thing I have is that for now I can't see a satisfying role for Sabo. Ace just died and Luffy regaining an older brother later just seems as if the story was going backwards after a sequence of "serious" arcs. It seems like those bad comic stories, in which a character is dead at some point, but then they create another character to take his place.
About the scene from last chapter… I won't pretend to present an alternate interpretation. I won't support any wacky theory like Dragon bringing Bluejam or Stelly with him. I put a theory about Dragon being the injured one in an earlier post, but that was just an example on how the scene could be twisted, not what I really expect it to be. It's just that the scene could be playing with people's expectations, but later it turns out to be something else that will both be important at that point in the storyline and expand this flashback's plot.
Maybe I'm just being short-sighted (or too imaginative). I'm probably stretching the evidence to fill a theory instead of stretching the theory to fit in the evidences. Oda has the gift to create unexpected cool twists in his story, so I'm probably just expecting the wrong kind of twist. Maybe he will surprise me by giving Sabo a role I could never foresee, and some day I'll regret ever thinking Sabo should remain dead.
Well, that's how I feel about it.
Of course I/we can't tell you what to think and I don't think you're doing it because you're stubborn or something, I think you genuinely want to believe he's dead, but there's simply nothing left to support that outside Killer removing his mask and revealing who he is and why he can't break his cover since the Revolutionaries need to use Kidd (without his consent) for some large plan.
…wait what?
:blink::blink::blink::blink:
Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.
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Why take a page, of an otherwise fully Luffy focused chapter, just to say that "Dragon got an injury, that's pretty nasty, the night of the celestial dragons"?
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The only thing I have is that for now I can't see a satisfying role for Sabo. Ace just died and Luffy regaining an older brother later just seems as if the story was going backwards after a sequence of "serious" arcs. It seems like those bad comic stories, in which a character is dead at some point, but then they create another character to take his place.
Same here, but it's better to say this than to even dignify the .000001 percent chance that Sabo truly is dead.
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The only thing I have is that for now I can't see a satisfying role for Sabo. Ace just died and Luffy regaining an older brother later just seems as if the story was going backwards after a sequence of "serious" arcs.
That makes no sense.
A chance to make good on a promise you thought lost is backwards how?
And that's considering Sabo will even be all friendly and peppy as he was when Luffy knew him. He may have changed alot. His goals may now even be in conflict with Luffy's.It seems like those bad comic stories, in which a character is dead at some point, but then they create another character to take his place.
Sabo would be playing a role Ace never played. His revolutionary army aspect changes virtually everything.
Sabo will have a conflict in his relationship with Luffy no doubt.
With Ace there was never any conflict. Luffy never even treated him like a rival.
To be honest Ace as a whole never quite functioned as anything until he got his ass kicked and jailed.About the scene from last chapter… I won't pretend to present an alternate interpretation. I won't support any wacky theory like Dragon bringing Bluejam or Stelly with him. I put a theory about Dragon being the injured one in an earlier post, but that was just an example on how the scene could be twisted, not what I really expect it to be. It's just that the scene could be playing with people's expectations, but later it turns out to be something else that will both be important at that point in the storyline and expand this flashback's plot.
Nothing important can come of it unless Oda has presented something potentially coming from that night.
There was no such thing except Sabo.
If Oda just fools us into it being an important thing we never had hints for, then it makes no sense to use a red herring.Oda has the gift to create unexpected cool twists in his story, so I'm probably just expecting the wrong kind of twist.
When has Oda ever pulled a twist of zero purpose out of the blue?
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@JERK:
When has Oda ever pulled a twist of zero purpose out of the blue?
Never. I'm assuming that the twist would have purpose, it's just that this purpose is unknown for us right now.
Same here, but it's better to say this than to even dignify the .000001 percent chance that Sabo truly is dead.
I'm considering this possibility just to end this endless debate.
Edit: BTW, if Sabo were to return as an enemy, maybe a misguided one who needs to regain his lost dreams, I think it would be a pretty good twist. We don't have right now an enemy that is personally linked to Luffy. However, if Sabo would return just to be rescued by Luffy, to protect Luffy or so that Luffy can surpass him and thus prove he got stronger than Ace, I think it would be a waste of a character.
