Ryuuma's Sword

[Rosé]

@BetterBetterNoMi:

I'd liek proof of that "Mihawk can cut elements"

Once I've been shown this, it's obvious Zoro will be able to, too, and won't need seastone sword.

Mihawk > Shanks.
Shanks= Can cut through elements
Therefore Mihawk can too.
Also, he stood on a whimply coffin-boat while just swinging his sword to cut through Don Kriegs ships, I think thats proof enough.

@ Gorlom,
I think that Zorro might use a seastone sword,
but only to get rid of a great advantage the opponent has.
He's all for a fair fight, not for a
I'm a human fighting with all mah skillz but he's got a df powah+his skillz.

[Gaiyae]

When was it shown that Shanks was able to cut the elements?
And if so , that doesn't always have to mean Mihawk is capable of doing the same even if he is the best swordsman. For now, we don't even know if Mihawk has the same spirit as Shanks has. And why should Zoro learn to cut the elements? he probably doesn't need it to beat Mihawk.

[Rosé]

@Gaiyae:

When was it shown that Shanks was able to cut the elements?
And if so , that doesn't always have to mean Mihawk is capable of doing the same even if he is the best swordsman. For now, we don't even know if Mihawk has the same spirit as Shanks has. And why should Zoro learn to cut the elements? he probably doesn't need it to beat Mihawk.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/434/16-17/
There it was shown.
What has Shanks' swordsman skills got to do with his spirit?
Spirits and fighting abilities are a slightly different thing.
The sky "splitting" as a result of their skill, Shanks' aura wouldn't have any effect whatsoever on Whitebeard.
And, I think it would be quite a bit odd that Mihawk, being the better one, can't cut through elements.
Because that would imply that Shanks has superior techniques, which doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
If one has superior techniques, it's only logical for them to be the better one, if not obvious.
Which, yet again obviously, isn't the case.

Why should Zorro learn how to cut through elements?
For the same reason he learned to cut through Iron, it makes him stronger.
Sorry but having to point out the extremely obvious and your intelligence just totally pissed me off.

[Gaiyae]

Facts based on speculation.. Maybe you should just stop assuming things, and later on hand them down as facts.

@Rosé:

Sorry but having to point out the extremely obvious and your intelligence just totally pissed me off.

And this is the reason why i'm not going to bother responding indept to your post. Because it's seems quite clear you have a superiour inteligence. :getlost:

Yes that was meant as sarcasm

I'm out of here.

[Rosé]

@Gaiyae:

Facts based on speculation.. Maybe you should just stop assuming things, and later on hand them down as facts.

And this is the reason why i'm not going to bother responding indept to your post. Because it's seems quite clear you have a superiour inteligence. :getlost:

Yes that was meant as sarcasm

I'm out of here.

Speculation?
I showed you a manga spreadsheet to support it all, are you blind?
Ever read the manga? Or just stared at pictures?
Right, just because you can't to come up with anything to support your post.
Bye bye.

[Gaiyae]

@Rosé:

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/434/16-17/
There it was shown.

So you call that cutting the elements - You know that could also be cause by the 2 spirits of WB and Shanks clashing into each other? Also Shanks maybe used a swords, but WB seems to wield a spear. So you can't just say for certain that, that can be considered cutting the elements.

What has Shanks' swordsman skills got to do with his spirit?
Spirits and fighting abilities are a slightly different thing.

And you don't think that is speculating? we know way to less, to make statements like that. Or do you actually know Oda, and did he tell you those ability's where slightly different?

The sky "splitting" as a result of their skill, Shanks' aura wouldn't have any effect whatsoever on Whitebeard.

More speculation, because we didn't see how the battle progressed. We don't know enough about the whole aura deal to be sure. > And, I think it would be quite a bit odd that Mihawk, being the better one, can't cut through elements./

To become the greatest swordmaster. You'll need to beat the one that already has that title in a swordman's duel. Zoro doesn't need all of Mihawk skills to beat Mihawk. We see Zoro time and time again, beat swordsman with completely different skills. Another thing is that you seem to point out that Shanks is the weaker one. But how do you know that for sure? Maybe he ate a DF in the meanwhile? I'm not saying that it's the truth. But it is possible. Whitebeard could probably beat Mihawk, but that probably doesn't give him the title of best swordsman.

Because that would imply that Shanks has superior techniques, which doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
If one has superior techniques, it's only logical for them to be the better one, if not obvious.
Which, yet again obviously, isn't the case.

Brooke has superiour Fencing skills then Zoro. That doesn't mean he is a better swordsman overall.

Why should Zorro learn how to cut through elements?
For the same reason he learned to cut through Iron, it makes him stronger.

Yes, then maybe Luffy, Sanji and Nami should learn it to. Because they probably need to become stronger to :getlost: Zoro needed to cut iron because he needed to beat mr 1's ability. And you are implying that Zoro probably will need to beat a logia somewhere down the line… But that doesn't have to be the case.

[Rosé]

@Gaiyae:

So you call that cutting the elements - You know that could also be cause by the 2 spirits of WB and Shanks clashing into each other? Also Shanks maybe used a swords, but WB seems to wield a spear. So you can't just say for certain that, that can be considered cutting the elements.
A spear?
The weapon WB is wielding is a kwan dao.
Which is pretty much a sword with a overly long handle.
Not a spear.
Air is a element.
If you like, we can consider the "heavens" to be aether, either way, they've been hacking away at the elements.

And you don't think that is speculating? we know way to less, to make statements like that. Or do you actually know Oda, and did he tell you those ability's where slightly different?

