Naruto Discussion III [Redux]

Archibald Desmond Deus

He hasn't? He's been shown crying at the loss of his parents and having Juugo-like murderous tendencies. Usual cookie-cutter Naruto garbage.

Crying at the loss of his parents doesn't bother me since he's just a little kid, and all of the murderous tendencies he's shown is killing someone who was trying to steal form them. True, the foundation has been set for another piss-poor Naruto villain, but he could still turn out interesting. As long as he doesn't tread down the beaten path 'I'm evil because I had a bad childhood' I can stand him whining a bit.

Aldrich

Oh yeah and I forgot that he probably follows the orange haired kid ideals either because he feels guilty after killing him or as a mark of respect after he's been killed. Awesome!

FireFistAce 0

So, anyway, I can easily see the series ending with Naruto standing next to Kakashi as he's made 6th Hokage, and being acknowledged as the future 7th. Meanwhile, we see Sakura visiting a grave that simply says, "To the memory of a once proud but now forgotten clan". And then it ends.

That's really all it needs.

Geg

@Aldrich:

He hasn't? He's been shown crying at the loss of his parents and having Juugo-like murderous tendencies. Usual cookie-cutter Naruto garbage.

Wow, a little kid who cried when his parents died. What a fucking pussy.

Aldrich

Or he could have been cold enough to not give a shit.

Or he could have been something else than a fucking orphan for a change.

Or he could have been more like the orange haired kid.

But nooooo. Sad past something something so that's why he's mean something something.

FireFistAce 0

At least he didn't take the Kabuto route and become so gay for someone that not only does he betray everyone else for him, but actually consumes his flesh and contracts cancer for him. If Pain eats Jiraiya's body after killing him this series will become the most ridiculous in manga history ever.

Geg

Meh, that's why I said we should wait til the flashback's over. We could still get something like the other kid cuts out his eyes and has Konan replace his with them because she's a girl and therefore knows medical ninjutsu.

FireFistAce 0

Or that Konan is the real mastermind and Yahiko and Pain are really… PAPER DOLLS.

Pain could be her masterpiece or some crap. Knowing Kishi, I wouldn't put it past him.

Tsuchirinhon

You have to look at the fact that it's a shitty and overused plot aspect, as opposed to whether or not Pain is justified for acting the way he did.

The argument of Poor Writing vs. Character Justification is pointless, since the former focuses on the mechanics of the story, while the latter is under the assumption that it's not a story and more of an analysis of an actual person.

onemoment

@Geg:

Meh, that's why I said we should wait til the flashback's over. We could still get something like the other kid cuts out his eyes and has Konan replace his with them because she's a girl and therefore knows medical ninjutsu.

Yeah, I'd go with this guy. This latest chapter is nothing to get your panties in a bunch over.

Konan seems defeated…but really, is she? Like some other guy said, maybe she just hasn't pulled her "super ultra mega jutsu" out yet. And even if she's defeated, it's fucking Jiraya.

Pein cried when he was what, 6? I don't see a problem with a little kid crying. Also:

@Aldrich:

Or he could have been cold enough to not give a shit.

What, like Itachi? Cliche.

Or he could have been something else than a fucking orphan for a change.

What wrong with orphans? I personally only remember Naruto being orphaned in this series.

Or he could have been more like the orange haired kid.

What, Naruto, the 4th, or that kid that Tsunade liked? Either way, you're suggesting something that's been done at least 3 times already. Cliche.

But nooooo. Sad past something something so that's why he's mean something something.

Well, it depends on how you take it. I guess I'd rather see him being evil and kick ass early on in his life.

But really, this flashback also hasn't unveiled anything conclusive. Wait a chapter, then whine that Kishimoto ruined another character.

mangafan1

Bah… Someone always start the complain and not wait til the future events. Seriously, what's the problem of a villian crying one time when he was a child? Some of you are sick. Anyway, next chapter we'll see if that users are right, or if they will have to keep silent their mouths. Try to talk about the series like mangahelpers forum users do, it's too hard for you? They never complain about stupid things like these. Man, I lost time trying to speak with those guys.

Sincerily, it's a bit retarded. For your fault some users can speak not even one day coolly. Try to discuss this.

Elric

@mangafan1:

Someone always start the complain and not wait til the future events.

It's called experience.

Mr. All Sunday

I think it's choosing one cliche over another, as the shonen genre is pretty much a big bag of cliches. Since Kishimoto likes using the same cliche over and over, the chliche becomes cliched. Or something.

On an entirely different note, Deidara and Kisame are my favorite Akatsuki, and I'd probably like them far better if someone who knows how to handle macho better wrote them.

Tsuchirinhon

You can create a shounen manga without it being cliché. There's a huge difference between archetypes and cliché tactics.