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I'm not always wrong, and I'm not always right, just like any of you.
Hey! I haven't been wrong once in a One Piece related issue yet. :ninja:
Who's idea was this "put your account on line for a bet over forum argument" anyways?
Challenging another user to a bet where one has to leave as an outcome?
God, that's so stupid. Whoever came up with that idea must be the biggest moron on the block.….............. :unsure:
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Oda's writing into Sabo's character a failure to meet his written promise from the letter, as well as forcing Ace and Luffy to live ~10+ years thinking their brother was dead. Well, the remainder of Ace's life, 10+ years for Luffy. The bond between Sabo and Ace will forever be left with Ace thinking Sabo was dead, and Sabo finding out he missed his closest friend and brother's execution.
No doubt Oda can concoct some sort of grandiose reason for Sabo to be alive, I just question why he didn't plan it better if that is where he always intended to take the story. Luffy will also have to struggle through the torment of losing another brother– his last one-- alone. I just figure Oda could have dropped hints about Sabo well before Marineford, mentioned him more in the war, given more hints during the flashback, etc, etc. There's so much more he could have done to prep the character to return before or after Ace's death, but he didn't. All he did was mention his name in a vague way once– only a handful of chapters prior, in fact. To bring him back now wouldn't seem planned out, but instead a decision made late in the story (poor planning). Given Oda plans this stuff well ahead of time, I cannot help but wonder why we never heard anything about this at all until ~15 chapters ago. It's like Oda is just copping out on really killing Ace by inventing another character out of nowhere to replace him. Not directly, of course, but in a way that all the little boys reading this story won't be so sad.
^^ Here's the main reason I chose the "Sabo is likelier dead than alive" stance last week, among a multitude of other reasons; perhaps it will hit home with Deicide. To summarize, this would just be one of those times where I think Oda did a poor job setting up a character (like this) that he planned on using long term; especially someone who will be so important. I'm sure I'll be happy with whatever Oda does with him, but there will always be some things that bother me with the overall execution, much like Blackbeard's use of his Warlord title.
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^^ Here's the main reason I chose the "Sabo is likelier dead than alive" stance last week, among a multitude of other reasons; perhaps it will hit home with Deicide. To summarize, this would just be one of those times where I think Oda did a poor job setting up a character (like this) that he planned on using long term; especially someone who will be so important. I'm sure I'll be happy with whatever Oda does with him, but there will always be some things that bother me with the overall execution, much like Blackbeard's use of his Warlord title.
Exactly my feelings, Sabo's entrance into the story and the role he has been given seems like a lot to take in such a small timeframe when not even a whisper had hinted to his existence before this arc, other than Ace's tat. Then we're going to have this emotional reunion but it just feels off due to how we met the character.
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A post that probably doesn't apply to the current debate:
As nice as it is that Sabo's alive, I find it funny how some people have this deep need to predict Oda's every move and may even experience intense euphoria at correctly predicting an event with only two outcomes to begin with… and when nearly everyone else came to the same conclusion according to this poll.
Most of the people familiar with Oda's writing style understood the kind of foreshadowing at play in the Sabo scenario, but hey, I wouldn't even think of persecuting the people who thought otherwise because, yes, Oda was trying to confuse the reader and made things super ambiguous ( and strangely enough, more obvious that way…). If he didn't think he was going to fool anyone, what would have been the point? Plot-wise, only Luffy needed to not know he was alive, Oda could've shown us Dragon rescuing Sabo in whatever mysterious way he did, but did he? No, because he's playing for a response from the readers, a group supposedly composed of individuals much younger than many of the serious intellectuals around here who like to gloat about how right they are. So next time this shit starts up, try to remember that the writer is just doing his job.
I know I should have some words for the "Sabo is dead" crew as well but the criticism there is essentially the same. Adjust as necessary. Also, ~some people~ need to let go of the possibility of Sabo being dead. Seriously.
Speculation is all good and fun, but please, we don't need any stakes involved.
@brennen - I pretty much share your feelings on the introduction and handling of the character so far.
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brennen, regarding Ace thinking Sabo is dead. That won't happen. Because as Ace is now a part of 'The Voice of All Things' he surely knows that Sabo is alive and well. As soon as Luffy can hear that, we'll find out that he does.