I don't think Oda has to forcefeed us every single detail.
Did he ever expressly tell us Nami has orange hair?
Nope, but he did show it to us.
Now, you're free to call it a "mixture of red and yellow", instead of orange.
Potato, Potahto.
Things work either way.

More speculation, because we didn't see how the battle progressed. We don't know enough about the whole aura deal to be sure.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/434/05/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/434/06-07/
WB unaffected.

And, I think it would be quite a bit odd that Mihawk, being the better one, can't cut through elements./

To become the greatest swordmaster. You'll need to beat the one that already has that title in a swordman's duel. Zoro doesn't need all of Mihawk skills to beat Mihawk. We see Zoro time and time again, beat swordsman with completely different skills. Another thing is that you seem to point out that Shanks is the weaker one. But how do you know that for sure? Maybe he ate a DF in the meanwhile? I'm not saying that it's the truth. But it is possible. Whitebeard could probably beat Mihawk, but that probably doesn't give him the title of best swordsman.

sigh
I'm not saying they have to be clones.
Being able to cut through certain things, as Oda showed us with Zorro learning how to cut through iron, shows the development of a swordsman.
I honestly don't see anyone being the very best without having mastered that sort of skill. But that is my opinion, yours is obviously different, and only time will show which one of us is 100% right.

Shanks having eaten a DF?
hypocrite.
But yes, it's a possibility.
I can quite vividly recall that it was blatantly stated that before losing his arm, Shanks and Mihawk were almost evenly matched.
Oh, and looking at his flag, I should point out that Shanks used to be at his best using two swords.
So, like Zorro with one sword isn't as strong as Zorro with three, the same should apply to Shanks.
Course he trained in the ten years after, but so did Mihawk.

If you put it that way, maybe WB is weaker then Mihawk?
If WB is that almighty, why isn't the the king of pirates yet?
He may be powerful and all that, but he's on a life support machine.

Brooke has superiour Fencing skills then Zoro. That doesn't mean he is a better swordsman overall.

He does?

Yes, then maybe Luffy, Sanji and Nami should learn it to. Because they probably need to become stronger to :getlost: Zoro needed to cut iron because he needed to beat mr 1's ability. And you are implying that Zoro probably will need to beat a logia somewhere down the line… But that doesn't have to be the case.

No, they're not swordsmen.

He has to beat Kuma, doesn't he?
Cutting through the Nikyu Nikyu no Mi
would require him to summon enough force while slashing above the speed of light.
Don't you think with that sort of power, he wouldn't be able to cut through elements?
Please bear in mind that Kuma is made out of a material much harder then steel.

Aye and, sorry for being rather rude earlier, honest.

[BetterBetterNoMi]

I didn't read the whole arguement, only the first few posts. Rose, your logic has flaws.

First, shanks cutting the sky doesnt mean he can cut elements. Zoro cuts steel - so he can cut diamond too?

Second, the fact Mihawk is a better swordsman and Shanks can cut the leements (let's say he can), does NOT mean Mihawk can cut elements too. Luffy easily owns Enel, yet he can't become invincible right?

Luffy is stronger than Usopp. I wanna see Luffy using Kabuto. I'm pretty sure he'll fail.
Luffy is stronger than Franky, let's see Luffy shooting fire from his mouth?

Zoro is stronger than Hatchan. I wanna see Zoro using 6 swords style. Hilarious lol.

I can go on and on.

[Neomaster121]

@BetterBetterNoMi:

I didn't read the whole arguement, only the first few posts. Rose, your logic has flaws.

First, shanks cutting the sky doesnt mean he can cut elements. Zoro cuts steel - so he can cut diamond too?

Second, the fact Mihawk is a better swordsman and Shanks can cut the leements (let's say he can), does NOT mean Mihawk can cut elements too. Luffy easily owns Enel, yet he can't become invincible right?

Luffy is stronger than Usopp. I wanna see Luffy using Kabuto. I'm pretty sure he'll fail.
Luffy is stronger than Franky, let's see Luffy shooting fire from his mouth?

Zoro is stronger than Hatchan. I wanna see Zoro using 6 swords style. Hilarious lol.

I can go on and on.

1 you shouldn't make judments on arguements you haven't read fully
2 you don't sound smart saying dumb things

did you not understand about wind being an element, in clouds theres water as well. The fact that the two attacking each other with such forces shows that elements could be cut. Im sure its harder to cut through air than it is to cut through ice or fire.

don't try being rude it doesn't make you look smarter and rose i do agree with your statement and i think some people are not superstrong because of it. EG ace. If its the case that logia's can't be dealt with apart from their weakness then ace would be far stronger than he was. He wasn't even the strongest on WB crew apart from BB and WB

and most of the strongest people around don't seem to be logia type except for 1 exception of iceman

[Rosé]

@BetterBetterNoMi:

I didn't read the whole arguement, only the first few posts. Rose, your logic has flaws.

First, shanks cutting the sky doesnt mean he can cut elements. Zoro cuts steel - so he can cut diamond too?

Second, the fact Mihawk is a better swordsman and Shanks can cut the leements (let's say he can), does NOT mean Mihawk can cut elements too. Luffy easily owns Enel, yet he can't become invincible right?

Luffy is stronger than Usopp. I wanna see Luffy using Kabuto. I'm pretty sure he'll fail.
Luffy is stronger than Franky, let's see Luffy shooting fire from his mouth?

Zoro is stronger than Hatchan. I wanna see Zoro using 6 swords style. Hilarious lol.

