Naw, Croc would win. You can't just set sand on fire and say it's glass. Couldn't Croc put out the fire with sand?
How Can BB beat WB?
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They are equal right? (smoker and ace logia powers)
Yeah.
Now how has an advantage Smoker does. (sea stone stops ace and his logia powers)
Nope. Read these carefully:
After being hit by the Sea Stone jutte, assuming you know what Sea Stone is, I think you'd be able to realize it's a Sea Stone jutte if you're a DF user. Like when Wiper hit Eneru with Sea Stone, he could tell.
And:
You are forgetting Ace's jambiya. And that he obviously have skills with it. It isn't there for fun. He probably used it before he got his DF.
Get it now?
b/c it cancels his powers. Ace will know 2 but when he finds out it will be over.
You are underestimating Ace and overestimating Smoker.
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@OIP. Im not going against you but was it ever stated that the longer you have the fruit the stronger it is?
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@Impel:
Naw, Croc would win. You can't just set sand on fire and say it's glass. Couldn't Croc put out the fire with sand?
Hey NO Real World logic here AD HD and freedom sayz so!
AD HD could enel move when he was toch by the sea stone NO what make you think ace will.
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No, it was never stated anything like that.
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@Impel:
No, it was never stated anything like that.
sea tone is just like the sea.
Look at what happened to luffy when he toched the sea stone cage.
@ AD HD sea stone is just like the sea. a DF use will not be able to move when toched by sea stone.
Like i said about 8 times ace will find out and it will be over.period
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@OIP. Im not going against you but was it ever stated that the longer you have the fruit the stronger it is?
Not sure about it being stated but to prove my point just check out aokiji
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Your point is valid but remember this isn't real life. Croc has had more experience with his fruit so his sand power has become stronger than aces fire power.
e.g Croc just got his fruit yesterday his sand melting point would be equal to normal sand. Croc trains for (lets say) 5 years his melting point has become 5x higher.
So with ace less experience fruit he wouldn't be able to get his fire hot enough to melt croc's higher level sand.
Now croc vs ace (logia vs logia) with equal experience ace would win. But croc is more experienced with higher level sand so he wins, OP works like that.
However I agree ace would beat croc in a fight since ace would do whatever he pleases.
Do you agree now or am I still wrong?
If he did hit you I'd agree but smoker doesn't hit people with it, he stabs you with it and keeps it in contact with your body.
So if he got ace with it the fight would be over.
Ok, I get your point. The problem here is that we'd have to assume linear progression in DF experience and this definitely varies per person in OP. But, it could be with Logias in particular.
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AD HD could enel move when he was toch by the sea stone NO what make you think ace will.
Because it would be like this hit:
http://groups.msn.com/OnePieceManga/onepiecechapter169.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=3308 -
Ok, I get your point. The problem here is that we'd have to assume linear progression in DF experience and this definitely varies per person in OP. But, it could be with Logias in particular.
Well I guess there could be anomalies the question is do you believe ace is one of those anomalies? I don't think he's powerful enough to be an anomalie since he's had that fruit for 3 years (I think) and luffy has been on the GL for a few months and has grown massively.
If there are any anomalies I would put my money on luffy and zoro (I know their not logias) and possibly BB, I'm not sure yet.
Your thoughts?
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AD HD
LOL your too much LMAOYou said they are equal.
Who has the advantage Smoker. (sea stone)
Smoker is not dumb.
He will know what to do with his sea stone. Ace has no way of hurting Smoker.
Smoker has sea stone and will hurt Ace with it.
Smoker will win. period
Canon.
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Well I guess there could be anomalies the question is do you believe ace is one of those anomalies? I don't think he's powerful enough to be an anomalie since he's had that fruit for 3 years (I think) and luffy has been on the GL for a few months and has grown massively.
If there are any anomalies I would put my money on luffy and zoro (I know their not logias) and possibly BB, I'm not sure yet.
Your thoughts?
I definitely agree that Luffy's and Zoro's growth is rare and they are anomalies. Ace is a little harder b/c we know so little about him. Other anomalies I'd put my money on are Smoker and Aokiji and probably Mihawk and Shanks. Not sure about BB, he's been around for quite some time but there's still some credit to give him for being as powerful as he is and having hid it for so long. Back to Ace, we can assume he's had the same basic training as Luffy did with Dadan, so go figure, but real growth starts out on the sea and that's the info we're lacking. Ace's development after he left the island was at least impressive enough for WB and with that in mind, i'd acknowledge him as an anomaly as some of the other commanders may have been around back in Roger's time.
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I do agree if ace was given a few more years he would definitely be a threat, possibly even reach 3 great powers thread. But if luffy or zoro were given the same time, I think they would be double of what ace is.
At least ace could possibly reach ultra-tier since his growth is quite fast. I do agree if we could see ace's developement it would clear up alot of things.
Guess now we'll never know.
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Well if you look at it like this.. Ace left his and luffys hometown 3 years ago.. Within this 3 year period he has gotten the Fire DF, gone past the new world, and joined on the WB powers.. That is pretty fast growth but not as fast as Luffy.. I mean he already has a 300 mil bounty and has been gone >1 year..
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Time for my final thought…............
Blackbeard has shown the strongest abilities so far in One Piece, he is a @#$%&* BEAST!
Lock it up Mods.
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I only have a problem with smoker being on this list. When have we seen any positive evidence that smoker is one of the biggest guys? He was better than luffy in loguetown. Luffy has gotten alot stronger since then but his development is not normal. In fact his rise to power surprises the marines. We cannot expect that strawhat development is normal for any other characters. We need to see positive evidence that any of the old enemies have kept up. But seeing smoker recite an oath to catch luffy does not make him tough. If next week we saw buggy make an oath to defeat luffy, would that make buggy a big timer? Hell no. Buggy is an old east blue enemy just like smoker. Smoker cannot be a serious threat to anyone top tier and up.
