thing is though that the marine headquarters has already been relocated. One reason why Oda might have changed the location might be to have a different setting for another epic war somewhere in the future. Certainly since it is now in the New World, which is of course the place where the strawhats are heading.
On the other hand I would find it more epic if the strawhats show the world how the WG does things and how they are wrong, with enslaving people, for some reason hiding the void century (which I think will greatly influence our views concerning the WG), open racism etc. and that people in the world might be seriously dismayed by it. So much even that they might take up arms in different parts of the world to get rid of the WG or just don't want to be under their protection any more, baring the name of "island belonging to the WG". This would be a truely great battle with the whole world in chaos and battle against the WG, trying to free themselves from their clutches. Then again, how would someone like Coby handle such a thing? I guess, ultimately, it would mean a reformation of the WG under the control of a great leader, destroying all mishaps that have been caused by the WG.
We already have seen that someone like Smoker, Tashigi and Coby are realizing that the justice the WG handles isn't always the right one.
Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread
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A second war would be kind of resemble the WorldWarII, where all races in the OP-universe will in the end go against the system of the WG.
But its not said, that the collapse of the WG has to be another war…even when i would like to see another war with the ancient weapons involved.
But in my opinion the last fight will be against BB and his crew and not another war.(a second war may be before that) -
It's really hard to predict because there has to be a final fight against Black Beard, things in the world have to change so there has to be some kind of downfall of the WG or a major change, the revolutionaries haven't gotten into play yet. Luffy's promised fight with Shanks has to occur at the very end, determining if he is worthy of keeping the straw hat (although this fight shouldn't be taken seriously I guess but it has to be after he becomes PK in my opinion). All these things I see happening at the end and even more. Namely the Shichibukai. All of them will come back into the story somehow, including the new ones, regardless if it is Buggy or not and then there are still 3 yonkou (or 2, considering BB will probably become one) and I'd like to see at least 1 of the Supernova becoming a worthy opponent at the end of the story and rather Law than Kid
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I really doubt the final battle WB spoke of will simply be a remix of Marineford with the SH and Allies in place of WB vs. Marines and many WG officers instead of Shichibukai.
And the alternative would be? Are you suggesting that the pirates and marines will be on the same side for some reason?
What is the OP Character Tournament 2011 exactly? (I hope it's ok to ask that in this thread)
Try checking the link you posted. It's exactly what it sounds like. You can view the last two character tournaments in the archives if you want.
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And the alternative would be? Are you suggesting that the pirates and marines will be on the same side for some reason?
That there is more to the destruction of the Ancient Civilization than the forebears of the WG winning a war and now selfishly wanting to keep their power. So we'll be introduced to new threats as we learn more abut the Void Century. Whatever information is discovered at Raftel will surely shake up the entire world including Marine loyalties. Why would gray and light marines and WG agents continue supporting the WG if what they thought they were protecting for centuries wasn't true and possibly terrible?
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@Don:
A second war would be kind of resemble the WorldWarII, where all races in the OP-universe will in the end go against the system of the WG.
But its not said, that the collapse of the WG has to be another war…even when i would like to see another war with the ancient weapons involved.
But in my opinion the last fight will be against BB and his crew and not another war.(a second war may be before that)Blackbeard could be involved in this second war as well. And I would personally like that.
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That there is more to the destruction of the Ancient Civilization than the forebears of the WG winning a war and now selfishly wanting to keep their power. So we'll be introduced to new threats as we learn more abut the Void Century. Whatever information is discovered at Raftel will surely shake up the entire world including Marine loyalties. Why would gray and light marines and WG agents continue supporting the WG if what they thought they were protecting for centuries wasn't true and possibly terrible?
All I have to do is look at the might of the army that Luffy will already have supporting him in the series ending war. It already likely includes powerful groups like the Kuja Pirates, the remnants of the Whitebeard Pirates, and the Revolutionary army, along with powerful individuals such as Rayleigh. Luffy's likely still going to gain the support of Fishman Island, Elbaf, Big Mam, Bronze, etc.
