Cagliostro is fairly grounded. And Fuma too. And then there are some middling titles like Nostradamus, Jigens grave, Fujikos lie and bloodspray which have some elements of that but still aren't too far out. And then on the far end we have aliens, clone hitler and tentacle island
Lupin the 3rd
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Dead Or Alive ?
I sure hope that is the only one which could realistically be described that way. But in the tentacles defense it is nowhere near as disturbing as Goemons butt chin in that movie
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It's been a really long time since I saw Fuma, I can't remember the plot beyond that it involves a lot of Goemon and a clan. I guess what happened in Cagliostro is possible, but it certainly has a fanciful feel to it all.
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There's a difference between fanciful movie logic (like Lupin driving a car up a cliff face) and crazy sci fi can't possibly happen movie logic… like skynet playing a piano duet.
There's definitely a line and Lupin works better closer to the ground.
Or like, the first iron man was movie realistic, something akin to that could happen. Avengers Endgame was way out there beyond all logic and possibility..
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The fact that Lupin is supposed to be what amounts to Bugs Bunny in a human world is kind of lost when the surrounding world becomes superhuman as well. Like i mean Goemon for instance is always superhuman, but in a quite limited way, where as Lupin can pull literally any trick out of a hat and can't be caught or kept down unless he allows it. And an ideal Lupin movie is more about putting down a challenge and seeing how Lupin dicks around with that particular challenge/person than it is about him facing superior superhumans
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Well if we go with the premise from S5
! That Lupin is a title, there’s an open door for be similar individuals to him around the world.
Weird is really the superhuman samurai with the basically light saber katana.
But since when we let the truth be in the way of a good story?
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Well if we go with the premise from S5
! That Lupin is a title, there’s an open door for be similar individuals to him around the world.
Yeah no. That's stupid and awful and completely ruined Red vs. Green once it became clear that's where they were actually going with it.
You don't need a stupid excuse to explain why Lupin acts differently sometimes.
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where as Lupin can pull literally any trick out of a hat and can't be caught or kept down unless he allows it.
Or the writers decide to make Zenigata dangerously competent.
Yeah no. That's stupid and awful and completely ruined Red vs. Green once it became clear that's where they were actually going with it.
Yep.
You don't need a stupid excuse to explain why Lupin acts differently sometimes.
Yeah leave that for Fujiko.
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For me the ideal Zenigata portrayal is one where he is like 80% as competent as Lupin. He should always be able to play the game, and if he stacks the odds in his favour he could just almost reach the win. But he always falls just short. But always near enough that there is an honest respect for the challenge he provides by being a constant and unrelenting pain in the ass. Of course this does not mean that he can't be comic relief, i mean Lupin dunking on him is a fundamental part of this, but those portrayals where he is a 100% useless bungler feel way off the mark for what he is supposed to be in the leuwpahn universe
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Well if we go with the premise from S5
! That Lupin is a title, there’s an open door for be similar individuals to him around the world.
I'm quite interested to see if they go anywhere with this, like Robby said Red Vs. Green made a mess of the idea, but I find possibility that Lupin himself
! may simply be a disguise intriguing.
But mostly, I expect that particular plot point to never be mentioned again.
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For me the ideal Zenigata portrayal is one where he is like 80% as competent as Lupin. He should always be able to play the game, and if he stacks the odds in his favour he could just almost reach the win. But he always falls just short. But always near enough that there is an honest respect for the challenge he provides by being a constant and unrelenting pain in the ass. Of course this does not mean that he can't be comic relief, i mean Lupin dunking on him is a fundamental part of this, but those portrayals where he is a 100% useless bungler feel way off the mark for what he is supposed to be in the leuwpahn universe
Well said. If he isn't at least a little comical, it doesn't feel right, but I hate it when he's portrayed 100% as an incompetent idiot that only accidentally accomplishes anything. He's not fuggin' Inspector Gadget.
I'm quite interested to see if they go anywhere with this, like Robby said Red Vs. Green made a mess of the idea, but I find possibility that Lupin himself
! may simply be a disguise intriguing.
But mostly, I expect that particular plot point to never be mentioned again.
I have not seen Red v. Green, but I do not like that idea, really. As for what happened in S5, I took it a bit more metaphorically.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Just an aside, did anyone watch the live action Lupin series about the guy that is inspired by the Lupin books? It's not directly related to Lupin III of course, but I enjoyed it.