Also
Why I disagree on the 'no hints'.
Originally I was in your shoes. I got to thinking, "Why the fuck didn't they chat about Sabo more?"
That is until I realized, they got all the way to friggin' Arabasta before they knew THEIR CAPTAIN had a brother. They drink and fuck around together onboard all the time but Luffy didn't bring it up. So I have no problem with him not mentioning it.
However…
Thinking deeper I thought it odd for him to avoid thinking/talking about him when he met Ace. But then I realized, "Oh wait...HE'S FUCKING DEAD!"
They're not gonna be like, "So you heard from Sabo?", because there isn't a Sabo. And Luffy isn't going to mention that he has another brother because his other brother has been dead a long time.
As far as I can tell, Oda's been hinting at Sabo ever since 507. That's almost two years ago. Now consider that this goal, 'being free' is essentially what MOVES Luffy. We can only realize it in hindsight, but Oda's been working up to giving us a background for our hero for the past two years and that's not something he could've cooked up over night.
Now I know you get that. What you're saying is you don't like how he implemented it. I think MAYBE something along the lines of a hint beyond what we got would have been a nice touch but I think he deliberately wanted to handle it that way and it came off pretty damn swell. I like how he took a shit character I didn't care about and made him into someone I simply cannot WAIT to see unveiled (or unmasked).
As nice as it is that Sabo's alive, I find it funny how some people have this deep need to predict Oda's every move and may even experience intense euphoria at correctly predicting an event with only two outcomes to begin with… and when nearly everyone else came to the same conclusion according to this poll.
Most of the people familiar with Oda's writing style understood the kind of foreshadowing at play in the Sabo scenario, but hey, I wouldn't even think of persecuting the people who thought otherwise because, yes, Oda was trying to confuse the reader and made things super ambiguous ( and strangely enough, more obvious that way…). If he didn't think he was going to fool anyone, what would have been the point? Plot-wise, only Luffy needed to not know he was alive, Oda could've shown us Dragon rescuing Sabo in whatever mysterious way he did, but did he? No, because he's playing for a response from the readers, a group supposedly composed of individuals much younger than many of the serious intellectuals around here who like to gloat about how right they are. So next time this shit starts up, try to remember that the writer is just doing his job.
Buzz Killington.
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Oh Greg… You are too funny.
On a side note, directed to whats his face, I agree with you in the sense that we can't be 100% sure he is alive untill we see him walking around. But the same could be said with Pell and his hat after the doctor. We were 99.99% sure it was Pell, but still, it could have been a dog for all we know.
Being optimistic, I totally say Sabo is alive and that we will see him again.
Going with other whats his face, It is somewhat poor writing on Oda's part cuz there wasn't alot of info there to begin with except a tiny amount of foreshadowing for a person, not even a whole lot on his name, just that he existed. And for a "Major" chr like that with such a heavy influence... I mean... I seriously don't know how Oda is going to set this up. Thus is why Oda is God.
Back to you Greg
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Thinking deeper I thought it odd for him to avoid thinking/talking about him when he met Ace. But then I realized, "Oh wait…HE'S FUCKING DEAD!"
They're not gonna be like, "So you heard from Sabo?", because there isn't a Sabo. And Luffy isn't going to mention that he has another brother because his other brother has been dead a long time
Luffy: "See, I'm a wanted pirate too. I'll catch up to you in no time!"
Ace (happy): "I wonder what Sabo would be thinking if he could see us two now"
Ivotas: "No matter how I look at it, this doesn't strike me as a conversation that doesn't make sense!" ;P -
All he did was mention his name in a vague way once– only a handful of chapters prior, in fact. To bring him back now wouldn't seem planned out, but instead a decision made late in the story (poor planning).
What about Ace's tattoo having Sabo's flag?
Ace looked exactly like Roger. That mean Oda planned him to be Roger's son long time ago. Same for the tattoo. -
[The Strawhat Gang] got all the way to friggin' Arabasta before they knew THEIR CAPTAIN had a brother. Thinking deeper I thought it odd for him to avoid thinking/talking about him when he met Ace. But then I realized, "Oh wait…HE'S FUCKING DEAD!" Luffy isn't going to mention that he has another brother because his other brother has been dead a long time.