I can go on and on.

Discussion please.
I'm only human and if you can point out my errors, then I'll be thankful to have learned a new thing.
:happy:

I've already linked it to Gaiyae, Air or Aether, in other words the "heavens" are elements.
Diamonds are much harder then Steel, but I see your point.
But I think mastering how to cut one is the first step towards cutting the other.
This is speculation, but considering the many years Mihawk and Shanks have been famous and training, I'd say that cutting air isn't all they've got.
Note that cutting something intangible should be harder.

You're talking about two DF users, and it's common knowledge that no two identical Df powers exist.
(Even though I'd like to know why Dragon can manipulate thunder like Eneru)
But here, somehow we're talking about two swordsmen, so things aren't that different.
Look, cutting elements or not.
There's gotta be some damn kickass force involved.
Now if Shanks has this force and Mihawk doesn't…dudududum.
What happens?

Again, you're talking waaay different abilities here!

Oh and about the six sword style.
Where on earth did I say that the more swords you have, the stronger you are?
I'm saying that Zorro is at his best using the techniques and methods he's used to.
Now what is he used to?
Three swords.
Hatchan wouldn't be used to using just one sword, because he trained with six.
Shanks spent most of his life (slight speculation, but the flag backs it up) using twin swords while Mihawk uses one.
Losing his arm, Shanks has to start getting used to one sword, while Mihawk carries on training with one.
Dudududum.

*squee~
I just noticed this is my first OP discussion since I joined!
:happy:

EDIT:
@Neo,
No, it's fine, I was rather haughty back there ^^;
I think BB is stronger then WB, seeing how he gave WB a wound, "that ached every time he sees Shanks".

[smith]

But why do we asume that the heaven was cut, it just split, eh ?

If I put my hand under running water then I won't cut it, I just redirect and split it.

[Neomaster121]

@smith:

But why do we asume that the heaven was cut, it just split, eh ?

If I put my hand under running water then I won't cut it, I just redirect and split it.

cutting is the separation of a physical object, or a portion of a physical object, into two portions, through the application of an acutely directed force

cutting and splitting is pretty much the same thing if i split paper i'm also cutting it at the same time am i not

putting your hand in water isn't the same your just forcing the water to go in a different direction than straight down your not atcually spliting it

[Rosé]

@smith:

But why do we asume that the heaven was cut, it just split, eh ?

If I put my hand under running water then I won't cut it, I just redirect and split it.

Either way, they were standing at ocean level, but the sky kilometers above them split.
That, requires insane power.
Definitely enough to cut through any other element.
I put my hand over fire, it moves to either sides, going up the sides of my finger…did I split it?
No, I redirected it.
But, if you put it that way,
How would they cut elements then?
Air being intangible, I think it was cut, or else we wouldn't be able to see the splitting effect, would we?

[rubanga]

In alabasta, zoro says he could hear his sword and Mr 1's steel breathing, when he cut through it.Maybe this could be the way he eventually cuts through elements if he does. Plus Zoro's flying sword techniques are sort of like cutting through air and so is ryankyuu (not sure about spelling, the rokushiki technique).

[Gaiyae]

@Rosé:

A spear?
The weapon WB is wielding is a kwan dao.
Which is pretty much a sword with a overly long handle.
Not a spear.

A sword? he is the strongest man in the world.. Wouldn't make that him the strongest swordsman to then?

Btw it's not like i can completely disagree on alot of points you bring up. I'm just a bit sceptial before assuming things. But that's just my personality

Ps.
Apology accepted

[BetterBetterNoMi]

Neomaster, if I was rude I'm sorry, I can't find anything in my post beign rude.

Rose, I think I udnerstand what you say. I'll have to disagree again.

Firstly, wedon't know the skies were CUT. We know they SPLIT. There's a difference, as smith stated before me.

Second, I want to say that I'm nto against the idea - it just seems illogical to me. I'm sure if Oda does make them cut elements, there'll be a good enoguh excplanation to satisfy me. It's OP, after all. But if we go by normal logic, elements cannot be cut… only split. I mean, by cutting a huma nbody you cut the cells, and the flesh, by cutting steel you cut the links between it's atoms, but how cna you cut fire? I know you can say "cut the links between it's atoms!" but it just doesn't seem logical.

And about the six sword style thingy, you say superior techniques -> better swordsman. Hatchan's six sword style is superior to Zoro's three sword style. but Zoro is the better swordsman.

[Rosé]

@Gaiyae:

A sword? he is the strongest man in the world.. Wouldn't make that him the strongest swordsman to then?

Btw it's not like i can completely disagree on alot of points you bring up. I'm just a bit sceptial before assuming things. But that's just my personality

Ps.
Apology accepted

I doubt he is, maybe nobody challenged him since the Gol D. Roger days?
Because, if he's so strong, how come he received a wound from BB and had to send Ace to get him back?
From what we see, Black Beard has no wounds from WB or Shanks.
I'm worried.
Plus, didn't you just say yourself that one would have to beat the previous greatest swordsmaster?
WB didn't even pursue his dream, he's just strolling around the new world, wasting his time.
Why should he challenge Mihawk to be the best?
Or maybe by strongest man, they meant physical strength, like being able to lift a island.
Maybe Mihawk is stronger, but only because he has higher agility and other attributes (a df power is not impossible). I'm not making any judgments on this area.

Aye, I gotcha.
Thankyooooh!

[Rosé]

@BetterBetterNoMi:

Neomaster, if I was rude I'm sorry, I can't find anything in my post beign rude.