Smoke chokes fire? Well we haven't seen oda use it this way. All we have seen is smoke and fire cancel out. Even without any obvious weakness, we need some real evidence that smoker could even get his hands on ace or anyone at ace's lvl and up. As far as we know, smoker can really only outfight a 30 mil luffy. We are far beyond 30 million bounties. Luffy's worth 300 and ace is prolly worth a ton too. Everyone of merit is worth 200 and up.
For smoker to be a big timer he needs to have the physical ability to take down important people. Its more than survival. He has to be strong enough for someone like BB, Ace, or luffy to even care about fighting him. Luffy and Ace didn't care about him back in alabasta and we haven't seen anything to tell us different since.
Oh and the Enel being filler thing is just my thought because he is a crocodile clone and the arc is so removed from main one piece plot to the point of having 0 impact on the story. It is just an arc created to give us time to get used to Robin so that it makes sense when luffy and co go after her in water 7.
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Speaking of Smoker how bout Arlong vs Bellamy? Arlong would totally own
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I only have a problem with smoker being on this list. When have we seen any positive evidence that smoker is one of the biggest guys? He was better than luffy in loguetown. Luffy has gotten alot stronger since then but his development is not normal. In fact his rise to power surprises the marines. We cannot expect that strawhat developma ent is normal for any other characters. We need to see positive evidence that any of the old enemies have kept up. But seeing smoker recite an oath to catch luffy does not make him tough. If next week we saw buggy make an oath to defeat luffy, would that make buggy a big timer? Hell no. Buggy is an old east blue enemy just like smoker. Smoker cannot be a serious threat to anyone top tier and up.
Well since smokers is and has been stronger than luffy any development at all would be something. And how can smoker not be a serious threat? I mean he is equal to Aces power, and I think it is safe to say that he will have the bigger attacks that the little preview of what he saw. So far every logia has had this big attack.
Smoke chokes fire? Well we haven't seen oda use it this way. All we have seen is smoke and fire cancel out. Even without any obvious weakness, we need some real evidence that smoker could even get his hands on ace or anyone at ace's lvl and up.
Well if fire and smoke cancel out, than smoker is obviously on aces level and has the the only advantage in a fight being the seastone. NOT to say that it would be used or he would be able to utilize it but still it is no doubt a factor.
As far as we know, smoker can really only outfight a 30 mil luffy. We are far beyond 30 million bounties. Luffy's worth 300 and ace is prolly worth a ton too. Everyone of merit is worth 200 and up.
Smoker can outfight a 300 mil luffy too.. As far as I look at it, smoker would outsmart luffy, He cant be hit by luffy, and his natural weakness is kinda unknown so i dont know what luffy could do about it. To be truthfull at this point I dont see what luffy could do to actually beat up on smoker. But of course if they meet I think it will be a comedic get away like before. But I htink he will pose as a bigger threat down the road, because I dont think the way he is set up to go after luffy will end in a lost cause.
For smoker to be a big timer he needs to have the physical ability to take down important people. Its more than survival. He has to be strong enough for someone like BB, Ace, or luffy to even care about fighting him. Luffy and Ace didn't care about him back in alabasta and we haven't seen anything to tell us different since.
Well as far as ive seen luffy only cares about fighting people that have done wrong doings to other people, so its not that smoker is to weak for luffy to want to fight him, its just that why should luffy fight him.
He has no reason to, and most likely after the loguetown meeting he probably wants to avoid a confrontation.. -
Yea your right Smoker is not a Big Threat even though he will end all the SHs.(if they fought)
Yea he not a Big Timer even if his logia powers equals Ace's.
Yea Smoker not a Big Timer even if he has a trump card that will end Ace.(sea stone)
Smoker is above Ace. But yea your right hes not a Big Timer.
Smoker dont got alot of character deveopment hes not a Big Timer HUH?? guess you think the same about Mihawk, Doflamingo, and Sengoku, grap and so on.
Oh yea and that bounty argument just helps me out you know b/c Smoker is looking for someone "worthwhile to fight", and made fun of the marines standards.
In the words of Phenom "you have No eye for talent".
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Yea your right Smoker is not a Big Threat even though he will end all the SHs.(if they fought)
Yea he not a Big Timer even if his logia powers equals Ace's.
Yea Smoker not a Big Timer even if he has a trump card that will end Ace.(sea stone)
Smoker is above Ace. But yea your right hes not a Big Timer.
Smoker dont got alot of character deveopment hes not a Big Timer HUH?? guess you think the same about Mihawk, Doflamingo, and Sengoku, grap and so on.
Oh yea and that bounty argument just helps me out you know b/c Smoker is looking for someone "worthwhile to fight", and made fun of the marines standards.
In the words of Phenom "you have No eye for talent".
Where do you get this stuff?
1. How do you know he would tear up all the strawhats? The last time he took on the strawhats was several arcs ago and he was not the big timer then. He watched the strawhats take out crocodile. If he was truly tougher than luffy, He would have done it all himself.2. We have not seen any serious smoker vs ace fight to judge who is superior to who.
3. The seastone trick can only work once. If seastone was what decided fights every high end fighter would use it. But so far, only crappy marines and smoker use seastone. What does that tell you about smoker? He needs a crutch.
4. With big timers, we are either shown that they are strong or we are shown that they are strong.This will be continued.
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Where do you get this stuff?
1. How do you know he would tear up all the strawhats? The last time he took on the strawhats was several arcs ago and he was not the big timer then. He watched the strawhats take out crocodile. If he was truly tougher than luffy, He would have done it all himself.Guess you think the same thing about Aokiji Huh???? (your logic is bad)
Just cuz someone gets a/few arcs old dont mean the SH are stronger then them. Especially when they have not lost/beat the SH. (Smoker and Aokiji)Last time I checked Luffy was running for his life when he saw Smoker.
Wonder why????? maybe its b/c Smoker is stronger then Luffy.
Where do I get it from??????? its called logic.