Luffy is a pretty basic archetype, but he's extremely interesting and unique.

Elric

@Kefky:

I can understand the Zetsu love, but I don't get why you guys are cutting Deidara so much slack.

don't know but wasn't his C4 the most devastating attack of the story so far?

he could have wiped out the whole main cast (minus the sharingans) with it and then still self destruct :D

mangafan1

@Elric:

It's called experience.

Eh…no. It's called hipocrisy, but anyway.

Vanessa

When yet another tragic, crybaby kid pops up we kind of know what to expect from it based on what we've seen time and time again. We are usually disappointed with what happens so it's not like we're making up reasons to not like what's happening in the story. So Elric is right in calling it experience.

mangafan1

Then don't read the series and you'll feel better and the others who reads it will be better too. But I know you will continue reading it. Lol at the hipocrisy.

And who said he's another tragic baby? His flashback hasn't ended yet, so you don't know what can happen.

Vanessa

Oh Jesus, not the "if you don't like it, don't read it" crap again.

When did I say i hated "everything" about the series. i personally like some of the characters in this series and i want to see what happens to them. Besides, even if I did hate everything, I couldn't criticize something I've never even read. So shut it on calling people hypocrites when you're the one being a jackass.

mangafan1

@Kidany:

When did I say i hated "everything" about the series.

The interrogation is absent.

Pardone moi. I like some characters too, and I like the story per arcs of course. The only thing that I would like that you understand is that you must wait before judging something, ok?

Well, time to actualize my signature.

Tsuchirinhon

The Internet, a land where only positive criticism is allowed, as anything else makes people snuggle with their tear-stained pillows.

Cap'n Carter

Pardone moi.

I think this is some sort of cue for Aldrich

Kefky

@Elric:

don't know but wasn't his C4 the most devastating attack of the story so far?

he could have wiped out the whole main cast (minus the sharingans) with it and then still self destruct :D

Eh, he ripped off Perfect Cell. Kamikaze attacks are lame.

Le Lawliet

@mangafan1:

Eh…no. It's called hipocrisy, but anyway.

Do you even know what hypocrisy is?

Tsuchirinhon

Yeah, and Perfect Cell ripped off every person that has ever strapped dynamite to themselves.

EXPLOSIONS ARE RESERVED FOR TORIYAMA ONLY

Kefky

@Cyringohn:

Yeah, and Perfect Cell ripped off every person that has ever strapped dynamite to themselves.

EXPLOSIONS ARE RESERVED FOR TORIYAMA ONLY

He got really tall and bloated too.

And Kishimoto rips off dragon ball all the time. Nothing new about this.

Tsuchirinhon

By that logic, so does Oda.

It's kind of hard to "rip off" something when you openly acknowledge that your work has heavy influences from the series you're "stealing from."

Kefky

True enough, but Oda's a lot less shameless. Kishimoto even copied the weight training thing, and Piccolo's techniques from the 22nd boudokai.

Captain Kuro

I always thought Deidara growing fat and exploding was possibly a reference to DB. Deidara also had a scouter looking thing early on if I remember.

Tsuchirinhon

@Kefky:

True enough, but Oda's a lot less shameless. Kishimoto even copied the weight training thing, and Piccolo's techniques from the 22nd boudokai.

Too bad Toriyama didn't invent weight training. It doesn't take a creative genius to think of WEIGHTS SO HEAVY THEY CRACK THE EARTH'S CRUST.

gaara d. lucci

So basically, we're arguing over something that hasn't come to pass yet? About the flashback, how bout we let it finish?And about Konan being defeated, she ain't defeated till she gives up or is knocked out. I'm all for legit bashing, but it's easy to tell when people just wanna whine for little to no reasons.

I will say, at the moment it looks like Pein isn't related to Naruto, which means Kishi's character design was lazy again. But again, the flashback ain't finished so it's not certain yet.

Kefky

@Cyringohn:

Too bad Toriyama didn't invent weight training. It doesn't take a creative genius to think of WEIGHTS SO HEAVY THEY CRACK THE EARTH'S CRUST.

Eh, I don't even care whether Oda does it on purpose or not anyway. My point is that Deidara's kamikaze attack was something lame and original. The end. Back to completely off-topic discussion.

Outlawz

@Kefky:

Eh, I don't even care whether Oda does it on purpose or not anyway. My point is that Deidara's kamikaze attack was something lame and original. The end. Back to completely off-topic discussion.

What? Those words in that order confuse me.

Le Lawliet

@Kefky:

Eh, I don't even care whether Oda does it on purpose or not anyway. My point is that Deidara's kamikaze attack was something lame and original. The end. Back to completely off-topic discussion.

So basically just because Oda does it it's ok but when Kishimoto does it it's suddenly lame?

