Just a guys opinion.
For the record, I love long movies.
life is too short
This phrase never makes sense to me. Is there anything in his lifetime that's going to be longer than his life?
The official Dark Knight thread
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while a number of those taking him to task articulated the thought that he was deliberately being a contrarian just to attract attention.
Mission Complete.
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So, here's how I'm feeling this movie.
! I've seen it three times now and I want to see it again. Ledger's Joker is just the definitive villain. Crazy and intelligent while enjoying life without getting too emotional over any one thing. Plus, he toys with people just because he can. I loved his little moments and ticks that really express his psychosis. Joker has always been my favorite Batman villain and Ledger's portrayal will always be my favorite version. He made this movie.
! Batman's voice bugged the hell out of me. I understand he had to alter it so as to not be connected with his other self but that was a bit much. And every time he said the word 'good' I cracked up. It sounded like he was wearing swimming goggles that covered his nose; all stuffed up. I really enjoyed his action scenes over his talking scenes though I guess that's just what Batman's all about. I hope we get to see a more manipulative Batman in later versions. Bruce Wayne on the other hand I thought was spot on. Ego centric with a hint of narcissism. Fits the billionaire stereotype nicely.
! I loved Alfred and Gordon. They really fit how I've always pictured them. And Gordon's whole plot? How he basically sacrificed himself for the greater good? Nice. Alfred is doing a wonderful fatherly figure role. And his hits on Wayne's social life never fail to amuse.
! Two-face. I never really knew much about him but I think his evolution in this was very well depicted; especially since it was pretty subtle. I think he was a bit underplayed and I do kind of hope he'll be in the next one though I doubt he will. Though I do enjoy the scars. Very true to the original and pretty plausible I think.
! Two characters I noticed. One is the detective that always followed Gordon and was the one guarding the Joker in the holding cell. He reminded me of the detective that hated Batman in BTAS. Anyone else pick up on that or am I just seeing things? Also, in the funeral scene of the Commissioner there is a character seated behind and to the left (viewer's left) of the podium. He was kind of fat with a dark mustache and a tan jacket. I think he might have been a creator Batman or some DC big shot. That's just the feel he gave me.
! Did anyone else pick up that cat reference? I think it might be a huge Catwoman lead in. Also, I could easily see the line about Applied Sciences disappearing leading to Poison Ivy.
! Who else loved the flipping eighteen wheeler? I clapped when I first saw it. And the boat scene. I really thought the business man would do it. I really saw him blowing up the other boat.tl;dr I loved Joker, felt Batman was a little off, found Wayne spot on, liked everyone else, didn't really get Two Face, didn't like Rachel.
Possible answer to Greg's question: Maybe there's a scene that was cut due to length where Two Face's fall is more the product of his own action's than Batman's? Because from tackle to dangling off of a piece of wood, there feels like a bit is missing. I think Batman had to choose between saving the boy and saving Harvey as they went over.
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probably. I read some where the movie is over 4 hours…>.>
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Did ya mean Harvey Bullock? Cause thats the only detective from TAS that i can think of. Or Montoya but shes a chick and i dont think she was a detective, but im not quite sure. But anyway he had some similaritys to Bullock, but the guy in TDK was corrupt right ? so thats a major diffrence from the disgusting but generaly honest and wellmeaning slob that is Bullock^^
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yeah i think he meant Bullock because i also thought he was the guy standing next to Gordon did the batsignal
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Did ya mean Harvey Bullock? Cause thats the only detective from TAS that i can think of. Or Montoya but shes a chick and i dont think she was a detective, but im not quite sure. But anyway he had some similaritys to Bullock, but the guy in TDK was corrupt right ? so thats a major diffrence from the disgusting but generaly honest and wellmeaning slob that is Bullock^^
yeah i think he meant Bullock because i also thought he was the guy standing next to Gordon did the batsignal
Yeah, that's the guy. I really think that's him. Not sure though. And Wolfwood, he wasn't the guy that Two Face offed. I thought the same thing but it was some other cop that was barely shown in the movie.
Edit: Looked it up and the guy's name is Detective Stephens. Ah well.
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ah my bad, Have way to much trouble telling the regular policemen of TDK apart, they all look alike
But now that hes been brought up, Hope hes in the next, Bullet for Bullock was one of my fav episodes.