Rose, I think I udnerstand what you say. I'll have to disagree again.

Firstly, wedon't know the skies were CUT. We know they SPLIT. There's a difference, as smith stated before me.

Second, I want to say that I'm nto against the idea - it just seems illogical to me. I'm sure if Oda does make them cut elements, there'll be a good enoguh excplanation to satisfy me. It's OP, after all. But if we go by normal logic, elements cannot be cut… only split. I mean, by cutting a huma nbody you cut the cells, and the flesh, by cutting steel you cut the links between it's atoms, but how cna you cut fire? I know you can say "cut the links between it's atoms!" but it just doesn't seem logical.

And about the six sword style thingy, you say superior techniques -> better swordsman. Hatchan's six sword style is superior to Zoro's three sword style. but Zoro is the better swordsman.

Maybe it was your tone, dunno.

But as Neo and I stated, splitting and cutting, they're pretty much the same thing.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/split
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=76704&dict=CALD
http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=split
There, and those are a few links!
cutting, splitting, dividing…
Potato, Potahto.
All the same thing.

Sorry, but we don't have any Gomu Gomu people here, and I never said it should make sense in our world.
I'd rather you not shove words in my mouth.
But, despite the OP world being different, human logic still applies there.
The way you're putting things, even if I explained, you would just randomly burst out some other weird stuff.

Well, if we can't cut fire, please explain to me, how did Shanks and WB cut through Aether and Air?

[Miracles]

@Rosé:

I doubt he is, maybe nobody challenged him since the Gol D. Roger days?Because, if he's so strong, how come he received a wound from BB and had to send Ace to get him back?From what we see, Black Beard has no wounds from WB or Shanks.I'm worried.Plus, didn't you just say yourself that one would have to beat the previous greatest swordsmaster?WB didn't even pursue his dream, he's just strolling around the new world, wasting his time.Why should he challenge Mihawk to be the best?Or maybe by strongest man, they meant physical strength, like being able to lift a island.Maybe Mihawk is stronger, but only because he has higher agility and other attributes (a df power is not impossible). I'm not making any judgments on this area.

Aye, I gotcha.Thankyooooh!

Whitebeard didn't recieve a scar from Blackbeard, his wound is from Gold Roger. Whitebeard is said to be the strongest man in the world because he was the only man who tied with the Pirate King. When they say Whitebeard is the strongest man, I am pretty sure they are talking about overall strength.

[Rosé]

@Miracles:

Whitebeard didn't recieve a scar from Blackbeard, his wound is from Gold Roger. Whitebeard is said to be the strongest man in the world because he was the only man who tied with the Pirate King. When they say Whitebeard is the strongest man, I am pretty sure they are talking about overall strength.

That would make sense too.
But you see, BB inflicted that wound on Shanks' face and WB said:
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/434/06-07/
But yeah, it's quite likely that he's talking about Gol. D Roger.

As I've said almost a million times, potato, potahto (now I want some! T^T)
If WB wasn't referring to BB, then that pretty much destroys the whole theory and WB is still the strongest.
Well, actually it just means that they haven't ever fought.

Sure, but look at him.
He's not in prime condition anymore.

[Miracles]

Though Whitebeard has aged and requires tube (liquid) feeding and specialised nurses to care for him, whether it is his spirit or ability, that has never deteoriated! Otherwise he would not be called the World's strongest.

[Rosé]

@Miracles:

Though Whitebeard has aged and requires tube (liquid) feeding and specialised nurses to care for him, whether it is his spirit or ability, that has never deteoriated! Otherwise he would not be called the World's strongest.

His hair is still Brown x3
You're right, but we really shouldn't underestimate Blackbeard.
Either way, anything is possible and him remaining undefeated, or being defeated is both a possibility.

[Miracles]

Yep, Yep, I feel ya!

[Don Quichotte De Flamingo]

@Rosé:

I doubt he is, maybe nobody challenged him since the Gol D. Roger days?

where should i start…hes a yonkou so its unlikely that all the new world pirates would except him in such a position without knowing his strenght also he does rly seem confident in in strength when he wanted to fight against shanks...

Because, if he's so strong, how come he received a wound from BB and had to send Ace to get him back?[[/SIZE]/QUOTE]
as already said this wound isnt from BB and why shouldnt he send his 2nd devision captn for some ex-crew member which was in aces division….dont get their your argument... why should he go personally after every pirate who is a pain for him...hes the strongest man in the world of OP with a massive crew so in my opinion he dont have to have the attitude to handle everything like it is the beginning of his end...also his arrogant chara shows us that he dont rly think that BB will a big problem in future vause he thinks he is way stronger than such "rookies"...

From what we see, Black Beard has no wounds from WB or Shanks.
I'm worried.

you don`t know why they fighted against each other or anything about some scars BB has or nor..maybe on his ass their is some big scar hehe…also look at his teeth...enough damage lol

WB didn't even pursue his dream, he's just strolling around the new world, wasting his time.

what should he do…he cant handle like he wants to cause against 3 other yonkous it would be hard even for him...and i dont think he`s stupid...also we on raftel their must be a mystery or else WB would have get the OP a long time ago...