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I have not seen Red v. Green, but I do not like that idea, really.
It starts out really strong actually, with a guy inspired by Lupin that wants to be him, and that leads into a game of skills and one-upmanship..
But by the end of the film, the two of them get into a fight and the lighting changes so you can't tell which is is which anymore, so you don't know who actually won.
And both before and after the fight literally the entire cast is okay with the idea that their friend and comrade of years might be replaced by a lookalike. And even act like it maybe happened before.
And yeah that's a spoiler but I don't feel bad giving that one away because if you're not ready for that it easily wrecks the whole thing, but maybe if you know that's the real premise it goes down easier, I dunno.
But just… no. You do NOT need a meta explanation for the shifts.
The opening comparison was pretty neat though since you can actually tell which movie or series a given interpretation is from.
I used to be able to label most of them but that level of fandom is behind me now. Series looks, Cagliostro, and Gold of Babylon are all pretty easy but then it gets harder.
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And both before and after the fight literally the entire cast is okay with the idea that their friend and comrade of years might be replaced by a lookalike. And even act like it maybe happened before.
When you've seen some of the shit that's happened to some of the characters especially at the hands of one another negative continuity notwithstanding it's not that absurd.
The opening comparison was pretty neat though since you can actually tell which movie or series a given interpretation is from.
I mean you could if you watched all the material they were all pulled from otherwise that's a google search:ninja:
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When you've seen some of the shit that's happened to some of the characters especially at the hands of one another negative continuity notwithstanding it's not that absurd.
Yeah but if you do that then you have to at least apply that same process to Zenigata to explain his much more wild deviance. And Fujiko, who in the manga literally was a different woman every time "just played by the same actress."
Jigen and Goemon are fairly consistent but then a lot of the time they just have no idea at all what to do with Goemon so he's left out of things to just come in, cut one thing, and say the line.
I mean you could if you watched all the material they were all pulled from otherwise that's a google search:ninja:
Oh, that's no fun. That's not applying knowledge and going "oh yeah, THAT one!" that's just… being shown screenshots and told what they are.
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And both before and after the fight literally the entire cast is okay with the idea that their friend and comrade of years might be replaced by a lookalike. And even act like it maybe happened before.
Yeah that was my problem with it too, even by the shows normal standards it was just too weird how nonplussed everyone was with some random guy potentially taking over their friends life.
And, if I'm remembering right (It's been a while since I've watched it), didn't it hint that the old man who kept popping up had also been Lupin? Which makes even less sense.This is very much one of those shows where any attempt to explain the 'Whys' is probably doomed to failure.
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The only thing i can sort of recall about green vs red is that at some point the whole thing grinds to a halt for like a 10 minute long diatribe about nuclear weapons. My memory may be exaggerating how long it was, but when i first watched it it felt Hideo Kojima was guest directing that segment with his usual MGS brevity.
Just an aside, did anyone watch the live action Lupin series about the guy that is inspired by the Lupin books? It's not directly related to Lupin III of course, but I enjoyed it.
I've never read the books, do they have anything in common with what the Lupin franchise grew into?
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I’ve read the 6 books - actually 5 and two plays - and Arsène Gramps imo so far is a balanced version of Cagliostro, and Fujiko’s series Lupin.
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Yeah, as much as the idea of Lupin being different people is interesting by itself, I don't think it works for this story universe. I like that idea for say…Mad Max, because it's less about him as a character and more about the people around him.
I've never read the books, do they have anything in common with what the Lupin franchise grew into?
I haven't read them either. As we were watching the show, my husband kept asking me "so is that a thing Lupin III would do?"
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May have to add it to the to do list then.
So unpopular opinion alert here. I was watching albatross - wings of death earlier today. Which is a good episode and all, but you sort of get made aware of just how much Lupin gets remolded into a Miyazaki character. The villain is stock Miyazaki, Fujiko looks nothing like herself and behaves like Nausicaa, Zenigata gets this weird facelift and becomes a moron and Lupin is this sort of weird running around in his underwear eating noodles goofball. Like it all has this slightly off feel to it, it isn't bad in itself but i can't lose the feeling that this isn't an episode of the red jacket series as much as it is a Miyazaki project in a Lupin suit. Dunno maybe it's just me but i couldn't get fully into it due to this
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So unpopular opinion alert here.
