Android 19 was lame. I liked 20, though.
DragonBall is underrated
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the bigot who thinks being an asshole is actually worth shit
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Kid Buu was actually the only scary DBZ villain as far as I'm concerned. There was something slightly unsettling about some mindless imortal demon child going around blowing up planets and killing billions for fun. It was far more disturbing than Frieza or Cell's main shonen villain overplayed cruelty.
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Yeah, there's that too. And the reaction Kaioshin gave when he reverted to Kid Boo was pretty chilling as well.
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@Cap'n:
Android 19 was lame. I liked 20, though.
I thought that Android 16 was a very fascinating character…and he's an Android. Drivin by the goal to kill Goku but yet stops to smell the flowers and be merciful to lesser beings. And then went against his programming in the end. Good character, I liked him a lot. 16 and 17 ruled.
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@Beautiful:
Ha, Android 19 lucked out because Goku had the heart condition.
Never said he was powerful; Android 19 sucked quite a lot. Simply had a very unique design, is all. Android 20 looked pretty pimp, as well.
Android 16 was alright, but the Beefcake Pacifist aspect wasn't too terribly interesting.
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@Cyringohn:
Never said he was powerful; Android 19 sucked quite a lot. Simply had a very unique design, is all. Android 20 looked pretty pimp, as well.
Android 16 was alright, but the Beefcake Pacifist aspect wasn't too terribly interesting.
I only liked 19 BECAUSE of the dub. That little giggly voice always saying "Yes?"
"I will absorb all of your energy, yes?"
"We will dance now, yes?"I remember saying "Yes?" almost everyday in 8th grade.
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My favorite Android design was the short purple one that only appeared in movie 7.
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Negrobot?
I liked 16 too, but mainly because of Super DBZ. He was pretty fun to play as.
the bigot who thinks being an asshole is actually worth shit
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@Cap'n:
Negrobot?
Haha. I liked his hat.
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I find Super Android 17 rather badass. If we count DBGT.
Speaking of that, did Toriyama handle the designs of GT characters or were they done by Toei?
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@Cyringohn:
Android 16 was alright, but the Beefcake Pacifist aspect wasn't too terribly interesting.
I wouldn't really call him a pacifist, since he would kick some serious ass if provoked. A pacifist would just run.
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I find Super Android 17 rather badass. If we count DBGT.
Speaking of that, did Toriyama handle the designs of GT characters or were they done by Toei?
I know he did some of them at least.
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Super 17's ears were too damn big and goofy looking. He always looked like some kind of weird ape-man to me.
He was kind of badass, but that to me that was offset by the fact that I never liked 17 to begin with.
Caramel Man beats them all, though.
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I just didn't like how earlier his scarf was tied with both ribbons out on each shoulder, and as Super 17 it was tied on just one side, like a 50s woman scarf. >_>
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Super 17 was cool.Just didn't like the whole "Dr myu and gero get together in hell to make super 17" idea.Anway dbgt was obviously a joke.
You might find this suprising but I loved garlic junior.He has to be one of the few overly buff characters in anime history I liked.Also the saga was pretty good on its own anyway.(guess its because krillin was kicking ass again)
one of the best fillers ever
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Aside from Marron's titties being all over the place I have to powerfully disagree.
The "spice boys"(god i REALLY hate the dub sometimes) were probably the gayest, most throwaway group of filler enemies ever.
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I actually hate Super 17. Personally would rather of seen him gain development similar to 18 post-Cell, but that's me. I mean, he wasn't really the "conquer the world" type either, he just did all he did for the thrill of things (and because 16 "said" he wanted to go after Goku)…then dissapeared after Cell absorbed him. I rather would have liked to see what Toriyama could have done in the Buu saga in personality and such with the original 17 as opposed to Toei digging him up to make him evil and fuse with something.
Now 20/Gero...he was cool. Sure he got killed rather easily but he did his part in the saga.
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@Tokoro:
I actually hate Super 17. Personally would rather of seen him gain development similar to 18 post-Cell, but that's me. I mean, he wasn't really the "conquer the world" type either, he just did all he did for the thrill of things (and because 16 "said" he wanted to go after Goku)…then dissapeared after Cell absorbed him. I rather would have liked to see what Toriyama could have done in the Buu saga in personality and such with the original 17 as opposed to Toei digging him up to make him evil and fuse with something.