How is luffy going to beat Smoker????? you let me know.2. We have not seen any serious smoker vs ace fight to judge who is superior to who
Well they are both logias right???? who has an advantage? Smoker does(sea stone)
3. The seastone trick can only work once. If seastone was what decided fights every high end fighter would use it. But so far, only crappy marines and smoker use seastone. What does that tell you about smoker? He needs a crutch.
Dont get mad b/c Smoker is well rounded. The man has a strong DF and sea stone for other DF user and he is good in close range combat. This man knows what he is doing. BIG TIMER
4. With big timers, we are either shown that they are strong or we are shown that they are strong.
I agree. (more like Ive been saying that for how long)
This will be continued.
Il be waiting grass hopper.
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Guess you think the same thing about Aokiji Huh???? (your logic is bad)
Just cuz someone gets a/few arcs old dont mean the SH are stronger then them. Especially when they have not lost/beat the SH. (Smoker and Aokiji)Last time I checked Luffy was running for his life when he saw Smoker.
Wonder why????? maybe its b/c Smoker is stronger then Luffy.
Where do I get it from??????? its called logic.
How is luffy going to beat Smoker????? you let me know.Well they are both logias right???? who has an advantage? Smoker does(sea stone)
Dont get mad b/c Smoker is well rounded. The man has a strong DF and sea stone for other DF user and he is good in close range combat. This man knows what he is doing. BIG TIMER
I agree. (more like Ive been saying that for how long)
Il be waiting grass hopper.
1. smoker and aokiji are not parallel examples. Aokiji raped the strawhat crew when he fought them and he fought them much more recently. He displayed a huge gap in power between them and was thus the inspiration for luffys power jump. Aokiji was much like Mihawk in that way. Also, as his motives show, he later had no reason to become involved in fighting either the strawhats or their opponents the cp9.
Smoker on the other hand, merely showed minor combat superiority against luffy in loguetown. There was no instant KO although luffy did lose. Smoker was not so strong as to inspire luffy to get stronger. Later in alabasta, luffy is not interested in smoker and really doesn't see him as an enemy. Its a completely one-sided fight in terms of interest. When crocodile is taking out the country, luffy is the one who drops crocodile. Smoker never even tries even though he should have many reasons to. IE, crocodile is betraying the world government and smoker hates him to begin with. Problem was that smoker would have lost to crocodile. Smoker is not shikibukai lvl. Having no major weaknesses does not translate into powerful. He has not shown daunting strength like any of the other big characters have shown.
2. Using seastone is not an indication of well-roundedness. It is rather an indication of offensive weakness. Since his df powers are not terribly offensive, he needs a seastone poker to make up for his own shortcomings. It is his combat crutch.
3. Its nice that you agree about big timers because that means that smoker is not one. He has neither big impressive title or devastating display of strength. One of the 2 is necessary for him to be in there and speculation on the subject is just inadequate. We can only make assumptions about his strength from what we have already seen of him, not what we think he may gotten since we last saw him. Your argument needs something to stand on in other words.
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Guess you think the same thing about Aokiji Huh???? (your logic is bad)
Just cuz someone gets a/few arcs old dont mean the SH are stronger then them. Especially when they have not lost/beat the SH. (Smoker and Aokiji)Last time I checked Luffy was running for his life when he saw Smoker.
Wonder why????? maybe its b/c Smoker is stronger then Luffy.
Where do I get it from??????? its called logic.
How is luffy going to beat Smoker????? you let me know.Well they are both logias right???? who has an advantage? Smoker does(sea stone)
Dont get mad b/c Smoker is well rounded. The man has a strong DF and sea stone for other DF user and he is good in close range combat. This man knows what he is doing. BIG TIMER
I agree. (more like Ive been saying that for how long)
Il be waiting grass hopper.
You really think Smoker owned Luffy don't you. And what DF does Smoker have? a logia, the so-called non-cheap fruit by your standards. hmmm… Your parallels as always are bad. You compare a character titled the strongest admiral to a character who relied on the SHs to take out Croc b/c he was incapable of doing it. This is why he was pissed about getting promoted for doing something he couldn't do. It was his pride that got him pissed off. If he could have waltzed in and pimpslapped Croc (like Aokiji could have), he wouldn't have been so upset about getting the credit.
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Wrong, I assume this because croc has had more time to explore with his logia. Logia fruits don't get stronger with physical training they get stronger
through exploration. I use aokiji as an example.Again, why are you assuming this? How well you use a logia is based based on just that….how well you use it. How can you say that Ace isn't more skilled then Croc, despite being younger?
I mean, Aokiji at Ohara seems a lot of Aokiji at long ring island. That and, just because Croc is older doesn't mean that the time he spent learning his fruit is worth more then the time that Ace spent learning his fruit.
Experience can be a bitch, cause some people learn faster then others. This "experience" talk is all a baseless assumption.
These two aren't logia's.
Yes, but they are (most likely) younger then the "older, more experienced" Crocodile. Yet, they're most likely stronger.
Croc owned luffy twice, he then lost because his logias powers were made worthless.
Again, that was another example of Croc's "experience" being worhtless.
@ freedom
Luffy's fruit gets stronger through physical training logias get stronger through experience in using the fruit or exploration.
Ace all around is far stronger than croc but in a logia vs logia only, croc would win.
Sand extinguishes fire if thrown on top of it. Sand must remain near fire not on top, to be melted. Croc has more experience with the fruit so it is natural his sand has become very strong, as we've seen its harder than stone.
Ace hasn't had his fruit as long which means it's less developed than crocs, so in logia ve logia I have to give croc victory.
In a fight ace wins.
BS! You do not know how logia's "get stronger." While it's true that logia's aren't physical, we can't say what makes sach logia "more skilled" then the other. Frankly, they all seems to share the same proficiently.
However, you need to stop with the "sand extingushes fire" thing, cause that's limited thinking. Yes, sand extinguishes fire…but only if you put a larger amount of sand on the fire.