The only way the final war is interesting is if there's adequate competition for that ridiculous force. It seems to me that fragmenting the Marines would be counterproductive to that goal. Even the full force of the WG and Marines as they stand now probably isn't enough against a massive collection of powerful groups like that. The new threats you mention such as an ancient weapon will be required for them to even the odds even without losing half their force.
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Blackbeard could be involved in this second war as well. And I would personally like that.
A possibility for sure, but my view on that subject is, that Luffy would only provoke such a second war AFTER he became PK.
To become PK he and his crew has to fight BBs crew. (each crewmember will go against one of the other crew…thats also why i think the best way to tell how many mor nakama we will get is to see if BB gets another crewmember\\but so far iam not sure if we could count Stronger as an crewmember on its own..so BBs crew would have 11 crewmembers and the SHs would still need two. Also the possibility is there, that BB gets another crewmember in the NW, which i think is rly low, because he was already planning out all his moves and so i guess he gathered at ID all the guys he had in his mind)The war would be after that clash of BB and Luffy, because only then Luffy knows what the ancient kingdom tried to tell those who followed the poneglyphs.
So when the main fight is out of the way we get another huge war, where Luffy has no real enemie (with BB defeated there are still strong guys around, but the main fight would be over)which seems kind of odd to me.So far i see that second war just more like an epilogue, where Luffy will fulfill his destiny and the world will be in peace after the WG is gone.
It wouldn`t be the climax, just a necessity to finish the story.But it could be that this war already started before Luffy will be PK and so the climax of the war will be the fight against BB..after that Luffy will fulfill his destiny and stop that huge war and bring somehow peace to the world, by convincing the two fighting sites after understanding the true meaning of the rioponeglyph.
By that he would make "One Piece" out of those two fighting sites. -
Also, last time, the WG and marines let the enemy come to them by luring them but if the strawhats find One Piece they would have reason to go to them, which would put them at a bit of a disadvantage because lowly tactics like at Marineford will be a lot harder to pull off and when that time comes the SH's can prepare themselves for their arrival.
@ Dofla
It bothers me too but if you look at it in another way it doesn't have to be an epilogue. . .
Blackbeard is well on his way towards One Piece when Luffy arrives while being chased by many marines somewhere at the end of the New World, the marines + Shichibukai get halted by some allies of Luffy who came to his aid because they believe in him and know he is in trouble. The SH's go in pursuit of Blackbeard while their allies hold the marines back and after some time they arrive at Raftel where they fight the Blackbeard pirates to obtain One Piece.
OR
The SH's obtain One Piece and turn back. On the way back though BB and his crew await them to steal One Piece from them (perhaps they couldn't get to it because they don't know how to read the glyphs) but their are also a shit load of marines and all Shichibukai there to prevent a new pirate king being born and to prevent info from the Void century leaking, causing an all out war. -
The SH's obtain One Piece and turn back. On the way back though BB and his crew await them to steal One Piece from them (perhaps they couldn't get to it because they don't know how to read the glyphs) but their are also a shit load of marines and all Shichibukai there to prevent a new pirate king being born and to prevent info from the Void century leaking, causing an all out war.
Could be just me, but it would really bother me if the SH's 'obtain' One Piece before they defeated the BB Pirates. Just wouldn't seem right.
Also once again @ Urouge - I understand your point of the Marines needing everyone of their soldiers to compete against the large force that is going to support Luffy. However I highly doubt Marines such as Coby, Smoker or even Garp would fight FOR the Marines after their 'evil' history being revealed. Only scenario I could see that happening is perhaps the SH's declaring war against the WG claiming they will reveal their dark history and it was basically a fight to stop Luffy to revealing everything. But then you would assume he would tell Garp and Coby about the dark history throughout it anyway :/
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What about Coby's declaration of how he's going to become an admiral in order to fight Luffy?
Are you saying that he's just going to change his mind?
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No, I am sure he will be an Admiral. I ain't expecting the whole concept of Marines to be destroyed in this war, I am expecting the 'evil' within the WG to be destroyed. That could be anything from the control the 5 elders have, the injustice the tenryuubito get away with it. I am sure there will be way more changes, maybe the revolutionariness taking over? Whatever the case, Coby will be an Admiral, but for the righteous Marines. Thats what I believe anyway, another way it would work is Coby does in fact help Luffy in that war to take down 'evil' then has a 'friendly' battle against him at the end, kind of cheesy but hey, it happens.