Now 20/Gero...he was cool. Sure he got killed rather easily but he did his part in the saga.
If you remember correctly, Hell-Fighter 17 (the 17 he fused with) was more in control of the Super 17 body than the real 17 was, that's probably where the "Take over the world" thing came from.
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Aside from Marron's titties being all over the place I have to powerfully disagree.
The "spice boys"(god i REALLY hate the dub sometimes) were probably the gayest, most throwaway group of filler enemies ever.
Well yeah now that I think of it they were kinda flaming,But never the less I think garlic Jr. was the man.It was nice to see krillin and piccolo kick the main villians's ass for a change
I actually hate Super 17. Personally would rather of seen him gain development similar to 18 post-Cell, but that's me. I mean, he wasn't really the "conquer the world" type either, he just did all he did for the thrill of things (and because 16 "said" he wanted to go after Goku)…then dissapeared after Cell absorbed him. I rather would have liked to see what Toriyama could have done in the Buu saga in personality and such with the original 17 as opposed to Toei digging him up to make him evil and fuse with something.
Now 20/Gero...he was cool. Sure he got killed rather easily but he did his part in the saga. April 5th, 2007 04:44 PM
lets not go over board.yeah his design was good but that was it.The storyline sucked ostrich balls just like most of of dbgt.
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It's always depressing to see the awesome, old villains get their asses stomped by Goten, nerd Gohan, and "married edition" Vegeta.
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Everything buu saga and beyond is dead to me.
People rag on GT when they dont realize that the buu saga was no better.
but because all-knowing Toriyama-sama wrote it, of course its great.
but yea, cell saga was a strectch, but I enjoyed that nonetheless. Don't even think I watched the entire buu saga. Storyline was too all over the place.
GT was worse, but Buu saga came close.
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@Radical:
lets not go over board.yeah his design was good but that was it.The storyline sucked ostrich balls just like most of of dbgt.
The design was alright but I rather would of had 17 developed in the post-Cell/Buu arcs instead of resurecting him just to make him a villain again. But agreed on the whole arc anyway: the only really funny part was Goku facing off again against Frieza and Cell…but even that wasn't perfect. Though I really hated how some of the more respected villains from before were just dug up as cannon fodder to be killed again.
And yeah...really don't want to get into GT. Outside the final episode (which I do admit is a fine way to end the whole DB universe) and a couple of the weird "cosmic search for DBs" ideas (even though I hate Pan and whole "make Goku a kid again with DBs no one knew about until now so we can save Earth), the series sucked from start to finish.
Y'know, Negima WAS awesome…
For the first 18 volumes.
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You know what? I kinda liked the beginning of GT. When it was aping DB instead of Z. I was 13 when I saw it, but thats not much of an excuse, it was pretty cool in a cheesy way.
@Tokoro:
The design was alright but I rather would of had 17 developed in the post-Cell/Buu arcs instead of resurecting him just to make him a villain again.
Well, one could make the argument that he got just as much development as anyone besides Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, Trunks, or Ten.
Originally Posted by Battle Franky
Bad move, bub!
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Well, one could make the argument that he got just as much development as anyone besides Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, Trunks, or Ten.
17 never really had that much development outside being an "unknown force". He woke up, killed Gero, went on a wild road trip to go after Goku, fought Piccolo, nearly defeated Cell, got absorbed by Cell…then is never heard from again. Considering how much 18 got (though she had other purposes to the tale) and how influencial 16 was, I always thought 17 got the short end of the stick.
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My point was that there wasn't much development outside of those key characters.
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Android 17 had the personality of a brick. Android 18 only began to develop through her relationship with Krillin.
It's a bit sad [yet terribly badass] that Mr. Satan had more personality than most of the central Dragonball characters.
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Let me just end it with this: Toriyama would have developed 17 if he kept him around, pure and simple. He was a cool design and was wasted like many other characters due to not being a Saiyan or on Goku's side. Heck, most of the later villains are one-dimensional anyway…which made Buu so good in some ways since he was a clean slate who went several ways.
