Deus Ex Machinakama
Nakama >>>>>>> "comrade"
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Deus Ex Machinakama
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:sick:
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Everyone hopped on the nakama bandwagon. ES21, Fairy Tail, Bleach, nakama nakama nakama nakama nakama nakama.
What's wrong with the word "friend?"
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Maybe too "kiddy" for the "tweens"…
_> shot
I like friend/crewmate/mate myself. =D
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@Cap'n:
Seriously, when Ulquiorra was like "YOUR NAKAMA ARE COMING TO SAVE YOU" or whatever to Orhime, I was like …. why wouldn't 'FRIENDS' be fine in that context? It makes much, much more sense than using some goofy alien word.
Yeah, I just read that chapter yesterday and boy did I find it retarded. Everytime somebody else besides K-F uses it I can´t help but get the impression that it is some sort of showcasing how in they are because of the usage of that alien word. It just somehow appears as if people here try by force to create a community where it is cool to use such terms, which is as pathetic like premutere dudes calling their group "superfriends"…Come to think of it, I think I should use superfriends from now on everytime Luffy´s friendship to his crew gets mentioned.^^
@Mr.:
What's wrong with the word "friend?"
Just as kryptonite said it, it´s too "kiddy" for certain people which lies in the usage of it. Youth´s for the most part can´t help but seeing it a kiddy term what still doesn´t mean that the term itself is kiddy. If you compare somebody at the age 16 saying "you are my friend" to somebody at the age of 46 saying the exact same thing, there will be worlds between the two understandings of the exact same word.
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@Cap'n:
Every time Maximum-7 or someone used "nakama," "friend" would've worked just as well, IF NOT BETTER.
Right… remember that time Tatsuki said "Aren't we friends? Aren't we "nakama"?!" Now, if they did what you said, she would have said the exact same thing twice. Now, I don't think Nakama is as important as some people make it seem, and I really don't care wether the term will be used in the DVD subs or not, but I don't see why people complain about it BEING used, either.
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Let me use superfriends a couple of times and it´ll really bite everytime you see it. Such as Luffy saying "Nami, you are my superfriend!" or "Robin is our superfriend!". Or when Nami told Kalifa to not harm Chopper "leave him alone, he´s our superfriend!". Yeah, it hurts just reading it doesn´t it? Perhaps now you understand how we feel when everytime "nakama" is used in a language where the term doesn´t belong to. ;)
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Just as kryptonite said it, it´s too "kiddy" for certain people which lies in the usage of it. Youth´s for the most part can´t help but seeing it a kiddy term what still doesn´t mean that the term itself is kiddy. If you compare somebody at the age 16 saying "you are my friend" to somebody at the age of 46 saying the exact same thing, there will be worlds between the two understandings of the exact same word.
Ivotas, this is not directed at you, but the "some people" you are referring to.
Ahem.
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BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW! CRY MORE MAGGOTS. Anyone who has to indulge in the fantasy that shounen anime/manga was written for adults and that the stories are henceforth more "mature" need to STOP READING ONE PIECE RIGHT NOW AND MAKE THEMSELVES TALLER. It's an outright insulting that people would consider something perfectly fine as "filth" simply because people don't look mature reading it. This delusional lie that anime/manga is an "older kid's" cartoon and not a cartoon itself (intended for children) is just some corrupt psychology people indulge to try and convince themselves they're not enjoying something that should be beneath their stature.
That's elitist and unsatisfactory, folks like that aren't wanted at a community where everyone acknowledges their love of something triumphs over what other people think of it. Of course the love isn't fanatical like at other places, but genuine enough for people to make some sacrifices to enjoy it. Refusing to cross that mental threshold that distinguishes OP from any American kiddie cartoon seperates the "true fan" from the "fake fan" in my eyes.
In sum, people aren't true OP fans if they can't accept OP for what it is, faults or no. They can not like something, but to outright deny it happened or invent some fiction to cope with something people don't like is outrageously childish, ironic for people who want to look "cool, edgy, and mature".
By extension, I think for the people who seem to revere "nakama" because of an alleged context in Japanese are leaning on the foolhardy side of a classical balance. From what I've seen of the language, nakama isn't nearly as revered as OP would have us believe, thus making even the "friends who are close like family" moniker an exaggeration. I see the attatchment to nakama as not merely being out of a respect for the Japanese culture, but a desire to try and build up a unique concept in OP that distinguishes it from Yu-Gi-Oh! and Pokemon with the same "friendship overcomes all!" themes but a lot more negative cultural baggage associated with them (namely, memories of childhood).