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Sorry to get in the middle of this discussion, but I have a question and did not know where to post (sorry for the inconvenience).
Did Fisher Tiger marked Koala with the sun symbol ?
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@ Captain Ugly - yes he did.
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Ow ! Thanks.
So, she´s technically "part of " the Sun Pirates (the only human) ?When AP used to be good:
NEVER FORGET !!
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All I have to do is look at the might of the army that Luffy will already have supporting him in the series ending war. It already likely includes powerful groups like the Kuja Pirates, the remnants of the Whitebeard Pirates, and the Revolutionary army, along with powerful individuals such as Rayleigh. Luffy's likely still going to gain the support of Fishman Island, Elbaf, Big Mam, Bronze, etc.
Who is Bronze? I can not recall coming across the name O.o I agree with the rest although Big Mam could still go either way Saving her Daughter vs Destroying her candy production line.
Ow ! Thanks.
So, she´s technically "part of " the Sun Pirates (the only human) ?I think more she is no longer branded a slave - the Sun Pirates are known to be Mer-races so explaining that mark might be eaiser then the slave one. Although I'm not sure if he used the exact mark of the Sun Pirates - it's a little too hard to see it 100% clearly.
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Bronze was third in command in Roger's crew. The name was revealed in the Green Databook.
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Bronze was third in command in Roger's crew. The name was revealed in the Green Databook.
I don't remember seeing that:wassat:
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Bronze was third in command in Roger's crew. The name was revealed in the Green Databook.
I hope we see that guy. He looked pretty badass in chapter 0.
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All I have to do is look at the might of the army that Luffy will already have supporting him in the series ending war. It already likely includes powerful groups like the Kuja Pirates, the remnants of the Whitebeard Pirates, and the Revolutionary army, along with powerful individuals such as Rayleigh. Luffy's likely still going to gain the support of Fishman Island, Elbaf, Big Mam, Bronze, etc.
The only way the final war is interesting is if there's adequate competition for that ridiculous force. It seems to me that fragmenting the Marines would be counterproductive to that goal. Even the full force of the WG and Marines as they stand now probably isn't enough against a massive collection of powerful groups like that. The new threats you mention such as an ancient weapon will be required for them to even the odds even without losing half their force.
Didn't say anything about ancient weapons, obviously they'll play their part. I'm saying I don't think the final battle will simply be the WG vs. SH Alliance but involve another party that may or may not be connected to the WG. Clover's speech only implied the WG was the "enemy" who destroyed the ancient civilization. I almost expect to discover all the 20 Kings did was fill a power vacuum not destroy the Ancient civilization themselves. Kinda avoided my questions(though don't think purposely) about why would Marines continue supporting a regime with something extremely ugly or world threatening behind it? Think FMAB, why would good soldiers continue supporting King Bradley if they knew everything about his intentions and true loyalties?
Really don't see the logic in the secret of Raftel doing nothing more than confirming to the OP world what the readers already know; that the WG does bad things to stay in power.
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Didn't say anything about ancient weapons, obviously they'll play their part. I'm saying I don't think the final battle will simply be the WG vs. SH Alliance but involve another party that may or may not be connected to the WG. Clover's speech only implied the WG was the "enemy" who destroyed the ancient civilization. I almost expect to discover all the 20 Kings did was fill a power vacuum not destroy the Ancient civilization themselves. Kinda avoided my questions(though don't think purposely) about why would Marines continue supporting a regime with something extremely ugly or world threatening behind it? Think FMAB, why would good soldiers continue supporting King Bradley if they knew everything about his intentions and true loyalties?
Really don't see the logic in the secret of Raftel doing nothing more than confirming to the OP world what the readers already know; that the WG does bad things to stay in power.
Well, let's take a look as this phantom third party. I've always been under the opinion that the WG might be preventing a force that's even more evil than the nobles, though I admittedly have never gone any farther with that theory. If such a power existed, though, then the "good" marines would have plenty of reason to continue fighting with the marines/WG in order to attempt to stop said power. It certainly wouldn't make sense for those good marines to team up with this even more evil entity. And factioning against the World Government seems counterproductive in such a scenario.
