@Ryuksgelus:
Where in the story was this portrayed?
I'm assuming this question is referring to my comment that he ran away only? I thought it was obvious. Unless you are suggesting Kaidou killed his entire crew, let him go alive on purpose, and literally kicked him out of the New World…? Moria survived while his crew did not, Moria went from being in the New World (<-- maybe I am assuming this part) to being hidden in the Grand Line (FT), and then Moria spent years creating zombies to do the work for him so he wouldn't have to lose anything or anyone else anymore. (No emotional ties). That would be like Luffy giving up right now and gathering a new crew or moping around or something. Instead Luffy is confident he will not only become stronger and pay Kuma, Kizaru, and Sentoumaru back but he will also find his crew (and save his brother). That's the opposite of what Moria did. Luffy is moving forward, not backward.
@Ryuksgelus:
The two times he did get involved he played around with Luffy and then the crew.
But this is part of his character. A flaw in the character is still a flaw. And we all know – for plot purposes -- Luffy wasn't fighting him seriously at the beginning. He never does. I don't see how this information would change any other Luffy vs. Moria matchup.
@Ryuksgelus:
Obviously base Oz is stronger in general than Moria but are you honestly suggesting that if Moria absorbed 100 shadows he couldn't own Oz as badly as Luffy?
Not at all. Well, not really. I mean Moria would still have to manage to snap Oz's spine, freeze him, or otherwise immobilize him (as he was pretty much invincible). Anyway, I was just suggesting that Oz was a permanent solution, whereas "100 shadows" is a temporary solution that – when done -- wouldn't be available anymore. I suppose Moria could still keep and anchor those shadows again before they escape back to their owners (who knows), but it is still a prerequisite and conditional way to fight. It requires him to HAVE "powerful" shadows to begin with. That's my whole point. Were it not for his years of saving up powerful shadows, he would have had nothing to absorb in the first place. And even then, who is to say Luffy couldn't beat him then? I agree it would be a MUCH harder battle for Luffy, but we saw Moria's "added strength" do little to nothing against Luffy. That was the whole point behind the "Because I'm a Rubberman!!" line. I can't say Luffy would win, but I can't say he would lose either. I think it would be a conditional victory for Moria though. It isn't HIS power, it is a temporary upgrade in power that depends on stolen shadows he may or may not have in any given situation. The war with Whitebeard, for example, will be a battle where he has no shadows to absorb or rely on.
@Ryuksgelus:
I like how you keep mentioning that when that wasn't even my argument. My argument is that […] Moria had put himself at a severe disadvantage and was crippled far more than any other villain in the series, before the final battle even started.
Honestly not sure what you are referring to. But I will answer the "disadvantage" thing, since I mentioned it earlier. It is my view that Moria had all the advantages during the TB arc. I listed my reasoning behind it earlier, so here it is again:
[hide]Location: Thriller Bark was full of traps that were used to seperate, confuse, and disarm the crew. Eliminate those traps and tricks of location and the crew likely wouldn't have been separated and lost their shadows.
Numbers: General Zombie's, Fantastic Four, Oz, Ryuma, Moria, Cindry, Taleran, and Fodder make up numbers greater than "9". They were outnumbered. I didn't say they were outclassed, just outnumbered. Eliminate those numbers and there likely would not have been enough confusion going on for the Strawhats to have lost their shadows.
Plan: First off, Moria had been planning to go back to the New World with his new power. That planning had him pretty much at the final step. So essentially he already had an army ready to be mobilized. When Perona's ghost network found the Strawhats, they made a plan to steal their shadows. They invited them in, caught them off guard, and proceeded to disarm and capture them. This was largely in part to their hidden location and island-like pirate ship, giving them the chance to make a plan that could be executed successfully. That is a huge advantage for Moria, in contrast with the Strawhats going onto an "island" blindly and then running into confusing and impossible situations like zombies and such.
Time/Shadows: Had Moria not managed to steal the Strawhats shadows and acquired a huge amount of powerful zombies and shadows prior to their arrival, there would not have been nearly the same amount of a challenge. Of course, this is really just a combination of "Numbers" and "Plan", but it is still a factor that gave Moria an advantage.[/hide]@Ryuksgelus:
Thats pretty much the full potential of his shadow ability. Hardly seems conditional.
I understand, and I agree that with a large number of enemies to fight and steal shadows from, Moria could be a tank! It IS a conditional part of his ability though, and it cannot be compared to Luffy. In order for Moria to use that technique he has to ALREADY have shadows to absorb. The only reason he had so many shadows in the first place was because he had years of planning for something else in it's final stages. In any other fight – again, like the upcoming war with Whitebeard -- Moria won't have that advantage. No shadows to absorb unless he takes them during battle. (In which case he has to manage to take them first).
@Ryuksgelus:
You came to this conclusion how?
I'm just saying that I think it is FAIR to assume that Luffy COULD HAVE still won if you took out those other advantages that Moria had accumulated over the years. COULD HAVE. Not definitely would have. I am just saying that at that point in time Luffy's strength, skill, and resolve were worthy of praise, and should have been enough to deal with Moria's abilities. Sure, it would have been a tough battle, but I believe Luffy could have come out on top. I mean Lucci sure as hell beat the tar out of Luffy, but Luffy still beat the tar out of Lucci as well and then came out on top. The same could apply for Moria. So, yes, I think Luffy beat two Shichibukai despite the odds, and I think he earned those wins. It wasn't luck, chance, or anything else.