@Phenomenol:
This is highly false. Have you ever heard of skills. What you are talking about is an athletic ability. Reaction is a skill. You can be slow in distance but does not mean that you can not react to a certain situation. Why do you think Luffy is able to handle people faster then him? his skills. Luffy's skill to read and analyze an opponents technique is amazing. That is a skill. Ussop and Nami's reaction towards Ener's lightning attacks is what helped. So no you do not have to be a little slower than lightning or faster than lightning to dodge.
Unless you begin dodging before lightning strikes, yes you do (unless other enviromental variables help deviate the strike).
Imagine a car driving towards you at 90,000 mph (approximate speed of lightning) within 50 feet from you. You need to run out of the way at least 5,400 mph to the tangent of the car coming towards you. The shorter the distance of you and the car the faster you will have to move. Now unless you're going to argue that both Ussop and Nami are faster than mach 1, there should not be a realistic chance of any OP character dodging lighting.
Now what if you started running before the car even began to move. Wouldn't that increase your chances of dodging? Especially if you knew where and when the lightning will strike?
Nami has the ability to predict that. Lucci does not.
Blah I'm not going to quote anymore, show me where I said that Lucci would "react" to his lightning, I said he would dodge it because he could move so quickly that eneru could not aim it at him in the first place.
Please don't falsely state that I said things I did not say to advance your argument. The only time I even used the word react at all was when I was reffering to Eneru, and his ability to aim at and hit someone with a lightning strike. If by some strange miracle I did say react (i just reread my posts and didn't see it), I sure as hell didn't mean it.
Problem is that you did not say that. And IF Enel couldn't "aim" it as you'd say, then couldn't he just create a large electrical field that Lucci couldn't enter or else he'll get fried? Wouldn't that take care of a close combat lucci?
I don't quantify Lucci's speed as just 'faster than the eye can see', I quantify it as 'faster than Luffy's eye can see.'
For instance, I'd buy the idea that Kuro was as fast as say, Blueno. Of course, Luffy was able to fight Blueno and deal with his movement speed even without gear second. And blueno isn't slow, either. I mean he's a master of rokushiki just like everyone else. I'd wager that Eneru would be completely unable to aim a strike of lightning at Kuro doing his ultimate attack as well, in fact it's obvious that he couldn't. Lucci is so fast that someone who can actually see and defend against Soru from another cp9 agent was in fact unable to even SEE him.
And how exactly would you rationalize that Lucci is so far ahead of Blueno in speed? Oh wait, one lousey showing of Luffy when he wasn't even in the mood to fight (too busy attempting to reach Nico Robin who was getting away from him), gotcha.
Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if Luffy had no problem seeing Lucci in their upcoming battle. But til then, there is nothing that leads me to believe that Lucci is so much faster than Blueno or Kuro.
The lightning was never "drawn" to something on the ship, it was made very, very obvious that he could make it hit whatever he wanted it to hit without following the laws of conductivity. If we assume rubber has zero conductivity (which is false, but in one piece it's apparently true, because Oda is not a freaking physicist), lightning would not even be able to strike Luffy and send him flying through a wall.
So don't even start with your pseudo-scientific explanations, Enel was flatly able to shoot his lightning in a straight line (when Nami dodges his first lightning attack) and it obviously doesn't follow the laws of conductivity because most of his attacks would have been impossible since electricity follows the path of least resistance.
According to the manga all the gold ship did was increase Eneru's deadliness, it's commented on how he can use the ship as a medium to move around better and faster, and Eneru explains that the gold multiplies his ability by ten times so that he can destroy the entirety of sky island with a huge thunderstorm.
Don't even attempt to pretend that it's scientific, it's a guy who can shoot electricity and turn into it, if it were realistic he wouldn't be able to control where his lightning went period, and even beyond that, he wouldn't be able to control his own movement in lightning form.
