You guys are forgetting that seastone weakens the DF user.
Blackbread can't punch Smoker with the seastone touching him.
And why doesn't Luffy vs. Ao Kiji count o_O
How Big is the Gap Between "Commodore" & "Admiral"?
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Well yes he can punch him, maybe not at full wpoer but enoguh to move him out of the way, and then when he's bac kto full power gravipwn his ass.
Luffy vs Aokiji does not let you know anything about Aokiji's fighting style, Aokiji wasn't really fighting..
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Well yes he can punch him, maybe not at full wpoer but enoguh to move him out of the way, and then when he's bac kto full power gravipwn his ass.
… No, if seastone touches Blackbeard he losses the power to harm logias. Thus he can not punch Smoker.
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But if Smoker turns into logia the jutte is dropped… or remains stuck in blackbeard if itpireced him deep... either way not good for smoker since if BB overcomes it and gets ahold ofteh jutte.. Smoker got nothing much to do.
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What are you talking about? There are numerous examples of logias going untoucheble while still holding on to things.
Smoker holding on to Luffy while in smoke form.
Crocodile holding Vivi while his arm turn into sand
Ace in his coverstory holding onto a letter while bullets pass right through him.
etc etcWHY would he drop the jutte when he tries to dodge blackbeard?
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But when they do that their arm is still human and not their element.. no?
If not, I'm mistaken, but I sitll think BB can win him. His jutte's overrated
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But when they do that their arm is still human and not their element.. no?
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nah -
K I apologize, my mistake.
I still think BB wins.
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This post is deleted!
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You didn't change my mind.
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If you say so.
[qimg]http://img39.onemanga.com/mangas/00000002/00000169/10.jpg[/qimg]
From what we saw in Enies Lobby, the fact that seastone weakens a User may well have been retconned out of existence in favor of it merely cancelling their ability.
Seastone jutte or not, it's not in Smoker's best interests to get into melee combat with Teach.
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retconned? I've always assumed that Luffy got weaker because his body was permanently changed by his power. activated powers like Robins or Logias wouldn't suffer those effects.
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Logias wouldn't suffer those effects.
Wiper: DO YOU KNOW ABOUT A LITTLE THING
CALLED "SEASTONE", ENER?!!!Ener: {Seastone?! The rock that saps strength from those with Powers…!!!}
Wiper: My shooters have it embedded in them.
You and your Devil Fruit Powers are so weak...Ener: I see... I can hardly move...!!
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Wasn't Waiper holding him down during that conversation? what chapter is that again?
Guess I might have to reevaluate my assumption on that concerning logias if my memory decives me on that point.
In the event that it really does weaken every DF user physically, perhaps the seastone cuffs were coated with something to prevent the draining effect?
I'm not sure if seastone has to touch to prevent DF powers or if only proximity is needed, but we do know that direct contact is needed for the weakening effect. So if the outer layer of the cuffs are iron (or some other metal) there wouldn't be any direct contact. -
Wasn't Waiper holding him down during that conversation? what chapter is that again?
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He was still standing on Zoro's head (lol) when Wiper hopped on and then shakily going down on his knees.
The picture at the right is him saying he can hardly move (Stephen).
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retconned? I've always assumed that Luffy got weaker because his body was permanently changed by his power. activated powers like Robins or Logias wouldn't suffer those effects.
Prior to Enies Lobby, all references to seastone specifically mentioned a weakening effect on the User. During Enies Lobby, we started seeing references to how it shut down the User's ability without any mention of it weakening them (occasionally with references to the sea doing the same thing, which doesn't work because of what we saw in Arlong Park and which cannot be rationalized as being fresh water because of an SBS regarding the effects of immersion on a User). We certainly don't see Robin becoming faint like Ener did and that was only after brief contact with seastone, let alone extended contact like she had.
Even then, we still have an odd situation seeing as how the seastone present in the White Sea clearly did not have a negative effect on Luffy or Robin's ability to use their respective abilities as they use those abilities to rescue Usopp after he falls through the cloud.