The other option is that this third party is good instead of evil. But in such a case they'd be yet another ally to Luffy, which returns to the point in my previous post.
Your final paragraph sort of contradicts your first.
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Even when we know the WG has many flaws, those are actually the people who try to bring the world together and protect people for pirates.(who are normally a threat and are seen by society to live the opposite side the WG does offer you)
They have reasons why they act sometimes the way they do,even when we as a third person judge it as brutal and cold heartet.
They have the ideology that sacrificing 10 people is good as long as you save by that 100.(as we saw in Ohara)
By that it already show how they classify the value of a human being.
(Fishman) and pirates are less worth than other people..and by that thinking its just logical that higher beings have to exist(in the form of the celestrial dragons, who exploit their status as those who maintained that world order and for taht have to be treated specially ) By creating a world under one flag, they made clear that everyone under this flag will be protected..and the rest isnt worth to be protected/can be destroyed as soon as they could be a threat.(Like we see also in our society, where everyone who doesnt follow our rules is\could be automatically a villain of our order) Most marines sure are just totally behind the ideology that you have to protect people from others who are a dangerous for those who want freedom. By that its just a logical conclusion to fight those who are against/are not standing behind that world freedom for the sake of the majority. -
So receiving a bat mail….could mean Shichibukai status.
gasps
BUGGY!!!....BUGGY SAMA!!!
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Why is the world government ruled by people (Gorousei) who most likely are not Tenryubito?
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Well, let's take a look as this phantom third party. I've always been under the opinion that the WG might be preventing a force that's even more evil than the nobles, though I admittedly have never gone any farther with that theory. If such a power existed, though, then the "good" marines would have plenty of reason to continue fighting with the marines/WG in order to attempt to stop said power. It certainly wouldn't make sense for those good marines to team up with this even more evil entity. And factioning against the World Government seems counterproductive in such a scenario.
The other option is that this third party is good instead of evil. But in such a case they'd be yet another ally to Luffy, which returns to the point in my previous post.
Your final paragraph sort of contradicts your first.
No it doesn't. I'm saying Raftel secret will explain why the WG do so much to stay in power not simply reinforce the fact that they do do bad things to stay in power, making that info known to the general population. One Piece will be something that either persuades or forces everybody to rethink allegiances and what they fight for. I think the only marines and WG operatives who continue fighting against the SH will be those who simply misunderstand the message(since Rayleigh said different conclusions can be made) not necessarily Absolute Justice types.
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Why is the world government ruled by people (Gorousei) who most likely are not Tenryubito?
because, however great the tenryubito think they are, they are not fit to rule because they are just spoiled brats with no moral what so ever. They are descendants of the kings that formed what later became known as the world government. They are royalty. The blood they have alone makes them noble and that has nothing to do with skill while running an organization like the WG surely does. My guess is that, through time, this evolved to the state the WG is in. The kings and their descendants and family kept being admired while they left the organizing to people with intellect that they trusted. It is like a monarchy. The kings have no actual power anymore but they are noble and of "higher" stature than common folks because of their heritage while the actual work gets done by ministers and parliament but in the One Piece world those nobles look like they have changed to being monsters although that was not uncommon in colonial times where european kings ruled over countries in Africa and found those people inferior so they enslaved (or sold) them and stole the resources from their land, killing them wasn't uncommon either in those days nor was keeping them illiterate.
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So receiving a bat mail….could mean Shichibukai status.
gasps
BUGGY!!!....BUGGY SAMA!!!
It can also be a new and more efficient way to deliver unpaid tax notifications.
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isn't pirate treasure tax free?
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Tenryubito don't care about politics or world affairs; others do so and the most capable(Garousei) take the responsibility onto themselves.
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So, the Tenryubito don't have direct governmental authority unless it's granted by the Gorosei? Or vice versa?
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I think the tenryubito don't care about whatever authority they could have as long as they can lead their sorry little spoiled lifes in Mariejois
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Well, let's take a look as this phantom third party. I've always been under the opinion that the WG might be preventing a force that's even more evil than the nobles, though I admittedly have never gone any farther with that theory. If such a power existed, though, then the "good" marines would have plenty of reason to continue fighting with the marines/WG in order to attempt to stop said power. It certainly wouldn't make sense for those good marines to team up with this even more evil entity. And factioning against the World Government seems counterproductive in such a scenario.