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ah my bad, Have way to much trouble telling the regular policemen of TDK apart, they all look alike
But now that hes been brought up, Hope hes in the next, Bullet for Bullock was one of my fav episodes.
I always did like him a bit. He was a great way of reminding the viewer that Batman was considered a criminal even though he was trying to be a hero.
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Pretty good movie, surely the best movie of the year AND the best superhero movie.
But not better than The Godfather.With the way it ended, the villains who could work in Nolan verse are practically non-existant. Ventriloquist and Scarface are laughable, Catwoman just doesn't work as a main villain or even a secondary villain, KGBeast won't work, nobody gives a shit about Hush, Anarky is V for Vendetta rip-off, Talia just brings in cliche and I could see Riddler imitating games from the Saw series, because that's the only way he could work here and not make it boring. Oh and nobody will touch on Poison Ivy or Mr. Freeze in the next twenty years.
Mad Hatter is interesting but pretty risky. If it goes wrong, he's just another Joker. And I don't think his pedophile side can be worked into a PG-13 movie…and this is kinda fucked up, I would like to know who would want to work for him.
However, Penguin could work very well. Sure, they can give his alias some new meaning, but he is one of those choices that won't make my cringe. He deals with weapons and prostitutes(only in some comics, though), he could become the new criminal boss in Gotham. This way, he could hire Zsasz I don't know about the gun in his umbrella, but he wouldn't need it. Yes, the final fight could be with him, but it must be done so they can meet in hand-to-hand combat only once, because I don't think Batman expects such a short chubby guy to be so good in judo. This little surprise could make it an interesting fight, if Batman is little weakened. And yes, Philip Seymour Hoffman is the best choice.
However, even if I like him, Penguin himself can't drag the movie campaing like the Joker did. For this, there is the role of a second villain.
Two-Face kinda defeats the purpose of TDK's ending. Eckhart rules, but Harvey better stays dead.
So who could work?
I can imagine Black Mask as Penguin's goon, who eliminates anyone who crosses his boss. Not very charismatic, but Nolan could make him interesting. And his ruthlesness may work. Sure, his ways to kill are simplistic compared to Joker's plans, yet effective.Are there any other people who can fill this role?
Bane could work. Yeah, no venom, but he can go without it. For example, some kind of drug that he would inject before fights so that he could not feel any pain or something like that. Great martial arts expert, they just have to give him brain this time.
Or they could use a guy who's not a Batman villain, but a guy who is an interesting character AND showed Batsy who is the boss everytime they met in a fight. I'm talking about Deathstroke. He is a Teen Titans villain...still he met with Batman so many times that I think he could work.
....or they could just close the series with The Dark Knight and give it to another director resulting in another reboot.
Eh, I must pardon my english, I don't know if this whole thing makes sense.
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@The:
Ventriloquist and Scarface are laughable, Catwoman just doesn't work as a main villain or even a secondary villain
Black Mask doesn't work as a bodyguard working underneath Penguin at least not after what I read up on the character.
@The:
I could see Riddler imitating games from the Saw series, because that's the only way he could work here and not make it boring.
Don't think The Riddler is that sadistic
@The:
Oh and nobody will touch on Poison Ivy or Mr. Freeze in the next twenty years.
Just because Uma Thurman & Arnold Schwarzenegger by way of Joel Schumacher screwed up the characters doesn't mean they wouldn't touch them.
@The:
Bane could work. Yeah, no venom, but he can go without it. For example, some kind of drug that he would inject before fights so that he could not feel any pain or something like that. Great martial arts expert, they just have to give him brain this time.
That's kinda of dumb if Bane doesn't have the ability to increase his strength through Venom or some realistic alternative then there's no point in putting him in.
@The:
….or they could just close the series with The Dark Knight and give it to another director resulting in another reboot.
Too early for a reboot not to mention the fact that the Dark Knight wasn't a commercial & critical failure like Batman & Robin
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I think the Riddler could not work well with the Nolan universe and especially Penguin.
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Yeah, you got some points, however…
Ra's Al Ghul is not Henri Ducard. In the comics, they are completely different characters. Yet are merged into one person in BB. So where's the problem with Black Mask?