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17 had no personality whatsoever and Super 17 was no different, I just liked the design and the fact he was a ridiculously powerful cyborg destroying Sayans with ease.
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Am I the only here who still wonders what's so badass about Cell?
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Analysis of DBZ character development FTL.
Really tho, if the reason you watch DBZ is for its character development, you're kinda missing the point.
after piccolo's attachment to gohan, character development kinda ceased to be.(maybe vegeta's dying speech counts too)
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Who said anything about character development? They were talking about personality.
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Analysis of DBZ character development FTL.
Really tho, if the reason you watch DBZ is for its character development, you're kinda missing the point.
after piccolo's attachment to gohan, character development kinda ceased to be.(maybe vegeta's dying speech counts too)
Yeah, because you cannot add good character development within the fighting genre. Oh no, that approach should be reserved solely for all other genres.
Constantly evading death and taking the lives of others would have no impact on your way of thinking. Nope.
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@Cyringohn:
Yeah, because you cannot add good character development within the fighting genre. Oh no, that approach should be reserved solely for all other genres.
Constantly evading death and taking the lives of others would have no impact on your way of thinking. Nope.
Its not that you can't, its that DBZ doesn't.
Who said anything about character development? They were talking about personality.
O RLY? O_O
Let me just end it with this: Toriyama would have developed 17 if he kept him around, pure and simple. He was a cool design and was wasted like many other characters due to not being a Saiyan or on Goku's side. Heck, most of the later villains are one-dimensional anyway…which made Buu so good in some ways since he was a clean slate who went several ways.
Android 17 had the personality of a brick. Android 18 only began to develop through her relationship with Krillin.
My point was that there wasn't much development outside of those key characters.
Well, one could make the argument that he got just as much development as anyone besides Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, Trunks, or Ten.
My bad then.
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Its not that you can't, its that DBZ doesn't.
The argument 'you're reading the wrong manga' is completely invalid if said reader does not know what happens in Dragonball, i.e. they're still reading through it. He or she would expect, you know, the characters to develop, and saying 'lol thiz iz dragunbllz' doesn't apply.
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Everything buu saga and beyond is dead to me.
People rag on GT when they dont realize that the buu saga was no better.
but because all-knowing Toriyama-sama wrote it, of course its great.
No, it's because the Buu Saga really is much better than GT. I've always hated the 28th Budokai, but the rest of the saga was fine.
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@Dr.:
No, it's because the Buu Saga really is much better than GT. I've always hated the 28th Budokai, but the rest of the saga was fine.
I didn't like how all over the place it was. I mean its like a mainstream fanfic.
The argument 'you're reading the wrong manga' is completely invalid if said reader does not know what happens in Dragonball, i.e. they're still reading through it. He or she would expect, you know, the characters to develop, and saying 'lol thiz iz dragunbllz' doesn't apply.
What?
What I said was "If you're reading dragonball for the character development, your missing the point" because of the lack of it. Characters are pretty static for the most part. and the ones that do develop contradict that development later on(Majin Vegeta).
Dragonball has always been more about action and adventure. Thats why people read it. People also loved the characters. Not because they were super deep, but because it was enjoyable following them and their adventures.
Some people, also watch it for the action.
but I just can't imagine anyone watching it for the character development, because there is none really. I think that is why it was so popular tho.
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O RLY? O_O
They're talking about the fact that Super 17 had the personality of a brick. None whatsoever. While others are arguing that Toriyama would developed an actual personality for him if he actually was part of the story afterwards.
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Dragon Ball is my favourite anime/manga. Just a bit more than One Piece. I mean, I grew up with it. If it wasn't for DB, I wouldn't even know about other anime. Yes, GT sucks ass. Toriyama didn't write it though, just did a couple of character designs.
Also, I really think that it would have been very shitty to end Dragon Ball at the end of the Freeza arc. Sure, Goku goes SSJ and "dies" in order to kill Freeza. But all the character development for Gohan goes to SHIT. Now, if they ended it at the end of the Cell arc, it would have been WAY better. Honestly, the Buu saga is great, but it would have been much more epic if it ended with Goku dieing and Gohan killing Cell himself, surpassing his father as the strongest warrior in the world.
Just my opinion.