I ask, why? Why try to make OP something it's not when it's already better than most? It will never be "greatest", give up on that. But it can still be "great" and doesn't need to be emotionally "deep" or psychologically "DEEP" to prove that. The story is still rather shallow if more developed for a shounen than average and that will never change.
OP doesn't have to be some sophisticated mature series for people to enjoy, I actually take pride in saying I enjoy it as "low-brow" entertainment. Why can't other people be the same? We don't need people who aren't true to themselves and their tastes around here spouting holier-than-thou cultural mechanics gospel and the like.
/rant.
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I couldn´t help but play a little bit around with some manga panels in order to make me (our?) position somewhat understandable…
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!The moment gets ruined by superfriends doesn´t it? That´s exactly the same how some of us cringe when seeing nakama in the same context.
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i like the word Nakama
but Superfriends sounds weird …..lol
:blink: -
and some cringe when they see comrade/crewmate/pal instead…
i guess the fansubbers/scanlators could allways write out which one is most suiteble, but nakama just isnt bothering me in one piece.if you dont like that the fansubbers/scanlators use nakama why not watch/read it by some other group?
(dont luffy and the villains sometimes argue about the importance of nakamas? to me their argument makes more sense if i know they are useing the same word then if one is talking about crewmates/chesspieces and the other about superfriends...)
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if you dont like that the fansubbers/scanlators use nakama why not watch/read it by some other group?
I guess you dind´t follow the discussion. It´s not about K-F´s dicission to use it but about anyone else who copies in because because they think they are expressing somewhat on a deeper level while this clearly is not the case if you´re a little familiar with the situation. Therefore, there´s is no other group that doesn´t use nakama at all.
(dont luffy and the villains sometimes argue about the importance of nakamas? to me their argument makes more sense if i know they are useing the same word then if one is talking about crewmates/chesspieces and the other about superfriends…)
And crewmate certainly doesn´t mean chesspiece to Luffy. Maybe it means chesspiece to Long John Silver but Luffy´s view on the whole pirate concept is an high ideal of adventure, friendship and romance. Therefore his understanding of the term crewmate would be of the same level making it a very fitting counterpart in One Piece since it isn´t your stereotype piratestory.
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The moment gets ruined by superfriends doesn´t it?
Are you kidding? That made reading those pages leagues more enjoyable.
I will now take it upon myself to replace Nakama with superfriend whenever need be.
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i would be more annoyed if Luffy screeamed crewmate then superfriend in your examples ivotas.
crewmate holds no emotional charge for me whatsoever.seriously? theres no group that doesnt use nakama? acuse them of scriptstealing untill they stop! =P
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The moment gets ruined by superfriends doesn´t it?
I'm probably sounding like a retarded n00b for saying this, but this was more hilarious than annoying.
But yeeeaaahhh, the whole discussion "Nakama is the right word!" is pretty pointless. The meaning won't change if you translate it.
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i would be more annoyed if Luffy screeamed crewmate then superfriend in your examples ivotas.
crewmate holds no emotional charge for me whatsoever.Speaking myself crewmate doesn´t hold no emotional charge for me neither but then, same counts for the term pirate. However in One Piece the term pirate gets me from a side it simply doesn´t when I heard it somewhere else and same counts for crewmate in same context. So while I respect your view to be different then mine I´d just like to point out that you might have had a different take on the term if it would have been used from the beginning until now in all the translations.
The term nakama in itself is actually the prime example of how something can emotionally touch you for the simple reason that it should have zero meaning to non-japanese speakers. The entire impact that it has on non-japanese speakers isn´t based on the word itself but on the entire fuzz that gets made around it that´s why the emotional charge is created artificial and not because the term speaks for itself.
seriously? theres no group that doesnt use nakama? acuse them of scriptstealing untill they stop! =P
Well, back when our scanslation group (Rush) existed I fought a hard fight to eradicate nakama and I was successful in the end. However since we´re gone now it´s not like we have nakama-less scripts. :(
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(since i'm doubtful Luffy understands the concept of beeing pirate and jsut sees it as a big adventure, the word "pirate" in OP doesnt hold any charge for me either. i mean comeon, has luffy done any pirateing at all? he did a little bit of treasure hunting in skypiea but thats about it)
true. by itself nakama shouldnt hold any charge. but if i get aproximate meaning in form translations and then see it in context it gets a charge of its own depending on the context.