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I think it's pretty well the same gap as what is found in a military ranking system in real life. Anywho, go to wiki, it'll tell you :P
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Even then, we still have an odd situation seeing as how the seastone present in the White Sea clearly did not have a negative effect on Luffy or Robin's ability to use their respective abilities as they use those abilities to rescue Usopp after he falls through the cloud.
Funny thing is it affected Chopper and Pierre after Gan Fall's loss against Shura. So it might because Robin activated her ability after Luffy's arm stretched in water(which we've seen can still be done underwater during Arlong Park) past the White White Sea. Since Usopp was already out of it and falling towards the Blue Sea Robin's Hana Hana powers couldn't have been affected by the water.
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Well maybe Enel's just weak physically so he couldn't handle Wiper?
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Hmmm Enel wasn't as restricted as I recalled (I thought Waipers legs locked down his arms too). But even if Enel is wekened he still stands upright despite Waiper. He doesn't fall untill the reject dial hits him.
The dialogue is a bit ambigious imo. at first they only mention that it drains the DF power and then that enels strenght is draining, it could be that he meant his dfpowers was his strenght… but that's really reaching for straws.
I'm not quite ready to drop my theory yet, but I agree that my assumption does have some problems that needs to be worked out and probably isn't the likliest of explanations.
I consider both interperations valid. (that it only took his DF power or that it took both power and physical strenght) -
Wiper's clearly saying "it's draining your DF powers also Enel is still standing if it would've drained his physical strength how could he handle Wiper's weight?
Gorlom I think your theory is still valid
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Err, can we keep to stephen's translation, the one I posted, plzkthx. Your are grasping at straws. Do yourselves a favour and give it up.
The only valid response is what Ubiq posted. We'll just have to wait and see how coming encounters with kairoseki turn out.
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That proves nothing. It absorbs "strength" from those with power. Obviously he means DF power by "power", and going by that logic he'll mean DF strength by "strength".
Also, saying BOTH Enel and his DF are so weak proves nothing. I don't think withot his fruit ENel is a match for Wiper so obviously Wiper will call him weak
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Gorlom I think your theory is still valid
betterbetternomi I'm sorry but I really couldn't care less what you think.
Elric I realize that my theory is extremely weak. I'm not going to argue it anymore, but I still feel that Oda hasn't necissarily retconned anything. There could still be something explaining the seeming different effects of the seastone.Edit: fuckit after reading BBNM's last post I am giving it up. Oda has obviously retconned the effects of seastone/water on Devilfruit users.
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Well, my take on the whole thing is that Robin's I WADDA LIIIVE!!!11 would have been so not cool coming out of a wheelchair
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What's with the attidue Gorlom? Got anything against me ? :X
And what does "retconned" mean?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retcon
Use your internet. Also Gorlom is a meanie.
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Oh he's a meanie? :X
I searched in a dictionary but couldn't find.. I didn't think it's a short way of saying something :PThanks for teh translation :P
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Well maybe Enel's just weak physically so he couldn't handle Wiper?
I doubt that if for other reason than Ener's sheer durability; he rebounded rather easily from most of Luffy's attacks early on and didn't seem to suffer the massive internal injuries that the Reject Dial should have inflicted (well, based on what happened to Giant Jack anyway).
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Nmm you got a point
I can never look at the big picture ^^
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Regarding the seastone cuffs…. maybe they differ in concentration or it matters where the seastone touches the person. Imagine for example how bothersome it would be incase a Giant eats a devil fruit and get's arrested and locked in seastone handcuffs if they would have to carry him all the way to impel down / the ship etc (not saying it is impossible, just that it is most likely highly annoying)
Edit: Before anyone says something regarding the size of the handcuffs they would need for a giant :P It was just an example for the big picture :P -
Well the human slave action people managed to take a sleeping giant to the auction house. And they said it was a pain in the ass.
Yes I know he wasn't sleeping when they carried him. they foudn him sleeping and probably drugged him.