In the movie, The Joker and Ra's Al Ghul didn't have Joker venom or Lazarus Pits, yet they could go without them. Joker didn't have his acid shooting flower or thatbuzzer, yet he could work without it. It wasn't his power that established Bane as one of Batman's most known enemies, it was his inteligence.
And you are absolutely right about The Riddler. He isn't that sadistic. But what else could make his deeds villainous and less...boring? He just wouldn't work in the movie.
In the end, it's all about the portrayal. Maybe we will be all wrong, Nolan could go for someone totally unexpected. If they can make somebody like Ventriloquist work in a realistic verse like the current Batman movies, they deserve some applause.
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@The:
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So where's the problem with Black Mask?He shouldn't be playing second banana especially not to penguin.
@The:
it was his inteligence.
From what I read on IGN that only worked for Knightfall.
@The:
And you are absolutely right about The Riddler. He isn't that sadistic. But what else could make his deeds villainous and less…boring? He just wouldn't work in the movie.
It depends on how they write him
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@The:
I would like to know who would want to work for him.
When the villains main power is mind controll i doubt it would matter much if they wanted to work for him or not
As for henchman type villains, There is of course like i mentioned killer croc,Bane,Deadshot,Clayface,Firefly, and if the batman villains are also welcome Ragdoll, and Temblor. And most of them are fairly realistic, well cept for Clayface of course. And in the big boss seat i would like to suggest Hugo Strange to, Prehaps not the biggest box office draw, but a good villain non the less.
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I would love it if they put the Mad Hatter in the movie. He's my second favorite character. I think he would work out really well in the series.
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Ya know for SOME reason, this movie felt like it was based off Jeph Loeb's Batman: The Long Halloween…which is odd considering the whole Jeph Loeb thing.
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I almost forgot about one villain.
Victor Zsasz. in BB, he wasn't very used….well, since he is still on loose, he could be used. I mean, in ceomics, this guy can kill while tied up....with his pinky.
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Almost certainly fake, but: DUN DUN DUN~
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~Stargazer~, ~Distance~ original stories.
3DS Friend Code: 2234-8294-8917
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that poster is pretty cool actually
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Cool poster, but I would think that's it's a wee bit early for them to release anything like that.
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the brush of the question signal makes it obviously fake
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Yeah, the hand looks really fake, as does the superimposed question mark scribble.
It still looks cool though.
~Stargazer~, ~Distance~ original stories.
3DS Friend Code: 2234-8294-8917
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The number 1 reason Riddler would be a poor choice:
We just spent an entire movie watching a man try to figure out who Batman was.
Now if they take another angle? Yeah ok, that's cool, but….at the heart of it....isn't part of what makes Riddler tick his desire to know who Batman is? We just saw Joker go batty trying to do so.
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Almost certainly fake, but: DUN DUN DUN~
! [qimg]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/STUAV0%7E1.TUF/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg[/qimg][qimg]http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa229/zx-02/1218725597153.jpg[/qimg]
Dark Knight Returns sounds a bit corny.
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I honestly think ANY villain could work if they write it correctly. They can make their own versions of them, just like with the Joker.
It's all in the writing and innovation. I would personally LOVE to see scarface, I would die a happy man.
And the penguin is a must.
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I think the Riddler could work fine. But the Penguin … I'am not so sure.
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The dapper and ultra-civilized Penguin of BTAS would work, not the slimy freakshow that Burton gave us. Penguin's role has always been as a major mover of the underground crime syndicate, which already has a huge presence in the Nolan-verse, so Penguin could fit in quite nicely.
The number 1 reason Riddler would be a poor choice:
We just spent an entire movie watching a man try to figure out who Batman was.
Now if they take another angle? Yeah ok, that's cool, but….at the heart of it....isn't part of what makes Riddler tick his desire to know who Batman is? We just saw Joker go batty trying to do so.
I thought what made him tick was his OCD over tricks and riddles and his insatiable thirst to implement them wherever possible?
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All right, perhaps someone can help me with something here. I've seen Dark Knight twice, but there's this one scene that has me stumped. It starts when Gordan and Ramirez go to the building where two people Harvey and Dent are (believed to have been Harvey Dent) who have been murdered. Batman is already there and Ramirez blames him for their deaths. Then Batman carves out a brick that has bullethole in it and examines the fingerprints on the bullet. Then, back in the "batcave" and shoots four different bricks with a big gun.