my love for keeping it in original language if i understand it probably comes from the horrible translations that often are made from english to my language… (movie titles are famous for beeing really corny... batman was translated into the equivalance of "leatherpatch" shivers thankfully we now often keep the english title.) I just think alot is lost in translation. Letting a word (which you know the aproximate meaning of) get its own charge is to me prefereble.the way oda uses the word makes me kinda like haveing it in charged moments in OP scanlations... however the usage on that eyeshield21 page was horrible (wouldnt want it in such tranquil situations in OP either)
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…i mean comeon, has luffy done any pirateing at all? he did a little bit of treasure hunting in skypiea but thats about it)
That´s exactly the point I´m trying to make here. Luffy´s interpretation of a pirate is that of an adventurer of the sea who doesn´t obey anybody. It isn´t necessary to plunder and cause harvest in the One Piece world to be a true pirate. Of course guys like Teach and Buggy do it, but the protagonists (which always set the standard to what a world view should be in a fictional universe) have another take in. And in the Oda-verse this is what determines a real pirate. Therefore Luffy can be considered a real pirate in all his actions.
true. by itself nakama shouldnt hold any charge. but if i get aproximate meaning in form translations and then see it in context it gets a charge of its own depending on the context.
The point is, if it requires english words to understand nakama then the term in itself is obselete because there are proper choiced in english itself. This doesn´t go that much against you directly Gorlom, but in the years I´ve been here I´ve often really witnessed people really say stuff like "only the term nakama made me understand the level of friendship Luffy has with his crew". Sorry, even though if I try it, can´t call this view anything else but retarded if it comes from a non-japanese speaker.
Just imagine the scenario that K-F never would have used nakama (and therefore nobody else would have adapted it) and went with an english term (whatever it might be). Does that mean that then the same people wouldn´t be able to understand the level of friendship because we use friends/crewmates/mates/companions etc? Even if all the actions Luffy has made in order to protect them? There is no plausible logic why the actions and a proper choice of english words shouldn´t be able to get the point across. Its actually as saying that in english a high level of friendship doesn´t exists to begin with and that actually only in the whole wide world the Japanese are the only ones that are aware of that concept. This is utter bullcrack and if you´re honest you know that!
What´s with non-japanese stories? Does it mean that if we are not aware of the term nakama we can´t understand Sam´s level of friendship towards Frodo in Lord of the Rings?
As I said before, there are things that can be left untranslated and things that have to be translated because it is the translators job to do so. Names can be left unchanged. If we can keep Yakuza and Cosa Nostra in the real world then we can keep Shichibukai, Gorosei and Yonkoh in One Piece. However terms that have meaning (like nakama obvioulsy does because you don´t get the point without a translators not) have to be changed if you consider yourself a translator.
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Terek… that was beautiful. I'd love to say more about it, but... my god did that cover everything and then some.
I also fail to see why people have a problem with the fact that words like "crewmate," "shipmate," and "mate" aren't charged words. It's true that their connotations aren't extremely positive or extremely negative or extremely anything, but as far as any of us can tell neither is "nakama." Oda imposes the extreme positive connotation onto the word by his repeated use of its many meanings. If it didn't appear so often, it would be just another word; but because he uses it over and over again, it does hold some value. Why, then, can't this be done with a word like mate? If it was used as a term of endearment, a calling of someone as a friend, calling them an ally, calling them family, as a status aboard a ship, if it was used exclusively for all of these various positive situations, wouldn't the same positive connotation be imposed onto it? I very much enjoy writing, and have learned the hard way (hour-long writer's block over the word choice in a single sentence isn't uncommon in the slightest) that words are all individual tools that must be utilized at the proper times and for the proper situations. Giving up and using a tool from another toolbox to hack your way into the proper meaning is just lazy and rough.
If people don't believe me on the imposed connotation of words, here are some examples:
- For anyone that read 20th Century Boys, the word "Friend" certainly was given an entirely different meaning due to the character with that name's status in the story. Because of how evil he was, the positive word "friend" was often used in a negative manner, a sort of sarcastic manner.