The problem with this is that you are treating it like it's the real world. Oda's creating a story here, so all he has to do is create a situation, any situation, where a hint is dropped, a comment is made, or a thought is had. It's an easy thing for an author; simple foreshadow, that's all. Nothing from Oda this time around though, save a vague comment about 14 chapters prior.
We can only realize it in hindsight, but Oda's been working up to giving us a background for our hero for the past two years and that's not something he could've cooked up over night.
Well sure, yeah, I can totally agree with that, as I had been expecting a flashback since they left Impel Down myself; the problem is Sabo though. While I trust Oda knows what he is doing, I cannot overlook the lack of setup for Sabo. Vague ties like being free and Ace's tat can easily be given any explanation at all, and we would be none the wiser. Hell, I'd have been fine with Sabo's development had he died, like most flashback characters are handled. As a longer term, major-role playing character though, even if he was thought of well ahead of time, the execution comes across poorly and seems unplanned. But I mean, that's just my view, and in the end I don't mind, I'm just explaining why I was thinking the end result could have been a little different.
What you're saying is you don't like how he implemented it. I think MAYBE something along the lines of a hint beyond what we got would have been a nice touch but I think he deliberately wanted to handle it that way and it came off pretty damn swell.
If he did, fine, but it doesn't really sit right with me. It's sort of like the Gol D. Ace reveal in that it works well with the story, I guess, but it could have been much better had there been more subtle hints dropped or parallels made. As it is, however, while surprising, I didn't find it to be that impressive. What comes after will likely be great, but what came first will always be lacking.
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Luffy: "See, I'm a wanted pirate too. I'll catch up to you in no time!"
Ace (happy): "I wonder what Sabo would be thinking if he could see us two now"
Ivotas: "No matter how I look at it, this doesn't strike me as a conversation that doesn't make sense!"And yet, it makes just as much sense without it since neither of them have actually accomplished what they set out to do.
Does it make sense that Luffy might have mentioned at some junction that he had a brother to his crewmates? Yes. Did he? No. Does it make less sense knowing Luffy? No.
Plus, ya know, his- I see Sea beat me to it.
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Nothing from Oda this time around though, save a vague comment about 14 chapters prior.
What about Ace's tattoo? Or the first line about 'being free'? And the sake cups? Just because he didn't say 'Sabo' doesn't mean he wasn't hinting at it.
And you know, looking back on it, I'd be a lot less interested in Luffy trying to rescue Ace if I was all hot and bothered about another brother.
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What about Ace's tattoo? Or the first line about 'being free'? And the sake cups? Just because he didn't say 'Sabo' doesn't mean he wasn't hinting at it.
"Vague ties like being free and Ace's tat can easily be given any explanation at all, and we would be none the wiser." If this were Kubo Tite, we'd be calling ass pull. I'm not saying they were bad, just that it could have had any explanation or no explanation at all and it would have made little difference to us. In hindsight, yes, they appear to be nice touches, but for all we know Oda decided it on a whim. Maybe he hadn't planned out Sabo at all and just thought it would be cool to use the 'S' on Ace's arm while giving Luffy a brother back at the same time. You know what I mean?
And you know, looking back on it, I'd be a lot less interested in Luffy trying to rescue Ace if I was all hot and bothered about another brother.
I'd see little difference between it and Enies Lobby, but I agree, the history adds a lot to the drama and intensity of the arc. I definitely appreciate the flashback for a number of reasons.
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The problem with this is that you are treating it like it's the real world. Oda's creating a story here, so all he has to do is create a situation, any situation, where a hint is dropped, a comment is made, or a thought is had. It's an easy thing for an author; simple foreshadow, that's all. Nothing from Oda this time around though, save a vague comment about 14 chapters prior.
Well sure, yeah, I can totally agree with that, as I had been expecting a flashback since they left Impel Down myself; the problem is Sabo though. While I trust Oda knows what he is doing, I cannot overlook the lack of setup for Sabo. Vague ties like being free and Ace's tat can easily be given any explanation at all, and we would be none the wiser. Hell, I'd have been fine with Sabo's development had he died, like most flashback characters are handled. As a longer term, major-role playing character though, even if he was thought of well ahead of time, the execution comes across poorly and seems unplanned. But I mean, that's just my view, and in the end I don't mind, I'm just explaining why I was thinking the end result could have been a little different.