I just can't make heads or tails of that whole sequence. I know two innocent people were killed and everything that followed was some kind of plan to find the Joker. But why did the Joker (I assume it was the Joker) kill those guys? Was it a mistake or did he plan to? Why did Ramirez blame Batman? Why did Bruce shoot those four bricks? In fact, where did he get those four bricks in the first place? I thought he cut out only one. Someone please explain?
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My personal speculations about the villains in the third movie:
! Lucius Fox mentions the new body suit wouldn't protect from dogs but from cats. Maybe it also protects from catwomen…?
! The big black guy on the ferry who throws the bomb trigger out of the window also reminds me of someone, especially the branding on his neck. Where have I seen that? On Bane?
! Also, the guy who tried to blackmail Fox about Batman's true identity was called Coleman Reese aka Mister Reese. Mr. Reese -> Misteries -> Enigma -> E. Nygma -> Riddler. That's too perfect to be a coincidence! -
Joker killed two cops. One's first name was Harvey. The other's last name was Dent. They were picked for that reason BUT they were killed because of Joker's promise to kill people until Batman revealed himself. Hence Ramirez blaming Batman.
As for the 4 bricks…..I'm not entirely certain. To get an idea of how the bullet dispersed? He didn't grab them from the scene, he set them up himself.
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! The dude tat threw the bomb trigger… I think he may be Mr.Freeze or whatever his name was.
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Deebo aka Tom Lister, Jr
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Also, the guy who tried to blackmail Fox about Batman's true identity was called Coleman Reese aka Mister Reese. Mr. Reese -> Misteries -> Enigma -> E. Nygma -> Riddler. That's too perfect to be a coincidence!
What would his motivation for learning Batman`s identity be if….he already knew?
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What would his motivation for learning Batman`s identity be if….he already knew?
I'm not saying Coleman Reese is the Riddler, but maybe the pun on the word "mysteries" could be an appeal for the real Riddler to come into action - maybe he's going to kill Reese so he can't spoil Batman's identity. After all, a riddle with a solution the entire city knows is no riddle anymore. Sounds Riddler-ish to me.
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Joker killed two cops. One's first name was Harvey. The other's last name was Dent. They were picked for that reason BUT they were killed because of Joker's promise to kill people until Batman revealed himself. Hence Ramirez blaming Batman.
As for the 4 bricks…..I'm not entirely certain. To get an idea of how the bullet dispersed? He didn't grab them from the scene, he set them up himself.
Thanks Greg.
16 Thanks
And the lamb lies down on Broadway
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My personal speculations about the villains in the third movie:
! Also, the guy who tried to blackmail Fox about Batman's true identity was called Coleman Reese aka Mister Reese. Mr. Reese -> Misteries -> Enigma -> E. Nygma -> Riddler. That's too perfect to be a coincidence!
I think someone already made that theory?
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maybe he's going to kill Reese so he can't spoil Batman's identity.
Ok, I see what you mean now, but it seems they tied a bow around that part of the story when Bruce saved his life. Bruce and he exchange a very important glance at the accident scene where Bruce gives a subtle but strong nod that basically says, "You know what I did right? Keep your fuckin' mouth shut.", and he seems to acknowledge that. I was glad they handled it that way.
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Also, the guy who tried to blackmail Fox about Batman's true identity was called Coleman Reese aka Mister Reese. Mr. Reese -> Misteries -> Enigma -> E. Nygma -> Riddler. That's too perfect to be a coincidence!
That's a interesting theory.
And I finally read the Killing Joke, which this movie was slightly based on. Brilliant, I bought a copy.
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The whole sub plot with this Reese guy felt like wasted potential. The guy got some screentime and attention so I figured he would be more important but instead he was just quickly dealt with and that's it. I'm not saying I didn't like the sub plot. I did. I just… there could be more to him.
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I think ultimately it lead to yet another chance for the Joker to try and turn to city on itself. Besides his hilarious confrontation with Fox, when you ask yourself, "What did giving the guy a place on the credits do?" It totally allowed Joker to make the city go batshit insane.
Sure, he was probably gonna pull the hospital bust one way or another, but what better way to do it than place an otherwise innocent guy at the center of a controversy that held the lives of hundreds in jeopardy. And since this is a movie where the main character is really, let's face it, Gotham City itself, I think he provided the perfect excuse to show us how insane the city was willing to get when the 'rules' were broken.