Completely agree with everything but
Zenigata gets this weird facelift and becomes a moron
Zenigata has always been a moron. He's simply the only moron on the force who knows Lupin enough. But being smart has never been part of his character. He might get a victory (pyrrhic or otherwise) now and then, though he remains a moron through and through.
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Zenigata has always been a moron. He's simply the only moron on the force who knows Lupin enough. But being smart has never been part of his character. He might get a victory (pyrrhic or otherwise) now and then, though he remains a moron through and through.
How much of the franchise have you seen? Zenigata's competent and clever more often than not. It's why it's always so jarring when he's a complete idiot.
He can be a goof and do silly things, absolutely, the whole case can. He works best when he's the BEST cop, but Lupin is just that much better.
The entire reason Zen is even allowed to keep his job, despite not catching Lupin, is because he so consistently takes down lots and lots of bad guys and succeeds in other high profile cases… Lupin is the only failure, and literally no one in the world can catch him..
The occasions where he's treated as you describe and a complete moron are absolutely his worst outings. And every outing where they try to replace him always goes super badly for the "newer tougher deadlier" guy.
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How much of the franchise have you seen?
This might have to be it. I don't have the energy to go check the actual season and/or denomination, so to put it simply: I've watched all that was broadcast in Italy up until… 2009-ish? So up to Part III. And I haven't revisited it since. But I have this memory of Zenigata being the most incompetent guy around, even goofier than Lupin under Fujiko's spells.
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If your main exposure was red jacket tv series then they're all pretty goofy… they have to do a setup, action bit, and resolution in 20 minutes so things tend to be pretty loose.
If you actually watched pink jacket... well... everyone was weird and flandarized and nuts in that season.
The movies and tv specials with their longer run times balanced out the whole cast a bit better.
But no, when Zenigata is treated properly he is not a total moron. When he's treated badly, well... that's a fair assessment. He tends to shift wildly depending on the production.
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May have to add it to the to do list then.
So unpopular opinion alert here. I was watching albatross - wings of death earlier today. Which is a good episode and all, but you sort of get made aware of just how much Lupin gets remolded into a Miyazaki character. The villain is stock Miyazaki, Fujiko looks nothing like herself and behaves like Nausicaa, Zenigata gets this weird facelift and becomes a moron and Lupin is this sort of weird running around in his underwear eating noodles goofball. Like it all has this slightly off feel to it, it isn't bad in itself but i can't lose the feeling that this isn't an episode of the red jacket series as much as it is a Miyazaki project in a Lupin suit. Dunno maybe it's just me but i couldn't get fully into it due to this
I was wondering why I actually liked Fujiko in that one.
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The entire reason Zen is even allowed to keep his job, despite not catching Lupin, is because he so consistently takes down lots and lots of bad guys and succeeds in other high profile cases… Lupin is the only failure, and literally no one in the world can catch him..
Well that and Interpol and the Tokyo Metropolitan Police are weirdos. Since Red Jacket if I recall revealed Zenigata after the finale of Green Jacket got demoted after his last plan to capture Lupin went belly up (originally he put his job on the line).
May have to add it to the to do list then.
So unpopular opinion alert here. I was watching albatross - wings of death earlier today. Which is a good episode and all, but you sort of get made aware of just how much Lupin gets remolded into a Miyazaki character. The villain is stock Miyazaki, Fujiko looks nothing like herself and behaves like Nausicaa, Zenigata gets this weird facelift and becomes a moron and Lupin is this sort of weird running around in his underwear eating noodles goofball. Like it all has this slightly off feel to it, it isn't bad in itself but i can't lose the feeling that this isn't an episode of the red jacket series as much as it is a Miyazaki project in a Lupin suit. Dunno maybe it's just me but i couldn't get fully into it due to this
There’s also the fact that the episode tries to cram so much into a 20 minute episode that and Fujiko virtually killing the badguy’s plan singlehandedly making Lupin and Jigen’s roles superfluous.
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This might have to be it. I don't have the energy to go check the actual season and/or denomination, so to put it simply: I've watched all that was broadcast in Italy up until… 2009-ish? So up to Part III. And I haven't revisited it since. But I have this memory of Zenigata being the most incompetent guy around, even goofier than Lupin under Fujiko's spells.
Could also be that the Italian dub takes some liberties with the translation? But i mean Zenigata has many dumb aspects, he is loud, brash, single minded, uncultured and not a deep thinker. But he isn't slow on the uptake and is always sharp when it comes to his case work, where as in the albatross ep he goes full "duh no bomb big dis small" dumb
I was wondering why I actually liked Fujiko in that one.