- In One Piece, during Skypeia, the meaning of the word "God" was challenged quite often. God is normally, once again, a very positive word; however, Enel, with his constant referral to his dictatorial self as "God", gave it a very negative tone.
There are plenty of others, and I'd be happy to share them, but I'm fairly sure my point still stands with just these two examples that some people here may have read and that I know of (I don't read many Japanese comics, American is more my thing).
Anyway, in short, if these two examples of extremely positive words can be made into extremely negative words, to say that a neutral word like "crewmate" can't be made into a positive word is idiotic. The word becomes a symbol of the series if used correctly in this way.
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Nicely said COWMAKAZE. It´s the usage of a term itself that determines what it stands for in a certain context and not the word by itself. Otherwise this whole nakama thing would work to begin with.
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A lot of people here seem to be under the impression that nakama can only be translated into a single term throughout the entire translation. I feel that the best course of action would be to, of course, use different translations for different situations. Arlong calls Nami his friend, "Nami, you are my friend!", other characters refer to the Straw Hats as crewmates, etc.
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if you dont like that the fansubbers/scanlators use nakama why not watch/read it by some other group?
The problem is that there aren't any One Piece fansubbers or scanlators who don't use that godforsaken word.
A lot of people here seem to be under the impression that nakama can only be translated into a single term throughout the entire translation. I feel that the best course of action would be to, of course, use different translations for different situations. Arlong calls Nami his friend, "Nami, you are my friend!", other characters refer to the Straw Hats as crewmates, etc.
Exactly. It doesn't have to be translated into a single term. It's always contextual so it should be translated depending on the situation. Like when the stupid subtitles say "Chopper/Franky, become my nakama!" he's basically saying "Chopper/Franky, join my crew!" and thus it should be translated like that. He's not telling Chopper and Franky to suddenly become his friend with a level of friendship that English speakers would never be able to understand. He wants them to join his pirate crew so they can sail around and have adventures and shit.
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What I don't understand is that it's a seriously weeaboo SIN yet it's cool for not only Oda, but virtually all mangaka I've come across to randomly put in words from various languages not only in attack names and character/place names but also randomly in conversation. These words hold different meanings from even close Japanese counterparts, and are used for a different effect. I mean OH GOD THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THAT THEY MAY BE ANNOYING AND FOREIGN TO THE READERS' POOR VIRGIN EARS WHY THE HELL WOULD ANYONE PUT THEM IN?? Maybe that has nothing to do with this thread but to hear people screaming "THOSE K-F RETARDS HAVE INFECTED ANIME FANDOM FOR ALL ETERNITY!" while Foxy talks about wanting "one Monster Burger, please!" it all just seems so twisted to me.
Also see how I used 'mangaka' there in the first paragraph? I don't think I'd ever get flamed for that. Yet I'm white, and an American anime fan no less! I don't speak Japanese! HOLY SHIT! There's a bit of a double-standard there. Hell, if you want to get into it, "manga" is simply comics to Japanese people and "Japanese comics" to others, right? Words like anime, gaijin, doujin, seiyuu, mangaka, 4koma, etc are used over and over in communities like this one without being questioned, not because there's no good counterpart but because it'd be more complicated to use one, and for the fact they have a distinct ring.
Like "the anime Azumanga Daioh is based off of a four-koma" versus "the Japanese animated cartoon Great King AzuJapanese comics is based off of a genre of Japanese comics using four vertical panels, usually including humorous material."
AAH I DUNNO. All I'm saying is that I don't mind it. No I don't want a ton of "onegai ne-chan-sensei! that guy is kawaiibakanekosandesu!" but if I were to see, say, "Mr." in place of "-san" when "-san" would make more sense and would honestly be closer to the original or make more sense, then no I wouldn't want every single word translated into English.
@Cap'n:
Arlong definitely uses "nakama" several times. I distinctly remember his seiyuu say it.
see now carter you know how much I love you
and my Japanese skills are extremely limited
and you MAY have been going for some sort of bizzare sarcasm or something like it i dunno
but wouldn't "voice actor" have worked just as well in that sentence?
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but if I were to see, say, "Mr." in place of "-san" when "-san" would make more sense and would honestly be closer to the original or make more sense, then no I wouldn't want every single word translated into English.
XD; In Media Blaster's translation of "Magic Knights Rayearth", Fuu and her sister refer to each other as "Ms. Fuu/(Sister's name)" because they use the word "san" when talking to each other.
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@The:
Quoted for truth.