It's the same with water. You don't just throw a bucket of water on a burning building and expect it to work. You need an amount of water proportionate to the amount of fire!
So, we can't say "sand would beat fire" until we know for a fact how much of their respective element they can produce. And I would say that Ace wins since Croc should need more to put out the fire.
And that's even if Ace's fire can be put out. Have you ever thought that Ace's fire was produced by his devil fruit? Unlike normal fire, the source of Ace's fire is a human.
Onemoment whats stoping Aokiji from freezing Ace??????
And I ask you:
How do I freeze fire?
Smoker is not dumb.
He will know what to do with his sea stone. Ace has no way of hurting Smoker.
Smoker has sea stone and will hurt Ace with it.
Smoker will win. period
Canon
Ace is not dumb.
Ace will not let himself get hit just such a weapon. Plus, he could easily melt the metal staff.
Even if Smoker "hurt" Ace with the staff, how much damage can it do. Ace showed no sign of a strength disadvantage to Smoker, so I don't see how it's an "ace in the hole for smokes"
Smoker didn't beat Ace last time. Canon. Smoker had the jutte and yet the fight had no determined winner.
And quit bringing up the "ace ran." Thing. Ace wanted to catch up with Luffy, and the fight with Smoker was going nowhere. If Ace didn't leave then he would have missed Luffy. That and, Ace didn't want to beat Smoker. Different people have different conditions for victory.
However, I personally think that Smoker might be stronger then Ace ,if only slightly. It's just that I hate your reasonings for it.
I mean, by your definition Smoker should be stronger then any DF user cause of his jutte. But I doubt that's the case.
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Don't you all remember?: Ace and Smoker already fought and it came out in a draw.
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Don't you all remember?: Ace and Smoker already fought and it came out in a draw.
Exactly! I don't know that why we even argue this.
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And I ask you:
How do I freeze fire?
Let be real here Aokiji is the strongest admiral. you think he will lose to Ace????? Hell No! If thats the case WB pirates are stronger then the Marines???? do you agree with that cuz I dont. Ice age kill off Ace's sun any day of the week!
Ace is not dumb.
Ace will not let himself get hit just such a weapon. Plus, he could easily melt the metal staff.
It sea stone what does sea stone do? cancel out DF powers.
Even if Smoker "hurt" Ace with the staff, how much damage can it do. Ace showed no sign of a strength disadvantage to Smoker, so I don't see how it's an "ace in the hole for smokes"
"They are equal" when smoker dont use his sea stone. now when he uses his sea stone they are not equals. again 2 boxers are equals give one some brass knucles they are not equals any more. in this case smokers the one with the brass. lets not forget Ace DONT KNOW ITS SEA STONE!
Smoker didn't beat Ace last time. Canon. Smoker had the jutte and yet the fight had no determined winner.
Did Smoker use it No. last time I checked Ace ran!
And quit bringing up the "ace ran." Thing. Ace wanted to catch up with Luffy, and the fight with Smoker was going nowhere. If Ace didn't leave then he would have missed Luffy. That and, Ace didn't want to beat Smoker. Different people have different conditions for victory.
Another excuse. Again there are equals when Smoker dont use his sea stone.
However, I personally think that Smoker might be stronger then Ace ,if only slightly. It's just that I hate your reasonings for it.
Smoker is well rounded….....they are equals when smoker dont use his sea stone.
We seen Ace go all out. Did we see Smoker go all out???
I mean, by your definition Smoker should be stronger then any DF user cause of his jutte. But I doubt that's the case.
WE have to wait and see all Big Timers in action then we can say who what.
…................are you 4 real.
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1. smoker and aokiji are not parallel examples. Aokiji raped the strawhat crew when he fought them and he fought them much more recently. He displayed a huge gap in power between them and was thus the inspiration for luffys power jump. Aokiji was much like Mihawk in that way. Also, as his motives show, he later had no reason to become involved in fighting either the strawhats or their opponents the cp9.
Smoker can rape the SH tell me how SH can beat Smoker?????
Aokiji rape the SH smoker had to get stop by DRAGON a Big Timer.Smoker on the other hand, merely showed minor combat superiority against luffy in loguetown. There was no instant KO although luffy did lose. Smoker was not so strong as to inspire luffy to get stronger. Later in alabasta, luffy is not interested in smoker and really doesn't see him as an enemy. Its a completely one-sided fight in terms of interest. When crocodile is taking out the country, luffy is the one who drops crocodile. Smoker never even tries even though he should have many reasons to. IE, crocodile is betraying the world government and smoker hates him to begin with. Problem was that smoker would have lost to crocodile. Smoker is not shikibukai lvl. Having no major weaknesses does not translate into powerful. He has not shown daunting strength like any of the other big characters have shown.
LOL Smoker was not impressed with the Luffy not one bit even with his gears how is he going to beat Smoker?????
How do you know smoker would have lost to croc?????
Luffy would have been killed by smoker if he tried to fight him.
That why Luffy ran. B/c luffy has no way of beating Smoker!2. Using seastone is not an indication of well-roundedness. It is rather an indication of offensive weakness. Since his df powers are not terribly offensive, he needs a seastone poker to make up for his own shortcomings. It is his combat crutch.
That what you think, smoker sea stone is for other DF user period.
He dont even use it that much.3. Its nice that you agree about big timers because that means that smoker is not one. He has neither big impressive title or devastating display of strength. One of the 2 is necessary for him to be in there and speculation on the subject is just inadequate. We can only make assumptions about his strength from what we have already seen of him, not what we think he may gotten since we last saw him. Your argument needs something to stand on in other words.
Smoker would have a much higher rank if he didnt have such an additude.
Smoker has not went all out on anyone yet!. Smoker = Big Timer. -
Smoker can rape the SH tell me how SH can beat Smoker?????