Tsuchirinhon

It's fine to bust on Kishimoto for some of the shitty stuff he does, but bustin' on him for liking Dragonball is totally silly. Especially something as vague and generic as an BLOWING MYSELF UP.

Kefky

It's lame because it was a kamikaze attack. The fact that it was derivative makes it lamer.

Gear's essentially the kaioken, but it looks cool and has Chibi-Luffy as a consequence, so it's better than C4.

Geg

It's a kamikaze attack and therefore derivative?

tony-kun

He also didn't die from it, so it wasn't really a kamikaze attack.

More like a fatty fetish trap.

Tsuchirinhon

Too bad that boiling anything down to a "power up" or a "kamikaze attack" [or whatever shit you're spouting] will make it seem like a rip off.

COMING BACK TO LIFE IS RIPPING OFF FROM THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE SINCE JESUS DID THAT A LONG TIME AGO

Captain Kuro

@Cyringohn:

COMING BACK TO LIFE IS RIPPING OFF FROM THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE SINCE JESUS DID THAT A LONG TIME AGO

Please mark for spoilers, I haven't finished that book yet. Thanks.

gaara d. lucci

@Kefky:

It's lame because it was a kamikaze attack. The fact that it was derivative makes it lamer.

Gear's essentially the kaioken, but it looks cool and has Chibi-Luffy as a consequence, so it's better than C4.

FireFistAce 0

At least Deidara could have latched onto Sasuke before detonating himself. That way it would've… you know, worked.

Kefky

Btw, Deidara still sucks.

tony-kun

@gaara:

[qimg]http://www.samruby.com/Heroes/MisterFantastic/MrFantasticAd.gif[/qimg]

Don't see how that related to his post at all.

In response to his post:

Why are you linking everything back to DBZ like it's the only original story in existence?

All these comparisons are also stemming from over generalizations.

If you break gear 2 and the explosion down to "kamikaze attack" and "Kaioken's" of course you are going to see similarities because you are ignoring what makes them unique.

gaara d. lucci

@tony-kun: Think real hard. What is Mr. Fantastic doing in that pic?

Kefky

@tony-kun:

Why are you linking everything back to DBZ like it's the only original story in existence?

I'm not linking everything to DBZ. I only mentioned gear in the first place because the other dude with the needlessly complicated name brought up the fact that Oda steals from DBZ too in the first place.

@tony-kun:

If you break gear 2 and the explosion down to "kamikaze attack" and "Kaioken's" of course you are going to see similarities because you are ignoring what makes them unique.

If I was ignoring what makes them unique, I wouldn't have said that gear's cool. But even if they have that, I can still think one of them's cool and the other's lame! The end! :ninja:

Le Lawliet

@Kefky:

I'm not linking everything to DBZ. I only mentioned gear in the first place because the other dude with the needlessly complicated name brought up the fact that Oda steals from DBZ too in the first place.

Except he wasn't. he was saying that the thing you were blaming Naruto for is fairly similarly used in One Piece, and that you were making exceptions by fanboyism or otherwise.

If I was ignoring what makes them unique, I wouldn't have said that gear's cool. But even if they have that, I can still think one of them's cool and the other's lame! The end! :ninja:

you're still avoiding that you're still making exceptions to One Piece

tony-kun

@gaara:

@tony-kun: Think real hard. What is Mr. Fantastic doing in that pic?

Yes, but he didn't say luffy's rubber abilities were original.

So it doesn't really make a point. or sense really.

I'm not linking everything to DBZ. I only mentioned gear in the first place because the other dude with the needlessly complicated name brought up the fact that Oda steals from DBZ too in the first place.

Stop calling it stealing. Taking inspiration is no theft.

If it was, Toriyama would be stealing from the Chinese concept of Chi, and numerous other chinese myths he based dragonball of of.

If I was ignoring what makes them unique, I wouldn't have said that gear's cool. But even if they have that, I can still think one of them's cool and the other's lame! The end!

…......k.

gaara d. lucci

@tony-kun: Sigh, wrong again. I'm saying Kefky is reaching with his accusations. Jesus Christ

Kefky

@Le:

Except he wasn't. he was saying that the thing you were blaming Naruto for is fairly similarly used in One Piece, and that you were making exceptions by fanboyism or otherwise.

you're still avoiding that you're still making exceptions to One Piece

He brought up one piece first. I said Kishimoto's a lot less shameless when he steals from dragon ball, as a joke, just like I said that Deidara stole C4 from perfect cell, AS A JOKE. I actually don't care whether Kishimoto steals from Toriyama or not, specially since he probably does it as a homage. There are plenty of reason why one piece is superior to naruto that don't involve dragon ball theft, just like there are plenty of reasons why c4 sucks that don't involve dragon ball theft.

There, happy?