I remember someone at the OP panel at Otakon was trying to push FUNimation to leave nakama untranslated in the dub/DVDs. Now THAT is retarded.
I remember giving myself an honest-to-God facepalm then. Ugh….
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What I don't understand is that it's a seriously weeaboo SIN yet it's cool for not only Oda, but virtually all mangaka I've come across to randomly put in words from various languages not only in attack names and character/place names but also randomly in conversation.
Are…. Are you serious?! You're comparing an author stylistically using foreign language words in their own story to Japanese-obssesed kids slipping words from a language they've diefied into sentences where normal, English words would've sufficed?! You actually think there's any comparison at all between Crocodile having an attack called "Desert Spada" because Oda wanted to theme the characters attack names, to some kid selectively not translating a word in a trans/scanlation because he thinks there's meaning to it?!
What part should I ream more? The fact that you're comparing the creator to a translator, or the fact that the motives are so completely different that the very fact that you group them together makes my head explode?
but wouldn't "voice actor" have worked just as well in that sentence?
"Seiyuu" is a commonly used catch-all to differentiate Japanese voice actors from American ones. Not any kind of belief that "seiyuu" has some deep meaning that cannot be conveyed in English. Hence why, when information on an anime character is given, their English VA is listed as "voice actor", while their Japanese VA is listed as "seiyuu". Simple deductive reasoning.
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Ivotas won my heart. I may just have to use "Superfriend" from this day on.
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Same here. If superfriend becomes a nakama-mocking meme, my heart will be warmed…
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Isn't English "dieified" to some extent in Japan? I've read more than once that, for lack of a better word, it's currently "stylish." Don't tell me that there was never a time where the GREAT CREATOR ODA decided to use a word simply because it sounded cool, or he at least believed it would have a different impact on those who spoke his language because it was, well, different.
Wonder if I'm wrong in assuming that some groups choose "nakama" because the mystical Oda himself chose that word for some of the most important scenes, and thus attached an even greater meaning to it within OP?
And you shouldn't criticize translation groups with such vehemency when you yourself are holding one person above eveyone who works hard to bring people fansubs or scanlations. Ever consider that some creative, stylistic imput needs to be done on their part? That they choose the words they think would be best, and would emulate the original work the best? Or would you want the equivalent of babelfish? I mean not to the "Rocket man is to lick the leprosy!" level (anyone else remember that trans?), but without careful word choice… aargh forget it I'm tired. I'm not a "THEY DO IT FOR FREE GUYS WE SHOULD WORSHIP THEM AND NEVER COMPLAIN" kind of person but all of this cancer and retard talk is, well, directed at people who work to provide something free...
It's their prerogative. They think the use of "nakama" is best. You shouldn't verbally degrade groups like K-F simply because you dislike their choice.
Would you really want to read something, though a close English equivalent that non-weeaboos would understand, like "Idiotburg" or "Old man Ice" on subtitles when you can hear, register, and connect the dots when youn could hear "Bakaburg!", and easily understand the original meaning?
"Seiyuu" is a commonly used catch-all to differentiate Japanese voice actors from American ones. Not any kind of belief that "seiyuu" has some deep meaning that cannot be conveyed in English. Hence why, when information on an anime character is given, their English VA is listed as "voice actor", while their Japanese VA is listed as "seiyuu". Simple deductive reasoning.
"Nakama" is a word used in some groups translating One Piece that denotes a close friendship and partnership, a camaraderie, a near-familial bond. Thus, there is no direct translation for it in English, and thus again, groups choose leaving it because it ties the scenes it's used in together and when said it doesn't change into a variety of different words with slightly variating meanings.
Not any kind of belief that "seiyuu" has some deep meaning that cannot be conveyed in English.
I don't really understand this sentence >: Are you saying that it's perfectly translatable, but is used for distinction?
And man, your response was a bit harsh. I don't know if you detected any ill-will in my post, but rest assured that none was intended. I'm a mellow person and if this turns into a match of agression, then I'll opt out. Sorry to make your head explode with my opinions.
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Japanese isn't the only language to randomly use English words, pretty much all mainstream languages do that now. Hell, watch a Bollywood movie (that isn't historical) and I'll give you a million dollars if you don't hear at least 15 minutes worth of random English.
On the other hand, while English borrows words from other languages, especially French, the typcial American doesn't randomly switch languages in the middle of a sentence, so that argument doesn't hold up.