If he did, fine, but it doesn't really sit right with me. It's sort of like the Gol D. Ace reveal in that it works well with the story, I guess, but it could have been much better had there been more subtle hints dropped or parallels made. As it is, however, while surprising, I didn't find it to be that impressive. What comes after will likely be great, but what came first will always be lacking.
i think the point is putting a person of HIS generation into a position of power within all the great powers of the One Piece universe.
Him as a pirate + pirate crew/buddies.
Coby in the marines.
Sabo in the revolutionaries.
Boa in the shichibukai.I know a lot of people are gunning for boa to join the crew but her village rides on her being a shichibukai and would be more beneficial of luffy to maintain an inside man (lady). Most likely jimbie is the new crew member this arc who will be key in helping them in mermaid island since they had ruined their mermaid rep by wooping arlongs crew. (Even jimbie had a bone to pick originally).
Just my take.
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Maybe he hadn't planned out Sabo at all and just thought it would be cool to use the 'S' on Ace's arm while giving Luffy a brother back at the same time. You know what I mean?
You know what I mean?
I know. You are probably kidding around, right. Right? RIGHT?
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If this were Kubo Tite, we'd be calling ass pull.
Of course, but this isn't Kubo Tite, it's Oda. I've been reading this series for almost ten years now and even the rare occasions where I suspected poor planning turned out to fit in organically. I might be giving Oda too much credit but I absolutely believe that he worked out the major plot points before the first chapter was released. Luffy having two brothers would be one of them.
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And yet, it makes just as much sense without it since neither of them have actually accomplished what they set out to do.
Not really. It's a very normal human habbit to reflect on things every once in a while even if there's still a long way to go. And this situation where Luffy and Ace meet each other after three years while both have made tremendous progress on their quest strikes as a perfect opportunity to do exactly that.
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What exactly is wrong with Ace and Luffy not mentioning Sabo?
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Unnatural conversations for the sake of being vague/not giving away potential plot twists are something that happens very often in One Piece. Ace and Luffy's encounter in Arabasta is a perfect example for this. Ace gives Luffy a vivre card and he doesn't even ask what's so special about it? I'm not saying this kind of vague dialogue is masterful storytelling but it's simply how One Piece works.
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Unnatural conversations for the sake of being vague/not giving away potential plot twists are something that happens very often in One Piece.
Actually it's rather the opposite because Oda hints at things eons in advance. It's the "that's what he was aiming at all the way back then" flair that is a signature of Oda's narrational skills. That's one of the things that makes OP's charm.
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@Sea:
What exactly is wrong with Ace and Luffy not mentioning Sabo?
no idea. ace and luffy in the manga have very little interaction. ace saves luffys butt. meets him on the ship to give him an invite for whitebeards crew. hands him the card and then deals with BW ships before leaving.
Only the anime drew out the interaction which isnt canon.
So i don't get the hissy fit at all.
As for any other plot information not revealed to crew or readers, most of the crews back stories arnt revealed to luffy nor to the rest of the crew. Only brooks is known by all the straw hats. None know of Zoro's and possibly robins depending on how you look at the CP9 arc. (which seems more like robins self recollection rather than long winded story.)
The crew isnt about sob stories. Luffy doesn't care to give them or listen to them if he has a choice. He just wants to have fun.
Actually it's rather the opposite because Oda hints at things eons in advance. It's the "that's what he was aiming at all the way back then" flair that is a signature of Oda's narrational skills. That's one of the things that makes OP's charm.
the only hint of camie/hatchin we got was the cover story. And i had been saying for a while that the revolutionary who saves robin WILL BE SABO. His hair fits so well and he wears a fun hat. Only change is the adult version has a beauty mark on his face. But we have had seen weirder changes. (I.E. Coby)
so its not that oda has'nt hinted him. On the contrary we got it a few months in advance. Just not in a blunt OH YEA YOU MEMER THAT GUY FROM THE PAST kind of way.
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I don't see where I contradicted this.