Aokiji rape the SH smoker had to get stop by DRAGON a Big Timer.I doubt that Smoker could "Rape" Luffy anymore. He'd still probably win, but Luffy has improved a helluva lot since their last fight. Smoker's only up to taking down 50 million guys down right now, Luffy did that 200 chapters ago with one punch.
LOL Smoker was not impressed with the Luffy not one bit even with his gears how is he going to beat Smoker?????
How do you know smoker would have lost to croc?????
Luffy would have been killed by smoker if he tried to fight him.
That why Luffy ran. B/c luffy has no way of beaing smoker!Dude, Crocodile DID beat Smoker, technically. If Luffy hadn't ordered Zoro to save his life, he'd be dead right now.
That what you think, smoker sea stone is for other DF user period.
He dont even use it that much.We don't know how he fights now, he could have learned some new moves since we last saw him. He doesn't wear his jacket anymore, which brings the question how his jutte can be touching him and his powers not be neutralized.
Smoker would have a mich higher rank if he didnt have such an additude.
Smoker has not went all out on anyone yet!."Tell them to EAT SHIT!!!!"
Forget that line?
But it's ironic anyway, because he got promoted to Commodore anywhere.
I called it wrong, so long ago. I guess this needs to be changed.
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You really think Smoker owned Luffy don't you. And what DF does Smoker have? a logia, the so-called non-cheap fruit by your standards. hmmm… Your parallels as always are bad. You compare a character titled the strongest admiral to a character who relied on the SHs to take out Croc b/c he was incapable of doing it. This is why he was pissed about getting promoted for doing something he couldn't do. It was his pride that got him pissed off. If he could have waltzed in and pimpslapped Croc (like Aokiji could have), he wouldn't have been so upset about getting the credit.
Yeah because we all KNOW that locking Smoker up in a seastone cage and Crocodile avoiding any conflict with him means that Smoker was incapable of beating Crocodile in a fair fight.
Thou he slay me, yet shall I trust him!!!!
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Yeah because we all KNOW that locking Smoker up in a seastone cage and Crocodile avoiding any conflict with him means that Smoker was incapable of beating Crocodile in a fair fight.http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/5/29/41941/rolleyes.gif
LOL
I was refering to after Smoker got out of the cage and became aware of what was really going on. -
Again, why are you assuming this? How well you use a logia is based based on just that….how well you use it. How can you say that Ace isn't more skilled then Croc, despite being younger?
Take two martial artists (who are equal, since fruits are all the same at the beginning) one has trained for 5 years one two years who will have a better technique?
I mean, Aokiji at Ohara seems a lot of Aokiji at long ring island. That and,
Aokiji in ohara did what freeze a giant? Todays aokiji bent over and froze massive amounts of the ocean.
just because Croc is older doesn't mean that the time he spent learning his fruit is worth more then the time that Ace spent learning his fruit.
If your planning to take over arabasta I think he'd be training since the WG wouldn't be very happy with his desicion.
Experience can be a bitch, cause some people learn faster then others. This "experience" talk is all a baseless assumption.
Almost all the DF users we've seen have shown more powerful moves the second time we see them. Luffy couldn't use gears when he first got it. Look at him now. Look at lucci's fruit techniques compared to kaku, who looked like he was making stuff up on the spot.It brings me to the conclusion of all DF's have a base value of 0 and when you use it and explore it you learn new abilities.
Yes, but they are (most likely) younger then the "older, more experienced" Crocodile. Yet, they're most likely stronger.
They had no need to train their fruit they trained their bodies, like how luffy and zoro have shown their physical strength has increased dramatically in such a short period of time. Alot faster than luffy learning techniques.
Again, that was another example of Croc's "experience" being worhtless.
So leaving luffy for dead is being worthless? Strange logic
BS! You do not know how logia's "get stronger." While it's true that logia's aren't physical, we can't say what makes sach logia "more skilled" then the other. Frankly, they all seems to share the same proficiently.
From how Oda has shown aokiji's power difference, it's most likely over time.
However, you need to stop with the "sand extingushes fire" thing, cause that's limited thinking. Yes, sand extinguishes fire…but only if you put a larger amount of sand on the fire.
With an equal amount of sand and fire, you'll see the fire gets extinguished. Or have you never tried?
It's the same with water. You don't just throw a bucket of water on a burning building and expect it to work. You need an amount of water proportionate to the amount of fire!
Water is completly different since it contains oxygen, if you don't concentrate waterin one spot. The oxygen within it will act as fuel for the fire.
So, we can't say "sand would beat fire" until we know for a fact how much of their respective element they can produce. And I would say that Ace wins since Croc should need more to put out the fire.
Once again an equal amount of each is enough for sand to win. Croc create sand storms which contain a hellava lot of sand!
And that's even if Ace's fire can be put out. Have you ever thought that Ace's fire was produced by his devil fruit? Unlike normal fire, the source of Ace's fire is a human.
They would both have this since they are both DF users, so that wouldn't be a factor.
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I doubt that Smoker could "Rape" Luffy anymore. He'd still probably win, but Luffy has improved a helluva lot since their last fight. Smoker's only up to taking down 50 million guys down right now, Luffy did that 200 chapters ago with one punch.
LOL smoker did you not read what smoker said after he beat that guy with the weak bounty.Luffy cant beat smoker. it will be the same as it was in smokers town.
Dude, Crocodile DID beat Smoker, technically. If Luffy hadn't ordered Zoro to save his life, he'd be dead right now.
You act like Croc ko and punch him in to the water. Croc had smoker in a sea stone cage the only thing that going to save luffy from him.
We don't know how he fights now, he could have learned some new moves since we last saw him. He doesn't wear his jacket anymore, which brings the question how his jutte can be touching him and his powers not be neutralized.
Its hot touching him it is hook on his strap.
"Tell them to EAT SHIT!!!!"
Forget that line?
But it's ironic anyway, because he got promoted to Commodore anywhere.
You love to ignore facts.…..Smoker also works at his own pace.
The man told the 5 stars the highest authority of the WORLD to eat shit!