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maybe
sure that's all possible but speculation still won't get us anywhere as long as the manga isn't touching upon the issue. I wonder where the guys of http://onepiece.wikia.com get their info:
The degree of "weakness" induced by the seastone depends on its density and composition; For example, seastone handcuffs robs the prisoner of their abilities, but still allows the prisoner to walk around.
I see, density and composition. Well, if she could provide us with a manga page as proof she would have put it on the wiki already. Isn't that right angel :D
Revision as of 21:13, 29 November 2006 (edit)
Angel Emfrbl (Talk | contribs) -
Admiral
Vice Admiral
Rear Admiral
CommodoreFunny so far in One Piece,a rear admiral is never ever introduced…
ALways vice admiral n captains. -
Interesting that the titel for this topic gets adressed/answered after 4 pages has been filled already.
Do people really think that it hasn't been answered already?
I mean it's right there in the second post of the topic if they would just bother reading/looking at it.
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You're being a meanie again. He remarked that we've yet to see a rear admiral.
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For some reason I'm just in a bad mod lately :sad:.
I apologize to BetterBetternoMi for my harsh words earlier, there really was no need for them.
(btw Elric. could you please turn off invisible? It's really annoying thinking you have gone offline after every post. :sad: )
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Well, he was posting crap.
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Now you're being a meanie O_O
And I already apologized, Iwas mistaken, I thought seastone had less effect
I still believe BB wins Smoker XD
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Of course he would. Smoker could show up in a Gundam and in command of orbital weapons systems and would still lose. As a member of the Blackbread=Endboss camp I'd be stupid to think any different.
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BB beats smoker to the floor, smoker couldn't even beat ace, BB owned ace. if he's so great why'd they put him in the east blue? BTW, good luck getting anywhere near BB with that piece of shit Jutte. Smoker is slow as hell, from what we've seen he can't even use soru. While he's flying BB can just disable his power. and what is this crap that he easily caught buggy while grp couldn't catch the straw hats? Well I guess higuma owns all because he was able to catch luffy no problem. Garp almost certainly knows soru, who else tought coby it? so even if he could him with the jutte, he's already more then capable of fighting without a DF power. Ao Kiji, he more then likely knows soru. So once again, how is smoker gonna hit him with his piece of shit jutte? Ao Kiji can just freeze smoker before he even makes an attack.
If smoker is the strongest like your saying he is, the WG might as well give up, their strongest guy couldn't even beat ace. -
It's not that Idisagree with you bu soem of your points are invalid.
"BB beat Ace, Smorke can't beat Ace => BB beats Smoker" that's stupid. Luffy beat Enel without gears and would lose to Lucci withotu gears. Does that make Lucci stronger than Enel?
Also about the soru thing. Firstly we don't know if he can use soru, second I don't think soru is THAT common among the marines.
I still agree Smoker loses to Aokiji and BB though :P
And yea hElric that's pretty much my reasoning for BB vs Smoker too.
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if he can use soru then why the hell did he not use to catch luffy instead of just running after him.
The difference between Enel, Luffy, Lucci and Smoker, Ace, BB is that Luffy was fighting with Enel's weekness. But yeah even as I was typing I knew the points weren't all that great.
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if he can use soru then why the hell did he not use to catch luffy instead of just running after him.
The difference between Enel, Luffy, Lucci and Smoker, Ace, BB is that Luffy was fighting with Enel's weekness. But yeah even as I was typing I knew the points weren't all that great.
Because then Luffy would have Gear2 against Aokiji.
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I doubt smoker would care or know that the use of soru would give luffy gear 2 against Aokiji. And if he did use soru he would've captured luffy anyway so it doesn't matter. Plus luffy would still loose to Aokiji even with gear 2/3 combo.
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if he can use soru then why the hell did he not use to catch luffy instead of just running after him. (…) And if he did use soru he would've captured luffy anyway so it doesn't matter.
Smoker did capture Luffy. It took him like three seconds.
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whether or not he can capture luffy isn't my point, it's whether or not he can use soru.
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Soru would only slow him down.
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no it wouldn't, where are you getting the information that soru is slower then smoker? I'm not saying you're lying I may have just forgotten that info, but I can't remember it saying that anywhere