Wasn't your argument that he wrote the conversation in a way to not give away such a hint? :wassat:
so its not that oda has'nt hinted him. On the contrary we got it a few months in advance. Just not in a blunt OH YEA YOU MEMER THAT GUY FROM THE PAST kind of way.
A few month's in advance is not the same as the usual Oda hinting at things years in advance. That's the signature style I'm talking about. Of course I realize that you can only hint things in such a long time frame if there's actually an opportunity that makes plausible sense, which Luffy's and Ace's meeting at Arabasta actually was.
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What exactly is wrong with Ace and Luffy not mentioning Sabo?
From what I gather it wasn't predictable so it wasn't fair. :ninja:
Regarding 'freedom'.
It needed an explanation.
In fact I made a whole post about how important that line was last year or so since it was a sign of 'motivation' from someone who to that very moment seemed to be motivated by 'fighting strong guys, having fun and seeing cool shit'. It was a big giveaway.
Also, a year ago when Ace was talking to a depressed Luffy (548?549?) I said back then that scene would be important. So it's not something that just popped up.
The only thing missing was a name. The hints that 'something' was there were all there.
Is your problem purely with the execution? If so I can somewhat understand but the only thing missing was a name and a face. We knew something was up, just not that it was a person.
If your problem isn't that, is it Sabo's existence? Because come on now. This is the man who thought up a a skeleton musician related to a big-ass whale almost 10 years before he actually drew him. Do you think he just Sabo out of nowhere? PLEASE tell me it isn't this because I can at least somewhat sympathize if its purely execution.
And for the record, I wouldn't call it an ass-pull if it was Bleach. No bullshit. Naruto maybe. But I have not and never will have the right to criticize Naruto in a formal discussion since I don't read it and would probably have missed something.
Sure, this isn't a, "WOOOOOAH! SO THAT'S WHAT ODA MEANT WHEN HE SAID XXXXXXX.", or, "SO THIS IS WHO HE MEANT A DECADE AGO!", but I was able to see that there were certain elements that were crucial to setting up this story/character. Even though they never gave a name, the events all make sense.
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The crew isnt about sob stories. Luffy doesn't care to give them or listen to them if he has a choice. He just wants to have fun.
Yeah. Luffy didn't bother knowing Nami's past. Why would he bother telling his?
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some actors/character creators believe a persons personality is rooted in their pain and painful experiences.
Based on characters backgrounds i'd say oda is a firm believer in this, at least in regards to motivation. Some peoples stories are more traumatic than others. but they all share a root of pain. Luffy's original back story though showed how he wanted to be a pirate and how he was inspired but he never suffered. Shanks did. So its natural that we needed a painful experience in luffy's past to help shape him. Because up til his desire for freedom and friends he only wanted to be a pirate to be cool and later a promise. With ace's death luffy has suffered an even greater trauma and thus will gain a new motivation upon healing. Not just being free but bringing freedom to others prehapse. For those who desire freedom but lack the wills to do so.
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Luffy never ever talks about his or anyone else's past. He only does when he is explicitly asked about it (i.e. when Shakky asked him about Enies Lobby and even then he was very reluctant). Since the crew never asked him about his family, he has never told them about it.
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Not just being free but bringing freedom to others prehapse. For those who desire freedom but lack the wills to do so.
And then in order to do that Luffy joins the revolutionary.
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A few month's in advance is not the same as the usual Oda hinting at things years in advance.
But it wasn't months, it was at least two years if you don't count the Ace tattoo. No, he did not give a name or shadowy figure, but he had Luffy mention a source of 'motivation' which was basically unheard of. I STILL remember where I was sitting when I read that line because I could not BELIEVE it left his mouth. That should have been a big indication that we were going to learn something more about Luffy. Then when we actually got Sabo, he seemed like more annoying fodder or the standard flackback meatbag. But instead of going down that same road again, Oda gave us yet another twist. Now we're in for a HUUUUUUGE case of dramatic irony and Oda can use that to his (our) advantage in so many ways.
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Okay folks. I've had 24 hours to be an obnoxious braggart prick. Now it's back to just being an obnoxious prick.
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Sure, but I was just saying that this kind of thing happens all the time in One Piece, not that vague conversations made its charm.