Unfortunately we have Ussop recognizing that the lightning strike that Enel shot at him and nami were drawn to the huge glass balls. Why else would Ussop then begin taunting Enel on top of that? And why else would Enel then proceed to teleport and knock Ussop off of the glass ball? If those events did not occur you might have had a point.
So the strawhat's are talking out of their ass when it goes against your "enel is almighty" stuff, but it's absolutely accurate when it seems to agree with you?
Nami's speech meant that the strawhats can overcome any enemy if they have their resolve. This doesn't mean that if Mihawk, Shanks, and Whitebeard, and Ao Kiji all randomly decided to team up and attack the strawhats, that the strawhats would win, but if you take what she said literally, I guess it does.
The strawhats did lack their resolve (even though you're being a hypocrite and claiming that Luffy was talking out of his ass), but that's just their ability to keep getting back up and to keep going, they still lost and I think anyone with common sense acknowledges that even if Luffy had his full resolve he could not have defeated Lucci without using gear second, just as he was unable to defeat ao kiji with his full resolve and power (of course, he probably couldn't beat ao kiji even with gear second).
So in your mind, Luffy must have suddenly discovered this 2nd and 3rd gear in less than a days time from his encounter with Lucci?
Nami said that currently the strawhats didn't have the resolve to beat those 5 members of CP9 with their hearts is disarray. But when they did, they could defeat them.
No I didn't, I said that Eneru couldn't react to Lucci's soru well enough to aim lightning at him, not that Lucci would react to his lightning and jump out of the way.
Why must one who is a master of lightning be limited to small lightning bolts?
This is highly false. Have you ever heard of skills. What you are talking about is an athletic ability. Reaction is a skill. You can be slow in distance but does not mean that you can not react to a certain situation. Why do you think Luffy is able to handle people faster then him? his skills. Luffy's skill to read and analyze an opponents technique is amazing. That is a skill. Ussop and Nami's reaction towards Ener's lightning attacks is what helped. So no you do not have to be a little slower than lightning or faster than lightning to dodge.
Himura Kenshins skill of analyist and opponent techniques is amazing. A simple minded Luffy is far from that. And look at the car reference above.
That is your opinion. Considering the fact that you want to ignore a direct quote from Luffy that actually holds some water. Also I doubt that if it were not true Oda would not have put that in the manga. Fact of the matter is the world is big, much bigger than Ener can imagine. Proof of that is when he ran into Luffy Ener lost his composure and did not expect anyone able to rival his powers. Once again Ener needs to learn the size of the One Piece world and Luffy was part of it.Their are monsters much greater than Ener on the Blue Seas.
And Nico Robin who has a far larger amount of experience and knowledge of the grand line thought that Enel was practically invincible.
For these "monsters" on the blue seas, name some and explain how they're more monsterous than Enel and how Enel couldn't hope to cope with them.
I think Luffy has experience with people who are stronger than Enel, for instance, his older brother.
Explain how Ace is stronger than Enel.
Regardless, the only reason I mentioned that quote in my post was to show that k-os was accepting a quote from Nami as though whatever she says is automatically true and then in another instance saying that Luffy was talking out of his ass.
Typically people who have a larger knowledge base in certain areas would be the people to goto for correct information. In that particular case, Nami's word holds more weight than Luffy's word.
With regards to Lucci fighting a logia with "standard equipment" I agree with you, it's unlikely that Lucci has means to damage a logia user without taking advantage of a weakness it has (did the golden ball hit Eneru? I don't remember).
Thank you for finally agreeing. As per the golden ball, I stated before that Luffy's fist hit Enel first, which likely made him solid enough to be crushed between the golden ball and the golden bell.
Of course, if anything that doesn't have good conductivity can hit eneru, I suppose Lucci could just use his surroundings to do some damage to him. Rubber's not the only material with low conductivity. Bare fisted though, Lucci couldn't do anything as far as I know.
Possibly one of the more common materials that is resistent to electricity. Should Lucci decide to protect himself, he'd need something that is not only a poor conductor but also heat resistant otherwise the poor conductor will burn through and he'll get shocked anyway.