Or maybe by strongest man, they meant physical strength, like being able to lift a island.

being noted as the strongest man in the world isnt enough…. ace(rly strong chara) thinks that only he could be PK... even shanks is some1 he hasnt any respect to...
was equal to Gol D...the PK:blink:

Maybe Mihawk is stronger, but only because he has higher agility and other attributes

so why isnt he than a yonkou…sure hes a monster who could fight a yonkou(shanks) but we havent seen much of either mihawks fighting skills nor WBs fighting skills...only that he could split the sky ...should be an amazing power..theyre both just called the best sword fighter and the strongest man so far....i also think that WB wont be the last villain for luffy and his dream to be PK but so far he`s one of the biggest forces and he is equal to gol.D so he must be ONE of the strongest in the end and so far no1 showed that he could handle him.....

[Rosé]

@Don:

where should i start…hes a yonkou so its unlikely that all the new world pirates would except him in such a position without knowing his strenght also he does rly seem confident in in strength when he wanted to fight against shanks...

Because, if he's so strong, how come he received a wound from BB and had to send Ace to get him back?[[/SIZE]/QUOTE]
as already said this wound isnt from BB and why shouldnt he send his 2nd devision captn for some ex-crew member which was in aces division….dont get their your argument... why should he go personally after every pirate who is a pain for him...hes the strongest man in the world of OP with a massive crew so in my opinion he dont have to have the attitude to handle everything like it is the beginning of his end...also his arrogant chara shows us that he dont rly think that BB will a big problem in future vause he thinks he is way stronger than such "rookies"...

you don`t know why they fighted against each other or anything about some scars BB has or nor..maybe on his ass their is some big scar hehe...also look at his teeth...enough damage lol

what should he do...he cant handle like he wants to cause against 3 other yonkous it would be hard even for him...and i dont think he`s stupid...also we on raftel their must be a mystery or else WB would have get the OP a long time ago...

being noted as the strongest man in the world isnt enough.... ace(rly strong chara) thinks that only he could be PK... even shanks is some1 he hasnt any respect to...
was equal to Gol D...the PK:blink:

so why isnt he than a yonkou...sure hes a monster who could fight a yonkou(shanks) but we havent seen much of either mihawks fighting skills nor WBs fighting skills...only that he could split the sky ...should be an amazing power..theyre both just called the best sword fighter and the strongest man so far....i also think that WB wont be the last villain for luffy and his dream to be PK but so far he`s one of the biggest forces and he is equal to gol.D so he must be ONE of the strongest in the end and so far no1 showed that he could handle him.....
Oh dear lurd of teh intrawebz, grant me teh str33ngt 2 desaiper dis munb0jumb0.
am3333nzl0l.

Eneru was confident in his strength, that didn't make him any stronger then Luffy.
Who knows?
His strength isn't only his physical, even if he's weak, his Nakama love him like a father and since he's got people like Ace to help him, no wonder he's feared.
Like what Buggy said to Alvida once ace got onto his ship, WB is feared for the many ships he has under his control.

No, it's been said that there is a equal chance of it being from either BB or GDR.
I don't get what you're saying, but as captain of the second division, BB is Ace's responsibility.

Remember those two friends Zorro had?
How the one had scurvy?
How do you know BB hasn't lost his teeth to scurvy?
It's a pirate illness.

BB isn't a yonkou because he's a Shichibukai!
He only just started pirating on his own after stealing the Yami Yami no mi fruit.
Or whatever it was called.
He was equal to GDR.
Seriously, am I the only one seeing the dude becoming senile?

And honestly sorry, but I'm getting a headache from trying to decipher your post…I'm not Nico Robin for shizzle sake!

[BetterBetterNoMi]

Nhm nhm, I'm out of this arguement but I just wanted to point out to you, Rose, that I didn't say you claimed it could happen in our world. I just said that's where my logic comes from :P

[smith]

@Neomaster121:

cutting and splitting is pretty much the same thing if i split paper i'm also cutting it at the same time am i not

If I tear a paper into two halves did I cut it ? I split it (ripped it apart) with force but I did not cut it.

While splitting and cutting may apeare the same to the eye, they are in fact not.

@Rosé:

Either way, they were standing at ocean level, but the sky kilometers above them split. That, requires insane power. Definitely enough to cut through any other element.

It is more like cutting through the bonds that elements have. Severing carbon or hydrogen bonds requiers a lot of energy. It has to be somekinda electrical current or polarized metal or something. Well it reality this is undiscovered terrain mostly. Atleast doing it effectivly.

I'm looking too into this. BUT Clouds =/ Air

[Rosé]

@BetterBetterNoMi:

Nhm nhm, I'm out of this arguement but I just wanted to point out to you, Rose, that I didn't say you claimed it could happen in our world. I just said that's where my logic comes from :P

So does mine, but your logic is confined to the principles of this world, whilst I adjust mine to fit the principles of another world.
Since that is the logical thing to do, which you haven't done, you logic has major flaws.
Dude, I'm being trained to form arguments and use logic.

@Smith,
DidyoucheckthelinksIprovided?
You should.
ONE MOAR TIME,
Potato, Potahto (yeah, I actually had some lyk rite nao)

You exerted a certain amount of force to rip it.
That would probably be Luffy's version of cutting elements.
Regardless, would a little child be able to say, rip cardboard apart?
No.
Stop thinking this world, I don't think we have people here who can throw buildings through the air, do we?
Velocity, gravity…the same laws do not apply on the OPverse.

LOOK AT THE SPREADSHEET.
schw33t lurd j33buz.
The clouds weren't the only things that split!

[smith]

@Rosé:

@Smith,
DidyoucheckthelinksIprovided?
You should.
ONE MOAR TIME,
Potato, Potahto (yeah, I actually had some lyk rite nao) I actually visited those site myself. And they say that they are no the same in essence just used as same thing.