What do you mean it happens all the time? One Piece is full of vague hints of that sort.
Sure, this isn't a, "WOOOOOAH! SO THAT'S WHAT ODA MEANT WHEN HE SAID XXXXXXX.", or, "SO THIS IS WHO HE MEANT A DECADE AGO!", but I was able to see that there were certain elements that were crucial to setting up this story/character. Even though they never gave a name, the events all make sense.
I was never arguing that the development doesn't make any sense just that the execution is lacking some flair that make part of OP's charm.
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@Sea:
And then in order to do that Luffy joins the revolutionary.
pirate king would be a better fit really. he's suppose to be the epitome of freedom in luffy's definition.
besides luffy has always been doing it since day one of his priacy. the only typical act of piracy he commited was stealing from the skypie people who were going to offer him more gold than he could carry in the first place lol. which of course is an ironic Publicaly Correct crime.
the only other reference i could think of is fighting the marines. but thats a given since they are considered an evil power with a few good men in their ranks.
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Okay folks. I've had 24 hours to be an obnoxious braggart prick. Now it's back to just being an obnoxious prick.
pirate king would be a better fit really. he's suppose to be the epitome of freedom in luffy's definition.
Being PK can't bring freedom for many peopke. (not as many as the revolution does)
Luffy is selfish.
Like Roger.
;) -
I was never arguing that the development doesn't make any sense just that the execution is lacking some flair that make part of OP's charm.
Alright, that I can understand. For me, someone who actually made a big deal about two of those scenes and was eagerly awaiting an explanation, it had a huge impact. But I can understand your view quite clearly now.
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I was never arguing that the development doesn't make any sense just that the execution is lacking some flair that make part of OP's charm.
I know. But didn't the tattoo also make the charm?
A little detail like that. -
@Sea:
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/4999/assholem.jpg
Being PK can't bring freedom for many peopke.
Luffy is selfish.
Like Roger.
;)The name of WB alone protected any number of islands he claimed. And the fall of WB left them at the mercy of pirates.
So i find your statements groundless since the position of pirate king is above all pirates even of WB's stature.
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But it wasn't months, it was at least two years if you don't count the Ace tattoo. No, he did not give a name or shadowy figure, but he had Luffy mention a source of 'motivation' which was basically unheard of. I STILL remember where I was sitting when I read that line because I could not BELIEVE it left his mouth. That should have been a big indication that we were going to learn something more about Luffy. Then when we actually got Sabo, he seemed like more annoying fodder or the standard flackback meatbag. But instead of going down that same road again, Oda gave us yet another twist. Now we're in for a HUUUUUUGE case of dramatic irony and Oda can use that to his (our) advantage in so many ways.
First of, no offense but could you please start using the names of the people you are quoting? I'm really having a big problem figuring out who you are talking to must of the time so it would come in quite handy for me if you'd be generous engough to do it.:happy:
Now back on topic. My bad for using month's and years. What I rather meant is a shitload of arcs in advance. And two years ago was also still within the makings of this entire rescue arc. That's different from bringing something from one arc into a completely different one. Hope you get what I'm aiming at.
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The name of WB alone protected any number of islands he claimed. And the fall of WB left them at the mercy of pirates.
For how long?
A century?
When the Wg still exists, along with noble thinking and separated social class Ideology?
and:Being PK can't bring freedom for many peopke. (not as many as the revolution does)
Sabo, did Dragon give you the answer? -
@Sea:
I know. But didn't the tattoo also make the charm?
A little detail like that.Not to me at least because the tattoo being a hint at Sabo is a quality it received from the fandom. I'm not denying that the possibility exists that Oda could have meant exactly that. But at the same time it's also valid to think the opposite because I seriously doubt that Oda would want to make such a makabre hint like Ace visibly crossing out the reference at his dead brother. I don't know, it just doesn't sit well with me somehow.
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As far as I understand the only problem people have with Sabo is that his existence was foreshadowed way to subtly for people to see it and thus predict the said existence.
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clearly crossing out the reference towards his dead brother.
I don't know, it just doesn't sit well with me somehow.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/587/19/
I also don't know why Sabo used a flag with a cross out his name.XD
And Ace, is your name Asce?