Smoker do as he please. -
LOL
I was refering to after Smoker got out of the cage and became aware of what was really going on.As soon as Smoker got out of the cage he was unconcious under WATER!!!!
Thou he slay me, yet shall I trust him!!!!
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As soon as Smoker got out of the cage he was unconcious under WATER!!!!
Now you're just being difficult. LOL
After Smoker got out of the cage, almost drowned, got saved by Zoro, had his talk with Luffy, and let Luffy go after Crocodile.
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LOL!- Why wouldn't the main characters in the story go and fight Crocodile and beat him anyways??? You realized he did Kill Luffy (left him for dead), I know that would NOT happen to Smoker. Would you rather have Smoker do it? My point is Smoker and Crocodile never fought head up
Thou he slay me, yet shall I trust him!!!!
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Smoker can rape the SH tell me how SH can beat Smoker????? Aokiji rape the SH smoker had to get stop by DRAGON a Big Timer. ```You have a strange and poor understanding of raped. See, it fits in the aokiji case because He froze luffy in one serious attack. He displayed a huge power difference showing he could basically instant ko the whole crew. Smoker had to take luffy down the slow way and pin him. There was no instant ko. Sure both he and aokiji won but the how is what I am talking about. Then a big timer came and smoker could do nothing about it. This is what I am talking about and it is good that you bring it up. When real big timers enter the situation, there is nothing lower ranked people can do about it. If smoker were as tough as you say, Dragon should have needed to make an effort to free luffy from his clutches. Yet all smoker could do was ask why. When I use raped, I am basically using it as a short for a gigantic power difference.LOL Smoker was not impressed with the Luffy not one bit even with his gears how is he going to beat Smoker?????
How do you know smoker would have lost to croc?????
Luffy would have been killed by smoker if he tried to fight him.
That why Luffy ran. B/c luffy has no way of beating Smoker!All we have recently seen from smoker is taking down a 50 mil bounty with ease. Like I said before, Luffy wasn't impressed with 55mil bounties a long time ago, so the fact that smoker is slapping down 50mil bounties tells us nothing of his strength compared to luffy at this point.Smoker would have a much higher rank if he didnt have such an additude.
Smoker has not went all out on anyone yet!.
Smoker = Big Timer.wow using quote tags is weird. The other mistake people make is assuming smoker has no weaknesses. We have seen very few fights from him, thus we have seen no fights where his weakness is revealed. He probably has a weakness just like croc and enel, and we will see it someday. Maybe luffy will eat him like he tried with croc. -
This post is deleted!
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Let be real here Aokiji is the strongest admiral. you think he will lose to Ace????? Hell No! If thats the case WB pirates are stronger then the Marines???? do you agree with that cuz I dont. Ice age kill off Ace's sun any day of the week!
Aokiji's life status isn't an issue here. I'm comparing both men on their abilites.
Ace beating Aokiji doesn't mean that the marines as a whole are weaker then the Whitebeard Pirates. However, it is possible that the Whitebead Pirates can mess up the marines, maybe not all of them, but maybe as least Majorea.
Ace is fire, and Aokiji is ice. If seems like Aokiji is at a disadvantage here. Also, Ace and Aokiji are both skilled fighters, how do we say who's stronger? Age isn't a deciding factor.
To "freeze ice" Aokiji's ice wouldn't have to be immensely more cold then Ace's fire is hot. That doesn't seem likely. But Aokiji's being the strongest Admiral doesn't mean that he's automatically stronger then Ace. Ace is a "big timer."
It sea stone what does sea stone do? cancel out DF powers.
Yes…if it touches you. If I stabbed Smoker in his sleep I could probably kill him, but I don't think that will happen.
"They are equal" when smoker dont use his sea stone. now when he uses his sea stone they are not equals. again 2 boxers are equals give one some brass knucles they are not equals any more. in this case smokers the one with the brass. lets not forget Ace DONT KNOW ITS SEA STONE!
We didn't see the entire fight. Also, Ace will know when it touches him. Afterwards, if depends on whether or not Ace survives the next attack, which is very likely. Blackbeard pulled a similar move "taking DF powers" and Ace wasn't immediately out of the fight.
After that, like both fighters announced, their powers are useless against each other. We saw it happen, their should be no argument. Smoker decided no to yet the jutte for a reason.
Did Smoker use it No. last time I checked Ace ran!
You really don't listen. We didn't see the entire fight. Also, Ace ran cause he wanted to see Luffy. Ace didn't have any problems with Smoker, he smiled even after Smoker slammed him face into the ground. Why go all the way and defeat some guy he barely new?
No everyone shares your sense of…whatever. He ran cause he didn't want to finish the fight.
Another excuse. Again there are equals when Smoker dont use his sea stone.
If Crocodile touched every opponent he meant, then he could kill pretty much every fighter in the world. Yet, that attack doesn't always work, as Luffy showed us.
The jutte is an obvious weapon, and not the only move that Smoker knows. Using the same move over and over is a bad strategy. And, why can't Ace melt it? Just a little fire and the top will fall off.
Smoker is well rounded….....they are equals when smoker dont use his sea stone.
I wonder, what if Ace had seastone too? Or anyone else? If seastone was all it took then more DF users would be gone by now.
We seen Ace go all out. Did we see Smoker go all out???
No, but we saw them fight to a draw.
WE have to wait and see all Big Timers in action then we can say who what.
Well, I see Smoker and Ace as big timers. Losing to Blackbeard doesn't change his status. At this point, BB is probably stronger then quite a few world power members. Probably most of the shichibukai and admirals.
Also, for the record Smoker is probably stronger then Crocodile. I'm just basing this on the fact that Smoker is still chasing the SHs, while SH Luffy beat Croc. So, if Smoker is weaker then Croc then he shouldn't be a threat anymore.
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You have a strange and poor understanding of raped. See, it fits in the aokiji case because He froze luffy in one serious attack. He displayed a huge power difference showing he could basically instant ko the whole crew.