Stop thinking this world, I don't think we have people here who can throw buildings through the air, do we?
Velocity, gravity…the same laws do not apply on the OPverse.

I already stated that I was looking too into it.

LOOK AT THE SPREADSHEET.
schw33t lurd j33buz.
The clouds weren't the only things that split! What else did split ?

….................look up.

[Rosé]

@smith:

….................look up.

What the hell did you just do to my post?!

[smith]

@Rosé:

What the hell did you just do to my post?!

Bold is your text, under bold is my answer.

[Randy1031]

Zoro and a seastone sword

I'm actually waiting for this to happen.

[Rosé]

@smith:

Bold is your text, under bold is my answer.

Well, if your eyes don't work, then I guess you can't read either, so it won't have any point for me to state the obvious, won't there?
:getlost:

[G-Greato]

Oh… Rosé you certainly achieved something.... I disrespect you more than most members of this forum.. and you know I disrespect some people really much.
You certainly must be a girl writing 20 lines and not saying anything...
no damage

[Rosé]

@G-Greato:

Oh… Rosé you certainly achieved something.... I disrespect you more than most members of this forum.. and you know I disrespect some people really much.
You certainly must be a girl writing 20 lines and not saying anything...
no damage

Go stuff some socks in your Y-fronts before trying to act all manly.

[ctarlong910]

Rose, I can cut a man in half, or I can grab his head and his feet and rip him in half, thus splitting him, (I can't actually, I'm pretty week, but in theory someone could) with the same end result, but a completely different method. What I think he's saying is, the sky may not have been split by the blades, some other thing could have done it.

[Rosé]

@ctarlong910:

Rose, I can cut a man in half, or I can grab his head and his feet and rip him in half, thus splitting him, (I can't actually, I'm pretty week, but in theory someone could) with the same end result, but a completely different method. What I think he's saying is, the sky may not have been split by the blades, some other thing could have done it.

Please start with G-Greato?
Just kidding :happy:

Well, if he was saying that, then..
It might well be the force of their impact that caused the sky to split.
But, wouldn't that mean that it happened accidentally?
If so, that shows that Shanks and WB both have more then enough power to cut, split, divide, etcetera, etceteara, elements.

[Gorlom]

@Rosé:

Gorlom,I think that Zorro might use a seastone sword,but only to get rid of a great advantage the opponent has.He's all for a fair fight, not for a_I'm a human fighting with all mah skillz but he's got a df powah+his skillz._

That is your opinion then. I recall him cutting himself versus the acrobat dude in the Buggy arc saying something like "If I can't beat you like this I don't deserve to become the strongest." Granted the acrobat wasn't strong but the point is Zoro doesn't back away from having a disadvantage in a fight.

Also you got to remember most Logias relies on their DF so much that their other skills get dulled… at least that's what Ive understood.
A logia user without is power is imo crippled. So I do not believe Zoro would fight someone like that... It would feel cheap. (Sealing the power imideatly would from a story point of view defeat the point of that enemy having the ability to begin with)

But this is all null because I don't believe the strawhats will ever face 2 logias cooperating or someone with a Logia underling, so the probability that Zoro will ever face a Logia is exceedingly small. And he doesn't need it against anyone else.

[Don Quichotte De Flamingo]

@Rosé:

Oh dear lurd of teh intrawebz, grant me teh str33ngt 2 desaiper dis munb0jumb0.am3333nzl0l.
Eneru was confident in his strength, that didn't make him any stronger then Luffy.
Who knows?
His strength isn't only his physical, even if he's weak, his Nakama love him like a father and since he's got people like Ace to help him, no wonder he's feared.
Like what Buggy said to Alvida once ace got onto his ship, WB is feared for the many ships he has under his control.

No, it's been said that there is a equal chance of it being from either BB or GDR.
I don't get what you're saying, but as captain of the second division, BB is Ace's responsibility.

Remember those two friends Zorro had?
How the one had scurvy?
How do you know BB hasn't lost his teeth to scurvy?
It's a pirate illness.

BB isn't a yonkou because he's a Shichibukai!
He only just started pirating on his own after stealing the Yami Yami no mi fruit.
Or whatever it was called.
He was equal to GDR.
Seriously, am I the only one seeing the dude becoming senile?

And honestly sorry, but I'm getting a headache from trying to decipher your post…I'm not Nico Robin for shizzle sake!

ehh okay you don`t have to decipher my post ….

but you should at least accept facts which are stated in the manga...nothing else i tried to told you...(was in a hurry cause it was Saturday and i had to meet some friends)

what the hell does anything of this had to do with eneru???? you want to make an example?? between eneru and WB are worlds but i think i get your point that you think that just because some1 is confident dont mean that he is rly strong....but anyways just wanted to say that only a retard is that self-confident that he goes against a well-known yonkou like that..but in fact it has to mean in a manga something that WB is called the strongest man on the planet and that he IS one of the yonkou....do you rly think that he hides himself behind some1 like ace orso... just lol,cause than you say that ace is that stupid that he would work for some1 who couldnt even defeat him...so why should ace think that WB will become PK..also why should than shanks(i think you would say shanks is a rly strong chara) be that much careful to avoid a fight?!!
you say BB is ace responsibility....yeah i said that also but why you said than ...

Because, if he's so strong**, ((how come he received a wound from BB))** and had to send Ace to get him back?