Yeah i mean i can see the appeal. But it is weird to have Fujiko sit in a chair like a tomboy making faces at Lupin. Guess Miyazaki isn't a fan of the silk hiding steel femme fatale angle
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Wasn't Albatross the one where Fujiko wasn't wearing pants basically the entire special?
Limits the movement options a little bit.
Cagliostro is the most telling, because that Fujiko bears almost no resemblance at all to normal Fujiko. Even on the assumption that "Cagliostro is years later after the cast has matured" she was not herself in that film. And blonde! Because Clarise needed to have brown hair.
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Wasn't Albatross the one where Fujiko wasn't wearing pants basically the entire special?
Panties .
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Panties .
Nope.
There's a reason her legs were always crossed and the chair blocked a lot of shots.
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Discotek announced today, they will be releasing Lupin Part 5 on blu ray in 2 sets.
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Nope.
I remember the old Lupin site that featured Fujiko specifically from this episode in a running pose this episode definitely answered a lot of questions…..
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Could also be that the Italian dub takes some liberties with the translation?
Nah, the Italian version is considered the best, second only to the original. There's a reason why Japan organizes so many Lupin events in Italy.
But i mean Zenigata has many dumb aspects, he is loud, brash, single minded, uncultured and not a deep thinker. But he isn't slow on the uptake and is always sharp when it comes to his case work, where as in the albatross ep he goes full "duh no bomb big dis small" dumb
Fair enough, that does sound like a lower type of dumb.
As a kid, though, I never took Zenigata seriously. I considered him on par with the inspector from Pink Panther: a comic relief on the side of the law, who could do nothing except speed things up for the heroes, but never representing a true competent opponent.
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Wasn't Albatross the one where Fujiko wasn't wearing pants basically the entire special?
Limits the movement options a little bit.
Yep bucknaked the whole episode and not once did she attempt to use her sex appeal. It's not even an alternate take, it's a ground up revision.
Nah, the Italian version is considered the best, second only to the original. There's a reason why Japan organizes so many Lupin events in Italy.
While i can not imagine a dub being more entertaining then the American gag dub, i am curious about the Italian dub. It certainly seems beloved, and i generally find it fun to watch shows in other languages. Plus it is super easy to find the Italian stuff on amazon.
Fair enough, that does sound like a lower type of dumb.
As a kid, though, I never took Zenigata seriously. I considered him on par with the inspector from Pink Panther: a comic relief on the side of the law, who could do nothing except speed things up for the heroes, but never representing a true competent opponent.
There sure seem to be a fair number of directors who felt like you did. But for my money Zenigata was always the man closest to ever catching Lupin
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Discotek announced today, they will be releasing Lupin Part 5 on blu ray in 2 sets.
I'm definitely getting this
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Finally tracked down a copy of Another Page.
Not bad, not great. Plot was pretty typical Lupin stuff, nothng super memorable. Good showing for Zenigata in terms of competence, and Jigen taking out a tank was pretty good.
It was a perfectly serviceable but unremarkable outing. I was really thown off by the female guest of the week being named Lisa since that's my wife's name, but what can ya do? The character designs were really off too, Lupin's gap toothed smile was on display almost constantly and that's fine for a reaction shot but is weird when its just around the whole time. And all the faces were kind of weird. It's almost like they were drawn in the Detective COnan style… except it wasn't one of the crossovers.
Now I only have one more tv special to go, the most recent one, Prison of the Past, and then I'll have seen all the tv specials!
Then the most recent couple theatrical movies and I think that will be everything. Weird.
I'll probably go back and revisit some of the movies I rated highly once upon a time but haven't watched again since the VHS days. I particularly want to rewatch Napoleon's Dictionary because I remember that one strongly broke from formula and had really solid Lupin/Pops stuff.
Probably revisit the second half of Red Jack series some time, the stuff that didn't air endlessly on cartoon network.
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Another page is the one with marco polos macguffin right? I think that one and prison of the past are both in the same middling zone, not good, but nothing too bad either. Mostly just a lot of lost opportunity if you ask me.