The other option is that this third party is good instead of evil. But in such a case they'd be yet another ally to Luffy, which returns to the point in my previous post.
Your final paragraph sort of contradicts your first.
I still don't think you have answered the questions addressed to you. Why would the 'good' marines such as Coby / Smoker / Garp fight after the great evil tale of the WG is revealed etc. You seem to just state that because the WG will need them to make it even to go against the allies of the SH's. That is rather weak I'd say - they will fight so the forces are balanced to make it exciting :/ As for your 3rd party theory, that seems kind of baseless at the moment and like you said, thats why you haven't mentioned that yet.
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No it doesn't. I'm saying Raftel secret will explain why the WG do so much to stay in power not simply reinforce the fact that they do do bad things to stay in power, making that info known to the general population. One Piece will be something that either persuades or forces everybody to rethink allegiances and what they fight for. I think the only marines and WG operatives who continue fighting against the SH will be those who simply misunderstand the message(since Rayleigh said different conclusions can be made) not necessarily Absolute Justice types.
Yes, it does. You're saying Raftel will justify the World Government's actions, basically. Then you're saying this justification will make several Marines oppose them? Doesn't make sense.
I still don't think you have answered the questions addressed to you. Why would the 'good' marines such as Coby / Smoker / Garp fight after the great evil tale of the WG is revealed etc. You seem to just state that because the WG will need them to make it even to go against the allies of the SH's. That is rather weak I'd say - they will fight so the forces are balanced to make it exciting :/ As for your 3rd party theory, that seems kind of baseless at the moment and like you said, thats why you haven't mentioned that yet.
I did answer the question, so I don't know what you're on about. Without a third party they're needed for the plot to keep it interesting, and the reasoning behind it is purely a result of necessity and I won't pretend to be able to guess the plot over 10 years in advance. With a third party, well, I just addressed it in that quote you posted.
There are no other options besides having a third party or not having one.
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No it doesn't. I'm saying Raftel secret will explain why the WG do so much to stay in power not simply reinforce the fact that they do do bad things to stay in power, making that info known to the general population. One Piece will be something that either persuades or forces everybody to rethink allegiances and what they fight for. I think the only marines and WG operatives who continue fighting against the SH will be those who simply misunderstand the message(since Rayleigh said different conclusions can be made) not necessarily Absolute Justice types.
lol did you just say doo doo
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Back in Sabaody why didn't Kidd one shot the pacifista that he and his crew encountered? I find it hard to believe that it didn't contain any magnetisable metal..
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It could be that at first he didn't realize that the Pacifista was a Pacifista. Minus the beams coming from his mouth there's no real reason to think that the Pacifistas were cyborgs.
The metal from Pacifistas could also be a special non magnetic metal but given the fight wasn't shown these are just assumptions after all.
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No way they aren't magnetic because Oda wouldn't disappoint us by not showing us a scene of NW Kid tossing around multiple Pacifista's like rag-dolls. Like you said he wouldn't know they were cyborgs and even if he did they are probably strong enough to resist being pulled by SA Kidd.
Yes, it does. You're saying Raftel will justify the World Government's actions, basically. Then you're saying this justification will make several Marines oppose them? Doesn't make sense.
I'm rereading my posts trying to figure out where I lost you and just can't see it. The WG obviously has a justification for their actions. The SH interpretation of Raftel's secret will logically prove that justification wrong. If the justification is wrong and does more harm than good then no good marines will continue supporting the WG. Of course Raftel's secret has to be that world shattering in the first place. The secret not tearing apart many individuals long held views, like Sengoku or even the Garousei, is what I find illogical.
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I'm rereading my posts trying to figure out where I lost you and just can't see it. The WG obviously has a justification for their actions. The SH interpretation of Raftel's secret will logically prove that justification wrong. If the justification is wrong and does more harm than good then no good marines will continue supporting the WG. Of course Raftel's secret has to be that world shattering in the first place. The secret not tearing apart many individuals long held views is what I find illogical.