((big text we don`t have to talk about))

talking about the teeth-thing…lol was a joke(see the smiley?)just wanted to say that we dont know if only shanks got some scares from him(but nevermind doesnt have anything to do with WB)

and last but not least..
why you talk about BB isnt a yonkou... i was referring to mihawk (above is your quote in my post) and than again...why you think that mihawk is stronger than WB...just because you think (or wish)some1 who looks like your grandfather cant be stronger than the cool sword fighter??

Dude, I'm being trained to form arguments and use logic.

dont know what you want, i mean we should base our arguments on facts which were given by the manga…when you think a old person cant be that strong youre logical ,but when you think about that were talking about a manga you should accept that the logic is that what is written or shown in the manga...believe it or not...but in my opinion you have to read the whole MANGA(not anime) again ...

[notactuallytom]

@Don:

when you think a old person cant be that strong youre logical ,but when you think about that we`re talking about a manga you should accept that the logic is that what is written or shown in the manga…believe it or not...but in my opinion you have to read the whole MANGA(not anime) again ...

I think one piece does abide by the laws of aging somewhat, though. Look at Garp. Sure he's a monster, but he's not as strong as he used to be. He says so himself, also he is no longer an Admiral, only vice admiral.

I think BB will be the one to defeat WB.

[Gorlom]

also he is no longer an Admiral, only vice admiral

Has it been confirmed that Garp ever was an admiral?

[Rosé]

@Gorlom:

That is your opinion then. I recall him cutting himself versus the acrobat dude in the Buggy arc saying something like "If I can't beat you like this I don't deserve to become the strongest." Granted the acrobat wasn't strong but the point is Zoro doesn't back away from having a disadvantage in a fight.

Also you got to remember most Logias relies on their DF so much that their other skills get dulled… at least that's what Ive understood.
A logia user without is power is imo crippled. So I do not believe Zoro would fight someone like that... It would feel cheap. (Sealing the power imideatly would from a story point of view defeat the point of that enemy having the ability to begin with)

But this is all null because I don't believe the strawhats will ever face 2 logias cooperating or someone with a Logia underling, so the probability that Zoro will ever face a Logia is exceedingly small. And he doesn't need it against anyone else.

Wasn't that with those Kuro crew twins?
When Usopp tried to shoot at one of them, but he moved forward and blocked it?
Don't you think he'd need it for Kuma?
I mean, with that cyborg, it's not a disadvantage, it's more like "wtfthatdoodttlypwnstehwurlddatsnotfair".
He cut through Mr. 1 to wound him, he'd most likely try to cancel out the Paw paw powers, I mean, to even land a single hit.
Unless he learns how to cut elements, in which case he'd already have enough speed and power to overcome Kuma's DF.
(Kuma can only block things going at the speed of light).

@Don,
Yeah, I hope I didn't seem rude or anything.
Well, the way you were putting it, it was like "Oh because WB is confident, he's still the strongest".
Which is why I showed Eneru as a example. He considered others below him, but got licked in no time.

Call him the kickasssmexyvampire swordsman please. :wub:
But honestly, read through my posts and you'll see how I came to that conclusion, I'm not going to type it all up again.
Oh yeah and, BB is a Shichibukai now, but I do think that if he wanted to, he'd be a yonkou if he wanted to.
Also, I'd pretty much be scarred if my grampsy looked like WB!
Scary, scary, scary…

Look, I know it's the OPverse, but Oda hasn't entirely twisted the facts of reality.
He even shows WB on a life support machine.
How much more obvious does he have to get?
I'm not saying he's a wimp now.
Just that back in rogers day, he was much stronger and is now older and a bit creaky up in the joints.

[smith]

@Rosé:

Well, if your eyes don't work, then I guess you can't read either, so it won't have any point for me to state the obvious, won't there?
:getlost:

No really, the ONLY thing that split was the clouds. There was some wind and waves but what else DID actually split ? Please educate me…

All I see is an force, maybe created from the impact of two really strong men clashing. This makes some sense but impact force should blast everywhere, while this blast mainly went upwards.

Whatever, please educate me. I don't feel bad when proven wrong.

[Rosé]

@smith:

No really, the ONLY thing that split was the clouds. There was some wind and waves but what else DID actually split ? Please educate me…

All I see is an force, maybe created from the impact of two really strong men clashing. This makes some sense but impact force should blast everywhere, while this blast mainly went upwards.

Whatever, please educate me. I don't feel bad when proven wrong.

For some reason, the way you said that made me go "awww." :happy:
Well, it wasn't only clouds they split, the split the air.
Now, if air is split, then in that empty space, we have a vacuum, which will suck in anything nearby to fill itself.
See how the clouds/heavens/air/whatever are curving inwards?

And yes, I've stated that the sky splitting, was a excessive and waste byproduct of them fighting.
Take a lightbulb for example, the main purpose is to generate light, but not all of the electricity is used for light, but a small portion goes as waste, turning into heat energy.
The same goes here.
Now, considering the above things, wouldn't the fact that their powers, "accidentally" split the heavens mean that they do have the power to split elements whenever they wish?
The answer is yes.

[smith]

@Rosé:

For some reason, the way you said that made me go "awww." :happy:
Well, it wasn't only clouds they split, the split the air.
Now, if air is split, then in that empty space, we have a vacuum, which will suck in anything nearby to fill itself.
See how the clouds/heavens/air/whatever are curving inwards?

Well, I just have to disagree with the curving part, can't see it. But if there is vacum then you could say this is a way to fight Ace. Fire need O2 and would die in vacum. Whatever, we can just wait and see. I don't mind your theory being right as long as the story is as good as it is right now. Although I'm hoping for something else.