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What I don't understand is that it's a seriously weeaboo SIN yet it's cool for not only Oda, but virtually all mangaka I've come across to randomly put in words from various languages not only in attack names and character/place names but also randomly in conversation. These words hold different meanings from even close Japanese counterparts, and are used for a different effect. I mean OH GOD THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THAT THEY MAY BE ANNOYING AND FOREIGN TO THE READERS' POOR VIRGIN EARS WHY THE HELL WOULD ANYONE PUT THEM IN?? Maybe that has nothing to do with this thread but to hear people screaming "THOSE K-F RETARDS HAVE INFECTED ANIME FANDOM FOR ALL ETERNITY!" while Foxy talks about wanting "one Monster Burger, please!" it all just seems so twisted to me.
Oda doesn't write for America, he writes for Japan. And in Japan, using English is considered as exotic/cool as writing in Japanese is here. So, he uses English whenever possible and oftentimes it doesn't come out right, but he wouldn't care because pronunciation-wise it doesn't matter to a Japanese speaker.
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LOL So the argument has boiled down to "well JAPAN uses english words SO IT'S OKAY"
Because the impact of the english language as a whole in popular culture/society there is COMPLETEY comparable to japanese here.
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Touché.
I'm getting major deja vu here. C'est la vie! -
@Taz:
LOL So the argument has boiled down to "well JAPAN uses english words SO IT'S OKAY"
The "nakama" situation is a bit different, but depending on who you talk to that is the ultimate case. For some people using foreign words is cool, for other people it's weeaboo. I don't know where I stand anymore on that.
As Ivotas outlined, though, "nakama"'s meaning is entirely a fan-imprint and is the child of K-F, not Oda. It's not part of his original story and is in fact comparable to what 4Kids does with rewriting the scripts, albeit to a far less extreme. No argument.
However fitting it may be to the series, the emotion is still artificial and therefore should be removed. One could argue on the grounds of intent all day, but ultimately effectual arguments are much more sound - we can see what Oda did in the manga versus what he wanted to do, and outside of a totally obvious mistake we need go with what he did since that's the route he deemed most appropriate to convey what he wanted.
The Navigators have had an arse of a time deciding on terminologies and names for this very reason - even though most of us agree "Alabaster" is probably the intended term or at least inspiration for Vivi's home, Oda has written it in English as Alabasta and Arabasta, the final term more frequently than the rest. Thus, we can conclude it's his favoured term and picked it.
One cannot differentiate in such a case versus intent and effectuality. Look at Gurren-Lagann - Gainax named several Ganmen after the four legendary saint beasts Byakko, Seiryuu, Suzaku and Genbu. Only, their names were Byakou, Sayrune, Shuzak and Gember. Was the intent the original saint beast names? Probably not, from the romanji, but it could be. We don't know, we can only go with what was given to us.
"Lazengann" too.
@Taz:
Because the impact of the english language as a whole in popular culture/society there is COMPLETEY comparable to japanese here.
Who knows? Probably is IMO. :happy:
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This thread has evolved. Someone forgot to cue the bright glowing light and suspense music.
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This post is deleted!
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Alabasta vs Arabasta, english spellings, romanji, etc, WHAT?
What on earth is all this? Your response to my post had almost no relevance to what I was saying. I was pretty much agreeing with you.
Who knows? Probably is IMO. :happy:
I'll assume you wrote that with the intention of being ironic.
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I couldn´t help but play a little bit around with some manga panels in order to make me (our?) position somewhat understandable…
! http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/8108/superfriends001sz5.jpg
! http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/3998/superfriends002xd8.jpg
! http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/6418/superfriends004sp4.jpg
! http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/5605/superfriends005yy9.jpg
! http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/8898/superfriends006mc0.jpg
! http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/110/superfriends003bf9.jpg
! http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/9006/superfriends007tv3.jpg
! http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/8378/superfriends008da9.jpg
! http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/3131/superfriends009er1.jpg
! http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/1293/superfriends010tj1.jpgThe moment gets ruined by superfriends doesn´t it? That´s exactly the same how some of us cringe when seeing nakama in the same context.
Nearly dies from laughing
Well, I don't think Nakama sounds quite as ridicculous as "Superfriend", though. But yeah, the fansubbers insisting on using "Nakama" all the time is kinda stupid, and quite frankly, I think Viz's method of translating it to whatever term seems most fitting works alot better. (Must… edit the script for the next episode so they say "Superfriend" rather than "Nakama" after I download it...!) -
Can't we all just agree to use superfriend from now on?