I guess I am confused. Isn't the repression of this mysterious evil third power a good thing? Their existence should only reinforce the idea of "absolute justice" which most marines buy into wholeheartedly.
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Depends on the nature of the threat that we can't begin to guess. Nothing unique about a storyline where they find out their(WG) actions have actually been helping the real baddies not repressing them; either directly or indirectly by keeping all the world's most powerful forces fractured.
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I don't think it is as simple as that. Many marines actually started their carriers wanting to uphold justice in a world filled with pirates. This is what the WG/Marines do and many a pirate is indeed evil (just look at Kid's crew for instance). They might even end up doing nothing else but that in their lives and they would have served their purpose so the WG/marines aren't bad at all when you look at it that way. There are however some questionable things going on like the slavery and all that but if you are a marine that is kept in the dark about it than that wouldn't matter for said marine. Also, upbringing is something of great importance. If you are brought up or taught that Fishmen / Merfolk / mermaids and people that don't belong to the WG are criminals that deserve the worst you might even except slavery. Not so long ago something like that went on in our own history (eg. colonian suppression and World War II (mass hysteria in Germany depraving people from the sense of what is right and what is wrong)).
Even when marines find out about the Void Century, they might still believe that an organization like the WG/marines should exist to make the world a safer place for everyone and heck, I even actually agree with this. It just shouldn't be based upon the foundations that it started from. Someone like Smoker or Coby, who have already been shown to question some methods of absolute justice might just change this after finding out and even the revolutionaries could form a solution, depending on how honorable their methods actually are. -
why didn't shanks use the king's disposition to kill the lord of the coast? then he can save luffy and not lose his arm!
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I don't think you can kill with haoshoku haki.. well he could have knocked it out, but I'm pretty sure Shanks' first priority was saving Luffy's life and everything happened really fast that's why he jumped in
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@Hespia:
why didn't shanks use the king's disposition to kill the lord of the coast? then he can save luffy and not lose his arm!
Keep in mind that was ten years ago and he probably developed his haki in that time. At the time he probably only had enough to scare it away if he was looking it directly in the eyes if he concentrated.
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This post is deleted!
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Hey guys. I have two quick questions about the Enies Lobby arc (no spoilers, please.)
I'm basically confused about one thing. I understand they have the blueprint to pluton, and want to use Franky to build it. And by doing so, they will use it to put an end to the pirate age.
How is Nico Robin related to this? They said they needed Franky to build it, but Robin to put it into action or something. What does that mean? Isn't it as simple as building it and using it?
My second question, how does it put an end to the pirate age? I know it's an extremely powerful weapon. But, will they just destroy pirate ships only? If not, wouldn't they have to destroy every island to get rid of all pirates, meaning killing basically everyone, not just pirates?
Edit: And yes, I understand they still want Robin because she's wanted from her knowledge of the poneglyphs, but they also need her for pluton which doesn't really make sense.
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You're question should be here http://www.apforums.net/showthread.php?t=14152 but i'll answer anyway.
Anyway as long as Nico Robin was out there someone could build another version of Pluton, so they wanted to secure Robin in order that wouldn't happen.
Well the idea of making Pluton is more then just having it destroy pirate ships. It's the idea of having an extremely powerfull vessel to invoke fear into the pirates so they would be scared of the WG and they could use it to possibly defeat the Yonkou as well and eliminating any possible threat. Although it's kind of impossible at this point to say how strong Pluton really is but i'm sure they could use it to have an advantage.
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I can't wait to see the ancient weapons in action.
xP
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Actually… Robin just knows the location of an already existing pluton. Franky has the blueprints which could be used to build a brand new one!!
About the whole how to end pirate age... you will know soon enough...
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Robin is also very dangerous to the world government in general because she is the only living person with the ability to unveil the secrets of the void century and re-awaken the other ancient weapons. There was a reason they put such a high bounty on a child. She embodies the spirit of her dead comrades, the fellow archeologists of Ohara. Even if the WG had Pluton under their control they would still want Robin.
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The questions should be answered well enough.
We know that Franky burned the blueprints, but i always thought that he sure looked at them often enough to at least ebing able to reconstruct the major parts.
Guess that could come in handy later when we will see some real AW in action.