Believe is song ripped from a dance craze that involves women in as little clothing as possible and crazy sex. The only thing happy-go-lucky about it is my cock.
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What's funny is that Vegeta actually acknowledged Goku's strength during his death speech at the time of the Frieza fight. Then he pulled an Usopp until the Buu saga where Vegeta's acknowledgement actually became genuine.
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My country, with all their brains, skipped DB and immediately started featuring DBZ only. I'd be dead if I said I liked it [even though I didn't get DB, just saying].
I dunno if I should start getting DB anytime soon with all the pressure that's going on me now, maybe in some years.
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Y'know, I really don't get the GT hate. Me, I love GT as much as I love Z and Dragonball. Yeah, yeah, Toriyama didn't write it, but he was involved (see Greg's link a few pages back), and hell, he even enjoyed the series. Frankly, I always thought the series had a few things in particular that put it above the Z anime. One being the lack of those lag-ass training arcs, I should mention. Granted, the Super 17 saga was lame (I always hated the "villains returning from hell" stuff, but Super 17 himself was cool, as a boss character), but the Dark Dragon saga was fun (particularly the fight with Ii Shenron), and the Baby saga was just awesome. Hell, Baby's gotta be my favorite villain in the trilogy, for a bunch of reasons I'm not gonna get into. Granted, the Black Star Dragonball saga was slow going, but it was still fun. Don't get the M2 hate, though, but maybe that's because, when I watched it, I knew it was a mini-arc preceeding the main bad guy. Shogun Rirudo was cool, though, and I liked his liquid metal schtick.
I swear, GT just gets too much hate. Alot of times, though, people just hate it for the fact that Toriyama didn't write it. I understand not liking it if you just don't like it, but you gotta admit, there's alot of people who shun it for that very reason (you can see part of it in how people will think of it differently when they find out how much involvement Toriyama actually had in it).
GT's pretty damn underrated, in my opinion. Not the dub, though. Hot damn, that show got slaughtered.
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Y'know, I really don't get the GT hate. Me, I love GT as much as I love Z and Dragonball. Yeah, yeah, Toriyama didn't write it, but he was involved (see Greg's link a few pages back), and hell, he even enjoyed the series. Frankly, I always thought the series had a few things in particular that put it above the Z anime. One being the lack of those lag-ass training arcs, I should mention. Granted, the Super 17 saga was lame (I always hated the "villains returning from hell" stuff, but Super 17 himself was cool, as a boss character), but the Dark Dragon saga was fun (particularly the fight with Ii Shenron), and the Baby saga was just awesome. Hell, Baby's gotta be my favorite villain in the trilogy, for a bunch of reasons I'm not gonna get into. Granted, the Black Star Dragonball saga was slow going, but it was still fun. Don't get the M2 hate, though, but maybe that's because, when I watched it, I knew it was a mini-arc preceeding the main bad guy. Shogun Rirudo was cool, though, and I liked his liquid metal schtick.
I swear, GT just gets too much hate. Alot of times, though, people just hate it for the fact that Toriyama didn't write it. I understand not liking it if you just don't like it, but you gotta admit, there's alot of people who shun it for that very reason (you can see part of it in how people will think of it differently when they find out how much involvement Toriyama actually had in it).
GT's pretty damn underrated, in my opinion. Not the dub, though. Hot damn, that show got slaughtered.
I didn't like it because Toriyama didn't write it. I didn't like it because it was boring, predictable, dragged out, and horribly animated when compared to DB and DBZ in my opinion.
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Things I liked about GT:
- OOB (until he became a jobber)
- Baby (I loved his blue design. It was sweet)
- Dan Dan (Man I loved that song)
- Goten vs Baby
- Pretty much the stuff when baby came to earth then when it was over
Stuff I hated:
- Pan, she was so cool in Z, but it in GT she became another typical bitch in the DB series.
- Oob jobbing in the series, man his fight againist baby was sweet, but god towards the end of the 7 dragon arc thing he was easily defeated.
- Some of those crappy 7 star dragons
- The blackstar dragonballs (gah I just didn't like the concept on how they made.)
Things I am in between about:
- Kid goku (I didn't like how he pretty much became super weak then like7 episodes later he could go super sayian.)