As for Crocodile, it's clear that someone who's simply a really strong fighter can defeat him. Otherwise Luffy would have lost, he had no special advantage over Crocodile,
If that person can keep himself wet and thus make Croc wet then a strong fighter who can avoid from being poisoned may do. For luffy, being a human water tank helped him out.
the only difference between Luffy's fight with croc and Lucci's theoretical one would be that Lucci is a much stronger/faster fighter than Luffy was in alabasta. But again, without finding the weakness either intentionally or accidentally (getting bloody), we don't know that rokushiki techniques can be used on logias (and I assume they can't, though it's possible that tekkai can defend against them).
How much faster and stronger is Lucci compared to Luffy from Alabasta? Also remember that Luffy doesn't train either. Zoro is really the only one that actually trains to become more than he presently is. Nami waits for Ussop to make new weapons and Ussop well he makes new weapons.
I'm not of the school of thought which says a vs. requires "standard" equipment (i guess if you set the fight in a black and white room with zero detritus), I feel that anything common (so obviously it can't be "well if Lucci had a death ray!") is fair game, rather, anything he might actually pick up in the surrounding environment during the fight, or anything he's used in past fights (he has used a saw). Seastone was available in skypeia since wiper had access to some so I consider it perfectly fair game to consider the vs with lucci at least having theoretical access to it.
If you want to know who should typically win then standard equipment is a must. Otherwise anyone with proper preperation could take down anyway. If you're going to grant Lucci equipment to deal with Enel, then Enel should at least know what to expect from Lucci if not including proper equipment for him against Lucci.
Chibi-Zoro, there is a decided difference between comic relief and exaggeration. More importantly though, when Nami first dodged Eneru's lightning, it was anything but comic relief.
Which was already rationalized that Nami knew the strike was coming and started dodging it before he launched it due to her knowledge of weather.
When Usopp arrived on scene, it was obviously comic relief, but I'm hesitant to say it was exaggeration, since it had already been demonstrated that his lightning could be dodged, but I really don't care whether or not Usopp "really" dodged Eneru's attacks. Nami did.
When one has the skills to dodge something, doesn't neccessarily mean that someone else has those same skills required to do so in the first place.
first of all Luffy has faced Crocodile who undoubtably is stronger than Ener. Ener basically avoided fighting Luffy the entire Arc. Unlike Ener Crocodile was able to send Luffy to hell twice despite the fact Luffy knew Crocodile's weakness he still lost. I remember Crocodile stating there is a huge Fundamental difference between them and "that is the Level of Shichibukai." Ener did not even defeat Luffy once. Despite the fact that he had Ener's weakness, Ener also had Luffy's weakness and still got his ass handed to him.
If Luffy had not been rubber, would he have won at all against Enel? No he wouldn't. Luffy only survived against Enel because Enels most powerful attacks weren't of any use against Luffy.
Also let's not forget about Mihawk who Luffy has seen up close and Personal. "The World's Strongest Swordsman" is considered the most powerful character in the world. Luffy has also seen the Red- Haired Pirates, and lets not forget about Smoker who arguably has one of the top Logia abilitiesl.
Can you even explain how these people will defeat Enel? If not then why bring them up?
Ener can not defeat the big timers that we the Audience have seen like a Whitebeard, Dragon, and Ace who was stronger than Luffy even with his Gummo Gummo Powers another person Luffy has fought. Luffy is not trash talking. The world is much bigger than Skypiea!
How would Whitebeard beat Enel?
How would Dragon?
Or Ace? Seriously, a bi product of lightning is severe heat, what is a fire guy gonna do? At the very least the sudden discharge of lightning can snuf out fire.
There may be a larger world that Enel has not yet experienced, but of that world of whom you claim to be stronger than enel, you can't even justifiably explain why they are. For you, they are simply cause they are. That is not enough of a justification for me.