Huh???????? lets look at it again.
LUFFY GOT RAPED,JUST LIKE ACE!
Smoker had to take luffy down the slow way and pin him. There was no instant ko. Sure both he and aokiji won but the how is what I am talking about. Then a big timer came and smoker could do nothing about it. This is what I am talking about and it is good that you bring it up. When real big timers enter the situation, there is nothing lower ranked people can do about it. If smoker were as tough as you say, Dragon should have needed to make an effort to free luffy from his clutches. Yet all smoker could do was ask why.
Are you for real smoker is low ranked b/c of his attitude! I guess you think bounty = power always which is a
When I use raped, I am basically using it as a short for a gigantic power difference.
ACE GOT RAPED BY BB! LUFFY GOT RAPED BY SMOKER!
BB was incontrol of the fight hole time/ Smoker was in control of the fight the hole time. Ace and luffy got raped.Like I said before, smoker wasn't impressed with a 30 mil luffy. We now have a 300 mil luffy. The old impression is not going to tell us much any more. We do not have luffy as we had in loguetown. Luffy doesn't need to fight with smoker, cause he holds no interest in smoker and when smoker cannot even lay a hand on luffy it will be that obvious.
bounty dont always = power.
Luffy cant do anything to smoker. Smoker will rape Luff even if he had a bounty of 9,999,999,999,999,999,999. B/c bounty dont always = power.
So how is luffy going to beat smoker?????All we have recently seen from smoker is taking down a 50 mil bounty with ease. Like I said before, Luffy wasn't impressed with 55mil bounties a long time ago, so the fact that smoker is slapping down 50mil bounties tells us nothing of his strength compared to luffy at this point.
Bounty's dont always = power.
Luffy can do nothing but run from smoker????? Luffy bounty is 300 mil.
Smoker is not impressed.Problem is, we don't know how much higher his rank would have been. He was a very low rank before. Being much lower than he deserves could mean a whole ton of things. In fact, with his promotion after "taking down croc" He might be up to the rank he deserves already. His being an ass doesn't make him strong.
It dont get him high ranked either. Dont trip smoker is working on his communication skill and with his strength he could(more like be) a vice or Admiral.
Just wait till we see him again.
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LOL!- Why wouldn't the main characters in the story go and fight Crocodile and beat him anyways??? You realized he did Kill Luffy (left him for dead), I know that would NOT happen to Smoker. Would you rather have Smoker do it? My point is Smoker and Crocodile never fought head up
I'm not going to make a big point of this. Why was Smoker so pissed about getting credit for taking down Croc? You think it was only his "Sense of Justice" and b/c Tashigi was upset, well if you think that's the only reason, so be it. I think there's a bit more to it.
@onemoment - i've already tried explaining why # of years experience isn't a good judging factor, but it's been useless. Titles rule all in their book, even though we have no solid proof other than "there are even crazier guys on the blue sea" as evidence for abilities to defeat logias.
Arguments such as throwing an equal amount of sand on fire will extinquish it are rather fickle. Try throwing an equal amount of sand on an equal amount of molten lava, let's not forget Ace created a mini-sun, wonder how hot that was. We don't know how hot Ace's fire can become, and we don't know how much sand Croc can produce. Him fighting in a desert was a huge advantage for him and I think this skewed our view on the extent of his abilities a bit.
Similar with Aokiji, Ice is indeed a powerful elemnet, however, there's an absolutely zero that is reached once a substance gets cold enough, while there is no limit with heat, you can heat an object till it evaporates. Just saying, Aokiji has displayed more skill w/ his DF doesn't mean anything if his DF is useless against someone else. The most accurate point from the manga that can be used is that Aokiji is the strongest Admiral, everything else is speculation.
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Aokiji's life status isn't an issue here. I'm comparing both men on their abilites.
We have yet to see Aokiji go all out, unlike Ace who got stut down down! by 3 hits. That would not happen to Aokiji.
Ace beating Aokiji doesn't mean that the marines as a whole are weaker then the Whitebeard Pirates. However, it is possible that the Whitebead Pirates can mess up the marines, maybe not all of them, but maybe as least Majorea.
WTF! thats like saying if smoker beats WB that dont mean he can beat any other WB pirate.
Ace is fire, and Aokiji is ice. If seems like Aokiji is at a disadvantage here. Also, Ace and Aokiji are both skilled fighters, how do we say who's stronger? Age isn't a deciding factor.
Ice can freeze fire!
To "freeze ice" Aokiji's ice wouldn't have to be immensely more cold then Ace's fire is hot. That doesn't seem likely. But Aokiji's being the strongest Admiral doesn't mean that he's automatically stronger then Ace. Ace is a "big timer."
No Ace is not a Big Timer.
Aokiji ice is immensely cold. Being the strongest admiral a guy who fights yonkou…...I think yes.Yes…if it touches you. If I stabbed Smoker in his sleep I could probably kill him, but I don't think that will happen.
We didn't see the entire fight. Also, Ace will know when it touches him. Afterwards, if depends on whether or not Ace survives the next attack, which is very likely. Blackbeard pulled a similar move "taking DF powers" and Ace wasn't immediately out of the fight.Ace got raped by BB. Lets do it again you say Ace and smoker powers are equal. Smoker has sea stone.
Winner smoker.
it just like if 2 boxers are equal, give one some brass knuckles who is going to win. in this case smoker is the one with the brass. (Sea stone)After that, like both fighters announced, their powers are useless against each other. We saw it happen, their should be no argument. Smoker decided no to yet the jutte for a reason.
If Aces was stoped by smoker this story would suck!
You really don't listen. We didn't see the entire fight. Also, Ace ran cause he wanted to see Luffy. Ace didn't have any problems with Smoker, he smiled even after Smoker slammed him face into the ground. Why go all the way and defeat some guy he barely new?
again if smoker use his sea stone it would have been over for Ace and we would not get to see him get raped by BB.