Let's look at this for a minute..
1. It's humurous
2. It has a deep meaningProblem solved.
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@Taz:
LOL So the argument has boiled down to "well JAPAN uses english words SO IT'S OKAY"
Because the impact of the english language as a whole in popular culture/society there is COMPLETEY comparable to japanese here.
No.
ODA randomly uses English/etc words for effect among a sea of Japanese because where he stands it's considered cool, the exact reverse of what scanlation/subbing groups do.
I guess the intent is different… use of "nakama" is done to just bring the word over and keep the original meaning, while Oda having words like "captain" or "monster" in English is done to sound cool. Of course you also have the 'weeaboo' argument that "Nami, you are my nakama!" sounds 'cooler' than "Nami, you are my friend/comrade/crewmate/etc!"
But that doesn't change the fact that both parties do it! Saying that them using a word that most of the people they're reaching wouldn't usually naturally know to get a different feeling is a devastating blow to the community is bizzare and rediculous when, as I said, "one monster burger, please!".
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@Vegard:
Right… remember that time Tatsuki said "Aren't we friends? Aren't we "nakama"?!" Now, if they did what you said, she would have said the exact same thing twice. Now, I don't think Nakama is as important as some people make it seem, and I really don't care wether the term will be used in the DVD subs or not, but I don't see why people complain about it BEING used, either.
Then use another word.
see now carter you know how much I love you
and my Japanese skills are extremely limited
and you MAY have been going for some sort of bizzare sarcasm or something like it i dunno
but wouldn't "voice actor" have worked just as well in that sentence?
Honestly, it's out of some bizarre habit.
Hell, sometimes when I talk about English voice actors I almost slip up and type "seiyuu."
http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/8168/beatdeadhorsedd7vm2.gifhttp://img410.imageshack.us/img410/8168/beatdeadhorsedd7vm2.gif
http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/8168/beatdeadhorsedd7vm2.gifhttp://img410.imageshack.us/img410/8168/beatdeadhorsedd7vm2.gif
This is what is known as a "victim of its own joke."
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@Cap'n:
Honestly, it's out of some bizarre habit.
Hell, sometimes when I talk about English voice actors I almost slip up and type "seiyuu."
But if you used "nakama" or "kawaii" or "baka" etc which for some reason are considered overused and associated with fantards and weeaboos, yet still as Japanese as many of the words that aren't, you'd be flamed.
AGH I DUNNO
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Seiyuu and voice actor are used to differentiate between English VAs and Japanese seiyuu.
Baka, kawaii, and half a dozen other words are used by retards. Example: a girl in my high school's anime club called me a baka.
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@Mr.:
Seiyuu and voice actor are used to differentiate between English VAs and Japanese seiyuu.
Baka, kawaii, and half a dozen other words are used by retards. Example: a girl in my high school's anime club called me a baka.
End of discussion, get!
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..dunno really
but who cares??
some poeple say "Nakama" and the others "Superfriend"
….yeah :wassat:? -
but it's all japanese
used for different effect than english
wether or not some words are said exclusively by "retards"
and who draws the line? I mean yeah there's popular consensus but who really decides what words are appropriate and what words make you sound stupid? Isn't it a matter of opinion?
and I think that's what arguing on the intenet is all about. lolopinions and fighting and etc.
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Again: one Japanese word is used for a purpose, the other it for the sake of using a Japanese word.
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So which is "nakama"? Doesn't the answer vary depending on what side you're on?
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@Taz:
What on earth is all this? Your response to my post had almost no relevance to what I was saying. I was pretty much agreeing with you.
I'm not sure where I went or where I am anymore. :silly:
It's a combination of hay fever + early mornings.
@Taz:
I'll assume you wrote that with the intention of being ironic.
No, I thought you were advocating what you outlined. I do apologize for that. :happy:
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A note on "seiyuu" -
I myself am using this far less, since the Japanese equivalent to "voice actor" in English would be "character voice" or "CV" which can be found quite commonly on numerous Japanese websites. The problem is, most people aren't going to know the difference between CVs and VAs, but a term like "seiyuu" makes the distinction quite obvious when normally it would be subtle, requiring a deal of lurking.