Just watched elusivness of the fog and it was quite bad. Or maybe it's okay but i just really hate time travel stories in general and Mamo in particular. And even if you account for that the movie plays out like two seperate stories, one period piece about rivaling clans and the other about Mamo randomly showing up to taunt people and talk about his future cheating girlfriend. Tis a weird combo and i can't make it work. But strangely enough the intro segment where Jigen drives a boat on land was pretty great, really suckered me into getting my hopes up. Oh yeah and they literally lock Zenigata up in a dungeon for like 80% of the movie with close to no interaction with anyone, just such a waste of a good loudmouth
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Yeah another Page was the Marco Polo one. It also had a lengthy Goemon plot that was completely separate from the rest of the film till they randomly tied together. It wasn't bad, so I don't put it in the bad pile, but it also didn't entertain me at all, I was bored. I won't remember this one and that's maybe worse.
At least Herr Maphrodite I remember the awful pun of a villain.
And yeah, Elusiveness of the Fog was pretty weak. You do time travel and you DON'T hook the cast up with their eerily identical ancestors? What's the point?
Tracked down Prison of the Past, gonna watch that tonight. That'll be the last of the tv movies for me after many many years. Still a handful of theatricals to go but I'm not looking forward to those since I'm really not a fan of the style of that production group..
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And yeah, Elusiveness of the Fog was pretty weak. You do time travel and you DON'T hook the cast up with their eerily identical ancestors? What's the point?
Remaking an episode where originally the villain goes from wanting to erase Lupin's lineage for revenge for his descendants destroying his clan to wanting revenge on Lupin cause his future descendant stole his girlfriend.
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Random question, but how often is Lupin seen smoking? I know Jigen is constantly lighting up, but I don't have a long list of memories of Lupin smoking. I know he does occasionally, but it doesn't seem like a lot, compared to Jigen. I would guess maybe it's more common in the earlier works.
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Manga Lupin smoked all the time, and he had a habit in the older shows. Heck he is still shown smoking from time to time, he smoked as recently as the Italian job. But changing attitudes makes it less "cool" to show people smoking and so they don't put it front and center anymore. Well except for Jigen but removing the crumpled up ciggy would be like removing his hat, it'd take too big a part of his visual identity
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Manga Lupin smoked all the time, and he had a habit in the older shows. Heck he is still shown smoking from time to time, he smoked as recently as the Italian job. But changing attitudes makes it less "cool" to show people smoking and so they don't put it front and center anymore. Well except for Jigen but removing the crumpled up ciggy would be like removing his hat, it'd take too big a part of his visual identity
Yeah, that's what I figured.
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Some Discotek Lupin news, Lupin the 3rd: Mystery of Mamo and Lupin the 3rd Vs. Detective Conan: The Movie are getting blu ray releases.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I forgot to mention that the blu ray release of Lupin the 3rd vs. Detective Conan: The Movie will have an english dub with the Lupin, Part 4/Part 5 cast and the new dub cast from the recent Detective Conan movies releases.
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Half hooray half boo hiss #NotmyRichardbuttotallymyArsene
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Pluto tv added some of the Lupin tv series and movies for free to stream. I have to say, it nice to see more Lupin stuff available for streaming, since I haven't seen the Fujiko series or any of these movies.
Lupin, Part 1
Lupin, Part 3
Lupin, Part 4
Lupin, Part 5 (including the 50th anniversary ova)
Lupin the 3rd: The Woman Called Fujiko Mine
Lupin the 3rd: From Siberia with Love
Lupin the 3rd: Voyage to Danger
Lupin the 3rd: The Hemingway Papers
Lupin the 3rd: Bye Bye, Lady Liberty
Lupin the 3rd: Napoleon's Dictionary -
Hmmm might have to check this out.
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I suppose they were aiming for an ugliest animation best of collection.
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I suppose they were aiming for an ugliest animation best of collection.
Don’t see part 2 in that collection or Secret Of Mamo.
Jokes aside are we talking bad animation or bad art?
Cause part 1 is fine, part 3 initially is fine but eventually they lean into the weird and yes some of the early 90's stuff while not as iffy looking as the 80's and some of the 70's stuff is…..yeah.
I also don't know for certain but at the very least Part 1 is in japanese don't know about the other stuff though I'd assume part 3 would be in japanese too
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Parts 1 and 3 were never dubbed, (and the second half of part 2) so they don't have much choice in the matter there.
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I’m watching Napoleon’s Dictionary which is also in Japanese so it’s safe to say everything here is potentially Japanese only.