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@Mr.:
And I finally read the Killing Joke, which this movie was slightly based on. Brilliant, I bought a copy.
With the Joker surviving the movies climax, it could finally come to a nearly 1:1 adaption of the story, which I hope for since I read the story (and although both Burton and Nolan affirmed to have used "The Killing Joke" as a major influence, I can't see any intercommunities between the movies and the comic.
I think ultimately it lead to yet another chance for the Joker to try and turn to city on itself. Besides his hilarious confrontation with Fox, when you ask yourself, "What did giving the guy a place on the credits do?" It totally allowed Joker to make the city go batshit insane.
Using the Joker in the next movie would seem like an extraction to me (I hope this kind of saying is used in english and everybody knows what I mean). The Joker is locked up Arkham, and the plot can focus on other characters and villains. And although the Joker is depicted as the Batman's arch-nemesis, I think he doesn't deserve any more movies in the storyline than any other villain.
But I have no problem with using the Joker again in approx. three or four movies. For example, they could adapt the plot of "Mad Love" (where the Joker seduces Harleen Quintzel and she creates her Alter Ego Harley Quinn). But, as I said, soonest in three/four movies and ten to fifteen movies respectively. Any previous use of the Joker would seem like a mere "copy" of TDK and would be kind of disrespectful adverse Ledger's work.Writing such long statements in english sure is harder for me than I though. Meh.
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Using the Joker in the next movie would seem like an extraction to me (I hope this kind of saying is used in english and everybody knows what I mean). The Joker is locked up Arkham, and the plot can focus on other characters and villains. And although the Joker is depicted as the Batman's arch-nemesis, I think he doesn't deserve any more movies in the storyline than any other villain.
I was suggesting anything like that at all.
I was saying, the Joker simply used the character to his advantage in this film.
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I saw this movie this weekend and I must say that before I had been very sceptical… but after few scenes with Joker I must say that I'm going to be suprised if he doesn't get an Oscar nomination for this - absolutely masterpiece and the whole movie also as well. I was kinda suprised also that this movie wasn't "american to the bone" - you know, no Bruce Willis with american flag saying that he has to die for the whole world/city (american anthem in the background), whole nation saluts to him and this kind of shit... in other words 11/10
and for the discussion... Joker wanted to know who Batman really is, but as he said it at some point, without Batman it would be boring, @wolfwood:
since he felt Batman was the only worthy opponent
Joker also admited it during the interrogation.
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I was kinda suprised also that this movie wasn't "american to the bone" - you know, no Bruce Willis with american flag saying that he has to die for the whole world/city (american anthem in the background), whole nation saluts to him and this kind of shit… in other words 11/10
Well the scale isn't quite the same here. I mean we're talking about a fictional city located somewhere in the States. Not the fate of the world or something right? ^_~
It would be kinda lame to bring the idea of a Stars n' Stripes hero into a comic that really isn't about that kind of thing to begin with. I know some arcs in the comic have gone national and global, but at its heart, Batman is a very local, very personal story and the Writers & Director realize that.
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I'd personelly like the opening scene to be one of Falcone's men killing the Joker in his cell.
Johnny Depp would be the only person I'd like to see as the Riddler
Philip Seymore Hoffman as the Penguin
and the big black guy at the end of the movie that throws the detonater out the window is
! Killer Croc (same tatoo as killer croc in the comics and the shit on his face is the skin cancer that soon covers his whole body giving him the croc like appreance.)
I'd also like to see Mr. Freeze being played by Edward Norton. However instead of his wife dying of the shit make his story so that his wife died of the diease and his daughter has has it now and she's on the verge of death. and instead of the suit just let him use like neck coolers instead. Idk, lol.
and did anyone notice the scarecrow escaped prison? he's shown for a brief second in a guards uniform escorting the prisoners on the ferry.
"Wasn't the Internet made for scanlations in the first place?"- Simon Jones
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I'd personelly like the opening scene to be one of Falcone's men killing the Joker in his cell.
Now wouldn't THAT be an interesting route to take! I like it! The question is, what bigger part would it play in the story to have that accomplished other than to tie a bow around a dangling character?