If Crocodile touched every opponent he meant, then he could kill pretty much every fighter in the world. Yet, that attack doesn't always work, as Luffy showed us.
B/c Luffy knew about it the 3rd time he fought croc!
It worked the 1st croc used it.The jutte is an obvious weapon, and not the only move that Smoker knows. Using the same move over and over is a bad strategy. And, why can't Ace melt it? Just a little fire and the top will fall off.
Why cant Smoker use his smoke to kill off some oxygen around Ace so it will be alot harder for Ace to get a fire going.
I wonder, what if Ace had seastone too? Or anyone else? If seastone was all it took then more DF users would be gone by now.
Ace dont got any sea stone. We saw him go all out and pull all his trump cards.
No, but we saw them fight to a draw.
We didnt see any fight.
Well, I see Smoker and Ace as big timers. Losing to Blackbeard doesn't change his status. At this point, BB is probably stronger then quite a few world power members. Probably most of the shichibukai and admirals.
and the 7 Gods = Admirals = Yonkou.
So I guess BB is stronger then a few Yonkou 2.
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http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/5/29/41941/alol.gif bounty dont always = power.
Luffy cant do anything to smoker. Smoker will rape Luff even if he had a bounty of 9,999,999,999,999,999,999. B/c bounty dont always = power.
So how is luffy going to beat smoker?????http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/5/29/41941/nono.gif
Bounty's dont always = power.
Luffy can do nothing but run from smoker????? Luffy bounty is 300 mil.
Smoker is not impressed.And you say Logias aren't cheap eh!
Would you be so adamant with your statements if Smoker didn't have a Logia DF and had used physical strength to "rape" Luffy in Loguetown?
If you can give one point besides the fact that Smoker is a logia towards Luffy not being able to beat him, you'd have a point. Also, aren't you one of the pioneers of the "cutting the sky is nothing, therefore, they can cut logias" theory? or is this theory only available to characters w/ weapons? -
And you say Logias aren't cheap eh!
Would you be so adamant with your statements if Smoker didn't have a Logia DF and had used physical strength to "rape" Luffy in Loguetown?
If you can give one point besides the fact that Smoker is a logia towards Luffy not being able to beat him, you'd have a point. Also, aren't you one of the pioneers of the "cutting the sky is nothing, therefore, they can cut logias" theory? or is this theory only available to characters w/ weapons?There not cheap.
What are you tryin to say now freedom????.
Smoker got that sea stone/weapon for a reason he called luffy weak for a reason.
May be its b/c luffy could not hurt him. where other can.(BIG TIMERS cuting sky ring bells)
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Arguments such as throwing an equal amount of sand on fire will extinquish it are rather fickle. Try throwing an equal amount of sand on an equal amount of molten lava, let's not forget Ace created a mini-sun, wonder how hot that was. We don't know how hot Ace's fire can become, and we don't know how much sand Croc can produce. Him fighting in a desert was a huge advantage for him and I think this skewed our view on the extent of his abilities a bit.
Croc's sand isn't normal it's super sand!! He destroyed stone with his sand without even trying. If ace has molten lava, croc has the equivilent of molten lava strength+10.
Maybe fighting in the desert skewed our view on his powers and maybe it didn't you decide on that. The way I see it is if he wasn't an extremly powerful pirate the WG wouldn't have offered him a shichibukai position. He only lost because of his water weakness otherwise he would have owned luffy again.
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I'm not going to make a big point of this. Why was Smoker so pissed about getting credit for taking down Croc? You think it was only his "Sense of Justice" and b/c Tashigi was upset, well if you think that's the only reason, so be it. I think there's a bit more to it.
Are you serously saying that Smoker was pissed because he could NOT beat Crocodile in a one on one fight??? (please say yes)!:wassat:
Thou he slay me, yet shall I trust him!!!!
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well guys don't compare ace to aokiji or smoker to croc
and luffy will beat smoker sometime,as impossible as it seems there will be a way to hit logia users,maybe with spirit force,sanji made his legs to produce fire from the fire of his heart as oda said,zoro's spirit created projections,shanks spirit made people faint
i know zoro will cut elements and sanji will figure something with his legs but luffy will definately hit a logia,he owes smoker and aokiji a spanking and as the main character he WILL GIVE IT
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There not cheap.
What are you tryin to say now freedom????.
Smoker got that sea stone/weapon for a reason he called luffy weak for a reason.
May be its b/c luffy could not hurt him. where other can.(BIG TIMERS cuting sky ring bells)
I already said what i'm trying to say. Should I quote it a second time?
This is exactly the point I want to make. Luffy cannot hurt him b/c he's a logia, not b/c of anything else.
@OIP - i'm not saying Crocodile is weak, I think Crocodile is very deserving of his Shichibukai title. I think he displayed a great control of his DF abilities. My main point is that they're both logia's and it could go either way. Saying Croc has more years experience w/ his DF than Ace does w/ his is a bad comparison IMO. I think it's hard to judge the outcome, yet you seem to think that Crocodile would definitely win.
Random comment - saying sand can be used to destroy buildings is ok, but this doesn't change the melting point of sand to my knowledge. feel free to educate me if you know differently.
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Are you serously saying that Smoker was pissed because he could NOT beat Crocodile in a one on one fight??? (please say yes)!:wassat:
I say "yes". is the boogie man gonna get me…
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Random comment - saying sand can be used to destroy buildings is ok, but this doesn't change the melting point of sand to my knowledge. feel free to educate me if you know differently.
I say "yes". is the boogie man gonna get me…
This is Anime/Manga Fantasy land!! Who says fire is going to melt sand?? Can you show me in real life sand CUTTING Bulidings and destroying TEMPLES!!?? Or how about Lightning hot enough NOT able to melt Rubber?!!!
Like I said we don't know how the fights will turn out all so you should shutup and wait for that to happen.
Crocodile vs. Smoker???
Thou he slay me, yet shall I trust him!!!!