And yes, I've stated that the sky splitting, was a excessive and waste byproduct of them fighting.
Take a lightbulb for example, the main purpose is to generate light, but not all of the electricity is used for light, but a small portion goes as waste, turning into heat energy.
The same goes here.
Now, considering the above things, wouldn't the fact that their powers, "accidentally" split the heavens mean that they do have the power to split elements whenever they wish?
The answer is yes. I stopped reading other posts after the BBvsWB started. So if you did state that, the better it is. Atleast we agree on something.

[Rosé]

@smith:

Well, I just have to disagree with the curving part, can't see it. But if there is vacum then you could say this is a way to fight Ace. Fire need O2 and would die in vacum. Whatever, we can just wait and see. I don't mind your theory being right as long as the story is as good as it is right now. Although I'm hoping for something else.
I stopped reading other posts after the BBvsWB started. So if you did state that, the better it is. Atleast we agree on something.

nods
There's also a possibility that the curving his the shape of clouds…
Actually, looking at the previous pages and observing the skies, it was a rather cloudy day.
Well, air being cut, or clouds being cut, either way, the empty space would naturally become a vaccum.
But wow, I didn't think about that bit.
I guess now we have a explanation as to exactly how fire is split?
It's all connected to splitting air, no air, no fire.
And since the splitting happens in a straight line, it's pretty much cutting fire.

Aye I gotcha :happy:
btw, it seems we have the same surname.
Long lost relative?

[Don Quichotte De Flamingo]

kay i live with your last statement to me
but in the end of the story,when luffy is going to be PK their oda must gives as a clue orso how close or above luffy is in his strenght to gol.D roger so that he "earned" rly his title as future pk
and that position fits WB…former main villain for gol.D and even called the strongest(but i agree with you that BB is at the end more likely the main villain) and so a straightedge in how powerful gol.D was...
(but it could rly be that WB is a little weaker than to Gol.D-times but after being defeated he will say it was like fighting with Gol.D...but you clearly owned me.....their a manga rule(at the end it`s shown that the main chara is the strongest) is not broken....:happy:

[Gorlom]

@Rosé:

Wasn't that with those Kuro crew twins?
When Usopp tried to shoot at one of them, but he moved forward and blocked it?
Don't you think he'd need it for Kuma?
I mean, with that cyborg, it's not a disadvantage, it's more like "wtfthatdoodttlypwnstehwurlddatsnotfair".
He cut through Mr. 1 to wound him, he'd most likely try to cancel out the Paw paw powers, I mean, to even land a single hit.
Unless he learns how to cut elements, in which case he'd already have enough speed and power to overcome Kuma's DF.
(Kuma can only block things going at the speed of light).

No, he blocked Usopps shot to prevent him from becoming a target of the crazed cat. What I'm thinking of is when the acrobat in the buggy arc kept kicking him in his wound (that buggy gave him), after which he mocked the acrobats skill with a sword and literally cut himself to get an even bigger disadvantage.

I don't even know where you got that strange info on Kuma or why Zoro would need a seastone sword to land a hit on him. Zoro DID land a hit on him (Sanji too), it's just that they didn't cause any damage because he was a cyborg and they were expecting to hit (relatively) soft flesh and bones.

The only thing we know about Kumas reflecting ability is that he can only reflect things with the pads on the palms of his hands.

Supposedly he can also reflect air at light speed or something but that might as well just be a hyperbole so we don't know if that is fact or not.

[Rosé]

@Gorlom:

No, he blocked Usopps shot to prevent him from becoming a target of the crazed cat. What I'm thinking of is when the acrobat in the buggy arc kept kicking him in his wound (that buggy gave him), after which he mocked the acrobats skill with a sword and literally cut himself to get an even bigger disadvantage.

I don't even know where you got that strange info on Kuma or why Zoro would need a seastone sword to land a hit on him. Zoro DID land a hit on him (Sanji too), it's just that they didn't cause any damage because he was a cyborg and they were expecting to hit (relatively) soft flesh and bones.

The only thing we know about Kumas reflecting ability is that he can only reflect things with the pads on the palms of his hands.

Supposedly he can also reflect air at light speed or something but that might as well just be a hyperbole so we don't know if that is fact or not.

Was this manga or anime?
I've only watched the buggy arc in anime.
The info on Kuma is from wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Devil_Fruits
Which most probably got it from a SBS.
And as in for them hitting him, I've said this before, he's made of a metal tougher then steel.
So far, Zorro has been capable of cutting through steel, buildings, etcetera. But a strange, unknown metal?
He'd better first either, get a sword made out of a metal stronger then diamond, or learn to cut through elements, which is pretty much a must.

[Gorlom]

Manga. but I imagine it should have been in the anime as well.

And you have really twisted what was said on that wikipedia page in your post. how did "up to" turn into "only"?

And wehere does it say he has an inpenetrable defense so that Zoro must first nullify his powers? To me it just looks like you made that up on your own.

Yes Zoro can cut metal. But to do so he must hear its breath. He did not expect Kuma to be made out of metal so did he actually listen for its breath?

Was it ever said Kuma was made out of some other metal then steel? or is that just an assumption?
And can someone explain to me why Zoro would need to be able to cut intangible elements to be able to cut a metal stronger then steel?

A sword made out of something stronger then diamond? guess what? steel counts as stronger in a way… Diamonds are hard but at the same time brittle compared to steel. It is a lot easier to smash a diamond then to scratch it. most likely a sword made out of something harder then diamond will be very brittle.