- SSJ 4 (I am pretty inbtween on this one, I hate and like the look at the same time. It's hard to explain.)
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To be fair, though, the series suffered from the same problem Toriyama himself was faced with (ironically). Baby was supposed to be the series' only main villain, with episode 40 being the finale. However, the series was extended (from what I can gather, it was to coincide with the release of Final Bout), and personally, I'll admit it kinda showed. Super 17's saga (the one part of GT I really didn't like) felt clunky (and had appearances from movie villains that never could've existed in the main timeline), and the Dark Dragon saga was just a series of boss fights (though I did still like it).
And as for GT not being as well animated, that's just insane. Aside from GT being made later, and by the same animation team, must I bring up those horrible animation days DBZ was riddled with?! Adding to that, GT's fights had alot more flair to them. Just look at Baby vs. Vegeta. That fight was fantastically animated (and Baby painting the concrete with Vegeta's face was just a 10.0 on the awesome-o-meter). And don't get me started on Baby vs. Uub. And the number of "good lord, he's got frog eyes and his hair is bigger than his body" episodes were FAR fewer than in Z.
I could go further, what with the wider variety of environments, updated animation technology, and so forth, but I don't think I need to at this point.
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GT's pretty damn underrated, in my opinion. Not the dub, though. Hot damn, that show got slaughtered.
I've never liked Funi, but the fact that they made such a terrible dub so recently doesn't reflect well on them at all.
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And as for GT not being as well animated, that's just insane. Aside from GT being made later, and by the same animation team, must I bring up those horrible animation days DBZ was riddled with?! Adding to that, GT's fights had alot more flair to them. Just look at Baby vs. Vegeta. That fight was fantastically animated (and Baby painting the concrete with Vegeta's face was just a 10.0 on the awesome-o-meter). And don't get me started on Baby vs. Uub. And the number of "good lord, he's got frog eyes and his hair is bigger than his body" episodes were FAR fewer than in Z.
I could go further, what with the wider variety of environments, updated animation technology, and so forth, but I don't think I need to at this point.
Look at the character faces, you'll notice in A LOT of places they look BUTT UGLY. I never had that problem ever in all of DB and DBZ. The animation was clunky, at least in the character designs.
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How do they look "butt ugly"?! That makes no sense. They're exactly the same as they were in Z. Slightly better, in fact, due to slightly more advanced animation (allowing for more shading and such). And how can animation be clunky in character designs?! Again, makes no sense.
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Originally Posted by Buccaneer
Celine Dion post in the MK thread. I wish I could neg you.
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There are just too many things I never really liked about DBGT. The space arcs were alright, but I think everything started to fall apart in my head with Baby, who just seemed like Buu with a conscious. Most of the characters were either brainwashed or useless to begin with, making Goku (and Pan) the only ones who could save the day. And don't get me started on SSJ4 (I do admit to liking the Golden Oozaru, but hate that they needed yet another SSJ level). Never really liked the evil dragons either: while an interesting concept of the DB having a backlash for being used too often, it just seemed like, as said, a bunch of boss fights and yet another upgrade for Vegeta just for more fanservice.
Though I know I am complaining a lot, there were things I did like: "Dan Dan" is definately a classic theme song and….um...Vegeta was funny with a mustache :p Oh, and I did say that a couple of the early arcs prior to Baby weren't too bad either.
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How do they look "butt ugly"?! That makes no sense. They're exactly the same as they were in Z. Slightly better, in fact, due to slightly more advanced animation (allowing for more shading and such). And how can animation be clunky in character designs?! Again, makes no sense.
Look at them in side views or in close ups, the character designs are completely different.
The last thing I think DBGT has is "better animation" I would prefer DB animation more than anything. The character changes in GT annoy me:
That little kid, doesn't look like Goku.
That's Goku. And yes, the character design is very similar, but like I said look at them in close ups, the proportions on their faces gets all screwed up, at least to me and all my friends who have watched GT.
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Even though i find GT okay, some things bothers me, like Goku with tanned skin and the space arc, i found that arc kinda boring.
I didn't see the whole black dragon arc yet but i did like the ending of the series.! Too bad that Krillin died…again :'()
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